Philadelphia Flyers President Keith Jones On What It Takes To Be A Winning Team - NHL Wraparound Podcast Exclusive Crossover

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 1:19]: Hello, hockey friends and families around the world. And welcome back to another edition of our kids play Hockey. Today is going to be kind of a special edition episode. I recently had the absolute privilege and opportunity to join my friends over at the NHL Wraparound podcast, which is hosted by Neil Smith, president, GM of the 1994 New York Rangers Stanley cup champion team, and Vic Moran, who's a longtime ESPN veteran. And we had Keith Jones, the president of the Philadelphia Flyers, on and they allowed me, if you can believe this, to interview him for 25 minutes on really the importance of team building, how that applies to the NHL. And I was even able to ask about youth hockey and how that applies there and the character that you need to be someone in professional hockey. So I really, really enjoyed this interview. I want you to make sure that here the entire episode and all of the episodes that you check out the NHL Wraparound podcast. Just search that wherever podcasts are listened to or check them out on YouTube and you can see all the episodes they've done and they've had some unbelievably big names on there, from NHL hall of Famers to executives to GM's. If you're a fan of the NHL, this is a show you're going to. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:19 - 1:20]: Want to listen to. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:20 - 1:28]: But here it is, my segment with the two men, Neil Smith, Vic Morin, and the president of the Philadelphia Flyers, Keith Jones. Enjoy. 

Vic Morren [1:30 - 2:03]: And welcome back to NHL wraparound. Vic Morin, along with Neil Smith and our special guest, the president of hockey operations for the Philadelphia Flyers, Keith Jones. And now we are pleased to also welcome in award winning, author, award winning podcast host in 2023 and 2024 for our kids play hockey. He is a championship team building coach both here and abroad. He is the CEO of hockey wraparound and the game seven group, Lee Elias. 

Keith Jones [2:03 - 2:05]: Welcome, Vic. 

Lee MJ Elias [2:05 - 2:12]: Thanks so much for having me. That was a heck of an intro, man. I don't get to hear that from other people too much, but when you say it, it sounds fantastic. 

Vic Morren [2:12 - 2:24]: Yeah, and I was actually telling the truth here. So before we start, know that you are actually familiar with Keith Jones from a previous encounter and like you to share that with us. 

Lee MJ Elias [2:24 - 3:37]: Yeah, Jonesy, first off, great to be here with you today. It really is an honor. But as Vic said, this is actually not the first time we've met. I've got a little story for you. We're going to go back to April 9, 2010, and I don't remember the date because of the day I met you. I remember that date because the Flyers and Rangers were deadlocked in an end of season home and home. And the winner of those games would end up going to the playoffs. It was the first time, as you know, a shootout winner would decide it. But we're at Madison Square Garden the day before and I was privileged to be working for the Rangers at the time. And I always got to the garden early because that's a magical place. Neil, you know that as well. And I was roaming around the arena as you do as a young professional, and there you were sitting in the stands, right? So I go, I'm going to introduce myself to Keith Jones. So I walk up to you and I want you all listening to imagine this. I pull up my ranger's vest and I start unbuttoning my shirt and you're looking at me like, what the hell is this guy doing? And I said, mister Jones, I just need to show you this. And again, Ranger fans, you're going to be upset about this. I pulled open my shirt to unveil a flyers logo because I was born and raised in Philadelphia and I remember you looked right at me, smiled and you go, we're everywhere. And that was the first time we met. 

Keith Jones [3:38 - 3:43]: It was a wonderful moment. What a small world. That's great. It is. It's a beautiful story. 

Lee MJ Elias [3:43 - 4:58]: I love that we've come full circle now and I'm sitting on this amazing podcast with you as a team builder. Jonesy, I just have a few questions. They gave me 25 minutes and I want to make sure that I get as much out of this as possible from a team building standpoint, a culture standpoint. I'm also told I'm the first person to bring a prop on this show. For those of you listening, I'm holding up Jonesy's book, aptly title of Jonesy Keith. I was reading this book actually on the train to New York every day when it came out. And when working with teams, we established that trust, communication, accountability are primary pillars for building a team bond. And I think you've balanced all that throughout your career as a player and a professional. Right? One of my favorite chapters in this book, and I don't know why this one always stood out to me, was titled I'm minus seven. And I remember reading this on the train, like I said. And what stood out to me from that chapter, and it goes into your time about really trying to break into the league, was the balance that you had at a time when you were really striving to make it between your own stats as the title suggests, but also taking care of your team, your teammates taking care of you and also doing everything possible just to make it so where does that mix come from and how do you cultivate something like that? 

Keith Jones [4:59 - 8:33]: That's a really good question. It's not something that I get asked often. I can tell you that when I look back at the minus seven game, which Barry Trots was the head coach I was playing in Baltimore. I won't never forget the game, obviously. We lost ten to eight. I think it was against Utica. They scored an empty net goal and the buzzer went before the puck went over the goal line, so it should not account. So I chased after the referee and I was verbally giving it to the ref. And Paul Gardner was an assistant coach and he grabbed me after he goes, who cares? It's ten eight or nine eight. We lost. The game's over. I said, well, I am minus seven. I care. And we had this argument about it. So anyway, I got called up to the NHL the next day after a minus seven performance. So I never stopped believing that I would get there. I was just so determined to play one game. It wasn't about playing a National Hockey League career, it was about playing one game. Being a 7th round pick drafted out a junior b, you kind of figure out different ways to survive each step along the journey, and a lot of that has to do with being a good teammate, recognizing your role, understanding what you do well to make other players better, and realizing who you are as a player. I knew that I used to argue with my mom, who has passed, and we would have these conversations when I was younger. She'd say, you're a great player. I said, mom, I'm not a great player. I'm a good player and I can make great players better, but I'm not a great player. And they would show every year in training camp after each season in the NHL. They would always put me with two younger players to give them some experience with a top guy. And I was horrendous and I made them worse. You put me with top players, I could make them better, I could make them laugh, I could make them play to their strengths. I could distract for them and once in a while I could make a play, but I wouldn't have got those opportunities if I didn't recognize who I was. So I do think that part of building a team is having players who do things differently and then trying to put all the pieces together. Obviously, star players are a big factor in winning Stanley Cups, but how you enhance their play is really important. And recognizing players that have I guess you would call it the it factor really matters. And realizing that before you move them or don't resign them, or if you do that, that's on you. If you've made mistakes and everyone has and the player excels somewhere else, that means you missed something. So I do think you have to be on top of it. I think you have to watch pretty much every minute of every day when you talk about culture. To me, it's like a living, breathing thing that can change at any moment. And if you're not around to recognize that, you can be in a tough position. So a lot of it has to do with my career, what I did to make it, and recognizing who I was as a player, but also recognizing what other players do well and trying to enhance that. I think that's a big part of building a team and building your culture of your team. 

Lee MJ Elias [8:34 - 9:22]: Yeah. Well, look, I'll say this. I know what you're saying about great players versus good players. I think great people make other people great, and I think you've done that throughout your career. I think that's echoed in your book, and you're actually perfectly leading into my next question, which I love. Right. You talked a little bit about the flyers culture in the previous segment, which was fantastic. In my team building work, I think the Flyers are doing a masterclass in both identity and culture building. Right. The re emergence of those two aspects has clearly been a priority for leadership in addition to building the personnel on the ice. So here's a question for you. What are the questions and conversations that are taking place internally that we may not see that make that a priority? Again, I'm not looking for insider information. I'm looking like, what are those key questions that are asked that we don't see when we're watching on tv? 

Keith Jones [9:22 - 11:58]: You know, the key answer to all that, Lee, is that those conversations take place. It's not one individual making those decisions. I'm the president of hockey operations. John Tortorella doesn't work for me. Danny Brier doesn't work for me. They work with me. And if we don't have that type of structure, it's not going to work. So we're trying to thread a needle here. We're trying to, on the fly, become a competitive team again without going to the bottom. And we're not in a position in Philadelphia that we can afford to go to the bottom. We have to continue to build upwards, and without everyone's opinion being considered, it's going to be hard to do so. We talk a lot. We're together a lot. Both Danny and I go to most every game, including on the road. Unless there's a priority scouting trip that needs to take place, one of the two of us is 95% of the time with the team, with torts, with the coaching staff, and in conversation with the players all the time. Like we are always in the room, non, you know, skate days. We're in the gym just visiting with the guys. There's not a moment that goes by where a player doesn't have an opportunity to come and talk to us about how they're feeling, what we can do better to help them enhance their productivity. There's projects being done throughout the organization for individual players to make sure that we're using every aspect of analytics to make them understand where they'll have a better opportunity to score from and to produce from. So it's doing everything. It's crossing the t's, dotting the I's, but doing it together, and I think that's what is eventually going to get us where we need to go. It's not overreacting to noise, it's recognizing the difference between noise and news and trying to balance all those things in order to keep our fans appreciating what we're doing because they're critically important to what we do and at the same time providing them an entertaining product that they can watch with the eye on the future and see where we're going. And we're trying to share that with our fans as much as we can and being honest with them as much as we can in order to make sure that they feel like they're a part of this process as well. 

Lee MJ Elias [11:59 - 12:43]: Yeah, I think you've definitely accomplished that. I mean, the feeling in Philadelphia for this team right now is kind of the way you described it, they're coming, right? They're going the right way. Right. And that's the direction you want to go in. And this next question is for both you and Neil. In my line of work as a team builder, the misconception that I always have to explain to people is that all pro sports teams have a team culture, and that's actually not true. You see this at times that certain teams don't have it. There's problems that happen in the locker room. So again, question for both of you. What are some of the red flags that you've seen from both a player and organizational standpoint that can threaten or break a team culture and bond and adversely, what are some of the hallmarks of great team cultures and team players. 

Neil Smith [12:45 - 15:56]: I'll go first, Jonesy. I mean, in my time in the NHL, I think it's an easy thing to recognize. Everything starts at the very, very top. And if you have somebody at the top who, for example, the owner or the owner's guy who doesn't know how to build a good culture, doesn't know how to do teamwork, doesn't know how to share in the good times and the bad times, doesn't know how to motivate people to want to put in the long hours that you got to put in when you're in sports, which are incredibly long. And that goes from everybody from the coach all the way through to the secretary that stays there right through the games at night and stuff. If you don't have that, it's going to be really hard to build your culture because you can't go down to level two or level three, for example, within the organization. Say, okay, let's start building the culture at the general manager. It can't happen. If the guy above the general manager, be it the owner, be it the president, be it the corporate guy, if he doesn't want to build that culture and he doesn't know how to build the culture, it's almost going to be impossible for you to get it done because everybody's got to work together. So that's a real red flag that I see in the NHL right now. And without mentioning names of teams, we all know who they are. We all know there's teams out there that obviously don't even have a culture. They don't know what they're doing. Where are they headed? What's going on? You look at who they've hired and you're like, what are you doing? Like, why would you. Where did it come into your head to hire that guy? And then that guy will hire some, some wrong hires as well, and it'll just keep going down the chain. So that's the red flags that I see from the outside, from the inside, and I'll be quicker on this. You've got to stay on top of it every minute, every day, like he said. But the thing you've got to look for is you got to listen to the trainers and listen to the assistant coaches and listen to the locker room attendance and listen to everybody and try to get as much intel as you can about which is a square piece that you're trying to put into a round hole, which is a round piece that you're trying to put into a square hole, which just doesn't fit who's talking about the same guy over and over again, you know, and what are we going to do? And then you go back, as Keith said, you go back with your partners in crime that are there with you, your coach, your assistant GM, your whoever, and you start talking about this and are you hearing the same thing I'm hearing about so and so? And this isn't good. This isn't good. I mean, so and so's wife hates so and so's wife. Like that doesn't work. You saw that in Ottawa a few years ago, if you remember, with Eric Carlson and one of the other players anyway. 

Keith Jones [15:57 - 15:57]: Mike Hoffman. 

Neil Smith [15:58 - 16:18]: Yeah, exactly. And that's my answer to that. You've got to keep your ears and eyes on it all the time, but you don't stand a chance if the guy above you and Jonesy can speak to this. If the guy above you doesn't understand the concept of building culture and doesn't understand, you've got to have a good culture, you got no chance. That's my opinion. 

Keith Jones [16:18 - 19:07]: Yeah, no, it's a great opinion and I'm very fortunate. The individual that hired me, his name is Dan Hilferty. He's our CEO. He is an incredibly talented leader and has great insight on some of the things that Neil just talked about. He's allowing us to do our thing, but at the same time wants to be involved, wants to be around the team, wants the players to know him. He will come into the locker room after games and he is, you know, we're owned by Comcast, but Dan Hilfredy is, you know, our owner and he's the guy that we all go to. And there's a fairly interesting dynamic that comes from that. He's on top of it. He's there. He's within our locker room a lot. It's an open door policy between business and hockey ops, which has been unusual around Philadelphia. That's kind of a new thing, and it's worked seamlessly and so much of it has to do with him and the people that he hired. Knowing what I discovered while working for the team for many years and doing their, you know, their color commentary, I would hear so much stuff and I did stuff that I didn't want to hear. I wasn't looking to hear it. It was coming to me and it was negative. So I had a pretty good head start on recognizing that we had to fix the messaging that was coming out of not just the locker room, but out of the business side as well. People were unhappy. They weren't proud to work for the Philadelphia Flyers. And, you know, when you leave the building from your office desk or the arena as the player, take your gear off and leave. If the first couple people you see that come to talk to you about the flyers, your message is negative. It goes through the entire city. And that's what was happening. The flyers were becoming a team that was never talked about. You know, it was just. If there was just nothing, there was an emptiness. And that's something that we wanted to change. Now, the bar was low. I mean, we had an advantage. So recognizing that and knowing that you can't do it by yourself, I think we're really important. I think that's why we've early on had a good start in that regard, but also recognized how far we have to go in order to keep regaining the trust of not just our fans, but our employees and making sure that we make it a great place to be again. And I think in doing that, we're going to see great benefit and results in the end. So I do think Neil made some great points there about what it's all about. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:07 - 20:14]: Well, and you said it too. It's a living thing. I think this is where a lot of teams, and I'm not just talking sports now. I'm talking everything you said, the corporate side. This is where teams fall apart, right? There's a pulse, and you got to be able to read the pulse as well as a doctor can read a pulse. If there's no pulse, you're not alive. Right. And I think that there's a clear pulse coming out of Philadelphia right now with more than one team. But the point is there's a pulse and it's being read, and you got to know if it's a healthy pulse or not. Jonesy, I do want to ask you this, too. Kind of along these lines of just team culture, broadly, right. To be great at something, you have to have talent. That's a given. But as we've discussed, the type of person you are, you did this in. That first question is just as important as the player or teammate that you are. A lot of my work now started with professional teams, but I'm getting a lot of interest and work with young youth teams, youth organizations. So how much emphasis do you believe youth hockey organizations should be putting on incorporating team building and culture building? 

Lee MJ Elias [20:14 - 20:16]: And I'm not really just talking about. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:16 - 20:34]: Pizza parties and just going out to Chuck E. Cheese as if those still exist into the program. I'm talking about real in depth talking about trust, communication, accountability. The difference between responsibility, commiseration and having a good conversation is that something youth organizations need to be putting more time into right now. 

Keith Jones [20:35 - 23:03]: I don't think you can ever not put enough time into it. I just think that's something that you should exhaust as much energy as you can in trying to get that right. A lot of the young people that come out of those programs that are doing it right end up finding a way to make it to the NHL or in the business world or finding a great career after college hockey, whatever it might be, the ones that are a big part of allowing a team's culture to develop. And because of the way they act and because of how alert they are and recognizing when somebody needs to talk, it needs to, you know, a helping hand in order to improve. You know, how they're feeling about themselves or how they're feeling about how they're playing, the two things go hand in hand. So I do think that those type of players are important and I think NeIl would agree with this. There is some luck involved when you're drafting. We all want great people. You know, we want great people. We do. We want them to grow up and be outstanding young men or women and we want them to just, you know, do great things. But there's luck. I mean, you can't know every detail about every player, although you can know more than you, I think you could ever before. If you're out there pounding the pavement and you have the resources to pay for a, you know, premier scouting department that can really dig in and talk to people like you, Lee, that are associated with kids and teams and growing, I think all of those things are extremely important. But I do acknowledge that there is a little bit of luck. Like we had luck this year in the draft. We drafted just great kids. They showed up at development camp and you get to know them a little bit better and you walk away from talking to them or watching them interact with their friends and you go, wow, that's really cool. Like that's, that's great. They're good hockey players, but they're really good people. And I can't tell you that we knew every one of them inside out before, but we had a pretty good idea. But just to see how they operated was awesome. And then now we have a foundation to continue to build with those kids at every development camp that they come to. And some will progress quicker to the National Hockey League, usually their earlier picks and the others we'll keep an eye on because those 5th, 6th, 7th round picks, once in a while they find their way to the National Hockey League. We want to do all we can to make sure that we enhance them. 

Lee MJ Elias [23:03 - 23:29]: Yeah, we talk a lot on my show. A lot of hockey parents listen to that show, right? And we talk about the importance of, look, you're developing a person before a hockey player and that, that's a massive piece. And what I love about what you just said, and you can see it on your face if you're watching. This is the reaction to the type of person they are. I mean, it really, really matters. And parents know you play a role in this. We always say on the show, you're not crazy. The youth hockey world is crazy. 

Keith Jones [23:29 - 23:29]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [23:29 - 25:10]: You're just having to navigate through that last one for me because I know they're going to cut me off here soon. I really appreciate all the time, guys. It means the world to me again. Look, born and raised in Philadelphia, I'd be amiss if I didn't ask a Philadelphia sports fan question. I do want to say the two greatest fan bases I've been involved with is Philadelphia and New York. Right? When I got to work with the Rangers, that was a special, special time. But Philadelphia fans demand a high standard. They demand excellence. If you're not going to put that product out there, they're going to let you know about it. It's one of the unique things about our season. Excuse me, city. We've seen athletes like Bryce Harper fully embraced that. I loved Mitchkov getting off the plane in an orange Phillies hat. That was a brilliant move. I'm just going to assume he had it on. That's where we're going to go from that. I think sometimes fans can think, hey, the team doesn't really care about us. And I'll tell you what, Jonesy, in my experience in pro sports, that's so untrue. Teams really do care about that fan base for lots of different reasons, not just monetary. I remember a game years ago, I can't remember who we were playing, but it was a horrible storm outside and people still showed up to the arena. I remember the Flyers were losing. I think Peter Laviolette was the coach at the time. And he went in the locker room between periods and basically said, you got 3000 people that dredged through this horrendous weather to be here today. You better go win this game. And they did. I remember that because we heard about that in the post press conference. You talked about it a little bit earlier. Not that fans make decisions when it comes to players and ice time and anything like that. But how much does that aura of Philadelphia fandom play into how you operate this team as president? 

Keith Jones [25:12 - 27:11]: Well, we respect them a lot, and I know them well, and I recognize that it's important that they're talking about the Flyers. I think it's important that we're relevant, and I think in order to become relevant, we have to do things that they appreciate. We want to make sure that we're a tough, hard working team that throws everything out on the ice and gives it everything that they have every shift. And I think John Tortorella is a great coach to send that message to our players. It's a city that is tough. It is a difficult place to play. We recognize that it's not for everybody. I feel very fortunate that Mitzkoff has that type of attitude, that he's going to embrace playing in a tough city. He wants it. He wants to be recognized. He wants to be feeling like he's doing something really cool. And to him, playing in the National Hockey League is everything. The Phillies are a great example. You brought up Bryce Harper. Harper alone wasn't selling out stadium. Harper with a good team, sells out the stadium every night. So it's one thing to have the star and do all you can with that star, but it's another thing to make sure that you have a good team that wins in Philadelphia. And for hockey, we have to go above and beyond that because of where we've fallen to in the pecking order. So we know where we're at, we know where we want to get to. And it's ultimately up to us to help provide the type of product that our fans want to come out and see. So we love it. We loved playing in Philly. Both Danny and I, of course, were able to do that. Dan Hilfredy grew up in Philadelphia, a fan of all sports. So there's a really strong connection and an open mind to exactly what we need to do to get there. So the fans do play a huge part. 

Lee MJ Elias [27:12 - 27:33]: It's a city where a guy will walk up to you with his shirt, rip it open and show you a flyers logo. Vic, I just bookended that for you beautifully. My friends, I really appreciate the time today. Team building, culture building is something. It's in my blood. It's what I believe in. All three of you exude that all the time. And I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you. Let me. Come on, ask these questions. Today means the world. 

Vic Morren [27:33 - 28:17]: Well, it was great. And I think just the insight from your questions and of course Neil's experiences in New York and a career that's really gone over four decades. And Keith, your position with the Philadelphia Flyers? I think the insight and just to be able to do this in a relaxed atmosphere during the summer just has a real feel good aspect to it, and it actually starts to get us prepared for the 2024 25 season. So, Lee, thanks so much for joining us today. And Keith, all the best as a new grandfather, and we look forward to seeing you down in Voorhees in September when the Flyers open training camp. 

Keith Jones [28:17 - 28:23]: Thanks so much, guys. Really enjoyed talking to all three of you guys and appreciate you having me on. Thank you. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:23 - 29:11]: All right, thanks so much for listening to this edition of our kids play hockey featuring the NHL Wraparound podcast. Once again, if you enjoyed this interview, you're really going to enjoy the NHL wraparound podcast. Go check them out. Wherever you listen to podcasts or on YouTube, it is a phenomenal show, not just for the NHL fan, but the people that want to dive a little bit deeper into the thought process of how NHL teams operate and how to run great organizations like that. Neal Smith Vic Moran, I cannot thank you enough for the opportunity to interview Keith Jones of the Philadelphia Flyers. What what a wonderful world we live in. Alright, we'll see you on the next episode of our kids play Hockey. Make sure you check it out. All of our episodes available ourkidsplayhocky.com and join our facebook group our kids Play Hockey, where the conversation continues off the airwave. We'll see you next time. Remember to skate off. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:11 - 29:12]: We hope you enjoyed this edition of. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:12 - 29:14]: Our kids play Hockey. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:14 - 29:54]: Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, ourkidsplayhockey.com. also, make sure to check out our children's book when hockey stops@whenhockeystops.com. it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of our kids play hockey and we'll see you on the next episode. Sadeena.