Retired NHLer Riley Cote on Mindfulness and It's Impacts On Hockey

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 0:55]: Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of your favorite podcast, our kids play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias with Mike Pinelli and Christy Cacciano burns. Our guest today, Riley Cote, was an undrafted player who walked on to an NHL tryout, which resulted in him taking the full road from the CHL to the ECHL to the AHL and eventually the NHL with the Philadelphia Flyers, where he became a hometown favorite. Almost immediately following his eight year pro career, Riley has committed his life to self care, mindfulness and personal development. As a mindfulness teacher, psychedelic integration coach and creative entrepreneur. Riley is very active in the Flyers learn to play program and hosts the very popular Nasty Knuckles podcast with longtime friend and equipment manager Derek settlemeyer. This is going to be a rich episode. Riley, welcome to our kids play hockey. 

Riley Cote [0:56 - 0:58]: Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Pleasure. 

Lee MJ Elias [0:58 - 1:22]: It's our pleasure to have you, buddy. We always love talking to people who have not just made the league, but have dedicated their life to mental health, mental fitness. And we think that that's a great circle right back to our audience with the parents because we can share these messages now that kind of make this go full circle. But before we get into that, Riley, why don't you tell us about your youth minor hockey journey. How did you get into the game and how did you navigate it to professional hockey? 

Riley Cote [1:23 - 3:13]: Yeah, great question. Just grew up in the middle of Winnipeg, Manitoba, obviously, hockey culture up in Canada. My parents were season tickets holder, season ticket holders for the Winnipeg jets. They had passion for hockey and introduced to me, introduced me to the game, you know, as early as I can remember, going to games, getting me skates and a stick, playing on the pond, playing on the street. So as long as I can remember, I really can't remember my childhood without hockey. And then, you know, as I showed that I was interested in it and showed that I loved to go to the rink and play the game, they just supported me as much as they could and grew up playing in Winnipeg. My, all my youth hockey, just different levels, obviously working up the ranks, and I landed up being a, I guess you could say for my age group, a big fish in a small pond, right? I mean, Winnipeg's not the hugest city, and it's one, just one of many cities in Canada. So you can imagine the talent pool expands outside of, you know, your immediate, you know, your home base there. So I moved away from home when I was 16 years old to play in the Western Hockey League. But everything was in Winnipeg. Just. Just loved hockey. Parents, obviously, like every other hockey parent waking up the crack of dawn and carton you around and, you know, here and there and everywhere. And just all I can remember for my parents is just supporting me as much as they could and just reminding me to have a good, you know, good attitude and bring the effort. And as long as I do that still support me. And, yeah, that's kind of the short version of it, but enjoyed it. I mean, I could still remember a good chunk of it. And it was. It was those times of your life where there's really no worries, right? I mean, you're just having fun. You're playing the game that you love, and it really is that there's no attachment to anything else beyond just the fact that you love. You love it, and it brings you. 

Lee MJ Elias [3:13 - 3:17]: Joy, you know, change it, Riley. 

Riley Cote [3:18 - 4:02]: It changes for sure and quickly. And it seems like it's changing quicker for younger players earlier now because there's so much pressure, right. There's so much in the desire to be elite, and you have to choose to be elite. It's almost like gymnastics. I see this with my two girls. It's like you have to, like, choose to be in gymnastics like four years old to give yourself a standing chance to ever, you know, be competitive. You see this with hockey now where it's like you almost have to make a decision really early if you're going to, you know, if you're going to take this seriously and try and be competitive. Because if you miss those few, first few years of hockey in that window, you know, the amount of training that goes into it, such a. Such an early age, the amount of skills and ice time, like, it's almost like you'd be left behind. Not saying that you can't, but it's. It's crazy. How are you? 

Christie Casciano [4:02 - 4:17]: I don't know about you, but that kind of makes me sad because I think our kids are really missing the important element of what my kids got to experience, and you got to experience experience, too, of just the pure joy, you know? 

Riley Cote [4:17 - 5:13]: Yeah. And I agree with that. And I think. And I think we have the ability to create some separation here, too. Right. I mean, not every hockey player needs to play elite hockey, right? Like, I mean, all roads lead to men's league, and the guys are still playing it, love it, right? So, like, you can still play hockey. And this is what I'm actually trying to do. You know, in my neck of the woods here in, like, the. The Westchester Chads Ford area is. Is. Is making it okay to play hockey just because you love to play hockey with, like, no pressure to. To do anything with it besides just showing up at the rink and just having fun with it. You're right. Like, who says that you have to play division one hockey or pro hockey? I mean, the reality is, it's an amazing sport, but I think it gets tainted once you start having these pressures and these fear bodies and these crazy. These crazy energies into it, because the reality is, a lot of these kids might not even want to, but their mom and dad might want them to. And this is where the unhealthiness comes in it. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:13 - 5:52]: Yeah. You know, you're bringing up a funny point, and I wanted to share this with all, all three of you here. Mike and Christy, you'll laugh at this, too. So, Riley, I've benefited greatly from the show, having the youngest kids. It's been a training for me, if you will. And we had games over the weekend, and, you know, you just mentioned the parents. A lot of them were, you know, little. Little anxiety about the games. And I was smiling, like, what are you so excited about? And I said to them, this is. I swear to you this is true. I said, my son woke me up today for the first time and said, we've got a game. Like, I didn't have to go into his room. He wanted to go. He woke me up and said, dad, it's time to go. That the weekend was a win at that point. 

Riley Cote [5:52 - 5:52]: Not. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:52 - 6:28]: Not that it was a fight or anything before, but I said, wow, something's clicked here. That he's waking me up. That's what excites me. The outcome of the games is, you know, not irrelevant. But that wasn't the focus for me this weekend, and I wanted to turn it to that because I think, Riley, you mentioned a really important point is a lot of the pressure comes from us as parents, because we fall into this trap that you're talking about as well. If you got to get to the elite or you got to get to the best, it is. So, okay, if your kid just wants to skate and just have fun, and whether they're aaa down to b or even rec league, there's no right or wrong way to play the game as long as you're enjoying the game. 

Riley Cote [6:28 - 7:26]: Yeah. I think that's an important message. It's a hard one for people to understand because we live in a culture that's so, whatever. Success oriented. Right. Like, you can't just do something for fun, because that would be crazy. Right. You have to do it for a, you know, another reason, which would, in this case, be, you know, chasing something, whether it's money or, you know, or success, because that's the way you view it. But, you know, I have a different position on it than you kind of used to because I was living in this bubble thinking that, well, why the hell would you play a sport if you weren't serious about it, right? If you didn't want to, you know, compete at the highest level? But I've learned to, you know, and excuse my ignorance. Back in the day, it was just like, I just lived in a bubble. And now I see. I see it for what it is. It's like, this is a fun. This is an amazing game. And I see, no, I do work with special hockey and, you know, you know, military, military veterans, you know, through the warriors program and, like, all walks of life. And it's like, what's. What's unique about it is, is that it brings these people. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:29 - 7:41]: Brings them joy. You know, we lost you there for. It's okay. Yeah, so we lost you right at. It brings you. It brings them joy. So if you just pick up right, by saying it brings them joy. 

Riley Cote [7:41 - 8:44]: Well, yeah, it bring. It brings them joy to show up at the rink and be around a team and play hockey for that, you know, that. For the joy that they remember, the reason why they play the game in the first place. There's a camaraderie. Camaraderie. And then there's this element of team building and, you know, the collective unit. And there's a lot of things that are, you know, metaphors for life there. But. But what's. What's the same, no matter what population you're talking about, is like, they. They love it. They enjoy it. And there's no other reason that they play it besides that. You know, they're not getting paid. You know, they're not, you know, just to come to the rink and. And have fun and be around the guys or the girls, depending on who we're talking to, and. And just do it because it's an enjoyable thing to do. There's no, like, you know, expectation beyond that. And I think it's an important lesson because most people hang their hat on, like, we have to do this for this exact reason of, you know, going the highest, you know, the highest possible direction we can with the sport. 

Lee MJ Elias [8:44 - 9:15]: The paradox of it is that Christy, Mike, we've never interviewed any NHL player on this show that was like, man, I hate hockey. I just hated this. And it was the worst thing ever, and I got lucky. Look, I know there are some players that get to a very high level that are not mentally what I'm talking about, but it's the minority, right, Riley? I mean, like, you got to love the game to even think about going to an elite level. If it's a stress filled ball of anxiety that's not good for your life, it's not good for your game, it's not going to play out right. 

Riley Cote [9:15 - 10:00]: Yeah, you're 100% right. But I. But I can remember a time where. Where that shift did happen, where I started to, like, you know, realize it was. It was affecting me in a unhealthy way, where I went from, like, you know, playing this, because I just loved it, and there was nothing else to think about besides showing up at the rink and having fun to. All of a sudden, it's like, you know, double a to triple a now. It's like triple a travel now. We're cruising around the province, and now you get harder coaches that are, you know, now benching you, and you're not, you know, making the right, you know, all of a sudden, it's like the pressure's on. The pressure's on. It's like, well, I remember a few times, like, is this really what I want to do? Is this, is this the way it's supposed to be? You know, because you don't know any other way, right? I mean, you're living in this bubble, and this is the way it is. Moving away from juniors. 

Christie Casciano [10:01 - 10:05]: What age were you? Just so we can kind of figure out the timeline here that you're talking. 

Riley Cote [10:05 - 11:13]: About, I think probably 1415. You're going to these. These out of state, out of province hockey camps, you know, week long hockey camps, and it's a grind, and it's like, what? You know, you know, now, all of a sudden, it's, like, starting to feel like a business without even understanding the business element of it started just being, like, a lot more pressure than I remember. I remember just like, you know, there was no training growing up. It was just like Pawnhawk. You just go and play, you know, put your sticks in the middle and pick teams, right? It was just like. It was just like this, you know, free way of just being right. I think that was why most people are attracted to hockey, especially at a young age, is that there's this element of freedom that comes along with it. Read and react, right? It's a creative sport, creative self expression, you know, and you get out there and you just kind of flow and do what you want to do, and, you know, you don't have anybody yelling at you and telling you don't do it that way, you know, there's enough people in the world and there's enough, you know, industries in the world that do that, right. And all of a sudden you get to a point where it becomes that. And then you have to have, you know, the mental fortitude to be able to either adapt to that or, and, or bow out of it and just play hockey for fun, which is a hard thing to do because it's not really, you know, saying I want to play hockey for fun doesn't seem like it's a thing, at least at a younger ages. 

Lee MJ Elias [11:13 - 11:34]: Anyways, I had a question written down and I'll throw it to you right after, Mike, you know, what would you say to 14 year old you or 15 year old you now knowing what you know? And again, you're kind of talking to the kids that listen to the show right now, right. Because, look, we always have 2020 perspective looking back. But what would you tell yourself at that age today? 

Riley Cote [11:36 - 12:28]: Well, I think it goes back to the question of why, right. Always asking the question of why, why are you doing this? You know, and that goes across the board for anything. Like why are you showing up and playing hockey, you know, and if the question is, is because I want to be an NHL player, that's great. But, you know, the answer should have some version of like, because I love it. If you don't love it, and there's other reasons. If it's because your mom said so, I would say, I would say you might want to rethink what you're doing, you know, but if it is because I think one of the first ones has to be you have you, you love it, you really enjoy it. It brings you some level of happiness. Because if it's not doing that, I don't, I don't know what you're doing. You know, you can have all these dreams, but if there's no passion there, you're not going to find those dreams because you can't, you can't make it without the passion, you know, so if it doesn't fire you up, I wonder if that's a question we should be. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:28 - 12:43]: Asking our kids, you know what I mean? From time to time, like, you know, and not in the leading way of, hey, are you still having fun? Because the answer is just going to be yes, it's, hey, what, what's your, why, you know, why are we doing this? Why do we do this season? Let them answer that question. Mike, I did cut you off. I apologize. 

Mike Bonelli [12:44 - 12:44]: No, no. 

Riley Cote [12:44 - 12:46]: I mean. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. 

Mike Bonelli [12:47 - 15:19]: No, Riley. No, I mean, you're, you're, I don't know. So what we talk about all the time, and it would sound like you're hitting on right. Is, is all the work you do outside of the elite athlete, like, you're, you're, you're working with genuinely people who love to play the game for the fact that it's a game. And I think as a culture of hockey, USA hockey, the NHL, you know, the people that are contributing the money and the funding and the resources for hockey to exist have really done such a disservice to the, to the fan, to the, to the, to the kid who just likes to want to play hockey because we're eliminating all those opportunities for these kids. I work with american special hockey all the time. I cannot find ice for them other than 530 in the morning and 1045 at night, because everybody's like, oh, no, no, we got a twelve view practice at 06:00 well, when you were going to give opportunity to these different communities to enjoy the sport, and ultimately, I think it falls on the governing bodies and the organizations within our, in our ecosystem of hockey to say, listen, we've got to create these spaces for kids not to think that the only way to play hockey is to get in a car, travel to another state, play in a weekend of tournaments. And that's fun because I think if we, if we reverse engineer this a little bit and you've hit it on it multiple times, if you're not playing for fun, I just don't see, I don't see that joy. I don't see that. I don't see that, that fun. Like, I don't see Lee's son waking him up in the morning saying, let's get in the car, we got to go gas it up and go get. To get to the Hilton so we could go play somebody else in a different state. Like, I just think the fun when we, as we take it out of it and you as a player growing up, you, you're having fun because you didn't, you just were in a fun atmosphere. Nobody, nobody told you you weren't allowed to go on the pond. Nobody told you a lot of weren't allowed to go play street hockey. Nobody told you you can just, you know, go out and have fun for your friends or you had to skip, you had to go to training and skip the fun piece. And we hear that Lee just said it. I mean, we hear it out of every NHL player we talk to, every PWHL player. We talk to every high level athlete that we speak with it all, but is all about the fun piece, but everything we do takes fun away. And I just want to. Where is that? How do you fix that? Like, how do you, or what are you doing to combat that? I guess. 

Riley Cote [15:20 - 19:59]: Yeah, you know what? It's a great question. And I got a unique opportunity in the Philly area with Philadelphia hockey Academy and total package hockey, which is another, you know, hockey academy where I'm able to teach mindfulness through the academy. And there's a couple reasons why it's a good fit, is one is because I'm not dealing with their respective teams. Right. And the politics that have anything to do with them. It's really them as a human and them as, you know, a human that loves hockey, that they're actually going to school in an environment that supports, you know, their dreams in some way, shape, or form. But I'm able to ask these questions around the why, you know, and ask these harder questions, but also bring some, you know, bring some, you know, some realism to, you know, to the space and, you know, you know, bring some realism to the adversity that they are probably already are aware of. But, like, you know, that the adversity comes along with being an athlete or pursuing to be an athlete and then making the parallels to life, you know, so I'm able to kind of, like, take two of my favorite things in life, which is, you know, hockey, which is a sport I grew up playing. And, you know, this world of mindfulness and teaching not just youth, you know, but adults as well, but just bringing a level of awareness around, you know, their thinking, their bodies. Right. We, you know, another thing we could get into is just the unhealthiness of how we just, we just reduce our being to just being a hockey player. And I was guilty for it, too, and to a fault. And some people would argue, be like, you need that. You need to embody that fully to ever give yourself a standing chance to be a professional or highly successful individual, whatever art, your craft you're in. But I also see the unhealthiness in it where you think you are that I thought I was a hockey player, meaning that's who I was as the core of my, you know, my character. I was a hockey player and I was a hockey fighter until I was no longer either of those. And then I had to look myself in the mirror and like, oh, the hell? Who the hell are you? Right? So I've just, like, spent the last, you know, 24 years of my life embodying this, the sport, to the point where I. It actually consumed me. And then, you know, getting into fighting because I wanted it so bad and all this unhealthiness that come along with it because the pressures that I put on myself probably the most, it was myself, right? These pressures that I, you know, letting my parents down this and that, letting whoever down, letting myself down, the fear bodies. So I get. Now I get an opportunity to kind of talk to these experiences that I had and bring some, you know, some. Some realism to their current situations where, like, separating the human from the athlete. And if you pour in more into the human and fill up that toolbox, you know, more mindfulness, you know, tapping into breathing as a superpower, gratitude little, you know, maybe just like, treating the body, um, you know, a little more gentle way instead of training over training the body and just, like, looking at these. The two sides of the coin here, and obviously, naturally, that spills over into hockey performance if that's what you want to do. And actually what you're really. You're where your heart is. But if it's just about, just because you love to play hockey, go to a hockey academy doesn't mean that you're necessarily buying into the idea that you want to become pro. Most these guys probably do at this point because why else would you go, you sign up for in hot hockey academy if you're. If your heart wasn't in it? But so I get an opportunity to kind of bring some, I guess, some healthiness into it because these mental health crisis is bad enough as it is, then all of a sudden, you got parents pressuring their kids and a lot of unhealthiness that goes into the sport when the sport, again, to all the stuff we're talking about, should be something enjoyable for them. If you take away that joy with politics and unhealthiness and body shaming and this shaming and that shaming, I mean, it gets bad real quickly. And, you know, toxic kids can be sometimes when they're not, you know, in a position to self regulate and they get frustrated, well, they just spew their venom on other kids and they're mean and you know what I mean? And it's like, just like this culture of unhealthiness that just keeps kind of, you know, recreating itself in different forms. So I got an opportunity now to, you know, at least the way I see it in my small little area, you know, with a couple groups to be able to prove the concept of, like, you know, we can. We can do both. We can. We can actually train hockey players, you know, in that world of performance, but we can also, you know, not ignore the fact these are human beings that need to be taught how to self regulate and how to focus their mind and concentrate and be more mindful of their bodies. And, you know, where they, you know, where they fit in and all this stuff. It's just a different level of awareness. Have both. He doesn't have to, you know, pick one or the other. 

Christie Casciano [19:59 - 20:15]: Riley, I wonder if you could take a moment for those who might not be familiar with mindfulness. What is it, and how early do you introduce it to your child? And what are some simple ways you can do that every day in life? 

Riley Cote [20:16 - 24:10]: Yeah, it's a great question. And, you know, I think this interfaces to everything we do. It's not, you know, it's not just hockey. It's everything. It's just. I think it would just sum it up to, you know, the mental state of being present. Right. I mean, it's presence. And when we're present, you know, we're in creative flow. And I think that's why, you know, if you talk about hockey or creative sports, that's why kids are attracted to them without even knowing it. It's in a creative expression. They get to take the puck and they get a dangle. They get to try whatever they want with that ultimate freedom. But they're present in that moment when they get the puck. They're not thinking about tomorrow's homework or yesterday's, you know, grounding. You know, they're. They're in the moment. They're enjoying it. And I think we can take that analogy and apply it to everything we do. It's like, okay, now we're off the ice in the locker room. Can we be more present while we're taking our first skates, or now we're worrying again? Are we back to worrying, and are we back into depression? The mind is an active, very active thing. We're trying to reel in the mind and taking that, just applying it throughout the day through our lives. It's like, just a little bit more awareness. Oh, I'm talking to myself a little bit more negatively now. Can we shift that and be a little more present with our thoughts and our self talk, reframe, you know, so we can now start telling ourselves positives, you know, oh, we did great last night. Or we, you know, we worked really hard, and I had a really good attitude, and, you know, this. This self, this, you know, positive self affirmations. You know, we can extend that to all of this stuff being a little bit more mindful, but our body. Our body's sore. Maybe we don't need to go grind today. Maybe we need a rest and recover. So it's like all these different things that just take a moment to tune into, but there's, like, hyper awareness there. It's, oh, geez. Like, I'm feeling a certain way. Maybe I shouldn't be around that person. Maybe he's not. He's not making me feel a certain way, or maybe I'm not making myself feel a certain way. So I know it's a little bit, you know, it's a little bit much to explain, and it sounds like a lot, and it is because it's a practice, and I think that's, you know, taking it beyond, you know, the hockey practice or strength and conditioning. It's like, oh, we have another practice. We have a practice, and we have the responsibility to be in control of our thinking, because if we don't control our thinking, we don't control our emotions. And that's the crazy world we're living in. The thoughts are all over the place, and you can see it in the crazy, violent world we're living in, as people are expressing in very negative ways. And this happens in hockey. You come to the bench, you made a bad pass. Who cares? Well, smash your stick, swear a thousand times, yell at the coach. Like, is that necessary? You know? Is it? I don't know. Probably not. No. I coach pro hockey, too, and we, you know, we didn't like to see that because that was showing that you didn't have the ability to self regulate. And, you know, these are important things because the best players in any sport or, you know, or in any walks of life have composure, right? You have composure with the puck. We're not panicking. We're not freaking out, you know? So it extends to not just beyond the mind. It's the emotional body. It's how we react in the world. How reactive are we to adversity and stress? So. And then they take it outside of the locker room, out of hockey in general. It's like we go to school or we go here and go there. It's like, I would like to think that what we learn there or teach there can apply to, you know, being in a parking lot where someone cuts you off. Are we gonna snap and, you know, freak out and throw stuff at them? Or I, you know what I mean? Just like, maybe have acceptance for them. Maybe they're just, you know, having a bad day. They're human, right? We all are human. And, you know, trying to navigate this crazy world. So, a little bit long winded, but it's. But it's. But it's like such a big topic because it interfaces with everything we do. We're not mindful. We're. We're mindless, you know? And I was, you know, like most people, I was like that, too, you know, mindlessly kind of cruising through life thinking that I got to chase this and chase that to show the world that I'm successful. And it's really not about that, you know, and it just takes away a lot of the pressure when you start thinking a little bit differently, you know? 

Lee MJ Elias [24:11 - 24:36]: You know what's funny about consciousness? Present moment awareness, mindfulness, Riley, is that Christy had asked, you know, too, like, when can you start? How do you know to do it? The younger you start, the better. And I actually find that the children that I work with, especially the young ones, have a much easier time with this than adults. And look, the short term is, there's just not a lot of baggage there yet. I don't like to use that term, but live that much it is, right? 

Riley Cote [24:37 - 24:37]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:37 - 26:37]: And it's funny you mentioned this, because my daughter was in the car the other day, she's eight. And she said, daddy, what's consciousness? Because I talk about it a lot. I'm sitting there suddenly, like, how do you explain consciousness to an eight year old? And I basically said to her, kind of what you said is that, look, it's about being present. And I explained to her that the past has happened already. The future hasn't happened yet, but your life is taking place right now. And that's true all the time. But I also say that your mind is wired to wander to the future and the past. It's a defense mechanism. And it's okay to go there sometimes as long as you can bring yourself back. And then this brings me to kind of the. The point I'm trying to make is you said this, right? You gotta practice. And that's. That's where I think people miss this, of, well, how do I do that? You've got to practice. And it's not just the kids, my friends, it's all of us. You gotta practice. You gotta be patient with your practice of this present moment stuff. And then you gotta not judge yourself too much when things don't go perfectly right. If you get a little road rage, it happens to all of us. It's okay. Just bring yourself back to the present. Moment. Right. The kids, the adults and everyone and everything in between that cannot bring themselves back. They're not practicing this. Excuse me. And that leads to trouble. Right. So we start as young as eight years old, training kids, present moment awareness, and it can be as simple as 15 seconds of just listen for the farthest away sound you can hear. Listen to the closest sound you can hear those reps build up. And what I've always been amazed about, Riley, is that after three or four months of this, you'll see them start doing it on the bench without any prompting instead of breaking their stick. It'll freak coaches out sometime when the kid's there with his eyes closed or her eyes closed, listening. But you teach them young, and then now they take this with them for a lot of their life. So I always say we have to start even younger than people think. That doesn't mean we're not going to help anyone older than eight. 

Riley Cote [26:37 - 26:37]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [26:37 - 27:01]: But. But that's the starting point. Right. And coaches, parents, if you don't know, quote unquote, how to do this, go online, man, look at Riley's stuff. There's so much information out there and there's so many people sharing this information. You have access to it, but you, you got to kind of take the time to look into it and practice it yourself. Right. So, anyway, now I'm being long winded. 

Christie Casciano [27:01 - 27:35]: But that's a good point to bring in the parents because we've all seen the reactions in the stands with parents when things don't go the way they want to or, you know, the ref makes a call and tempers flare and, you know, you see, I've seen fights in the stands with parents, parents getting ejected because they're so hot headed and their mouths can't. So important for parents to practice the mindfulness, too. Exactly what Riley was saying. 

Riley Cote [27:36 - 28:39]: Probably more important, honestly, because. Because they're around their parents more than they are their team and, you know, their environment. And if the mom and dad are stressed out and don't have the ability to self regulate like that, that energy just gets passed down to the child. So then the child goes to the rank and he might work for, work on mindfulness for an hour. But if 23 of your hours is not mindfulness and stress and chaos, well, you know, it generally works out the other way. But, yeah, the parents need it, to me, probably the most because they're stressed. They got, you know, they're trying to pay the bills and cart their kids around and, you know, a lot of times, overreactive and they're a lot of times trying to live vicariously through their children, and they think that, like, by forcing their kid to do this or doing this and giving them crap after their games, that that's actually helping them. The way I see it, it's not, in fact, it's probably pushing their, you know, the child away from it and then, you know, getting into altercations in the status. It's just like. It's just craziness. Like, I mean, I could go on for days on that whole piece, but the parents, it's not this audience. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:39 - 28:40]: Don't worry. 

Riley Cote [28:42 - 28:55]: But, yeah, I think it needs to come from the top down, you know, and remind. Reminders. Reminders. Coaches reminders, parents reminders. You know, just all reminders. They're planting seeds, right, and just keep watering them. 

Mike Bonelli [28:56 - 29:32]: So. So I think the way I'm, the way I'm hearing this is like, why aren't we doing this? Like, like, to me, like, if you. If you. If we sat in a coach's meeting in the beginning of the year for parents, I said, okay, we got to work on. We got to work on a shooting coach. We have a power skating program. We have a defensive specialist. Everybody gets a goalie coach. We even, you know, maybe. I think a lot of pros even talk a little bit about nutrition and maybe a little bit more in depth than we used to and that. But nobody is saying, but where are we carving out time for the mental piece of the game for all of us? The coach, the trilogy. 

Riley Cote [29:32 - 29:32]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [29:32 - 30:12]: The coach, the parent and the player, and not, not at pro hockey. But maybe you could talk about, like, what's a good starting point, then, for us as coaches and parents, people working with kids. That makes it as important or build it into our curriculum, where we would have the same urgency to make sure we have a power skating coach every week. Like, what can we do in small bites, you know, to get to where, what you're doing right now, working with teams and individuals and players. Like, how can we. How can we get to that point without having to reinvent the whole program and have some kind of crazy budget to do this? 

Riley Cote [30:14 - 33:15]: Yeah. I mean, it's a great question. I mean, it starts with awareness. The fact that you're asking the question and seeing that there's a need for it is a starting point. Right. I think there's a lot of people in the hockey world that don't even think that this is a thing yet or, you know, it's. They don't see the value of it and trust me, I've spent the last few years kind of banging down some of these doors and trying to bring some awareness to it. And I think it's just not. It was what hasn't been sexy enough for a lot of people to, you know, to get behind because, you know, skills on the ice is sexy, right? Strength and conditioning and lifting weights. Like, there's, there's, there's, there's visible results there, right? Like, immediate visible results. You can see, you know, you know, a couple weeks that you can improve certain things, but, you know, the parents can see that. It's very tangible. You know, we get into the mental health stuff and, you know, get into the mindset stuff. It's just, it's a different animal. You know, you could appear to be doing a lot of work, you know, when you're, you know, in the mindfulness world, but, like, you know, for someone that doesn't understand an outsider looking in, you'd be like, well, what are you guys doing? And why are you doing that? And, you know, is this gonna, is this gonna bring more results on the ice? And, and you can show them all the data to support it, but, you know, if the person doesn't understand it, like, there's ignorance, there's usually not really good understanding there, right? Because you just, like, I've been, you know, called a lot of different cuckoos, you know, cuckoo names before, right? Because I'm thinking outside the box for a lot of these things that I'm involved in, but they keep, they keep proving to be true. And it's like, well, not that this is about, like, being right or wrong, but it's like if you're ignorant to an idea, naturally your position would be not to try to understand it anymore. You're just going to do what you do and what you know, which is like, let's go back on the ice and bag skate. Like you think of, like, the evolution of some of the stuff, you know, the training and the philosophies and, you know, work versus recovery. And you go from the seventies, you know, broad street bullies to, like, the era we're living in now and, you know, from drinking beers to, you know, archaic recovery to. Or a lack of recovery to, you know, the emphasis on this now. We're at a pivotal point in human history, let alone sports, where these conversations are actually being had. So I would say you need someone in the higher level of the organization to believe in the idea. It took me two years to get one of these hockey academies to believe in the idea until another hockey academy comes in and sees what I'm doing, instantly loves it. Essentially, you sign today, the other one sees me doing with the other one, and all of a sudden now they want to do it because now they see the value in it. But, like, the reality is, is like they're just like, crunching numbers and is this, well, is this going to generate revenue and blah, blah, blah. Like, not even thinking about, is this going to actually improve the child's mental health? You know what I mean? It's like these, you know, this is the corporation that, you know, the corporate thinking versus, like, we're not just, you know, just a bunch of, you know, animals in the meat factory. Like, these are human beings. And if you actually, you can do both, you can make money and actually support these children's mental health, but you need someone to believe in the idea. 

Mike Bonelli [33:15 - 33:41]: Well, if you're retaining more kids and you're retaining more kids and your kids are healthier, you're going to make money. I mean, so if it's purely money, like I said, it's all time. Like, if you wanted everything you want to do to make more money for your only goal is you didn't care about development, you didn't care about if your kids went anywhere, you don't care if your only goal was to make more money, then what we're doing now would not be the way to do it. 

Riley Cote [33:41 - 33:42]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [33:42 - 34:39]: What you're saying it'd be to bring more kids in, give more kids opportunity, create more, uh, you know, recreational programming. When you play triple a hockey, you have no money. Like, you, you don't pay for money to spend. Like, there's nowhere, there's no, there's no growth. Like, so, to me, that's where, you know, if you want the longest term investment for your kid, then maybe this is where you invest your money, right? And the rest will take care of itself. Because if your kids quit at 15, because they just can't stand walking into a rink, then what the heck is the RoI that you're even looking for anyway, where you're eight year old? Like, it's so far into me. And maybe that's why we're having this discussion, right? Because more of these parents have to get in and go, what the hell am I doing if my, my main goal is I want my kid to play pro hockey? Okay, then this, this is probably pretty important because we're seeing it more and more. Like, we never, like, listen, when you were playing, right, we never heard about the mental note. 

Lee MJ Elias [34:39 - 34:39]: It was weakness. 

Mike Bonelli [34:39 - 35:14]: There's weakness, then we never heard you hit it. You, you. You never heard that a player had to go into a substance abuse program or, you know, a player program. You never heard about it. They just either disappeared because they were just a chess piece. But now that so much money invested in these athletes and these young men and women, that we have to make sure that. That they're there, you know, having an end result, that that is. That is a positive result. So why, to Lee's point, why aren't we doing this with six year olds if our end result wants to be to have a great 23 year old? 

Lee MJ Elias [35:14 - 37:19]: I do want to add in here, too, Riley, before you answer that, look, there's also a lot of fear. I do think the tide has changed the need for mental fitness within hockey programs. I'm seeing a lot of heads turning now, thinking kind of from a corporate standpoint. Oh, this is a way, if we could stand out from the group. But I'm also seeing acceptance of it of, like, this is important. The big challenge I'm seeing, Mike, to your point, is, a, they don't know how to do it, or b, and this is. This is real talk, right? There's fear because people, it's tough to change, and sometimes people don't want you to get a closer look at their psyche because there's not a lot of positive things going on up there. And if you start teaching their kids that they're going to inevitably go to them. But that's also the point, right? Is to kind of flip that, of mental fitness is not a side thing. It is extremely important. I always use the metaphor, you know what happens if you go lift weights or go to the gym? You know what happens if you stop? You're in shape or out of shape. Your brain is very similar. Your mind is very similar. If I'm very mindful and I'm doing the reps that I was talking about and I just stop, bad things are going to start happening. It's not mental health. Mental fitness is not something you achieve, right? It's not something you just get and you got it. It's something you work at every day, and if you're lucky, you can do it the rest of your life. It's just like, it's one of those things. There's no end to it, right? It's an infinite game. And again, the prioritization of it, when we're talking about the ROI of youth hockey, right? If, you know, for the parents listening, the ROI is that you're Riley. We've all said this. Everyone has said this on the show. At some point, it is a vehicle for your kids growth as a person. You're trying to make a better person. Better people make better hockey players. If we go at this only thinking about college scholarships or junior hockey or pro hockey, I mean, it's, look, if you achieve that, great. But, man, you've missed a lot if you achieve that without the stuff we're talking about. Right, Riley? I'll throw it to you, bud. 

Christie Casciano [37:20 - 37:44]: I have one more question. Riley, I was wondering if you could dive a little deeper with us and give us some specific examples of the difference that kind of mental health training made either in the individual or with a team so that we have some really good takeaways and have a better understanding of why this is so important. If you could share some examples for us of the difference it made. 

Riley Cote [37:45 - 38:11]: Yeah, for sure. And it takes time, right. Like, any other skill, something that's foreign to you is not going to naturally. Maybe you're not going to see results very quickly, but. But you also can if you really believe in it and actually. And actually subscribe to it. But it's just like, anything like we're talking about has to be cultivated. Right? It's just like, you can't just be a one time thing or just a thought. 

Mike Bonelli [38:11 - 38:11]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [38:11 - 38:13]: You can't pizza party today. 

Riley Cote [38:13 - 42:58]: Yeah, exactly. Right? Like, there's a lot of buzzwords being thrown around. Right? Like, I think you hear a lot of mindset. You know, people are kind of backdooring this work with just mindset, which is great. Right? It's. It's. It's still in the. In the same direction, except for the way I see mindset is just like one pillar in the mindfulness program, right? It's like mindset is one piece. But, like, I. You could talk about mindset all day long, but if you're not practicing how to get there, you're not practicing the, you know, the actually art of shifting, you know, the mind, you know, in challenging situations. It's just. No, it's no different than yelling at your child to focus, but never teaching him how to focus. Right. It's like, well, yeah, focus. Well, if you just take for granted he knows how to focus, but there's actually a lot of different exercises you could do that would support that and train that versus just like, you know, just them learning organically how to focus based on traditional education. But I've seen, I think the biggest thing that I see with this is kids ability to retain focus longer and their ability to self regulate quicker, meaning that when life or a situation on ice gets stressful or frustrating, that they're not losing their shit right away. And I think it seems to be pretty consistent. And they come hand in hand is because the more present we become, you know, more. The more enjoyable the experience is. The game is more fun when you're enjoying it, you know, you're present in it, and then when you turn the puck over, you have a bad shift or goal, you know, you get scored on whatnot. Like, it just doesn't seem like it bothers you as much. Right, over time. Right. And I think that's the goal, you know? And then you're able to come to the bench, take a breath versus overreacting. So now the recovery time is shorter. You know, there's all these different things to go into now we're able to decompress and, you know, and relax a little bit, reflect, maybe on the mistake and refocus and then go on the ice. And then now it's like, talk about mindset. Okay, well, instead of, you know, getting mad at my teammate or myself or the coach, now I'm able to reframe and just, you know, again, going back to that self talk piece, it's like, I'm going out this next shift, and I'm going to be an impact player, you know, whatever I am, you know, followed up with, like, something positive, and then, you know, then it's kind of complete. That cycle is complete versus, like, the energy is all over the place. We're coming to the bench, breaking stuff, shooting water, blah, blah, blah. And then the shift comes, and the next shift comes back up, and we're not ready. We're not present, you know, we're not ready to go. And then, therefore, the next shift is probably more of a disaster than the last one, you know, and then the cycle continues. So I would say that I see. I see it pretty consistently in a pretty short amount of time. In fact, this summer, I did this, like, summer camp. It's called socce hockey. They get these little sleeves they put on the. You know, they put on their sticks, and they. It's like an after school intramural program, and it was a week long, and I went there, and these kids were first and second grade, and I do rhythmic mindfulness, so I bring in drums. Right? So the interesting way of teaching present moment is drumming. Right? I mean, there's. Science supports that. History supports it. In training, the brain team building, we got, you know, first and second graders that never held the drum never, you know, never heard a rhythm or never tapped a rhythm from the first day to, you know, to the fifth day. And a lot of these kids, you could tell, like, borderline ADHD right away, like, you know, right away, like, the drums are on their heads, like, upside down, you know, but by the fifth day, you could see in just five days, like, how. How focused kids can actually get by just bringing some awareness to it, but giving them something enjoyable. I think it's the key here, is, like, I'm not teaching them sitting meditation like a buddhist monk. That would never happen. But you get them in a circle with a drum, it's enjoyable. You know, there's a connection piece, there's a communication piece, a community piece. All of a sudden, without even having to say it or talk about the science and the history, they feel it. I think that's the key here, is like, they feel the presence. It forces them into presence. It's enjoyable. There's a creative expression there. It's positive creative expression. And in five days, you can see from day one to day five how much more focused even the most unfocused kid was. He was actually engaging in it. So that's a small group size in a small amount of time. But now, this year, I'm excited because I got a full hockey season to work with these different populations that I'm going to be at least once a week, if not twice a week. And you're going to see, you know, the watering of the seeds. Watering of the seeds. Watering of the seeds. And then all of a sudden, you're going to see in a nine month, you know, span. I'd like to think some incredible improvements around their focus, concentration, ability to self regulate and beyond. So that's so cool. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:00 - 43:07]: You will definitely see improvements to it. I love, you know, I love that you brought up ADHD because we throw that word around like crutch that kids got ADHD. 

Riley Cote [43:07 - 43:08]: Oh, yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:08 - 43:13]: Okay, well, what are we doing to help the kid? Like, you know, give more sugar. 

Riley Cote [43:13 - 43:16]: Yeah, give him more sugar and less attention. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:17 - 43:18]: He likes the tablet. 

Riley Cote [43:18 - 43:19]: Yeah, exactly. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:19 - 43:56]: You know, it. It just takes work, you know? And another thing, Riley, too, you were talking about just kind of emotions. It was actually my brother said this phrase that to my niece, and it really made sense, and I started applying it to the game, and it was that kids don't always realize that the feelings that they're feeling will end like there's an end to it. It doesn't last forever. And this could be elation. It could be devastation. What you're feeling, it will not feel like that forever. I mean, there might be remnants of it, but it doesn't. Doesn't last forever. Kids don't tend to realize that they think that what they're feeling is going to be it forever. 

Riley Cote [43:56 - 43:56]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:56 - 44:40]: Right. So. So I've started telling the kids that, like, hey, this. It's not going to last forever. You got to breathe. You got to get present. Let's talk a little bit. You know, the other thing, too, is, I'd love your take on this, too. The acknowledgement of the things that you've said, feelings or that you're not present. There is so much power grabbed when you acknowledge what's going on. When you say, oh, I'm. You said early in the show, I'm talking negatively to myself. Just saying that even in your head gives you so much power over that emotion or that situation. That's another thing we. We try and practice is having, and we do this with adults to express to me what you're feeling and say it out loud. Well, I'm mad. Good. 

Mike Bonelli [44:40 - 44:41]: That's. 

Lee MJ Elias [44:41 - 45:03]: I want you to say that. I want you to acknowledge the feeling, because now you will have some control over that. It's just if we're talking tips, right. I think that that's something that every parent, every coach can do. I'm not saying, hey, shut up down there. Sit down on the bench and shut up. Like, that's. That's nothing. That's not going to help. But you have to help these kids. Acknowledge what. What are you feeling right now? And it's a little different than saying, hey, I know you're mad. 

Riley Cote [45:04 - 45:04]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [45:04 - 45:04]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [45:04 - 45:15]: Ask them, what are you feeling right now? That it's funny because a lot of times they won't be able to tell you. They don't know. They're not that in touch with their emotions yet. I do love the rhythmic drumming, though. That's. Yeah, that's a new one I'm gonna have to look into. 

Riley Cote [45:15 - 50:17]: Yeah. Really? It's powerful. It's powerful because I. You know, some of the other work I do outside of, you know, youth hockey and mindfulness is really around altered states of consciousness. Right. It's. It's finding more creative ways to get people present and in tune with their emotions. It's all connected. Right. We grew up in a culture. We suppress emotions. Right. You go, you. You have feelings. Oh, we got to suppress those. Like you said earlier, like, tough, tough it. Tough it out, tough it out culture. Right. And it's like, that's a, that's a, that's a hairy line to be riding when you talk about suppressing emotions, because they're going to come out, they're there. They're designed to come out and express in one way, shape or form. So if you got emotions that are being bottled up, expect them to come out when you least expect them. So I think to what you're saying is important and super healthy. That would never been a thing back in the day. Oh, hey, Johnny, you know, how are you feeling this? You know, it's like, you know, basically it was just like, push that kid to the side because he's, you know, he's not bringing his a attitude. Yeah, call himself. Exactly. So that's super important and that, that needs to happen because I'm, you know, in the belief system is that feelings are the most important thing we have. Like that is, you know, that is the, say the spiritual compass. If we're not following your heart, like every spiritual text talks about, right? Is like following your heart. It's like, it's almost like a navigation system. There's discord if we're not, you know, if we're not present and in a higher vibration now, we're like in the future, worrying, you know, there's discord. And those are just the ways, the body's ways to remind us to be back present and find these happier versions of yourself. Because, you know, every person on the planet, like, you know, if you had list three things that you'd like to, you know, accomplish in this lifetime, I'd like to think that most people and the top three would be like, find happiness, right? And happiness can't be found outside of ourselves. There's things that can make us quote unquote happy, er, in the moment. You know, maybe that's pleasure and be confused as happiness. But like, the reality is, is happiness is an inside job. It has to be cultivated from within. And that's, that's why the arts exist. That's why people, you know, there's a, you know, the healing arts and all this stuff is like, you have to be able to express emotion through something and then you can, you know, you can express emotion through hockey, right. Skill and composure and poise and look at myself. And back when I played pro hockey, I was expressing myself, not knowing it at the time, but I was expressing myself, obviously in a violent way. But like, I. There was, there was fear, bodies. Now that I'm able to kind of understand my psychology, I was fighting out of fear. I was fighting out of fear of failure, feeling myself down, my parents down. So it was coming from a negative energy, even though, like, people praised it, you know, the hockey coach. Oh, yeah, you're a fighter. And, you know, some fight fans, like, love it. But, like, I'm looking back, it's like, that's a negative form of self expression if I ever saw one. You know, it's like. But it's got to come out. It's going to come out in some way, shape or form. So I think, you know, just the feelings, like, just that emotional intelligence that we can teach, it's like not just bearing it, it's like sitting with that, like you said, like sadness. Okay, let's sit with that. Maybe there's lots to learn in that feeling. It's not to just push it away and it's going to come back double time and, you know, you know, next week, and then you're going to overreact. Someone's going to say something is going to trigger you, and then you're going to, you know, then you're going to find yourself having to apologize and blah, blah, blah. So being in touch with their emotions, to me, is like, is probably the most important thing because, you know, when you talk about mindfulness, you know, part of, like, thoughts coming through the monkey mind is like, we don't have to emotionalize every thought, right? A lot of these thoughts that come through are not even ours and, or don't really require or deserve thinking or emotion at all. But once we start emotionalizing the thoughts, oh, you know, little Joey said this about me. It makes my heart. Now, if you believe that to be true, well, now of a sudden, your emotional body gets affected. Oh, now, you know, now we lower a vibration because, you know, little Joey thinks that, you know, little Tony said something bad about him. You know what I mean? It's like, now all of a sudden, like, first verses be like, last is the story. That's not true. It's just a thought, you know, letting that pass, you know, so we're not letting every thought, everything, you know, affect or riddle our emotional body, but, but there's some stuff that does, then we have to be honest with what it is, you know, and, and talk about it. Otherwise it's just going to get buried. But, you know, positive forms of self expression. Hockey is one, but there's others, right? And hockey is also mixed in with a lot of other baggage that doesn't exactly equate to a positive mental health either. So drumming other, you know, there's a lot of engaging things of the arts, right? I mean, we kind of throw the arts to people that are granola. But guess what? We're all artistic and we're all creative. And in fact, if more hockey programs infuse the arts and these forms of positive self expression into them, I would like to think that they're creating better humans, first of all, but also probably more creative hockey players. So I don't know. I mean, because it's just a different way of thinking, processing information. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:18 - 51:31]: No, I agree with you 100%, Riley. And. Sorry, excuse me. This has really been a tremendous episode just about the importance of mindfulness and the importance of how this applies to your journey. I'm not even saying hockey journey right now, that this is a really valuable part of just growing up. And then once you're quote unquote, grow up, even though I say don't grow up, it's a trap, you know, continuing to do it. And the earlier we can teach this, along with eating healthy and taking care of your body and building skill sets, the creativity of mental fitness, and that the fruits that it provide are so much more valuable than I think, some of the other things I just spoke about. So I want to thank you for sharing all this. And moreover, thank you for the work that you're doing, because you really are impacting lives. You know, when you started this journey, like you said, I think there were people that were. This is psycho babble. Riley's gone crazy. And now we're at a point that, you know, people do not look at you like that. And it's really wonderful. They're saying, no, he's figured this out and he wants to share it and we need to hear it. So, you know, I'm wishing you all the success on that journey, man, because the community really needs it, and you are really a flag bearer and ambassador for that side of the game. 

Riley Cote [51:31 - 51:49]: Well, thank you. I appreciate the kind words and I love what you guys are doing. So if I can ever be of service to you guys, I know this work is. Is obviously important and it's never going to stop, right? It's. We haven't scratched the surface. So if I can ever help you guys out in some way, shape or form, amplify, you know, the message, they. 

Lee MJ Elias [51:49 - 51:51]: Let me know you're doing it right now. 

Riley Cote [51:51 - 51:54]: Yeah, we can do it again. If you ever need a guest, we will. 

Lee MJ Elias [51:54 - 52:53]: We will take you up on that. Be careful, man. We might become a weekly thing, if not, good. But listen, that's going to do it for this edition of our kids play hockey. I want to thank Riley Cote for being on here today. Christy cash on a burns Mike Benelli, best two linemates on the planet. Remember, you can always text us following the link that accompanies this episode, or email us team at our kidsplayhocky.com. but above all, be mindful, be present, enjoy your hockey. Enjoy it. Have fun. You're more than just a hockey player, my friends. That's it for this episode. Posted. Skate on. We'll see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this edition of our kids play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, ourkidsplayhockey.com. also, make sure to check out our children's book when hockey stops at when hockeystops.com. it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of our kids play hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.