Are Skills Clinics Worth It? : A Parents Guide to Navigating Extra Ice

Lee MJ Elias [0:07 - 0:46]: Hello hockey friends and families around the world. And welcome back to another edition of your favorite podcast, Our Kids Play Hockey. It's Lee Elias with Christie Casciano Burns and Mike Bonelli. Guys, listen, we're recording this one in the late spring time, although the topic is applicable year round. Skills clinics, they're everywhere. Skills clinics are everywhere. They're in magazines. If you read magazines, they're on the Internet. You get ads from skill clinics. Skills clinics. Skills clinics. Let's talk about it. Are skills clinics worth it? Let's give a parent's guide talking to you parents to getting the most out of that extra ice. Okay, so let's just start. And again, this sounds like funny, but what is a skills clinic? 

Christie Casciano [0:46 - 0:46]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [0:46 - 1:00]: Like, Mike, I'm going to start with you on this one. Let's just talk about what should a skills clinic look like? Because if it's just like all the skills, that scares me a little bit, right? What, what should you be looking for in a good skills clinic? 

Mike Bonelli [1:01 - 2:02]: Yeah, when I think some people hide the name skills clinic in just like a conditioning skate. Like you're just skating hard and there's a lot of shots and passes. Right? But I think a true skills clinic is when you can define it as the skill that you want to develop and then that the curriculum and the syllabus and kind of the focus is on that particular skill. So if it's a shooting clinic or a passing clinic or a checking clinic, whatever that skill might be, there's a focus curriculum revolved around it rather than just a total skills session, which is really just sticks and pucks, that's more expensive with somebody supervising the drills. Right. So I think, you know, think about when you define a skills clinic, when you're looking for the definition, you're looking for specific grouping of the skill that you want and need and you know, and then, and then finding the person that's running that, that actually has the ability to teach those skills. 

Lee MJ Elias [2:02 - 2:03]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [2:04 - 2:09]: And have people in place that can show the proper skill that you're trying to learn. 

Lee MJ Elias [2:09 - 2:52]: I want to see when I'm going to, I want to see defenseman's clinic, goaltending clinic, power skating clinic, passing clinic, shooting clinic. I want to see that involved and then I want a list of. Here's the specific things we're going to be working on. All right? If the, the, the call out on the brochure is free jersey, really great extra stuff like you're going to a summer camp, okay. That's what you're going to. You're not. You're not going to a skills click, by the way. Nothing wrong with summer camp, but have an expectation out of that. All right. The. The swag stuff is not key. All right, Leads us into the next question. Are they worth the time and money? Gonna go to our resident mom, Christy Casciano Burns on that one. 

Christie Casciano [2:52 - 4:54]: Yeah. Do your homework, do your research. Ask other parents about the clinic before you sign up and lose your shirt over it. Okay, so let's say I'll take my son for an example. He was a year before we wanted to try out for the high school team going into eighth grade. And we went to. He was on a travel team. Joey wants to travel the high school team. Great. He's got all the skills. What does he need to work on stick handling? We have no good stick handling clinic. There's one coming up in the spring. Check it out. Here's the contact information. We put him in that stick handling clinic. What a difference. It's interesting because it's just focused on stick handling. And it was fantastic. Huge improvement. You started to see him leading stand up posture improves his hand, eye coordination improved. He was able to carry the puck much easier. His passing was fantastic. Great improvement. What I liked about this clinic is it was a group setting. Small group, one on one, really. No place to hide. You couldn't blend in. Eyes all focused on your kids. I sat in a couple of them because I was curious as to how they conducted themselves. And a lot of one on one with the kids. They would also videotape the kids at the end of the session. They would show the kids, here's what you're doing wrong, here's how you should be, and here's where your position needs to be. Big improvement. That was definitely worth it. But in that case, we did our homework. We asked other parents, how is this clinic? How much does it cost? Are there enough, you know, time with. Is there going to be time with instructors? Is just going to be of a bunch of kids. Okay, let's see how you shoot. Go up and down the ice. No, it was very good. So, yes, they can be worth the time. Yes, they can be worth your money, depending on the clinic. 

Lee MJ Elias [4:54 - 5:18]: You know, you're reminding me of a quick story here, Christy, that when I was probably 13 or 14 and I was a. I was a very good skater at that age. And I remember, I don't know if I asked for it, if my parents did, but we went to a. A skating skills clinic. Okay, Specifically about skating. And I was young enough to first be thinking, well, I'm pretty good at skating. Like, I'm not. I don't know if I'm gonna get. 

Mike Bonelli [5:18 - 5:19]: Anything out of this. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:19 - 5:28]: And then I remember being, for some reason, really shocked there were no pucks on the ice when we got there. I remember being told, there's not going to be any pucks on the ice. 

Mike Bonelli [5:28 - 5:28]: Check. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:28 - 6:57]: And then I remember, first off, they. They really skated as hard, and I was getting tired, and I remember thinking, wow, I'm really tired. And then they had to start doing things that I couldn't do. And I remember, I. I can remember the drills like, and this was a long time ago. I love admitting that. But this is a very long time ago now. And I have never forgot those drills that I could not do. To me right there, it was worth the investment. Now, the other key point here is this. And. And this is going to vary from kid to kid and family to family. I wrote down what I couldn't do, and I really started to work on this on the ice when I could, or on my rollerblades at the time, or some way tried to figure out how to continue after the skills clinic to get better at the skills I couldn't do. I think that's also part of the. The takeaway of the roi. People say, what's the roi? What's my kid going to learn? Part of the ROI is what they can't do when you're done, but they know they can't do it. Right. I always say when it. Again, whether it's skills clinics or even private, private instructors. Right. You want to uncover things that you can't do. I think there's the misconception of, oh, I need to be leaving with something, which is also true. Don't get me wrong. Your skills should improve, but there's a lot of value in leaving with, wow, I'm not good at this thing, and I need to get better. There's tremendous value in that. Right? So that's another thing. Is it worth the time and money if your kid goes in there cocky like I did and leaves with 10 questions that was worth time and money? 

Christie Casciano [6:57 - 6:58]: That was worth it. 

Lee MJ Elias [6:58 - 7:00]: All right. Yeah. Now. Now, again, if it's something you think. 

Christie Casciano [7:00 - 7:03]: They should remember the drills all these. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:03 - 7:05]: Years, I can't believe, you know, I didn't realize it. 

Christie Casciano [7:05 - 7:06]: Impressive. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:06 - 7:14]: Yeah. Like, I remember some of these drills. Right. It was a good clinic, had an impact on me. I mean, I guarantee you this. Clinics I went to totally forgot about. Totally forgot about. 

Christie Casciano [7:14 - 7:15]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:15 - 7:28]: And by the way, this clinic Another thing, another memory just popped up. I don't want to say the name because I. I don't. I don't remember if I'm correct or not. The jerseys they gave us were so horribly cheap. So horribly cheap. But the hockey stuff was so good. 

Christie Casciano [7:28 - 7:29]: That's really. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:29 - 8:27]: Who cared about the jersey, right? So time and money, you know, it's the ROI Right. But let's redefine what ROI is. Right? So you're getting what you learn. Yeah. Right. The next question leading into this. Is my kid ready for clinics? Well, look, I think, you know, I'm gonna go to you on this one, Mike. I. I don't have a problem with clinics. If there's a skill you want to work on and there's a good clinic in town and it's affordable and your kid and all his teammates are going, I. I do think that you're ready for it. The. The. The crux of it. The. The thing you got to watch out for is are your friend. Are they just going out there and hanging out and talking the whole time and not learning anything? I don't want that either. Like, and it's a little bit of a mix. I mean, you want to be with your friends, but when you're on the ice, you're on the ice. Right. Make sure you're doing the work, because I'll tell you, with my kids, I'm not paying for you to go out there and just talk to your friends the whole time. You better be working. But, Mike, what's your thoughts on when you're ready for a clinic? I don't. I don't really think there's any age that's too young. Just depends on what you're learning. 

Mike Bonelli [8:28 - 9:00]: Yeah. I don't. Yeah. I think it's kind of. Kind of very similar to private lessons in. In this way. Right. That, you know, if it's a specific skill you want to work on with a group of people, and it keeps the cost down, and it's not a drill clinic, where it's just, like, drilling, like, get in the corner, do your drills. Get a good sweat on. You know, Dallas Daryl Belfry, who we've had on, you know, has some great, you know, great feedback about that. Skills. Clinics can't be just, Did I get a great workout in? Like, did I. Did I make the kids sweat? Did it look like they were busy? 

Lee MJ Elias [9:00 - 9:00]: Go to the gym. 

Mike Bonelli [9:01 - 9:35]: Those are kind of red flags. You know, my kid was busy. Okay, well, did he learn anything? Like, was there an actual skill taught? And I think that's really where you have to start looking at. If your kid's ready for that, then they have to be able to. You know, it is hard. It's not, it's not easy just to sit there for an hour clinic and pay attention. So make sure your kid could pay attention. They could be in there and they can respond, you know, to sometimes a lot of talking and a lot of showing and a lot of, you know, maybe it's not all just, you know, gung ho the whole 60 minutes. It depends on the skill that you're trying to teach. 

Lee MJ Elias [9:37 - 10:46]: 100%. 100% agree. All right, let's. Let's keep moving on here, right? How to choose the right clinic. We did talk about this already in terms of the skill size, but I also think it's important. Okay, let's say you've identified a clinic that, okay, great, great skills. Want to do this clinic. There are 4,672 kids Sign up for this clinic. Don't go to that clinic. All right? The group size matters. All right? The focus matters. Because I'll tell you what, if the small group at the clinic is 15 kids or let's. I mean, what, Mike, what do you think is too much? 10, maybe 10 plus? You know, I think, I think groups of eight is about as large as I'd want to go. Really? Groups of four to five is where I think your sweet spot is in terms. If you're doing some station based learning, you got to see how many people are signed up. Because I can tell you right now, if there's too many kids out there, good chance this is a cash grab. Okay? You know, it's tough for coaches. You only have so much space and so much ice, but you gotta, you gotta limit it. And the truth is this, the better the coaching, probably the more expensive it is because you're gonna probably have less kids out there. But group size matters, right, Mike? 

Mike Bonelli [10:48 - 11:43]: Yeah, Well, I think it's just. It's like it depends on the skill, right? So it depends on how you're teaching. I've seen check in clinics with 60 kids on the ice, and it's really effective because they have enough coaches, enough help. The kids are matched up by skill and the space is small. They don't need a big space. So it all depends on the skill clinic you're going to, but certainly making sure it's staffed properly, making sure that the student to teacher ratio, instructor ratio is, is high or low. I don't know which way that is. But if it's it's just, it's in a way where, you know, it's to your point. It's like 1 to 4, 1 to 6 is, you know, a good number. You can't have, you know, one coach out there that teaches 60 kids. Shooting is not an effective class. Just isn't. One main instructor with seven different people helping his curriculum certainly is something I, I would, you know, think would be beneficial. 

Lee MJ Elias [11:43 - 11:44]: Right, right. 

Christie Casciano [11:45 - 12:33]: And be careful too. There, there's some clinics that may try to use a star power to try and get you to sign up. We fell for that one here. So, I don't know. Trying to think. Sophia might have been eight or nine years old. It was in the summer. She was kind of bored, like, oh, I miss hockey. And we got a phone call from other parents saying, hey, there's this really great clinic. It's being put on by one of the local star hockey players. It's a week long and it's going to be fun for sign. You should sign Sophia for this. It's going to be a riot. All the kids are doing it. Riot should have been cautionary. A red flag for me. So, okay, so we sign her up. I signed her up. The next day, the player is in my driveway knocking on my door to collect the money. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:35 - 12:36]: Right. That's crazy. 

Christie Casciano [12:36 - 13:20]: The kids were excited because here's the star hockey player in our driveway to collect the money. Like, oh, no, this is not good. So we sign her up. I'm like, reluctantly, and I'm thinking this, it's got all these red flag, cautionary flags. I'm like, okay, let's just do it. So we get there and he's late. He's got high school kids out there who really are not into watching a bunch of 8 year olds on the ice. It was a free for all. They're throwing, I don't know, beach balls out in the ice, kicking around. They're having a ball. But as far as learning anything. No, no, no. They got a cheap jersey too. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:20 - 13:23]: Yeah. There's an after school program is what that sounds like to me. 

Christie Casciano [13:23 - 13:24]: Exactly. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:24 - 13:25]: Keep them occupied. 

Christie Casciano [13:25 - 13:42]: Careful. We do sign up for some of these that sound really fun and exciting. It might just be fun and exciting to, to see, but not. You're not really getting any. Any and your money's worth anyway. It's buyer beware. Lesson learned. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:43 - 13:52]: We talked a lot now about what to look for, how to. I think we've, we've, we've successfully discussed how to identify a good clinic. 

Christie Casciano [13:52 - 13:53]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:53 - 15:22]: All right, now let's talk about getting the most out of that clinic. All right, so there's. There's going to be the on ice instruction. Okay. Hopefully you have a conversation with your kid about having an open mind and if you can't do something you want to learn and that, there's going to be a lot of things here that you haven't seen before, and that's great. So the on ice portion, that belongs to the coaching staff. It's the after clinic time. Parents again, no, car ride's not for coaching. We've talked about this, but maybe asking your kids at home later on, hey, what did you learn today? What did you go over today? Hopefully your kid's excited to talk about it. Hopefully your kid's excited. I learned this and I did this, and I can't do this. And I always. I always say to parents, maybe encourage them somewhere to write that down. Just document what you want to work on. Ask great questions. You'll get great answers. How can we work on that at home? You know, and maybe your kid will say, look, if we get this training aid, we can do it at home. I don't have a problem with that conversation. Like, if it makes sense, right? The. The training better. Well, if we buy the newest NHL video game, I can work on my gameplay. And they know that that is not what I'm looking for. Right, but how do you get the most out of a clinic? Right. I think you got to set expectations. You should encourage feedback at the right time. And then it's again, reinforcing what they learn. Because I'll tell you what, with that story I told before, Christy. What I remember, I remember the drills, but I worked on these things after the clinic. And again, look, I can't tell you why I had that drive. I don't know where that comes from. I've always had it. But I worked on it after. I wanted to build on it after those takeaways. I think that's how you get the most out of it. 

Christie Casciano [15:22 - 15:28]: Inspired you then, too. Was it the instructor inspirational to you? 

Lee MJ Elias [15:28 - 15:52]: I remember actually feeling uncomfortable because again, my bubble was burst. I was the best skater on every team I'd ever been up to that point. And suddenly people who knew stuff that I didn't know. And I think that for me, I mean, look, the instructors were. Were great. I don't remember having a negative feeling during the instructors. I do. I do remember being uncomfortable that I couldn't do something. But that drove me. Like there was something in me that drove me up. Why? I want to know how to do this, I just always wanted to know. 

Mike Bonelli [15:53 - 15:53]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [15:54 - 16:50]: Probably comes from my parents, too. Like, just the way I was brought up. Okay. But that yearning for I want to be better was there. Right? So I think that it's important to encourage again, you cannot create that. You can cultivate that through good questions is helping your kids get that feedback. You know, why? What. What was uncomfortable today? Look, I'll ask my kids sometimes. Here's. Here's one for you guys. I'll ask my kids every once in a while. What'd you fail at today? Yeah. Just to put it on the table. Tell me something you failed at today. They don't love answering that question, but I want them to know it's okay to fail. All right? And again, parents, most likely, you're watching the skills clinic. All right? You're gonna see your kids falter. I'll tell you right now, I wouldn't go to your kid and be like, I saw you sucked at this thing. You should work on that. No kid wants to hear that. All right? Which. It's just how you approach that. It's like, hey, you know what? That drill looked really hard, period. They'll probably talk with you about it then. 

Christie Casciano [16:50 - 16:51]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [16:51 - 16:51]: Okay. 

Christie Casciano [16:51 - 16:58]: Go back to when they first started skating and they fall down and they get mad at themselves. I'm so mad. I felt, no, that's good. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:58 - 16:58]: That's good. 

Christie Casciano [16:58 - 17:01]: It means you're learning. Falling his gun at this point. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:01 - 17:03]: Yeah. I was just talking to a mom. 

Christie Casciano [17:03 - 17:05]: Back up and keep going. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:05 - 17:10]: Just talking to a mom whose kids. And learn to play. Which is. Which is essentially a clinic. 

Christie Casciano [17:10 - 17:10]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:10 - 17:32]: And the younger of the two children is. Was crying on the ice, and when they went up to her, they thought, oh, she's not doing well with skating. Right, Right. And it was actually because she couldn't keep up. Like, she wanted to keep up with everybody. And the question was posed, like, should I pull her off the ice? I said, no, leave them on the ice. Are you kidding? Let them chase. This is how you learn. This is how you grow. 

Christie Casciano [17:33 - 17:36]: All right, so parents are so quick. Right? To fix everything. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:36 - 17:37]: Let me help. Let me help. 

Christie Casciano [17:37 - 17:38]: Yeah. No, no. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:38 - 17:57]: Deal with it. Deal with it. You know how many skaters. I'll just say this real quick. I'll throw it to Mike. The. Some of the fastest skaters I've ever met are younger siblings because they chase down their older siblings. Some of the best goalies ever. We talk about this. Are goalies because they were the youngest, and they got thrown in the net. 

Christie Casciano [17:57 - 17:57]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:57 - 17:59]: You got to let it play out. 

Christie Casciano [18:00 - 18:01]: Let it play out. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:01 - 18:03]: Let it play out. Mike, how do you get the most out of a clinic? 

Mike Bonelli [18:05 - 19:02]: Yeah, well, I mean, well, number one, Chrissy says this all the time and I think we need to, you know, listen to that advice is do your homework. Don't, you know, really be, be conscious of if you want to get a lot out of the clinic, then sign up for the right clinic. So I think it's just a matter of knowing, you know, you know, what the clinic is, when it is and then, and how it does it fall like within the season, you know, is it, is it, is it during the season? Is it out of season? You know, hockey I know is year round at this point, but is it, you know, is it benefiting my child in the, the role that they're asked to play right now or is it something better off, you know, kick can down the road a little bit and, and do it when they're not overwhelmed with their other five day a week commitment to hockey. So it's all just a matter of, you know, really looking, you know, a good clinic to me is something that teaches a skill that you need and inspires you to want to continue to learn that skill. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:02 - 19:03]: I love it, man. 

Christie Casciano [19:03 - 19:25]: Right, well, and just be careful not to load up your kids in the summer. We talk about this all the time. You know, even NHL is take a break during the summer. Don't load your kids up with clinics all summer long. Give them some time to breathe and to enjoy other sports. You know, how many times have we talked about the benefits of a multi sport athlete? Let them have a chance to be a kid and play. Don't load them up in the summertime. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:25 - 19:50]: Yeah, Chrissy, I'll say this on that note real quick and then we'll kind of go to our final section here. There's so many parents and so many kids too that kind of jump right into spring league. And again, I really, I don't want to crap on spring league. I, I don't. All right, Because I, I, when I was older, especially when I was older, late teens, I loved it, I really did because it was, it was kind of a let loose, put your hair down time with your friends just to have fun out there. But I was a young adult at that time. 

Christie Casciano [19:51 - 19:51]: Sure. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:51 - 19:54]: You know, when I see it with like the squirt and peewee. 

Christie Casciano [19:54 - 19:54]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:55 - 20:27]: I don't find many parents and kids after spring league that go, oh, that was great. I love that. You know what they say is like, we probably should have taken a break yeah. You know, and. Yeah, because here's the thing. I. I don't know if it's FOMO or what, but it's just. You're in the season, right? And it's just such a grind, and then it really does abruptly end. And I think that, you know, the camaraderie, there's a lot of positives that happen during the season. The family that you're with, you want it to continue, you don't want it to end, but you, you gotta let it end. 

Christie Casciano [20:27 - 20:27]: No. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:27 - 22:09]: Right. Because spring league, at least the ones I see are a effin mess. They're a mess. All right, again, I. I just want to preface this again, because there's people who know me, who listen to the show. I'm not trying to trash on it, okay? It's. It's just. I just don't see a tremendous amount of value in it. Okay? That's me personally. You can feel free to disagree. Summer league, a little bit of a different thing. Okay. If you haven't played spring league now you've had some time off. All right, that one makes a little more sense to me. But that's if your kid wants to do it. All right, final thoughts here. Okay, I do want to talk about this, right? It's keeping the big picture in mind, right? It's how is a, a clinic going to help you accomplish your big goal? Right? Whatever that big goal is. I want to play in the NHL, the pwhl. I want to play college hockey. I just want to get better. How is it going to help you accomplish your big goal? That's probably a conversation you should have with your kids, because when they go into the clinic, you want them to have that perspective, too. And parents, look, I'm often surprised myself, and Christy, I'm like, you can actually probably talk to this more than I can, but, you know, my kids hear me more than I think they do. Right. The problem is they often share that knowledge when I'm not around. And it gets back to me. I can't tell you how many times I've got calls from teacher like, oh, your. Your son's doing this team building stuff. And really, I get that. I was like, he is. You know, he's doing it. I'll ask him. He's like, well, yeah, I'm always watching you do it, right? Or. Or I'll see my kids coaching somebody else, which I try and tell them, you don't have to do that yet. Okay, so just the big picture in mind, right? Let's go around the horn here, and then we'll close this out. Mike, I'll let you go. I let you have the first one in this one, so Christy gets the last one. But what. What are your thoughts on the big picture, you know, for. For skills clinics and hockey parents? 

Mike Bonelli [22:11 - 23:02]: Yeah, I think. I think pick and choose what you need and when and think about how it enhances your player season, if you can. If you can think about, you know, what are. What are the things you can add in at that fit into your schedule and they can enhance maybe what you're not getting. And this might be more of a, you know, a negative on the youth programs, but you know that you're in season team. But if you feel like you're missing something from your coach and you're missing something from the organization, that it's a great way to fill that gap. And, and. But you. You must do it in the context of, is it really benefiting my player? Is it allowing them the proper rest and work ratio? Is it inspiring to want to come back and learn more? And if you can do those things, then I think you're barking up the right tree for the right reasons for clinics. 

Christie Casciano [23:03 - 24:04]: Exactly. Yeah. Is it benefiting them, or is it going to burn them out? Is it worth the investment? Because it really is kind of an investment if you think about it. You're spending time, money, energy for a whole week devoting to this clinic, making sure that the instruction is a good level, quality instructors, that there's enough staff, the ratio is proper with the instructor and the kids. So if all of those elements and it checks all those boxes, then, yeah, do it. But if you're just doing it because everybody else is doing it and your kid's really not going to benefit, your kid doesn't want to do it. Take it right off your. Your. Your list of things to do. Take it right off, and you're not missing out. Don't have the fear of missing out. Embrace the joy of missing out. Embrace Jomo. Okay, there's a new one for you. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:05 - 24:05]: Jomo. 

Christie Casciano [24:05 - 24:08]: We're gonna have to put that Jomo. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:08 - 25:35]: Everybody, we're gonna get that T shirt made for you. Christy, that's the Jomo T shirt. No. Great, great, great points by everybody. Look, I'll just say this, too, Christy. Hockey is already expensive enough. So if you're gonna do this right, make sure that. That you know what you're doing. And if not, the Jomo was there for you. The Jomo. The Joma. All right, gang, listen, great episode. Parents again. Hope we gave you some just great insight to kind of ask the questions of is something worth it? Or help you at least have a guide here of how to approach a skills clinic. Above all, kids, gotta love the game, gotta enjoy the game, gotta enjoy the aspects of it. And hard work should be part of that equation. And that's what Skills Clinic should build for you. Build that toolbox. All right, if you have any questions, comments, thoughts you agree, you disagree? Email us team at our kids playhockey.com or click the box accompanying this episode in the description. You can text this directly. All right? Otherwise, enjoy your hockey, Enjoy your time. We'll see you on the next episode of Our Kids Play Hockey, everybody. For Christie Casciano, you know Christie Casciano Burns and Mike Bonelli. How many lies so long. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kids playhockey.com also make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey stops@when hockeystops.com. it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.