Building a Hockey Town: Howard Dolgon on the Syracuse Crunch, Community, and Chasing the Dream

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 1:15]: Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome to another episode of our Kids Play Hockey. Never gets old saying that. I'm Lee Elias, joined as always by Christy Cashiana Burns and Mike Benelli. Our guest today is someone who proudly proclaims, I love being in the hockey world. Howard or Howie Dolgan is the founder, owner, president and CEO of the Syracuse Crunch, the American Hockey League affiliate of the Tampa Bay Lightning. You might have heard of both of those teams. Since bringing the team to Syracuse in 94. That's 1994. Howie has not only established a thriving franchise, but also helped define what community based professional hockey can look like. It's going to be a great lesson for us all. Under his leadership, the country have built a reputation for innovation, including hosting the first outdoor AHL game in league history and drawing a record setting crowd. And insert the inside, excuse me, the Syracuse University Dome. Off the ice, his impact is just as significant, recently earning him induction into the both the Syracuse and New York State hockey halls of fame. He is a visionary, a builder and a hockey lover through and through. Howie, welcome to our Kids Play Hockey. 

Howard Dolgon [1:16 - 1:19]: It's great to be here finally to have you, finally. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:20 - 1:55]: Right, right. We can say, well listen, anytime we have an executive of your level on here. It really is an honor. And to the families listening, we're going to get a great masterclass today. Not just into the hockey world, but community development. But Howie, let's start with this. Your team just wrapped up another great season. Average attendance north of 5,000 fans per game. And the HL, that is amazing. Back in 1994, you bought the Crunch after many other teams have tried and failed in the area. What made you want to own a hockey team? What was it that made it a tough sell at first? And how did you succeed in Syracuse? 

Howard Dolgon [1:56 - 2:01]: Well, probably the night before I decided to go for the team. Probably drank a little too much tequila. 

Lee MJ Elias [2:03 - 2:06]: A lot of great decisions are made when that happens. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [2:06 - 2:07]: For the rest is history. 

Howard Dolgon [2:07 - 4:44]: You know, we grew up in Brooklyn, you know, very blue collar, you know, lived in an apartment building when I was real young. My brother and I shared a bedroom and my parents actually slept in the living room right upon the couch. So sports really kept us occupied. We played everything in the street from punch ball to stickball. We actually played tackle football on the street. But it was a group of about five to seven guys and all we did was play sports and talk about it. Like we thought we could manage the Metro Yankees, we thought we could coach the Knicks or the Rangers, and we Always had this feel that we were more than just fans, that we were, like, passionate about getting involved in a game. So for me, I grew up. When I got into high school, I took my first journalism class and I really connected with it. And I wound up working for the school newspaper in high school. And then in college, I majored in English with a minor in journalism. And I decided I wanted to be a sports writer. And so I moved out to California, you know, after college, thinking that I'm going to land a job. And I wound up interviewing three days a week, unloading trucks to make money and being on the beach the rest of the time. And about six months went by, I came back to New York. I had a job at the sports department of the Associated Press and really learned a lot about the business. You know, covered a little bit of boxing, which was another passion of mine. And then I made the transition about three years later into pr. So instead of, you know, you know, reporting on news, I was kind of creating it right for clients. And. And I did that for a number of years, became a partner in an agency. We were really growing the business. And in 1993, I had a client named Black Velvet Whiskey, which is part of the Uber line portfolio. And I was asked to negotiate a sponsorship for the sponsorship for the brand with the American Hockey League. Now, at the time, I think there were 14 or 16 teams in the AHL. They were probably primarily east coast, and they were in eastern Canada as well. And the person I negotiated with was a guy named Bob Arabo, I think. Chrissy. You've met him. 

Christie Casciano [4:44 - 4:45]: Yes. 

Howard Dolgon [4:45 - 10:59]: And Bob was director of marketing for the league. It wasn't much of a marketing department. And we did the deal. And then about six months later, I get a call from him, and he says, you know, I know you're a big hockey guy. I had Ranger season tickets since 1972, my brother and I. And there's an opportunity in Syracuse to work in a building which is really removing asbestos and putting in a new ice surface. But it's a great location because they had teams at the time in Adirondack, Albany, Binghamton and Rochester. So Syracuse was a missing piece. And they've got a group called Ice the Future in Syracuse, which was led by a guy named Brian Elwell, who had played there for a number of years with the Blazers, had settled down, opened up, I think, a nightclub and a restaurant. But they had nobody who could, you know, it was community driven, but they had nobody who really could go out there and, you know, put it Together and. And Brian really did a great job. He was reaching out to teams, NHL teams that owned their own franchise to come to Syracuse. But, you know, he didn't have an owner locally. So I went up there, I met with him. I met with Nick Pirro, the county executive at the time. And I loved the market, right? And it made sense. But we kept hearing, why you want to go there for, right? Like, they had four teams in 10 years. It failed. And the more I heard that being, my personality was like, I love this challenge now. Like, if it worked there, what do they need us for? Right? Like, the sport was started to really grow. Gary Bettman had become commissioner of the NHL the year before, the Rangers were making a run to the cup, and, you know, magazines like Sports Illustrated was putting hockey on the COVID for the first time. And I said to myself, you know, for years I had taken brands like Wheaties and Gillette and MasterCard and promoted their events and build their brands. Maybe I should try to do one with my own, which would become the Crunch. So we treated the team as a brand and said, we're going to promote this brand like we promote a world title fight in boxing. That we did. So we came at it. It was a much different approach than people were doing back in the 90s where they were back then. It was strictly, you know, put the game on and hope the hockey's good. And so when we came to town, even before we secured the team, there was a lot of, I want to use the word fanfare around us, and a lot of that we had generated with our PR background. People were talking about what we had done in the past with those clients. And the market kind of got excited about us as a group and started to believe that, hey, if these people get the team, then maybe it can work at Syracuse. And I know I'm speaking a lot as a background, but it took us 13 months from our first visit in Syracuse in April of 93, and I went up there and it was snowing. Like, I got up there, we landed and it was snowing. Yes. You know, and then 5-5-94 in Boston, we got the green light that a team was coming. And then we played our first game September 30th. So if you look at it, we had four and a half months to build an infrastructure, you know, learn ticketing systems, which actually, the first game at that time, our capacity was, I think, 63, 20. And our ticketing system, I mean, we. We screwed it up with 6,900 people in the building. But Nobody complained. We're just so happy that hockey was back in town. And that's cool. Yeah. And the one thing for sure for me was there was a fair amount of skepticism. And I kept being told a line that kind of laughed at was, well, you know, Syracuse only supports winners. And I'm like, listen, every market wants a winner. It doesn't make Syracuse different. But if we give them value and the entertainment is good and we care about the community, then people, people wouldn't want to come out and watch. And after three or four years of people thinking we were leaving every year, oh, are you leaving? I heard you're leaving. People were spreading rumors, it was so unfounded. Like my mother, may she rest in peace, was living in South Florida, and somebody posted something on the board that I was visiting my mother in Fort Myers and negotiating a lease building there. There were people in town that wanted us to fail, a very small segment that didn't want hockey to succeed. And, you know, now, you know, it's tough when the season ends for a lot of reasons for us, you know, one is we love the hockey and it's, it's really demoralizing to our staff and our players. Two, economically, it's better for us financially to keep playing. But three, the saddest part is watching the fans faces when they know they have four months without hockey. It's sad. They leave and they're like, what do we do now? 

Lee MJ Elias [11:00 - 11:08]: Right, right. Sometimes missing it, though, is the key to loving it again. Right. But I know exactly what you're saying, but I think fans would go year round if we let them. 

Mike Bonelli [11:08 - 11:09]: Yeah, yeah. 

Christie Casciano [11:09 - 11:17]: A credit to you, though, because you're right, it was a bit of a tough sell. And Syracuse is known as the basketball town. 

Howard Dolgon [11:17 - 11:18]: Right. 

Christie Casciano [11:18 - 11:51]: So you were able to find this, this undercurrent there. There was all these hockey fans out there, and everybody responded because you were filling a need. And the Crunch games are so fun. And part of the fun, too, Howie, is your affiliation with Tampa Bay Lightning. You've had several affiliations with NHL teams. I gotta tell you, the Tampa Bay Lightning affiliation has been so exciting. Tell me about that. And what kind of talent has come through Syracuse because of it? 

Howard Dolgon [11:53 - 13:35]: Well, we, we started with Vancouver, which we were very thankful for. George McPhee, who's still probably one of my closest friends in hockey, was the assistant GM, and we spent six years and went out with Columbus for 10. And Doug McLean, who is the president of GM, he's still a great friend. We had dinner last month in Delray Beach. We had a blimp for two years with. With, regretfully, with Anaheim, we weren't treated well. And ironically, you know, they wanted to extend their option for three years. And I called the GM up in February when he sent me a fax that we'd like to extend because it was a mutual agreement. And I'm like, bob, it was like, you got to be kidding me. The way you treated this market. There's no way. And it should be a lesson to them. But, you know, I knew Julian Briswe, and to me, one of the best executives in sports, who was the AGM at the time, to Steve Iserman, then became the gm. And what's so great about them is how humbling they are. And I'll never forget the first time they came to town when we announced the affiliation. You have Julian, Steve Eisenman, Pat Verbeek, John Cooper was going to be our coach. And they came in, we had a media get together. And Steve Eisenman is arguably a top 10 player of all time, right? And just a quiet, thoughtful, great individual. And one of the media guys says, I need to take a picture of you together. So he said, steve, go in the middle. And he said to me, no, no, you go in the middle. 

Christie Casciano [13:35 - 13:35]: Wow. 

Howard Dolgon [13:35 - 17:58]: And it just shows you just that alone, their ownership, with Jeff Vinick, their new owners. You talk about players that come through because they don't take shortcuts, developing talent. You know, we have more coaches than, than we've ever had. We have strength coaches, we have nutrition, we have skating coaches. You know, there's never a time when we have a home game that somebody within the Tampa organization is not at a game. And I remember when they won the cup, the second time in Tampa, we were at the game. Myself was there. You know, it's easy for me because it's a four hour drive, but Vance Lederman, Jim Cerossi, our entire coaching staff was there, who they flew down their entire scouting staff. And then going into the locker room, the area they created an area outside the locker room, a big area which was filled with food and alcohol. And it was for the, the. The friends and family of the players, right? And with 10 minutes left in the game, we're sitting in the suite and I get a text from Julian's secretary, Liz Kaharski, and she says, if we're fortunate enough to win, it was one, nothing. If we're fortunate enough to win, wait till the couple is the ice. And you're going to go on it. You're going to be Led to a separate elevator. And you're going to go down to a room where you'll be able to celebrate. So of course we're excited. And they pull the goalie, Montreal, but Tampa wins the game. One nothing. We go downstairs eventually and the room is beautiful. And we think, you know, the players are probably in the locker room celebrating within five minutes. Music goes on. Stamkos, they're all in their uniforms and the flip flops Stamp coast comes out with a cub. And Andre Pollat sees Vance and I and yells at the top of his lungs the word Syracuse. And we get the biggest hugs from him and Kuchuff and Vasilevsky and to talk about the players that came through, those are just some of them, so many. Alex Colon, you know, Braden Point, you know, Ross Colton, who scored that goal to win the Cup. And the first words out of Palat's mouth was the town of Syracuse when he saw this. And a good feeling they had from being with the Crunch and from living in the community. And that was just unbelievable to me. They just won the Stanley Cup. And to embrace the cup and to embrace us as a team and as a city was unexpected. And it was actually brought tears to our eyes. It was great. And Julian, when he presented my ring the first time, and I was very fortunate to get the same ring they gave the players, which was mind boggling both times. And Julian called me into his office before opening game of that next season. And the ring is, it's in a. It's in a huge box that when you open it, they have a highlight video of them going on to win the Cup. And Julian, rather than just give me the ring, he actually spoke for a while about how meaningful and how they could not have won those rings without what happens to Syracuse. And it's amazing because we are really the envy of a lot of teams in Ali because of the relationship with Tampa, which doesn't guarantee we're going to win, but it does guarantee they're going to care about what happens to Syracuse. And that's important. So, you know, it's been a wonderful 13 years already, for sure. 

Mike Bonelli [17:59 - 18:39]: You know, Howie, you. All those things are. We know as sports fans, right, that the minor leagues are the building blocks of all these player championships. It can't just be all through free agency and, you know, buying players at the top. You have to build those players. One of the people that were able to build and grow and become a champion was John Cooper. And can you talk a little bit about how hit. How you saw in him or if you did, you know, the things that he was doing in Syracuse and the way he was conducting business, the way he was working with his players, that you could have seen that man, this guy, this guy's going to be something special. And I can see how he had success still with the big club. 

Howard Dolgon [18:40 - 21:25]: So Coop is one of a kind of. He is so unique, his, his rise to the success he's had. You know, he was a lacrosse player in college, he went to law school in Michigan, was working for a judge, and the judge needed a coach for his son's team. And Cooper never coached. And he, of course he wasn't saying no to the judge, then went on to coach and he, you know, the USHL in Green Bay and was a pivotal part of their promotional program. And when Julian was looking for a coach, he got a call from an agent and said, you probably never heard of this guy, but you need to interview John Cooper. And so Julian had respect for the agent, did an extensive interview. And with me, with Coop, I've spent. Because he was only with us till March when he got promoted. I spent a lot more time with, you know, right now with Joel and grew and with, with Rob Zettler. But the one thing I struggle with Coop, I've. The players would go through a wall for Coop. I've never seen a connection, a, an emotional connection with an athlete and a coach than with Coop. And that's what's special about him. I mean, a lot of people could do the X's and O's, but there's so much confidence and belief in him and how he supports his players and how he treats them equally. Like you'll watch a game where Nikita Kucherov was one of the greatest players in the world, gets benched for a period and because, you know, he wasn't doing what he should in the defensive zone or he made a ladies in the past. And the entire team, including the player who got benched, respects Coop for how he treats them. And they love him. I mean, they, they. And you can see they'll, they'll play for him and do whatever it takes. And especially at our level when the players are a little more impressionable, coaching to me in the developmental stage is, is, is more critical than when they get to the NHL, you know, because the habits that they form, they have to be good habits now, you know, from junior hockey or college, even at the, at the mites level, you know, that's critical. 

Christie Casciano [21:27 - 22:41]: I have a great John Cooper story. So, Howie, you were kind enough to loan Me, a couple of players when my Puck Hog, the Puck Hog series, the children's books, came out, because Syracuse Crunch are featured in the book. And so I had a book signing at Destiny USA at the mall, and you loan me three players. So we're there at a table, we're signing books. Viewers are coming up. Hockey fans are coming up. We're having a great time. And then standing in line, I'm looking. I'm like, gosh, that looks like the coach. No, it couldn't be. He stood in line, he came up to the table, and he said, hi, Christy, I'm Coach Cooper. I said, I know who you are. What are you doing here? He goes, what time did my players show up? I said, right on time. Were they on time? Yes. Are they? And he looks at, yes, coach. We're here on time. Yes, Coach. And are they being good with the people? Yeah, they're fantastic. Are they signing books? Yes, they're incredible. He came to the ball to check on his players, to make sure they were on time and doing what they were supposed to do. That was John Cooper. 

Howard Dolgon [22:42 - 22:50]: That's why he wins Stanley Cups. They coach the four nations. That's why I'll be the Olympic coach. It's the little things, right? 

Christie Casciano [22:50 - 22:50]: Little things. 

Howard Dolgon [22:51 - 22:51]: Incredible. 

Christie Casciano [22:51 - 22:52]: I was shocked. 

Howard Dolgon [22:53 - 22:56]: Yeah. And he's teaching his players to do the right thing. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:57 - 24:18]: You know how I'll bring this up, too, that from a culture standpoint, what you said, so many coaches, and this is for all the youth coaches listening, even the parents. I think, especially when you're. When you're early on in your coaching career, you can forget the connection point because you're. You're sometimes so internalized. Well, I know my tactics, and I know what I have to do. And the truth is this is that I think sometimes there's fear from coaches to get to know their players because you may have to bench them or you may have to cut them, or you may have to make tough decisions. But what. What you're saying and what I believe about John Cooper is that that connection is sacred to him, no matter what he has to do. And I think that especially in youth hockey, we need to take more of an approach with that where the tactics are great. But even if you're a young coach without children, the connection you have with your players is important. Yeah. And the trust that you build with your players is important. And also when I say trust, it's the trust of, I may have to bench you. Like, you know, I have conversations with my players all the time of I will always be honest with you, even if I have to do something you don't like or that I don't like. I'd like to see more coaches kind of lead with that mentality. And look, the proof is in the pudding, right? The two time Stanley cup champion, three times Stanley cup appearance. I mean, you know, the proof is right there. And, and I think that especially when you look around the league now, the, the more successful coaches are actually coaching that way. Go ahead. 

Howard Dolgon [24:18 - 24:21]: Yeah. No, no, and, and like, you know, when Cooper retires, he's gonna be a. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:21 - 24:25]: TV star right there, big time. Yeah, already is. Yeah. 

Howard Dolgon [24:25 - 24:47]: I think in life, like, in life in general, we all have trigger points. Right. There are things I know that if somebody says to me, reminds me of something in my life that may not have gone well and it sets me off. Right. And I think nowadays the effective coaches understand their players from a personal standpoint better. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:47 - 24:47]: Right? 

Howard Dolgon [24:48 - 25:08]: Yeah. You have to treat players equally in discipline in that, for sure. But there may be some players you have to take a different tact with based on what they've gone through in their life. There are hardships that, you know, some players go through that others don't. There's issues maybe in, in within the families that the people, right. 

Lee MJ Elias [25:08 - 25:10]: They're people, they have people problems. 

Howard Dolgon [25:10 - 25:19]: And the good coaches kind of get to know their players. And I think Coop is one of them. I think Joe Bard is one of them. Joel is, he's good. 

Christie Casciano [25:19 - 25:19]: Yeah. 

Howard Dolgon [25:19 - 29:27]: He is special. He is passionate. He. I, you know, and I see, I love emotion in the coach, right. And, you know, seeing him on the bench and then in the, I, I, when I'm in town, I'll go to the room after every game just to see Joe and the coaches. If I bump into a couple of players, it's more of hello or, you know, quick conversation. But with Joel, it's always, let's sit down and, you know, talk about the game, who you liked, who you didn't like. What do you need, you know, what can we do to help make your job easier? And obviously with Jim Tirozzi there, there's never anything they need because Jim does what he does. And then extra, I mean, you know, you know, between him and Vance and Megan and the staff, you know, we make it as easy as possible for the coaches to play. And that's important. Right. Because see, here's what people fail to realize, I think. So if you're a basketball or football player at SU, right, you're 20, 21 years old, more than Likely, right. As a sophomore, even as a, maybe the freshman nowadays, right? And you go to live in a dorm and your meals are cooked for you, right? And you've got a tutor and chances are you played or lived in a city that was the same size as Syracuse or more than likely bigger, right? Then you get the hockey players, right? A percentage of them don't speak the language fluently. They come to Syracuse, they're 20 years old, they have to find places to live in a new city that more than likely a lot bigger than where they came from or played their junior hockey. They got to get their own bank accounts, they've got to get vehicles. I mean, we help them with that. And they're starting on an initial three year journey, which is their entry level contract that may dictate if they get to live their dream or not, right? They've all dreamed since they're five years old to be professional hockey players in the NHL, right? And if after three years, maybe four, they haven't gotten extensive time in the NHL, it's. The odds are that they won't. I mean, some of them do with other teams like Yanni Gord's a great example that wasn't drafted with the East Coast League. Tampa liked him. Sign him at the end of the year and look where he is now. Right? But that's the more the exception in the rule. And I think people fail to realize that they do all this stuff by themselves. They're not getting the meals in the cafeteria or where the college players eat. They're not getting the tutors, you know, to help them, you know, they're, they're training, they're traveling, you know, they're playing games and they're still 20 years old, 21 years old. And like I always say, like, if you're an accountant and got your degree and you're at a firm for three years and it doesn't work out and they let you go, you'll get a job in another accounting firm, you'll stay an accountant for the next 40 years unless you choose not to. But in pro sports and hockey, if in three or four years you're not an NHL player, you know, that's a major thing on your head. And I often, I know a lot of people don't understand it because they don't live that, but that's why, you know, I think the role of the coach and the support staff around these players is super critical. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:27 - 30:26]: So, Howie, that, that actually brings me to a really great question that you're alluding to it. I think this next question is going to be perfect for youth hockey coaches, parents and players, right? You're in a unique position where essentially everyone who's ever played for the Crunch, follow me here. Doesn't want to stay on the Crunch, right? Every player wants to make it to the NHL, right? So you're in a position, again, where almost every player you have doesn't really want to be there. At the end of the day, they're trying to get something better. It doesn't mean they don't love Syracuse. It doesn't mean they don't love playing for the Crunch, but that's not the end goal. I think most youth hockey coaches are dealing with this quite a bit right now. Where, yeah, you made my team this year, but there's always the next level or the next thing you want to get to. So as an AHL team, how do you deal with that? How do you make Syracuse a place where they're proud to be there, while also understanding that their goal is to not be there? How does the team compartmentalize that to become so successful? 

Howard Dolgon [30:27 - 32:26]: Well, we understand that for sure, and we want them to, to move on. And just like we mentioned about, you know, the palates and the Kuches and the vases, you know, hundreds of others over the last, you know, 31 years have gone on, and we're very proud of that. And then you've got, you know, the Daniel Walcott types, right, who, who had put down roots in Syracuse, bought homes, married a local girl, had a baby. So it's a fine line. But, you know, our goal overall is to make them the best player. So they could go on and play for Tampa. They could be so good that they become an attractive trade bait for Tampa to get a player that could help the Lightning. Now, we've seen that a lot, right? So the good part about that is we're in the same situation as 31 other teams in our league. So if we can create an atmosphere that gets that player better, quicker, where there. And it has to be a degree of patience from the parent club not to move up. Like I'll give you, for instance, like, Kanage made the team at a training camp right, In Tampa, and he was just better than. Than other players, right? And the attitude with Tampa was, we're going to field our best team. Halfway through the year, they saw that his development wasn't what it should have been, and they sent him down. So he spent 20, 25 games with us, learning all aspects of the game, playing 20 to 25 minutes instead of playing 10 minutes. And because kind of geeky in the NHL, he's got to be a top six forward. He's not a bottom six guy. Right. So if he's playing third or fourth line in Tampa, 10 minutes a game, that's not what you. You're wasting you. Your development on him. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:26 - 32:26]: Right. 

Howard Dolgon [32:26 - 32:32]: And he came back, played in the playoffs for a couple games for Tampa and was actually one of the better players. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:32 - 32:34]: Right, Right, right. 

Howard Dolgon [32:34 - 32:47]: So would we have loved to have him from day one of the season? Of course we would have. But every NHL team is going to feel the lineup that they think is their best lineup. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:47 - 33:38]: Well, what I love about what you're saying, and we talk about this on the show all the time. Right. Is within youth hockey, there's always this question of do I go to the AAA tier one team where I minutes, or do I go play on the double A team where I'm going to be, you know, a starting player and get more minutes? And again, I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer to that question. It totally is dependent on situation and. And where you're living in a lot of different factors. But I love that you're saying that, that at the NHL and the ahl, they recognize that. That this player, who should be a top player needs more minutes. They send them to the AHL to get those minutes and develop and bring them back. I don't think you said the parent club is patient. I don't think parents are patient enough with that type of methodology. Right. And it's a question we get all the time from parents, Howie. It's like, I know Mike and I feel that question all the time, where should I go? What should I do? 

Howard Dolgon [33:39 - 35:22]: The toughest part is you get. Parents are living through the kids we see in every sport. And, you know, I had a situation even with my middle son. He was an all state football player. He was a nose tag on the center. But his height, he wasn't tall enough for D1. Right. Which. Which was crazy, but it was what it was. He was never gonna be an NFL player. So he was recruited mostly by D1 double A's and by Ivy League schools. And we visited Penn Prison, Cornell. And my son was a good student, but he wasn't a Ivy League student without football. Right. So at the end of the day, I said, listen, you got to go to school where you want to go. And he had visited a University of Maryland as a student, and he loved it. And he got in and he said, dad, I want to go to Maryland. I'd rather go in as a student. They offered him a walk on as a player with no scholarship. And I said, you know what? It's your life, right? So he went to Maryland, wanted to break in his scaphoid bone before freshman. And that was the best thing that happened to him because he, he, he didn't play football and had a great college life. And now he's married, two kids, doing what he wants to do. And I saw another parent who I knew, whose son was a quarterback on that same high school team, and he pushed his son into a terrible situation in college. The kid was miserable. Kid dropped out after a year, and it affected the kid's life for a number of years after. And I think parents, you know. 

Mike Bonelli [35:25 - 35:25]: Parents. 

Howard Dolgon [35:26 - 36:04]: Probably need to take some sort of seminar to teach them. And hindsight is great, right? But you want your kid to enjoy playing, right? Because how many, how many ever make it, right? It's amazing how few. And, you know, if, if you want to your kid going to the next level so you can tell your friends that, hey, my kids on this travel team, and he's in Boston one weekend and. But he's sitting on a bench. Is that the best thing for the kid overall? 

Lee MJ Elias [36:05 - 37:22]: Right? Well, I say a seminar. They listen to this podcast. I mean, that, that is one thing. Yeah, yeah. But I'll say to you, just on the point that you're bringing up how, you know what we always. The advice we always give parents, because the truth is this, it can be hard to realize sometimes as a parent that you're even doing that. Right? Because everyone, I'd say 99% of parents are coming from a place of deep love for their children, Right. Whether they're living through them or not. You know, we love our kids, right? So what we always suggest to parents is maybe ask the kid what they want or ask the kid if they're having fun. I mean, I can't tell you how many times a parent said, well, we're miserable. Well, your kid smiles every time they're on the ice. The kid loves their teammates. So are. Are we miserable? Like, have you talked to your kid? And actually, to be fair to parents, they're usually pretty honest with me of like, no, I haven't. I say, parents, talk to your kids. Talk to your kids. And, and make sure when you talk to the kids, like, this is you guys, a lot. It's not a leading question of, hey, you know, I'm really upset here. Are you upset? That's not a good Question. It's just a bland, hey, how you enjoying the season? You enjoying the hockey? Like that, that's the first step, right now. If your kid says, I'm miserable, that, okay, now you have to have a conversation. All right? But I, I, I think just. You're right. I think you said it before. Parent clubs are patient. Parents have to be patient. 

Howard Dolgon [37:22 - 37:40]: You don't get your youth back. Right? I mean, we all look back at the years when we were kids, right? You even look back when we were in our 20s, 30s, and, you know, let kids be kids. Yeah, Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [37:42 - 38:48]: I just had a question really quick. Just, just staying with the Syracuse Crunch for a second and then that, that transition from, you know, you come in and you're in a, in a new city, you're in a, in a really high stress situation as a player, young kid, out of college, or maybe you didn't go to college, you came, you know, from Europe and you want to make the big club. Can you just talk a little bit about, you know, those players that are in the AHL that don't always get to stay up with the NHL club? I mean, I know, like, locally we have our star here, Steven Santini, who's up with you and watching him now mature into like this senior member that's tasted the NHL. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, how impactful those type of players are to your young players when they come in and, you know, how they contribute and then, you know, how we can maybe mirror a little bit of that, right, with our high school team or our, our college team and using those upperclassmen, those players that have, you know, kind of gone through the gauntlet, know what it takes to get there. Maybe they haven't gotten there, maybe they haven't gotten the, you know, the full ride, but how influential they are to you as an owner. 

Howard Dolgon [38:48 - 39:00]: Those players are the hardest to find and probably the most important. Right, because you mentioned Santini, who, who's played a number of it. He's still a call up guy. 

Mike Bonelli [39:00 - 39:01]: Oh, yeah. 

Howard Dolgon [39:01 - 42:42]: He could get up there and play, you know, and that hurt you. And, but yet he's a quieter leader in the room, right? And he does everything right. You know, he, he trains, right. He leads by example. He's, you know, you know, says the right things. And the younger players, you know, need to see that, you know, Gabriel Dumont, who's been our captain, you know, who has come back from some horrendous injuries and continues to work hard, train, you know, the tough part, and Julian told me this once we had a captain for a number of years, Mike Angelides. And Andrew was a great, great leader. Just a great leader. And he was getting to the point in his career where he just couldn't keep up. He couldn't skate at the level he needed to be. And Julian, we. We talked about what, like, he's great to bring him back because of what he brings in the locker room and his leadership. But Julian said to me something I'll never forget. He said, the problem you have, it's tough to lead if you can't play anymore. Like, if you're. If you're relegated to playing five or six minutes a game, it's tough for players to follow you. It's a difficult situation. But the guys who, you know, realize they may not be NHL is anymore, but could earn a good living in numerically because, you know, those players are. Are getting paid, you know, a fair amount of money, especially in a market like Syracuse, to live. To live very well. You know, they're hard to find. Like, they're hard to find. And, you know, because they're high character, they're important to the coach, they not only lead in the room, but they'll. They'll say, hey, let's go to my house to watch the super bowl, get the team over, or let's have Thanksgiving over because they're a little. They're older, they may be married, they may have some kids. And the younger players who can't go home for Thanksgiving or for Christmas or who miss the family, they bring that element. And that's important. Right. And from a hockey standpoint, you know, they teach you how to play the right way and the little nuances that they've gained over the years, you know, if you want to call them, the tricks of the trade they could pass on. And, you know, it's interesting, if you look at a dressing room, coaches will put certain players next to certain other players, and there's a method to that. And when we travel, will get from the coaches the hotel list of who to room with who. And again, there's a method to that as well. So I guess to answer the question is those guys are hard to find, like, they really are, and they're hard to give up on when they get to the point where they may not have a lot left in the tank as players. And those are really difficult decisions for gm. You know, when do I cut bait with them? Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [42:42 - 43:46]: Right. You know, Howard, I want to. I want to turn the conversation a little bit. I had a great time, a great opportunity to drive up to Syracuse to meet with my friend Christy here, probably a few years ago now. We were releasing a new book that we worked on together. And one of the things that was. I'm going to use the word unexpected because I. I travel quite a bit, was how much I loved the city of Syracuse. I mean, I really enjoyed my time up there. And you know what, it's funny, the weather wasn't even that great, but, you know, Christie showed me around and like, you gotta. I gotta feel for the community. And I was like, wow, this place is really unique and special and. And I always nod to Christy. We got to go into the arena. I think it was the off season, Christie, but we got to walk around the arena and, man, I love that barn too, because it's. It's, again, it's so unique. Right. You can. You could tell stuff happens there. So I actually want to throw it to Christy about the community. Right. And about Syracuse and how the Crunch affect that community. Because while the Crunch are successful, Christy. Right. It's. It's so far beyond the hockey. 

Christie Casciano [43:47 - 43:52]: It is. And you were really impressed that scenes from Slap Shot were shot. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:52 - 43:57]: Yes, I was outside the building. This is where it happened. This is where that movie happened. 

Christie Casciano [43:58 - 44:00]: Where the movie happened. Paul Newman was in our film. 

Howard Dolgon [44:01 - 44:02]: I forgot about that. 

Lee MJ Elias [44:02 - 44:06]: We recorded a video of me saying, right outside, we'll see you tonight at 8. 

Howard Dolgon [44:06 - 44:07]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [44:07 - 45:18]: Well, Howie, I think. And you can chime in here, too. What? And I think parents and youth hockey coaches can really take a page from the Howie Dolgan Syracuse Crunch playbook about the importance of giving back. I mean, the Syracuse Crunch game nights, they open it up to so many charitable organizations. They have military night. You know, hospitals and nurses get recognized. You know, our healthcare heroes, they really make the community stars of the show as well as hockey, which I think is why so many of us embrace it. And your players are so generous. And they'll go to schools, they'll share the importance of reading. They'll talk about that moral code you need to have as an athlete, too. So they're really part of the fabric of Syracuse. And I think that's such a great lesson for youth hockey coaches and players that you gotta look outside of yourselves and figure out ways that you can also be better citizens. 

Howard Dolgon [45:19 - 45:46]: No question, our players, they. They continue to amaze me. You know, they. They asked to go out and read books at the library, to go to the hospital. We had one player who had made a connection with a young cancer patient that was unbeknownst to Us even he had met at an appearance and would. Would go up weekly on his own. 

Christie Casciano [45:46 - 45:47]: Wow. 

Howard Dolgon [45:47 - 50:47]: To see the young man and brought him to a game and got to know the family and, you know, this, the community. Like, I've been coming up to syracuse now for 32 years, right? And I think I average, average 60 to 70 nights a year. So if I do the Math, I do 70 times 32. I'm at about 2200 days in Syracuse. That's about six, seven years of my life full time. And the people have just been wonderful, from checking into the hotel to walking down the street or going to a restaurant. Everyone's got a nice thing to say. People love living in Syracuse despite the weather, right? Really, it's amazing. And I never get tired of we're out to dinner of a fan coming out and talking about the team. I think we can't forget that's who we are, right? And we're part of the community. Before we actually played a game, we created the Crunch foundation. And we created a foundation so we could give to different charities, different organizations. And again, in every game, we have something where we raise money for the foundation so we can give back. And whether it's doing events like Pride Night or Military Night or, you know, like you said, first responders, every opening night, what we try to do is have a player come out with somebody special. So we did teachers, we did doctors and nurses, we've done police and firefighters, we did youth hockey. Parents to, you know, who've done a lot for the sport because they're critical. And all of these players, their moms and dads who had to rink at, you know, five in the morning and minus 10 degrees, so they get it, you know, so they go out and they give free instructions. We'll go to different, you know, you know, youth hockey leagues and help the coaches, you know, so it's a wonderful community. The support from the county executive down to the ledge to the corporate support, to the media, to the fans has been wonderful. I mean, we're very fortunate. You know, I call Syracuse the Green Bay of hockey because even though in Green Bay, the fans own the team, our fans act like they own the team. And I think that's the greatest thing you could have is when you, when your supporters have that kind of passion that, that they think the team is theirs, that, that, you know, they feel connected in a way that is harder to feel if you're a Ranger fan or Montreal Canadien fan, right? And we've tried to accomplish that, to create an atmosphere where we sit with the fans during the game, we talk to the fans between periods, and a lot of them are, like, shocked that we're not sitting in a suite and we're having a conversation. I had one person from another team, a fan of another team came up. I won't mention a team. And he said, we never, ever see our owner at a game and you're talking to fans. He said, I wish we had that, but we enjoy it. Like, we're fans. Like, when we started the team, we talk about the background in Brooklyn. Like, we didn't create this team as a business, although that's what it. Essentially, it is. We did it because of a passion for the sport, and the passion is as significant now as it was in 94. You know, it really is like, I. I can't imagine my life without the Crunch. It's become who I am, which is. Which is pretty interesting. You know, when I meet people, people introduce me to their friends, hey, he owns the hockey team. He owns. And it's kind of like, it was weird at the beginning, honestly, because you get defined by that. But honestly, I'm. I'm, like, proud of it. Right? I love the Crunch, I love the city. So if that's how people want to identify me, have at it. Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [50:48 - 50:49]: That's beautiful. 

Howard Dolgon [50:49 - 50:49]: And. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:49 - 51:04]: And look, that's. That's that, you know, sorry, AHL ownership. That is so important, right? Because I don't think the team succeeds without someone like you at the helm, where this is just, you know, it's a business opportunity or it's really cool to own a team. Like, you love the city, you love the people, you love the team. 

Mike Bonelli [51:04 - 52:26]: Oh, no, I was just gonna say just from. From a hometown perspective, like these small market, you know, AHL teams in the. In the. In where strategically located are so important because it is, like, the lifeblood of that community. Right? When. And again, you know, with hockey, I think, you know, we joke around, like, we keep thinking everybody's a hockey fan, but there are very few hockey fans. It's just those hockey fans are so passionate. I mean, they're, you know, so like, I go. I go to Mass Square Garden a lot. I'm like, I see the same 18, 000 people every single game. It's like, not a lot of new people, just a lot of really passionate people. But I think you know what you're doing. You know, from my understanding, you know, listening to Christy and. And watching the Crunch and what you do, community wise, you're branching out to a place where you're probably getting all these people that don't even know, like, wouldn't even have associated themselves with hockey, but they're associating themselves, you know, with the brand. They're associating themselves with the, the, the fun being in the arena and you know, building that history and, and I guess it helps to have, you know, a team like Tampa Bay that, you know, leading the helm, right, because they're winning and it's a high profile program. But could you just talk a little bit about, you know, how, how you think, like, you know, coming in and hearing from those community leaders. Like you said, you're an active, you know, engaged owner. Why isn't that in, in every organization? Like, why isn't that a part of, you know, every minor league program? 

Howard Dolgon [52:26 - 53:39]: So it's, it's been our mindset from day one. Like Chris, you see, you know, Vance later been my oldest friend of, we walked to first grade together in Brooklyn and like, we pitch ourselves still, like this is what we do. And Vance, I always say that I know that there's a mayor mayoral election coming up. Advance ran. He would win. He would, in a landslide. He would win. He is. And he told me something which was really, you know, we're so close. We're like brothers. And when we had no fans in the building during the COVID season, we're on the phone one day and he said, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm mentally depressed because the games for him, he's walking around, he's, he never watches the game because he cannot walk three feet without somebody grabbing him to talk to him. Right? And they just love talking to him. It's, it's, I, I, I, I, I try to walk with him and I'm walking and I'm talking and then I, I notice he's not answering me and I look back and he's like 20ft of back. 

Christie Casciano [53:40 - 53:42]: He's like the mayor, but he's like. 

Howard Dolgon [53:42 - 58:11]: And so we have a formula, right? So for minor league hockey, like, we've kept our price point low. Like we're probably in the bottom three in pricing. So we're probably a little too low to be honest. We've been ultra sensitive to the market, but we've been able to keep our price down because we've got great corporate support, right? So we're getting the, the dollars corporately. So I'm allowed to, to limit my cost of my fans, right? But the first, usually the first point of entry is a group ticket, right? So people are Going with their Boy Scouts or with their company or an organization, and they go in and 30 or 50 of them and they have a. We hope they have a great experience, right? So a group, so maybe a company may buy a group twice a year, three times, but they'll say, hey, I had a great time. I'm gonna go to a game with my wife or my husband or my kids. So now they're buying a single game ticket, right? They love that. And they say, you know what, it's cheaper if I commit to a 10 or 20 game pack, right? Because the more you buy, the price point comes down. So that's step three. And then step four is they buy a four season ticket for us. We need to just get you in the building because I own you. Then for two and a half hours, we could create the atmosphere. We know the hockey is going to be exciting, but all the other bells and whistles, that's what's critical. And to feel that you walk out of there and you've paid 20 or 25 bucks, which is not much more than a movie. And a movie could be terrible, right? And in a movie, just sitting there, here, you're up, you're cheering. And the one thing about hockey, a friend of mine pointed this out to me, a very close friend, somebody asked him what the beauty of sports is. And he said, here's what it is. And to me, it's more important now in the world we live in than ever before. And I'll be very blunt about this. He's an African American. My friend, very dear friend of mine, he said, if, if, if an older white woman is walking down the street and sees a young black teenager in a hoodie coming in that direction, instinctively, she will cross the street. Just instinctively, right? Because the world we live in. But if they're sitting in an arena rooting for the same team and that team scores a touchdown or a goal, they are high fiving and hugging each other. That's what sports does. It brings people of different political beliefs, different ethnicities, religions, sexual preferences together in that passion for that team, right? And if we can do that, we've accomplished something significant. That those three hours that people get away from all the crap that they're seeing and reading about and all the bigotry and the hatred and anti this, anti that, this can be their solace, their safe spot to enjoy. To me now more than ever, it's a major accomplishment. You talk about the fans. So I've been sitting in the same seated arena throughout the 31 seasons. And above me there's an aisle, and then there's another section. And it was a. When, when we first started, there was a young couple and they had a baby. And over the years, they went from one daughter to two to three, and they come to the games, and now one of the daughters are bringing her young. And I've watched a lot of these kids grow up in the building, and now they're bringing their families and the game is great. Don't get me wrong. I love the game. I could watch hockey 24 hours a day now with the playoffs, we get to. But there's something special about watching people interact and enjoy themselves. And if we could be part of creating that atmosphere, I think that's. That. That's, again, personally, that's very rewarding. 

Mike Bonelli [58:11 - 59:09]: You know, that's why we put people in sport, right? That's a definition of sport is because you. It doesn't matter what color you are or what race you are or anything. It doesn't matter. It's. It's. You can succeed as a. That's why the military is so successful, right? Because they can, they can, they can work together. It doesn't matter. If you can help me and I can help you, and I love you and you love me. That's all that matters. And I think that's where. I think that's why we put our kids in sports, is to, you know, find those commonalities where you can compete and, and battle and, and, and be on a team. And, and, and so it's. And, and. But, but I think, you know, from, from my perspective, I mean, it sounds like you're. You're extending that into the stands. I mean, you're extending that into the rest of the community, which is really, you know, what these community programs are basically about, you know, in, in, you know, in the fabric of our society. So I think it's great. And, and, you know, we've heard nothing but great things from Christy from her time living in the town, you know, about, you know, her experience and what. 

Howard Dolgon [59:09 - 59:17]: She's funny right now. It's not to interrupt you. So you're talking about the players. So my phone is ringing now. I know, Chris, if you can see the name on here. 

Christie Casciano [59:18 - 59:21]: I can't see it. I don't believe. I don't. My cheaters on. 

Howard Dolgon [59:21 - 59:29]: It's a captain of ours when we were with Columbus, whose remainder friend is Zen and Kanapka. Wow, okay. And you remember Z, right? 

Christie Casciano [59:32 - 59:34]: He's on the phone right now. 

Howard Dolgon [59:34 - 1:00:24]: He's calling me now. We. He was actually. When he played on the island, when I was living there, he came over for Thanksgiving with another player because he had no. Yeah. So, yeah, it's one. It's wonderful. And again, he's a guy who had a great experience in Tampa, in Syracuse, comes back every time we ask him, you know, and it's funny, we had players come back, I think, a few years back from the original team. We had Mike Fountain, Brett Tully, Brian Loney, Mike Pekka, John Baduk. And when Jim Sorosi calls them up, there's never hesitation if they're available. They want to come back because they want to be back in Syracuse, too. They really have fond memories of how they were treated, not just by the organization, but by the city. Yeah, yeah, it's great. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:25 - 1:00:27]: You know, Howard, I want to bring. 

Christie Casciano [1:00:27 - 1:00:29]: This up back after we're done. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:29 - 1:00:32]: Yeah, we'll just take the call on the air. The fans, our listeners, would love that. 

Christie Casciano [1:00:32 - 1:00:33]: Take it out of the air. 

Howard Dolgon [1:00:33 - 1:00:34]: Howard. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:34 - 1:01:44]: I want to go full circle here for a minute. You know, when we started this episode, you talked about growing up in Brooklyn and dreaming, and. And I so connected with you on that belief you had as a young person that we can do this. We. We want to do this. We're talking about hockey. We can coach hockey. We can be part of hockey. I love it when young people, especially kids, have that dream. I think dreaming is so important. As long as you understand that there's work that has to be done, that nothing's guaranteed, and you can have this dream, and there's no guarantee it's going to happen. But this is where we come full circle. We said it in the open. You're in the Syracuse hall of Fame. You're in the New York hall of Fame. You did it. You did it. You had this dream. You persevered and you did this. And. And you've got rings as well. So I want you to reflect on either. The hall of Fames is that you're in hall of Fames is the halls of Fame that you're in. And maybe talk a second to the young Howie as a kid that was dreaming this. You did it, right? We got a lot of dreamers. And he made the COVID of the local magazine. Listen, listen, man. Like, we got a lot of kids that listen to this show. 

Christie Casciano [1:01:45 - 1:01:45]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:01:45 - 1:01:59]: And they're. They're dreamers. All right? And you did it. You did the work. What would you say to the younger version of yourself who's got that dream right, where, you know, everyone's telling you'll never do that. There's no way you can do that. You did it. What do the kids need to hear from you? Right. 

Howard Dolgon [1:01:59 - 1:03:41]: I'll be very honest with you. So, growing up in Brooklyn, I was no angel. I went down a couple bad paths in my life and could have gone in a really bad direction. You know, grew up in a really tough neighborhood. Fighting became almost an everyday thing for me. And my passion for sports, both playing it, but never at a high level, but my interest in probably saved me. And having that passion for something, whether it's sports or something else, and being driven to at least do the always. I was always big on potential. Like, you know, everyone's got great potential, but some people are too lazy to. To pay the price to reach it. Right. And you see with athletes and you see with executives. And for me, even as a younger person, I was never going to let a lack of effort cost me from getting to where if I wasn't going to make it, it was going to be because I wasn't good enough, not because I didn't try hard enough. And that would be the message. If you can walk away saying, I did everything I could, then you should always be satisfied, even if the result isn't as high as you want it to be. Because to me, the worst feeling would be I'd watch people quit and say it was too hard. And I could never accept that. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:03:41 - 1:03:42]: Right. 

Howard Dolgon [1:03:42 - 1:04:25]: And, like, I'm not done. Like, we need to win a cup in Syracuse, like, that. That. That drives me. And hopefully at one point, getting a new arena is. Is something that the community, I believe, deserves. And. But listen, I. There were times where I pitched myself and I say, you know, I've been very blessed to live the life I've had. You know, certainly professionally, personally, we all go through hardships. And, you know, I've learned that life is full of endings and beginnings. Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:04:25 - 1:04:25]: Right. 

Howard Dolgon [1:04:25 - 1:04:53]: And, you know, we all go through things that are difficult and things end, but if we. If we harp on that, we. We can't take the next beginning. And no matter how old we get or how young we are, that next chapter is exciting, you know, and we've got to embrace it and, you know, wake up every morning feeling like we've been blessed. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:04:53 - 1:05:05]: You know what? When I reflect on my life right now and. And, you know, spoiler alert. I'm probably the youngest one here, although nobody considers me young anymore. What has astounded me. 

Christie Casciano [1:05:06 - 1:05:07]: I don't know about that. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:05:09 - 1:06:40]: Well, you guys like to fight. You can fight later about that. But look, what has astounded me, Howie, is. And we could just use hockey as the example, but there's. There's multiple examples. My love for the game has not ever waned. In fact, if anything, it's only grown. And, you know, when I talk to the young kids out there, I'm like, you know how much you love this game. You can love it even more than you do now, that. That is something I like to tell people, because you think it's like, oh, man, is this ever going to end? No, it actually. It actually grows. You know what I mean? And again, look, it's different for. Than love for children. Like, the love of your children. That's a totally different thing. But I have never stopped loving this game. And. And, you know, as I've gotten older and been able to reflect on it, there's a gratitude there as well, of my God that I've been gifted this love that is eternal. And I think that's showing through in you, sir, Not. Not just through your career, but in this podcast. I can see it in your face. We can hear it in your answers. You know, and I think that that is in addition to the. The camaraderie that comes along with team sports. That's the beauty of it. We're so blessed to have a love. You know, if you have multiple loves in your life, you're really lucky, right, to have a love like this. And again, look, the people on this podcast, this is why we do this every week, sometimes more than once, right? Because we all love the game so much. You know, Christie's kids are through the game, and she still shows up every week. You show up, Christy, I'm like, thank God she's here. You know what I mean? Because you love it so much. So, yeah, I just. But, you know, but we're gonna get to Rapid Fire in a second, which is Christie's favorite part of the show. 

Christie Casciano [1:06:40 - 1:06:41]: But I love rap. 

Howard Dolgon [1:06:42 - 1:06:42]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:06:42 - 1:06:43]: I just want to thank you. 

Howard Dolgon [1:06:43 - 1:06:51]: To have an advocate like Christy in the media, in the community is. Could not be understated. Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [1:06:51 - 1:06:52]: Thank you. 

Howard Dolgon [1:06:54 - 1:07:06]: You know, listen, she is so highly respected in her field in the community. Her track record, her credibility is. Is so high. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:07:07 - 1:07:07]: Right. 

Howard Dolgon [1:07:07 - 1:07:38]: That when she supports something and puts her words behind, helps what we do. Like, we're very thankful to you. And, you know, when she, you know, like, we'll do anything for her, but. But it's. It's rare, like, nowadays, it's rare and rare to find media people who feel and do the right thing for the place where they work and live. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:07:38 - 1:07:39]: Right. 

Howard Dolgon [1:07:39 - 1:07:43]: She's. She's an example that so many people can learn from coming into business. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:07:44 - 1:07:45]: That was so kind of you. 

Christie Casciano [1:07:45 - 1:07:46]: Thank you. 

Howard Dolgon [1:07:46 - 1:07:47]: It's true. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:07:47 - 1:07:49]: Continue the love fest for one second, and we will get. 

Howard Dolgon [1:07:51 - 1:07:52]: That's not even negotiable. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:07:53 - 1:08:07]: I'll tell you what, again, and I'm gonna pay Mike. Mike and Christy a quick compliment, and this is a cool thing. As much as we're friends and we do this together, I am such big fans of both of them, and I've said that to you both many times. Like, you guys are both such great mentors to me. 

Christie Casciano [1:08:07 - 1:08:08]: Thank you. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:08:08 - 1:08:22]: But it's. It's what Howie said. It's. It's such genuine people. Right, Mike. You're Mike. No matter what happens, you're Mike Christy. Yeah. So. All right, listen, before. Before we divulge into, you know, a crying mess, let's get to Rapid fire. Our favorite part. 

Christie Casciano [1:08:22 - 1:08:23]: I want to go first. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:08:23 - 1:08:25]: Do you want to lead it off? Yeah, I was going to say yes. 

Christie Casciano [1:08:25 - 1:08:28]: What are the rules again? He's got a one. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:08:28 - 1:08:30]: You got to answer about 30. 30 to 60 second answers. 

Christie Casciano [1:08:30 - 1:08:32]: Okay, ready? 

Lee MJ Elias [1:08:32 - 1:08:33]: Everything's rapid. 

Christie Casciano [1:08:33 - 1:08:43]: Howie, are you ready? This is the. Okay, let's go. Question number one. Your favorite moment in Crunch history. 

Howard Dolgon [1:08:43 - 1:09:20]: Go. Favorite moment was. It has to be the opening night, because that was the culmination of the start of a dream. And after the 13 months of hard work, it has to be. But a close second would have to be when Trevor Frischman scored in overtime in game six at home to beat Manitoba. And I remember, I think, one of your former colleagues, Doug Logan. Right, yeah. Came sprinting from 10 sections down and grabbed me in a bear hug. He was out of his money, so. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [1:09:20 - 1:09:21]: Two great moments. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:09:21 - 1:09:23]: That's your favorite moments for now. 

Howard Dolgon [1:09:23 - 1:09:23]: For now. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:09:23 - 1:09:27]: There's still time to grow some other ones. Mike, you want to take one? You want me to jump in? 

Mike Bonelli [1:09:27 - 1:09:36]: No, I'm gonna take the. The technical question. So what's. What's harder to pull off? You think an outdoor game or selling out the Dome? 

Howard Dolgon [1:09:37 - 1:09:55]: Outdoor game. Logistical. I mean, we had to build locker rooms. You're praying that it's not 50 degrees in Syracuse in February. We got to get the airspace cleared. When we had the. The skydiver coming out with the game puck, the ice had to be perfect, right? 

Lee MJ Elias [1:09:56 - 1:09:57]: I don't think about that. 

Mike Bonelli [1:09:57 - 1:10:02]: Is Tampa. Is Tampa hosting. Is there the outdoor game next year with Tampa? 

Howard Dolgon [1:10:02 - 1:10:04]: They've got a game outdoors. Ra. 

Mike Bonelli [1:10:05 - 1:10:10]: Any game. Outdoor Logistics. They don't have a dome or they will game was. 

Howard Dolgon [1:10:10 - 1:10:35]: It was so special. We had, we had a lot of help from the state. Like at the time, a young lady named Julie Minor was sending Schumer's right hand person in Syracuse. And we had a skydiver that was going to come in and drop the game, but of course we forgot to clear the airspace. So it was like three days before. And we called Julie up and she called Senna Schumer. That a hat. Within a half hour. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:10:36 - 1:10:36]: Wow. 

Howard Dolgon [1:10:36 - 1:10:48]: And. And it's funny, the night before, the skydiver was at the bar with us at the hotel. You know, we had Bobby Nystrom there and a bunch of other players and he was drinking. And I'm like, you know, you're jumping out tomorrow. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:10:48 - 1:10:50]: Yeah, that's why he was drinking. 

Howard Dolgon [1:10:50 - 1:11:15]: And he said, I've never missed a jump before. Well, I said to him, well, I don't want tomorrow to be the first time. And as he jumped, we had 15,000 people in the grandstands. And we're watching it and I'm standing with Vance and he's heading right to the grandstand. And Vance says to me, you know, we got $5 million in liability insurance and the guy lands the center ice. It was unbelievable. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:11:15 - 1:11:15]: Right? 

Howard Dolgon [1:11:16 - 1:11:19]: And that's the tone for, yeah, great event. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:11:19 - 1:11:39]: We'll need to find out what he was drinking. All right, the last, last rapid fire question, end of the episode here. You mentioned several big names we all know that have made Tampa. But let's look at the full, the full career here. The most surprising player to make it big from Syracuse, it has to be on Igor. Yeah, right. 

Howard Dolgon [1:11:39 - 1:11:56]: Because we got him at the end of a. He had finished a 25 game tryout with Worcester and our scouts liked him. And so Julian called the agent up and said, we'd like to sign him. And the agent said, give me a day. And I remember Julian said, no, no, you have to. Midnight tonight. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:11:56 - 1:11:57]: Wow. 

Howard Dolgon [1:11:57 - 1:13:03]: And they signed him. He finished the year with us. Played a couple more undersized. Nobody, nobody thought he'd be anything. And one of the greatest guys. And I used to laugh because Vance would always measure. They go back to back who was taller. Advance is like 5, 5. So. So Yanni's a couple, maybe an inch or two taller, but he's really short. But it was just so cute, the two of them, you know, but, but it's the most appreciative guy. And he, when, when they won the cup, we went down to the locker room. He was there and Ross Colton who had got called up that year. And they both went up to our coach, Benoit grew, and they said to him, thank you for making me the player I became. And that's something to hear that. And Ben. Ben. I remember being in tears hearing that. Thank you. I would not be here without you. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:13:03 - 1:13:09]: Wow, that's a great story. Well, the kid from Brooklyn. Thank you. We would not have done this episode without you. 

Howard Dolgon [1:13:09 - 1:13:12]: I know. Come on, anytime. You guys are great. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:13:12 - 1:13:27]: No, you're great too, Howie. I mean, we really appreciate the time. I know you're a busy man. And again, anytime, especially for our listeners, we have someone at your level, not just executively, but as a person, as a, as a character that's achieved what you achieved. It's really a gift for us. So thanks so much for being here. 

Howard Dolgon [1:13:27 - 1:13:29]: So kind of you. Appreciate that. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:13:30 - 1:13:35]: Yeah. Well, any final words? Christy, I got to give you a final word today. I can't just sign off without letting you say something. 

Christie Casciano [1:13:36 - 1:14:24]: Oh, thank you, Howie, for putting hockey on the map in Syracuse. And as a fan, as a friend, I so appreciate you and the team and your whole team. Jim Cerossi, Vance. Incredible. Our community would not be what it is today without you guys because you really bring life and spirit and, and as I said before, we take a lesson from you on how to do it right and to give back and to put what's important in our community each other. We care about each other more at the game, everything melts away. You forget about all the outside nonsense and you just enjoy each other and that's what it's all about. So thank you for that gift. 

Howard Dolgon [1:14:25 - 1:14:26]: Thank you so much. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:14:26 - 1:14:31]: All right, Good job. Sorry, Chris, I didn't mean to throw you on the spot there, but I knew I would have been remiss if I, I didn't, if it didn't allow you. 

Howard Dolgon [1:14:32 - 1:14:45]: I'm glad, I'm glad I figured out the. With your help logging in because Techn, I'm like, yeah, it's, it's, it's beyond my pay grade knowing how to even do. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:14:45 - 1:15:49]: We're a team here. This is a good time to shout out our, our producer, Caitlyn Reese, who always makes sure that we're getting go there. So I'm going to close this out. Howe, this has been a great addition of our Kids Play Hockey with Howie Dogan, the Syracuse Crunch. Remember, if you like this episode, all of them are available wherever podcast can be heard. And if you have an idea or a thought or a question that you want to ask us or have us discuss on the air. Email us@teamour kids play hockey.com or use the link accompanying this episode. You can ask a question, text right to us. We'll put it on the air. But for Mike, for Christy, for Howie, I'm Lee. We'll see you on the next Our Kids Play Hockey in Syracuse and around the world. Take care, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network or our website, our kids playhockey.com also make sure to check out our children's book when hockey stops at when hockeystops.com it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.