Coaching Kids Through Failure

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Hey everybody, welcome back to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Today, Mike and I dissect going over what happens when everything kind of goes wrong for a player in a situation. We just saw this in the AFC Championship game, which I'll go over in the intro. But really how to coach players to where they're at. It's a really great conversation. We go everywhere from kind of younger ages up to older ages and just how to compartmentalize, you know, from a what are the coaches' responsibilities on a team with standards and emotions and then parents and so on. So you're really going to enjoy this one. Also, whether you're a first-time listener or longtime listener, uh, we always want to thank you and ask you if you if you haven't already to give us a five-star review on whatever podcast platform you're listening on. Uh, share this with friends, uh, and then also join our Facebook group. It's a private group on Facebook. A lot of you have been coming in there lately. Um, all you gotta do is search for Our Kids Play Hockey on Facebook, ask a couple yes or no questions, um, and you're in, and the conversation really continues there. So if you're looking for more of this or a place to leave uh comments or episode ideas, that's a place, great place to do it. You can also do that uh by emailing us at team at our kidsplayhockey.com. One of us will get back to you, literally one of the three of us. Um and just want to thank you guys again. You have really well the show grows every single week. Uh, we're hitting the top 10% of podcasts on our platform, which is unbelievable. Um, and and we take a lot of pride and honor in doing that uh for you, with you, and and because of you. So thanks so much for that. And without further ado, enjoy this episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Leah Lias. I'm joined with my great friend Mike Benelli. Christy Cassiano Burns is on assignment today. Mike, I love saying that since she's a news correspondent. It always makes me feel kind of cool. Um, today's topic. Uh, you guys watch the AFC and the NFC championship games. My Eagles are going to the Super Bowl. Uh, don't turn off the show yet if you're not an Eagles fan. I'm not going to talk about that. Uh, but if you watch the AFC Championship game, at the end of the game, Joseph Asai, as many of you saw, threw Patrick Mahomes pretty hard out of bounds, causing a 15-yard penalty, putting Kansas City in field goal range, and thus getting the hatred from every Bengals fan around the country saying, You ruined it, you destroyed us. Uh, we saw him crying on the bench after the game about his mistake. Um, and it made Mike and I start thinking, and we've been getting comments about this, I'm gonna read one to you in a minute, about what happens when you have a player who's emotionally compromised, and there's a lot to dissect in me just saying that. How do you coach to that, right? How do you coach to the player that has done something like that? Now we're gonna dissect that situation a little bit more in a second, but in addition to that situation, we also got a uh message from one of our listeners, who, again, the name has been removed to protect the innocent. But she wrote this, and it goes perfectly with what we're talking about today, which is we would love to learn a little more about how to coach through frustrations for young players who put all their emotions on the ice, stick slamming, throwing hands in the air, and maybe even getting physical with other players after they face failure, missing a pass or a shot on goal, or in this case, throwing a uh quarterback out of bounds in field goal range. I think it all combines together. So, Mike and I, from the coaching perspective, are gonna kind of tackle this today, pun intended. Um, how to coach players in emotional situations, really at any time of the season. But Mike, let's start with the Joseph Asai situation because I think you and I approached this the the same way in the sense of, yeah, look, it was it's a tough play situation to end the game, but not Bengals didn't necessarily lose on that play, right? In fact, I think if that game went on forever, the score would have just kept going back and forth. So you you and I talked about this in the pre-show. I think we should just jump right in about Joseph Asai and that moment.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I always look at it like you know, you know where a player's fault is when he intentionally bets on a game and loses it for the team. That's the player's fault. Right when you you can't, it's so hard to blame a uh an athlete for a mistake in a in the highest stressed environment possible. And I think we all know as coaches, you know, we play to our training. Right. So when that player was in the position, um you know, in a lot of ways, undisciplined. It's like, you know, okay, you can look at it and say, Well, it's such an undisciplined play. Well, the player, I don't think, like again, I don't I don't know the player, I don't know the I don't know the exact situation. I guarantee the player is in his head saying, you know what, I'm gonna drill this uh quarterback, knock him out of the game. We're gonna win the game because of me, because I'm gonna hurt this player. They're just in the moment. You're you're playing. It's just like it's a hockey player that takes a knee-to-knee hit. It's somebody, unfortunately, sometimes it hits a player from behind. Again, are are they in I don't think they're intentional. Like I think most times you see an athlete do something like that, it's not a vindictive thing. It's a in the play, in the moment, losing focus in the bigger picture. And I don't want to say it's not it's his fault, but it's just this, it's it's again the result of the training. And you always fall to the level of the training you have. So maybe the player's never been in a trained in a in a in a in a situation where there's seconds to make a decision, milliseconds really, to make a decision and hold off. Because what happens if he holds off and that player runs down the line? Like you're programmed to finish the play. It's it's you know, it's you it's like other professions. You you're programmed to do something, and then when you do it, people say, Well, why would you do that? Because I'm this is what I'm programmed to do. And it's so hard to lay off that programming.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Yeah, I think also to your point, um, and again, I know Bengals fans are there. A lot a lot of people out there probably listening single, but you get away. But wasn't there a play?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Wasn't there a play earlier? Wasn't there a play earlier that the Bengals benefited from? Like there's you could go way back to the first quarter and say, well, they benefited from getting, you know, an off-sides callback. Or, you know, so any time in the game is a crucial part of the game. Right. Like whether it happened in the first quarter or the last second, maybe the first quarter, if you would have made the right play and there would have been an accomplished return or a or or a or a touchdown, then you wouldn't be in the situation where you're where uh another player could lose the game for you, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

I have always said to my teams that look, a a game may be decided on a play, but you didn't win or lose because of a play. You you you won or lose because of the summation of the game, right? And like you said, things happen throughout the entire game. Uh, you know, first period, first quarter, things are not as intense as the last five minutes, last 30 seconds of a game. The other thing, too, is that I I think that you were saying too about it's not intentional or you're in the moment. I'm gonna give two examples because I was gonna say, you know, everybody who likes football saying, but you got to know in that situation, you got to be aware and you gotta know. Well, I think number one, the reaction of a player tells you if it was intentional or not. It was clearly not intentional in terms of, yeah, he wasn't thinking about the clock in that situation because he was devastated uh that he had he had made that mistake.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

I think he even got hurt on the play himself. Possibly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

It look, my point is there was clear remorse there. He felt like he had cost his team in the Super Bowl, and and he might that play obviously contributed to it. Um, that's number one. And you can see that you know when a player's trying to hurt somebody else, I think. But you know, they stand over them, they laugh at him. But like even Lawrence Taylor, if we're talking football, when when he when he broke Feisman's leg, I mean he was the first one, you know, get the medical people out here. Um, so I think that's first his reactions telling. The other thing, too, is you know, you know, for those of you saying and and probably, you know, you're not wrong about how he's got to know. I'll turn to uh hockey players. Zidano Chara just gave a great interview about uh when when they were in the cup final and when his jaw was broken and his body was broken. And he said he was shocked when I think it was Patrice Bergeron or someone said to him, Hey, go out there for the last shift. He didn't even realize the game was coming to an end. And he said, I don't look at the clock, I just play till the game is over, till the whistle is blown. So these guys, even the great Zedano Chara, they get into a zone where they're just so focused, they might not be aware. Now, listen, if again, you're in football, you do got to know that he'll learn from this, obviously. Um, but again, it goes to the lower.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Or or at the youth level, uh, you know, even this level, or you won't Lee, right? So players get players eliminate themselves from competition by never learning. I mean, and we see that from you know, eight, nine-year-olds, like, oh, I can't believe this kid is so undisciplined. We got to teach this at him, he got to do this, we got to do that. And he never learns. And then that player just doesn't play at a high level. They can't, they they can't sustain um, you know, that just their talent is got to get them by. They have to have other means of discipline, right, to continue to play any sport. And we see it, listen, you see it in baseball where pitchers lose track of the count. You see it on downs and football and quarterbacks.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Remember, Brady thought that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

This guy's the greatest player, the greatest, you know, quarterback of all time. And and it again, people I think it's easy for somebody in section 402 to make a comment about a player and what their responsibilities are uh, you know, compared to others. Now, again, I like I I hate it when I hear my kids or any kids like, oh, that player, uh, that player sucks. They're in the NHL. Like they don't suck. Well, and then I'll get the, you know, my little guy will always be like, well, it's all relative, dad. It's like they suck for where they're at. I'm like, no, no, no. They they might, they're, they're, they're elite. These are the elitest of the elitest athletes. And the the mistakes they make, I mean, it's it's amazing to me that the whole game's not a mistake.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

I'm like, you know, to to watch these players, and when they do, again, fall to the level of their training or fall to some fall back on something, that habit that they never fixed, or a bad habit that they got when they were younger, it's so hard to overcome those things. That's why we're that's why as coaches, it's so crucial what we do with these kids when they're eight, nine, ten years old. Because once you form the the the the brain and and tendencies, it's so hard to get them out. Right. It just is. And uh Tim Tebow is a great example if you want to follow the football analogy, right? Like you couldn't make him into a quarterback at the NFL level because his his his muscle memory wouldn't allow him to get there. And I think we see that a lot in hockey players. I see that I could tell you right now with an 11 or 12-year-old um where they're at skating wise, whether they could play at 16 and 17 year olds at a high level. Because they can't pivot, they can't open up, they can't ride on the outside edge, they can't, they you know, they can't read and react to a certain area of the ice consistently, and they and they might be the best player on the ice. But if I extrapolate that out, I could almost in certainty tell you that player is not gonna be able to play past this level. It's because of their training.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Yeah, and and I do want to jump into this from a coaching standpoint because, and again, thank you all for listening to us talk discuss the sports there and stuff. You know, Mike and I want to tackle this as coaches because I think at various levels there's things coaches can do or look for, uh, both both as the coach, but also towards the players that are gonna improve this uh muscle memory, improve these skill sets, both mental and physical. And it's really important that you know that from really atoms up, um, especially when you're dealing with emotional kids, which is atoms up. It doesn't matter, right? If you're in youth sports, you're dealing with different emotions at different points. You know, another quick story I saw. I was in Tampa over the weekend at the uh Elite Prospects uh uh cup series, and it was the championship round, and I was watching the uh UAT Junior Flyers, and um this was a semifinal game, and one of the players was on a uh pretty good situation, he was on a two-on-one or a three-on-one, and he just made kind of a bad pass on the play, and nothing came from it. Um, so not the worst thing in the world, right? They didn't get a counter rush or anything like that. He just didn't make a great play, and he went back to the bench and kind of did he didn't throw his stick, but he kind of tossed his stick. Uh he was clearly upset. And I watch, and this is the kind of things I look at, right? I watch the head coach of that team, again, this is the top team in that system, walk over, pick up the kid's stick, hand it to the kid, pat him on the shoulder, and say, Hey, it's gonna be okay. Right? It's okay, you're in a good situation there. I have also seen situations like that where no one talks to the kid, the head coach doesn't talk to the kid, might yell at the kid, or teammates yell at the kid. You know, so my personal belief is that coach handled that extremely well. He understood he needed to get the best out of this kid, and that kid had a great game in the championship game, too. So when we dive into this, obviously from a coaching standpoint, there needs to be a little bit of empathy. Players are gonna make mistakes, right? It's what are the skill sets we're learning? And Mike, I'm gonna throw this to you, just as a broad sense before we start doing this kind of by age. My goal as a coach in youth sports, youth sports, gotta gotta reiterate that. When I'm doing pro or college, this is a different conversation, is I'm trying to build a good human being before anything else. I mean, it really it's true in pro too. It's just the winning is obviously a little bit more uh important. But no matter what I'm trying to do, if I my belief, Mike, is that if I'm creating a better person, I'm naturally gonna create a better hockey player, aside from skill sets, right? This is the mental side of the game.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

If you're a head coach and you're running a team and you have a long-term, you know, kind of aspect of that player, I certainly uh you know, I I probably buy into that more often than not. But you gotta remember, I'm a little older, I'm a little more jaded. I've been around a lot of other programs. And I just I don't think it's I don't think it's my responsibility so much to build the person anymore, like I like like I would if I was coaching a high school hockey team from cradle to grave. Like if I if I was recruiting a player and then graduating a player, then certainly my responsibility is to make them better people. If I'm coaching a 10U team of kids from seven different towns that see me twice a week, I don't know how much better a person I can make that individual, other than selecting them based off of the fact that they're good people to begin with. Like it's just hard to, I don't know what the family situation is. I don't know what goes on at home. So I don't, and I and this is really for a lot of us, you know, for a lot of young coaches that that I work with. Like, don't you can't take in too much stock. Like I'll I'll never forget. I was coaching a team that I had taken over. And like the first game I was on the bench, some kid took a penalty for giving the kid the finger. Like after a penalty, he gave the kid the finger and he got a misconduct. And the refs, like, you know, you got to control your kids. I'm like, I don't even know who the kid is. Like I've never even met him. Like, what how would I control that kid? Like, how do I control that person? Like, I don't know if that's even accept maybe that's acceptable in his home. Like, why is that my responsibility? So yes, we want to now to that point, we want to teach when we have them, we we want to, you know, we want to make sure that we're um modeling great behavior and good behavior and good ethics. And and you know, so whether whether the kids on your team are all you know kids that grew up with wolves, it doesn't matter. Like just just you you need to do what you do. And then you need to meet you need to you need to make sure that you're the one uh me, you know, showing and and and modeling all these behaviors, and hopefully that that you know, because I do believe that players, when they're with you long enough, become a reflection of you.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

And if you're throwing water bottles on the bench and you're breaking sticks across your knee and you're belittling a player after a mistake, it's only a matter of time before the parents and the other kids on the bench belittle that player for making a mistake. And then and I and I think our goal, one of our goals is is to make sure the kids make as many mistakes as they can when they're at the youth level. I mean, if they're playing at eight, nine, ten years old, I hope that we're creating an atmosphere where they can make a ton of mistakes that can be um identified, reviewed, made again, improved on, and go and and and working towards perfection.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

I think all that's fair, what you said. And I I think you're right. I think players start to emulate the coaching staff after a certain amount of time. And yeah, you know, when you say it, is it my responsibility? I think it's our responsibility to set standards uh while you're with the team. And look, we've said this before standards can be destroyed the second you leave the rank by family, by by friends. I mean, and look, that's true for everyone. That's not just hockey players. Um, but I think it's really important that when you walk into a room at any level, that the standards are set of how we're pursuing whatever it is we're pursuing, excellence development. Um, and here are the standards, really cleared out. This goes back to the communication piece that we always talk about. You have to constantly communicate. You know, I've been watching uh Deion Sanders at Colorado College, you know, it's keeping with the football theme. Um, and I love watching the videos because he just goes in the locker room and says, Here's our standards, right? You will not do this, you will not do this. If you do, you're off the team. Um, and that's the collegiate level. I just I think that's an important thing that maybe doesn't happen as often as I'd like, or it happens right before the season. There's a coach's meeting and they go, here's our standards, and they're never brought up again. Or sometimes coaches don't even adhere to their own standards. So I think creating standards are at, and then the other half of it, Mike, can kind of continuing the story I told, I talked to that head coach after that game. And I said I was really impressed how you handled that. And he said to me, he goes, I don't think anybody understands the level of pressure these kids are under, right? And it got me thinking a little bit of, yeah, I'm looking at this from my age, where, and again, look, if you're if you're an adult, it's easy to look at an ATU or whatever age group and say, Yeah, it's not they these kids don't have real problems. And you know what you're right, they don't. But an 18-year-old kid has the right to his 18-year-old problems, as does every age group. And uh, this reminded me of something uh I did an interview series with a bunch of uh young men and women in their 20s, um, kind of asking them about what do you feel when someone in their 40s or 50s or 60 talks to you? And they said, uh, and this really hit me. This, I really wish people would just meet me where I'm at. I'm not 40. I don't understand what it is to be 40. I only know what it is to be 25. And I thought that was a really fair comment. So when we apply that to hockey, an 18-year-old kid, 17-year-old kid, this is their, this is their galaxy, this is their universe. It is a lot of pressure. And you got to be able to try and put yourself in that position for a minute, I think, to understand. And he understood that that kid in that moment needed some empathy, right? Not every kid needs that. There are kids that are motivated by you need to do better, right? Right between the eyes. I think part of the coaching of this is also understanding your players, understanding their mentality. Um, I think that's part of coaching in general, is knowing how each kid or each player is motivated and then making sure you do it. That kid needed an empathetic, supportive coach in that moment. All right. If anybody out there is going, hey, that's weak, uh that's not how coaching works. If you want to get maximum performance out of a player, you need to know how your players are motivated or somebody does, right? To get the best out of them. Um, I think that's one of the coaching mistakes of the past, Mike, is that coaches would be one way with all the players, and that's the way it is. And again, we're I gotta reiterate, we're talking youth sports right now. I'm not talking professional sports. That's a different monster. Um, but yeah, set standards, meet these kids where they're at, communicate early and often. Let's talk about that for a minute. And then I want to talk about Jack, just the emotional side of the game as the parents sent us that message.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

So when you mention, when you say like for well, obviously the standards sometimes I think you get what you get, right? So if you if you go to a team that has no standards or it's not, it's not implied, or it's not, it's not directed and and and and sent out there to everyone, like this is my standards, like what Deion Sanders is doing. There's no ambiguity there, right? Like, there's no like I wonder how he feels about me cutting class. Uh maybe I can do it, maybe I can't. There's no, there's no like there, you know, again, and I'm I'm at that at that level, at the college level, coaching and and high and and you know, high-level high school coaching and prep school coaching, I certainly would I I'd always try to give myself a lot of gray, uh, so I wouldn't have to be a hard and fast, like this is this is where because I mean go back to the to the junior flyer kid and think about the pressure. Listen, if any if there was a video of Mike Benelli on a penalty shot to tie a game up with a minute left in the game and took a backhand and hit the scoreboard with the puck, if that was out there, that's with me for the rest of my life. And that's what these kids deal with. The the fact that everything they're doing on the ice is on Live Barn, everything they do on the ice is videotaped by mom and dad or another player or another kid. And these a lot of these people love to not they they want to not think about the fact that other athletes and other people that are adults and other kids are are intentionally trying to knock these kids down. Yeah. You need to then have a coach even more empathetic. Like when I got off the like like my coach, I'm sure it was like, oh crap, I cannot believe, you know, but you know what my coach said to me when I did that when I was in college? Like, well, hey, you earn the right to even get the penalty shot because you worked your ass off to get down the ice and and and cause that that situation. Okay, you hit the scoreboard. That wasn't the greatest thing in the world. But you know, but I and I but again, I I I was able to take that, and it was just me and my teammates, and it was over. There's no video of that anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

But now is this a true story, or are you just making it No, that's a true story. It's very detailed. I was gonna say that's a true story.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

That's a that's a that's a that's a my my college teammates will tell you, yeah, oh, it's true.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

I'm watching you, and I'm like, this is not a scenario. This is this happened.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

No, that's me. That's me. But but I but I I always I always put that in the back of my head saying if that was on YouTube, right? That would be on YouTube forever. Right. And these kids have this pressure of trying to trying to have perfection in a world that's that we only see perfection. Nobody's nobody sees the kid that does, you know, flips the stick and catches the puck and and know and knows that he's done that for seven days before they got the video right. Right. Like they don't see all the outclips. They only see the success. And I think it's even more important for us then to be so much more proactive as coaches, getting back to even the email and the and the discussion about, you know, where is the emotional piece of our kids? And it's uh more, I think, I think, and this is just from me working with kids for the last 40 years, is that it's more they have so much more on them than just our own teammates.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

They literally have, I mean, I guess it's a badge of honor, right? If you're an Instagram kid or a TikToker or whatever or Snapchat and you have, you know, 27,000 followers, that's 27,000 more people knocking you down.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

That's just the way social media works.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

And when you expose yourself to that, I don't know if we're I don't know if coaches are equipped yet as well as they we can be to teach to that. Because because that's just x it's not X's and O's. It's not strategy. It's not, hey, I played the game so I must know the game. It's what are the kids commute how are the kids communicating and what are they seeing? And then where is that frustration bubbling up? And I think you saw it in the going back to the football kid. You know his teammate during the interviews I I watched a couple of interviews afterwards and his teammate was right beside him. We don't want to that that's really not a question he needs to answer. That's not him. He's that our team his team his his teammates are with him.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

We're we're with him. He says a lot and and and that that's it's a there's a mature I think this kid is 22 years old the kid that had the had the penalty. There's a mature seasoned veteran in the room with him just like we should be as coaches and parents right that say not again I don't think it's being soft I don't think empath I don't think empathy is soft. I think it's the ability to to to connect with that player. Yeah I think it's strength it's the ability to connect with that player and then and then have that player know it's not okay to have taken the penalty right but it is okay to feel bad about it. And it's even better to learn from it right and build from it.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Well look let's use an NHL example. All right now I I love that you're bringing this up that his teammate was there because I think that says a lot about the team and how the team is run. All right from from coaches, leaders whatever.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Or that individual again maybe or that individual's own life. Right. Right? Like like maybe maybe the coaching staff I mean does anybody do a seminar and hey when your teammate fails this is how we react but it's so funny because like I remember there was a time like last year one of the teams I coached like like every thought that when the kid came off the bench had to be a positive statement. Had to be you you almost have to make the kids do it until they're doing it. Like becomes a it becomes a habit.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

Well yeah look look man there's a lot to unpack here I'm sorry no no no it's okay I look I want to give a great annual example of what you talked about those of you over 40 will remember Steve Smith and the Edmonton Oilers and 1980 six all right when uh he put the puck in his own net. This is the Gretzky Oilers it derailed the dynasty they did not win five in a row this is one of the misconceptions of hockey is that they won for they won four out of five um and right in the middle uh when Patrick Walls was Patrick Waz rookie year Steve Smith I believe it was against the Calgary Flames put the the puck in his own net to lose the game and end the season. All right and in one of again I wish this moment was shown more I'm probably going to make a video about this now that I talked about it. The next year they won the cup and Wayne Gretzky this is his third cup takes the cup this is right when they give it to him and hands it to Steve Smith. You got to remember who's on this team Paul Coffey Marc Messier Grant Fuhrer Yari I mean I can go on there's just hall of fame there's like 10 of them right and he hands it to Steve Smith a player you probably haven't ever heard of and Steve Smith talks about how that was one of the most healing moments of his career. You got to remember too Steve Smith was not a bad player but he will always be Mike to your point before YouTube remembered for putting the puck in his own net. Now we always talk about Wayne Gretzky is a better person than he is a hockey player. That's another great moment but this shows you the brotherhood and the bond or the sisterhood that you get at the pro level. So I think that that's the first point that you know you're not defined by one moment. Another thing you said that I think is really important to reiterate if you were born before 1990 maybe 95 um you know and that's which is probably most of us all right we are not going to understand what these kids are dealing with with social media. All right I know some of us including myself we you know social media was born when I was in college we all wear that as a flag right that we were there when it started but we didn't grow up with it right you're right Mike my greatest failures on the ice they're not on film you can't find them. So these kids deal with that and I have been asked before you know what's the solution to the social media aspect of the cyberbullying or whatever you want to call it and while that's a very vast answer it really comes down to one thing as parents and coaches we play a role in this too it's building self-esteem in our kids off the internet. That can be built at home and I think that and this is no one's fault because we didn't grow up with social media we're not really keenly aware of the effects I think we kind of know that our kids look at that. But you can I can hear this from my own kid who's about to be nine of um talking to this person online or this person made fun of me. There's real obvious signs that he's already seeing some of this stuff or words that he's seen that he should not be seeing you know I went right in and shut the chat off when I saw that but my point is you've got to build we've got to build self-esteem in our in our children not just our kids all kids right and make them understand that your self-worth is not based on 27,000 likes 27000 thumbs down all right that that is a human highlight reel and that we as a society do need to get better with this and we will we we always tend to evolve uh after the technology is made right but uh for those of you thinking that question it's about building self-esteem in your kids having the conversation so that when when something like that does come across their feed they have some of the tools to build on it. Now Mike I'm gonna pivot here a little bit more because I think I love that you said empathy is not not a weakness. I agree with you empathy is a is a strength. I think we're learning that as a society after the last few years. I think when it comes down to emotions and this goes back to the the the letter we got from a parent um I'm just gonna tell you my experience everybody does this a little bit differently. I think a lot of us growing up and and again the further back you go the harsher this guest gets we we were told don't cry don't feel don't do that don't act that way don't don't be mad don't be sad. We we got a lot of don't feel okay and I completely understand why generations of the past had to live like that. We didn't go through any great world war we have been through wars but you know we didn't go through the Great Depression. We we've it's a pretty some of you may disagree but it's a pretty good time to be alive when you think about it from a technological standpoint and you know all the things that we have right so I think it's important that kids feel I just think it's important they understand what they're feeling and then this is the key getting it under control. So one of the things I do with my kid is when he's having a massive temper tantrum either of my kids or they're being kids and they're going nuts I really try to get them to focus on hey tell me what you're feeling are you angry are you sad? And then I have him say it I'm angry I'm frustrated and I think I've talked about this on the show before I want him to identify the emotion that has hijacked him so he can start to get it under control. To me that's the skill I as his parent want him to have know what you're feeling and get it under control. But don't stop feeling because I think if you eradicate emotion from a kid A I think you've taken something from them that's pretty important for their life but B, I think you also take away some of the coping mechanism. All right going back to to um Asai he was he was bleeding emotion on the sideline right he was feeling something all right you can't take that out of a person completely. So anyway Mike I'm droning on here a little bit but I think that's important at any age group of let the kid feel what they're feeling. It's how quickly can they get into control and Mike to your point going all the way back to the beginning of the episode that starts to build the skill set and the tools of when you hit a a horrible moment that you start to understand how to navigate that moment. You're not gonna not feel like crap if you make a horrible play. That's and that is going to happen. It's how do you navigate that moment and find your way back so you can continue to play on and this this goes beyond sports obviously Mike Yeah well think about that we're not trained as parents to do that.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

And then we're asked to be a parent coaching a team of 15 kids that have never been trained to do that. So one of the guys I work with Wally Kozak uh he's up in um he's up in Vancouver and uh Calgary maybe and a lot of the things we talk about is that you know uh levels of directorships and and how organizations um structure what they're gonna do for their their youth hockey programs. And one of the one of the biggest pushes right now uh from many many youth hockey organizations and that that I work with certainly is one of the structures that we want in place over a hockey director and a skills instructor is an ethical and emotional director like somebody that can teach us and give us the right tools to to to teach you know to remember ethical what we're doing. What are we doing ethically? I mean I remember days when I was growing up that you know if the best player forgot his jersey the coach had no problem getting you know the fourth line kid and getting him his jersey and having him play and say well listen kid we got to just play. You know it I I know you know we have to win this game. And I'm like are you as a player you're like this is insanity like this is this really happening? And then but then again but if you don't know how to deal with it and you don't know how to you know you don't know how to interject as a player I was 15 years old when that that's a real story right and and I I and and I actually feel bad that I wasn't strong enough to be like hey coach that's not that's not right like this player just doesn't get to play. He it's their responsibility to remember these things. We don't need the you know is the win really that important like and I and I think when you talk about like how we're so you know disconnected from the athletes sometimes like the kids on a whole would rather be ethical than win. That's just how kids are wired.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Right like they are you're you're absolutely right they don't want to they don't want to win by cheating.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Right. And they know it's it comes later in life yeah yeah you can cheat when you well yeah when you're when you're a jaded adult that needs a that needs to win a game without making like kidding right I mean you know I look at I I I've been in so many different you know hotel rooms and and and bars and during tournaments where parents are like figuring out ways to catch teams cheating so we could win. I'm like well isn't that cheating like aren't we what do we do like what do you say you're you're trying to you're trying to tell me that this kid was not on the roster early and like it is what it is. We're playing the game. So I've always I've just looked at and again these aren't high stakes you know professional matches where the the winner the loser is is losing a livelihood. These are children and these are adults in a recreational environment and and to your point you this is the kind of stuff that we need to do proactively learning ourselves and then letting parents know these are the standards we're gonna set up and this is how I coach ethically and part of that's gonna have to be you allowing me to let the kids have emotion. Yeah like I want the player to have emotion I don't I don't want them bottling it up. If they're gonna cry they're gonna cry because some kids react different ways and or body or the body language like that's to me like body language is the biggest pet peeve as a recruiter of any other and any other thing. The head down the shoulders shrunk the stick breaking over the you know watching a kid on the bench and and not allowing a play to go. So when we talk about you know when the teams win and lose games it's not always on the last play of the last second. They could have lost the game on an emotional penalty they took in the first quarter before the game even started with what we're talking about. You can never go back and say coulda woulda shoulda if this would have happened uh Michael Kay up here in New York does a show and I forget what he called the law of uh probably whatever it is you know whatever it is he's like oh if this happened this would have happened and if that second baseman would have turned the double play in a second inning they wouldn't have scored the three runs to put us down it it is what it is it you are in the situation you're in at the end of the game. Now is you go to the level of your training and we try to win. And and again I think that's that's but I I you know I I've had many many kids every I mean matter of fact every year I've coached I think my whole life I've always had that one or two kids on a team that was an emotional like outside the norm person. That was me like either that was me playing Mike I'll be honest with you yeah just really really and then I've had some kids that have like that I'm like do you even have a pulse like do you even want to be here? Right and no and it's almost the reverse like no emotion it's like you don't even care. Like yeah like and me I'm emotional like I'm like I care like right now now I've had to I've had to learn to harness that right because you you can't just keep breaking sticks and throwing water bottles and and dumping garbage cans in the locker room your whole life. So you have to learn to navigate that world but when you're working with kids adolescents as long as we know it and I and I get I guess my point is a lot of us don't ever get the training to even be considered to know what that should look like.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

Well and and I think that training it's not fair. No I I think that training is evolving over time. And again we're all victims of when we were raised in in some sense right like you know a lot of people didn't know about emotional security 30, 40 years ago. And that's look I'm not gonna judge any other generation based on what they do or don't know. I'm not saying you are either I can tell you I was a very emotional kid really up until my my early 20s. All right and it it sometimes it helped me and sometimes it really hurt me. And it's it you know it took me a long time to mature at least what I think is mature enough to the point where I could be on a bench and be even killed and understand how to comportmentalize it. But it took time. Now with that said Mike um you talked about uh having kind of an ethical type person within the team or someone watching over I I want to talk about my own experience here with with these eight year olds I I volunteer to coach. All right I do two minutes this is every week at least two to four minutes of real baseline some people might call it meditation it's just more of a hyper focused um you know feel feel your fingertips listen to some sounds just get very focused with me in the moment and it's funny because we talk about can you teach kids this from a coaching standpoint? These kids are seven and eight years old and yes the first 10 times I do it it's agony because they can't get past five seconds without giggling or laughing because they're kids and I'm very aware of that. But you know what we're we're way past the half point of the season now. They can get to the two minute mark they're very quiet uh when we're doing it they understand this is something we're doing and this is the key for me. I have seen kids on the ice, off the ice use it now to calm themselves down. These are seven and eight year old kids. So it can be taught right now I have been trained to do this to be fair. I'm not saying everyone knows how to do this all right but I the point I'm trying to make is that you can start teaching these ideals very early as a coach as a parent all right and I think it's important you know and here's the thing when these kids move on now to the next team they might lose it if if they don't keep practicing it. That's how mental fitness works. I always say it's like a gym if you keep doing it you're gonna stay in health you're gonna stay in shape. If you stop doing it you're gonna fall out and that's okay too. Okay. We learn from shared experience over time. But my point is as a as a coach you don't have any control once those kids leave the locker room or the bench so we talked about setting standards maybe giving them some tools not every kid's going to take it that's okay. I think to answer again the the email that we got you know I I said this earlier and this is true for adults too you can be hijacked by an emotion. You can be so angry that you start doing things uncharacteristic because you've been hijacked by that emotion by that saboteur inside of you and it's causing you to react the the the in my opinion all right I'm not a psychologist I'm not a psychiatrist in my opinion as a hockey coach all right and as a parent the first step to trying to quell that is to identify and say out loud what you are feeling. I am angry you can do this in private if you need I am frustrated I am pissed you will be amazed when you call it out how quickly that will start to diffuse it and again yes you can start to help your eight year old 12 year old 15 year old kid do this will they be able to do it on the first try absolutely not absolutely not this is something that you have to consistently practice all right but I that is my experience is that if you can get them to call out what it is that's happening, it will start to diffuse it. They can start to get get some control and Mike I've seen this before with my own kids they get control and they burst again they get control and they burst again just like a a volcano right you got to harness it and be patient with it.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

It's hard it's it's my point it's the exact point I'll make to every single person that will listen that if you do something once it cannot stick. It doesn't stick if you if you want great power skaters and you want the best skater in the world you can't go to a week long power skating clinic and then and then practice for 28 weeks with somebody that doesn't know jack about skating. It's because you're gonna you're you're gonna fall to that you're gonna fall to the level of your training it's the same thing emotionally it's the same thing ethically if you if you're gonna have a if you're gonna have your like I I I I just had a I was at a a league lacrosse meeting the other day and everybody was everybody was fighting the whole league basically I I don't know who these people are fighting about doing a live like positive coaching alliance parental um uh code of conduct type of meeting like even Zoom you know you know nothing nothing we have to go to an auditorium you make it easy Wednesday night 730 the pushback from these people saying oh no well our kid we we sign a code of conduct at the beginning of the year like when they register they got to sign a code of conduct and the one guy admits I don't even know if anybody reads it because they just kind of sign it and send it in. I don't think they even read it. Okay well then then then we're not doing our job then what what the hell what what is that what kind of code of conduct is that like like the the code of conduct is just the blueprint for the stuff that you want to follow and and and and and model. So why aren't we discussing this once a week, once every other week why aren't we reinforcing it like we do skating what like we do stick cannon like we do right like if you want kids if you listen if you want kids to battle and drive to the net and go for rebounds and score goals in the house then you have to have drills that have them battle and score goals and go to the network and then have to wonder why they don't do it after you've done it. I I I you know I won't even name the the the coach knows who he is he'll contact me after he watches our after he watches our podcast I can't I can't get my kids to go to the net uh you know they're always never around the net to score goals I go well I've just watched five of your practices and not one drill did the girls boys whatever they were I don't know what they were girls or boys I don't that that one not one time did the player have to go to the net to finish the play they all went to the line that was 25 feet away from the net so don't tell me they don't know how to do it you don't know how to coach like you don't know how to train them to do that. Mike I can't believe my kids that that team leaves the locker room it's the most disgusting you know example of a room I've ever seen that doesn't if you see that if you walk in that means that's an un that to me that's an undisciplined team doesn't give a crap about anything doesn't understand where they come from who they are has no culture I don't care how good they are you go in that locker room and it looks like a bomb went off and there was a there was a birthday party with cupcakes and cookies and soda bottles all over the place then that's a that is a direct reflection on the coach and I don't and I don't mean game one I mean when you that means that that coach hasn't addressed that throughout the season building ethics building a culture all the other things we all worry about what's the schedule what's my hot my my hockey rankings and what hotel are we staying at for the tournament. Well why don't we worry about why don't we rather the real things to your that the beginning of the conversation we had that how can I build good people and be responsible for that if nothing I do in my organization models any of that.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Yeah it's scary. And again we've talked about this before I you know actually this person who sent us the email as someone I know and I remember she told me a story about another Might team and she said that um she was appalled she walked in the locker room and they were not just cursing but using terms they probably shouldn't be using and and and it's like how does that even happen at that level I mean it means no one is taking the responsibility and look again does all the weight of the world have to come on the coach with these kids in their lives no but when those kids are in your locker room or on your bench yeah it's that's your responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

He's such a psychopath like he wants our kids to have the locker room clean after every single practice psychopath Mike for the don't join my team like this is my standard.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Well look look we talk about ways to sell programs sometimes and I'll tell you this you know I think it would be attractive to some parents some when you see the highest level of ethics and standard set by a program and that's what That program stands for. I'd want to send my kid there. You know what I mean? Now that's me. All right. Some kids, some parents want the best top talent. And I get it. Your journey is your journey. Don't get me wrong. We all got to figure that out. But you know, I'll I'll give you one. And some of you might think I'll be a Boy Scout for this, but I hope more people do this. Um, with my kids, my team, and we'll do it in squirts again. Uh, my organization does send out a code of ethics that needs to be signed. All right. Now, at my kid's age, I am the one who has to sign it. But I sit down with him and I go over it with him before I sign it. And I make I make it kind of cool. I said, Hey, you got a contract here, right? You got a contract with this team, and I want to review it with you. And I go over the basics, and you know what? They all they all say similar things of you know, how to be respectful, you're not gonna do this, you're not gonna do that. Uh, you're representing the organization. Why would I not do that with him? Why would I not make it exciting? You're signing a contract, and these are the responsibilities. Do you understand what the team is asking? What do you think we should do if someone's out of line? It's a 10-minute discussion with my kid, and I'm and it's fun. Every year we should do this. Mike, I remember too, and again, the Boy Scout thing coming in, but I remember uh when I was in my junior year, I played for an elite team, and they gave me a playbook and there was a lot of stuff, and there was a notebook, three-ring binder, there's no no dick digital technology yet. This thing was the Bible to me. I mean, I took it so seriously that that I was on this team. You know what I mean? And and again, that's me though. Okay, not every athlete's gonna be like that, and I completely understand that. I probably went overboard with this a lot of times, but you gotta make that part of it somewhat fun or somewhat realistic. Because I'll tell you what, when you get to the higher levels, those contracts really do mean something. It means you might not get paid uh if you're fortunate enough to play. Go ahead, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Well, I I used to have these conversations as a hockey director with parents, like like use the sport, use our sport to support you. Like our sport is so powerful to your kids. I want to support you through sport. That means you're gonna sit down if you want to. You don't listen, you can look at the code of conduct and say, Well, I don't want to sign this code of conduct because I don't believe in any of this stuff. Like, really? Like, you don't believe in any of this? Okay, well, then I just gotta let you know uh it's probably not the best organization for you to be in because this is what we believe in. And when this comes up, we're gonna need your support for this to play in my sport. And uh the parents that want that, which I think is overwhelmingly the most, the parents want this, right? Is this is is a is a program that's gonna model behavior that's gonna be that's gonna support what they want modeled. Like it's it's it's very different than if you go to a program and you're at home and you're you do this and you make your kid do this and you have this, and these are your standards at home. And then when the kid goes in the rink, it's like, hey, it's a free-for-all right now. I get to spit on the floor and I get to, you know, steal tape from other kids' bags, and I get to make the coach go get my water bottle because I'm not happy, and I can whine and cry and have a temper tantrum and nobody and there's no recourse for that. Well, okay, well, then then that's that's but just understand that's not my standard. So the two, I mean, Christy says this all the time when we're on together, right? That you've got to mold the two together. Like you've got to find the program that takes your standards and the program standards. And then when it but when you purposely sign up for something that is diametrically um different than your own standards, you get what you get. Yeah, don't call me, don't call me in chat. I get listen, I there's I probably have 25 emails in my email box that I've answered about people that are unhappy in the organizations they're with and they can't believe it, and they're shocked and they and they they just can't believe what they've gotten into. And then I could go back and say, Well, remember the email I sent you on August 15th explaining what this organization is and who they are, and you discarded that information? Delete. Like, don't come, don't come to me and say you're shocked when you weren't shocked. You're just shocked it happened to you. Like you're you're you're you're you're like, we're as parents, like I can't believe that coach my treated my kid like that way. Well, didn't you know that that seven kids left that team? The reason you're on the team is because seven kids left the team last year because of the way the coach is. So, what do you think? You're you're the reason he's gonna change? Like your kid is the golden kid that's gonna change this person and who they are ethically? No, it's not. The coach is gonna fall to their level of of training as well. So when you're when you have an emotional kid, if you're an emotional, if you have an emotional child and a child that you know is is just so pent up with frustration, negativity, lack of confidence, then then it is the most important thing to find the program and the coach that matches that need rather than matches maybe the level of hockey playing. Because if you can't get through the emotional piece, it doesn't matter how good you are, if you can't last in a game. I mean, there's a one kid right now we're working with right now, he's been on three different teams in eight months, and it's all on penalties. It's all because every time the kid gets on a team, he's taking four majors. And uh I'm like, you can't you're an unbelievable player, unbelievable, like gifted. But you can't, if you're not playing and you're hurting the team, then I don't it doesn't matter how gifted you are. You're in the box or you're in the stands, you're not helping me. Well, someone's gotta get through to him. I need six kids that are ungifted that can play a whole game.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Yeah. And and so look, so and again, going back to the beginning of the episode, right? Is he doing that on purpose? Is he in the moment? I don't know. Every kid's a little different. Someone's got to try and get through to him or her uh to understand that, you know, and yeah, Mike, it's it's all fantastic points you're making. I mean, like again, every kid's a little bit different, every kid's got to be treated a little bit differently. Um, and I think that again, a lot of this comes down to just how you do it throughout the season. And look, as a parent, look, the I know this from from being in the system and and playing through the system, the grass is always greener on the other side. Uh, and if you make a gut emotional decision, you might not realize what you're doing. All right. And and look, FOMO, you know, fear of missing out, plays into this heavily for some parents too. Of do I go to the ethical team with the high standards that's really gonna make my kid a good human being, or do I go to this other team that might get him 15 scout looks this year because that's what a parent told me about the whole team, but my kid might not be good enough. We all got to walk that line our on our own. But I would say that if you're mad or you're frustrated with an organization, just take a step back and really look at it. You might be right, it might be right to move. All right, I'm not saying that's ever wrong, but you the grass is always greener on the other side. And I've had a lot of conversations with the parents that have left one organization going to another. It's like this wasn't what I thought it was gonna be. I go, what did you think it was gonna be? You know, um, a couple more quick ones for me before we close this out. Uh, just some some quick tips. All right. These are not always easy to implement, but going back to that email, it said, What do I do when my kid slams his stick? What do I do when he throws his gloves? Um, I know one of the common theories is this, and again, in the moment, this can be hard to do, but it's not to just tell them what not to do, right? Don't slam your stick, don't throw your gloves. You want to ask questions or at least try and have a conversation of what is the right thing to do? All right. What how else could you have handled that? Now, again, it depends on the age. You're not going to go up to an 18-year-old and say that. All right. But you do want to try and give them the path towards the correct behavior or better behavior, or explain, at least, again, if they're older, look, when you slam your stick, that that that how does that affect the whole team? Right. So sometimes asking great questions can help a player arrive at a point. Um, Mike, you want to comment on that before I go to the next one?

SPEAKER_00 52:35

No, no, that's I that's why I depend on my wife, the therapist, to do that. Like, I'm so sick. She's like, what what what do you what do you what are your feelings? Like, why do you feel like you need to break that plate? Like, why, why do you feel you need to throw the Legos across the room and you can't contribute to the family cleaning up? Like, like and I'm like, clean the couple of Legos up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm guilty of that too. Me, I'm just I think I've learned, I think I've gotten actually a lot better at that. I'm probably much better at at uh with other people's kids than my own kids, no doubt about it. That I'm I'm more, I'm much more like, so tell me your feelings about why you slash that kid over the head with a stick.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

Well, if you're emotionally compromised, it's hard to do this. That's what I'm trying to say. Like, especially on the bench in a high tension situation, as a coach, I'm not gonna be, hey, how could you have handled that differently? I'm just talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

It's easier for me to ask other people's kids why they have a problem, other than my kid, like like you're the problem. No, and then so it's like so, but I get it. But it's but it it is it is a again, it goes back to it's a learned thing.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

Yeah, what we get from our parents, yeah. We get it from our upcoming.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Or you just learn it, but yeah, your own circumstances.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Like again, the the example that I was given, uh, which and it I have to work on this all the time because I'm a little I can be a little bit of a hothead too. Um, and I and I'm working on it, I'm not perfect at it, but it was, you know, you're not supposed to say, Don't eat on the couch. You're supposed to say, hey, come eat at the table. So, like and again, that is so much easier said than done. But I do try and review, you know, how many times you're allowed to say that.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

How many times, how many times do you have to say come eat at the table before you say get off the couch?

SPEAKER_02 54:04

I think at some point it becomes you're not, you're not getting uh you're not getting dinner tonight if you don't do this. Uh I'm with you on that too, buddy. It's not easy and it's not always simple. And and you know, you you have to discipline your kids at some point, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

But I but I think it's so hard now, too, right? That we're in a world where like if I take my kids' phone away to punish them, I'm the one being punished. Because I now I can't contact him. I don't know where he is, I don't know when to pick him up, I don't know who he's with. Right now I'm the one, I'm the one being punished.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

That's that's a perfect segue to my final point, which was uh, and and I think this is always an important message to give to players, and I'll tell this one in a story. Um, obviously, I love the game. Um, you you kind of alluded to this earlier, Mike. I think one of the great ways to persuade your kids is to know what they love and know that you have some leverage over uh controlling that. I don't want to say taking it away, but controlling that. I remember one time influenced it. Yeah. Um, I remember one time when I was uh you know late teens, 16, 17, um, mid-teens, I should say, um I did something wrong. And my father said, I am not taking you to practice tonight. And I was that was between the eyes. That had never happened, and I was devastated. And I'll tell you what, um, I called my coach, and by by the way, I love my father immensely. I love my mother immensely. They were they are fantastic parents. They, in my opinion, did everything they could possibly do right uh in my hockey journey. So this was just a one time I and I deserve this. Let me say that. I definitely deserve to be punished here. Okay. And uh I called my coach and he offered to come pick me up, uh, which I'm you know, this is I'm realizing now how above and beyond this was. And I remember he said to me, and and everyone, I'm about to say this, you're gonna say, Oh, yeah, yeah, that's obvious, but I had never heard this up until this point. I was very upset with myself. I was upset with my dad, and he said, you know, first he told me you need to apologize to your father when you get home, which he's right.

unknown 55:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

And then he said, We got to the rink, and he said this. He goes, When you walk in that door, you leave this outside. You have to leave this outside the rink.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

It's over, it's over. Um, and for whatever reason, that lesson, which I'm sure people had told me before, it clicked on that day. So I think that as you approach a rink, depending on what's happening, even if you're having an argument with your own kid, you gotta start to implement that philosophy of when you walk through these doors, it's heaven and you gotta leave it outside, right? And kind of vice versa. If you have a bad game, you gotta leave it in the ring. You know what I mean? So um, I always I always kind of had a grip on that after that, that how fortunate I am to be able to play this game, still to this day. Like when I go to play adult lead now, I'm at the age now where I'm just I'm fortunate with my body the way it is to be able to play it all. So I'm anytime I'm at the rink, I'm just happy now because I can even be there, right? Um, but I just I'll never forget that lesson. Uh, you know, he said, you know, you gotta leave this outside the rank now and go practice. And I thought that was important. So when we're talking about emotions, I got a grip on it from that moment on for the rest of my life. All right. So again, great, great coaching moment, both as a son. I did apologize to my father, right? He taught me, I was pissed, Mike. I remember being pissed, but he he was right, you know, that was a good moment. So there's an example of a coach going above and beyond to teach me, meeting me where I was at, uh being empathetic that I was upset, and then teaching me something, right? And it was it was a pivotal moment. And again, I I'm gonna say this one more time, Mike. I guarantee you people had told me that before. I just didn't hear it until that moment.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Right. It wasn't affecting you. You didn't need to, you didn't need to react to it either. I mean, just you know, and I think and that's funny. It's a it's uh it's just like we we the coaches I work with, what I love now is is is I bet you it's it's probably more than 80, 90 percent. At the end of every practice, they've all gotten a great habit of ending practice together, like not the scramble of the Zambones coming on, get off the ice, get all the equipment off. Like there's a lot to be said for reminding kids in the moment to, hey, let's all let's all thank you know, when you get off the ice, thank your parents. Like I've got in this in this habit, and I know my kids hate it, is like, hey, when you get on the bus, thank the bus driver, give them a smile, say good morning. Like, yeah, that's just like just common decency. Just do that. So the day when you're running down the hill when you're late and your hair's frozen to your head, and you're and you're and you're and you're gonna and he and he looks and he doesn't go, drives away. There's he's not gonna drive away if he knows you're a nice kid, you're friendly. Like, and I think but I think that's that's that's that's what I love coaches, and that's where I talk about the power of sport and and supporting the parent, is that we I want that coach to be like, hey, don't forget, turn to your parents, wave to them, make sure every one of you says thank you. Now, do all of them do it? Probably not, but the ones that do get rewarded, right? Because the parents like, thank you. And get and guess who they uh acknowledge that to? The coach, it means they say, Wow, that's a really nice coach. He doesn't know crap about a power play, but you know what? He's a nice guy. And I or he he he has my best interest. Like, so no matter what you are in the level of your coaching and what you can bring to the table from strategy and and and and and logistics, at least they know, okay, I I have the my my son and daughter with a good person.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

And if you listen to the coach's site, hockey factories episodes with Matt Dumichel, uh, he he he has this great series on all the you know Shattock St. Mary's and and uh there's a free book on it too.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

We should have a lot of things. Free book, it's on you.

SPEAKER_00 59:20

Go go to coach site not to give them any more plugs. But go get the book, go get the book, read it. But every single person, everyone, every single leader talked about what you talked about. The first thing they look for is good people. And if you can't produce a good person by the time you're 16, 17, 18 years old, you ain't going to those places. Yeah, you know, so and that that's they don't want you, but they don't want you. Well, they don't need you and they don't want you. There's a lot of really listen, there's a ton of really, really good hockey players out there, tons. And then you need to be if you're gonna be a real jackass, like if you're gonna be somebody that doesn't care about anything and is just a not a nice person, you better be really good. Like really, really good. Because people will listen, let's let's admit that people will overlook certain aspects of your of your personality because of skill. But if you're the kid that's like every other kid, you ain't getting picked.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

Right. And we gotta say that's most kids. That's the majority.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

Well, that's what I mean. It's not you're not the one percenter that can get away with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

It's the point one percenter. Let's be honest. It's not even the one percenter, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

No, no doubt about it. And I think that's a great, you know, to me, I'm always like, well, and I again, maybe I come from a different place because I wasn't the point one percenter. I was the kid that had to get picked because I was good enough, but I was better than the other kids I was with. I was just a better person, I had a better personality. I had I loved coming to the rank. I do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

I will I will say this as a coach, all right. I can win with that. All right, you can give me talented players that can't get along with each other. I can't get I can't tell you with confidence I can win with that. I can win with 20 good people that have comparable talent. I can win with that. I can't win with three superstars and a bunch of other guys that don't get along. I that's not my style. All right. Again, it might be coaches that can do that. It's not me. The other thing I wanted to say too is this. Um, again, you were talking about waving to the parents. Uh, as a parent, as a parent, I want my kid to feel safe with me after the game. I do not want them to fear getting in the car with me after the game of judgment or whatever, unless they want to talk about it. I think that's really important to note. I always want my kid to feel that after the game, I'm a safe place to be. Um, you know, sometimes it's different if you're the coach of the team. But I think that's important that your home is a safe place, that your your care is a safe place. Don't underestimate that. If you're coaching your kid, we did a whole episode about this that the car ride is not for coaching. If you're coaching your kid the whole way home after a loss or a win, you might want to reevaluate that uh and give it some time. Um, and I and Mike, again, very rarely do I not shake a ref's hand. I thank the Zamboni driver, I thank the scorekeeper, I thank my parents, I thank the people on the way out of the rank. Um studies, there have been studies that show this is a good thing to do. All right. Look, if you want to, if you want to know how far that can go, this is a quick challenge, and I'll end the episode. Go to your local Starbucks or whatever the local version of Starbucks is and really thank your barista. These people get treated like crap by most people, and they are shocked when you think they should.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

They should. If you're at Starbucks, you should go to your Dunkin' Donut uh person and and they're nicer.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm just making the point of this is that you know, a lot of us don't realize that we we don't treat each other with respect. And and look it's you know it's horrible.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

I mean, it's it's really it's I I I watch, I sit back, I'm like, oh man, like that's so like you almost go out of your way to even be nicer to the person.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

Well, it it's like look, look, I think it's also perspective. If you're upset that your golden latte took an extra two minutes, I mean you got to reevaluate your own life at that point. We all got places to go. We all got places to be. Um anyway, Mike, this was a great episode. Except for the boista. We all got we all got places to go. This was a fantastic episode. We missed Christy, but we want to let all you know listening. Uh, we've got some really great episodes and some great guests coming up. Uh, we're booked out for the next few months. Um, uh, but we always leave episodes like this where we can answer your questions. So if you have a question, a comment, if you disagree with us, whatever it is, we want to hear from you, uh, you can email us directly at team at our kids play hockey, or uh, as many of you have been doing, join our Facebook group. It's a private group on Facebook called Our Kids Play Hockey. Uh, you just have to answer a couple quick questions, very easy. It's a yes or no question to gain access. But it's a really wonderful community of people who listen to the show. Um, and you can ask the questions there and interact with other hockey parents. Again, that's on Facebook. Um, and obviously our website, ourkidsplayhockey.com, has all of our episodes. Um, and as a final request, if you're still listening, which we appreciate, uh, if you can give this a five-star review wherever you're listening to it, right? Just give it a quick review. Really helps us out a lot. Share it with your friends, your team snaps, your game sheets, whatever you're in. Uh, we're we want to build this community because we believe in you as parents and coaches and uh just the the wonderful reception we get from you, whatever we see in public. I mean, it really means a lot to Mike Christie and I. So thanks for that. But that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey for Mike Vinelli. I'm Leah Lias. It's been a wonderful Mike. Uh, we'll see you soon with uh Our Kids Play Goalie, Our Kids Play Hockey next time. Have a great week, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at When Hockey Stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. Thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.