Do Early Hockey Stars Stay Ahead?

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 1:48]: Hello hockey friends and families around the world. And welcome back to another episode of our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias, joined by Christy Cashiana Burns and Mike Benelli. Today's episode was inspired by one of our listeners, Tony, who asked a great question. It's something we've probably danced around on some of our episodes, but we've never really fully dived into it. So today's topic. What happens to the kids who start doing extra training at 8U or 10U or 12U? Do they stay ahead of the kids who don't? It's a great question that I know a lot of parents want to know. He also asked about the bigger kids dominating early kids who learned to lift the puck early. Right. And we all know that in Adams and Mites how you lift the puck, you're a million goal scorer. And how those early advantages can fade over time, which is also true. Again, we love this question. It's something we hear a lot in the in the wild and every possible hockey parent wonders it. And it speaks directly to long term development versus early success. And there is a distinction. So today we're going to dive into it all. Early bloomers versus late bloomers. Physical development gaps, hard to break habits, which I know Mike and I are going to dive in. Because if I see one more kid skate directly at a defenseman after crossing the blue line with the puck unprotected to try and go one on one in a situation where you could go around that dude, gonna lose my freaking mind. I'll get back to that later. Husa hussa. Okay. And the last one's also the grind, which is very important and always pays off for many young athletes. Those are usually the kids who break through. But let's get into it. The first section, the extra ice advantage, the kid who gets that extra ice at 9 years old, 8 years old, Mike, is that a real advantage? We gotta go look both short term and long term. 

Mike Bonelli [1:48 - 2:54]: Go ahead. Yeah. 100. If you're, if you're a, if you're six, five, two and a half and you're getting extra ice and your son or daughter's able to do it, they prop most likely will have a distinct advantage over the other kids in that snapshot of their life. So in that little short period of time, they're gonna have a big advantage because they're not doing the other things. They're just focused on hockey skills. Like if, you know, it's, it's anything. Right. If I, if my, my son was able to do it And I had him play the guitar every day, and other kids didn't play guitar at all. He's going to be a better guitar player now. He might hate it, and he might, like, not be inspired to develop it on his own. But in those ages when you can control your children, when you can dictate when they go places and what they do, then I think there is a real big advantage in that age group when the kids get the extra touches and the extra ice. No doubt about it. 

Christie Casciano [2:54 - 3:35]: I would have to agree, because, you guys know, kids at that age learn new skills at a dizzying rate, but they need to have the confidence, too, to use them. And I think that extra ice time will give them the confidence. You'll see it happen. Let's say they're weak on crossovers, and this is an example I use with my own kids. You know, they. They weren't great. They were okay. Gave them some extra ice time, and look what happened. They worked on their crossovers, and they had the confidence to do it game time and in skill clinics. And. Yeah, so that extra ice time at a young age can give you a good advantage. 

Mike Bonelli [3:35 - 3:35]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [3:35 - 3:42]: I love both the points, and I think the key that both of you brought up is that I love that you use the word snapshot in time. 

Mike Bonelli [3:42 - 3:43]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [3:43 - 4:49]: Because, yes, I agree with both of you. The more ice time you can get at a young age, the better. Right. We. We say all the time on this show that skating is by far the most important skill. So if you want to learn how to skate, you got to skate. Now, with that said, the. The warning here is this. Your kids have to want to do it. Of course. Right, right. And. And I. I think that that's a key point here, is that, you know, to a point, they have to want to do it if they need extra ice. If you structure them too much at an early age, that's a seed of burnout later on. And I'm not talking so much about responsibility. I'm saying if your kid is kicking and screaming, say, I don't want to go to the rink. Don't take them to the rink. If the kid goes, I'd love to go, or. Yeah, I don't mind that. Take them to the rink again. I think what happens here, though, gang, is that parents often feel pressure when other kids are doing this. All right? And that pressure is not a reason to do it. You do it because the kid wants to do it. Also, you got to discuss again how. Christy, you said this. The early confidence in reps can Boost performance. But again, the. The over structuring can be too much. There's got to be an element of play. 

Mike Bonelli [4:49 - 4:49]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [4:49 - 4:51]: Good balance. That's with anything, right? 

Lee MJ Elias [4:51 - 4:52]: Yeah, absolutely. 

Mike Bonelli [4:53 - 6:16]: I will say this, too. I mean, a lot of it has to do with the. The child's athletic ability. You know, you can give a million private lessons. You can make the kid. You could put the kid with the best coaches in the world. If they're not able to get better, just not able to get better. Just because you put the player on the ice and with skills, coaches and extra. And all this extra work doesn't really mean they're going to be a better hockey player. I mean, I've watched. I mean, it's. It's crazy when you watch parents, like, put their kids through all this, and then they're like, their teammate comes out at 11 years old for the first time. It's like, oh, I want to try hockey, too. And then the kid's better than him in three weeks, right? And I'm like, yeah, because that's the best lacrosse player in town. That kid's the best baseball player in town. That's the best soccer player in town. That kid surf, learned how to surf, you know, the first time he went in the ocean. Like, if you're just a great athlete, you. It's got. Now here's where I think people really start taking this extra ice thing to an extreme. Their kids are maybe better athletes already. And then they. Then they throw on the extra ice piece. They're like, superior. They're superior players at nine, because they're just better athletes than everyone else. But, but all that stuff go. And we'll talk about it, right? But all that stuff goes out the window when you have your own, you know, your own thoughts and your. And your own. And your own ability as a player, you know, to motivate yourself to get up and work out. 

Lee MJ Elias [6:16 - 8:10]: Well, Mike, it's a great segue. It's a great segue into the next part. Yeah, the next part is about size and strength, you know, and. And the early physical developer or the early athlete, you know, look, here's the truth. If your kid grows faster at 8 years old and they have longer legs and more muscle, they're going to appear very dominant. But it is most likely it's not in every case, most likely very temporary. Okay, look, we'll just say it bluntly. Puberty can hit kids at different ages, and growth spurts happen at different ages. Just like kids learn to walk and speak and do things and Read cognitively at different ages. So there's definitely an artificial gap. Right. An early on development that's going to help some kids with skill, execution. All right? And the truth is this, again, not true from all kids. But once the other kids catch up physically, which will happen, the gap often disappears and sometimes it even reverses. Right? So for the parents out there, the key here is don't confuse physical maturity with hockey mastery. Mike, that's the point you were making too. Again, this is such a broad view. Okay, like, like every kid is different. And Mike, like you always say, not my kid. Right, it's not my kid. But the truth is this, Look, I grew 5 inches one year in the summer. And when I came back to hockey, I was the tallest, fastest player on the team and I was 12. All right? So like you just don't know what's going to happen. That's why the steady cadence and understanding how to develop is so important. Right? Because here's something I've never had to deal with. And Mike, maybe I'm not saying this was you, but you know what I never had to deal with was being the best at a young age. And then suddenly I wasn't. It was actually kind of the opposite for me. I got much better as I got older. I don't know what that does psychologically to a kid. When you're scoring 50 goals a year in might in squirt and then, you know, suddenly peewee the other kids start catching up and then in bantam they're hitting and you're not that kid anymore. Right, Right. That's got to be tough psychologically. 

Christie Casciano [8:11 - 8:18]: Right. And the kid who's taller, faster, stronger at a younger age, which was the motivation for the puck hug. 

Lee MJ Elias [8:18 - 8:18]: Right? Right. 

Christie Casciano [8:18 - 8:53]: And dominate and look like a pug hug. And that's why if you're a parent of that kid, reinforce the importance of teamwork, passing, sharing and helping to develop the entire team. And coaches too have a tendency, especially when you've got a kid like that on the team, you're going to put them on the ice more to win. So I think sometimes coaches forget the important lesson of everybody gets is on the team at a young age. Everyone should have equal chances of playing at a young age. 

Mike Bonelli [8:53 - 8:54]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [8:54 - 9:05]: And it's a great opportunity for parents to reinforce that importance of, of being a team player if you've got a kid that's, that's athletically superior than the rest of the kids when they're little. 

Mike Bonelli [9:06 - 9:14]: Ride the superstar. I say ride the superstar. I say, you know, like nobody told Wayne. No, we told Wayne Gretzky to stop scoring 15 goals. He never. 

Lee MJ Elias [9:16 - 11:32]: Okay, okay, here, Mike. You know what I love about you, Mike? I love, you know, I love about Mike Kristy, is that everything he says sounds like a buzzfeed article. There's this huge catch in the rod in the water and he pulls you out. But actually, listen, Mike, you're bringing up a really good point. And actually, I'm gonna actually segue this into the next segment because I think where we're going there is going to do that. The next one is about just shooting and skating stars. Oh, no, no. We're gonna have the fight. That's good broadcasting, right? But listen, listen, Mike, here's the deal. And we all know this. At might, at Squirt, even at peewee, there are kids who can lift the puck early, skate circles around other kids, score more goals than anybody at 8U. Okay? And the truth is this. I'm a hybrid here with Mike. I don't disagree with Mike. If a kid has the ability to go down the ice and score, we shouldn't hold that kid back. But, and there's a huge but here, it's when that kid goes down and he's got three teammates to pass to and he doesn't choose to pass when it's the right move to pass. That is actually a hard one for me. All right? Or adversely, if the kid's skating all the way down the ice and the other three kids aren't skating, that's not the other kid's fault. But like, as a coach, it's like you guys have to go down there and support that player. So again, when a kid has a couple tricks early on, they can lift the puck, they know a skating move, they have a deke. It's great, but it's not going to create a well rounded player. It's not well rounded development. And well rounded development will beat flashy play at a young age. So I want to be very clear on this one more time, all right? If a kid is extremely talented, Mike's not wrong. Why wouldn't you ride that? But, Mike, something you told me once, a long time ago that I want to bring up, and I didn't realize this until I started coaching years ago, was that when you're younger, when you're eight years old, nine years old, the kid who can do everything sometimes, most times to the other kids on the team is a hero. Like they, the kids want that kid to have the puck. They don't see him as A puck hog just yet. At that age, they see, oh, that kid can go in the game. To me, that's dangerous. Right? To me, that's not a good thing. You know, I've always told my athletes at a young age, and again, it's very hard for an 8 year old to fully grasp what I'm about to say. But I still tell them, because you got to plant the seeds, which is that a good player will do that. They'll go down and dig everybody and score. But a great player makes every player on the ice around them better. That's not a skill I can teach you. 

Mike Bonelli [11:33 - 11:53]: I'm not sure who wrote the question as far as who that person is in the relation to the player and, and the, and the team. Right. But you're talking as a coach. Christie's talking as an actual, you know, decent human. Decent human being. I'm not, I'm not speaking from that point of view. I'm speaking from the point. Like, have you ever seen, like, Steven Stamkos, like in videos from the Brick tournament? 

Lee MJ Elias [11:53 - 11:54]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [11:54 - 14:18]: Dominated. He never passed the puck. He said, kessel, whoever, like these, these kids dominate. Now, my rule of thumb for that player is if you, if you can dominate and you can go down and score every single time, and you can make a play every time, do it, do it. Keep doing it until you can't do it, right? And then when you can't do it anymore, then to Lee, then it's, when are you going to move the puck? Yeah, when are you gonna pull up? When are you going to make a play? Like, so my rule with the kids. And again, it usually gets a little laugh because most of the kids, though, they can't do it. I'm like, take the puck as long as you want. You don't have to pay. I don't care if you never get an assist, ever. You keep scoring, we win. You score, you score until you can't. And then the rule goes to my rule. And that's my rule. So now you're speaking as a coach, but if I'm that dad or mom and I'm in the stands, I'm like, screw those other kids. My. I'm gonna. My kid can score goals better than anyone. Like, I don't know who this person is, right? If my kid's the best player on the ice at 8, let them play. Not me. I'm the dad, Right? Let him. I don't care about the other kids because those kids don't care about me. They care about me. They care about me enough to say, put, get the puck to him. He's the best goal scorer. But until you. But then, you know, all that other stuff, parents don't think about enough. They don't think about, well, how does he fit into the locker room? How does this help him mold to a better player later on? Like, how did. My, My son sent me a video the other day. Oh, I forget who the coach is, but he makes fun of coaches. And it was so great how he uses the metaphor of hockey to life. I, I forget who it was, but he's brilliant. And he says, you know, and you know that when the coach gets so mad, they start preaching that, well, this is life, guys. You know, it's not just hockey. This is, this is how you learn life. And if you can't pass, you can't pass in the game of life or whatever the, Whatever it is. Right. But, but, but the fact is, when you come from a parent perspective and you're in that little window of time, you're 9, your kid's 9 years old, he's the best player on the ice. Enjoy that piece. But understand that, that, that, that's very limited. And they have to learn the other. Well, they don't have to. If they continue to score at will, they never have to learn those skills. But, but most of us mortals have to learn all those other skills in order to survive in sport. So that's all I'm saying. Do it until you can't and then learn how to deal with it when you can't not do it. 

Christie Casciano [14:18 - 14:33]: Yeah. I think that if you see it happening, you should be a parent and intervene and explain to your talented ice hockey star what it will mean for the rest of the team if you help them develop and grow talent. 

Lee MJ Elias [14:36 - 14:48]: Okay. Oh, here comes the fight. No, listen, a couple things. It could mean a few things if your kids doing that one is if they're not playing AAA Might Elite should not be a thing. Maybe you're on the wrong team. Maybe you're not on the right team. 

Mike Bonelli [14:48 - 14:49]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [14:49 - 15:21]: But the other thing I would say is this. And Mike, I do. I'm not being funny. I love your ability to take a thought full circle. Just when I think you're gonna go off the deep end, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. But here's why I love that about you. The other thing I'm gonna say is this, is that. Look, if you're winning six, seven goals, I, I'm gonna say this as a coach, there is a value at that point of learning to pass. All right. Because if you already know you're dominating the other team, like I want you, I, as a coach, it's not. I'm trying to keep you from scoring. I'm literally trying to teach you another skill. You got to learn to pass. 

Mike Bonelli [15:21 - 15:21]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [15:21 - 15:22]: All right. 

Mike Bonelli [15:22 - 16:24]: At that age, I think I have a good example. I'm going to give an example from lacrosse season this year. So we have, you know, lacrosse. You know, in lacrosse you could like sometimes if you're the best runner, you can run and score well. Like, yeah, same thing with skins that don't have great defense or no defense, you could run and score like you. So those kids that score like 10, 12, 13 goals a game, my question is, yeah, but can you play off the ball? Can you play off the puck? Can you do things that when there is better defense, when there is constraints on you, when they're, when you are getting double teamed and triple team, how or you know, when you do have to distribute the ball or the puck now how do you play? And as. And parents beware, right? As you get older and again and again, I'm just saying this. It does not matter at nine years old, be the best player in the world. Just go score, Will. But you know, play in the lowest division and go on Facebook and say your son scored 18 goals. Great. But eventually even the best players in the world have to be able to play off the puck. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:24 - 16:25]: Right? 

Mike Bonelli [16:25 - 16:35]: And in part of the play. And if they don't and they, they can't contribute. I mean, if, if that, if, if the case was the best player in the world could just go win games, Connor McDavid would have seven Stanley Cups. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:35 - 16:36]: 100. 

Mike Bonelli [16:36 - 16:37]: Right. So. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:37 - 16:47]: And John Cooper, a coach of the Tampa Bay Lightning, said, said recently that, you know, the best player in the world, best players in the world are going to have the puck on their stick. 30 to 45 seconds a game. 

Christie Casciano [16:47 - 16:47]: Correct. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:47 - 16:49]: Maximum. Maximum. 

Mike Bonelli [16:49 - 16:50]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:50 - 18:15]: So it's what you do without the puck. And I'm gonna throw in one more caveat here, guys, because I think, I think it's a good point that you guys are making. It's this, Mike. I actually, if the kids working so hard to get that puck every shift and they want to go down and score, I actually love that as a coach. I do. Right. Even with everything I said, the one that gets me is when the puck doesn't come right to their stick and they just give up on the play and they go, okay, I'll wait for the next one. I can't handle that. All right? Like, if you're gonna be the kid that Mike's talking about, which, by the way, is the point. 001% of kids, all right, you better work, all right? Because if you're not working, you're not. You're not winning, all right? And look, I'll say this just to close this section out. Just because they're ahead. Just because they're ahead does not mean they're advancing. There's two different things they can be mixed up. All right, the next one. Next. Next segment is the one I talked about in the open. Hard habits to break. Yeah, right. Early dominant kids, they build these habits, guys, that are so hard to unlearn over stick handling. Oh, my goodness. I know a kid who can get to the net and always makes one extra move and misses the shot, avoiding passes. We just talked about that. Playing one on five. Oh, my goodness. I can't. I lose my brain when I see this at any level, all right? Chasing pucks rather than thinking about other possibilities when three or four players are chasing the puck. Right, guys? This is hockey iq, all right? 

Mike Bonelli [18:15 - 18:16]: Correct again. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:16 - 18:46]: I said it in the open. Parents, please tell your children when they go one on one against the D, when you know they can skate around and they're not protecting the puck, and we all know they're just trying to make a highlight real goal, whether it's one on one, one on two, I don't understand how we allow that to happen. Right? It is. It's. It's not a hockey play. The kid gets through one out of ten times, Christie, and thinks they're a hero. I. This is such a habit for me. And, like, I don't see this at just younger ages. I see this at older ages. 

Mike Bonelli [18:47 - 18:47]: Sure. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:47 - 18:56]: It makes no sense to me. So these are the habits being built, Mike, from your superstar, that you're talking about going in and scoring on everybody because they're not learning how to protect the puck. 

Mike Bonelli [18:56 - 18:57]: Right? 

Christie Casciano [18:57 - 19:26]: And beyond just the hockey skills, the basic skating skills, I mean, you see so many kids out there who never learned how to develop their stride right? Their edges, their crossovers, all the basic skating skills get overlooked because they're so focused on developing their skills, stick handling and their shots. So don't forget to break the bad habits at an early age of just basic skating. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:26 - 19:51]: Right? And let's. Let's also make the point, Christy, that let's say your kid is a fantastic skater at nine, then you go up a level, and everyone's suddenly a fantastic skater. I really see this every year when kids jump from Squirt to Peewee, or I'm sorry, 10U to 12U. Because there really is a development jump here. And the superstar from Squirt may still be very good in Peewee, don't get me wrong. But now there's a lot of good kids, and the one move is not going to work anymore. 

Mike Bonelli [19:51 - 19:52]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:52 - 21:19]: All right, so we also praise these bad habits. And Mike, I am going to pick on you here, the kid who scores 50, 60, 70, 80 goals, all right? I'm not talking about the next Wayne Gretzky. We praise them and praise them and then suddenly they can't pass. All right? And they get to the next level. They never learn how to pass. So we. It's situational awareness. Okay, so Mike, to your point, like, we love points, we love goals. Although I still think there's an a super disturbing lack of respect for assists as points. Right? Change the game when they're young, Change the game. Don't just get points for goals. Points for goals, points for assists, points for other things. Hard play. We can do that as youth coaches, again, when they get older. Just to prove my point, on the elite teams I coach, I have a different point point structure, right? Goalies don't get points, but they do on my team if they make good situational plays. Defensemen don't get third assists, but they get points. For me, when you make a great breakout pass, right. These are things that, that need to be put into the game at a younger age. It blows my mind that we do not value assists as much as goals. I blow. I mean, again, coming from a former playmaker, right? So I'm a little, little biased on this one because I was a playmaker. They count the same amount. Favorite stat in the world. I use it all the time. If Wayne Gretzky never scored a goal ever, he'd still be leading all time in points in the NHL because of his 2000 plus assists. 

Mike Bonelli [21:19 - 21:19]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [21:20 - 21:27]: Okay, so, Mike, I charged you up. Here I am tossing this to you for your thoughts. Again, the habits to break is what we're talking about. 

Mike Bonelli [21:28 - 22:59]: Yeah, I think we see it as we're starting to see it more and more and more during tryouts. And like when you do block drills with kids and you see them playing and they could get around the deviator. And like, if I watch, I would say 90 of the private lessons that I see when I walk into a rink is a kid skating around a deviator, around the cone, shooting in a net. Now, number one is they don't. They don't skate around anybody like that in games. They get two shots a game, not 50. So then they're working. You know, they're all working on the wrong thing. So they're building their bad habits under things that aren't going to help them anyway. Like, so it's like, to me, like, you shouldn't be working on stick handling through somebody four times in the corner and then taking a shot on that. You know, maybe that drill has to end with a pass. Maybe it has to be like, I do. Like, I know when I work with my kids, it's all one, boom. Play, a play, a play, a play, a play. That's the game of hockey. It's not down the corner, up the side, up the boards. Sidney Crosby does that. Yeah. You know, yes, there are certain players, they will do that. But as players. Players get really good at defending, you're like, okay, yeah, you could go do 100 figure eights in the corner. I don't care. Like, you eventually got to get through me. So I think, like, when you see those habits being formed, they get reinforced and reinforced, because that's the only nine seconds you see on Instagram. That's it. You don't see all the work that went into it. And I think that's where coaches have to step in and. And be more influential in the work ethic. Now, as a. As. As a really bad coach at the youth level, I would have to depend on point structures that didn't include goal scoring. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:59 - 22:59]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [22:59 - 24:09]: Because I never had goal scorers. So I'm like, I can't just depend on the leading goal scorer here. I gotta. I gotta depend on, you know, who gets turnovers, who gets the puck the most, you know, on the inside, the blue line, you know, who gets the most. Who. Who doesn't have to chip the puck off the glass, who can make a play in Ind. Who could make 15 indirect passes today. Like, all these little things that you could do to develop your kids at the youth level, it could be or a game within the game, and I think that's preparing them. But again, that's not really an appreciated piece at youth hockey that you're developing. Like, everybody talks about, oh, my kids in this program because of development. And, like, when you as a coach talk about development, you're thinking, oh, development. Like, I don't care what the kid looks like at 7, I want to come back and see him at 18. And then. But it's. It. Listen, I get it. It's impossible for people to see 18 when you're seven. Oh, that's right. Well, I mean, but I just think that, I just think it's hard for like a coach to, to continue to sugarcoat because when you want real development at the youth level, a lot of times winning doesn't happen because you might not let that player not pass the pot. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:09 - 24:17]: I don't, I don't know if I believe, if I agree with you there, Mike. I mean, it depends, it depends on who you're coaching the team. Because I'll tell you what, you know, I'm a big believer in team building and team bonding. 

Mike Bonelli [24:18 - 24:18]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:18 - 25:11]: All right. And I have seen really close knit teams with really, again, the environment has to be right. Good parents, good kids, and they work together and they can beat the team with the superstar. All right. But I will also say, Mike, to your, to your defense, that's also pretty rare. Like, that's not exactly something I see all the time. Right. That's not as Rare as the 300 goal scorer, but it is rare. But I, I do know what you're saying. Like, I don't think you have to look at it as sacrificing wins, but it does depend on how you define winning. Because if it's just, if it's just winning the game at youth hockey, man, we have lost. I always say, obviously I want to win games, Mike. I do want to win games, like for all the parents out there, because I, Christy, I, I get this, this thrown at me all the time. So you don't care about winning the games? I want to win every game. I want to win every game that I'm coaching. I'm just saying, as Christy just said, there's more than one win here. 

Christie Casciano [25:11 - 25:11]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [25:11 - 25:31]: All right. And that's okay. It's like the win at all costs attitude in terms of the game, in a game where we might not even be keeping score is ridiculous to me. Right. And the more you coach that level, the more you know it. Yeah, well, you're creating little a holes is what happens at that point. Let's just call it what it is. 

Christie Casciano [25:31 - 25:35]: That's exactly where my mind was going. Thank you for saying that. 

Mike Bonelli [25:35 - 27:21]: I, I coached, I did a modified group this year in the spring, and it was all like, these are, you know, sixth, seventh and eighth graders. And right from the beginning, knowing, and I think we had actually a pretty good team, you know, in this first spring. But the, the, the, the common theme, and it was repeated before games, in between periods, after games, win or loss, was that we are not here for the winds of Spring. We're not here for the spring championship. We're here to prepare you for high school. Your only reason you're playing here now, you could go play on a spring team and go win tournaments, go nuts. I mean, I think that's great, but the only reason you're here. So when we were hot, when we were playing, when we were winning by nine goals in a game, Right. We would. We would come back and say, why are we here? We're here to get. We're here so we can get ready for high school. Okay, so does this look like high school to you? No. Okay, so we need to change this. We could be losing by 10 goals. We suck. Why are we here? Because I want to play in high school. Okay, so what. What would you need to do? Like, all the little nuances of play. And I'll tell you, not that it diminished the wins or the losses. I don't think it made them, you know, sway one way or another, really, in the. In the minds of moms and dads. But I can't. I'm telling. Right. For the kids, they really get off the ice after a loss or a win and be like, okay, whatever, it's spring. I learned something today that's going to help me later. Like, so framing that, framing that, that philosophy of your development time, which in my case was eight weeks in the spring, it really helped me avoid the. The craziness of the highs and lows of winning because that wasn't the primary, you know, vehicle for what we were doing with the kids. Yeah. Although we celebrated the wins and we. And we, you know, felt bad about the losses, but, you know, everybody had ice cream afterwards anyway, so I'll leave. 

Christie Casciano [27:21 - 27:22]: This makes everything better. 

Lee MJ Elias [27:22 - 27:22]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [27:22 - 27:23]: Yeah. You know, what do you need? 

Lee MJ Elias [27:23 - 27:56]: Yeah. I will leave this section with a quick story before we finally get to our final section, is that last year I was coaching two really talented players who had moved up a level, and one was actually on the shorter side. Okay. Very, very talented in terms of what we're talking about. And I watched these two at the beginning of the season start around the same skill level. And I watched the. The taller player not change. Not change at all. And what happened is the habits were showing, and it was very easy to stop him. And he was, you know, maybe scoring once a game, but he could have had five or six. 

Mike Bonelli [27:56 - 27:56]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [27:56 - 28:13]: And it was obvious he was so frustrated every game, he wasn't evolving. Whereas the shorter player evolved, saw the ice, started passing, started changing his game, started understanding. I can't do this here. And by the end of the season, easily our top player by miles. Right. But they started at the same place. 

Christie Casciano [28:14 - 28:43]: Right. Okay, I've seen that, too. I've seen that. You know, throughout the years of hockey, you know, looking back a few years, when my kids were young, there were the dominant players who dominated at age 8. But then by age 10, all the kids were catching up, and they didn't advance their skills, and they were no longer the star on the team because they. They got lazy. Oh, I don't need to work on that. I score all the goals. 

Mike Bonelli [28:44 - 28:44]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [28:44 - 28:53]: So you do see, development can. Can weaken if a player isn't told, you need to work on your other skills. 

Mike Bonelli [28:53 - 28:54]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:54 - 29:04]: The key word for him, for me here, was coachability. Coachability. The shorter player listened, learned. His father understood. He said, no, listen, like they're teaching you something. 

Christie Casciano [29:04 - 29:04]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:04 - 29:40]: Whereas the other players opposite, you go down the middle. You go. You do this completely uncontradictory to the system. We were playing, by the way. All right. And the kid was frustrated. Parents, you play a role in this. All right. The one father was open. Yeah, my kid was the best. Still is very good. But I want him to learn more. All right, that brings us to our final segment here. All right. And this one's close to my heart because this was me. The grinders emerge at 13, 12, 11 years old, and I'll be honest with you, late bloomers often succeed, and I'll tell you why. Right. When you're great at eight, you attend. 

Mike Bonelli [29:40 - 29:40]: You. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:40 - 32:06]: You know, you want to become a leader by 12, you and you may be, but when the kid comes in, that has resilience, coachability, and wants to learn a deeper understanding of the game and wants to have a growth mindset at 12, which is a cognitive area in your life where you're way more ready to receive. That kid can jump. And again, the quick story here, and I'm. I am going to use myself, was I didn't start playing till I was 12. I. If you listen to the show, you know that story. All right, Now, I could skate. The gift that I had is I could skate. I was the fastest skater on my team the second I joined the team. Okay. But I didn't know anything. They used to call me stone hands because I couldn't score, but I wanted to learn. And I realized very quickly with my speed, I can't shoot well yet, but I can pass. All right. The shooting did come later, but I. I had such a yearning to learn that I was easily every year the first few years, I played one of the lower players on the team. By the end of the season, I was one of the top players on the team. I just wanted it more. All right? And. And that came from a little bit of desperation of, oh, I gotta catch up, all right? But the reason I'm bringing this up is that I played with kids who had been superstars at 8, 9, 10. And my work ethic, not that they weren't great hockey players, just it helped me to catch up. Right? I'm not going to say I jumped all of them, but I caught up very quickly. The late bloomer, the grinder, is someone you got to know exists. So if your kid is tremendous at 8, you, that's great. When that kid shows up at 12, that just wants it more than your kid because everything's been coming easy to them. Your kid better have some competitive level there or they're going to be in trouble or that other kid's going to take over. So, again, look, the journey is not linear, right? Effort, attitude, adaptability can usually win out over stats. All right, I'm gonna say this, too. I played on more B teams than A teams growing up, and I went further. And it's not a brag, it's reality. I went further than 99 of the players I played with that were superstars at a young age. I gotta say, once. I'm really. I'm using it as example. I'm not bragging, okay? I didn't go to the NHL or anything like that, okay. But I, you know, I got to play college and I had a cup of coffee in the minors. I started 12. I had six. Yes. Less years than these other kids. All right, so point is, you never know. And. And if there's anything to take away from that, it's if you're great at six, I am so happy for you. I really mean that. I'm not being sarcastic, but you got to be able to grind when you're 12. 

Christie Casciano [32:06 - 32:55]: Very, very true. My son also started late. He didn't start hockey until he was eight. And you think eight what? No. Kids were skating circles around him. But my late husband, he was so. He was such an athlete, too. And he knew Joey really wanted to play, but he helped him gain confidence. And as I said earlier, confidence can be just as important as the skills. And one of the biggest lessons he taught him is okay to make mistakes and learn how to take that in stride as well. So he. He worked really hard and got a lot of support from my late husband and that confidence, every time he went out there, he worked, worked, worked. He was a grinder. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:55 - 32:55]: Right. 

Christie Casciano [32:55 - 33:09]: And another year, you could not tell. He was the young, not the youngest, but the skater with the least amount of hockey experience. At age 9, he was equal. Because he worked hard. 

Lee MJ Elias [33:09 - 33:09]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [33:09 - 33:11]: And wasn't afraid to make mistakes. 

Lee MJ Elias [33:11 - 33:26]: You're bringing up a good point that I should have mentioned, too, is that my. My mom and dad were very great parents, too, at this time, and very encouraging. And giving me the right messages makes the difference. Yeah. Just like your husband. Right. Like. Like, they helped me earn that confidence to keep going. 

Christie Casciano [33:26 - 33:26]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [33:26 - 33:40]: And I should say this, too. I. Look, I'm also an athlete. Right. I had the genetic side of this as well, where I had some gifts, but, you know, I had some hard times in the beginning when kids were better than me. But, hey, keep going, keep grinding, keep learning. 

Christie Casciano [33:40 - 33:40]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [33:40 - 33:47]: The key point, Mike, I'm going to throw it to you. And we have to say this. That has served me so well in life, to your point. 

Christie Casciano [33:47 - 33:48]: My goodness. 

Lee MJ Elias [33:48 - 34:12]: Okay. Beyond hockey. Yeah. Like. Like, it was the complete foundation for how I became an adult. All right, so that was the real win. Aside from hockey, I feel like I. Again, when I was a kid, I didn't have the grip as a kid. I'm going to the NHL. I'm going to play pro hockey. So when I became an adult, it's like, oh, wow. I have all these great grinding skill sets. Mike, close us out on this one. The grinder emerges. You've seen it all the time, Mike. You were a grinder. You know where you were a grinder? 

Mike Bonelli [34:13 - 35:07]: Yeah. No, listen. I got on the ice at 11, 12 years old. My father was not the same. He said, get that kid off the ice. He's like, do you want to do what? Like. Like, this is not right. Like, it's not. It's embarrassing. And the other kids, you know, But I will say I had great, great coaches, great people that said, wow, this kid, you know, I've seen him do other things. Like, I just watched this kid play football and soccer and baseball, and I bet he could play hockey. We just have to get him on the ice. And, you know, and literally, I would take the train every. Every morning, the whole summer. One whole summer, I went from not being able to skate to making the best team in our little town just because I. Every morning I get up on. I get up, I'd walk to the rink, I'd skate before the figure skaters got there. Clean the boards, grind, grinding it out, you know, earning Ice time. Right? And I drove that experience because I think at 11, 12, 13 years old, I'm the one that drove my experience. Like, I'm the one that pushed my own it. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:07 - 35:08]: You owned it. 

Mike Bonelli [35:08 - 35:45]: Like, I didn't. I didn't care that I was missing out on things. Even in high school. Like, it didn't. Like, where a lot of my friends were burnt, like, they were done with hockey because they'd already played for 12 years. I was more like, I'm just getting into this. This is unbelievable. Like, this is, like, the coolest thing in the world. Like, I want to be as good as you are, and I actually am very envious of you that you're this good. Like, you're this good just because you're this good. Like, and we. And again, these. This is why athletics is such a equalizer, because you have some kids, is that I had college teammates that never worked out, never did anything smoked, drank, did everything they could do, and they're best players on the ice. They would come and be the best. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:45 - 35:46]: Yeah, I've seen that, too. 

Mike Bonelli [35:46 - 36:48]: I'm like, son of a. I'm like, you got to be kidding me. Like, this is not fair. Like, I'm doing all these other things. I'm sacrificing, and I can't even be, like, 1/10 as good as you, right? But you grind it out, you grit it out, you play hard, and then you. You just find a way to get in there. And again, there are. There are the. There are the early bloomers that continue to be great. They're the early bloomers that. That fade out. They're the late bloomers that just. They love it, right? But you just. Can't you just. Like. I mean, listen, there was a lot of times in my life, I'm like, oh, I wish I. I wish I had five years earlier just because I think I would have been here. But again, this is all why athletics is so great, because you could. Because at the end of the day, you're in a locker room with a bunch of guys. Well, you know, whatever. In my case, a bunch of guys. And you just. You just. Everybody had a role, and everybody had to play something in there to win, and everybody had to contribute. And that all of a sudden, it equalizes like, okay, yeah, you're the goal scorer. You're the guy that's going to go in the corner, get your head beat in. You're the guy's gonna stop the puck. And I think there's. There's. There's a lot of different roles of, of, you know, when you do talk about how does this relate to life? 

Lee MJ Elias [36:48 - 36:49]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [36:49 - 36:53]: I do, I do think there's a lot of similarities there and, and examples. 

Lee MJ Elias [36:53 - 37:07]: Well, here's how. I'll close your section out, Mike. All those guys you played with that smoked and did the other stuff, not one of them is the host of a three time award winning podcast listened to by tens of thousands of people about the game that we love. 

Mike Bonelli [37:07 - 37:11]: But yeah, everyone's tech, Darryl and DM me saying, what the hell are you talking about? 

Lee MJ Elias [37:13 - 38:04]: All right, listen, this has been a great episode. We're going to close it out. Look, just three quick reminders, all right? No matter where you're at in the game, development takes time. Takes time. Development takes time. Number two, don't panic, parents. If your kid's not the biggest, the fastest or the best scorer at 8U or 10U, there's nothing to panic about. I've heard, oh, my kid's the worst skater out there. Give it time. Development takes time. And the last one, focus on progress, love of the game and a well rounded skill set. If your kid has one skill that's better than the other ones, great. Develop the other skills. It's just good advice. All right? Even with Mike would say, if you can go down score 100 times, that kid has a lot of different skills, not just the ability to shoot the pot. All right, Sidney Crosby knows how to find open ice, all right? He learned. So does Connor McDavid. All right, great episode, guys. I loved every second of this. Again, wherever you're at in your journey, friends, enjoy it, okay? You only get to do it once, right? 

Christie Casciano [38:07 - 38:15]: We make entire episodes out of your questions, just like what we did today. So keep it coming. You love the feedback. 

Lee MJ Elias [38:15 - 39:05]: Yeah. Big thank you to Tony for suggesting this one. Remember, if this one, if this resonated with you, share it. Share with a hockey player that needs to to hear it. Our audience is always growing. You can be an active participant in that and make sure you check out all our episodes on our kids playhockey.com but for Christy Casciano Burns, I'm going to say this. I'm going to say this. Michael Anthony Christopher Benelli iii. That is a real name, people. I'm Lee Elias. We'll see you on the next episode of our Kids Play Hockey. Have fun, skate hard. We'll see you next time. We hope you enjoyed this edition of our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now. If you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kids play hockey.com also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey stops@when hockeystops.com. it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. 

Mike Bonelli [39:05 - 39:06]: We're very proud of it. 

Lee MJ Elias [39:06 - 39:11]: But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.