Our Girls Play Hockey - The Road to Pro Hockey with PWHLer Hayley Scamurra

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 0:51]: Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of our newest series, our girls play hockey. I'm Lee Elias, and I'm joined by Mike Benelli and Sherry Hudspet. So you want to play pro hockey? That's the topic for today, which is something I'm sure you and your kids will definitely want to hear about. And funny enough, our expert panelist is someone who plays pro hockey. Hailey Skimora of the Ottawa charge joins us today. Her road to the pros took her through a four year career at Northeastern University, where she received multiple honors as a defenseman and as an all academic team member, also in the rookie class of that year. She is also a us national team athlete and has represented the country in the Olympics and world championships multiple times throughout her time in the game. Hailey, I love introductions like that. Welcome to our girls play hockey. 

Hayley Scamurra [0:52 - 0:54]: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Hi, everyone. 

Sheri Hudspeth [0:55 - 1:29]: Hey. Good morning, Hailey. Thank you for being here. I want to talk a little bit about your pro hockey experience. And firstly, starting with the inaugural draft, when you were drafted to Ottawa, I'm here in Vegas. I had the fortunate opportunity to go to the draft this year, and one of the things that stood out to me the most was seeing the kids that were about to get drafted in the concourse in their suits and everything, like, just nervous energy, wondering where they're gonna go, the whole vibe. Can you talk about your draft experience in and what it's like going to that event, any expectations you had, and just explain what it's like to be part of the inaugural PWHL draft? 

Hayley Scamurra [1:30 - 2:20]: I mean, it was just incredible. They did such a good job making it very professional, and. But it was nerve wracking. I don't think I expected to be so nervous and. Cause it was truly, like, I had no idea where I was gonna end up, and this is gonna decide where I'm living for the next, you know, however many years. So it was definitely a little nerve wracking. Like, the night before, I could hardly sleep. Truly did not know where I'd end up. I kind of had, like, probably, like, two I figured were the most interested in me, but I, you know, you never know. And I just felt like it took forever. And so I'm sitting with my family just so antsy to, like, figure out where I'm gonna go. And once Ottawa finally called my name, it was just, like, a huge sigh of, like, relief and excitement, and, yeah, I was just incredibly grateful and excited to end up there, you know, Haley. 

Lee MJ Elias [2:20 - 2:57]: What'S interesting about what you just said, and I never put this together with a draft before in my life. But you're right. It's like someone has control over where you're going to go. And I just realized my wife was in the military, and every three years, you had no control. They'd ask you, where do you want to go? Right? And I'm sure people ask you that, but they just tell you, yeah, you're going to England. You're going to northwest Florida, you're going to Guam. You just. You have no control. So I think we just realized is that getting drafted is a lot like getting a military duty station. You have no control. You gotta make the best of it and you gotta go live there. So I just put that together in my head. I wanted to make that comment. 

Hayley Scamurra [2:59 - 3:08]: Yeah, it's. It is a pretty crazy, like, feeling and a realization where you're like, okay, they're gonna decide where I live. Here we go. Let's see where it is. 

Lee MJ Elias [3:08 - 3:09]: You did it. 

Sheri Hudspeth [3:09 - 3:17]: Well, after they called your name, like, can you explain the process a little bit? I know in the NHL they take him, get jerseys, media photos, all that stuff. What happened after they actually called your name? 

Hayley Scamurra [3:18 - 4:03]: Yeah, so they called my name, and then they took you into, like, the. There was, like, a back room where they were doing media stuff. So there wasn't jerseys yet. I don't know if those had even been released at that point because everything happened so fast once the league got, like, announced and they had to put all this together. So we went to the back room and did, like, a lot of media stuff for social media. And then, like, I got to meet some of the girls that I also got drafted with, which was really fun. So we were like, where did you get drafted? Like, I was forgetting who got drafted to where. Like, one of my good friends, Jincy, was drafted there, and I literally forgot because she was drafted, like, two routes ahead of me. And I got. And I got interviewed about it and I literally blanked out. Like, who else was drafted? Because they were like, who are you excited? And I'm like, who else was there? I have no idea. Like, everything was a blur. Well, it was really cool. 

Lee MJ Elias [4:04 - 4:23]: First draft ever of its type. I mean, I'd love for you to comment on that, too, because, you know, when we look at the NHL draft, yeah, it's every year, but this has never happened before, I'll say, for this league. Right? So. So, yeah, what is. What was that like? Because you're right. Everyone is drafted for the first time ever at this event. If you know, it's never happened before. 

Hayley Scamurra [4:24 - 5:16]: Yeah, I can kind of go into with, like, the leagues that we had prior. So what happened for that draft? Washington. Luckily, there was a team in Buffalo, so I'm from Buffalo, New York originally, and I literally was like, hey, I'm gonna live in Buffalo, so you should pick me, basically. And I found out on Twitter that I got picked to Buffalo. And so it wasn't anything crazy because they knew I wanted to be there. They knew I was gonna be living there, and it was just out of convenience because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to afford to live anywhere else and play anywhere else. So then that was nicer in a sense that I got to decide where I wanted to live. But I think for it to be truly professional, it was really cool to have, like, an actual draft where, you know, they're picking you based on what they want for their team to look like and not based on where you decide kind of thing. 

Mike Bonelli [5:17 - 6:22]: Yeah, I'm thinking about it just when we go over these questions, and it's almost like, you know, my, so my question is, you know, the PWHL is only, and I'm saying it only a 16 league. So I'm thinking, like, a couple of years ago, there was no league, right? So the fact that it's only a 16 league, but it's unbelievable. It's a 16 league, and I think it's just. But with that comes this other pressure, right? It comes on how tight it is to be on one of these teams. And here we are over the last 20 years, growing the female game, growing the women's sport, getting more. I mean, I just saw an article the other day, there's more girls playing hockey than ever. Like, it's just now it's like, it's just, it's the fastest growing segment of the hockey world. And just talk a little bit about, you know, how tight that is at your level now and then what that competition and talent level is like. I mean, obviously you played very high level of college hockey. You played international hockey. But just talk about that the six teams, now you get selected. Just talk about a little bit how that competition feels now that you're in that mix. 

Hayley Scamurra [6:23 - 7:12]: Yeah. I mean, even with our season last year, it went down to the last, like four games, who was going to make the playoffs? Like, there was huge jumps. That happened because all the teams were so similar and so talented and so great. It just was down to the wire for who made the playoffs. So we barely missed it. And I think this year it's going to be even stronger. There's so many girls out of college and then, especially with the COVID year and all that, kind of like backing up talent wise, it's just going to keep getting more and more tight here with all the teams. I think eventually we are going to have to expand because there's so many girls who could make a pro team that maybe aren't because there's only limited spots and it fills up pretty quick. So definitely something we'll have to figure out in the future, but not a bad problem to have in terms of a talented league. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:12 - 8:19]: You know, one more kind of draft question before I dive into the day in the life of a pro athlete. The inaugural draft is one thing because you have a lot of players that kind of. They're pros already in a lot of, a lot of ways. Right. I'm thinking about the current state of women's sport, which is growing at the best rate ever, and it's so exciting. But now when you have a draft, you have hungry college players looking to jump in the league. And, you know, one of the things about drafts that we don't talk about enough, I think in just, just sports in general, is every new player could potentially, you know, move a veteran player out. If you're not careful, these kids want to make the lineup. So I'm interested if there's been any chatter about that or what is the mentality of, okay, now we're going to have a draft class of young women who have just played in college and they're ready to play pro, which really, that's never happened before. Right. And it's going to happen continuously. I've never even asked a question like that. I've never had any perspective on, like, on that at all. So I'd love your thoughts on that. 

Sheri Hudspeth [8:20 - 8:21]: It's a good point. 

Hayley Scamurra [8:21 - 8:49]: It's definitely an interesting aspect. I think you kind of see it, like, on the national team level as well. There's like, all these college girls who are coming up who are talented and they want to make that team, and I think. But it's also important to have the veteran presence on your team for that experience factor because I think it is a jump right like this. The pro game is going to be. It's a lot more physical. Like, I remember our first few weeks into the season, it took a toll on the body. Like, you felt it. I was like, okay, this is different. 

Lee MJ Elias [8:49 - 8:53]: Like, I think we felt more physical player, you know? 

Hayley Scamurra [8:53 - 9:17]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can see it pretty clearly and we, we all love it and it's amazing. But it's definitely very different than the college game and very different than the international play. So I think those kind of factor in as well. And I love to see the college girls come in and be excited because I think it makes our league stronger and, you know, more fans watching, more visibility. I think it can only help. 

Lee MJ Elias [9:17 - 10:20]: Yeah. And you know what's really cool about it, too, Hillian. And this is where you're, you're, you know, a trailblazer in so many ways, as are all the women in the game. You know, my eight year old daughter's watching this, like, well, this is just normal for her now, right in, I will say, twelve to 14 years, this could be her. Like, that's just the way she's gonna be thinking the rest of her life. I always like to bring that up because it's important for everybody listening to understand that those perspectives don't exist until they exist. We're so used to seeing things that, oh, the NHL draft, I see that every year. So we all know it's possible. If you're an eight year old girl, the PWHL draft is a result, outcome. It's a goal. You can do that along with college and the national team and just playing hockey in general. I'm not saying everyone who plays has to make a pro hockey team, but I am saying that that dream is alive and it's. And it's being fueled. So let me transition to my next question here. You are a pro. You're pro athlete. You've been a pro athlete for a while. Talk to me about the day in the life of a pro athlete. You can do in season and out of season if you want. 

Hayley Scamurra [10:21 - 11:32]: Yeah. So, I mean, out of season, I typically, like, the first focus is honestly resting. Like, after the season, literally allowing my body and my mind to rest. I think I haven't really done that in the past, and it's something I've been focusing on as I've gotten older and realize how important that time is. So I kind of start off with that so that when I do start my off season training, I'm, like, ready to go. It's more so, like, I'm excited to get back. I don't want to, like, force myself to be on the ice or be in the gym. Like, I want to go back when I'm excited to go back. So that's been huge for me. I typically will start my off season with, like, heavy, heavier, and, like, workouts and not maybe hit the ice yet and then once it is time to hit the ice, I kind of, like, slowly bring that in. And again, still focusing a lot off ice. And then, like, now I would say I'm in full kind of swing with hockey and off ice training. So I kind of work out like four times a week, five times a week, and then skate four to five times a week as well. And then once the season starts, that was the cool part, was like actually being on a pro team. So for so long, I've been training by myself and then just going to events. 

Lee MJ Elias [11:32 - 11:33]: Right. 

Hayley Scamurra [11:33 - 12:13]: So now we actually have team practices, team workouts, and a little bit more structure. And also training with your friends is nice. Like, I was training by myself here in Maryland with a boys team. That's not my team, you know. So we would typically practice pretty much every single day and have video and then do, like, a team workout after our practices. So that was like our in season kind of grind. And then once games started, we definitely had less. You have less team practices than you realize. I would say, like, once, like, games start going. Cause you need rest days as well. So I think those kind of got shorter as the season went on. And same with the workouts, too. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:14 - 12:40]: I think people forget when you get to a pro level, and this is what differs from youth hockey, again, we take this for granted. I think, at the youth hockey level, at the youth hockey level, practice is very, very important. I mean, you should be practicing more than you play. At the pro level, the games are the product. Like, that's, that's what you've trained for. Right? So the games are priority, literally priority over practice development. And if I'm not mistaken, the practice is for, you know, small changes. 

Mike Bonelli [12:41 - 12:41]: It's. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:41 - 12:57]: It's for finding the little nicks and necks of the game to get better. It's, it's. It's always development. But can you talk about the pro practice a little bit and how it differs from, you know, a u twelve practice where we're trying to learn a certain aspect of the game? You have to know that at the pro level now, it's about small adjustments. 

Hayley Scamurra [12:58 - 13:24]: Yeah, I think, you know, beginning of the season, definitely more of, like a grind. You're like, doing more battles up and down the ice, things like that. And then as the season kind of goes on, it's more. So, like you said, it's like fixing those little things in the game that maybe we're messing up, like, you know, our four check or our breakouts or power plays, pks. It's kind of more specialized based on what we need during the games and what we need to be better at, basically. So. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:24 - 13:38]: So I. One more, sherry, I'll shut up, I promise. I'm excited in this line of questions, but one of the things I like to tell the younger players, and I would love your perspective on this, is that at the pro level, there is an expectation of certain things, right. 

Mike Bonelli [13:39 - 13:39]: It's. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:39 - 14:22]: There's an expectation of talent, of professionalism. There's an expectation of being able to retain information. So for the younger players, listening, and I'm talking to that, you know, ten to 14 year old, like, level right now, when your mind starts to wander when the coach is talking, that is unacceptable at a pro level. You won't even see that at a pro level. Right. Can you talk about the standard of. And we'll just say practice. Right. Of what you need to be doing mentally, physically, from a talent standpoint, what are the standards and expectations of you as a pro athlete at practice? Keeping in mind that youth athletes, you can do this now. You don't have to wait till later on. Right. These skills are built throughout the game. 

Hayley Scamurra [14:23 - 15:12]: Yeah. I mean, I think being coachable is a huge advantage. As I've gotten older, that's been, like, something I've always harped on, is I'm always, like, a very coachable player. Like, a coach can come to me with any sort of, like, critique or criticism, and I'm taking it in. I take what I need to take out of it. It, and I place it into my game in terms of, like, the practice itself. Like, at our pro level, we're huge on communication, and that's something she doesn't like to have to repeat herself for us to continue to do. So. Like, in every single drill, you need to communicate, you need to call for pucks. We need to have tape to tape passes. That's, like baseline standard. Like, if that's off at all, we're immediately, like, yelled at and we need to fix it kind of thing. And that's just the standard we've kind of set with our team. 

Sheri Hudspeth [15:12 - 15:22]: Hailey, you played in the NWHL, the PHF, PwhpA, and now the PwHl. In your opinion, what makes the PWHL different than the other leagues that have existed before? 

Hayley Scamurra [15:25 - 15:59]: I think it's. I think it's just like, the foundation it's based on is just so much stronger, and we get all the resources that a pro team should have. So that's like, meals, equipment, travel, taken care of all these different things. That wasn't necessarily a standard in the other leagues is a baseline standard here and then some we get like, all the extra amenities as well. So I think that's been the biggest difference I've noticed is just how professional it is at every single level. 

Sheri Hudspeth [15:59 - 16:06]: And you credit that, like, to funding or. What's the reasoning for that? Like, do you guys have better funding than I think HF had or. 

Hayley Scamurra [16:07 - 16:32]: I think it's funding and I think it's who they've placed in certain positions for. Like the. We have GM's, we have, you know, qualified coaches, like, just different, like, throughout the levels, equipment managers and, you know, before we would have, like, random college kids being our equipment manager in the other league. So just little things like that, that just kind of make that a little extra, more professional. 

Mike Bonelli [16:33 - 18:00]: Yeah, I mean, I've seen it. I mean, I was coaching with the whale when they were in Danbury with Colt Noor and Laura Brennan, who shout out to her, she's got the assistant coaching job with Yale University. So that's great to see. Nice, you know, women staying in the women's game. I think it's great. But one of the things I noticed, you know, which is very, which is so clear because I was local enough to watch them go from one rink to another to another and, you know, really just be second fiddle, you know, didn't get the primary locker room, didn't get any locker room, didn't get the prime ice time. I mean, watching, you know, players go from work to try to get to practice at 10:00 get in their car and drive back to Boston or to, you know, a different part of New York or different part of Connecticut, you really can see the difference. And now I'm in Chelsea Pierce with the New York team, and to see the facilities they have, I mean, it's unbelievable. You walk in, they have the train, the locker room, their equipment room is better than, I think, most college programs I've seen. So, you know, all that aspect, I think, must, you know, create such a great atmosphere for a player. But I think for somebody like you, coming from the top levels of NCAA hockey, I mean, do you see, you know, how has that affected you think, and how does it affect the ability for the all of you to play pro hockey coming out of college hockey? And because we haven't, this is the first time we're seeing where, like, there's a minor league for pro hockey. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:00 - 18:00]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [18:00 - 18:17]: For. For college hockey and then really. Yeah, that's the same conversation. I mean, do you see a place where a high school athlete can jump to the pro level, or do you think that now the NCAA is really the breeding ground, you know, for pro hockey players of the future? 

Hayley Scamurra [18:19 - 19:14]: I think you definitely would have to do NCAA before pro. I think it would be a pretty big jump for high school girls to try to go pro. I'd be pretty shocked if they could, to be honest, especially with how much more physical it is. And then in terms of, like, going from college to pro, like, I remember for me, at least my first year, when I went pro after college, it was definitely an adjustment. Like, girls were like, be ready. Like, you don't get as much support as you did in college. Like, you're not getting as much ice time as you did in college. Like, everything, it kind of went. It went down a little bit right in that term. And so to see now where we're at, where it is, like, it's a jump up. You're a professional player, and we're treated as such. It's really nice to see. I'm excited to see how our college girls feel about that coming in this year, our new rookies and stuff. So it's cool to see that they get to go right to pro and they don't have to go through all the hoops that we had to go through after college. 

Mike Bonelli [19:14 - 19:16]: Yeah. And I think that support structure is there. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:16 - 19:16]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [19:16 - 20:26]: So you almost get to be like, if you're in a division one college hockey program in the NCAA now, and you get to be in that atmosphere of, you know, quality bus trips, quality facilities, quality equipment, staff, all of that kind of stuff. Like you're saying it's not. No longer is it a, oh, geez, I gotta play pro. Like, this is worth. This is like men's league, you know, as opposed to, hey, wow, we're really. It's. It's a. It's a pipeline for players now to be not, not only ready physically, like you said. I mean, have a 17 year old girl try to play with women after playing of NCAA. And I guess, yeah, let me ask you. So on that question, do you see a place where in the next short time that women are leaving their NCAA program early to go play pro, or do you think that that's still. Is that still a, you know, a real carrot for them to get their, you know, graduate, get their education and still be able to play at the pro level, even finishing their four years? Because we don't see it in other sports. Right. We see basketball. It's one and done. You know, even now in hockey, hockey's won maybe two years and you'll see the best players are leaving. So, I mean, where do you see that timeframe for the NCAA now? 

Hayley Scamurra [20:28 - 21:02]: That's such a good question. I think. I don't know if I see that happening anytime soon. It would be really cool in the future if that is a possibility. I think once, like, salaries get higher and higher, I think I could see that being a viable option. But I think for the time being, they're not quite high enough for. I don't think for a girl to leave college before she graduates to then play pro. I think it'd be more beneficial to finish college out and then come to the pros. But in the future, I mean, that would be incredible if that could happen, for sure. 

Lee MJ Elias [21:03 - 21:29]: You know, continuing on that line of questioning prior to these pro leagues coming to fruition, it's the national teams that were really the next level beyond college, whether it's, you know, Team USA or Hockey Canada. You've been involved with Team USA since 2008. I believe that's when you were invited to your first camp as a young woman. So you've been involved with him 2018? I meant, like, just the very first campus. It really. 2018 was the very first one. 

Hayley Scamurra [21:29 - 21:38]: Well. Well, first. Well, I guess if you're counting like. Like U 15 or something, I should have said. 

Lee MJ Elias [21:38 - 21:51]: I didn't mean. How about I say this? You've been on Team USA's radar since. Since 2008. You've been on the radar for a while. That's fair. Yeah. I was going well beyond national teams here. 

Hayley Scamurra [21:51 - 21:52]: That's okay. I'll just. 

Lee MJ Elias [21:53 - 22:45]: No, no worries. But, you know, that program was part of development. That program was. It still is in a lot of ways, the Mecca. Right. Playing for Team USA or Canada or any of the nations is really the top tier of hockey in the world. So how has that program helped to prepare you for the pros? Right. As you said before, that in those programs, it's touch and go. Like, there's times you're together a lot, then there's times you're not, then you're training on your own. I wonder how the Team USA Hockey Canada and the pro leagues are now going to have to kind of work together a little bit, which has never had to happen before. We had Katie million on not too long ago, and she was talking about that creates not a new challenge, but just a new element now of the Olympics and the world championships now have a little bit of a different meaning when you have to deal with professional teams and professional players. So how has that program developed you and how do you see that playing out in the future? 

Mike Bonelli [22:45 - 22:46]: Future? 

Hayley Scamurra [22:47 - 24:05]: I mean, I think it's. It's been huge for my development. It's definitely helped me in terms of, like, the speed of the game. It's so fast at the international level. Like, that difference is pretty huge. And just like, the hockey iq of it as well has helped me a ton, and it's made me a smarter player at every level I've gone to while being on the national team. And then in terms of, like, changing the program, it is kind of crazy to think about, like, our most recent August camp was different for all the pro girls because, like a lot of girls, we had just finished our season, so they didn't want us peaking in August because we don't start till November, whereas the college girls are starting in late September, early October. So it's already changing a little bit. And at a certain point, you know, eventually it'll be similar to the NHL where, like, if their season's over, they'll play for their national team, and if it's not, you know, they can choose not to. It's just really crazy to think about it changing at that point. I think it's going to take a while for that to happen, obviously, but it's exciting that we don't have. It's like, it's not just national team or bust. There's other things you can do, and it also just puts a little bit less pressure on that as well, which is nice. So it's an exciting time for sure, but definitely changes the landscape for the national teams. 

Sheri Hudspeth [24:06 - 24:26]: Just want to circle back a little bit to your experience here in the PWHL. I'm a huge WNBA fan, big fan of the aces. And here for the WNBA, this is the first year that they're allowed to charter flights. Before that, they weren't allowed to charter flights. Do you guys charter flights when you play in the PWHL? What's your travel like? Is it bus? 

Hayley Scamurra [24:26 - 25:05]: Is it so I believe it's. If it's a. If it's more than a five hour drive, you get to fly. I believe the only charters that have happened were there was a few exceptions with Minnesota because I think we actually got to charter home from Minnesota one time with Minnesota. So we were on the same plane together. And I believe Minnesota did charter maybe during playoffs because their travel day is so much further than everyone else's travel day. But other than that, it was just commercial flights, and there's no rules against. 

Sheri Hudspeth [25:05 - 25:11]: It or anything like the WNBA had rules against it. And so that's pretty cool to hear. And. Yeah, I think. 

Hayley Scamurra [25:12 - 25:13]: Oh, go ahead. 

Sheri Hudspeth [25:13 - 25:14]: No, no, you go ahead. 

Hayley Scamurra [25:14 - 25:43]: I was just gonna say what's great with our league coming in when it has, we're able to learn from other leagues and see, like, what we want to it, like, have put in place for our league versus their leagues and, like, what they've learned, too. So we've learned from stuff they've had to deal with so that we don't have to maybe deal with those. Right. So it's been hugely helpful to have those other leagues succeed the way they have, and we've learned from them and have tried to put that in place at the start. 

Sheri Hudspeth [25:44 - 25:56]: And then your equipment, how's that work? Like, I know in college, like, some schools have a stick and skate day where you can try out and wear whatever brand you want. Some athletes may have deals with Bauer or CCM. How does the equipment work for the teams? 

Hayley Scamurra [25:57 - 26:18]: Yeah, so I think so. Players either will have deals, so then they work with that equipment company. But I believe they also come into our teams at different days where girls are able to, like, kind of try out and see which ones they like more and, and go from there. So it's kind of like a case by case basis. 

Lee MJ Elias [26:19 - 28:00]: Sure. If I can jump in here, too, you know, again, just keeping in mind the topic today of. So you want to play pro hockey? We're talking about a lot of the great benefits that are happening now. But the truth is this, if you're at the top, top level, it can be very nice. But if you're playing semi pro hockey or playing in a pro league, a private professional league, some of the amenities are not always the same. I think we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about some of that grind. I mean, I can tell stories of working in pro hockey in Europe and having to be in what they call people movers, which is basically a big van, and you're talking gigantic people in a very small space driving for 8910 hours at a time. That is a reality of pro sports in some, some places. In fact, I remember lobbying the GM, I'm sorry, the owners of that team, of like, if you get us a bus, we will play better. And the attitude was, well, they should have the mental ability to. It was like we had explained and like, listen, I don't disagree with you about, like, mental fortitude, but when you're six five and you're crunched up in the fetal position for 10 hours, you're gonna have a bad game. Doesn't matter how mentally strong you are, but that is a reality. These really long bus rides, sometimes you got to pay for your own stuff. You hear about it at the Olympics all the time. Not getting great food before a game, which we know is massively impactful, could impact your sleep. So can you talk a little bit about. I don't know how much experience you have with that personally, but the glitz and glamour of pro, it is a dream. I don't want anyone not to have that dream across the board. But there is another side to it you have to be prepared for if you're willing to take that journey. 

Hayley Scamurra [28:01 - 28:28]: Yeah, definitely. I don't. Yeah, I don't have personal experience with it, but I mean, there was definitely the personal experience of the differences now being pro versus in the, you know, in the past, little things like having to deal with your equipment when you're traveling. Like, so now our equipment managers, they're in charge of that. We don't have to pick up our bags from the carousel. We don't have to like, carry them into the locker room. We don't have to undo our bags and put our equipment away and things like that. No. 

Mike Bonelli [28:28 - 28:36]: You're just like my kid then. You're just like my kid. Sorry. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:37 - 28:38]: Yes, you did. 

Mike Bonelli [28:40 - 30:33]: Haley, the funny thing is when you say this, so think about this, that the more popular the PWHL gets and the more successful it gets, the more opportunity for other pro leagues to prop up under that the ahls of the world and the southern professional leagues of the world. And, and all of a sudden, the hockey is going to get worse, like the accommodations and the opportunity. So it's a funny thing, like right now you're in a really sweet spot. Like, hey, I'm playing pro hockey, but I'm not, but I'm not. But I'm playing pro, I'm really playing pro hockey. I'm not playing pro hockey trying to get to pro hockey. And I think that's what Lee's point, right, is that, you know, so, you know, women are going to have to make these choices. Like, wow, I'm not going to play for Ottawa. It's going to be tough. But do I go to Sweden and play? Like, do I take a contract in Europe? Do I, do I get back and go on a bus, you know, for 7 hours to go to a game? And I think that is going to be a interesting from my point of view because I don't have to be on the bus anymore for 8 hours and drive it and take the equipment out and make sure we have water bottles and then make it. So I think once that starts to happen, it's going to be interesting to see how women make the choice to play pro hockey and grind it and fight it and really battle to get to the highest level of pro hockey like all these men have been doing, right? You ask anybody in the AHL, they're like, no, no, I want to play in the NHL. Like, that's why I'm here. And it's going to be. It's going to be really interesting to see. I think even going back to your point about, well, what, what's going to happen when a full scholarship girl is approached and say, hey, you could make, you could make, you know, another 50 grand a year if you leave college early, or it's going to be an interesting, I don't know, juggling match. I think as, as you get more successful in. With the sport, Lee's daughter has to worry about that. Not so much the current college players. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:33 - 31:26]: Well, yeah, like, like most women that I know, they're tough because they have to deal with this every day, Mike. And in a position where I think we take that for granted sometimes, I do want to ask this, too. In the preparation to become a pro or the journey, I should say, of becoming a pro. Like, talent's a given. I don't like to talk a lot about talent and putting in the work and having to get the skills. We all know that if you don't put the work in it, it doesn't matter at that point. You brought up communication before you brought up mental toughness a bit. I would love to get your thoughts on the mental toughness side and how we need to develop that a bit more in our youth. Athletes parents play a role in that, coaches play a role in that, but it's something that is coming to the forefront right now. But to be a pro athlete, you have to be mentally strong. Really strong. Can you talk a little bit about how young kids and, you know, aspiring hockey players can develop those skills? 

Hayley Scamurra [31:27 - 31:39]: Definitely. I think it's something I'm super passionate about now because I, growing up, I wish I did have that, like, mental side to work on because I don't think I actually focused on that until college. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:40 - 31:40]: Right. 

Hayley Scamurra [31:40 - 32:50]: So actually, funny enough that you mentioned it, my boyfriend, who's also my trainer, and I, we have the pro athlete experience app, and it's where we want, like, kids to be able to join our community, where we do talk about, like, the mental side of hockey training offseason off ice on ice, like, all these different aspects that, you know, maybe I didn't have access to growing up that I think could really help with the mental side of the game. And, you know, especially for me, I think when I did fix that mental side, it allowed me to, like, elevate my game tenfold, truly, because I really didn't focus on it until college. And I had a lot of stuff, you know, with parent pressure, with pressure I put on myself as a kid, I think that took a toll on me, and it didn't allow me to play to my potential. And, yeah, I saw a sports psychologist in college, and then from there, I just was fascinated with the mental side of the game. And I've even kind of put even more into it now with, like, visualization and all that fun stuff. And I can only imagine if I had started that when I was younger, how much that would have set me forward even now. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:51 - 34:19]: So, yeah, yeah, I'm glad you said that. And, you know, Mike Sherry, I, we talk about this all the time. Everyone is kind of saying how important this is, but we don't have the pillars in place to do it. People go, we gotta learn how to do a breakout. I'm like, well, sure, but, I mean, you got to learn this, too. This is part of the platform, and I think finding those ways to implement team building and mental fitness and, you know, you know, working on it as something of this is a day to day thing you have to do all the time. This is not something you can achieve. I would say you don't achieve mental fitness, right? You. You work at mental fitness. It's just like going to the gym. So I'm glad you said that. And I always encourage programs listening and parents listening. You just heard it from an olympian and a professional player. She wishes she had worked on this earlier. Thank you, by the way, for saying that. You have the opportunity, if you're listening to this, to start doing that. And if you're going, well, I don't know where to start. Go to Google or email us. We have resources. Teamandourkidsplayhockey.com. there's a wealth of information out there of how at any age, you can start working on this. And parents, I have to say this, too, and coaches, I encourage you to do it, too. A lot of adults will say, you know, kids need this. We all need it. We all need it. And guess what, parents? If you start doing it, it's a lot more attractive to your kids. Believe it or not, if you're taking that journey with them. I will get off my soapbox now and sauce the puck over to Sherry. 

Sheri Hudspeth [34:20 - 34:27]: That was great. Lee, what advice, Haley, can you give to young girls that are looking to play pro and aspire to play pro one day? 

Hayley Scamurra [34:28 - 35:27]: Oh, hey. It's so cliche. I always just say, like, to remember to just have fun while you're playing the game and not take yourself too seriously and then not to compare yourself to other people in their journeys. I think that was something that I got caught up in a lot. And again, like I said, in college, I kind of got over that hump where I was stopping comparing myself, because at that point, I wasn't making national teams. I wasn't even making national team campsite in college. And I remember being really discouraged by it. And, you know, he had just told me, like, focus on the team you're on now. Be the best player you can be for the team you were with, and whatever will come will come. And, you know, and that's what happened for me. I didn't make my first national team until I was 24 years old, and that's not really common in the national team space. It's going to get more common now that we have our pro league, but so that's my biggest piece of advice, is just to have fun with the journey, enjoy where you're at, and don't compare yourself to other people. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:28 - 36:29]: I love that advice, and I'll tell you why. And again, it's. I think one of the reasons we made this show is that it is so easy for everyone involved in youth hockey, coaches, parents, and kids to get the FOMo or get lost on where are we going to be? Where are we going to end up? And you just said it. Be where you're at, play where you're at. Focus on the present. And this can be as micro as I look the. At the time we're recording this, the first rankings just came out for youth hockey. I haven't even looked at him. I haven't even looked at him. And I'm getting text. Do you see what I'm like? I don't. I really. And I might take flack for this. I don't care right now because I'm interested in developing our team into a great team, but I gotta focus on what I gotta do at practice today to make them that team. Not to mention, and, Hailey, you can actually prove this right now. Has anyone in the history of your pro career ever asked you about your squirt ranking in the first period? 

Hayley Scamurra [36:31 - 36:32]: No. 

Lee MJ Elias [36:32 - 36:48]: No, it doesn't happen. No one asks about it. Nobody asks, hey, when you were a second year, where did your team end up? Because it's very, very much. I need to know this. Because you don't make the team if they were under twelve. Like, it's. It's. We focus on the wrong things. Right. Um, I do understand. 

Mike Bonelli [36:48 - 36:53]: They weren't even asking Halle what her freshman year stats were for the national team. So, you know, what are you going to do? 

Lee MJ Elias [36:53 - 36:59]: Yeah. At an NCAA division one team in which she won a basic rookie of the year in her division. 

Mike Bonelli [36:59 - 37:00]: Long journey, man. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:00 - 38:53]: It's. It just boggles my mind. And again, I want to say this. I understand why we have rankings. I understand the competitiveness of it. I'm not. I'm not trying to poo poo on rankings. Like, I get it, but I'm poo pooing on the amount of energy we put into these things when it. I'm not gonna go home and tell my kid, hey, guess where? You're right. Like, that's gonna help him better on the ice. Like, you know, it's just gonna create fear, right. Of, like, what we need to do better. Now you're creating a false narrative if you don't win a game, which really is. I mean, I want to win every game, but, like, if you're not focused on the development at practice today, just to round this out, you're missing it. You're missing it. What can you get better at right now? So this is obviously a very passionate topic for me, and I just. It boggles my mind. It boggles my mind. But parents, coaches, we are training the kids to do this. It's not them. All right. When they become adults, it's because we train them to think that way. And this is kind of the thing I want to crack. It's like, that's why I said a minute ago, we have to go through some of this mental fitness training as well. So I think it's great advice. I don't think it's cliche, actually. I don't think that that is cliche enough yet. We need it to become cliche. Another one for me real quick. You talked earlier. I definitely want to pull a thread on this, on just team cohesiveness now that you're together all the time. Really kind of a fascinating thought. I had never heard that as one of the big changes before. So equating this now to girls hockey, right. That's gonna create the need for more, I think skill sets as being a team, being bonded as a team, and not. Not so much just going on your own way, which I. Look, I think the personal journey is important, but what have you learned now in being with the team for months at a time that can help maybe young girls listening or that has changed your perspective on the game as a whole, too? 

Hayley Scamurra [38:54 - 40:11]: It's a good question. God, I haven't really thought about that too much, but it's definitely. We can build so much more of our team culture together, which I think is huge. Whereas, like, when we're with Team USA, it's like an accelerated time frame because you're only with each other for a short period of time. And then with our pro team, we're together all season. And so I think it's just so valuable to have that extra time so that we can build that culture and our expectations of one another and hold each other accountable to those expectations. And we're practicing day in and day out together so we can keep pushing each other and just push ourselves to our limits, honestly. And I think it's at the young level, I feel like it's like the same, though. You're gonna, like. I don't know. Like, I don't know if it changes necessarily the youth side of things more so just something they can aspire to and just know how important it is to have that team cohesiveness and to be able to hold each other accountable at the team level and not, like, get butthurt if you're battling with the player and the other person falls and not, like, apologize or things like that, where you can push each other and know that it's to make each other the best you can be. 

Lee MJ Elias [40:11 - 40:33]: So one final question for me, then we'll wrap this up. Sherry asked a great question about advice for young girls looking to go pro. What advice do you have for the parents and maybe even the coaches of young girls who aspire to go pro? It's a different. It's a little bit of a different mindset when you're an adult, you know, trying to help your young lady get to where she wants to be. 

Hayley Scamurra [40:35 - 41:23]: I think just like, holding that space for your child and making it a safe space when you're, like, in the car on the way home from practices or games and letting them, like, process the game however they need to and then maybe timing when you do give feedback to your child, if you do, I think just kind of and, like, the way you do it is also super important. And you also don't want to really cross that boundary as a parent and a coach. It's a. It's a fine line, and I get that it's tough, and you, you know, you're doing it out of the love of your child and stuff, but the timing and the delivery of your feedback can be crucial. So I think just being mindful of that. 

Lee MJ Elias [41:23 - 41:29]: Yeah. One of our most popular episodes ever is titled the Car Ride Home is not coaching. 

Hayley Scamurra [41:29 - 41:30]: Yes. 

Lee MJ Elias [41:31 - 41:34]: What they want. Does anybody have any other final questions before I close this up? 

Mike Bonelli [41:35 - 42:21]: No. I love it. I think it's so great to hear from an NCAA national team pro player on all those processes. And ultimately, it comes down to the thing we talk to all our kids about, and it's all the same thing. You know, be in the moment, have fun, you know, just be a good person, work hard, and all the other stuff takes care of itself. And I think, you know, whether you're an eight year old listening to this with mom and dad or a 17 year old looking to, you know, keep expanding your playing career, I mean, like, what Haley brings up, there's so many great little nuggets and points that you could put into your journal and say, this is somebody I want to aspire to, mimic and mirror. And I think, how can you go wrong with that? 

Lee MJ Elias [42:22 - 42:24]: Sherry, I'll give you the final word if you want. 

Sheri Hudspeth [42:24 - 42:28]: No, I don't have anything that. This is a great episode. Thank you for being here, Haley. 

Hayley Scamurra [42:28 - 42:30]: Yeah, thanks for having me. This was great. 

Lee MJ Elias [42:30 - 43:56]: No, it was a pleasure, Haley. And again, it's an honor for us to be able to sit here with someone like you who. Who has accomplished not just amazing feats at, as Mike said, the pro, the collegiate, and the international level, but you're a great person, too. And I always like to reiterate that great people make great players. It's usually not something you see where those two things are not congruent with each other. And you're a hallmark of that. So thanks for being here. That is going to do it for this edition of our girls play hockey. Remember all of the episodes? Our girlsplayhockey.com. i'm sorry. All of the episodes are available at our kidsplayhocky.com. we have too many shows here, but you can hit the tab with all the episodes and find all of the arrowgirlsplayhocky.com episodes right there on the website. And also, if you want to text us, if you want to send us a question, a comment, a thought accompanying this episode, there's a link. Tap it, text us right away. It's that simple. Or you can always do it the old school way. It's old school now. Email us, team, at our kidsplayhockey.com with that said, for Sherri Hudspit, for Hayley Skimora and Mike Benelli, I'm Lee Elias. We'll see you on the next episode of our girls play hockey. Take care, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of our kids play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. also, make sure to check out our children's book when hockey stops at when hockeystops.com. it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of our kids play hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.