Aug. 19, 2023

Applying Lessons Learned At The Rink To Parenting with John Boruk

In this episode, we delve into legendary sportscaster John Boruk's remarkable journey in the world of hockey and how he seamlessly translates his professional sports experiences into valuable parenting insights.

From pre-game analyses to post-game reflections, John provides a unique and insightful perspective. He shares his conversations with hockey parents, underscoring the importance of fostering players' ambition and personal growth. Drawing from his interactions with Canadian players, he reveals how they harness the challenges of harsh winters to their advantage. Our conversation encompasses topics ranging from kindling passion in young athletes to finding the right equilibrium between practice and gameplay, all while recognizing the significance of well-timed breaks.

However, our discussion doesn't solely focus on the younger generation. We explore the evolving mindset of sports parents, addressing contemporary challenges like digital distractions and the controversial trend of selecting very young children for elite teams. Moreover, we examine the subtle yet pivotal elements that contribute to success in sports, including the role of nutrition and the essence of leadership.

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00:52 - Raising a Champion

11:58 - Insights From Hockey Parents

17:19 - Youth Sports Passion and Growth Prioritization

23:51 - Parental Perspectives on Youth Sports

26:26 - The Shift in Youth Sports Culture

38:00 - Youth Sports and Parental Involvement

49:08 - Importance of Little Things in Hockey

53:09 - Youth Sports

01:05:02 - Embracing Roles in Sports

WEBVTT

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Well, we've got a real treat.

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Well, I should say I've got a real treat.

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Tonight we're interviewing John Boruk.

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So he was a sportscaster in Philadelphia for many years Don't worry, we don't just talk about Philadelphia sports, the whole episode because his son is a high level hockey player in the area and he has created a show called raising a champion, which really dives into a lot of the same subject matter we do on our kids by hockey.

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It's a great, great crossover episode and we discuss a lot of different things from, obviously, how he got into hockey, but a lot of the parenting side of hockey and how it applies to our own children and the things he's learned in being a sportscaster and being around a lot of NHL players throughout his career and how he applies that to being a really great father and a great leader in the market today.

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All right, before we jump into it with John, I just want to remind you guys our children's book when Hockey Stops is still available at when hockey stopscom.

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The whole purpose of this book is to teach your kids how to deal with adversity, which is something we talk about on the show today.

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The book dives into a young character who is facing a situation.

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He can't play for the year and he still stays involved in the game Even though he's injured.

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It's got a ton of great rave reviews.

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We are really, really proud of it and we're really fortunate that a lot of people love it as much as we do.

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So check that out when hockey stopscom or, if you're inclined, go over to Amazon it's on there too and check it out.

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But without further ado, let's dive, let's dive, let's dive and dive into this episode.

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John Borek on Our Kids Playhockey.

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Hello hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Playhockey.

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I'm Leo Elias.

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With Mike Benelli, kristi Cascio burns us literally on assignment tonight.

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Our guest today, john Borek, has 11 regional Emmy awards that he's earned, over 25 years of sports broadcasting covering some of the world's biggest athletes on the game's biggest stage.

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He is the host of the raising a champion podcast, which we highly recommend to all of you, which dives into the industry of youth sports through the eyes of former professional athletes, parents, coaches, administrators and medical experts.

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To answer how youth sports can improve, be safer, cost effective and more inclusive for all athletes Sounds very familiar, which is one of the reasons we're very excited to have him tonight.

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However, with all of those accolades, he will tell you that his greatest and proudest accomplishment has been raising three children who have all been very active through sports, including youth hockey, in their everyday lives.

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We're looking forward to diving into this one, john, welcome to Our Kids Playhockey.

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Hey, it's good to be here.

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It is great to see a podcast dedicated to kind of what I talk about.

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I mean, I encompass all sports, but you guys are hockey centric, so that's really cool.

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And I'm right in the thick of it because I got a 2011 who's getting ready to start his Pee Wee major season, so it's fun and I'm sure that you guys, between guests, you have a lot of really good information out there for parents and coaches and everybody.

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Yeah, I'd say, if there was a target and like, the center of the target was the target audience, your son's at that exact point which means that you're there as a parent as well.

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We appreciate the compliment, obviously, and again, you're doing great work on your show as well.

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I'm going to say it again to the audience If you like our show, you will love his show as well, so make sure you check that out.

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I wanted to start with it, john, I was going to tell you this.

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So typically, when I do my rundowns for shows and my research, I have so many questions.

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We never get to all of them, but for you, I kind of know where we're going tonight, so I actually don't have a ton of questions because I'm pretty sure we're going to have discussions.

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All right good.

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Yeah, so I'm looking forward to it.

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So again, I've watched you interview people for years, so thank you for allowing us to flip the script a bit, but I actually wanted to start with you.

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Just tell us a little bit about the role that hockey has played in your life, and again a little bit more about your son, who's playing.

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Yeah.

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I've gotten there.

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Yeah, that's, it's Well, it goes back to.

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You know, I remember I was saying I grew up in the Dallas, Fort Worth, Texas area back in the 1980s and, believe it or not, I actually had this affinity for hockey.

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I didn't know what it was, but I thought it was so cool.

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There was nowhere to watch it.

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You know, this was pre cable.

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You know, I think maybe when the Stanley Cup was on back in that day is the only time that you could watch hockey and there was no youth programs.

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The only place that you could even skate was to go to a mall that had, like you know, an ice sheet there in the middle of the mall.

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So when I got into sports casting, one of the big allures, as I was moving through the ranks from one city to the next, was in 1998, I took a job in national, the year that the national predators were awarded an expansion team.

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So I got there and they started playing seven, eight months later.

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So that was really my time to cover the sport, be around the sport, be around the players you know, get to know the ends, the outs, you know how they go about it, they train and everything.

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And then from national I moved after five years to Detroit and during that time was probably the greatest collection of talent you'll ever see assembled on one team, that Red Wings team, prior to the whole lockout and salary cap era, when they had Robotai Hall, Hosh at, cellios, Iserman, Zetterberg, Bet Sue.

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This isn't an all star team you're naming, by the way, this is just Detroit Red Wings at that time, one team.

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Yeah, that won the Stanley Cup in 2002.

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And I got there, you know, the year after that, but the team was still assembled.

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So it was, yeah, and I just had a passion for the sport, you know, just passion for covering, love the players.

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If you've ever been around NHL players, you just know that they're a different breed, they're so down to earth and a lot of that is because the way that you have to play this sport, you're upbringing and the way that you know you go about it is that you can't be a me centric type person.

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You got to check your ego anytime that you step inside a ring because the game will expose you, expose those players who try to play that way.

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So you know, being around locker rooms and that, and then moving on to Philadelphia and being able to cover the Flyers for 13 years was really cool.

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And then, you know, when I got here, my two boys were born here.

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My oldest son, he got on a pair of ice skates and I kind of wanted to push him in that direction but he didn't really have an interest and that was fine.

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You know the one thing that I told myself, you know, when it came to developing, you know my kids, and whatever they wanted to do is well, first off, they have to have a passion, like I don't want to, never want to have to talk them into doing something.

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They're the one that have to, you know, to show that they have a real, genuine interest in doing something.

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So he didn't have it.

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And then my youngest son, who was born in 2011,.

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He won.

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I said I'm going to get him out there at the age of like I think I had him on skates at the age of three or four.

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And I remember I was holding up under his arms.

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And you know I was out there for maybe two, three different sessions and I said, if this kid doesn't get on, I can't, my arms are going to fall off If he doesn't just start skating.

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And about that time he just started taking off and that's how it starts, right, you know, you get him out there at the age of three and then they just they're able to stay on their legs and he's out there.

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I got, you know, still have video on my phone.

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He's out there chasing the puck with kids, you know, two and three years older than him, and that's how it all got started.

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I bought little hockey jerseys for him and so he had like a, a long quiz jersey, a Drew jersey, a Tyler Sagan jersey back and they just get out there and just skate.

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So you know it.

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You know sort of a bittersweet thing in terms of leaving NBC Sports Philadelphia when I did, because you know I had I stayed on there and continued to cover the team, cover the Flyers.

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There's a lot of sacrifices that have to be made and so now I'm grateful that I get a chance to be there every weekend.

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Go to tournaments.

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He's got tournaments in Toronto and Detroit, rochester, I think we're going to Pittsburgh.

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It's crazy.

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It's crazy.

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You know when you, you know we're, we're all we're going now, but it's, it's great, you know it's.

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You build such a camaraderie with parents and I really believe that the parents probably the wins and losses mean more to the parents than the kids.

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They just like to get out there and and and and you know they're competitive and have fun, but but it's good and and and I, you know, with him and his love for hockey, you know we'll sit here and watch hockey on television.

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How he can pick things up as an analyst, you know playing the game, which is so cool, so it's, it's really good, it's.

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I'm glad that I have him to do that, because it's really kept me involved in hockey after leaving NBC sports.

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Well, I want to add to real quick, just so we don't leave out your other kids to play sports too right, you had mentioned that in the pre show.

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Yeah, yeah, so my oldest my yep.

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My oldest daughter is.

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She's still doing karate.

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She's second degree black belt.

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She's inching her way towards being a third degree black belt.

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My oldest son Got his black belt as well.

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He kind of did that because they're they're very close in age, my daughter and my old son, and then he just wanted to focus and concentrate on basketball.

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He tried football One year or a couple years, but he just wanted to focus Primarily on basketball and that's essentially what he's been doing for the last three or four years.

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Yeah that's really gonna be a junior in high school.

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He's gonna play on the varsity basketball so success in sports.

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Now here's a cool question that just popped in my head and yeah, you know, we, we get a lot of emails on this show.

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We get a lot of feedback just about the anxiety of being a parent, right, and we all feel that in different ways.

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So here's my question You've been around the NHL athlete Some of the best right in multiple markets.

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Do you feel that that experience of being around those athletes has has Influenced the way that you view the youth game, right?

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Because, again, john, we hear all the time Parents talk about the ROI of youth hockey and, if they can just yeah or they can just make the show, and I mean I think that we talk about the insanity of that conversation.

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You know, at any point really in the youth game outside, maybe the the u18 level is when that's really you can consider that right.

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So did your experience on the air and and being a sports journalist impact the way you approach the game as a parent?

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That's a really good question and I would say, for the most part, no.

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Until I was, I Transition more from just doing pre and post game shows into following the team and Covering them on the road, writing for the, for the website.

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I did that for the last two years.

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I was there and and they would have a dad's trip, and so I would really, because I had kids of my own at the time.

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I Really took the time to get to know some of the dads, like Claude Jereux, dad Ray and, and I would ask the dads tell me about what you did.

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Tell me, because I was like a sponge at that point.

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I just wanted to absorb all the information, everything that they did, you know, along the way, and the one Constant, I think, was, as they just said, you know, no, you know, we didn't.

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I didn't.

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You know, push him, you know, it's one of those things that they have to drive the train.

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You can, you can put the coal in the engine for them.

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You know, you can supply it, but they're the ones that have to drive, they are the ones that could be the driving force.

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If you got to be behind them and pushing them, it's not gonna work and they, none of them, were what I would consider, these over zealous parents, these crazy, you know parents now a lot of them were like with Travis Connect me, his dad was his coach for, I think, until he got to be 15 or 16 in juniors.

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So he was a coach, so you'd see that, but certainly not close to ruzed that, close, close.

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Dad was a little electrician and he just knows that.

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You know they lived way up in Hearst, ontario, where they had a lot of cold winters.

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You know Claude would leave the house and go out and play for three or four hours.

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You know, because you could do that.

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You know, and and and you know that's why you know, a lot of Canadians have such an advantage because they have those colder winters.

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Where it's, it's it's kind of like having Inner-city basketball courts all over the place.

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You know that that's.

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They just have frozen ponds because the weather gets that cold, but that's.

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But that's when I really started to pick up a lot of things.

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It's talking to some of these dads, talking to some of the moms when they would can't come into town.

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You know, I did a big story In fact, I got them to come on the podcast, but before that Johnny Goudreau and I would say that probably you Goudreau is is probably more in line With those hardcore parents, but he was a coach.

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He was a skating coach.

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He ran the organization, you know, ran the outfit there at Holly dell, and so that was his job and Johnny just became.

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But I don't think that.

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That.

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I Don't think you Goudreau said Johnny got to be here, be here, be here.

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Johnny just developed into being a rat ring, you know, and that he just never wanted to leave.

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You know, it's like boom, if dad's gonna be there, then I want to be there and that's the way it's gonna be.

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So but that would that.

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Yeah, that was what was really cool, it was a really good story.

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Like talking to Brian Elliott's dad was.

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You know, brian Elliott was a skater and he was a position player as a squirt.

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And then when he got to pee we at about this age, he's like, hey, dad, I want to, I don't want to ever come off the ice.

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And he's like, okay, well, I don't know what to tell you.

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It goes well.

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Then I want to be a goalie.

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So at the age of 12, brian Elliott decides that he just doesn't want to skate anymore.

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He doesn't want to be a position player, wants to be a goalie right.

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And so if you think at the age of 12 you're starting, that it seems kind of late, but that's, that's what happened, and so you know, I think, that if you have talent and and and and, 90% of it it's just raw DNA talent.

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You know, if you've got the raw DNA talent, it's the other 10, 15%, that.

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How much can you push yourself?

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How much are you willing to work when others don't want to work?

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You know how just all the stuff off the ice, stay conditioning and all of that.

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But I really believe that you know, if you want you don't want to say this to parents because everybody's got this lofty goal right hey, my kid's gonna is good, you know he's gonna be there, he's.

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He's great at the age of six and that sort of thing and they just it's.

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So I'm telling you you're the funnel.

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I talk about the funnel, I mean the funnels here and then when, even when you get to college, it's like down to here and then the NHL is so tiny, but it's, it's so much goes into it, like so much.

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I wanted, I actually want to do an episode and I haven't gotten this yet, but I got to find the right person, because when you get to be 15, 16, 17 and 18 is when you start thinking about Relationships.

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You start thinking about, you know, dating girls and dating this and and, and it's easy for that to kind of, if you, if you're, have that goal of wanting to play collegiate hockey or you want to play junior hockey and have NHL aspirations, you know you got a really have tunnel vision and it's, it's easy to get sidetracked, you know, and, like Johnny Goodrow, when I talked to his parents, you had to Skip.

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You know, the junior dance, the sophomore dance, the senior prom, those things, it's, it's, it's not an option like, it's just not.

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If you you want to continue to ascend to the point to where you want to, you have to make sacrifices along the way.

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So, yeah, it's.

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That's when I think I really started to to Absorb a lot of information.

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When I started to talk to a lot of the parents Started the dads and some of the moms of the flyers and stuff.

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Well, I'll tell you that I have an immense passion for the game and I realized early on and again, mike and I always joke that this, this podcast, is therapy for all of us.

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But as much passion as I have for the game, can't put that into my child, right, they have to develop it.

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Yeah, right, and it doesn't matter, and that's a common theme I see amongst parents, and I'm actually really thankful that you shared that, john, because I think it shows you.

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You know, especially when you get the elite level, it's never exactly what I think people think it is right.

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And I'll say we've interviewed NHL parents and NHL players and I think for the most part across the board, like you said, 99.5% of people in the NHL that play in the NHL have that passion, right, there are a few that just just like, as you said, they have the raw talent but they don't tend to last as long as people think right.

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I remember Long time ago in the 90s.

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I remember in the 90s Wayne Gretzky was still in New York.

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He just probably just arrived in New York and he was on like a public access radio show and some parent called in Like I don't even know if I've told you this one, and they said listen, wayne, my kid, can you tell my kid to practice?

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Can you tell my kid to practice harder?

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And this was a really impactful moment for me as a young person listen, he goes.

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No, no, I cannot tell you yeah.

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I don't want it right.

00:18:00.738 --> 00:18:09.282
And here's the greatest hockey player ever right, saying that you know, if you don't want it, it's not, it doesn't matter, the rest is almost doesn't matter.

00:18:09.771 --> 00:18:29.481
Yeah, well, you know, it's funny that I had a similar talk like that with my son, where they have a like a three-fifths rink as opposed to the NHL rink, and he likes to be on the three-fifths rink, of course, because there's not as much surface space, so you don't have to worry about skating up and down and up and down, it's, it's, you're playing the short game and battling and he loves all that stuff.

00:18:29.481 --> 00:18:33.481
But he's like, oh, he goes, what rink are we on?

00:18:33.481 --> 00:18:41.275
So when I tell him, oh yeah, you're on the NHL rink tonight, he's like, oh god, you know and so I'm like, look, you got it, you get.

00:18:41.394 --> 00:18:43.819
I said you got to find a way to get something out of pride.

00:18:43.819 --> 00:18:50.401
If you want to get where you want to go, practices where it's gonna happen, right, it's not gonna be in games, you know you're not gonna.

00:18:50.401 --> 00:18:53.809
You don't do the necessary skill work playing in games.

00:18:53.809 --> 00:18:59.882
You're doing it in practice and and and paying attention and focusing and embracing that.

00:18:59.882 --> 00:19:04.481
The really great players Embrace practice, not just playing the games.

00:19:04.481 --> 00:19:10.809
The games is like once they get into the games they're already locked in the mentality, but they learn how to get stuff in practice.

00:19:10.809 --> 00:19:17.261
That's why I love to read Kobe Bryant a lot, because Kobe was, I mean, one of the best you know in Jordan.

00:19:17.281 --> 00:19:23.730
Those guys talked about Maximizing their practice time and how big practice hard, so the games are easy.

00:19:24.550 --> 00:19:28.314
Yeah, but you mentioned something too about like the kids and instilling passion.

00:19:28.314 --> 00:19:36.368
I asked him every single year and we had a hard lesson this year because he was cut from one of his, the team that he played for last year.

00:19:36.368 --> 00:19:51.461
One one of the big teams folded, so you had a disbursement of about 13 14 kids looking for a home, looking for a new team, and he happened to just sort of be one of the odd ones out, even though I thought he had a really good year.

00:19:51.461 --> 00:19:57.382
It happens and I said, you know, I gave him some options, but I asked him every single year.

00:19:57.422 --> 00:19:59.787
I said Do you want to play triple a hockey?

00:19:59.787 --> 00:20:01.275
Because this isn't cheap.

00:20:01.275 --> 00:20:09.809
I mean, between tuition and equipment and being on your 13 now in three years, I'm buying jerseys every single year.

00:20:09.809 --> 00:20:11.441
You know you're talking.

00:20:11.441 --> 00:20:14.612
You know a hockey season is 10 to 15 thousand dollars.

00:20:14.612 --> 00:20:15.394
That's not cheap.

00:20:15.394 --> 00:20:30.105
So if you want to do, I need to know that you want to do this, that you have the, that you're willing to go to every practice and every game and you have the, that you have an enjoyment, not just that you wanted to enjoy doing.

00:20:30.226 --> 00:20:34.315
If you don't enjoy doing it, then all of this is is pointless.

00:20:34.315 --> 00:20:41.298
You know we can, you can play double a hockey and have fun, and we can save a whole lot of money and not have to travel, you know, all across the Northeast.

00:20:41.298 --> 00:20:50.951
So that's the key, I think, if there's a parent out there, when you're in that that summertime, get away from hockey, go do vacations.

00:20:50.951 --> 00:20:53.699
You know, let them play, let them do something.

00:20:53.699 --> 00:20:54.340
You know, go.

00:20:54.340 --> 00:20:58.680
You know you take trips to the beach, the shore, whatever, but just get away.

00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:01.755
You don't need to so that they're their batteries are charged.

00:21:01.894 --> 00:21:14.920
But then make sure that they really, before you embark and usually you got to make that decision back in March that you know that they definitely want to stick with triple a, because as you start to move up, it starts to get a little rougher.

00:21:15.441 --> 00:21:22.875
You know we're, when we're now one year away from checking, that's a whole different beast that a lot of kids aren't going to be really acclimated to, you know.

00:21:22.875 --> 00:21:34.423
And then after that, you're about two years away from these guys Hitting puberty and when that happens, bodies change, a lot changes and some of the kids that may be on top now it's gonna be flipped.

00:21:34.423 --> 00:21:35.894
It's gonna be completely different.

00:21:35.894 --> 00:21:36.881
You're gonna see something.

00:21:36.881 --> 00:21:43.634
You're gonna see kids that you never thought were good All of a sudden grow into their bodies and now the whole the sports completely changed for them.

00:21:43.634 --> 00:21:51.855
So that's what I just want to make sure that this is still what he wants, because I don't say that my dream is your dream.

00:21:51.855 --> 00:21:57.989
It's, your dream is my dream, but if this isn't your passion anymore, then it's certainly not gonna be my passion right.

00:21:59.019 --> 00:22:04.515
Yeah, I think that comes up to all the time we talked about, like we even mentioned a little earlier, and you use the term like ROI, right?

00:22:04.515 --> 00:22:04.796
And?

00:22:05.397 --> 00:22:24.740
and I think we've all lost sight and listening to you and on your you know on the other and your real life, right, you're talking about your world and your discussion with all athletes and Athletic parents is that this ROI somehow turned into pro hockey or a pro sport, as opposed to Building a better human being.

00:22:24.740 --> 00:22:37.547
And the ROI is that, you know, for 98% of the young men and women that go through sport at even the highest levels, right yeah, being our leaders, we want them to be the ones that have the grit, that had the adversity.

00:22:37.547 --> 00:22:41.578
It can deal with, change, that can deal with, conflict can deal with.

00:22:41.578 --> 00:23:00.934
You know, a team, you know working within a team setting, whether you're a plumber or a stockbroker that you see, like this office, somewhere along the line, the ROI turned into Like a paid position to play the sport, as opposed to all of the things that we got our kids into sports for in the first place.

00:23:00.934 --> 00:23:07.555
And you know, obviously social media has played a huge part in that and and this professionalization of youth sports.

00:23:07.634 --> 00:23:13.194
But to your point, john, when you can evaluate with your children and say, okay, where are we at?

00:23:13.194 --> 00:23:17.106
Is this something you love doing and and never really talking about?

00:23:17.106 --> 00:23:19.660
Well, do you love doing it because you ultimately want to?

00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:22.867
You know, be Tyler Sagan and, like you know, we were up in a.

00:23:22.867 --> 00:23:36.667
You know we were up in a Hockey camp in Toronto and you know there's a brand new Maserati outside and you know it's 6, 30 in the morning and you see, you know Tyler Sagan walks out he just got done with his workout.

00:23:36.667 --> 00:23:40.279
He gets in the car and the kids, all the kids, are like oh my god, that was that was Tyler Sagan.

00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:43.567
Like, like and look at the car he has and look at the, look at the life.

00:23:44.236 --> 00:23:46.401
There's a guy behind him carrying like 15 sticks.

00:23:46.401 --> 00:23:54.530
I said, yeah, but he's here at 5, 30 in the morning and and he's doing the work like he's, he's, he's, he's still a dedicated.

00:23:54.530 --> 00:23:55.815
You know, people don't see all that.

00:23:55.815 --> 00:24:03.487
They don't see all that like no, they don't see the practice, they don't see the fact that the games are the funnest part, because it's actually less work.

00:24:03.487 --> 00:24:12.474
You know, you're like, right, you guys have some fun here, but I think that some somewhere in the line, maybe you could talk about that a little bit, because, because you're dealing with all sports, right, john?

00:24:12.474 --> 00:24:14.519
Yeah, where did that like?

00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:18.737
Where do you think that disconnect really has become From?

00:24:18.737 --> 00:24:30.144
Hey, I want my kids playing sport Because I want them to learn all the lessons of sports supposed to be teaching, as opposed to, oh, no, no, my kids gonna play a sport so he doesn't have to go to where you know, have a real job.

00:24:30.546 --> 00:24:32.455
Well, first off, there's.

00:24:32.455 --> 00:24:37.105
There shouldn't even be a mentality of having an ROI like you.

00:24:37.105 --> 00:24:41.862
Don't even, you shouldn't even be thinking about any return on Whatever your investment is.

00:24:41.862 --> 00:24:47.185
Okay, the return is that you enjoy watching him play, at whatever level he's playing at.

00:24:47.185 --> 00:24:48.107
That's the return.

00:24:49.417 --> 00:24:51.230
I don't, that's that's the way I look at.

00:24:51.230 --> 00:24:53.939
I just said hey, I I love watching him play.

00:24:53.939 --> 00:24:56.265
It brings me great joy, however long it is.

00:24:56.265 --> 00:25:02.785
Maybe it's until 16, maybe it's 17 or 18 through high school, I don't know but I really enjoy it.

00:25:02.785 --> 00:25:11.878
As long as he enjoys it and I enjoy it, I'll invest and I'm not putting this money thinking that there's some Big, shiny object down the road.

00:25:11.878 --> 00:25:14.305
If he doesn't get it, it's gonna be a major disappointment.

00:25:14.905 --> 00:25:23.032
I don't look at that at all because, well, first off, you know you can't, you don't ever a lot of things change.

00:25:23.032 --> 00:25:25.001
Like I said, I'm just mentioning the whole.

00:25:25.001 --> 00:25:29.981
You know these kids get, you know they get girlfriends, and Maybe then all of a sudden, sports.

00:25:29.981 --> 00:25:33.957
Yeah, you know, I'm not really into it all that much, you know it's.

00:25:33.957 --> 00:25:41.306
It's kind of a yeah, I'd rather go out here and party with with Johnny and some of the boys as they get older, you know.

00:25:41.306 --> 00:25:42.029
So that's different.

00:25:42.029 --> 00:25:45.482
But you, you, you asked when did the mentality start to change?

00:25:45.482 --> 00:25:47.768
When things started to get more expensive?

00:25:47.768 --> 00:25:58.530
When, when, when families have, now, when you started having elite clubs and elite teams and and, and the cost of tuition.

00:25:58.530 --> 00:26:12.464
And then these coaches are getting paid and you see how much you're having to pay your expenses and how much you know, you look on your spreadsheets and you see, you know, you know how much money, the thousands of dollars, that's when they said, well, I better get something out of.

00:26:12.464 --> 00:26:14.229
That's where the mentality started.

00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:19.474
Because back in my day, when I was playing, everything was YMCA or Little League, this.

00:26:19.474 --> 00:26:23.790
You know, my parents were on a shoestring budget and it was never like that.

00:26:23.790 --> 00:26:24.674
It was never like that at all.

00:26:24.674 --> 00:26:28.625
There was not all these hyper.

00:26:28.625 --> 00:26:32.174
You know, well, you gotta be on this travel team and well, I'm on two travel teams and then I'm.

00:26:32.174 --> 00:26:35.775
You know, then it becomes a 12 month long ordeal.

00:26:35.775 --> 00:26:37.615
That was never, ever the case.

00:26:37.615 --> 00:26:45.075
But that's, but it's everybody's trying to keep up with everybody else, and when somebody's paying, oh, we're gonna go up here to play this tournament.

00:26:45.075 --> 00:26:52.114
I don't get caught up in it, it doesn't bother me one bit, but I see it happening all the time, and that's that's where it all started.

00:26:52.114 --> 00:26:57.490
Is when the money started to flow in and it became big business.

00:26:57.490 --> 00:27:01.568
Is when parents says well, if I'm buying into this, I better be getting something out of it.

00:27:04.080 --> 00:27:09.278
Right and I think, and obviously the organization and the coaches and the teams you know feed into that right, because all of a sudden somebody said oh, wait a minute.

00:27:09.278 --> 00:27:16.201
I don't have to be a vault like my father volunteered for everything, like he was doing the clock and we got getting the door and help him with water bottles Like whoa.

00:27:16.201 --> 00:27:17.907
I could have got paid for all that, like I could.

00:27:17.907 --> 00:27:23.550
I could actually turn this into a revenue stream yeah, myself by starting this business and having a travel team that goes to Boston every weekend.

00:27:25.217 --> 00:27:28.086
So, yeah, there's no doubt about and I think, and I think that's where we actually.

00:27:28.086 --> 00:27:46.575
It's so funny because we just had this conversation the other day with another, another guest, about the point of saying, like what you did as a kid, like why did you forget that all the stuff that you did as a kid was because you Loved going and doing it and go, like we see, we talked about, we talked to parents all the time.

00:27:46.575 --> 00:27:49.045
Does your son or daughter go out on their own and hit balls?

00:27:49.045 --> 00:27:52.173
Did they go on their own and shoot pox?

00:27:52.173 --> 00:27:54.565
Did they get up in the morning and go?

00:27:54.565 --> 00:27:56.534
And all of a sudden you're like wait where, where you know, you kind of get in.

00:27:57.076 --> 00:28:03.461
You know back when I, you know, grew up and a lot of and a lot of the best athletes I knew, you had to beg them to come inside.

00:28:03.461 --> 00:28:04.906
Like you guys said listen, that's it.

00:28:04.906 --> 00:28:07.199
You don't come inside.

00:28:07.199 --> 00:28:07.941
I'm taking your stick away.

00:28:07.941 --> 00:28:13.140
Like you have to get in, as opposed to the lights are on outside, I just pay two hours.

00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:14.123
You must go to this clinic.

00:28:14.123 --> 00:28:14.905
You got to go to it.

00:28:15.227 --> 00:28:16.811
It's just it that that whole pendulum is shifted.

00:28:16.811 --> 00:28:22.820
And I'm not.

00:28:22.820 --> 00:28:29.473
And the sad reality is the kids that are doing that on their own Are doing it on their own there and we don't see that.

00:28:29.473 --> 00:28:32.521
Everybody forgets that there that's a self-motivated kid.

00:28:32.521 --> 00:28:37.532
I almost, I almost get really I'm not jaded so much but I got.

00:28:37.532 --> 00:28:41.204
I'll really question the parent like is your son really want to be here at 5 30 in the morning?

00:28:41.707 --> 00:28:44.476
I know here, but is this something like they literally?

00:28:44.476 --> 00:28:52.440
You went out in the car, was started and they had a cup of coffee for you Like is that really what's happening or are you driving this hoping that they get the bug?

00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:54.626
Like hoping that they it's.

00:28:54.686 --> 00:28:57.846
Are you living through them or Do?

00:28:57.885 --> 00:29:04.298
you feel you can, you can do, you feel you could pave that path easier for them, so that they can get to a point where maybe they do love it.

00:29:05.165 --> 00:29:05.606
It's funny.

00:29:05.606 --> 00:29:11.867
There's one example I can think of a dad who did that Bob Stephenson.

00:29:11.867 --> 00:29:32.648
Bobby Ryan's father got him up at 5, 5, 30 every morning to skate every morning as a little kid and did it from like age 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and, and you know, and obviously Bobby Ryan was a really good player, played in the NHL second overall pick behind City Krasby, but he, that's the.

00:29:32.648 --> 00:29:33.050
That was.

00:29:33.050 --> 00:29:44.614
The one takeaway from the time that I spent with Bob Stephenson was that he had him out there five o'clock in the morning having him skate and Apparently I guess he liked it, he's, he stayed with it.

00:29:44.614 --> 00:29:50.901
But his dad also had a presence about him to where there's, there's no other option.

00:29:50.901 --> 00:29:54.631
And so, yeah, I mean, how many parents would do something like that?

00:29:54.631 --> 00:29:55.112
I don't know.

00:29:55.152 --> 00:30:21.704
But to kind of go back to your point, you know when we were younger and kids, we didn't have the distractions that the kids have now, and I'm talking about phones and gaming consoles and all of that stuff, because Going outside and playing sports, no matter what it was sandlot, football, waffle ball right and somebody's backyard and fences you know did that, or you, or you played pick up basketball in the driveway.

00:30:21.704 --> 00:30:26.236
You know, that was the social setting.

00:30:26.236 --> 00:30:38.063
And today the social setting is is put on the headphones and play Xbox, you know, and play, you know call of duty or or League of Legends, or Fortnite or whatever the game is.

00:30:38.063 --> 00:30:42.073
But that's the social setting and it's it's.

00:30:42.073 --> 00:30:50.777
It's it's tearing away to where they're not going out there and just having that free, expressive play, that unstructured play.

00:30:50.797 --> 00:30:57.059
So, because they're doing that, and then you're trying to play catch up, then you're trying to structure things.

00:30:57.059 --> 00:31:04.838
And I do this because you know, in the summer I want him to least get out there, that I'm calling up, you know a lead edge up in Malvern.

00:31:04.838 --> 00:31:09.741
I'm saying, hey, can I get him out there for an hour session on the ice Because he needs to get his legs moved.

00:31:09.741 --> 00:31:10.345
So that's part of the problem.

00:31:10.345 --> 00:31:16.184
I don't think I'd be doing that if he was out here playing lacrosse with his buddies or basketball, football, basketball.

00:31:16.184 --> 00:31:16.952
But they don't do that.

00:31:19.611 --> 00:31:20.173
Well, it's too hard right.

00:31:20.192 --> 00:31:20.795
It's almost like.

00:31:20.795 --> 00:31:22.140
You know, like this whole, this whole like.

00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:22.642
But I became a parent.

00:31:22.642 --> 00:31:23.204
Like this whole.

00:31:23.204 --> 00:31:25.796
Hey, we got a play date arrange.

00:31:25.796 --> 00:31:26.599
They go a play date.

00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:27.805
What the hell is my parents like?

00:31:27.805 --> 00:31:29.071
What are you talking about?

00:31:29.071 --> 00:31:31.444
You had to go range to go have somebody go play with your kids.

00:31:31.444 --> 00:31:33.738
I go, yeah, because kids don't.

00:31:33.738 --> 00:31:34.805
Just, they're, the cul-de-sacs are empty.

00:31:34.805 --> 00:31:36.410
They're, the cul-de-sacs are empty.

00:31:36.410 --> 00:31:38.576
The the end of the streets are vacant.

00:31:38.576 --> 00:31:39.980
Like you don't see the kid.

00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:41.083
Because it is.

00:31:41.163 --> 00:31:53.257
It's harder there's no doubt about it that the distractions and the ability to do something that's not physical, that doesn't take creativity, like, like, they're doing that in a different way and, and you know it's hard, it is hard for me.

00:31:53.257 --> 00:32:10.756
I'm the first one to say it's really hard for me to, to, to Accept that this is our reality and that, but at the same time, like, okay, well, instead of fighting it, maybe we can create something outside, like and and say, hey, like, I find myself playing with my kids all the time.

00:32:10.756 --> 00:32:18.218
Where my father never played with me Like, never, because it was there was 17 other kids playing, like you know, play with your get hurt.

00:32:18.967 --> 00:32:22.016
You know you get hurt, right, but it's like you know I'm not playing street hockey with that guy.

00:32:22.286 --> 00:32:34.196
But I think, but I think it's so funny how, when I asked kids just to go out and play, I'll I guy do this all the time in my community like I'll just take a bunch of sticks and I'll go up and I'll send a little text message hey, I'm up at the tennis court, I got a bunch of floorball sticks up here.

00:32:34.196 --> 00:32:35.347
Anyone want to come?

00:32:35.347 --> 00:32:37.436
Yeah, I do it with a cross to.

00:32:37.436 --> 00:32:42.977
We just have open night all across, say it's a beautiful night, the Sun's out, there's a bunch of balls up here, the nets are empty.

00:32:42.977 --> 00:32:52.176
And then you know, and you'll get parents being like oh, thank God, because now somebody is helping me get my kid out like you're literally doing the it.

00:32:52.196 --> 00:32:53.579
Can Johnny come out to play?

00:32:55.445 --> 00:32:56.892
But I make, but I'm the voice.

00:32:56.892 --> 00:32:57.373
I'm the voice.

00:32:58.185 --> 00:33:03.356
That's the whole key is that you're the, you're the, you're the one that spearheading this whole effort.

00:33:03.356 --> 00:33:06.034
Right, nobody had a spearheaded back in the day.

00:33:06.034 --> 00:33:08.585
Well, our, our imaginations ran wild.

00:33:08.585 --> 00:33:11.261
We, we knew what to do, we figured it out.

00:33:11.261 --> 00:33:19.353
We, we knew how to cultivate games and create games and and and, hey Buddies, driveways, the end zone and the other end zones over here.

00:33:19.353 --> 00:33:20.615
You made it work.

00:33:20.615 --> 00:33:21.397
You made it happen.

00:33:21.707 --> 00:33:25.048
I'm running him and yeah, right, yeah.

00:33:25.048 --> 00:33:27.460
It always ended well when I pretended to be him, at least, right?

00:33:27.741 --> 00:33:34.818
so you know If you're a parent out there and you can keep your kid from having a cell phone in an Xbox until he's 13.

00:33:34.818 --> 00:33:39.230
You know hats off, good luck, that's the way to do it.

00:33:39.631 --> 00:33:42.101
I am gonna play a little bit of devil's advocate here.

00:33:42.101 --> 00:33:43.771
Come in the house, I'll preface it with that.

00:33:43.771 --> 00:33:48.744
I actually agree with you guys, but there are a few things to keep in mind, and I'm speaking to our parents listening to this one.

00:33:48.744 --> 00:33:59.113
So number one is that and this started well before this but we have to remember too that all these kids just were told for two years straight you can't go outside, you can't go play anything, you can't go to the rink.

00:33:59.113 --> 00:34:01.750
And again, no one's fault, no one asked for that.

00:34:02.270 --> 00:34:08.704
But you have a whole generation of kids who were locked up for a year and a half and we even told them to go to school on their computer, right.

00:34:08.704 --> 00:34:14.755
So again, that's not so much directed at what you guys were saying, it's just like you know that happened and it's a little weird.

00:34:14.755 --> 00:34:16.702
We don't talk about it more in society.

00:34:16.702 --> 00:34:20.436
It's just kind of we kind of moved on real quick from that, which I think is dangerous in itself.

00:34:20.436 --> 00:34:26.311
The other thing too is I would make the argument, I'm sure you guys will agree Kids are still as creative.

00:34:26.311 --> 00:34:29.882
I just think that the plane that they use, that creativity, has changed.

00:34:29.882 --> 00:34:36.617
And like you know, john, you mentioned fortnight like it's an interesting game and follow me here, right, because you have to be really creative to be in that you do oh sure.

00:34:36.637 --> 00:34:39.369
Yeah, but you're right, you're sitting there with headphones on.

00:34:39.369 --> 00:34:57.353
I think another element of this is and I'm actually being self-reflective as a parent it is real easy as a parent when you're tired at 5 pm and they want to go on the Xbox, to just be like, yeah, go do that so I get some quiet.

00:34:57.353 --> 00:35:12.842
And I've, I've tried to be calm, I've tried to be real conscious to when I get home with my kid at least sometimes that's a practice and my son and daughter will pick up the basketball and we're very fortunate we have a basketball hoop outside her house and my first thought really is no, get inside, go shower.

00:35:13.021 --> 00:35:13.724
We don't time for this.

00:35:13.864 --> 00:35:16.152
We don't time for this and I might catch myself.

00:35:16.152 --> 00:35:20.585
I say you know what, go ahead, because I want to encourage the behavior a bit, right.

00:35:20.585 --> 00:35:25.304
But but I'm saying to that that I agree with you guys about that kids don't go out enough.

00:35:25.304 --> 00:35:32.585
I also think that as parents we are also trained a bit to to not help them go out as much, right?

00:35:32.585 --> 00:35:44.304
And also here's here's another one, john like and Mike, there was no at least from my experience, there was no massive fear In the 80s and 90s of your kid just going out and coming back when the lights went back on.

00:35:44.304 --> 00:35:48.505
I think you know now it's like I don't leave my sight, don't go too far.

00:35:48.505 --> 00:35:49.708
You know there's this.

00:35:49.708 --> 00:35:56.876
There's this probably very rational fear, to be honest, like we just know more about the world, world's twisted place, but I think it's a two-way street.

00:35:56.916 --> 00:36:07.889
And again, I don't think you guys were not saying that, I just yeah, but there's a street right, but there also was no fear Growing up that you weren't gonna make it, because you didn't even think about making it Like there was no fear.

00:36:07.889 --> 00:36:09.614
There was no fear of being in town going.

00:36:09.614 --> 00:36:13.458
I can't believe that Lee's dad has him going to that power skating clinic.

00:36:13.458 --> 00:36:16.768
What the hell like I've got to do, that I should be doing that like.

00:36:16.768 --> 00:36:19.088
And then the parents that say, oh no, we're not doing anything.

00:36:19.088 --> 00:36:25.215
And all of a sudden you go to the power skating clinic and they're all there and they go oh, I you know, oh, you know he just decided the end, but I think it's just.

00:36:25.536 --> 00:36:36.056
But it is so funny how you know We've gotten to this point where and John, you brought it up like everybody's trying to keep up with you what the other guys are doing, and then it just snowballs out of control and I think, I think it's.

00:36:36.056 --> 00:36:48.664
I think we're at the point right now when we're, when we're talking about setting, like setting the standard of where, where I've got to get to, and missing the boat and having an opportunity that we're in this world that we never like.

00:36:48.664 --> 00:36:49.027
I don't.

00:36:49.027 --> 00:36:59.472
I play some really, really good hockey players and I don't remember ever they're a group of dads sitting behind the glass saying like, oh my god, you know, have you, have you started looking at this program?

00:36:59.472 --> 00:37:07.010
For, you know, because those four kids are going there and I need these three kids to play with these three kids so they can get a scholarship somewhere, like it just.

00:37:07.731 --> 00:37:10.137
And to John, it became, it's become.

00:37:10.137 --> 00:37:14.391
You know, obviously the money, but it's gotten, it's got.

00:37:14.391 --> 00:37:15.733
Now, listen, there's no.

00:37:15.733 --> 00:37:22.489
I just saw an ad for 2018 team, right, so 2018, select team, uh of you know.

00:37:22.489 --> 00:37:23.893
So you think about 2011.

00:37:23.893 --> 00:37:24.916
You think young, right?

00:37:24.916 --> 00:37:26.467
2018?

00:37:26.487 --> 00:37:26.728
team.

00:37:26.728 --> 00:37:28.474
Did you say 2018?

00:37:28.905 --> 00:37:31.443
2018 select program right.

00:37:32.246 --> 00:37:32.786
This is.

00:37:32.806 --> 00:37:44.456
This is this is they're five, they're five years old and they're being selected, selected and, and, and and and, groomed Right for the, for the real team, which is the, which is the next year, which is the six-year-old team.

00:37:44.456 --> 00:37:47.614