Our Girls Play Hockey: What Makes a Great Hockey Practice? Chris Howard of Ice Hockey Systems Shares

SPEAKER_02 1:15

This episode is powered by NHL Sense Arena. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of our girls play hockey. It's Lee Elias joined by Mike Vanelli and Haley Skimora. You know, guys, every coach wants better games, but every player also wants more ice time, and every parent wants to see improvement. Everybody wants something. All three of those goals start at the same place. Practice. Practice. We're talking about practice today. Those of you from Philadelphia, we're talking about what makes a practice truly effective. How should coaches design them? How should players approach them? What separates practices that simply fill an hour from the ones that genuinely change players? That's the conversation we're gonna have today, and it's an important one. I talked with Mike off the air before. It has scared me. How many coaches show up to practice, not just without a plan, but just winging it. I don't understand how anybody can do that. Hopefully, we're gonna remedy that today. Joining us to help with that conversation is Chris Howard from Ice Hockey Systems, a company that has helped thousands of coaches around the world build smarter, more engaging practices and better player development environments. So we've got an Olympic gold medalist, we've got a guy that works with those, we've got a master practice maker in Mike Benelli and some Schmo who's hosting this. Guys, I'm excited for this episode. Chris, first off, welcome to Our Girls Play Hockey.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Hey, thanks so much, Lee. Excited to be here and can't wait to have a fun conversation with all of you.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Yeah, no, this is it's great to have you too, buddy. Like I'm excited for this. We'll call a panel today because everyone brings something to the table in terms of making really great practices. Haley, I'm gonna start with you, right? You practice at every level, literally, from youth hockey to college to team USA to PWHL. Uh looking back, what did the best coaches consistently do in practice that made players better?

SPEAKER_04 3:13

Well, in my youth days, my dad was my coach. Um, and so he spent hours organizing practices. Like he he always had some sort of like compete in there, you know, and most of the drills, there was always some level of that where it really forced you to like play up and make sure you were like practicing your hardest.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

Um, and then we also did a lot of like game system stuff. So to make sure we were kind of all on the same page. So we would do a lot of like, you know, team structure. What did our forte check look like? What did face-offs look like, D zone, like different things like that. Um, and then just adding in games uh to make it more competitive and things like that. And then as you get older, obviously, you know, maybe it changes like when you're in college, like each day of the week is like a different day that you're focusing on stuff. Like it's harder at the beginning of the week, but then easier at the end of the week, and you're maybe focusing more on like power play, penalty kill, more systems-based. Then you get to the pro league and it's it's a whole different ballgame because it really just depends on your game schedule. Like at first you're practicing a lot and they're maybe like really high tempo. And then by the end of the season, you're pretty much just going out there to maybe get some skills touches in, uh, and maybe just to do power play, penalty kill, face-offs, and it's a lot slower usually. Um, so it really just depends. But I think, you know, the key is to have it organized, to have an intention in the practice, something that you are intentionally working on that you maybe notice in the game before. Uh, so I think those are all, you know, really important things.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Yeah, Ellie, we should say too, like a big distinction between pro practices, and I'd actually say like almost everything else, is that you gotta remember pro hockey players and teams are kind of paid to win, right? So when you have that, like the games are the key to that model, right? Not that practices don't matter, they're not important, but they're to correct things to be better in these games that you have to win. And people can literally lose their job if you're not doing a good job with that. But it changes the nature of how you would approach a practice in a pro environment. You're expected to come in with some of these things. I I love what you said though about the youth in the college environment, about it's not just about putting in a little bit of thought. I love that you said, well, my dad spent a lot of time on practices, right? I don't think this is something, I'm gonna throw this out to the group a little bit here, that you should be winging. All right. A lot of oh no, I put some thought into this. No, you put thought into picking the four drills that you do every practice and maybe changing up a little bit about how you're doing that drill in this practice. If you really want to coach well, you've got to put a little more than just some thought into your practice. You've got to take the time, guys. I'm gonna open this up a little bit. Like, I think at least at least an hour a week, I think is probably the appropriate amount of time. I think it's a good amount of time to dive into it. Who you know, Chris, I'll go to you real quick on that too. Just thoughts on like how much time should we be spending to create a practice?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Yeah, you know, like every single team in situations different. Like, I could have a U12 practice that is great for my team, but not great for another U-12 team, you know, and so uh it's hard to like kind of put a time on it. I think the key to practice is building connections. You got to be able to connect to your team, and you got to be able to build the practice to connect to your team's game and what you're trying to improve on. So I think instead of starting, like you never want practice to feel like five random drills thrown together, right? You want to start with the objective. What do what does my team need to work on? Where are they at in their development? Um, where are we at in our season goals? And kind of defining like what the objective is, and then building the practice, kind of starting backwards, stripping it down and building it up, and make sure there's connectivity in between each drill. And uh, you know, like having things organized and kind of categorized is great. But like when people come on our site, like we don't want to replace creativity, we want to spark it. So we want somebody to maybe see a piece of content on our site and say, hey, this is gonna be great. Like, we want to work on puck protection today. I love this drill, but my team's struggling along the wall. Like, let's start this drill off, let's let's add this wrinkle in, let's create different layers, or hey, this drill's a little too complex, let's take layers down. So I think as a coach, I think the most important thing is like start with the objective, build your practice from there, and make sure it's connecting and make sure it's connecting it. The whole game's about connection, you know. Like, and same with drills. Like, I kind of realized before we don't really ask if like it's a good drill anymore. I ask like, does it connect? Does it connect the players to today's objectives? Does it connect skills to the game? Does it connect decisions to consequences and enjoyment to their development? So to me, I think like it's hard to put a time on it. I think you do need to prepare. I think preparation probably looks so much different at different levels and how much you know as a coach. Um, but yeah, I think like being prepared is so important and also the willingness to deviate from your plan. Um, so many coaches have like, I need to do this for 12 minutes, and 12 minutes hits, and they're on to the next one when hey, there's some great things happening, and maybe that's better, and maybe we cut something out later. Um, so yeah, I think like preparation um is important, but knowing where to start preparing, and to me, that's with the objective. What do you want your team and your players to get better at?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah, I think that connection piece is so important. Like we all as coaches, you know, we think, oh, if I ever I run a really cool practice and I've got to change it next week, and then next week it's different, and then next week it's different. Like I think that part of that connection is the kids, the players, you know, having the coaches, the other anybody else helping on the ice, having the ability to look at the progression. And I think the best coaches take very simple skills and techniques and then build on them as they go. They don't expect them to be mastered in in on a Tuesday and switch the whole practice on a Thursday. And I think the younger levels, like you'll see pro coaches now, and even Haley, right? You go out to practice, you have your core drills. Like you're you're running through things that you know. There's no whiteboarding, there's no going back and re-explaining, there's not a lot of frustration because you're not adding something completely new that's foreign to everyone. Uh, you know, it's something where the the positive, you know, quality repetitions are really what we want out of our players. And I think, you know, when you go to when you go to a place like that has these drills uh, you know, pre-planned for you and has the the the the the the the the definitions of them and why we're doing them, those are the type of drills I'd like to take and then incorporate into my my season plan and say I don't need to do this once. I never I might need to do it like if I'm working with an AU group, I might need to do it for 10 weeks, the same plan. You know, until until we're getting it and understanding the the drills behind it. I think on the other side of this, from the perspective of the coach and the volunteer dad and mom and the person putting the time in, and and to Lee's point, it's not just about the amount of time it takes for you to do the the drills and plan your practices. It's about the amount of time that you're asking me to be on the ice with you. So I say this all the time. If you invite me to your practice and you don't have a plan, I'm not stepping on the ice. I can't do it. I'm not a drill, I'm not a cone pusher. Like I don't want to guess what you're doing next. Your players are guessing, your assistant coaches are guessing, everyone on the ice is guessing. Have a plan, execute that plan, but make sure everyone knows it so that we can maximize the time we have for our ice.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Yeah, fully agree. Like uh it's so sad to see wasted time on the ice. You go to the rink, a coach is at the whiteboard for five minutes, you know, the pucks aren't in the right spot or they keep changing, you know, where the nuts are when like you know, they were in the perfect spot like two drills ago, they didn't connect it right, you know. And yeah, um, it's it it breaks my heart to see that. So, yeah, being prepared and like having your assistants on the same page on like what the practice is and the objective so they can take through what their teaching points are too. Yeah, I just had one thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

I just had one thing, Chris, because I loved how you you're uh and Haley talked about too about the connection of the athlete and the player. You know, this is when if you're a really good head coach and you're organized and you can build plans, this is when you get to go out and talk to your players. Like this is your option, if you're running a drill because your two or three assistant coaches have no idea what you're doing, you're not you're not connecting with your athletes. This is your time to be able to say, hey, listen, Chris is running the drill over there, Haley's got that, the station going over there. I can now go and talk and pull that player out and talk to that player and watch the player and communicate with other members of the team, you know, get to know all these players in a different way in a practice setting. Um, you know, that I think it goes really under uh under notice by really good coaches that they're able to delegate and then really be the coach, be the person that's actually coaching, not just running a drill.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Yeah, I want to bring up too, guys, that you you brought up realistic objectives. Like I think it's important we spend the minute on that because I think sometimes coaches have objectives that are not realistic. All right, and I see this all the time. Uh like I'll use something as simple as a breakout, right? It it will go younger. If your kids don't have the fundamentals down passing, receiving a pass with speed, getting their head up, I don't care how many times you practice this breakout, you're probably not going to get it down, or it's going to take a lot longer to get it down uh than if you if you break it down. So the objective has to be broken down, right? Like, what coach wouldn't want a great breakout, right? And I hear coaches say this all the time, Mike Haley, oh, if we could just get the breakout down, well, your kids can't pass. All right, like that's why they're not getting the work on passing for five weeks and you'll get a breakout down. Or if you want to go even further to it to advancing it, you know, taking the blinders off and just having uh the hockey IQ to see the ice and see what your opponents are doing. And there's drills to that. My objective today is better vision, better scanning, right? But like I want to talk about that because realistic objectives, not just for the players, but for the coaches. Mike made a great point of how you're running the practice. Is it realistic for one person to be running the practice by themselves, or is it more realistic to delegate different coaches to different players? Quick example at the start of my youth season this year, again, a coach at different age groups. The first four practices, my goal is to have four different coaches, myself and my assistants, run a practice. That way we will see which players respond to which coach, which drills they respond to. Is there a player that coach A gets along with better than coach B? These are all things you gotta know before you go in. All right. Everyone learns a little bit differently, right? Again, Haley, I'm gonna throw it back to you real quick. You obviously your dad is a special coach in your life. I'm sure you've worked with coaches that got you and didn't get you throughout your career, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think um not every coach is necessarily like for every player, and that's just the nature of how it goes. And uh, but you know, I think there's something you can always like learn from any of your coaches, and it's like a different perspective you can take away, but not every coach you're gonna like necessarily connect with on that level. Right. And that's okay. It doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything's wrong with either side, it's just how things go sometimes. And um, you know, I think I have found something I've learned from every single coach that I've had. Right. Uh, but there's definitely been ones I've connected with more. And obviously, like my dad is obviously someone I struggled with also at times, but also connected with and like understood where he was coming from now, especially with hindsight, and um, you know, have continued to learn a lot from.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Well, I'll say too, you can learn from both good and bad experiences, right? I think that that's what separates some of the greats from not so greats, is you know, you can't pick and choose when you learn, you learn from everything, right? And I love what you said. Like, it's not everybody's cup of tea. Look, I've been on the bench, this happened, Mike. I'm sure this happened to you. Like, where I've had one kid, let's say a high level, one kid said to me, Listen, I really like it when you get on me and that you're really on top of me. I don't want you to sugarcoat it. Like, you can be mean. And the exact same team had a had a had an athlete going, look, I don't really respond well when you yell at me or when you're hard on me. I I just there's a sweet way to talk to me. Now, think about that, parents. Like, you might go, well, that's great. You know how they're motivated. Well, I can't go from one side of the bench telling someone how horrible they're playing or how I want them to do something, and then go to the other side of the bench and be like, it's okay, just let's try this next time. Like, there has to be a consistency. While it's good that I know how they're motivated, there's a two-way street with this where the players also have to know how I like the coach. All right. And once there's an understanding and a trust built up, and what I try and do is I always say, look, I will always tell you the truth. I probably won't sugarcoat it too much. But if you need extra reinforcement after the game or after the practice, we can have a one-on-one. That's how I try and monitor these things. But I've seen coaches screaming to being nice, to you know, across the emotional gamut. But I think that has to play into it too. I don't want to stray away from practice this year. Mike, I know you have a question about uh drills, and I want to get to that just to stay on track.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah, well, yeah, because I mean, obviously the, you know, Chris said too, everybody has a different philosophy. Everybody has a different mindset, everybody has different skills they have to work on, everybody has different schedules they they're working with. I mean, half the you know, half of us and it are working with you know two or three practices a week, and maybe we get 50 minutes of usable ice, and then you have other programs. Like, I used to get so jealous when I was coaching in college. I'm like, I have way too much time, like two hours every single day. Like I can do anything I want. Like, how am I not getting these guys better? But I think you know, it's like, you know, but I so I so maybe, you know, and I could have used Chris, you know, years and years ago, right? But what what do you think really makes a truly effective drill? And I know, like, you know, being involved at USA Hockey and Hockey Canada and now the international level, like all of these we've evolved so much from like block training uh drills that have to look a certain way to then being more effective in the game. Like, what do you like what are some things that you would like like check off the box? Like, wow, that's a great drill for for my players to use.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yeah, I think like almost look at drills as the vehicle and then connection to the game as the destination. Um, and what that looks like is it could be so different. Like you could have one drill that has 20 teaching points. You're never going to teach all 20, right? But like if you look at the drill and what's happening within it, like, oh, I can teach puck protection here, I can teach slip passes, I can teach, you know, uh stripping pucks away. Like every drill, it's so I think it's it's all about how you're able to communicate with your players and connect it to how they're gonna be able to apply it in the game. And I think like embracing chaos is a great thing, it's never gonna look perfect. Like, I love kind of uh the push being made to to CLA and uh what's happening there. I need to learn more about it. I'm excited to dig in more. But I think like I I really think like you know, the the move to small area games is great, but like the players need to know the objective. Coaches need to put in constraints, they need to change the scoring up to get across, you know, what they're trying to teach. So a great drill, it's so hard, but to me, it's just the vehicle and the destination is how you can connect that drill to the game. And and I don't know if I answered your question, Mike. No, no, no doubt.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

No, you it's it, but that but again, that's the that's I think going right back to being prepared, right? If you because that educational piece, the connection of the player, the person in the stands watching, and the and the person on the ice teaching has to be made. And I think that's why if you come unprepared, like I'm a practice plan sharer. Like I will share my, I literally will leave my practices laying out in ranks, hoping somebody will look at it. We all should do that. Like, please, like I'll leave it out strategically for some of our coaches. Like, please, please, just look at this. Stop doing what you're doing. Like 40 minutes of three on three cross-ites, you're killing me right now. But there's no constraints, there's no learning, there's no thought process. It's just again, I get play. But I think this is where if I'm going to do that though, right, Chris, if I'm going to say I'm gonna do a constraint-based teaching, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make it look like the game, I'm gonna embrace chaos. We have to educate the parent. Like, we have to educate the person that doesn't understand that chaos is good and structure is bad when it comes to learning how to play hockey.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yes. And I do think, like, you know, there there's the pendulum, like really swings super far both ways, right? Like, there's room for for the you gotta develop skills too. And like you can, there are certain drill setups where they're learning it themselves, but there's some where you need reps, you need a lot of reps. So I think like a balance with everything is good, and not trying to swing it too far in one direction where you're all skills are too far in direction where you're all small area games or all constraint led. I think like every you know, like it's all it's all about balance. And I think like at the end of the day, like, you know, your practice that you leave behind could be great for you, and maybe a coach hopefully picks it up and it's not a carbon copy for them because you're gonna teach it a lot different on the ice, but maybe it sparks an idea, and I think like that's what you need to do as a coach, not just take and oh, I'm gonna do these five drills because I saw them on a cool website. Like, no, like how can I make this fit to my team and fit towards where I'm trying to get my team to go, no matter where you're at and what age level you're at.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

You know, I I I wrote this down. It you guys will have this, Mike, because this is true. Mike, Mike helped me run a training camp that I recently ran, and he did a bunch of drills that I loved. And Mike, I wrote down on my paper here, I said I stole your drill, and then I crossed out the word stole, and I wrote borrowed. Because I did. I I you did a drill, Noble's drill, that I really loved, and I applied it to my next practice, and that that's how it should be uh evolving, right? Now, we made some great points here. Um, you know, someone said the word chaos, and um, before we get into the the parent side of that, I know Haley's got a great question about the parent side of that. I don't know how to explain to people because we're all hockey people here, and and this is I'm about to say something, you're either gonna get or you're not gonna get. I don't know how to explain to people that the chaos of that game is the most peaceful place in the world for me, right? If you play, you get it. If you play hockey, you understand this. The chaos of the game is peaceful to hockey players. Is it violent? Sure. Is it fast? Of course. Is it crazy? Absolutely. Is it peaceful? It kind of is. I don't know how to explain that. Maybe every hockey player in the world is an ADHD person, it's undiagnosed, but it's a very peaceful place. All right. Now, with that said, this brings me to my question. Because it is so chaotic, when you're coaching hockey, specifically youth hockey for the nature of this show, you can't be chaotic with how much you're bringing to the kids. You've got to have very clear objectives, like we're saying. I think one of the main problem points I have, or one of the main mistakes that I see at practices by coaches, is they bring six, seven, eight different things we're gonna work on today, when there's just no way even an adult could comprehend and remember six, seven, or eight things. I always say for me, and this this you could you can change this a little bit. My magic number is three. When I bring a a youth hockey team, even a even a national team, I go, these are the three things I want you to walk away with today. Going to be doing a lot of work on a lot of different drills. I want you to leave with a better understanding. If we're doing passing, I just use passing a lot of catching a pass on your backhand, making a pass in motion, and being accurate with your pass. Kids, repeat back to me what I said, and they will. Now they've got it in their head. Okay, now we know the objective. Passing is the overall objective, and we want to get better at these three things, right? And then with that said, when you're out there as coaches, you've got to know those three things because you can't divert and go, oh no, no, that shot was bad. You got I want you to shoot like this. No, no, no, no. We're not working on shooting today. All right. Like we're working on passing, like within reason, obviously, obviously, coaches, you know what I'm saying. Okay. But that's my question to the group, right? How do you find that balance? How do you create those three objectives? Like, if you're looking at a team, right, it's it's you gotta be able to break it down, right? Haley, I actually am gonna throw this to you. We'll we'll start pro and we'll kind of come around the group here. But now follow me here, because at the pro level or the Olympic level, it's probably pretty specific what you're trying to get better at. And you guys are all trained. Like, I don't think you go out there and your coach goes, Hey, we got 15 things to fix today, right? Like it's probably like little tiny things, right? That you're trying to get better at.

SPEAKER_04 24:31

Yeah, it's usually very like small things that you're usually trying to focus on. Um but yeah, it's it's interesting. It's definitely different. I think sometimes you'd also work on like small skills that were unique. And then we would also apply that to the practice itself. So like you would work on these skills for like 10 or 15 minutes prior to practice and then incorporate those skills later into practice. Right. And I think that was super helpful. And then, like, and then you would do it in the small game setting that would happen after. But again, this is like with older players who are more intentional and like kind of understand the concept of the skill and like when and where you would probably use that skill so that you can then work on it um during the practice and then eventually in games.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

But it's still simplified, right? So the point I'm making is that like it's I think there's a misconception. Oh, in pro hockey, it must be so complicated. Everything must be so complicated. It's like it's the opposite because they've they built up the skills over time, right?

SPEAKER_04 25:23

It's we've got to work on this. Yeah, we'll literally work on like wall play where you stand in front of the net, the coach rims the puck, you pick it up, and you go in and shoot. Like that's the whole drill. Like you're not doing anything like revolutionary or crazy. Right. It's it's a small skill that you need in the game. Uh, and then again, you work on that later in practice in different ways. But um, yeah, it's very simple things most of the time. So I think sometimes we overcomplicate things that we need to work on. It's like, no, it's very simple things that happen in hockey most of the time that you just need to rip repetition.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

If it's good enough for the pros, all right. I'm gonna throw it to you, Chris. Uh, you know, like with your thoughts on that, right? Like coaches should be bringing simplified objectives to practice, not just 15 different things they got to work on.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

With without question. I think three is a great number if you get it to two. That's amazing. Yeah, and it's uh, and I think like understanding like how to build it, like you're not gonna have like wall play and puck support and breakouts as your three right. Like the objective might be we need to get we need to get better along the wall. So, like, all right, we're gonna work on winning the race to the puck line, not the puck. We're gonna work on moving our feet after first puck touch. We're gonna move on, maybe some uh skate deception when you're picking the puck up, you know. Like I think really dialing it in and then building it up, like Haley said, like starting simple. One thing, like I just got a couple ideas I would love to share. Um, one thing that you know I've seen a lot is when coaches start a practice with a smaller A game, it really ramps up competition like right away. And if you do it every practice, like your players are excited to be there, like they can't wait. And it gets the juices flowing, it gets everybody engaged right away. And like, so you can like start with it, maybe add the constraints, tell them what you're trying to work on, and then you might be able to end with the same game and see what they picked up and how they improved on. Um, and the other thing I heard I picked this up from a goalie coach up in Toronto, Tony Backwell. So this is probably for the older older levels, but he has uh two coaches explain the the drill differently. Like it's the same drill, but he'll take the four group with one coach and he'll take the D group with another coach. Because like when you're trying to share, share one drill with the whole group, everybody knows what the forwards are gonna try to do. The D knows and the the fours know what the D are trying to do. So it's another way to maybe get some more objectives across, but through your you know, your you know, based on defense or forwards, and this is for the older levels. Um, but I thought it was like, How have I not heard this before? Like, what a brilliant idea! Like the D, here are your three teaching points for this drill or for this practice. Here's what we're working on. Fours might have three slightly different ones, maybe there's some crossover, but just a tip that I picked up recently. Uh, shout out to Tony for that. That I I loved. I thought it was uh a great kind of unique approach. I don't recommend it for for youth like too too young. You know, you want everybody kind of like on one page learning something. But um I thought it was a nice little pickup that I wanted to share.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Yeah, I I think I love that. I mean, I do we so we've done this for a long time where you know we'll we'll give two different directions to groups and we'll say, okay, this group that's playing defense, this guy's the designated passer. Like nobody else knows that. The other team doesn't know it, but everyone else knows it has to get to this player, X. And what happens is it just eliminates the oh, I'm just gonna go to the wall and stop the play and throw it out of this game. Like if I have to retrieve the puck and go find X, and the other player's like, why the hell is he doing that? Like, that's not even the play. Like, there is no play. That's the whole point of hockey. Like, I anything can happen. So I think it's a great, you know, that's a great like uh recommendation for a coach. And we do it at the mite level. You just tell the kid, hey, listen, every time the other team gets the puck, you're the only one allowed to get it back. And you'll see the whole game changes because also this one little kid's ripping around trying to steal the puck from somebody, and the other four are standing around like, what the hell am I supposed to say? You know, where what should I do? I don't know, go to a place where he's not. So I think all these little things are great teaching points that aren't block drills. And you know, going back to the pro to to youth side of these development of practice planning, it it goes it really does go back to who are you, who's your team, how much IC you have. You know, you'll see the pros. They'll work on 20 minutes, three guys will sit in the at the face-off circle and work on face-offs. That's all they work on. Like everybody else, this guy might be working on tip-ins, this other team in the corner might be working on you know, you know, board drills and and puck protection, and somebody else might be just working on drop the puck, drop the puck, drop the puck. And and but these are the kind of things that our youth programs can definitely replicate because everything, and and and I I know I'm deviating from the script, but if if uh if you can talk about like how important it is it for coaches to plan their practices off the ice as well. Like, what are all the things they can do that doesn't that don't need my 50 minutes of on ice instruction?

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Yeah. Um, so like it your practices come from the games, like watching the game is an amazing way to learn and finding a clip. You could go find a clip and build a practice from it. Like, hey, look at what look at what Macklin Cellebrini did. You know your players love Macklin Celabrini. Look what Haley Scamora did in this game. Um connect, like it's another way to connect is show them you don't need to show 20 minutes of film, show a 30-second clip on what you know what a player did in a game, and then you can strip it down and build a practice from there. I I feel like like as coaches and this this I got this from Daryl Belfry, but like you should have a 100 respect a 100% responsibility in developing your players, you should give it 100%. And when you talk to players, you want to tell them it's your responsibility, you give it 100%. And if both of them have that mindset, um, I think that's where magic can happen.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

You know, I'll I'll say this too. One of the one of the coolest phrases I ever heard that it's not necessarily a hockey phrase, but applies to what you just said was I was talking one time about like what makes a great friend, right? And you could you could turn that into teammate here or coach and player. And the definition or the saying was interesting to me. It was, I'll take care of me if you promise to take care of you. Or, you know, if you take care of you, I promise to take care of me. And that really was a great definition to me because it's not about me necessarily taking care of you, I'll be there for you. But I think that the coach player dynamic is okay, players, you take care of you, and I'll take care of me, and we'll create something special together. Meaning, I'll do my work, I'll do my job, I'll get make sure we're prepared, but you've got to put the effort out. But we both got to give 100%. Here, here's something I don't think a lot of people know. Players know, coaches, when you wing a practice because it's not fun. All right, it's just not a fun practice. Here's another thought. Um, I would venture to guess that 90% of youth practices start with goal-line skating drills. Skate to the blue line and back, or go around the circles, or it's the same 20 drills that I've seen for 40 plus years over and over again. You know, one of the things that Mike, you do so well on this show is try and break the thinking of the Aper Po. I love, I love, love, love, Chris, that you just said start the drill with a competitive game. I agree, right? You want to get your kids to have better starts in games, start by getting the competition going right away. Here's another thing, parents and coaches. I think we some kind sometimes make the misconception of, well, they got to warm up. No, we got to warm up because we're in our 40s. All right, it takes us 20 minutes to warm up. We we the kids don't need that much of a warm-up. They can be ready in five minutes at a younger age. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

I will I will say, like, so for like the last six or seven years, I don't think I've ever started a team practice without a competition. Every and and but it's structured. It's like they know there's a there's a there's a there's a chart, like they know what team they're on. The white team's playing the blue team, they there's a score, there's hatred, there's I hate this kid, this kid cheats, all that kind of thing. They I mean they literally are fighting 15 minutes in the practice. It's a bloodbath. But it's funny when I tried to do this with the whale, I was with the whale for one year, and I I thought I'm like, I'm gonna be the most progressive coach in the world. And the lady, the women hated it. The goalies hated it. They're like, this is not our routine. This is like I can, I'm they because it all depends on the level, right? These are pro women, they're coming up, you know, they're they're they're not in a like a training environment. So it all depends on know your team. I love the competition piece, but I think, you know, now again, I wouldn't go to the reverse and do red line, blue line drills, but there's there's a lot of you know, knowing like routine at the level you have, and and then building in. When I'm working with an eight-year-old, I could literally play a game for the first 20 minutes is the best thing I could ever do. If I did a circle drill with eight-year-olds, like it it might be the worst thing they've done all week. And I because it's just it's just chaos and not in a good way. But I think to your point, and it goes back to what Chris said earlier, know your team, know your level, know how much ice you have, plan, plan, plan. And I think more importantly, to to everyone's point about you know, ringing it, it's like, well, just it's easy. The technology exists. Print the damn plan out and have it sitting there for the kids, or email it to them, or text it to them, whatever you have to do, make sure everyone in your team knows what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

I always have my practice plan on the glass for someone to peek at it, for me to peek at it. Like, I don't always remember everything I put on there. It's like, you know, sometimes I gotta go, oh, yeah, that's right. What that's what we're doing next. But I just I'm just challenging the coaches out there. If it's okay to switch it up. Um, I'm a fan of starting practices. Like again, my women's team, Mike, they love that. All right. I'm I'm a fan of starting practices with the competition. I don't think it's wrong in the middle of a practice for youth hockey to do skating in the middle. That's when in the game you need them to really be skating. That's when they start to slow down. At the end, can be a little bit more of a punishment if you're not careful, right? I'm just saying you can rethink how these are done. It doesn't have to be the same thing all the time. Now, speaking of that, all right, we put the time in to create the practices. The kids show up for the practices, but when we look up at the stands, the parents are there watching the practices. And parents, let me tell you something. You probably have no idea what we're doing, do you? You probably don't know what we're doing or why we're doing it, or why your kids at defense-you're you know your kids a defenseman. Why are they doing the offensive drill? Let's get some perspective on the parents. Haley, I think you got a question for that one.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

Yeah. Um, you know, what should parents kind of look for to tell them that a practice is productive? Um, and what are like the signs of like, you know, it's like a good, healthy environment where the kids can get better beyond like they're just skating really hard, right? Like not just doing like lines or uh back and forth or the Herb Brooks drill, right? Like what what shows that like the right, like what shows that like the players are in an environment where they're gonna get better?

SPEAKER_01 36:37

To to me, it has nothing to do with what's happening on the ice, it should be how your child feels on the way to the rank and how they feel coming back. And if they're excited to go, if they're happy after and they learn some stuff, what what more should it be? Instead of nitpicking what's happening on the ice. Like, is your child excited to go to practice on a Tuesday night after a long day? And if they are, I got my kid in a good spot and uh stop worrying so much about what's happening on the ice and more about your child's connection to the team, their teammates, and the coach. And I I think that's what a good environment is.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

But Chris, how dare you bring logic to this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 37:24

I think I think one of my I think I think my most successful like foray into this kind of education was a series I did many years ago with a bunch of learn to play parents, and it was like why we do this. Like it was the actual drill, the video, and the why. Like, why are we playing soccer? Why are we playing tag? Why are we playing, you know, uh and and Steve Brunner, he'll love this from the junior rangers. Why are we playing, you know, My Little Pony? Like we were, we were like we're we're doing all these drills with seven and eight-year-olds, and there's a reason behind them. And one of the things is it does not look like hockey. It's nothing to do with hockey, it's all about edges and stopping and turning and competing and and reading and reacting. And I think that's ultimately, you know, why it is our obligation. It's our duty as coaches to educate, especially at the youngest levels, the entry-level parent, like tell me why I'm doing this, and I'm all in. You're the expert, but tell me why. Like, if I'm guessing, and we all know what happens, like when people assume, right? They're just looking and they go, Oh, he doesn't know what he's doing. But but there's a rhyme and reason, right? And Chris, and then you know, talk, you know, just really quickly, like how how would you go about doing that? Like, what would you be your process to tell those parents, like, listen, this is why we do these drills?

SPEAKER_01 38:39

Yeah, I think like it all starts, I think, so much about hockey and the season. There's so many ups and downs, right? For each individual player, for the parent, for the teams, uh, for the coach. And it's all about setting those expectations at the beginning of the year. And I think explaining to them then, like, hey, my practices are gonna look different than maybe what you're used to. And here's why. And and this is this is why. Like, I'm taking a different approach. I want your kids to love the game. Something might look off, but I promise you, everything is planned and intentional, and there's a reason for it. And if you ever have a question, why feel free to ask? But I think like setting those expectations before the season starts, and that goes with everything, with your ice time, with the way what's important to you of winning versus development. Um, and but then as a coach, you have to stick with it, you know. Like if we're gonna play equal ice time and it's the playoffs, it you gotta stick with it. And I think like those preseason meetings, then maybe reiterating it uh throughout the year, that's how I would tackle it. But expectations are critical to set as a coach, and then reminding parents if you know they get upset. Hey, remember we talked about this, uh, this is why. And but as a coach, you need to be prepared and you need to give it what you have and do what's best for for the kids and and their enjoyment of the game, and part of that is getting better.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Let me ask this too. We're talking about a lot the players as well. You know, in our in our pre-talks, Chris, you you made some really great points about how players should be approaching practice, right? I'd love to have a discussion about that too. Uh not just mentally, because physically, you know, no matter when the practice is. Like, what are your thoughts on that? On how players should be approaching the game um away from the game.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yeah, I think like players, it's almost two practices, two different practices can be happening, right? The coach has his practice, and a player can have their practice, and each player could have their own individual practice. And I think like sometimes it can be on the player to be far more intentional with what they're trying to get out of it. There could be player, one player who's getting so much out of this practice, and the next one's not. And as a coach, you want to try to identify that, help you know, bring those players who might be struggling up. But like you as a player can get you could be a little different every rep. Like, maybe don't change the routes, but change a little bit of the route, change the way you're accepting a pass. Try something different, don't come down and take the same shot 20 times in a row. You know, I think like players can be different every rep. I think players can cheer on teammates, it's gonna help themselves feel better, it's gonna help like noticing the little things. Like, I think players can get so much better at practicing and being intentional about the way they practice. I'd love to hear from Haley. Like, uh did you was there a moment you realized you might be able to get more out of practice than the person next to you? And how is your approach to it?

SPEAKER_04 41:54

Yeah, um honestly, I don't know if I really was intentional with my practices until maybe like pro season. I think in college it got very repetitive, and you just were used to doing the same things on the same days, like you got stuck into the routine a little bit. And I think my game got more mature as obviously I got older and I started to want to improve on the little things in my game more. Not that I didn't in college, but I think I really got more curious, more intentional, more like asking more questions about it, like more confident in myself to go out and do that and to go work on skills that maybe I wasn't necessarily that good at, and okay to look like an idiot out there sometimes, like if you will, you know, and obviously I don't like to say that about myself, but like, you know, you're gonna fall, you're gonna mess up, you're not gonna get the best shot off when you're working on something new. And I think it's okay to not look your best when you're working on improving those skills. So I think I would say when I hit like pro with the Buffalo Buttes and stuff, I think I started to like to really get intentional with my practices, like, hey, I really want to work on this today. And that's something I would focus on the whole practice. And I still continue to do that today.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Yeah, I'm wondering, Chris, I mean, if you're build building your practices, I mean, what what kind of thought process should a coach think about, you know, incorporating a different like drill or a different activity and even a different definition for an offense and a defense? Like, like you talked a little bit about, you know, two coaches talking to the defense and offense in different ways, but how much effort can a coach put in to making sure they can work on those fundamental skills that all players have to have? Like a left winger has to know how to play defense and and and vice versa. And that to in today's modern game, you know, you look at goal scores, like you watch Colorado Avalanche, you're like, isn't that is that guy a right winger? No, that's Cal McCart. He's you know, so you look at these players, like, how is that possible? So what do you what are players? We talk about intentional practices, you know, what are coaches need to do to you know incorporate that into how they build their program?

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah, I mean, I think it starts like the player's ability to have an intentional practice starts well before um a coach even plans it, right? Like they need to know coaches need to encourage players to to try different things, they need to encourage them to fail as they're learning. And they need to like have that culture where teammates cheer each other on over the little things, not just the big things. And like when you look at from a player's side, like that's what that's what I want my players to do. I want them to be different in reps, I want them to cheer the little things. Somebody has a great stick. A great stick, Haley. That was incredible. And like that might be something, it's not a a pretty goal or it's not this fancy play, but like little things like that. So to me, it starts so much before the practice prep. It's it's the culture that you're building. Um, and then even what better thing as a coach for your players to be arranging their own competitions? Like, hey, I'm going, I'm going against her today. Like, come on, Haley, I'm gonna beat you today. I'm gonna get I'm gonna I'm gonna beat you to this puck. You know, like if you see as a coach, if you can step back and see your players doing this, um you facilitated that environment. And I think like, and I this is all like this is it my own thoughts. This is I've learned this from Daryl Belfry. We did a whole series with him on the practice mindset. So I'm regurgitating what he said. I have to give him credit for it. But um what better thing as a coach to so if you Mike, I'm not answering your question, but I think it starts far beyond the practice planning itself. It's having that culture where players are comfortable to try new things, to pick each other up, to arrange competition. And as a coach, you might have to start doing it, but then eventually you're like, hey, like, do I have to dump this puck in or can you do it? And you let them do it, and then you can maybe start doing a little teaching, like remove yourself.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

I think that positive, that positive communication is contagious, right? I mean, when I work with our little brick kids, and and and uh when they come, you know, that's one of the first things we talk about, the first hour that they're in the ring is you know, find three things every single time you step on the ice to praise your teammates about. Not go overboard, you don't have to praise somebody for having a you know a bad goal or you know, goal again, but you have to find a little way, hey, thanks. Oh, that pass is unbelievable. Or I I can't believe I didn't get open for you there, or you know, I I really like that I I you know you you made that play. That was an awesome play. Great shift. Like these are contagious for players, and when you're a coach and you hear that that culture changing, you can start to now challenge your kids so much more in practice because they're not like like they're not walking on eggshells thinking, oh, if I make a mistake, I'm gonna get yelled at in front of you know 14 other kids and players. It's more like, no, I'm gonna get praised for wow, I can't believe you just tried that. Like that that that didn't work out great, but wow, was that a great effort to try it and the player able to do it? I think that's you know an unbelievable way to set culture and set um you know the opportunity for players to succeed and fail, and let's like in today's, you know, in a safe environment where where they're not being like, oh, I'm getting shut down now for the next you know two games. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_04 47:13

Uh so ice hockey systems has become one of the go-to coaching resources in hockey. So I kind of want to learn more about how your platform helps coaches create better practices and what kind of problems it solves for coaches.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Yeah, thanks. It's been uh it's been a fun journey. Um that's myself, Scott Gergen, Nil Satterstrom are my two partners. The three of us are in it every single day. Um, we've grown to over 35,000 coaches using our site, uh, subscribe. So we have a big responsibility to be putting out great content. And we've evolved so much over time. Um, and we continue to. We're never happy with where the site is. We just want to keep pushing and getting better. But yeah, we're we we have a site that has everything organized by age level and by category. So when you're looking to build off an idea, when you're looking for an area your team can improve on, you can find uh drills and activities that fit within that. And then same with the coach education side. So uh we're definitely known for drills, but our coach education product has been massive lately. I think we're over a couple hundred videos. We're very fortunate to get to sit down and talk with some of the best hockey minds in the world. Um we just interviewed like 12 NHL coaches uh in Pittsburgh a few weekends ago. Haley, I got to sit down with you and Haley Wynn last week. Um, I've been blessed to interview Scotty Bowman and um all these amazing hockey minds and kind of learn from them and and try to take some things and make it digestible for the busy coach. So we really help people, I think, identify some ideas and hopefully spark new ideas and then really stay organized. So, like when you create a practice on ice hockey systems, you can send out it's called a shareable URL, and then everybody who has it, you don't need a login, you can view all the videos for the practice. So instead of just seeing a printout that has a bunch of lines and swiggles and some writing, nobody wants to read, you can actually watch um, watch what you're doing. You can include game clips in it. Uh, we have a license with the NHL, which is really cool. So you could show the game clip and have it connected as part of the practice. And for the older players, we know they they love that side of it to know what they're getting into when they get to the ring. Younger players, you know, we don't recommend sending it out, but uh to the assistant coaches, it's awesome too to see the video of the drill being done. So yeah, it's been uh uh you know, I've been at this for 15 years. It started off as a hobby and finally was able to get into it into it full time about five years ago. And um, we got a long way to go, but we are on the way, and uh it feels good to help coaches and work with great people. Uh, we we're very blessed.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

Yeah, that's awesome. I love the video aspect with the drills because we would always get a practice plan for Montreal and all the squiggles, I go, it's too many lines. I'm like, I literally can't even process this right now. Like, I because I'm a very visual learner, so that that spoke to me.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Oh, that's great. Yeah, the video is a big, it's a big, big uh, it's really like our strength. Like, we spend a ton of time um on our videos and and getting the right reps and not showing perfect reps too, right? Like it's not perfect. Um, but yeah, I think it's a big differentiator for us is how we're organized and the quality of the video and then the ability to organize your own thoughts. Uh, we've had so many, I think we have over 800,000 drills drawn on our site every single year. It's a lot. So coaches are using it to organize their thoughts. And um, you know, just you don't have to keep a binder, you know, you keep it fresh and you could add your own videos to it and then combine it with our content. Um, so yeah, it's been uh uh people using our tools has been something we're we're super grateful for, and it also shows that like maybe we can develop more for them, more content for they don't have to draw their own stuff, they can take from and hopefully add some wrinkles to it.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

So yeah, the conversation evolves, the communication evolves, right? Uh you know, it makes you wonder how they did this before the internet, and it was just guys, like you said, which have gigantic notebooks of drills. I've seen them and they kind of pick and choose what they wanted. And uh in the digital age, it's great that we have a resource that can allow us to not just draw drills, but find drills and explore drills and say, hey, I want to do something on this today, and search for that and find something valuable or something you can build on with that. Um, before we get out of here today, we'll do a little bit of a rapid fire. We've given all of you listeners a lot of actionable items today, from again, coaches to parents to players. Uh, but let's finish with one more takeaway uh for each member of the family. All right, so we'll do this real quick. So for coaches, the question is what's one thing you change tomorrow to make all practices more effective, Chris? I want to ask you that.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

I would say uh your ability to think outside the box and make sure that you keep connection in mind with every practice. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Haley, I'm actually gonna throw this one to you, Haley, for players. You're playing. No, you'll be fine. What's a habit you'd like to see players start tomorrow to get more out of a practice?

SPEAKER_04 52:36

Um I just think keeping the compete level up is super important throughout all of practice. I think sometimes you can get stuck in the routine and lose the compete part. So just always staying competitive with yourself and your teammates.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

Yeah, I think that's a great answer because I think compete is not something that's pushed enough, right? And like you said, it can get monotonous if you're just doing the same thing over and over again. And then we wonder why in the games they don't have this level of compete. That's something that comes from us. Mike, this one's probably for you and me, but for the parents, right? One mindset shift that better supports your child's development to the practice. Again, Chris, you said it really well about man, just enjoy it and be supportive. But what's another thing, Mike, the parents can do to approach practice a little differently?

SPEAKER_00 53:18

I I think just take the take the opportunity that you see your child, you know, in practice and what they're doing, and then and then build on that. Like, don't expect your player to get better in 15 minutes. Like one drill, one practice, one great, you know, good or bad. You know, oh my god, my son did a flow drill and he scored on every single shift. He must be the top left winger on the team. Like just find ways to see practice in a bigger view, and then and then you as a parent have to take those skills and say, wow, my son's not a great stick handler. I can see that. And then maybe I could do that at home. Maybe I could do that in different ways, maybe I could do that in different ways. And I think you know, and and and I think more important, more on my side, be appreciative how much work that coaching staffs go through to and when you see a coach with a practice plan that's been shared, that's been built, and that's been thought out, you have to understand, even with the ice hockey systems and other you know, technology, it is a lot of work to put those together and just appreciate how much work goes into that.

SPEAKER_02 54:21

Yeah, and then my follow-up to that is it's it's one of like three things, parents, right? If you're gonna watch the practice like intently, enjoy it. Enjoy seeing the kids skate and have fun. You know, just like Chris said, just it's a magical place. Like, enjoy it. That's one side of it. Two, you got work to do, go do your work. You get you gotta free free somebody watch here. They're watching your kids for an hour, go do your work. You got no work, you don't want to watch the practice. Go have a drink, all right? Go sit down and watch. You know, parents, you've earned it, you've been raising these kids for 10, 15, 18 years. You deserve a moment to yourself to sit there with a cold beverage, one, and enjoy whatever it is that the other parents just enjoy it, just enjoy it. It does not have to be a high pressure environment. Because the last thing I'll say is if you make it a high pressure environment for yourself, it's a hundred percent chance you're making it a high pressure environment for your kids. All right, you're not making it a high pressure environment for me as the coach, you're making my decision easier if that's what you're gonna provide at the practice. Go have a drink, enjoy yourself, all right? What a great discussion. Uh Chris, thanks so much for being here today, uh, shedding some light on this. Obviously, Ice Hockey System is a well-known property within the hockey market. Um, thanks for all you do for the game, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Hey, thank you guys so much for everything. Uh appreciate being on here and the time. And um, yeah, you guys right back at you. Thanks for everything you do for the game. Haley, Lee, Mike, uh, game's a better place because of people like you. So thanks. Thanks, brother. I really appreciate that a lot.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

And uh, we'll let that be the final note. With that said, that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Girls Play Hockey. Remember, gang, if you have any questions about anything, practices, uh, how to develop them, what you're thinking, do you agree with us, disagree with us? You can always email us at team at our kidsplayhockey.com. Or remember, you can use the link accompanying this episode in the description. Uh, and you can actually test up, text us a message. We only get a short amount of characters to respond back. So if you want to have a real conversation, use emails. We don't put every email we get on the air. I've been asked that once before. No, we do not. But for Chris, for Mike, for Haley, I'm Lee. We'll see you on the next edition of Our Girls Play Hockey, everybody. Take care. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at When Hockey Stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.