Habits of Hockey: Building Character, Discipline & Elite Development With Founder Jimmy Law

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. It's Lee Elias joined by Michael Bonelli. And I always love to say, Christie Casciano-Burns is on assignment today, anchoring the news in Syracuse, New York, because as we've said, she moonlights as a news anchor. Apparently, that's the primary thing. That's what we're being told. So we'll have to get through. But our guest today is especially someone who spent his career shaping both the player and the person behind the jersey. That is obviously something we love to talk about. on the show. Jimmy Law is here and he is the director of sports performance at TPH Academy, a blended academic and hockey development environment designed to help student athletes reach their full potential on and off the ice. Kind of a dream scenario for your kids. We'll get into that. He's also the founder of Habits of Hockey, a mindset-based training platform built around developing Strong personal habits like discipline, leadership, and resilience, all words we love here. And that goes far beyond skating and shooting, as we always try and develop a full person here on Our Kids Play Hockey. He's a great guest for that. Jimmy's work has helped guide hundreds of players, parents, and coaches, just happens to be our audience as well, to think differently about what true development means. And today we're diving into that philosophy. This is one of those episodes, folks, that will have a lot of gold for you and your family. Jimmy, welcome to Our Kids Play Hockey. Thank you. Thanks for that great introduction. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks. But we pride ourselves on our intros. We do the research. We try and make sure that we do it because the audience wants to know who we're talking to. And you deserve it. All the people that come on as guests have had distinguished lives in the game. And we really do like to go out of our way to make sure that people know that. But here's one thing we do need to do, Jimmy. But before we get into the stuff I talked about in the intro and the TPH Academy Habits of Hockey, let's just talk with your story. Right. How did you first get into hockey? You know, how did you get to the world of the player and character development? Give us the Jimmy Law origin story. Sure. Well, I was a first generation hockey player. Parents knew absolutely nothing about hockey. My next door neighbor, I think I was like four, as my mom says, three or four, gave me a hockey stick. And, you know, we were just playing in the driveway, happened to be a lefty. So I became a lefty from that point on. Um, and, uh, my, my dad had a big deck, so, uh, he loves to tell the story of, I was hitting the hockey ball around and I would hit the hockey ball off the deck and he would always have to run downstairs, go and grab it. And I would be dying laughing on top. So, uh, I think from a young age, uh, you know, I just, I just loved hockey and, um, started out playing roller hockey at ice line, uh, where I currently work and, uh, You know, roller hockey, I think, is a great intro for ice hockey. It's it's a lot less expensive, number one. But you get to learn the game and it's fast. It's fast moving. It's a really develop your your stick handling. And so I had some great years starting out playing roller hockey and it overlooks an ice rink. And so. I think a part of me was always like, hey, like, when can I when can I transition? When can I get out there on the ice? And so I was probably about eight and convinced my parents to get me in the in-house league, which I don't even think in-house leagues exist anymore. If I'm not mistaken. We'll talk about that. They're few and far between. They're coming back. But yeah, I mean, you know, I played in-house and then B and then A team and then AA and AAA high school. And so, you know, just kind of a linear path. I really enjoyed playing hockey and, you know, I love the compete aspect of it. I love football. Learning things, discipline, teamwork, camaraderie, all those things that I think so much of your listeners and so many hockey players out there love the game for. Those same things really impacted the way that I loved the game growing up. So let me ask something, you know, as far as like your development journey, right. And you're, and you're getting into player development, character development, obviously you've lived this, like, so you probably had a lot of like, you know, real life experiences, obviously. I mean, you're like, as Lee's introduction stated, you know, you've been, you've been in a lot of different places and you probably had a lot of great mentors. But where do you realize that like, you know, in player development and your own development journey, you know, where have you found or where did you discover that it's more than just hockey skills? Like developing as a hockey player, it's just like, okay, playing ball hockey in the backyard or playing on the field, you know, where, where is that development in hockey kind of mesh? Yeah. Uh, well, I think, um, I was with the Pittsburgh Penguins elite program for three years. That was kind of like my second job out of college. And in that environment, there's elite level players. There's guys from that program that have gone to the NHL that are in the NHL right now. Um, and so in that environment, you know, we are working with upwards of like two hundred fifty three hundred players throughout the week. Um, looking at like eight you all the way up to eighteen you girls and boys. They have their Excel hockey program, Excel Hockey Academy, which is pretty incredible. It's a hundred high school players that attend the local high school or local high school and then. They get to train and play after school. But, you know, when you're in that environment, you get to see so many different personalities, so many different ages and, you know, abilities and how they interact with each other. And, you know, one story, I'm not going to name his name, but he's he's currently drafted to the Sharks. I think this was his sixth year and and he was getting caught up in like, you know, the stupid stuff in a training session when, you know, you should be focusing on what you're doing, your reps, you know, putting intention into everything. And, you know, he kept getting in trouble, kept getting pulled by some of the kids that, you know, they weren't at his ability level. And it got to a point where like, I'm like, Hey, like, let's stick around after the session. Like, I just want to have a quick little chat. And it became like, Buddy, like, your potential is very high. And so you need to understand that this little stuff that you're getting involved into is actually hurting your development. Like, it's hurting your performance. You're not doing the best that you can every day. And you're getting sucked down by some of these guys. You know, they might not play college hockey at any level. And you have the ability, you know... You're talking about USHL draft pick. You know, you have the ability to really do something with hockey if you love the sport. And so I think it's time for you to start maturing a little bit and doing the deep focus on more of the details. And at that point, like that's the player development that I like to see is like when when you notice the guys doing the little things, staying dialed in with that. And so that that was the one moment I would say. I can point back to. I think Lee will, he can probably refresh my memory. Cause I can't remember all these people we speak to all the time, but I mean, it's such a familiar story that we hear from development people that, you know, be, be in, like be in the moment that you're in. Like, like, like I think so many kids get caught up, like if they're at a shooting class or skating or in the weight room and they're with younger kids and kids, like, like just you're competing against you. Like, don't worry about like, if you're doing a power skating class, It doesn't matter if every single kid on the ice is a might and you're eighteen. The skills that you're working on are your skills. And I think it's really hard for an athlete to kind of turn that on. You know, Lee, you probably I forget who it was, but we just literally just spoke to somebody like I was on the ice and there was all these kids out here that I was like a thousand times better than. And I just focused on me and I didn't worry about them. And, you know, I think that's a but tell me if I'm wrong, but the kids you were with, that's hard, right? That's hard for kids to do. Yeah, yeah, they're with each other so often and it becomes like a social environment sometimes when I think we need to separate like, hey, That's for the locker room. You know, that's for before and after the game. You know, not too far ahead, but like when you're in the gym, like be in the gym, be present, focus on what you need to get done, you know, challenge yourself every day and you're going to get better. And then afterwards, you know, you, you bullshit around and hang out with your guys. Like that's the time when you can have that, that extra, you know, social aspect of it. But when you're on the ice, when you're in the gym, be in the gym, be present. Like you said, Mike. I love that we're talking about being present and all this. I always like to bring this up too. We always look at hockey talent. I mean, like the physical talent is this rare phenomenon of this kid's got all the tools to make it. And the amount of players I've seen that have that skill set that don't make it would shock the listeners. It's a majority of them. I don't know how else to say it. I mean, they'll get far. Don't get me wrong. You can get far on talent, but you can't get all the way because the truth is this. The person has to be just as talented as a person as they do as a player for the most part. And it's funny you talk about a sixteen-year-old because I think, Jimmy, something we don't talk about enough as coaches and as parents is a sixteen-year-old is sixteen. Yeah. And they have sixteen year old problems and and they're going to have sixteen year old reactions. And I always love to say it on the show, you know, because we'll get this. How many times am I going to have to tell this kid this thing? And I say probably five to six hundred times. And I'm not exaggerating that number to you people. I said I said that to every twenty five year old on my staff right now. Right. The funny thing, Mike, the funny thing, too, is like, let's be honest with adults. It's not like we tell adults something one time and they do it either. Right. This is something that's my wife. Right. Right. Did you get to fix that thing yet, Mike? Anyway, I think there's a level of patience that comes with building the person. And here's the other thing, Jimmy, I'll say this to kind of reverse engineering the conversation a little bit. there have been young athletes that are building talent, but they have the maturity built up. And I look at those kids and I'm like, that kid's likely to do something now. And here's the thing. I'm not just talking about hockey, right? Like that kid's going to be successful at something. All right. And, and as a coach, obviously like we should always be thinking that way of, oh, you're going to do great at something. But it, in my experience, Jimmy, you talk about your experience. If those two things are not building congruently, then, it's you're probably not going to go as far as you want. All right. I'm gonna say it again. Talent can take you to a, to a place. But I'm going to say what I said a minute ago. The amount of talent I have seen not succeed in hockey is staggering. And it's because of the maturity piece. Yeah. Yeah. And there is so many cases that I've experienced over the last ten years being around it. You know, there's players that were rated, oh, the best nine-year-old in the country. And then you look at him at sixteen, seventeen years old, like he's not even playing AAA hockey. Right. And then, you know, you got the flip side where a kid, hey, maybe he didn't get private lessons at six a.m. before school. And maybe his dad didn't didn't play hockey. You know, they're just learning along the way. But he's got incredible work ethic. You know, he he's a good character kid. Just like we said, he stays present in the moment when he needs to be. And then, you His development, it's limitless at that point. You're going to see those kids get to the highest. Those kids, they'll play at the highest level that their talent will take them. Whatever that may be, they're going to continue to play as long as they want to play. And be a pro at whatever they want to be a pro at. Yeah. I'll say this too. We're talking about present moment awareness and that's not going to be the, obviously the theme of the episode, but I tell every listener, every time we bring it up, this is something you should dive into as a coach. If you're a player, you should dive into it. If you're a human being, you should dive into it. There is plenty of resources out there about how to be present, to live in the present moment. It is an absolute key to success and it's free. It's really not hard. If you can just channel a little bit of effort into it, it's not hard to do that. And when you understand that it's a continuous practice, you can't necessarily almost impossible to master it, but it's good to work on it. Things will change. And, you know, I wanted to bring this up to you, Jimmy. It's funny that we're from the same area, about ten years apart. Very similar origin stories, very similar locations. Yeah. I love that you brought up just playing roller hockey. You know, when I was growing up, it was the same thing. Hockey was booming in the area. And when you drove down a street where I'm from, you'd see basketball hoops and hockey nets. And we all started on the street right in that rec area or that free play area. Mike and I joked earlier about the rec leagues coming back because we know there's some rec leagues that have spawned because of the show, which blows our mind. We're going to have some of those people on. That's awesome. It is. It is really cool. That creative free play is so important. Or just not having the pressure of AAA elite professional scouting, showcasing, whatever. Now, I do want to talk about this. You started in rec. And now you're at TPH Academy. So I want to explain real quick to the audience. what tph academy is mike i know you do something similar like like let's explain what an academic hockey environment is because again if i was if i was and someone said hey look there's a school you can do hockey. I would have, I would have told my parents, you know, peace out. I'm going to this place that didn't exist when I was growing up. Go ahead, Mike. And then like, I want to get, well, I was going to say too, is like, this is a chance to really talk about, like when you talk about present moment, but there is the other side that you have to think about the steps that you have to take for development. Right. And I think an Academy model, and a TPH model and a two or three sports group model, but any of these models that, that we, that we look at, um, you know, there is the long-term development of the athlete aspect where you're not in the moment, but you have to be able to say, okay, I, I have a, I have a goal. My parents have a goal for me. I have the means and I have the motivation to put myself into a unique environment because it is unique. Um, It's a high-performance environment, and anything you can give. You can give everything you do. Just let's bring it out here now, and I'll take some notes. I'm going to say one more thing to preface this, just on our conversation here, and then, Jimmy, it's all yours, is that Mike's making a great point, and this is what I always say to my athletes. I want you to have big, lofty goals, but know that the work to accomplish those goals takes place in the now, like right now. right? So you can't get lost in the future. You can't get lost in the past. You can reflect and you can look forward, but the work takes place right now. And that's how I, I keep my, my guys and my girls focused. Like do not get too far ahead. It doesn't exist. It's not real. So anyway, now that we've gone to the psychological TPH hockey, go ahead, Jimmy, tell us a little bit about the Academy. All right. Well, um, I'll try to unfold this as best I can. I'm probably going to miss something along the way. But so just to start out, TPH Academy is a blended learning environment. It's study, train, and play. And so that's kind of the model that we operate on. Study being first. Academics are first. It's a priority of TPH Academy and their core values. Train. You're on the ice four days a week. You're in the gym five days a week. So you have plenty of opportunities of puck touches, plenty of opportunities to do the little stuff that you don't get to work on. throughout the week with a traditional club hockey team or high school hockey team. And then play, right? Like you have the opportunity to play on the weekends. There's structured flexibility. I know in this world of AAA hockey, like, kids are missing so much school, so much school. And it's hard, you know, like schools don't want to hear about it anymore. They don't want to hear that, you know, Johnny's got to leave Thursday again to go to Minnesota to play another tournament. Like, and there's a limit of, I don't know how many days it is, but there's a limit. And I'm guarantee there's kids out there that are going over that limit. And so TPH allows student athletes to have that flexibility of doing your work from an online platform. It's all accredited, right? It's not, it's not like, you know, they're just sitting on their, on the computer. Um, not like division one college in the nineties is what you're saying. Exactly. Yeah. We're taking sewing today. Go ahead. I'm just kidding. Yeah. So, um, um, So like a typical day for a student athlete here, they they get to the classroom. They have an hour of schoolwork because studies have shown that your brain is turned on the most in the morning. So, you know, they have an hour of schoolwork before they come upstairs to me for a dynamic warm up at nine thirty. There's two groups. There's like basically an older group. Older group, younger group, high school, middle school. It changes daily, but generally that's what it is. And they're either in the gym for an hour or they're on the ice for an hour and then they flip flop. And then they're back to the classroom from twelve thirty, eat lunch, and then their day is over at four o'clock. And so in that day, you know, it changes, changes Monday through Friday. But from my perspective, from the training perspective, we're able to accomplish way more than just lifting. You know, we're able to do that. The little stuff, the movement, the the. mobility, that's super important. The recovery, uh, you know, we have speed days, we have power days, we have deload days. Uh, we have days where we just talk about nutrition and we just slow it down. Uh, it's a long season and these kids, um, in our academy and everywhere, they have a lot of stress. They are balancing a lot in their life and It's always one thing to the next, one thing to the next. They never really get a chance to slow down and just kind of be a kid a little bit. And we have Riley Cote on our staff who has been incredible for us. You know, older older guys, people older than me that we know Riley Cote, like he was an enforcer. He'd go out there and kick the crap out of people. But he's really reinvented himself and gotten really into yoga and mindfulness. And he's in there every Thursday working with our kids. And it's it's been awesome. You know, they do breathing exercises regularly. Just stuff to calm the mind. Like I said, take a little bit, take an hour of your day and just be with yourself. Again, be present. That keeps coming up. And then our on-ice staff is fantastic. We have junior flyer coaches. We have Matt Duran. He's our head of hockey. And then we have our director. We have head of academics. And so it's a very structured team. Our location, every location is different, but they all have the same basic structure. And I think that really sets up the athlete to not just be a great hockey player, not just be very smart, not just be an athlete in the gym, but kind of you get all three pieces, a lot of character development. And it's a small environment. It's different than high school. You're not one of a number. We know a lot about each of our athletes and we can individualize our program to fit their best needs. And so I think overall, the environment of TPH Academy and a lot of these higher end academies, I think it's a good environment for players if it's a right fit for them to develop. You know, we get to see um in an academy model right it's not like in a classroom model and you're a high school coach and you see your kids for an hour on a tuesday night right and you're trying to develop them or you're trying to cram in like like a training regimen two nights a week at a gym up in the up in the uh you know, up at the rink and without any, like, you don't, you have no idea. Oh my God. Like that kid had a tough day playing kickball for an hour and a half. Like you, you can't regulate all that as an athlete. Like, so in the Academy model, like you're able to, you know, basically structure that day. And I think I'd really like to dig in more about what you're saying about the, the actual daily schedule. Like, you know, okay, we got a big tournament coming up. They're leaving on a Friday. We're probably not doing leg day on Thursday night, or we're not like, pounding the crap out of the kids and power skating on a Friday morning or like in other environments outside of this academy type model, right? You don't have the ability to help the athlete train properly, get the right loads, get the right rest, the right academic time because i mean you know one of the things i'd like to ask you is like you see your athletes like what kind of athlete thrives do you feel because you see you see the failures too right kids that come in like this kid's just not he's failing here because he's not she or he is not ready for this type of environment but what kind of athletes do you see that come in and say and they don't have to be elite hockey players i'm just talking about the athlete the student athlete like what do you feel are the attributes of those kids that succeed Yeah. So this is our second year now. So not a ton of research on this or experience. But what I see today is we kind of have two statuses of student athletes in our academy. We have the AAA players who they want to do anything possible to get to the next level. And so that's why they're in a hockey academy. They can develop their skills on ice, off ice, training while receiving good academics. And then we have the other side of things where a brick and mortar school maybe just didn't fit that person, that child. You know, he's not maybe the most talented player in the world, but he wants to be in an environment that he can succeed in, that he can have fun in while still playing the sport. He can grow and develop just like everyone else and be around like minded individuals and so I think regardless of what status or tier you're in, the person that succeeds in an environment like we have, they're motivated. You know, they're committed. They want to do the work because it's a grind. Right. Like showing up to school every day and getting on the ice and getting in the gym and doing your academics like. It's a grind. And so those types of student athletes that are committed and motivated, those tend to succeed faster. most and they're willing to embrace challenges they're willing to step out of their comfort zone um yeah and and they want to be successful i mean do you think it's unique though too that you because you're so um embedded with the athletes like you can really be like hey listen this kid he really shouldn't work out today like like me and or you know we're we're in a traditional brick and mortar And I think a lot of this came out in COVID, right? Like all of a sudden kids, people are like, oh my God, my son or daughter, she's thriving in this other environment because they can sit down and do math and then they could maybe go back to it later on in the afternoon and they could go outside and play or work out or shoot or do stuff. So it almost like it exposed a lot of people to this other form of learning that where a self-motivated kid, a kid that says, I want to get better, can just go and go to the shooting room or go to the weight room or, you know, go to the video room and not be restricted on a lot of these other time constraints that a traditional model might offer you. But I think in your case, like you get to see the kids and go, okay, this person can't be doing what we're doing today. We need to put them in a more functional movement space. And you can help them at that where where maybe if I'm that coach on Thursday night and my kids come to play for me, I have no idea what they're like physical abilities are at that point. I'm just driving them. And I think it's really an important aspect of the academy model that you get to really like individualize an athlete's training and protect them from themselves almost. Yes. Yes. We have thirty eight student athletes and all thirty eight of them are on different schedules. Right. The only time we get to see them is four to eight or eight to four. So we don't know what they're doing afterwards. They all have different schedules on the weekends. And, you know, some of our a lot of our athletes actually, I'd say about fifty percent of them are junior flyers. They still get training, team training upstairs in the gym later on with me. And so you're constantly balancing. Hey, what's What's their weekend like? You know, can we go? Can we do they have an off weekend? Like, can we hit it hard or are they traveling Thursday and they're playing till Monday? Like, let's tone it back. And so we're always communicating with our staff what's best, where the individuals are at. You know, I think thirty eight is a fairly manageable number where you can really you can keep an eye on thirty eight and kind of get a good feel of where they're at. Um, so I think in that regard, it's, it's, it's awesome. Like you said, uh, kids will come up. Hey coach, like, can I get a core workout? Like I'm done my schoolwork. Yeah, sure. Like, Hey coach, like I want to do a little extra conditioning. Like I felt like I was a little tight. Yeah, sure. Like anything you want. It's here. Like, just ask, you know, and that's what we keep we keep pushing for our student athletes is like, ask for more. We are here for you. Ask for more. You want to shoot? Go ahead. We have a shooting room like you like you want to get on the ice later. We can do a three thirty slot like the flexibility is incredible. And basically whatever these athletes want, as long as they ask, you know, they can get it. Well, I want to talk about that for a second, because look, we've always said on the show, there's kind of two versions of our audience. There's like the fourteen you and down audience, twelve you and down audience. There's some crossover there. And then there's the, you know, through you, twenty audience, which is some older kids, different conversations at both age groups. Right. You know, when you're in the younger half, it's I mean, it's development for all of it. But you have to focus on development, focus on your core skills. When you get older, it's college and juniors and pro. And what am I doing here? What am I doing there? A really big theme across successful athletes, Jimmy, is what you just said, asking, asking for more, asking to be taught, asking for more work. All right. I find a lot of kids are oftentimes worried to ask because in a way, at least from a child's mind, it's, oh, I'm telling them I'm failing at something. The sooner you're a kid, or kids if you're listening, the sooner you can ask for help. Coaches want to coach. I want you to ask me for help. There's nothing that makes me happier no matter what age I'm coaching. And I mean this, whether it's a national team or a U-Ten team, nothing makes me feel better when a player says, can you help me with X, Y, and Z, whether it's whiteboard or off ice or on ice. Coaches want to coach. Yes. Please ask. Please ask your coaches. Right. And I'll tell you this, parents, if your kid goes to a coach and says, hey, listen, I really need to work on my skating. And they go, yeah, I don't have time for that. Get out of there. Get a new coach. Yeah, like, like, like, I mean, because I'm in this environment. I mean, I've seen our academy coaches that are exhausted and they've been on the ice for five hours and they've been in the training room. They've been at the classroom. They've been doing shuttle runs. They've been, you know, at the dining hall and a student athlete will come up to him like, coach, I really am stuck on this power play. I don't really know where to be. I'll watch this guy go into the other room, go on a desk with the kid and geek out on the whiteboard for an hour and a half. And because the kid asked, cause he, cause coach, cause that's like, that's like, that's gold. You know, if you, if you could come to me and say, you know, I am not going to be tired anymore. I'm going to be able to find the energy to make sure that I can help you. And I think that's, you know, in Jimmy's environment, that's what's so great about it. Cause that kid can't do that sitting at home at the dining room table as easily as a kid that can say, Hey, I really like this coach. I've connected with this person in my ecosystem here. I'm going to ask a question. And then when you get that, you're going to ask another question. You're going to ask another question. And those are the kids that move on. I'm laughing guys, because here's the truth. If the three of us got paid overtime, we'd be able to buy our own rink with the amount of time we put it, but we love it. We love it. I love teaching. I love coaching. And look, Jamie, I'm sure you're the same way. I was very similar as a player. Like I was very curious. I wanted to learn. I wanted to work. I'm bringing this up and I'm going to be a little bit of a journalist here to both of you. Okay. Because you're saying that that's one of the separators to be You know, it kind of accepted into this academy is you have to have that curiosity. You have to have the work ethic. You have to have some level of talent. You have to have this right. You have to have a next level of desire. So I'm going to go a couple of places with this. OK, number one is I got to always remind the parents that is not something you can create in your kid. It is something you can cultivate. All right. If your kid has the desire, help them cultivate what that means. Right. If they don't. I'm sorry. You cannot put that in them. Right. You can't create that for them. All right. So so for the kids listening, if you're obsessed and I would say if you're listening to the show, you probably are. No, that's an asset. Now, I have to say this. OK, Jim, how many kids did you say you accept? Was it thirty seven? Uh, thirty eight. Thirty eight. Apologies. And Mike, what's what's your your size usually? We have we have just we have a little different model. So we're like one hundred and sixteen. It's a different it's a completely different model as far as like the way the kids go on. But it's the same. It's in the in the number. Right. In the daily interaction with a coach. Yeah. The ratio is the same. Sure. So so this is what I'm going to ask. And again, I'm being a little bit of a devil's advocate. What about the thirty ninth kid that doesn't make it? Or what about the parents out there that I know are listening saying, there's no way I can afford that, right? I want to make sure this, I'm not downplaying these academies in any way when I'm asking this question. I can't stress that enough. Parents, like if this is something you can do, like you do it, right? But the kid out there that doesn't have the means, the family doesn't have the means, but has the desire, right? Can we talk about that while this resource may not be available, this is where it comes down to the same habits, and we'll get into habits of hockey in a minute too, of desire. and asking questions and searching information and finding ways to practice, right? Jimmy, when I was growing up, it's not like ice time was just readily available to every kid. There was no academies. We had to find creative ways to practice, whether it was sheet metal on my driveway, shooting pucks off of that, or going to the playground to work out. Keeping in mind, again, when I was growing up, you know, plyometrics was like a brand new science. And now that's like ancient, right? So can we just talk about that for a minute about how, you know, this is a great resource, but the mindset is irregardless. Yeah. Well, to your first point, just this popped up in my head. This past week, there's two girls that are a part of Method Hockey. They don't go to TPH Academy. They're younger. They're probably like eleven or twelve. Method Hockey is a training kind of environment, too. Yeah. Method Hockey is our four to nine o'clock kind of after school training environment. They want to go to TPH Academy so bad that Kirsten, her name is, she came up and said, Coach Shimo, can you record a video that I'm going to send to my parents and tell me how awesome TPH is? Because me and my sister want to go and we keep begging our parents and they just won't let us. I'm like, that is amazing. Of course, I'll do the video. But hey, like, let's get in touch. You know, one of our stances, financials will never come between us. a player wanting to attend our academy and not. We have scholarships out there. We can work with families. We have donors. There's means of ways. If a player in the Philadelphia area were to, I want to go to TPH Academy. My parents can't afford it. The conversation becomes, how can we make this happen? We're not turning away anyone. Yeah, that's great. We're going to keep this on Jimmy's interview. But I think if I know it's OK. No, but I think but I think the real question, too, and because I think of parents and Jimmy, you're in that you're in the same world as us. Right. This whole East Coast, like like churning hockey environment. I think when a lot of parents go down, they do. I call it the parent calculator, like sit down and really look at what you're spending anyway. Right. And then think about the desire your child has for an in-person hockey development experience with this educational model that could doesn't fit everyone. but could fit your child's needs. A lot of times you'll find when you do the math and you do the hours of reps and you do all the training, all the stuff that you're doing now, all the one-offs that you have to pay for anyway, When you start doing the math and you start breaking down travel and you start breaking down all the food and gear and everything, it starts to come pretty damn close. Like it really starts to like start to say like, oh, okay, well, now I'm in that world of I'm paying this already. What are the pros and cons of my son or daughter being in a different environment? So I don't think there's – but I would agree with Jimmy too. It's almost like the coach that wants kids to ask. If you don't ask and you don't have a desire and you don't, it's just like any college, right? The kids that are applying to colleges. I want the best kids in my academy because ultimately I want to show that I produce the best kids. So if you're going to be a kid that's going to showcase me as an academy and you're going to be a kid that's going to come in and make me look good because you're an unbelievable athlete and a great person and somebody that's going to go to another, you know, a higher academic institution in college and somebody is going to say, where'd you come from? I came from that academy. That's a kid that I want because that's a kid that's going to showcase me. We will do anything possible to get that kid. If you're going to be the kid that writes a check and sits in his room and doesn't get up for practice and is always late for meals, it's the same kid that you wouldn't pick on your sixteen new national team. Same kid. Yep. One hundred percent. It's life skills that these kids are learning in this environment. And I love how, you know, Mike, you didn't say they could get to the next junior level or the next college level playing hockey like they will be set up. In life, you know, in life, not everyone is going. A lot of people are not going to make it in hockey and everyone's hockey career ends at some point. We need to be preparing these student athletes for what comes after hockey and and what happens along the way. Well, you guys see now why I asked the question, right? Because I wanted you guys to explain that, and I did Mr. Miyagi you guys a little bit there because I knew there would be a good answer, right? Because I can see the parents being like, oh, this is beyond AAA. This is something completely different. Um, but the truth is this, it's not right. It is, it is selective, but it's the, it's a certain type of kid that has a certain type of environment. Mike, I love that you brought up the financials because, um, like I'm one of those guys. I'm not, follow me here, everybody. Like I'm not criticizing anybody for looking at gas prices. All right. But most people that complain about gas prices, like you're saving forty five to fifty cents at the pump, but then you fill your tank up. Right. But we'll go immediately to Starbucks and get a six dollar coffee. Yeah. Okay. And that's reality. We all do it. My father used to drive to a town like, you know, ten minutes away because the gas was ten cents cheaper. I said, what the hell? I said, you're killing me. I said, but you're right. But let's look at – do apples to apples sometimes like you're saying. My point is we all – I'm guilty of this. All right? Yeah, no doubt. But it's like when you take a step back and go, okay, like you said, Mike, let's really look apple to apples. It's there. Jimmy, I also love what you brought up because it would have been the same conversation in my house. You want to go to hockey school? First off, if I was sixteen, I'd be in your school. I'll tell you that right now. Because I love that stuff. I want to bring this up, too, for the second part of that question I asked. I think it's important for everyone to hear this. The kids that are accepted in the academy, they were doing this stuff anyway. in terms of the obsession, the dedication, the work, Can we talk about that real quick? Cause I think it's important for the audience to understand you're not creating the mindset. You're cultivating it again, but they're coming in with that mindset. You're not just taking anybody that goes, yeah, I want to be better. And hockey school sounds fun. These kids were doing it anyway. Right. And I think it's important to explain that. Cause if, if, if parents and kids, if you want to be on the trajectory for something like this, the work actually starts way sooner at that below you. Twelve. time period. Right. Because it's like, you're not, you're not going to just snap your fingers at set and be like, well, no, no, I'm a super academic all-star now. Um, and I really want this, right. It's right. Jimmy, am I wrong in any of this? It's no, no, you're a hundred percent right. And, and, uh, we've tightened up our admissions process a lot because we found in year one, uh, You know, it was it was the new shiny toy. Kids are like, oh, I don't have to go to brick and mortar school. I don't have to go to school every day and I can play hockey like that. Sounds great. Like, yeah, let's sign me up. But then we found that it's not for everyone. And, you know, just. Not wanting to go to school and play hockey every day is not enough to make it in a hockey academy. You need to have all the stuff that we've talked about, you know, the internal motivation, the desire to get better every day, the, you know, the ability to wake up and work. I think that's important. Like, you know, adults, kids, doesn't matter. Like we all got to wake up and work and, and some days we don't want to, but it's that discipline that comes into play of like, Hey, you know, I'm, I'm going to do it today. You know, I'm going to do it to the best of my ability. And the best is the best that you can give is always enough. And I think the reality too, is like some parents are going to look at this and say, you know, and they, they think they can, they can jam a square peg in a round hole. And, and, You know, it no matter how much betting you do for an athlete, you're going to get those athletes that just don't fit into the system because they you know, it was really driven by their parents. Right. Or another you know, there was another aspect of this. Now, there are some players that come in that you would never think would thrive in the environment. And all of a sudden at the end of the year, like, wow, that that player like that, that steel sharpened steel mentality helped that player. Like, you know, and it's a but it's a it's a it's a it's a delicate balance. It's the elite kids that are already very good. You have to convince them that that other kid that's on the ice is not affecting their development and it's not holding them back. And I think that's what people like are beginning conversation. Sometimes those athletes like come down to the level of the kids they're on the ice with. And that's them. That has nothing to do with the person, you know, building the environment, which probably brings me to my, you know, I guess another question because of, you know, who you are, right? Like the habits of hockey and that mindset, uh, You know, developing habits of hockey and what it takes, like how what you use to approach development. And I think that all goes into kind of what you're doing at TPH in your own personal life and and your own personal development. But can you talk about a little bit about what are what are a core habit that you look for or want to develop in an athlete, whether in an academy or a travel team or just a kid that's going day to day that just wants to get better? Yeah. Yeah. I always like to say I wear a lot of hats and they have different logos, but like I'm always I'm always coaching the same way. Like I am still the same person and I have the same goals for everyone that I work with, you know. But Habits of Hockey really has been an evolution. If you look back on my my Instagram, you know, it started out with like. motivational quotes and stuff that I found interesting, you know, to help me along the way quote wise. Uh, and then I was like clipping NHL videos and like pointing out like how the goal was scored or like, not necessarily like the dangle snipe, but like the stuff that isn't really on, on social media that like creates the play. And so I was pointing out like those like on ice habits of hockey and, uh, And then, you know, I got my nutrition certification. I was like, you know, actually, nutrition is super important for these kids to learn. And so I started doing like nutrition consultations with families on like, you know, the the fifteen, the fourteen, fifteen year old kid is not going out buying groceries like it's the parents. And so the kids end up eating what the parents make or buy. And so like it actually became like a little bit of therapy between like Hey mom, like I want to eat better. And then the mom is like, well, you know, and they go back and forth and I'm just sitting there like, all right, let this play out. Like we're getting somewhere here, but like, you know, giving just like a plan of like, all right, Child, you say you want to eat healthier and you will eat the food. Mom, will you cook the food? Will you buy this food so player can get better? All right. We're on the same page. Check back in a couple of weeks. Like that's how initially it started through hockey videos and nutrition. You know, at the time I was still doing strength conditioning. So ten years of training athletes, that's natural to me. Like there's an online program that I work with. It's super easy for me to you know, right training programs based off of where they're at, hotel, what equipment they have, where they're at in the season, all that stuff. That's easy. but the X factor that really like capped off my habits of hockey is like the mindset piece. And that's something that I've really worked on in the last three years. And so the three pillars that I talked about are training, nutrition, and mindset. Now we've developed, I've developed six core values of athletes. And, you know, we, when I work with players one-on-one, we develop these core values and every player is a little bit different. We're going to, It's unique, right? But the six core values are work ethic, accountability, preparation, consistency, focus, and character. And I'm convinced that whether you're playing hockey, whether you're doing chess, whether you're a CEO of a company, whether you're doing podcasting, if you can dial in on your work ethic every day, if you can be accountable, if you can prepare ahead of time to be to be ready to go, if you can be consistent with your work. If you can bring a level of focus that elevates not just you, but everyone else in the room. And then if you can bring an element of character, do the little things when no one is watching, like that's where I think the real magic happens with habits of hockey. And I've had a lot of success, you know, hammering in on those core values. Isn't it ironic that the actual program that we bring our kids into is eliminates all of that. I mean, we, like the way we schedule youth hockey and the way we put kids into these environments, if you don't have somebody like you or you're not following these principles or you don't have an education about all the, like how important these things are, you, you, you don't get enough sleep. You don't get mentally focused. You don't eat properly. You're missing a lot of school. You probably have, you know, we teach our kids at a young age that, you know, Oh, you made the triple a team. So all of a sudden your character, like you're a little, you know, you think you're a little better than the other kids sitting in the room next to you. Like all of these things that we do, we have to fight to get, to where you want to be. And that's what's so great about, I think, habits of hockey and understanding those core values is that ultimately we've got to get our kids back to that If we want to succeed. And I think I think the road is we think, oh, we just got to go a couple of triple A tournaments in Chicago and my kid's going to get better. No, no, no. You have to have all these other core values or none of this or your ninety five mile per hour shot and your stick handling ability means nothing. Absolutely will not help you. And I think that's where a lot of parents get lost in the shuffle because they neglect all those other things, thinking that the path is something else. And it's actually not. Yep. One hundred percent. Well, I'm going to comment on this, too. So obviously, Jimmy, Mike's talking about the larger hockey environment. Right. We always say that, you know, you're not crazy. The hockey world's crazy. That's kind of the moniker here. But the truth, too, and I always like to bring this up and I think we would all agree as coaches here. it's really not that hard to implement some of this stuff, right? And, Mike, you're a hundred percent correct about the environment, but I wish we would see more hockey directors and hockey coaches come together over, hey, listen, give your kid this basic nutritional packet or one pager about- Yeah, don't get me wrong. It's our fault. I'm not saying it's not our fault. I'm just saying this is the fact that it is. Don't be a pessimistic Connecticut New Yorker right now. I'm being positive here. No, no, I'm saying like, like, listen, I, I just, you know, I don't know why more hockey directors don't advise your coaches or hand their coaches. Look, here's a one pager on nutrition. Here's a one pager on sleep. Here's a one pager on appropriate workouts for the age. Right. And just like, you can't, I'm not saying you need to like manage this stuff at younger levels or higher levels, but if we're not providing the information, people will go for what's easy. It is easier to go to McDonald's after a game. than it is to find a healthy meal. It is. And parents, for those of you with multiple kids, I really get it. I understand. Well, because you didn't prepare. That's what the principle is. You got to plan and prepare ahead of time. You guys are reading my mind, right? Habits of hockey, right? Get the information. It's out there. By the way, habitsofhockey.com. We should probably throw that out there real quick. All right. My point is. We are now accepting clients. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, guys. Just ask, right? Just ask. Just ask. Information's out there. And I got to say it. This goes so far beyond hockey. All right. Like Jimmy, we talk sometimes about teaching your kid to read the label on a side of a, of a thing in this grocery market. Like it's not hard to teach a kid. Yeah. If sugar's at one hundred and forty five percent of your daily value, don't pick that up. We're not getting that right. Or if certain certain if you if you can't read every ingredient on there, like these are little things that make huge differences in these kids lives and your lives as well. Parents and look, I hear it all the time. Well, what do you expect me to add more time to the day to make this food? No, I'm asking you just to take a moment to just look. All right, because the truth is this. If you do not build the habits, you said it actually, Jimmy, it doesn't matter what we're talking about, hockey or anything. If you don't build these habits, you're setting yourself up for a harder road. OK, and I think we could say the most successful people I know, you know, they have habits. Even the ones that look crazy have some form of a habit built up. Yeah, one hundred percent. And one of my favorite quotes is action comes before motivation. Right. So what does that mean? Like. You know, oh, I'm going to start on Monday. I'm going to start the diet on Monday. I'm going to work out on Monday. That doesn't mean anything until you take action. Right. You know, you got to take action until you're in the weight room doing the dynamic warm up about to lift and train. Yeah. Your motivation doesn't mean anything. Right. And so one of the key pieces of framework for Habits of Hockey is after every single call, we have actions. We have clear, attainable actions that I expect everybody. the players to follow through on and to work on. And they are never the same. I've worked with upwards of fifty players. They are never the same. It's always, hey, oh, I want to decrease my screen time. OK, how are we going to do that this week? I want you to blah, blah, blah. Right. You know, It always it comes from them and there's always actions there and the actions are what creates the magic. I'll tell you two things on that that I love. Right. Is that one? Everyone knows. Well, maybe you don't all know this. You're not always going to be motivated. You're not always going to have the drive of I want to do this, especially if it's something you don't want to do. Right. I think when people accept that motivation is not the key. Right. It's actually a bonus if you have it. Right. You're not always going to want to do it. The other thing, too, is one of the best quotes I ever heard. And you can apply this to a lot of different things was I knew someone who wanted to lose some weight, but they were eating a lot. Right. You do the math on that. And a coach said to this person, you have to be hungrier to lose the weight than you're hungrier to eat. And that really clicked with me in the way it was said of like, yeah, there has to be more desire to do what you don't want to do than doing what feels good. And again, you can apply that to anything. It's not just weight loss. Yeah. That's mind over matter. Right. That's a hundred percent correct. Right. And I just, I love that it was said that way. Cause we all hear mind over matter. Right. And it's like, Like you can apply that like, oh, OK, I want to get more endurance. Then when you're hungrier to work out than you are to sit on the couch, like you can apply that to anything. And I think it's a great way for especially younger people to kind of hear it in a different way. But you're a hundred percent right about mind over matter. You know, we're talking a lot about methodology habits. You know, Jimmy, I want to ask you about coaching. Right. Because. We talk about this all the time on the show that the truth is this. There's a lot of volunteer coaches out there. We always say God bless every single one of you for putting in the time. But there are a few great, great coaches out there. I think we have a lot of listeners who aspire to be great coaches. What in your mind separates great youth coaches from average ones? How do we evolve that? I would also, I got to say this too, adversely, I don't think there's as many bad coaches out there. I mean, they're out there as people think too. I think a majority of coaches are volunteer. I don't want to use the word average, but they're volunteer coaches, right? They're volunteering their time. For someone who wants to aspire to be great, what do you think the separators are? Yeah, well, I think there's a lot of levels to that. Like when you say a great coach, like, you know, there's a million ways to coach, as you know. You know, I think you can be a great coach and not have any hockey experience, you know, to a certain level. Like you're not going to be coaching in the NHL or college, but like with the kids, like you can be a great coach and not have a lot of hockey experience. I think what separates an average from great, generally speaking, is like the level of care. Like how much do you care about your team or about the individuals on your team? You know, are you planning practices the right way? Like, you know, are you watching the games? Are you seeing the skills that the kids need to work on or the team needs to work on, whatever that might be? Are you taking the time to care enough to design your season in a way that facilitates development from point A beginning of the year to point B end of the year. And what are you doing in between? And there's a million different ways to get, to, to go between that. But I think generally speaking, as long as you care and you can connect with the players in a way that they trust you, then I think you're, you're, you're going to be, you know, you're going to be an impactful coach on their development. What, whether you're Peewee squirt might ban a major midget, whatever, but, If you care about the athlete, you care about the team, and you can find ways to connect with them, whatever that might be, I think you're putting yourself in a pretty good position to be a great coach. Jim, it's a phenomenal answer. And I'll say too, that I've said this on the show before, and I'm saying this to the coaches listening and the parents, right? I think a lot of parents don't realize how much we care about their kids and how often we're thinking about their kids after the practices, after the games. And so I'd say to the coaches, if you fall into that category, you're doing it right. All right. Now, I also want to say what you said though, Jimmy, which is, there's a step above that of the full season view and planning and doing great drill prepping and understanding where your kids are at and meeting them where they're at. To me, that's like a big step forward. Right. But if you care about the kids you're coaching, you are probably a great coach starting that. And I love that you mentioned that. Sorry, Mike, I didn't mean to cut you off there. No, you cut me off. I think it's a great explanation of what a great coach can be. And I think, you know, the modern coach too is, you know, I actually get a little, I get a little offended by, you know, being, you know, when you call people a coach, when they're just really a manager and a coach is something different. I mean, yes, you might be on the bench, you might be doing practices, but you're really not a coach. you're a manager you're just somebody that's managing the team i think coaches that care and can evolve and can understand like today's athlete and you know not that they're softer but they're you know they're they're they just you know these athletes have they had the same information as you as a coach like they can look up whatever the hell they want like when i played i have no idea i'm like i don't know coach said this he said this I had no reference to anything. Like, I couldn't go to – I couldn't see a million different coaches on Instagram. I couldn't go to Habits of Hockey and say, well, that guy is a pro guy, and he's saying that, and my coach is saying this. So it is harder, but I think at the end of the day, if you care – You know, they don't, what's the saying in USA hockey has that great saying, right? That they don't care how much, you know, until they know how much you care. And that's just, and that is a core value of anybody that's working with kids or any, you know, anybody that's trying to learn. Mike, I'm laughing and Jimmy, because when I was growing, just, just on that story, you just told Mike, I remember when I was a kid. watching Eric Lindros run over a guy on a face-off, right? Now, NHL hockey in the nineties, that's my education. Next game, I ran a guy over on the face-off and I'll never forget. Like, well, Lindros did it. That's awesome. I'll never, I didn't get a penalty, but I remember the whistle blew pretty quick and the ref, the ref came up to me and he goes, son, you can't run a guy over on the face-off right now. But Eric Lindros just did this. He goes, you're not Eric Lindros. But that's how we learn. We kind of had to learn the way you can learn. Now, we say it all the time. You got to vet everything. But kids, you've got unlimited access to resources that way more than any of us had growing up. You know, use it, but don't trust everything. Obviously, you know, go to hockey dot com. Don't just go to like YouTube influencer number seventy five says this, that and this. All right. Because you got to be careful anyway. And again, real quickly, to your point, like if you see something like that and kids out there, like if you're like, hey, like, is this real? Is this is this right? Again, ask. Like ask your coach, like your coach might be like, that's, that's, that's very, that's great. Like adopt that. Or he's like, Hey, let me explain why this might not be true. You know, like continually ask your coach for advice. And that's why we're here. That's why all coaches are here to mentor you. For the most part, ninety five percent. Yeah. You know, we want to mentor. We want to get back to the game because it gave it gave us so much. A hundred percent. That resonates with me and Mike so much there, Jamie. I'll say to like, you know, great example. I like to give examples. Guy who was just at Iceland front of the show, Satoshi Takano, which was on the show. He came and visited me. Right, and we were talking about breaking down plays, and we did this really great one with McDavid where on the highlight, all you see is him come over the blue line, get the puck, go around three people and score. It looked amazing. But when you break the play down, you see the play actually started very deep in his zone. It's a set play. He charged up the ice. They knew what they were doing. There was so much more to that where he was at full speed by the time he received the puck, and I think if you don't see that, this is how you get kids trying to deke three people from a standstill position in the zone, which is not correct. You're not Connor McDavid. You're not Connor yet. I'll say yet. Right. No, you're not Connor McDavid. And, and, uh, and if, even if you want to be, you got to see the full, the full, the three-sixty view of that play. Um, so this is actually a good transition point, Jimmy. Let's talk about parents. Let's talk about parents. Okay. Um, show is called our kids play hockey. So we're always talking about a lot of parents. Uh, They're juggling schedules, lots of academics, expectations, financials. What advice do you have for them in the sense and the overviewing mindset of we don't want to burn our kids out? And this is the truth. Parents are probably the leading cause of burnout or contributor, not cause, contributor of burnout to their kids. Right. So how can parents support that journey? And I'll remind you, you have an audience that is leaning forward right now, very interested in your answer because they want to do the best they can. Yeah, well, I think we might have to schedule another podcast over a bunch of different topics on parental parental advice. But let's see. I think I think you said it, Lee, I think support them, like just support them. Enjoy the ride. Right. transport them, drop them off, ask them how practice went, how did the game go, you know, hear from them, listen to them, rather than try to talk about other teammates or other players or, you know, themselves, what, what the player could have done better. Hey, I, you know, this play, that play does not matter. Right. The coaches like, you know, don't, don't talk about the coaches in the car ride home. Don't talk about other players or their parents in the car ride home. Cause the kids are listening and they absorb everything that you say. And so I would, I would say, ask more questions, ask more questions, open-ended questions and, where they need to think about, you know, how they played or how they felt during the game. You know, how'd you feel out there? You know, what could you have done better? You know, like that, that question right there, what could you have done better is not telling them anything. It's letting them think about the game and it doesn't need to be right in the car at home. Right. Like should never be around. We have coaches and parents like, yeah, let's implement a twenty four hour rule with the kids, too. And, you know, maybe there's a certain level of accountability on the kids part. And the parents set this up. Hey, like, After games, go home and journal. I just want you to write down three things about the game that you did well, three things that you can do to improve yourself. We're not going to talk about them, but I want you to write them down so you can reflect and continue to get better. It's all about progress. I think supporting them is number one. Enjoy the ride. Ask more questions. One of my favorite lines I tell all the I played Thursday night men's league at ice line. And so all the dads now have kids and I'm like, just, just tell them you loved watching them play. I love watching you play today. Yeah. That's my favorite line. We did an episode. It's our most popular episode ever, Jimmy, which is three things you should say to your kids before every game and practice. And it was, I love you no matter what happens out there. I love watching you play and do your best and have fun. It's really the support to your wording that your kid needs. They need your support. They need you to be somewhat of a safe place to land because trust me, they're dealing with all of the emotions. And we get some parents say, well, my kid doesn't even care. I said, you know, that's, I don't want to tell you this. That's okay too. Like they're kids, right? Like if they don't care, they're telling you something, right? Yeah. Is this what you want to do? Right. Just a general question. Like not, not being like a, what's the word targeting or whatever, but like, Hey, like, is this something, something that you enjoy doing? Like be honest, have an open conversation. Always. If that's the case, you know, if they're seeing that. And we, we always say the car ride home is not the time to be coaching. The car ride is not for coaching, like let them be. And if your kid's thinking about Fortnite after the game, that's absolutely normal for them to not think about what they just did. I always say this too. Think about when you were a kid and you came home and if your parents were like, how was school today? Right? Like the last thing you wanted to talk about after school was school. And I catch myself doing that. Hey, I was, because the truth is this, and this is the upside of it. I just want to have a conversation with my kid. I love my kids. I want to have a conversation, but it's everyone's all like, how was school today? I'm like, you know what? That's not a great question. Yeah. No, no. Ask, ask good questions. Great questions. Demand great answers. Like something, tell me something amazing that happened to you today. Like that's going to tell, Oh, well this happened at lunch and this and that, you know, how was math today? Like, yeah, I don't really want to talk about math after school. Yeah, that's, that's completely it. You know, enjoy the ride with them, support them and, and, and just be there for them. I love it, Jimmy. I know we're getting up on time here, so I'm going to kind of jump ahead to the end here about the future of youth hockey development. Again, I was born in the early eighties. You were born in the early nineties. Mike was born at some point during the twentieth century. You know, he's he's up there. Long time ago. Long time ago. Think about over the decades. We've training development has changed so much. Easiest example, mental health was a weakness thirty years ago. Now it's a strength. You know, I've seen old NHL footage of guys smoking while they were working out in the seventies. It's changed a lot. You're super deeply connected here. Right. With with players, educators, organizers across the country. Where do you see this going over the next decade? Right. Well, what's going to evolve? Like, do you think there are things that are coming that maybe are not mainstream yet that we should all be paying attention to? Well, I think it's a hard question to answer because hockey is moving so fast, so fast. And especially with this, like at the AAA level, the new NDL league, like that's going to change a whole lot, a whole lot. But, and then like, you know, you talk about development, like, when everyone is doing more, more, more, like, how are you going to separate yourself? Right. What are you going to do? Everyone gets on the ice five times a week now and they travel and they do this. Now there's a hockey Academy in every small city. Like what are you going to do to separate yourself? You know, and that, that could be a lot of different answers, but I think when we talk about hockey development, it becomes more of like a personal development. Like, you know, I'm going to allude to habits of hockey, obviously, but like it becomes to personally develop the person who you are, right? Like, and when, you know, I know this for a fact, when colleges and junior hockey teams are recruiting, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year olds, they ask questions like, how is he off the ice? What is his family like? How is he as a kid? What is he like in the locker room? What is he like on the bench? And that can make or break a career right there if you haven't worked on the personal side of who you are as a person and you're yelling at teammates and you're taking bad penalties and You know, no one's to be like you could lose a spot on a team that you have immense talent for. And then you get stuck playing on a team. You should never be there. Like you should be at the top. You have that talent. But what you didn't work on is the person that you are. I love that answer. And just to support you in that answer, we've we've had guests on like a J.B. Spieser right now. He's been on work at the NHL level. And he said when they were trading for players, when he was working with the Florida Panthers, he would ask, how does he treat the equipment manager? Tell me about his experience with the equipment manager. This is an NHL trade, right? The talent's clearly there, right? How does he treat the assistant coaches? These are the questions he would ask when looking at it. In an NHL room, there's fifty five people working on that trade. But that's that's part of the process. And I love that what you said, too. And I want to close it on this, too. I always feel like we have to say this, right? The goal of youth hockey is to develop a person, right? Like the hockey is always the bonus, always, right? The youth hockey journey is your opportunity to develop a well-rounded human being to be successful at something. And to quote my man, macho man, Reggie Savage, like the cream will always rise to the top. Right. If if you've got the talent, you've got the desire. It will take care of itself. Right. You know, I know people who throw so much money at this thinking I'll buy my kids way into the top. And it rarely I mean, it rarely works out. It does help, but it rarely works out. I think I think you got I think Jimmy could back me up by this too. So having been, you know, at the national program and being involved in so many, you know, pro level kind of programs and being around real high performers that, you know, back in the day, like it took you a long time to find out a kid was a jackass. you know, when you recruited them. And now like in, in, in the, in the, in the hockey development world, we all know everything about every kid. If I need, like I can literally go on Instat and see every single nine-year-old right now in the world that I would love to talk to at some point. But what I can't do is I need to find out exactly what you're talking about. Like, I don't what I can't see on film is how they react to their teammate on the bench, what they're like in the locker room, how they treat their parents. You know what? Do they clean their own meals up? You know, they clean their plate after a meal like the person that I need to put in my environment. I can't tell by video. And I think, you know, that that hockey development piece that Jimmy's talking about is is and it's so hard for some of us as parents. Right. It's because it's everything else as a player's character. other than their skill, because everyone knows their skill. Everyone sees it. At the NHL level, there's thousands of hours of film on any player. But what you need to know is those little details, like I'm picking this kid, I'm investing a lot of money, and I'm investing a lot of time, and they have to fit into my environment. Who is he? What can they do for me? And how are they going to react when it's not going their way or when it is going their way? And I think that's really a nuance of where the modern game is right now. Yeah, that's a key point, Mike. With Instat, you know, scouts can watch players at any level from anywhere at any time. You know, like you could stay up all night watching players. But we talk about good coaches. I think a good scout is someone who goes to the game and talks to them after the game. You know, then you get the character. Talk to the coach, talk to the kid, because you care about the player that you're looking to draft or select. I don't think I ever recruited a college kid before. when I was on the road that I didn't watch in practice. I don't remember ever just taking a kid off of a, you know, score three goals at two assists and got the game winning goal. I would just wait up next morning, go to practice, watch the kid walk into the rink and say, okay, this is the kid I want. Like this is a kid that I can deal with win or loss. Mike with the, with the national team, when we pick players, like I've turned down talented players because they do not make miss. I'm sorry. They do not meet the character piece. Yeah. Right. And we ask to your point, Jimmy, we ask a lot of questions that surprise them. Things like what does trust mean to you? Tell me what a great team environment looks like to you and how do you contribute to that? If I get three word answers to those questions, like you're telling me something right now, I get a paragraph. You're telling me something. Yeah. Right. So louder than just a whole paragraph. Right. Right. And, and, you know, to, to be cliche and quote a movie, I'm not looking for the best players, Craig, I'm looking for the right ones. Like that is a very true statement across the board. But Jimmy, what I've loved about this episode, man, I'm so happy you came on was that, you know, it's so good for the listeners to hear, even at the highest levels, right. Right. The elite academy level, all of these core habits, all of these core mentalities, all the thing about building a person, it's still true. And that's one of the reasons we love doing the show is because we're able to kind of open up the eye on what is going to help you and your family become successful, not just in hockey, but in life. Right. And I really appreciate you sharing not just the TPH Academy stuff, but also the habits of hockey stuff. Again, habits of hockey dot com. Go. You should be running there now. We'll link it in the description about what can make a successful person and a successful athlete. And I'm glad that we talk about coaches a little bit, too, because that care piece, I love that you brought that up. Because it just goes to show. It goes to show. Excuse me. I think sometimes there's this misconception on academies, and Mike, you deal with this too, that they're just after my cash. They don't really care about my kid. They care so much. They care so much about your kid. Yes. Right? That's why they're doing it. The good ones do. Fair enough. Do your research. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've talked about that on the show too. There are red flags out there like, no, just pay your dues and I'll be happy. Mike, did you have any final words before I close this out? No, that's the key. I mean, especially that guys, you, you have to, you have to produce the best kids because if you're recruiting the best kids, but if we accept you, you know, we want to, we want to develop you. Like if you, if you come into us, we're our obligation. is to make sure you have a great experience. And I think if that is, if the thought process is anytime you are going to take somebody's money and their time and the resources that you want to provide, then you better work your ass off to make sure that that kid has a great experience. And that's different for every kid. And that's the juggle of all these type of programs is you have to find good, compassionate, caring coaches that want to make sure that they look good because your kid looks good. And there's one quote that I wanted to get in here at some point is one size does not fit all. One size rarely fits any. And everyone is different. And so I think the more you can individualize the development and programming along the way, you're going to set them up for success. I love it, Jimmy. And trust, but verify. That's the other one we'll say. But, dude, that's a great way to end the show. Can I just say Jimmy Law is a great name? What a great hockey name, right? Who are you playing against today? Jimmy Law is out there. So, uh, no, Jimmy, thanks. Thanks so much for joining us today. Uh, this has been a tremendous episode. Yeah. Thanks a lot, guys. I really appreciate it. All right. For those of you listening again, if you want more information, tphacademy.com or habitsofhockey.com. If you want to learn more about what Jimmy does and, and the academy is part of, but, uh, that's going to do it for this edition of our kids play hockey. Remember you can always email us team at ourkidsplayhockey.com. If you have questions, concerns, comments, anything you want us to talk about, on the air or check out the link accompanying the episode in the description. You can text to us again. We can't text back. Make sure you leave your name in your hometown if you want and let us know what you want us to talk about. But for Jimmy Law, for Mike Benelli, I'm Lee Elias. We'll see you on the next edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Have a great day, everybody. See you guys.