A Guidebook To Youth Sports With Tim Cook

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Hey everybody, fantastic interview today with uh Tim Cook, not of Apple. Uh Tim Cook of hockey, as we're gonna call him, who's recently written a book titled Youth Sports, How to Play the Game. Uh we're gonna go through some really actionable items and discussions today about how to approach youth hockey in general, everything from mentality to uh skills coaches to you know triple A, double A, elite, tier one uh stuff. And also Tim's journey in the game, which has really been eye-opening uh in terms of how he now approaches the game as a coach, an award-winning coach at that, and someone who played at the highest levels uh of hockey. It's really a great episode. Uh I say that every week and I mean it, but it's just another one. I'm so so thankful to be part of this show. Um also, if you haven't already, check out our new show called Ride to the Rink. Uh most episodes are three to five minutes long. We've built this one for your kids. So if you haven't listened to it already, check it out. And we just go through really consumable, kind of bite-sized topics for your kids to listen to on the ride to the rink in a few minutes. Uh, we're really trying to service everybody we can on this show to use hockey as a vehicle for their growth as human beings. And thank you, as always, for all the support. So let's jump into the episode with Tim Cook on Our Kids Play Hockey. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Leah Lias, and I'm joined by two parents who also happen to be award-winning podcasters and people, Mike Benelli and Christy Cassiano Burns. And our guest today, Tim Cook, played at the Hotchist School at the turn of the century when he was invited to the USA National Team Development Program before heading to the Omaha Lancers of the USHL. And in 2003, he became a draft pick for the Ottawa Senators and spent the four years following playing for the University of Michigan, where he won multiple awards in the academic and humanitarian space. Following college, Tim spent time in Europe and the United Kingdom with the Belfast Giants before coming back stateside in 2013 when he spent time working for the New York Islanders and the Pittsburgh Penguins. Today, Tim is an educator and youth hockey coach. It was named the 2019 New Jersey Interscholastic Ice Hockey League Coach of the Year with Montclair Kimberly Academy. That was a mouthful, but I'm glad I said it. He recently wrote a book, Youth Sports, How to Play the Game, a Family Guidebook, which is a fantastic book that helps those involved with hockey develop as people, as much as players. Something we wholeheartedly believe in on this show. Can't wait to dive into that. Tim, welcome to our kids play hockey.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to uh talk with you all and talk about an important topic and you know, not just in hockey. I know your guys' what you all are appreciating is applicable to every single sport and really every single parent. So I'm jacked up to be here.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Hey, we're we're jacked up to have you, Tim. And I'll tell you, like looking through your book, it we're not going to have enough time to cover all the topics we want to cover because uh every single chapter in your book could be an episode of the show. I really mean that. Um, but before we dive into the book, uh you've had quite a hockey journey, uh, and I want to make sure we dive into that because growing up in New Jersey at the turn of the century was a really interesting time for the game. There's a lot of rule changes, uh, the game tactically changed a lot. Uh, what do you think helped you find success in getting to college and some of the other accolades in the game that you found?

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Uh, you know what? I it's interesting. I talk about it in the book a little bit, but I think being a in a uh late bloomer, as they say, really helped me because I didn't have any of the craziness of of tier one until I was a second-year Venom. So until I was about, you know, 14, 15, um, I was just playing. I was a decent player, but um was was nothing special. So um I think that allowed me to really develop my skills and and and not get caught up in where am I in the landscape. I knew I didn't even know the landscape existed, let alone where I was in it. So um it really helped me. My mom didn't put any pressure on me in terms of that. So um, and I was tall, so that helped. And and Lee, you know, you alluded to it back in the day. If you were a tall D-man who could skate, you know, you were gonna get looked at. So that's what really helped me. Um, and then I had a really good coach, a coach named Todd Drevich, who was my first tier one coach, who um was the first one, probably who was like, no, you could play at a high level. Um, and so you know, then I got really lucky. The timing really worked out for me. I went to Hotchkiss. I didn't the coach didn't know who I was. I literally walked on campus and didn't know who I was. Um, and then I was just then two senior defensemen didn't play that year. So me and another freshman, uh Mike Gershan, a good New Jersey player, um, were the only two freshmen on the team. And then, like you said, then I got looked at for the national team. And then I was like, oh, okay, I'm actually like, I can really maybe play here in college, you know, because my dream was always just to play in boarding school and then see what happened. My brother applied to boarding schools as a goalie. Um, so yeah, so I think that the fact that I didn't have the pressure that I think some of our kids have today really, really, really gave me time to develop and not worry about any of the the things that I couldn't control. Um, because if I think if I was worried about that when I was 13 or 14, I don't think I would have had the career I had. Um yeah, so I think time was was was a benefit to me.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

And now that um you've seen how hockey has changed, I bet that was the impetus for writing this book.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, I think it's just it's just that you all talk about this all the time, right? You all see it. So I'm preaching in the choir, but I'll do it anyway. Um it's so monetized, it's so hyper focused, it's so um intense. You know, it was intense when we were coming up, right? But but I'm 39, so but it was more regional and it, you know, obviously social media wasn't a thing, the internet wasn't was barely a thing. Um, so now it's just like it's super, super, super, super focused on the kids, and the kids are aware of it, um, which is the problem. You know, back back in the day, then maybe the even the parents were a little bit um off kilter. Um, when we were coming up, maybe the kids weren't as aware of it. You know, they were in their own bubble. But now they see the rankings, they see the chat boards, they see the social media stuff, they see all this, this, this, this nonsense, to be honest, um, and it affects them negatively. So um I wanted to to put down my thoughts on paper. Hopefully it's beneficial to people and they can see like there's a there's there's another way to think about this. Um, and and also like it's not really a theoretical or a moral um take on it. I I we could talk about all the time like what hockey should be, what youth sports should be, but but it is what it is at the end of the day. So parents, I think, really need to arm themselves and help their kids arm themselves to um correctly look at this and really uh you know, like take it a holistic view. Like, what are we doing this for and what's important about it? And then if we make it fantastic, then then you know you made it. And if you don't, what what lessons can we take from this to um really you know take the benefits of sports, which is why we're all here, right? Why we all care about this, this, this thing.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

Yeah, it it's so funny, you know, that you you just mentioned about your kind of being naive, you know, going through the system. And I think, I mean, honest honestly, I think everyone in that age group up until maybe six years ago, seven years ago is really naive about all of that. I mean, up until I I mean I don't remember even coaching youth hockey in in basically the 2000s, you know, of of where I had to worry about who was playing who and what rankings this person was, and do they have to go to a showcase event and exposure program? And I, you know, just just this past weekend, I I you know, I'm watching a uh 2014s, right? So there are eight and under kids and in a tournament, it's May, by the way, and when we're where we're when we're doing this, it's May in a in a tournament, and the stress level of the parents, and I was just there for another thing. I was I was there to meet somebody um at the rink, and I'm watching the stress levels of these of these four different teams that are in the finals of a Sunday afternoon spring tournament, and the and the amount of stress and the amount of like going outside, taking a breather, going out to their car, coming back, going walking around the rink, like huffing and puffing. And it really is a you know, and you're absolutely right that you can't we we can't put the horse back in the barn, but the bet the best thing we can do is use books like yours to educate um ourselves, really, because I I think the problem like that I've always seen with our podcast is and you you said in what triggered my thought process was you're you're saying, Oh, well, I'm preaching to the choir, and I and the problem is we we all are preaching to the choir. It's like the people that need to hear this or should hear it and and would benefit it the most are the people that don't feel it it's it applies to them. And and I think that gap though is becoming bigger and bigger and bigger. Like the whole idea of my kid making it has changed. Like like I think my parents wanted me to make it that I was alive at 18 and a good friend and that and that I I went and maybe got an opportunity to go to college and and move on with my life. Like that wasn't you know, that was making it, right? I I survived, you know, and and and I think now making it is this this you know ROI on what you do with your kids at six and seven and eight years old. And I think what your book was able to do was parse a lot of that. And I know Lee will get to the different pieces, but you know, parse it out that it's not just one big problem, like it's all little things, and if we can take some pieces of that, maybe we can make our our our children's you know kind of uh experience maybe not less intense, but maybe better for them to to see that there's a big there's a bigger picture around you know leaving the rink and coming in.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Right, and and you you you're absolutely right, and I I see it all the time with parents just obsessed with trying to figure out how to crack the code to raise the the champion children that they know they can do. It it's become an obsession with parents, and and Tim, that's why I'm so glad this book is such a great guide because it just it tells parents stop look at what your kids' potential is, be realistic, uh enjoy this time of the youth sports because it goes so quickly. And if you are obsessed with that, uh I'm gonna raise a champion children, you really are not living in the moment and enjoying what your children are doing every day on a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Bravo, bravo. Couldn't that I mean that's that's the whole theme of the book, what what you what you both just said. Um, and you know, the the people and the the the crazy thing is like the parents who are struggling through this, and I don't want to like, you know, the same way that we all we all we've all been there, right? So we don't want to like castigate them, but you just want to shake them and just be like exactly what we said, like you're losing the most important time of your life, you're losing the most beautiful thing of your life, like your child enjoying themselves, being active, being with uh, you know, people their age, camaraderie, all that type of thing, working together, collaboration, taking criticism from a coach and getting better, like beautiful, right? And and it's it's we're allowing it to get um toxic, right? And sometimes we're a part of that. And that's the scary thing, is when you know we all catch our so that's why I wanted to write the book too, like as a reminder, um, almost to myself, like what's important, you know, what what matters in this whole thing? Um, because we all I get I get like caught up in a New Jersey high school hockey game, and then I'm like, whoa, like what's going on here?

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Like you know the reality, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

We all know that, and like the reality is like statistically speaking, you know, none of those kids are gonna play in the NHL. And even if they are, who like what really matters, right? Right. Um, and and Mike, to your point, like sports is such a beautiful teacher, right? So my mom, I know, wanted me to. I remember I was talking about in the book, like I had a Spring League team. We were 0-20, and my the Monclair team, uh lead to the blues, right? We had a Spring League team that was in it, and but they came in later and I committed to this other team and I wanted to quit. I was like 12 or something. My mom was like, No, no, no, you're in it. Like you told them you're in it, you're in it. Like we're gonna take our lumps this spring, and your friends are gonna win the championship. And then that's it. It was the best lesson I could ever have, right? Because that was it. You don't quit. Like you give your commitment, you don't quit. It's gonna be painful, make the best of it. It is what it is, it's gonna be over, and then you move on. Um, but yeah, I I think uh, and again to Mike and to Lita, what you're talking about, like the segments of it. Um, it can be so convoluted, but when you break it down and be like, what am I doing this for? What value can I get out of it? How what lesson can I teach my kid? Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Um, because yeah, a spring league tournament, you know, uh uh in May and people are getting well you gotta say it right Spring League Super AAA elite showcase tournament for the gifted. Make sure you call it what it is.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Yeah, how many scouts were there, right? I'm sure the NHL scouts were there with their with their like you said it to him in the book, quadruple A. Yeah. It's it's it's nonsense. And like, you know, you know, I what are the most valuable things we have in the world, right? Time, right? Our families, um, our finances, which can be used for whatever we think is important, and we're wasting these things, I think, sometimes um because we're getting blinded by other people who don't know what they're talking about, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Tim, I do want to say this too, and and I this is actually a point I feel like I need to keep reiterating on this show. I am a host on this show, and I have to be reminded of this mostly daily, right? It's one of the reasons I'm so thankful for this show. But but again, Christy's been through it with both her kids. Mike is Mike is in the middle of it, but even with my own kids, I have to be reminded uh daily, just hey, remember what this is, right? Now I'm a pretty intense person, but I'm thinking if I sit on this panel every week, if I'm feeling that, you know, the audience is feeling it too. And that's why I think conversations like this are extremely important because we're not having these conversations. We we always say preaching to the choir, we got to get the choir to sing.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Yeah, right. Yeah, and you know what's what's funny too is and I was thinking about it when Mike was talking, is that like everybody learns this. So the but it usually after your first kid, right? So it's it's the the parents with their first kid who are squirts or peewees and their kids starting to show some some talent, you know, they're the worst because they don't know what's the you know the strings that are that are being pulled, you know, they haven't seen the curtain being pulled. Whereas when a kid when a person's on their third or fourth kid, they're the easy parent because they're like, I know what this whole thing is, right? Right, I know what this whole game is, um, I know it's important. Um, but yeah, we all get caught up, especially, you know, even loved ones I have who who I like gave the book to, or then telling me, oh, we're going to like a I'm like, why are you going to like that tournament? Why are you spending $10,000 on this tournament? Unless, unless it's for like a family reason and it's a vacation and you're doing all cool, cool, cool, cool. We all you have to spend your money on something. Um, but you know, if you think your kid's gonna get seen nine years old, you know, he he or she is not, you know, it's just not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

Yeah, I think I think there's a I think so from my perspective of of being in the in the uh you know the industry is I think it's I think what's happening is and I see it in baseball and certainly in lacrosse and you see it all over the place, like the Cooper's town type of you know mentality of how do I get there. I think I don't think it's so much that that these parents think that like this is the ticket. I think I do feel though that they that they feel that by putting him in these situations early, they can have more control over molding the player into a pro. And and w but then when you talk to pros, none of them got there that way. Like, like they just they they they may have played on those teams, and and we and certainly, I mean, there's no doubt that over the last uh five, six, eight years that you're seeing players get into the NHL that only play hockey. I mean, I know the multi-sport athlete thing is uh is is a is a is a like a you know a nice thing to say, but the fact is these kids aren't there they are multi-sport ability. I mean, they could pick up like they're the type of kids that could do anything and be good at it, but they don't because hockey now has become so centralized and singular, you know, performance. And and so is lacrosse and so is soccer, and so you know, so but I think the the formula now is becoming if I can get my kid in as long as possible and I can hope that they get through the gauntlet of all the other kids that think they're that kid, and at the end my kid can pop out of that of that grouping of elite hockey players.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

At what price?

SPEAKER_04 18:05

Yeah, well, but I don't but I see this is the this is the thing. I think I think statistically we have to look at this and say, what is the price? And and I think the problem is the shining one, the one that comes through, we don't see all the other stuff behind it, but the one that gets through and signs a contract and gets drafted or goes to the the USHL or the BCHL or the or the major juniors or or the NCAA, that one person pops out and everybody does nobody wants to talk about the kids that didn't. And it doesn't matter because every all of us think our kid is that kid. That's the kid that my kid is. And I think that's where and it's really it's very, it's very I mean, I don't think we've even hit the the top of the pyramid of how bad this is yet. Because because the you know, you said it earlier that usually you know we we equate this as it's the people that don't know any better, it's the first-time parents, it's the dad and mom that never played a sport in their whole life. And you know, they come out and they say, Well, I'm gonna buy my son an opportunity to play pro hockey, which is which is crazy. But it's now the problem is it's the people that are established, the people that have played, the people that that have a voice that can say no, but they don't because they they they the money is so big right now that they could just hang their shingle up and they're gonna get it. And I guess the answer is always, well, if I don't do it, somebody else is gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

And and it's it's it's so disheartening to watch people at the highest levels of hockey and great, great hockey people, like great hockey minds not stopping the train. And they can, they could.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Yeah, I I would I would agree with you, Mike. I I think the people at the highest levels aren't actually doing, aren't taking advantage of these people because they don't have to, right? They're actually they're actually the the the coaches and scouts and and and the commentators and whoever. But I agree with you. I think that they do have a responsibility to call it out more and and try to be change leaders because there are, and the only people I talk about in the book who I really you know slander, but I think it's well deserved, are people like you're talking about who are monetizing this who know better, right? Like they know better, you know, and and and maybe they had a little bit of success, but now they're like, all right, I'm gonna try to eat off of it for running this this tournament where a kid gets on the ice for, you know, 10, 15 minutes per game for four games and they're charging this much and they know they're not developing, right? And they're they're calling it all these different things. So they're running these camps. And are the kids actually getting better? Are they getting development? Or is it about let's get as many kids on the ice as possible, let's really uh get our margins up, right? Um, or the the the worst is the the family advisors, right? So the family advisors who, and I think there's some kids who need a family advisor, like John Tavares needed a family advisor at 13 years old, right? Austin Matthews needed a family advisor. Future Hall of Fame NHL players, right? You're a first rounder, you need an advisor, and the player because you actually don't need an advisor because you're gonna get drafted whether or not you have an advisor, which is the hilarious. It's like uh the Kardashians don't need to pay for clothes or could buy anything they wanted, but now they get everything for free, right? It's like the people that actually are getting advisors, um, or should or should maybe don't need them because they're gonna be first round picks anyway. They can play wherever they want, they're just the best players in the world. Um, but the people that you you know, I have players or you know, around that that will get advisors and it'll be like, in my head, why are you getting an advisor? Like you're a club hockey player, maybe, you know, and club, you you know, Lee, like club hockey is good hockey, like very good hockey. There's there's junior hockey players, there's kids right who could be D3 players. Um, it's fast, it's good, it's physical. Um, but why do you you don't need an advisor? You don't need to pay somebody $200, $300 a month, you know. So um, yeah, I think that those people doing that are like, I think it's really, really, really shady and uh and and the wrong thing to do and polluting a beautiful thing that we have in our game. But there's so much money in it, you know. I don't know what the answer is to it.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

Well, and I think and I think in a lot of ways, you know, I know like what the the way I work too is I like, well, maybe I need to be involved so I can help stem that a little bit. Like, like you somebody's got to do it, right? And somebody's going there there, and and the problem is too, there is only that. Like there isn't there isn't house league tournaments, there isn't in-house development clinics. They they they and those people they have the just as much money as anybody, maybe more, because they actually have money left, is is as any of these lead hockey players. But the market, like that's why I always look at it from a perspective of a rink owner. And I'm like, if I'm a rink owner, why would I want to at least triple A hockey parents that want to spend their money going across the country? They should spend their money with me.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

I want to say too that you know, it's funny, we have seen, I'm not I'm not negating your point. We have seen organizations like this, but they're looked at almost as a charity organization like Snyder Hockey or Hockey and Harlem.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

They do exist, but we look at the best program, yeah, but you're actually the best model to be in.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah, and like again, we've we've seen it, Tim. We've had we've had uh leadership from both of those organizations on, and they run their organizations incredibly well. And and and Mike, as you said, from just from a business standpoint, because people Said oh, they don't make money, they do better, they do better and they get kids to college for academics. Imagine that, right? And then hockey on top of it. And you know, Tim, I wanted to bring this up too. You you said this earlier in the episode, um, and you reminded me of this. You and I are the same age, and when when you and I were growing up, double A was the top level, right? Triple A was kind of reserved for tournaments, right? And you you started to see it. And then I remember when I graduated high school, that was the year after I graduated, the first junior team came to town. And I remember thinking, well, this is weird how it's expanding. Because when I was growing up, it was you played high school, maybe you went to prep school, you know, maybe you went to college, but we were so excited just to play hockey after high school, you know, regardless of the level. But the same uh things applied. If you wanted it more than anybody else, you were gonna succeed. Like these haven't changed over the years, right? Um, if you were willing to put the time in, you were probably gonna succeed. It more than just hockey, right? There were no training aids when you and I were growing up. We had to figure it out, right? And I and like you, I played B till I was probably 14 or 15. Then I sprouted mainly because of puberty, but then I sprouted, right? And I found a love for the game that I didn't know existed. So a lot of these things I think give us a unique perspective as we kind of have seen both sides of this. And uh, we talked about this on the show recently, how what we're seeing today is incredibly, incredibly talented players that don't really know the tactical side of the game at all. Right. So there's an imbalance. But look, I want to I want to jump into the book um because we we have uh only so much time today. Um I've got three uh three chapters earmarked here, but let's get through them the fastest we can. Before we even do that, everybody listening, this book is really great because it's got bite-sized chapters. There's a lot of them in there. Um, and it's something you can read in a few minutes or for a few hours, depending on where you're at. Uh Tim, I applaud you for that because a lot of books today are very long and grandiose, and it's like, oh, this chapter's 30, 30 pages, and not this one. Every chapter is really consumable with really great facts and really good action items at the end. Um, so so first a great job on that, because I think we need more things like that. Um, thank you, right? Uh let's just let's just go to chapter 30 here in the book. I have uh Christy, I've got my journalism hat on. I've got my little notes here. All right. Chapter 30 is titled, uh, we were just talking about this the use of the term elite or tier one does not truly mean that the club is top quality. All right. And I uh I'm going to that right now because I have this earmark, like I said.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, I got the crazy hacky parent one earmark because I really want to get into that.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

I I will, you know what? You go next. I'm on this one right now. I'm obviously not gonna read the chapter, but what I love about this, Tim, is that uh like I said, at the end of X, every title, every chapter, excuse me, there's a little bit of an exercise. And you give these great steps for inspecting a club, which I wish more parents and teams would take. All right. And again, I'm gonna tease this. If you want more, but go buy the book, obviously. But it says here step one, if possible, ask the club leadership questions along the lines of what is the development model? What teams are in the typical game schedule, and how often and far is travel? Do players typically ascend the entire organizational structure? These are great questions. Have many players eventually reached the higher level of sport? What is the organizational mission? Everyone should be asking that. You shouldn't be afraid to ask that. Is your player ready for that level? How are coaches sourced, retained, educated? Mike, you love that one. What is the all-in price, fee, equipment, apparel, extra clinics, travel costs? How far is the home rink and are there penalties for absence due to school or family conflicts? That's just step one. There's four steps here. Again, I don't want to give it all away. But the idea is great questions demand great answers. I'm a big believer in that. You should never join an organization without asking questions. And this man has given you the blueprint for it for just that topic. So, Tim, let's just quickly, you know, where what was your process for kind of coming to those conclusions? Because everything written in this book is based on something, it's not just the top of your head.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So Lee, like you were talking about and and and and everybody on the call, like I've seen it from as a player. And now, and then I was uh um a hockey director for the Pittsburgh Penguins Elite, which is a triple A program in in Pittsburgh. Um, under the Penguins Banner, it runs at a UPMC, which is a Penguins practice facility. It's a great, great program. Um, and now I'm a coach, right? So I've seen it from all different angles. I had a family advisor, I had an agent. So um I've I've really been able to look at it from different perspectives and be like, what do I wish I had known? What do I wish I would have asked? And those are things that I wish I would have asked. Um, like I didn't know when I went to Omaha in the USHL, I didn't know that there were scratches. I had no idea. So I showed up, right? And there's eight D. And I'm going around this guy's a D, this guy's a D, this guy's a D. All right. Um, and then you know, I and I was a younger part of 17. So, you know, I played like 45 out of 60 games, right? So, but I remember the first time I got scratched, I'm like, what do you like? What am I? I'm sitting in the stands. You know what I mean? We're in Nebraska, right? Exactly. Oh my god, I'm in Nebraska. Um, and you know that and that was a big thing that I wish my mom had known and we had asked and been like, all right, yeah, you you're recruiting me, but like where am I at in your depth chart? Like, am I gonna play every game? Am I gonna play a lot? Am I gonna be on the power play? We were just like, Yeah, we're in, let's go. It's you know, they're turning out division one players. So um, but I wanted to see it from a youth perspective and be able to put it into a way like you were talking about, Lee, like a way that parents could actually be like, all right, what's important to me? You know, write that down. What's important to my family, what I want my kid to know. Um, and then does this organization align with those values or not? Right. And not just get caught up in like they've got the best uh gear, they've got a super cool brand, they've got a, you know, yeah, they won the championship at this tournament or that tournament. It's like, what does any of that mean? What does it any of that matter? Right. Um, so yeah, so that that's so that's what I really wanted people, and exactly like you mentioned, like the actionable items.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Can can I, as a follow-up, this is actually for everybody, right? If you're afraid to ask those questions, or you ask those questions and the person you're asking is offended, you kind of have your answer. Yep. That's a huge red flag, right? No, uh, Mike is a huge proponent of this. He wants people to ask those questions, right? Yeah. And yes, they're mildly uncomfortable questions, but who cares, right? Like any most questions worth asking are right.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

And we have seen that on our college hockey when we were um, you know, when Sophia was being recruited, and we would go to these different programs and different colleges. And my husband would always ask the tough questions, and they would just stop talking and just turn to me and wouldn't answer it. And then John's like, okay, we're done with this, because they wouldn't answer his tough questions, just ignore them. So yeah, don't be afraid to ask. And if they're shy about answering it, yeah, those red flags should be going up. There's something wrong there.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Yeah. Well, I think I think the I think the best programs now you're seeing too that are taking this type of advice are coming out with that information and front there and center. They're not afraid of it. They're not, they're not hiding it. They want to actually use it as an advantage over other programs. Like you should say, we have 85% of the kids that come into our eight you program graduate from our 16U program. Did you know that we're not gonna, you know, you know, we're not gonna change our uniforms every year? Uh, you know, we're we're we're gonna, you know, we're having we do a team skate, you know, discount. We do our ice time is allocated uh fairly and it rotates through a basis of not what A, B, or C team you're on, but based off of age group and based off of availability. Like all these little things can be very clear and transparent in this day and age. It's like you know, you could have 18,000 web pages for free, basically, on your website. You know, make these things available, let parents see that checklist, and that's the program you want to go after. Again, if you're not just looking for a letter and you're not looking for, you know, I mean, I I don't know if anybody asks, like, oh, it like we are we because they're not gonna post that, right? We're an organization that will play the most away games of any organization in the country, and we will be on four planes. Like, nobody's saying that, right? Because people would that's kind of weird. I'm not gonna do that. Why would I go on four plane trips with my kid? I don't even go on vacation with my kid, like right. So, you know, so where you know, where where can we, you know, where can we uh that that those are all great questions, and I think the red flag piece is just like we would do if we went to a school, like right? We ask a school, like how many of your kids graduate from this school? That's a great analogy. Oh, that's great. Maybe that's probably not great.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

That's we have a 20% graduation rate. Oh good, good.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Exactly. You need to look at the fine print and don't be clouded when you're you gotta have a clear vision because they're gonna throw a lot of bells and whistles at you, man. They're gonna they're gonna sell their program and tell you everything that you you want to hear. Yeah, um, but but don't be afraid to, hey, well, you know, what about how many games do you play? And do you change, you know, is this gonna cut how much is this gonna cost me? Yeah, you know, ask, ask, ask.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

Yeah, and I think exactly to to everybody's point, like it, I I couldn't uh uh say it any clearer. Like if the person's offended by the question, then then there's a reason, right? So and I think the only question that I would say, like, don't ask, or it's not even a you can ask any question, right? I as a coach, you can ask me any question. You're because you're not demanding it. So even if you're saying, like, where does my player fit in the depth chart? Like, are they gonna be a first-line player? Are they gonna be on the power play? You're not saying I want my kid to be on the power play. You're just saying, like, you know, things change, it's all good, it changes, but looking at who you have coming in, is my player gonna play? Because if they're not gonna play, they're not gonna develop. So that's a good question to ask, right? To be like, do you think they're gonna be slotted in? And then they have to perform and they have to play well and they have to be coaching and all those types of things, right? Um, but yeah, and and like you were talking about it, Chris, here earlier. I can't remember who said it, but it's like school, right? Like I teach, right? So, and I teach at an independent school, private school, and parents are well aware that they're paying so that they need if you you need you as a teacher, you got to answer answer questions. You don't have to tell them what they want to hear, but you have to be there to communicate and be like, this is what I'm gonna provide for your child, this is what I think is important, this is how they're gonna develop as a student. Um, and it's the same thing with these programs, like we're paying, you know, we're we're paying tens of thousands of dollars at times. You're allowed to have these conversations for sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

And you should. And and and just on that note, just a side note we always say here, we really wish more teams, uh, and you do see this in in some prep schools uh and and places where higher education is important. I wish I wish teams would post more where kids went to college, whether they played or not. Just the academic success. We we we have seen this in Snyder hockey, we have seen this in hockey in Harlem, uh, I'm sure at MKA where where you teach, it's very important because that's that is a very good school that prides itself on education. Um, it look this is just a final thought on this. You know, there's a great book by Simon Sinek called The Infinite Game. All right. And I don't think enough hockey organizations take the approach, which is make your organization last forever if you can. And the way you do that is through honesty, through integrity. And I think if more programs would take that approach, honestly take that approach of like we're not for everybody. This is exactly what we are. I think not only will they make more money, but they'll actually last longer, they'll make more success. I a child developing into a better human being and hopefully a hockey player is a success, no matter what they make. I don't care if it's a B team or the NHL. That is the success. We have completely lost sight of that, unfortunately. And it's devastating.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Lee Lee, I like what you're saying there too, because I think there's nothing wrong, in my opinion, with AAA hockey for the right kids and the right families, right? In the right situation. I think it's great. I think that the the set the sad thing is when you see a kid who should be in A hockey playing triple A because they needed to fill out that roster and they needed that tuition, right? And that kid's getting their head taken off, right? They're never making a play, they are completely shell-shocked in the game. They might they're sitting on the bench. It's like, what's the point of this? Right. But for the kids who are ready for it, I think it's a beautiful thing. I think let's go, let's be, you know, steel sharpened steel, let's be challenged. Um, but you know, we've all seen it, like how watered down is triple A hockey. It's disgusting, right? It should there should be like depending on the state, like 10, 15, 20 teams, maybe, but there's 50 teams in in certain states, they're not, they shouldn't be there.

SPEAKER_04 35:51

Yeah, but and I think that's the buyer, right? The buyer needs to demand those answers. The buy if I'm the buyer, if I'm the if I'm the parent and and uh and uh and I'm uh and I have a coach, what I love like the last couple of years, I've been really fortunate to have my kids play for coaches that are very honest. Like just like, okay, where's it where they fit in? Oh, they're they they this is who they are, and I don't get offended by that. I'm like, well, I try like so. I use the analogy like if I trust you enough to go to your tryout and want to play on your team, then I should trust you enough to give me an opinion about how you think my who my kid is. Like, so if you're going to prep school, you're going to college, that coach is gonna sit down and say, you know, it's not in their best interest to tell you you're gonna be their star player because you're not. Like you look around and go, Well, I'm not the star player. Uh, I see these other guys are all drafted. Like I'm not, I know I'm not your star player, but if you can say, hey, listen, here's our path, here's what we're gonna do for you, here's how we're gonna watch you and mentor you and be with you, and then you're you, you're you human being, you're you're you are gonna have to now drive this, but we're gonna give you the path to get there. But you have to do the work.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Mike, Mike.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

When parents can hear that, and then and then and then it becomes a partnership of player, parent, and and coach, and that's how true development happens. Not not the other way around. Not like, well, I paid you to make my kid better, so why isn't he a triple A player? I'm like, I don't know. You know, you're five three and your wife is five two.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Here here's an here's a mentality that I I know it was a mentality I share. I remember uh my attitude, and I know a lot of people share this, was I didn't want to be the star player when I joined the team. I actually wanted to be on the bottom rung, but when I left the team, I wanted to be the star player. That was always my my drive, right? Like I want to be one of the bottom players when I start, and by the end of the season, I'm gonna outwork everybody and be one of the top players every year, right? I mean, I mean, outside maybe some spring and summer fun leagues, that's what I wanted because I knew I was gonna grow. And I said, So again, we've got to leave behind the status of triple A and being able to. I see parents, what team did your kid make? Oh, he only made the A team. Like, that's a bad when I was growing up, that was a that was awesome. You made an A team, right? You know, I only made the A team. Your verbiage is important. I proudly say both my kids are on B teams this year, and they should be because they're developing. It's I have no problem with it.

SPEAKER_04 38:09

Yeah, not with the fact that they're active and they're not sitting on a couch. Like, I mean, I just the whole idea that they're up and out and doing something, and there's somebody inspiring them to come to the rank, develop, get better, want to be with their teammates, have all the things that that you know Tim was just talking about about uh learning all those other qualities of being in a locker room. That's why we all put our kids in sports. I I I can't imagine like I don't unless you're you know King Williams, right? You're not putting your kid in sport for an end game. But but but we all we we're all guilty of like the okay, what is the end game? I don't know what the end game is. My end game is to get through the weekend and then to know my kid just loved being where he was, and then and he didn't get bullied and he didn't bully somebody, and and they had and he loved being around the people he's around, and that there was a coach in there that was a true mentor, you know, great role model, and a person that put a smile on his face. Like that to me is and then all the other stuff happens, all the other stuff takes care of itself. If you inspire kids, if they have it in their ability, like Lee was saying, if you're good enough, the adage in 1930 and then today, if you're good enough, you're gonna get found. If you if you have the passion and the drive, you're going to you're going to succeed. Whether you succeed at the at the pinnacle of the sport is all based off of a lot so many different factors that none of us can control, that you just get handed to. And then you but then you have to put your kids in the right environment to to to blossom now. What do they say? Like if a flower is dying, you don't, you know, you know, you don't kill the flower, you you cultivate the soil. Like you just environment. You change, you know, you just so and I think that's what most parents don't do. They keep trying to put their kid in. Well, if they play triple A, if I could just get them on that triple A team, they could be a triple A player.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

It's never about the kid, right? It's about it.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

It's very often, most, I don't want to say always, but more often than not, it goes the other way. The the the divide becomes bigger and bigger and bigger. And it's so sad that parents like the the the best thing I love hearing is when I have a 18 uh 16-year-old player, and the dad says, Oh, well, my kid played on that team when he oh, he started with that team. I go, when? You know, when he was six, he was on that, he was on that uh triple A, you know, little Caesars franchise team. Yeah, but he's a he's 16 now. He hasn't been on that team, he hasn't been on that team in 10 years. Yeah, like so like that was the pinnacle of their of their hockey life. And and to me, it's like, well, let's let's let's let's tone down the levels and then put your kid in a place where they can flourish. And then I I'm I haven't seen it yet that a kid that's able to flourish is going to flourish.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Mike, I like to think I haven't reached my pinnacle yet. Keep going, yeah. Keep going.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

All right. So I want to get into this. Um we've all established we're all big fans of transparency, which is great. We are not fans of something that Tim addresses in chapter 25. And I'm gonna just say the title because it's just brilliant. You ready? If you cannot spot the crazy parent in the stands, it is because you are that person. Drop the mic, Tim, on that title. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Yeah, so you know, I stole that from the poker adage, right? If you're at the poker table and you can't spot the sucker, you're the sucker. Um, and and it's crazy, like you know, you'll talk to some parents and they'll say, Oh, can you believe that you know John Smith over there is talking about this and wants to go on this, all these different tournament teams, and you know, is saying that their son should be on the power play. And in my head, I'm going, Yeah, that you do that. Like you do that all the time, right? You're the one who's always saying the coach is making a mistake, my son's or daughters getting, you know, politics, politics, why they didn't make it. Um, yeah, I think it's important, right? Like we said, to be transparent and to be introspective. We all need to, and we've talked about at the beginning of the podcast that you know, we all get caught up in the moment because we're humans, right? And we're all competitive. And why you all have had success in your lives is because you're competitive and you work hard and you want to win and you want to be successful. Um, those things are great, right? But like all things they can become negative if we if we drink too much of it, right? Everything in moderation. So yeah, I think it's important for parents to really analyze um what they're doing at the rink, who they're hanging out with, right? Are they the if if you hang out with four people who are doing one thing, you're gonna be the fifth doing that thing. So if you're at all engaged in that activity, right? Uh talking about the coach or other players or other parents or whatever, um, you know, it's it's it's negative, right? We breed into that. And it infects us, right? We can't really be around that stuff without getting infected.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

So, you know, like it can become very toxic, you're right. Totally, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

And you know, you can only fight it for so long until you we all like read, oh, I I'm saying talking bad about somebody else. Why am I don't I don't want to be that person? So yeah, I think and and we've all seen it, right? We've seen the videos of parents like fighting in the stands and people have died in the stand, like fighting in the parking lot, and you're like, you're fighting over like a 10-year-old hockey game.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

And not just videos. I mean, I've seen it in person. Yeah, yeah. What's also helpful is at the end of the chapter, you've got an exercise that parents can walk through to be the change that they want to see. Super helpful.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Yeah, yeah. And that's what I try to do with every chapter, almost every chapter, is to be like, all right, here's here's here's my take on it, right? Here's what I see is not perfect, it's just my perspective. And then here's how you can uh incorporate this into your life if you think it's important, and if you don't, disregard it and keep moving. But hopefully they take away a few things that can be like, all right, this is how I can actually um help my child be successful in in youth hockey and youth sports at large.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Right. And and I think parents don't realize sometimes your baggage gets attached to the kit. And I have seen teams where a kid is on the bubble whether or not to make a team, and the coaches will say, Oh, but those parents, let's take the other kid because the other kid's parents are just too much to handle. And we don't want that. We don't want that on our team. And you could actually end up hurting your kid, especially if you've developed a reputation of being loud and obnoxious and not helpful. You could cost your kid an opportunity to play on a really good team because of your behavior.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Yeah, we see it all the time. I played with a guy at Michigan, Chad Cleric, who's the assistant coach in the national team, and then my teammate at Michigan, Brandon Nerado, is now the head coach at uh the University of Michigan. And they those I was talking about a couple of players, and that's the second question they asked. The first question they asked is like, can they skate? Can they play? Uh, you know, are they a difference maker? And then the second one was, What's what's the family like? What's the parent like? Because you're totally right, Chrissy. Like, there's so many players. So if it's close and one family's like great family, integrity, good people, will just show up and and support the team, you know, never say a crossword again, no matter what, even if you scratch the kid or they want you. Right, they want you to discipline the kid in a in an effective and age appropriate way because you they know what you're doing for them is so valuable. Not saying, like, why are you sitting down? My kid, I'm sitting in exactly past the buck and he doesn't listen, and he's negative attitude, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 45:29

So um so yeah, just another incentive, parents. If you think your behavior doesn't matter, it does matter. Scouts are watching.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Scouts are watching you if your kid is good enough to get scouted, they're they're gonna look at you too.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

I'm gonna say this too. This is something I've learned coaching, it's something I've learned from psychology. Kids crave discipline, they will never ask for it ever. Sometimes they will challenge it, but they crave it, right? And and I think the the best coaches and parents work together to understand that. And as we've discussed on the show a million times, kids will mostly listen to not their parents when it comes to that, right? It's always easier to coach someone else's kid than your own kid because they naturally fight it. But um, I you know, I think that Christy, to your point, that cooperation between parent and coach, and a coach knowing, hey, I can talk this. Look, I see this all the time with with my kids' teachers, right? And again, Tim, Tim, you understand this, right? Like when I I can't tell you the relief on a teacher's face when I have like my parent-teacher conference and and they can see, no, we actively want to help you do whatever you need to do to you know, make sure my kid is doing his work, disciplined or her work. And they just sit back, like, thank you for saying that, because so many parents blame the teacher. Well, why aren't you doing a better job? You know, easy conference.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

I love I love that. Lee, you can be my in my class any day, your kids.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Right. Well, I I uh my wife would love to move back up to northern Jersey, but yeah, we're still in Philly for now. Uh look, we got about 10 minutes left. I want to, I got two more chapters. I hope we can get through both of them. One of them is a hot topic on this show, and then the last one's gonna be about mental fitness, which I know is a top topic topic for everybody here. But chapter 42. Um, and I'm actually gonna read a little bit here. It says, a skills coach cannot make a player score more goals or want it more. And the passage that I highlighted here, and I think everyone should listen to this. The real benefit of a skilled coach, in my opinion, is identifying strengths and enhancing those by trying to turn weaknesses into manageable deficiencies. That is so true. And I'm gonna use an NHL example of this. There's a player some of you might have heard uh called uh Alex Ovechkin. He's a pretty good player. Uh, he's probably gonna be the greatest goal scorer in the history of the NHL, he really already is. And I remember, Tim, I'm sure you remember this too, Mike Christie. His first few years in the game, he did okay. But the Capitals were horrible. The team didn't start winning until a coach came in and just let Ovechkin play his game. And then suddenly the Caps were a playoff team every year after that because they just let him play. They didn't try and hold him back, didn't try and have him play only D. Again, he when they won the cup, he was playing two-way hockey. I'll say that. But my point is that you want to enhance what's great about your player, not just focus on what's bad. All right. And I I would love for you to dive into that for a minute because I think that's just great advice.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

Yeah, yeah. And you know, they say drummers got to drum, right? So that's in the book too. I read it. There you go. There's nothing wrong with being a grinder, there's nothing wrong with being a very good penalty kill specialist. Um, not everyone's gonna be a goal scorer. I was certainly not, right? And um, and if and if I had a skills coach who was like, oh, we're gonna work with you over the summer and we're gonna turn you into uh a power play specialist at the NCAA division one level and then in high levels of pro, um, they would have been lying because that's not possible, right? So there's just certain things you cannot teach, in my opinion. You can't teach goal scoring. You can teach where to go on the ice, you can teach how to get open, you can teach how to have a harder shot, you can teach how to get your head up when you shoot. But that nose for the net that we see players have, you either have that or you don't. So if you don't have it, that's all good, right? Work on what you can actually achieve and get better at to be a player that your coach wants to put you in.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

So, some great quick examples of this. I I remember growing up, man, I wanted to be Eric Lindross. The problem is I'm not 6'5 and 220 pounds, and I was never gonna be. But I could pass the puck. And I had a great coach really helped me get great at becoming a playmaker, and that became my thing. Parents listening. I cannot tell you as a coach, Tim, you're gonna like this, Mike, you're gonna like this, Christy. I cannot tell you the value of a winger who knows how to get the puck out of the zone. Well, not just throw it out. Artist play, right? It's a skilled play that some people can do, some people can't. Passing ability, playmaking ability is a you know what great goal scorers love? Someone who can pass them the puck, right? Defensive ability, understanding awareness in front of the net, reading the play. There's so many little intricate things about the game. And don't get me wrong, you have to have a lot of tools in your toolbox. You can't just be a one-play person, but the ability to see those aspects and be great. Or adversely, if you're on a team and you have five great goal scorers and that's not you, be somebody else that you're supposed to be. Be the playmaker, be the great, be the great two-way forward. You know, I remember Tim telling young kids when I was coaching in Europe, where you played too, right? My third and fourth line players, well, what do you want me to do? I want you not to be a liability. I want you to be a strong, defensive, offensive player where I know I can put you out and I'm not gonna get scored on. And the the people, the players that understood that and and and dove into that role, man, they did great. Right? The ones that said I should be a goal scorer, they didn't stay long. Yeah, maybe they did develop into that someplace else. It wasn't gonna be our team. Yeah, but I just that's the seed I'm trying to plant for parents is that if you know your kid has the aptitude for something, enhance that, right? Especially if it's goal scoring, right? Like, even if that's their stick. So just great advice there.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Yeah, yeah. And Lee, I'll just say this before you know, before we move on to the next one, is that you you see it at the higher levels, like Sam Bennett, right? We were watching the playoffs right now, the Florida Panthers, right? He was a fourth overall pick. So he's coming into the show. He's like, I'm gonna be a goal scorer, I'm gonna make $10 million a year, I'm gonna be the all-star. He's not that for whatever reason, right? So he's objects, adjusted his game to be a more, he's still a skilled player, he still makes plays, but to be a more agitator, physical player, right? Bring that energy. Um, but if he tried to be that player that he thought he would be at one point, he would not be who he is, right? He could potentially not be in the NHL because he wouldn't be effective, right? So if it's good enough for Sam Bennett, who's making millions of dollars, it's good enough for your 13-year-old, right, to say, like, what's my role going to be? And also at the same point, like you know, you were talking about development. Like, yes, I want that player to continue to try to be the better player and to work on it and to always shoot for that. But at the end of the day, you need to be realistic about what am I gonna be and how am I gonna how can I accentuate those strengths while also like continuing to get better at the other things, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:54

And I'll say too, the the greatest players probably in history have this ability to adapt. I mean, Steve Eiserman comes to my mind right away. Yeah, Steve Eiserman, for those who don't remember, was an amazing goal scorer, but it's when he learned from Scotty Bowman to be a two-way player that they started winning all those cups, right? Or Michael Jordan's a great example. He's putting up what 40, 50, 60 points a game when the Bulls were losing.

unknown 52:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Once he started playing both ways, and he still put up a lot of points, they won all those championships, right? Um, again, Tim, in the interest of time, this is just an important chapter I have to bring up for all of us. Chapter 26. Um, maybe the most important one we talked about today. It's titled Listen to what your player is telling you, even when they are not speaking, your child's sense of worth may depend on it. And the the quick uh passage I wanted to read, and I and this is so crucial, is the development of self-worth is a crucial part of maturation. If each part of our identity is not fully matured at all age-appropriate stages, it is very difficult to repair later in life. Rudolph says that the developmental theory suggest the children's sense of self-worth emerges from an internalization of the views of significant others. That's us, that's parents, that's coaches, and the people around them. We we talk about self-worth, we talk about confidence, we talk about self-esteem on this show all the time. If you're not actively focused on that, I don't know what to say. You're gonna have major problems, your kids are gonna have major problems, they're gonna get post-hockey and have major problems, or they might not even make it to the end of hockey. They might just quit. We just talk on that for a few minutes about how important it is to focus on a kid's self-esteem as much as they're playing.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Right. And and how often do you talk to your kid about it without going overboard? Because you don't want to hit them over the head with all these important lessons, and you don't want it to be, you know, they're thinking about it all the time. So what's the right balance, Tim?

SPEAKER_02 53:45

Yeah, I think never never miss a teachable moment, right? Never miss a teachable moment. So I I think about that as a teacher and a coach, and now as a parent, is is like, what can my kid get out of this? But I also don't want to overload them exactly like you said, Christine, because you, you know, they're they're gonna turn you out at a certain point, right? So, but there's gonna be things are gonna come up that I'm gonna be able to say, like, we don't act like that, that's negative. Um, and you can never miss that because you know, permitting is promoting. So if you uh allow like bullying to go on, obviously, we all know that, like the the dangers of that, right? But even like little comments about other people and you hear it and you're like, I don't want to address it because it's gonna be awkward, it's gonna be a pain in the neck. And then you're like, no, I have to, right? If I don't, I'm gonna miss this moment. And potentially this kid's gonna think that I think it's acceptable because maybe they know that I heard it. Um but yeah, I think, and Mike, you talked about it with the with the with the Spring League tournament, right? With the parents, they're stressing out and their kids can feel that, right? The kids can feel that. So instead of it all being a positive experience, and we're gonna go, we're gonna have a great time, we're gonna play hard, whatever happens. I'm not gonna get mad at you if you don't score a goal, right? We're gonna enjoy the the experience. The kids are picking up that that negativity and that toxicity and taking it away with them. Chris, you talked about it, you know, how the parents can negatively impact whether their kid gets selected, but their parents, what is therapy all about, right? Like 90% of therapy, like your mom and your dad, right? Like let's talk about mom. Um, so if that was the relationship that you had growing up, that you're being forced to do something you don't want to do, or you're you're thinking that your parents want you to be better than you actually are, or you feel that your worth as a human being is tied up with some externality, like some extracurricular activity that maybe you don't want to do, or maybe you can't do, or maybe you feel like you're gonna fail at. Those are some really heavy, heavy things, right? That our kids are are dealing with at a time that their brain is not fully developed in order to be able to deal with it. So um, you know, Lee, you you did a great synopsis at the beginning of when we started talking about this chapter, like the the power that we have, the responsibility we have as adults around young people and making sure that they know that they're much more than a hockey player, a lacrosse player, or a violinist or whatever, and that their worth is not connected to that. It's just something we do, right? It's something we have to do something and let's do this. It's fun and it'll teach us some lessons. And but but they are more than enough. And you know, even though we think that, right? Like if you told that to a parent, like you are making your kid feel bad about themselves, the way you're acting, they would be crushed, right? But they don't understand necessarily that their words or even their body language has such power to a child, right? So um sometimes it's too late when they actually realize that.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

What is the power as a parent of just telling your kid I want you to be a good person? And then how many of us actually say that? That's it, right? And and it goes such a long way. I'll I'll just say this, Tim and Philip. You know, statistics show that, you know, because I think a lot of parents stand off going, well, my kid won't want to talk to me. Just to put this out there, statistics show that if your kid is in real mental strife, they will answer you. All right. The the statistics show that if your kid is seriously, you know, depressed and considering horrible things, I'll just put it that way, they will speak to you if you ask them because they want to. They're actually waiting for you to ask. It's the parents who don't ask or don't approach their kids that tend to have problems. But you know, I have these moments all the time with my kids, and even my parents now who are elderly, of I'll think something in my head of thought, and it'll I'll tell myself you should call your mom right now and say that. Like I want my mom to know I feel this way about her. Same thing with my kids. I want my kid to know, hey, I love you and I'm proud of you. It it goes so much further than we realize, and not enough people do it. This is generally in day your life too. Like we would say, thank you, Barista, right? We don't do that enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

Well, this is the last thing I'll I'll you know, I'll get off my soapbox on it uh after this.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Oh no, the the show is your soapbox today, sir.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

That's what we're here for. Your guys' show, and why I love what you all are doing is it's it's hockey is just the vehicle, right? And we could be doing anything, we could be playing tiddlywinks, and we could be learning lessons from it and learning how to interact with each other and how to deal with each other and how to be kind and how to you know stay focused and develop and and work through trials and tribulations. So hockey is just the vehicle that we've all chosen for whatever reason that we like, we think it's fun. Um, but it's really life lessons, right? So and and I agree, Lee, too, about the your kids are they want to talk to you even if they don't show it, right? And and I talk about it a lot as a teacher, like the slow burn, right? There, I think it was, I can't remember Lou Holtz or what coach was. They were saying, Oh, you have a great group of players. And he said, I'll show you in 20 years. If I'll tell you in 20 years that they're a great group of players, so that's what it is, right? It's like what I'm saying to you right now is if I'm talking to a child, they I say it all the time, like you'll understand when you're older. I just want to give it to you right now, even if you don't get it. And then when when they're third, when they're my age, right? I I go, I understand what that coach is saying, right? I understand why they did that. Like you said, the discipline, they they were trying to help me learn that actions have consequences. And right now it's just it's it's a safe thing where we can learn how to that actions have consequences in the realm of hockey, so that hopefully they don't have to learn it when they're 40 and they're married and they have a job. And if they lose that job or make a mistake and you know the marriage crumbles, like they can learn it in a safe space, and then when the things really matter, they they they have those things ingrained. So again, that's my that's the end of my soapbox.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Fantastic take. And again, unfortunately, Tim, we're out of time, but again, unbelievably fantastic episode. But before we we go and give final thoughts, uh, if you're listening, the book is called Youth Sports, How to Play the Game, a Family Guide Book by Tim Cook. I'm holding it up for those of you watching right now. It's on Amazon. It is an excellent read. And I'm gonna say it one more time. It's extremely consumable. Uh this these are these are just great reminders. They're chapters you'll read over and over again. And I probably the best part, Tim, as Christy said, is these actionable items at the end. Um I mean, they really make us critically think. Um and and again, I have a feeling we're gonna borrow topics from this book for the show. Please do. Uh yeah, yeah, we'll have you on again. Uh uh, Mike, Christy, any final words before I close it out?

SPEAKER_00 59:45

No, this book is really, it truly is a great family guidebook. It's so well researched as well as well written. Um, and you're gonna relate to so many of these chapters. You're gonna say, Oh my gosh, I'm in this situation right now. What do I do? Here's what to do. It'll kind of help you, you know, find your way and and and leave and be on a better path. It'll it'll put you in the right direction. So, Tim, thank you so much for writing this and for reaching out to us because um it's gonna help a lot of families.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:21

Yeah, I'll let go, I'll echo both these guys. Just Tim, it's just I think it's it's uh it's great to have that you know concise ability to look in and say, oh geez, you know, I I I I have a little, you know, I I love taking like the snippets that like you write. Uh Christy's book was great too. Like just having the little like little things that you can say to a parent. Like if you give him like the little lead, uh there, you know, there's another book out, like Pee-Wees, it's a life, you know, a year in the life of Pee-Wees, uh, like Cohen's book, yeah. Yeah, and then he's great. And I I love taking like just the one, like the one line of it that I can bring to a parent, like, oh yeah, I just read about that. You know, you should read that book. You know, just like, hey, this would be a good book for you to to look up. But I and I'm not saying like you need it, but you probably should read it. But I think it's I think it's they're really they're really great little ways that we can um slowly, you know, get into uh our parents, you know, without without so much like calling them out. And you know, and having, I don't know, it's a good book to have. Probably every ring should have it laying on the laying on the counter, you know, at at the pro shop. So when you're waiting for your skates to get sharpened, you get the get the thumb through it or something. But I think it's just uh always great reminders. It's great to have you on, you know, just again reinforcing uh the stuff that we talk about all the time. And I guess that the mission, the mission now is you know, how do we get outside that circle and uh you know, you know, reach the people that really that really I think need it for their kids more than anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

Yeah. Thank you all for taking the time to to to to read the book and uh to hype it up. I really appreciate it. And to talk, yeah. I think what you all what you all are doing is really important. Um, and I think it's it's valuable, right? And I think that's kind of what the point of life is to have a valuable, purposeful life. And and uh what you all are doing is is really helpful to uh whether it reaches a hundred thousand or a million or ten million, or you know what I mean? It's it's it's it it helped me to talk to you all today. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

No, thank you, Tim. You've been a fantastic guest. We'll have to have you back on again for a future discussion. But that is gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Remember, you can hear all of our episodes at our kidsplayhockey.com. Uh, and make sure you jump on that website and uh join our Facebook group, Our Kids Play Hockey. It's a private group. You have to answer two questions or yes or no questions to get in. But the conversations kind of continue there. We've had a lot of people joining that over the last few weeks. So for Tim Cook, Christy Cash, Anna Burns, and Mike Vinelli, I'm Leah Lias. Make sure to pick up your copy of Youth Sports, How to Play the Game, a family guidebook by Tim Cook. Just search for that online, you'll find it right away. And we'll see you on the next edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Take care, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, ourkidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, and When Hockey Stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. Thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. And we'll see you on the next episode.