From NHL Ironman to Hockey Dad: Karl Alzner on Development, Leadership & Balance

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another

episode of Our Kids

Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias, joined by my co-host Mike Bonelli. Christie Casciano-

Burns is on

assignment today, literally in the newsroom again. But that's not going to stop us

from recording

because our guest today has built an amazing NHL career on a word we love as

coaches,

consistency. Karl Alzner was drafted fifth overall by the washington capitals in

2007 and went on

to play nearly 600 nhl games with the caps and the canadiens he won two world

junior gold medals

with team canada serving as captain something we'll talk about today and became

known throughout

the league as a steady dependable defenseman steady dependable defenseman

we talked about this all

the time on the air how wonderful steady dependable defensemen are at one point

Karl played 428

consecutive nhl game it's one of the longest iron man streaks in the league a

reflection of

preparation, discipline, and reliability. And today, we're going to talk about what it

really means

to be dependable and how young players can earn trust and what players and

coaches sometimes

misunderstand about development. We're also going to touch upon the upcoming

Ice Hockey Cup in

Scotland, where Karl will be representing Team Canada in a USA vs. Canada

series. Reaching a lot of

former NHL players, many whom you have heard from on this show. Karl, welcome

to Our Kids Play

Hockey. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me. This is a world that I'm knee

deep in right

now. So fun to talk about some hockey and kids sports in general. Yeah,

no, we're going to talk about it. Folks at home, we talked in the pre-show. Karl's

got kids in the

game. He's actually going to a practice after we're done recording here. It's a

perfect

environment, Karl. You know, where I want to start, though, because this is a cool

question to ask.

We said you were the C for Canada at the World Juniors before you were even an

NHL regular. I want

to start here because, you know, for the young players listening, I always get asked

a lot, hey,

are we going to have captains this year? Can we be captains? What do you feelreal leadership looks

like in youth hockey? And for the parents and coaches, how do we help kids grow

into leaders

instead of just throwing a C on their chest just for that notoriety of it? You know,

I think the main, it's the same. I think it's really the same in youth hockey as it is as

you get

older and older. But it's, you know, following the rules or the game plan set out by

the coaching

staff, right? You don't want a player that's just going to go off script. And, you

know, why is

player A doing this, but player B, C, and D don't have to do that, right? You want

your captain or

your leader to... execute whatever that game plan is or just work ethic.

You want them to be the type of person that I think brings the team together a

little bit as well.

It's a lot to ask of a youth hockey player, a youth player in general is to be

someone that brings

the team together. But I've unfortunately seen it already a few too many times

where your best

player is harping on other players for not being good enough. And it's just like, that

just hurts

confidence instantly, right? And as young kids, they don't quite know how to deal

with that and you

want them to go there and have fun. So I'd see a little bit more of a glue guy or girl

than just

being, you know, give me the puck and watch what I do with that type of person.

So in my opinion,

those are the two things, you know, follows direction and works hard and can be

liked by everybody

or at least respected by everybody. You know, it's amazing, right, that when you

get to the World

Juniors, you're a captain, but in a room full of probably captains, right? I mean, all

those guys

go in that room. They're all probably captains of their teams that they're coming

from. or close to

it, right? So how would you, like, how did you deal with that? Like, did you, I mean,

was it

something where, like, listen, you know, I know as a coach, we talk about, like, you

don't have to

be where to see to be a captain material, like to be vocal or to be, you know,

to stand up and say something in the room or be a leader and lead in whatever

ways. I mean,

do you find out that your team obviously was a great thing to be recognized as a

captain ofcaptains? But what do you have to do as that leader to allow those other leaders to

kind of emerge?

Yeah. So, I mean, I was lucky because I was one of three players that returned that

year,

Sam Gagne and Brad Marshall being the other two. And so we got to rely on our

experience from the

year before of going into a shootout against Team USA. you know, getting all the

way to the finals,

also playing in Europe, which is much different than playing in North America. And

so I think it

was somewhat of a natural decision for the coaching staff to make one of us,

you know, the captain and have the others as assistants or I guess tag us as the

leadership

committee on that team. So using that to help the other players understand,

you know, what we were going to be going through, how. You know, although

social media wasn't

really that big at that point, there's still going to be people reaching out and going

crazy. And

we lost a game in the round robin. And we felt it. Like, even though we were in

Europe,

we knew people weren't happy with us. So relying on us to be able to just settle

everybody down

and, you know, let's not go through the motions, but knowing that it was just a

game and we get

back to what we need to do. So I think coming into it, the other players had a bit of

a level of

respect for us already knowing that we had gone through it and we were you know

some of the older

players on the team so naturally there was just more you know let's listen to what

they they have

to say and they can tell us about the experience um but i've never been overly

vocal i'm i'm a

player that tries to lead by example tries to show up all the time as kind of

mentioned in the in

the beginning of the show um and just and just show them by that, right? I wasn't

the best player

on the team, not by a mile. We had some unbelievable skill on that squad. So to go

in there and

fill a role as your captain and not be the Crosby, the OV, you know,

the McDavid's, but be more of that secondary guy, it was easy for me to do and

just try and keep

the dressing room as level as possible.

You know, I want to ask this too. I always say this to the kids because I get asked a

lot, like Itold you as a youth coach about captaincy. And I always say that, you know, that C

could stand for

conduit in the sense of you're a conduit for the coaches and you're a conduit for

your teammates.

It's not just about you. And I always tell young kids too that the best captains that

I've ever

coached or even played for or with didn't need that C. to be a captain yeah right

and i know you're

that type of guy too you said you led by example and i always tell young people

that that's

something to really think about right if you need that c to quote unquote play

better or lead you

probably shouldn't have it yet right because because that's not what it represents

right um i gotta

ask this too you know speaking of c's right you played with someone who happens

to be one of the

longest tenured captains in the history of the nhl now and alex ovechkin This

whole show is about

you. Don't worry. I want to talk about you. But we'd be remiss if we didn't ask you

for a little

bit of the peek behind the curtain of what kind of a leader Alex is in the sense of

because like,

look, like the younger Alex Ovechkin is very flashy. You know, the older Alex

Ovechkin is very

established. But you were with him. You understood the guy, right? What was he

like as a leader? I

mean, he was a different type of leader than you would say as your like

prototypical captain,

right? Like if you think you're. your normal leader you probably go more towards

like a steve

eiserman you know sydney crosby you know as as people kind of know yeah or

messier um He was

different in the sense that he was just that energy guy that had lots of excitement.

And so he kind

of would drag the team along because of that. You know what I mean? He would

go out there and smash

guys and get everybody fired up. And that's how he led. But, you know,

he was also on another planet with his ability to score goals. And so nobody could

really relate to

that side of your cap, right? Yeah, it was just impossible.

we as a as a team kind of relied on the on the leadership group you know it wasn't

like you

mentioned it doesn't have to be the guy just wearing the c we had a group that we

kind of relied onwhereas like nick backstrom or justin williams we had for a little bit they were

almost like the

more relatable and so you know you have those guys that kind of paint this picture

and then you

have obi that just grabs you and drags you along with them so i think that's the

makeup of a good

of a good leadership group right it isn't just one player i think yeah going back to

who your

captain is or who your your season a's are um i think they have to be um you know

people who are

observant and can kind of understand what the undertones of the dressing room

are right because you

need to be able to relay that message to the staff like hey boys aren't happy today

they're tired

they they're pissed off you know they don't want to do this and in practice or that

was a bad

practice whatever it may be and be able to deliver that message to the coaching

staff and then be

able to bring it back to the players as well and deliver that in the right way so right

it's a it's

a player that can really have a good pulse of the dressing room and not just be like

in your own

world all the time it's like this is the way i see it i don't care how that fort line sees

it right

now or that that the five six defenseman you need to be able to try and round out

the entire

picture which is not not that easy to do it takes a special type of person to be like

that type of

captain but you could have someone who just like oh yeah this kind of goes into

another question

right but that that like thinking about the captaincy and thinking about You talked a

little bit

about being in the World Juniors and the team across the world basically loses a

game and you feel

it. And I think at a young age, I think you're probably, obviously at 18 years old,

there's a lot of expectations for your fifth round draft choice and you're playing for

your country

and all the guys in the room have that same feeling. But now that you're a youth

hockey parent and

you're in the world of youth hockey, we're seeing those levels of expectations for

kids.

start happening at like seven years old and like what could you i mean number one

is not i'd love

to hear if you had if you think you had that because obviously you're probably agreat player at a

young age but how would you then you know advise and help parents today that

have high performing

athletes they know they're high performers you know but there's there's really a

lot of some

realistic and many unrealistic expectations and pressure that comes with being a

you know a great

player at a young age

Yeah, I mean, this is the discussion we have amongst parents right now all the

time. And I always

asking other, you know, former teammates and stuff that have kids that are going

through it

because, you know, our area is, you know, hockey is buzzing in Northern Virginia,

but the level of

hockey isn't, you know, quite as high as it is, you know, back home where I'm from

in Vancouver or,

you know, say Toronto or Minnesota, right? It's just... just a different level. And so

I'm asking

them, picking their brains all the time. And the one thing that I keep hearing and

keep coming back

to is just to try and enjoy the ride. Don't put so much pressure on them,

which you guys, I know, know that. If you have a kid that is just asking for more,

asking for more, sure, give them some more. But also there needs to be some

separation,

right? Like I'm going through it right now where You know, we have evaluations,

you know,

this next few weeks and their parents are already asking, you know, what spring

hockey are they

going to do? What camps are they going to do? And they're like, oh, yeah, they're

doing the

baseball camp this summer and the baseball spring hockey.

And they're going to do something different because I want them to refresh. I want

them to reset.

And people have heard Blaine Gretzky say this too, end of the season. you know,

throw the bag down to the basement, grab something else and work on different

skills because they

may not be directly hockey skills, but they're applicable in certain instances, right?

And so

that's kind of what, you know, we keep coming back to is if your kid shows insane

amount of

interest and that's all they want to do, you'll let them pursue it. But enjoy this ride

while

they're doing it and let it kind of... unfold i'll give you a funny line that shea weber

actuallytold me when i asked him this question i said you know what's it like coaching

coaching the kids

and this is when his team was uh they were they were nine and on eight nine years

old and he said

he had to sit down all the parents all the he took all the dads put them in a room

and he just said

let them all know he said just just so we all know here not a single one of our kids

is going to

make the nhl and he said he watched all their faces just drop and they're like huh

he's like so

Let's have fun. You know, let's enjoy our time at the rink. Let's enjoy, you know, the

bonding that

we get to have and watching our kids play. And things will be more fun. And he

said it completely

shifted. So adjusting the expectations. Of course, we want our kids to play major

junior,

college, NHL, whatever it is. But, you know, these are fun memories. So let's enjoy

the memories

instead of being pissed off all the time. I wonder how many people left that team at

the end of the

year. I'm just wondering, like, you know, because, like, what the hell does he know?

But I think

that's like what I'm getting at, right, is that I think what happens, right,

and you're seeing it now, is that the parents that don't take off, like they think they

have the

edge. They go, well, I'm going to catch my kid up because I'm going to put him in

hockey, and by

the time September rolls around, I'm going to have surpassed. But the fact is,

right, and you've

seen this probably, I mean, I'd love to hear your opinion on this, that a kid that's

going to be a

hockey player, that's going to be an NHL player. can probably put their skates

away and come back

in September and in four days be better than the kid that's just worked out for six

other months in

hockey. Because they're just better. They're better athletes. They're probably

more refreshed. They

probably have a different mindset. They're hungrier. And again, they're probably

not in a position

like we all. It's ironic that the people that are mentioning the right thing to do are

all the

people that actually did it. And the people that are joining all the other things. are

the people

that have never experienced it. And you're like, well, why don't we listen? If youhave somebody

that's a world-class tax person, maybe have them do your taxes, not some guy

who can't add.

And I think that's to your point with the pros. Pro guys, we've had, I don't know,

Lee could say how many pro guys we've had on the show that are coaching their

kids. And that

message, we could... It could be on just a roll. And it's just funny how you could

hear it,

but then they say, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's not my fault. Well, I think we need

to remember,

because we hear all of the outlier stories, right? We hear about the Williams sisters

in tennis.

We hear about Tiger in golf and Andre Agassi, where they just grind, grind,

grind, and they become world class, where that's one of the other 50 that made it,

right? Who didn't. get ground into the ground and also made it right and so we

don't always get to

hear the other story because they're less interesting. They're less glamorous. Oh,

this kid played

hockey as well as baseball, as well as lacrosse, but they just so happened to make

it in hockey.

You know what I mean? Like we just don't hear those stories. And not to bring up a

sore subject,

but like that was like, you know, Connor Hellebuck story, right? Like all of a sudden

when, when US

wins gold medal and you got Connor Hellebuck and everybody wants to repeat the

story that he wasn't

a, you know, he wasn't a triple A goalie growing up, that he, he went a different

path and you

would hope that that would swing the pendulum a little bit. Like people like, oh,

well, you know,

there is other paths. Like, yes, and that's more the norm. But we don't celebrate

that.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, Mike Green's a good example, too. He didn't really get too

heavy into hockey

until, I mean, you have to fact check me on this, but I don't even think he started

really playing

hockey until 10 years old, which parents who listen to this are probably like, 10

years old?

My kid's been playing travel already for five years. like it's hard to believe and he

was able to

by junior by six by 16 17 18 become one of the best junior hockey players in all of

canada right so

it can happen fast it doesn't you do other things and and the kids are resilient they

figure it outyeah Karl we had you reminded me we had an episode with chris terrien And he

shocked the audience

by telling everybody he didn't play when he was 15. He like quit hockey for a year

when he was 15.

It just goes to show you that there's no one path. You know, one thing you brought

up that I really

do love is about the spring. You know, as of right now, my kids don't play hockey in

the spring.

Right. And they haven't asked to play hockey in the spring. If they do, we'll have

that

conversation. But what that has gifted me as a coach and as a father is without

fail.

Uh, when we get to kind of, you know, June, July, late July, I hear parents listening.

This is the most refreshing thing I can hear is, Hey dad, when are we getting on

the ice again?

When can we play hockey again? They are excited to be back out on the ice at that

point. Right. And

I'll tell you right now, the kid that's playing year round parents, you might say, well,

he feels

that way. She feels that way. Well, you wouldn't know. Cause you're not taking any

breaks. Right.

Well, and I will, and I will say, cause I've run into a lot of people listening to the

show and I

don't want to be a hypocrite. but my son right now is playing spring hockey, right?

And it's not,

but again, but my winter, but my winter life is not a crazy,

like our winter life is a normal, like a, like a, like a muted hockey life. Like we, like, I

don't

think I've been to Detroit, Chicago, Dallas, or Vancouver this winter for hockey,

for his hockey.

I think that's where, for us as families, because I talk to a lot of families about this,

and it

really comes up with, there's a lot of back and forth. It's not a tournament team.

It's a bunch of

friends. It's once a week. And he's playing, right? And in my world, because he

plays lacrosse as

well, if he's not playing lacrosse and keeping up with his schoolwork, I need to fill

that time.

Like I got to make sure there's something going on there or else it's not a good

situation. So

again, but it's not in a car, it's not on a plane and it's not every weekend going to a

tournament.

It's more of the, it's almost like me replicating. like the pond hockey world.

Go and have fun. You're not a hypocrite, parents. There's nothing wrong if yourkids want to play

spring hockey. I'm just saying, there's never a definitive like, do not do it. Just look

at your

family and you say, what works? And then you have to see, does your kid need a

break?

You just need to see if they need a little bit of an offering. That's the key, Mike.

And for Karl's

point, too. That's why I said, if my kids ask me to play, which they have not done,

that's a

conversation. I think there's a lot of pressure on parents of, you've got to do spring

hockey. And

it's like, no, you don't. Play a different sport. Play an instrument. just do something

else for a

little bit yeah we give you permission for whatever our authority is exactly you

don't have to do

it if you don't want to yeah you can follow the kids lead right that's that's pretty

much what it

is follow follow their lead uh get them a pair of rollerblades and a ball let them play

outside too

just so it's a different look it it there is no one right way to do it you gotta listen to

the kid

and see what they're what they want to do Meet them where they're at. I love that

you summed that

10-minute segment up so beautifully there. Another thing I want to talk to you

about. So we did an

episode a year ago. It became one of our most popular episodes almost

immediately. The title of

that episode was The Underappreciated Defenseman. Mike actually came up with

this episode. Because

we had kind of had enough of, like, there's just no love for defense in youth

hockey, right? Now,

you had one of the most reliable NHL careers ever.

Shift by shift, I mean, you were just very dependable as a player, all right? I think

people

sometimes hear that. We talked about, like you said, it's not as loud and flashy,

but, man, there's

a lot of value in that, right? Can you talk about maybe what are some of the small

habits that made

you dependable, made coaches trust you, even when you're not Alex Ovechkin,

right? Like,

you're not the flashy player in that regard. And let's really talk to the parents and

the youth

athletes because there are a lot of underappreciated defensemen out there. Yeah,

there really are.it's a hard position to get players to want to play because we all love scoring goals

we all love

getting assists you love playing in the offensive zone and um and and to to sit

back at times and

just watch that happen or you know hopefully start the play so that someone else

can finish it um

it's just not that fun but like you said it is it is incredibly valuable um coaches love

it Yeah,

coaches do love it. And look, I think a lot of it is the kid themselves.

They just have something in their brain where they have that protective mentality

where that's what

they want to do. If you throw in a group of nine-year-olds, 10-year-olds, and you

let them just

have a scrimmage, you kind of see which ones gravitate towards staying back and

which ones want to

score the goals. And those are the ones you can start to kind of... foster that that

love for

defense and wanting to play a reliable style of game um what i really know now

that i'm that i'm

retired is i almost got too far into that when i was with the caps and with montreal

is um i was i

almost started turning into one dimensional right and i worked if i could go back

you know maybe

after the first few years with washington to continue working on my offensive side

of the game

because so like for for people listening um my the way it went for me is i was you

know the power

play guy in junior i was the guy at the point i was sometimes the bumper guy in the

middle i was

the bumper guy in the american league like i was a power play guy and then i get

to the caps and

all of a sudden i have mike green and john Karlson that are there on the power play

and obi plays

plays d on the power play i'm like okay there's no path forward on the power play

for me i need to

really make sure that my defensive game is is as solid as can be and so i started to

kind of get

away from working on some of those those offensive habits right and so i think

that is tough with

the with the youth player is you don't want also to be labeled a defenseman or

whatever it is early

on and then you stop doing all that you know the stick handling the shooting all

those things that

come along with it but I think you've got to really pay attention to what the kids aredoing on the

ice and the ones that seem to get it, you start to focus on it. And the things that I

love focusing

on with those players we've done the last couple of years is 100% using their stick,

one hand stick. I think that's such an important skill for these kids to learn how to

do,

you know, play with a stick on puck and then positioning. Oh my goodness. Like

watching players

skate around all over the place, following the puck and not. like sometimes just

being in a

position with your stick in the right lane is the best defense right it deters so many

things from

happening and uh and there needs to be just a little bit more focus on that and i

think the best

way to teach that is is have kids watch have kids watch hockey you know focus on

a player see watch

a you know watch a you know a jacob slavin play out there and see where he is on

the ice with his

stick And realize that, you know, it's just position. It's like playing squash.

You don't have to run all over the court to be good at it. You stand in the middle

and just be

there. So it sounds so easy. And I think it is. But you watch guys in the NHL that

can't play

defense. They have no idea where to go out there. So like I said, I think it's just a

long way to

say I think it's in some players and it is not in some players. And to really try to

focus on that

with the players that seem to get it. And that's a little result, too, right, of us as

coaches and

evaluators. Like, you know, it's very hard to see the kid that just waits out to play

and takes

ice. Like, our good friend Mike Weaver is the same type of, like, we've had these

conversations

with him a million times. Like, well, you don't look like you're doing anything out

there. He goes,

yeah, because I just take the ice. I give you the ice I want you to take, and I make it

boring.

Like, if you're a defenseman, you make it look boring out there. That's, that's what

your job is.

Right. And if you're not going to be the guy who's going to rush the puck with a

minute left in the

game and try to win the game, like everybody can't be Cal McCarr. And I think, you

know, and I

think that's where at the youth level though, it's so hard to get coaches toappreciate.

And that's why we had that episode, right. Is because it's so hard to get coaches

and parents to

appreciate how good you have to be to look boring. Like it's just like a good goalie,

right? A goalie that's Dominic Hasek, and he was great too, bad example. But a

goalie has to dive

around and jump around and make these great saves. And you're like, well, yeah,

but he's doing a

lot of work that a lot of other guys maybe doesn't have to do because they're just

in like the best

position they could ever be in. And I think that's like you're describing, like if I'm a

youth

hockey coach of a 10-year-old, it is hard to make, it's hard to equate that kid as

being a great

player. Because they don't look like the kid that's going to spin off the puck, drive

down the

boards, drive to the inside lane and get a shot on net. And we all value that player.

And I guess my question to you is, how can we get parents to understand that

that's great at 10 and

11 and 12. But at the end of the day, at 19 and 20 years old, somebody has to play

D.

And that's where the value really comes into play. Well, I would say that what

separates a lot of

players that play in the East Coast League and the American League to the ones

that play in the NHL

isn't always, it's not usually skill. Obviously, there is a bit of a level of skill that's

higher

in the NHL, but it's the brain. It's being able to play it. And I will say this,

and it sounds bad, but at the end of my career, when I was down playing a lot of

games in Laval, in

the american league like my preparation did not need to be anywhere near where it

was when i was in

the nhl because those a lot of those players you know some of the really good

young ones were were

really good but you could not think that you know what i mean like i'm i'm i'm

trying to i'm trying

to you know they'll say i'm trying to play chess while they're playing checkers so i

just know that

you know this is where the play is going to move to i'm going to already be here

ready to go i'm

gonna you know give you my triangle to pass through and take it away because i'm

thinking two steps

ahead and you're thinking one step right so it's trying to have your players um

think away from thepuck and play away from the puck and we try and we try and talk about that a lot

and it's hard i

mean it gets a little bit easier as you get older but um i'm working with a kid right

now who plays

high school hockey And it's like the number one thing I try and tell them is, is be

good away from

the pucks. It's going to save you so much pain, right? Instead of having a player

come down on you

full speed, you know, you're already in the right position because you've been

thinking, waiting

for this to happen. You know what I mean? Yeah, I love where we're going here,

Karl. I put a bunch

of notes down here that I want to talk about. I want to talk for a few minutes about

some

actionable items. We can talk to coaches and parents pay attention to on this one.

Hockey IQ, we've been saying this on the show since we started six years ago.

Hockey IQ is just

down. It's just not as emphasized as it used to be. There's more emphasis on skill

and showtime,

as I like to say, I think for the kids. And I think what happens with a lot of coaches

is they fall

into the, I call it the offensive trap, where you're really just focused on goal

scoring. And you

end up seeing a lot of nine, eight games, right? So this is what I want to discuss for

a few

minutes is some methodologies for coaches to adopt. to kind of curtail that and

i'm going to start

with a good one right is rewarding good defense and and helping your kids

understand like i just

had a game recently where um you know we won the game but the defense was

really exceptional from

this this elementary age team and i really went into that in the locker room it

wasn't just that we

won it was wow our defense was stellar tonight um and we were taking away space

we were taking away

passing lines and also explaining to kids And coaches, don't underestimate this in

a young D.

If a D is back and playing an angle or a gap really well, even if the player gets the

shot off,

that small little play is enough sometimes for the puck to miss the net or they're

not going to

make a good play. That needs to be recognized. And you need to talk about what

you just said,

Karl, like triangles and space and gap. And kids that are young can actuallyunderstand this more

than you think they can. You can teach an eight-year-old what gap control is.

You've got to do it

in an eight-year-old way. Don't get me wrong. But we should be teaching that.

Another thing I

wrote down here is we do a thing. I'm going to do this a lot more next season

called grit points.

Because the only points that show up on the score sheet are goals and assists and

maybe shots

against and saves if you're a goalie, if that's even accurate. There's not much for

defensive play.

So we created our own stats for great defensive plays. And the kids love it.

They love it. When you angle someone off, you get a point for that, like those little

things. So

Karam was interested in your thoughts on things we can do, especially in the youth

game. I agree

with you. It does get easier as you get older and kids have a little bit more acumen

for. you know

tactical stuff yeah but what can we do with those younger ages yeah i think that i

love the the

point system we believe it or not even use that in in the american league we used it

occasionally

in the nhl as well that was a way to measure you know if we were making you feel

smart now yeah

maybe struggling a little bit defensively and allowing too many chances we bring

that in for a few

games where you know they kept those stats and made sure everybody saw them

after games so i think

that is definitely a great thing i think i think like you said you need to praise those

those you

know little things uh that's that's probably the number one thing that i talk to the

kids about on

the bench you know kid has a great stick uh they close somebody off that's i i'm

all over that

right away i want to i want to see that i love when a player can recognize um

danger and then start

coming back early right don't wait for the puck to turn over uh make sure you try

and try and read

that ahead of time and then make sure you give them some praise for that too

right because it's you

know i i would love for this puck to turn over and go offense here and have an

opportunity to score

but you know sometimes we need to live to fight another day that's like we say

that so much in inhockey it's like just you know live to fight another day our chances will come so

Praising those

little victories right there, I think is great. Challenge your team, you know, before a

game,

say, you know, we do this on ours. It's like, we're going to have no odd man rushes.

So that way

people, the kids are ready for that. No, I mean, at 10U, it's sometimes no

breakaways,

right? Like we want to make sure there's no breakaways today instead of five. So

that's,

you know, those little challenges like that or have, you know.

challenge it with, I want to see five, five stick on pucks where you poke a puck

away from

somebody, not swipe a puck away from somebody, poke a puck away from

somebody. Very, very big

difference, especially as you get older, you swipe back players that have skill. It's

pretty much

game over. So I like those little baby milestones. I think that's a good, good thing

for coaches

and players to understand. I always say too, Mike, before you jump in, I always say

blue line

turnovers is one of mine too. I tell young coaches, if you can limit the blue line

turnovers,

you're going to change your whole team's game. Yeah, we call that the rocket

zone. That's the five

feet before the offensive zone and then the five feet to get out of the D zone. It

was actually

funny. He's a tough coach, the guy we had in LaValle, Joel Bouchard, but I loved

him.

The first meeting that I had there, our video session, They had a player,

he was showing a player from another team coming into the defensive zone. He's

right at the blue

line. And then he stopped the video and he gets on the whiteboard and he draws

this little

triangle. And he just says to the one guy, he's like, Lurie, what happens here?

And Lurie just goes, kill. And Joel destroys this dry erase marker,

pushing so hard. He's like, kill, kill. Nobody gets in our zone. This is the rocket

zone.

We protect this with our life. And I'm just like. Yeah, I mean, with that much energy

going into

it, the players will remember it. But it is very, very true. Those blue lines,

they are crucial at every level of the game. I will say, too, I have seen –

sorry, Mike. At the pro level, like I'll say semi-pro level because you're on here,

Karl, but at the semi-pro level, I mean, if you watch a team and they're doing 15,20 blue line turnovers a game, they're a losing team. It's almost a guarantee. Yeah.

You want to

sit on the bench, turn the fuck over at the blue line. Yeah. Listen, I just watched an

NHL game.

It was eight to seven the other day. So I like, you know, maybe, maybe we got to

talk to, we got to

get in that locker room. But I think, you know, to Karl, to your point though, like this

is why, I

mean, this is really why it's so great that in, in, in like in these regions that are, that

have

like a super compile of, of ex pro hockey players. It's so great to have.

you guys in the mix with the coaches, because the things that you're talking about

and the nuances

of the game, I don't think they get picked up by a normal, just everyday hockey

fan.

They just don't like even a, even a dad coach or a, or somebody that's been

coaching kids,

those kinds of things. Like, I don't think they're appreciated, nor do they get

picked up like the

verbiage you're using. And I wish, I hope that the people listening right now, and

we have a lot of

coaches that listen like those. That's the game. Like, that's the nuances of the

game.

It's not just like, you know, something like, oh, that's a great pass. Yeah, but what

did you do

with all those other aspects of that piece that led to that? Or there's a great

defensive play,

but just like to your point, like knowing to put your stick in an area on the puck and

not reach

and swipe, that is the difference between a real defenseman and not a

defenseman.

Like, that's the difference. And it's that little nuance. And I think what happens at

the youth

hockey level is the kid that swipes, because the level may not be that high, he

might be successful

there. And it might result in something positive. But it's a negative thing that

happened.

I get that all the time when we see goals get scored. It's great that the goal was

scored, but the

17 things that happened? really aren't hockey plays. Like, don't even look. They

were so horrible.

Like, the fact that we scored, all the kids were like, oh, I'm getting rewarded for

this goal. But

you could, like, I think you as an ex-player and now as a coach, you know, thoselittle nuances, I

think, could really go underappreciated about how important they are to hear in a

player's ear in

real time because that is the game of hockey. Like, ultimately, those are the things

that's going

to separate the mediocre player from the great player. Yeah. I want to...

i think you know going back to what we said about you know the the iq is maybe

leaving the game and

i there's definitely tons of coaches out there who did not play at a high level but

are just very

smart hockey people they get the game they see they know what they're talking

about um and i don't

know if it's a a usa hockey and a hockey canada thing now where there's so much

emphasis on skill

development and you want the kids to have fun and you don't you don't want to

bore them and this

and that um but think we're starting to shy away from teaching a little bit of the x's

and o's is

because of that it's like i agree you know let's let's find a way just to stick handle

through

everybody skate through everybody um you know the fact that you can't clear the

clear the puck down

the ice on a penalty kill anymore and you have to try and stick handle out of the

zone like i think

that ends up creating some bad habits you know what i mean i'd rather i would

agree with you Karl

you know like time of game time and place like when can you when can you be

high risk versus when

do you just have to get the puck out of the zone right luke shen said it said it best

to me about

going glass and out it's not always the right play but it's never the wrong play right

it's

sometimes you just have to be a little bit safer and so i think don't don't be afraid

to teach some

of the x's and o's of the game um because it goes against what you're being told

to teach right

like let's let's start learning how do we how do we think the game at this young

age how are we

going to Beat a team that has a stud on it that you need to find a way to shut

down.

Right. Like, let's let's start having the kids understand. Yeah. And I think that

philosophy of you

got to keep moving all the time. Move, move, move, move, move. Get go, go, go,

go, go. A lot like alot. And I again, I'm a big I'm a big fan of it, obviously. But what doesn't what we

don't

emphasize, though, is how much work has to go off the ice because our kids don't.

Like, these kids

aren't watching hockey games. Like, I watched hockey games. I would sit down

and watch. Even today,

I watch a whole hockey game. And I'm like, holy crap, look at that. Look what

happened there. But I

don't think kids, because they're only seeing the eight-second snippet of

somebody going between

somebody's legs and roofing the puck. They're not watching the game. And I

think, you know,

so those programs that are doing those things, even at young ages, you know,

grabbing the kids and

doing 20 minutes of video or sharing clips that aren't just highlights, that they're

the

fundamental clips like you're talking about. Like if you're in the rocket zone, I want

to see 10

seconds of clips of every time a kid left and came in and left and came in. And that

monotony and

that boredom of the game. really is what ends up being the successful piece.

Lee says it all the time about the game, right? And when we talk about kids, the

game is based off

of you capitalizing somebody else's mistakes. So if we can limit all these mistakes,

we will

eventually win the game. And I think that's where coaches, and I would agree,

in the education piece, the IQ formula gets lost.

Because it's not emphasized that everything doesn't have to happen on the sheet

of ice.

And we have to do a better job of teaching off the sheet to get these other things

taught.

And again, in our area where you are too, it's a hard thing to do because it's just

people,

it's just time. It's the ability to get people to come to your practices and your rank

and your

training more and for longer times during that night. practice time yeah yeah it's

it's tough you

hear the you hear the line all the time after games and interviews from players and

coaches that

you know we tonight we beat ourselves right because all those little mistakes that

we made tonight

instead of just keeping it simple. So, yeah, I mean, it's hard to find the exact

perfect answer,

but, you know, these are definitely some things that I think we can all work on.Well,

I'll tell you one thing we do with the kids is, you know, I say this, teach choice. I tell

that to

the coaches, teach choices. You made that great reference to Luke Shen. Off the

glass and out.

It's never a bad decision. I tell my kids all the time, look, there's typically three

good plays

and three bad plays for every single situation. I joke, you know, pick one of the

good ones, right?

You can pick the least good play. It's still a good play. And when we talk to the

kids, especially

at practice in the locker room, we were talking about blue line turnovers, right?

We'll talk about

it. I'll say, what are your options here? I don't tell them what to do. Tell me some

options that

you have here. And they'll tell you. Right. And, you know, here's the thing. When

they tell you

that they'll commit it to their memory at that point, if you just tell them you're

going to get a

lot of nods and that blank stare. But like every situation in the game is there's

there's choices.

Again, we don't have I joke about this all the time. We don't have a stat like

baseball for an

error. Right. We kept that. Everybody would have about 20 a game. Yeah. Right. So

so teach choice.

Right. Like you got it. That's where the creativity and the hockey IQ comes in.

Yeah. Agreed.

I think. i mean i'm thinking to back to some plays right now from from uh from

people i've played

with and i guess everyone needs to remember the things i'm saying are coming

from a very defensive

mindset versus someone who was willing to take take a risk um but i i like what you

said lee right

like know what your choices are if you're a defenseman and you want to try and

You know,

I hate saying it even toe drag a player at the blue line so that you can find find the

lane or get

some more space. You need to understand that, you know, the risk here is

breakaway or partial

breakaway. Right. So knowing that if this turns over, you know, my reaction needs

to be,

you know, three hard strides straight back to the net, try and figure it out from

there. Like just

just knowing. what the risks are is very, very important for the kids. That's thedifference

between checkers and chess to me, is knowing two or three moves that could be

happening versus,

okay, there's just one. Right, and it's easy to say. We watched one of the most

high-profile games

of the century in USA, Canada, and we see the best player in the world make a

decision.

that afterwards everyone would have said, oh, well, that was the wrong decision.

But in the moment,

if Calicar gets that puck, it's the best decision ever made. It's the other way

around.

And I think, Karl, like on your side, like on my side, I would have rather seen a

defensive posture

and wait it out. But that's the nature of the beast, right? You have players at this

level,

and as great as you guys are going on the ice and playing. It's a risk-reward.

You're weighing. In one bounce, that's a win. In the other bounce,

it's a loss. And, you know, it's easy to sit back and armchair quarterback that. But I

think, you

know, in the moment, you are driven. And, again, you're driven by I'm going to get

the puck and I'm

going to win. And I think that's where it gets hard for us as youth coaches because

that game

actually meant something. where your 10-year-old game means nothing. So if they

did that every

single time and made a mistake, it's really not affecting the rest of their life. It

doesn't affect

their legacy. Nobody's ever going to remember. That live barn video is going to

disappear in 40

days. Nobody cares. In this other stage, people do care. And I think that's where

we all get caught

up thinking, well, every weekend is not the Olympics. It's the time to make those

mistakes.

Right. And I think this is another thing you can come back to as a coach when you

have not as

important of a game is go period by period. You can have a game plan where it's

like,

look, period one, we are full go. We do that all the time. We're pressuring 2-1-2

right off every

single faceoff. It's D down the wall. Let's go this first period where we are full on

pressure.

and and and just storm them as much as we can and then let's try a period where

we are we are

almost like a trap you know where we just try and play as stout defensively as wepossibly can and

then you can mix and match and then not only are the kids understanding you

know the two different

styles of play but you're throwing completely different looks at a team as well

where they're like

you know this these d are thinking holy smokes i'm gonna have hard four check

and then maybe they

throw a few pucks away i mean this is more game planning as you get it as you get

older, but I

think it's good for the players to be able to kind of turn, you know, switch on the fly

to, all

right, I had this mentality of, of full on pressure. Now I'm going to, now I'm going to

play full

on D. So it's just things to play with. And the way, the reason I love that too, I

mean, I love

that philosophy and that methodology is because, you know, when that player

goes to their next

team, they're going to have all those tools in the toolbox of knowing all those

different ways.

Those players are going to have those tools in the toolbox knowing that the game

is situational.

We talk about it all the time with all my groups that I work with. Situational hockey

is really the

differentiator between just going and playing hockey. Every time you look at the

clock and every

time you look at the lines and every time you look at what the advantages in a

team,

those are situations that changes the game. 60 minutes of hockey.

It's a situational game. I think what you're saying is like, oh, wow, we're

recognizing that they

have jittery defensemen and guys that want to tough the puck up. Let's go. Just

go at them. Don't

worry about it. They're not going to make a good pass anyway. We're going to

force them to make the

mistakes that we know they're going to make. And I think that's really where,

listen, that's where

real coaching comes in because now you get to coach. You're actually saying, hey,

guys, can you

comprehend this system and this idea, and then can you implement it? Now you're

like,

okay, now we're coaching. Now we're playing hockey.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, we said at the top of the episode, Karl's got to get to a

practice.

So, Karl, I'm going to ask you one more question here. Karl is going to join us onthe ride to the

rink, so make sure your kids listen to that. But you're on here because you're going

to be putting

that Canadian jersey on once again here in a foreign country, right, in Scotland.

You're heading to Scotland for the Ice Hockey Cup. Again, for those of you

listening, it's a USA

versus Canada series featuring a lot of NHL players. For the families who might not

know about it,

what's making this special for you? And I got to ask this after being, you know,

captain Canada a

few times early in your career, what is putting that maple leaf on mean again? Well,

you know what? It's funny because if you would have asked me that like a month

ago, I would have

just said, Oh, it's just fun to play some. semi-competitive hockey.

And then after the Olympics, I'm like, well, now it's business.

Are you laying the gauntlet out right now here on this show? Well, I'm not going to

stay off the

ice all the way leading up to it. I'm going to get on the ice and I'm going to get in

the gym a

little bit. I want to make sure my back can hold up for three hockey games.

I think the main, so two things. One is, you know, you get the opportunity to play

with some former

teammates, players you played against. You know, being in the dressing room and

hanging around the

team is the thing that I think everybody misses the most. So getting that

opportunity, I really

wanted to do it. But it also touches on something that is really important to me.

It's part of the reason why we moved back. the dc area is to to help grow the game

right like this

you know northern virginia maryland dc it's not your typical hockey market and i

there's not a ton

of former pros that live in the area so i wanted to be able to help with that and to

get to go to

scotland where you know there is some pro hockey there but i don't think it's uh

it's it's probably

not the top maybe not even top 10 sports that people would think about when they

think of of that

part of the world so um have an opportunity to go there and play in some in front

of some fans and

hopefully build a little bit of hype and see some kids there um and just you know

hopefully get

them excited about wanting to play and potentially playing in it for their country at

some point

that's That's what I'm looking forward to a lot. So I'm pumped about it. I loveScotland, too.

So it's good all around. Scotland's awesome. And you know it, Karl. There's some

rabid hockey fans

over there. It might not be the top five sports or top ten sports, but the hockey

fans over there

are hockey fans like anywhere else. And, yeah, listen, Ryan Ball, who's putting this

together, is

going to love that promo you just cut about making this personal.

We'll enjoy that one. I don't know if they have live barn in Scotland or something

like that.

People might want to end up buying broadcast rights to this now.

So definitely want to get your live barn going. It should be great. You never know

what might

happen when Milan's on the ice.

Karl, we really appreciate you giving us some time today and we're wishing you the

best over it.

Well, first off, I wish you the best in the gym with your back. Yes. And then we'll

wish you the

best over there in Scotland as well. And I want to, I want to end this just by saying

thank you for

all you're doing. you have done for the game, how you're growing the game now. I

don't think

especially, you know, former NHL players get enough credit for the

ambassadorship that you all do

after you're done playing. I mean, it really isn't pay-forward time. And I'll say this

too, that

obviously being in America, one of our biggest audiences is Toronto, but the

rivalry,

which has only been wonderful and at a boil for years, is even more now. And this

game is growing

after the last Olympics. So thank you for all you do in the game. Yeah, I appreciate

what you guys

are doing as well. This is a huge market. A lot of people have lots of questions

about the game too

that are learning it and getting excited about it. And we're all trying to figure it out.

Even me going through it now, it's way different than it was when I did it. So I

appreciate what

you guys are doing as well and bringing me on. It's fun to talk about. No, thanks,

brother. Yeah,

it takes a village. That's what we always say. All right. That's going to do it for this

edition of

Our Kids Play Hockey. Remember, if you have a question, email us, team at

ourkidsplayhockey.com,

or use the link accompanying the episode in the description. Let us know yourname, where you're

from. You can always ask questions. We love reading them on the air. But for Karl

Osner, Mike

Bonelli, I'm Lee Elias. We'll see you on the next Our Kids Play Hockey. Take care.

We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and

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