Hard Work Over Hype: Lessons from Matt Moulson’s NHL Career

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 1:06]: Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias and I'm joined by Christy Cashiana Burns and Mike Benelli. And our guest today is the embodiment of perseverance in hockey. Matt Molson was a 9th round NHL Draft pick, and just to keep that in context, they don't even do nice nine rounds anymore, all right? And he defied the odds to play 11 seasons in the league, notch over 350 points, and wear letters on his chest along the way. But more than that, Mountain has a proud husband, father, and after hanging up the skates professionally, he turned his focus to giving back to the game that gave him so much. Whether it's coaching youth hockey, writing a children's book, or simply showing up at the rink for his own kids, he's a passionate ambassador for the next generation of players. Today we'll explore Matt's winding road to the NHL, the lessons he learned along the way, and most importantly, his advice for young players and parents trying to navigate the hockey world today. Which is why this show literally exists. Matt, welcome to our Kids Play Hockey. 

Matt Moulson [1:07 - 1:10]: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure, pleasure to be on with you guys. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:11 - 1:53]: No, it's a pleasure to have you too, man. And it's really great because, you know, you're someone whose career I watched, I know all of us did. We're able to follow along and to get to dive into your story is really exciting. So let's kind of start at the beginning of the NHL career. Being a 9th round pick is no guarantee to be in the NHL. All right. Being a 7th round pick is no guarantee. So I want to know that while you're picked and that's a tremendous honor. Again, not a lot of people get drafted to begin with. What kept you going when those odds didn't look exactly promising because you did have a full career, you, you were a leader in the league. Right? How did you compartmentalize that mentally? What did you do physically after being drafted in ninth round to get all the way to where you got? 

Matt Moulson [1:54 - 3:18]: You know, it's a good question, I think, as the easy answer is just a lot of work. You know, I think when I was probably 25, I was three years into my professional career and had three pretty good years in Manchester and AHL and played some games with LA and I saw it as kind of a fork in the road. This is kind of going to be my make or break year. And, you know, it's very you look back on your career in life, obviously, and think about some of the very fortunate, lucky things you had. You know, that year, coming off three years in the minors, met my now wife, who was a huge support system for me and my good luck charm, and then started training with Ben Prentice, who kind of reshaped my nutrition and workout and surrounded by some. Some great players here. Marty St. Louis was, you know, a guy that I looked up to and looked for advice and met him at the exact same time in Greenwich, Connecticut. So it was all these things kind of happened at once, and in years of just putting in hard work and maybe just tweaking it a little bit, eventually paid off when I finally got to the Islanders. 

Christie Casciano [3:18 - 3:21]: And what was that like for you? You made it. 

Matt Moulson [3:23 - 4:19]: Yeah, I never played a full season in the NHL before, and that first year, you know, I had a really good training camp. Also pretty fortunate, unfortunate for some guys. I remember Dougie Waite went out with a growing injury in training camp. Sean Bergenheim went with the growing injury, so there was really no left wingers. And I knew John Tavares since he was, I don't know, probably nine or 10 years old. So I knew him really well. And we just seemed to click and had a great training camp and. And made the team out of camp and continued to get some goals on. On that line with him and Kyle Aposto. And it was kind of like, all right, you finally. I think you finally made it and went on to have a great year and. And kind of build off that. But that was a huge, huge confidence builder for me that year. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [4:19 - 4:32]: You know what's interesting to me, Matt, when I want to talk about it, and I do, we all remember that line. If you grew up around that time period, it's just like the Islanders that kind of arrived again. But what I want to talk to you about here is this, right? When you look at the. 

Mike Bonelli [4:32 - 4:32]: The. 

Lee MJ Elias [4:32 - 5:29]: The journey of hockey, right? And we always say on this show, there is no path. There's no direct path. So whether you're drafted in the ninth round or you didn't make the team you want to make, I. I love how in your answer, it was just positive, like, well, I had to put in more work. I had to find the night right nutrition. I had to find the right people. It sounds like to me, and I do want you to talk to the parents and the kids listening specifically here, that it's not that you lacked resources, it's you were resourceful. Right. And I think that that's something that a lot of hockey families need to kind of consider, because I think sometimes it's, well, I'll find another team or I need to find another coach, or I, you know, they're looking for other resources where the truth is, you just need to be a little more resourceful and put the time in and find the right nutrition and find the right trainer and work harder. Can you, can you talk a little bit to hockey families about how that mentality maybe spawned in you? Did you have that from a young age and how did that help you throughout your entire career from the first day on the ice all the way through retirement? 

Matt Moulson [5:32 - 8:02]: Yeah, I think the first, first point I'll make to your comment, I think it's, you know, today's day and age. We expect to have everything easy. We want this great path for our children where there's no adversity and they just, they're great from 5 years old to 20 years old and playing the NHL. But the truth is, there's always adversity. If there isn't. Usually those are the guys that are not making it because they haven't faced adversity. And, you know, you see these guys in the NHL, all this is adversity every day. So I think when I was young, it was my dad doing all the research. You know, he loved hockey. Wasn't really much of a hockey player, as much as he likes to think, but he kind of did all the research for me. And I think, you know, was. It was looking at. Looking at. At the time, both of us looking at me with, like, brutal honesty. We knew my weaknesses, knew things I had to work on, and they weren't going to be fixed overnight. It was just day after day working on them and improving, you know, flaws I had in my game. I think it's a very, very tedious work where it's. You don't really see any results. I think that's the, that's the thing. I think you see a lot of people now say, I mean, I've seen a lot of people on Instagram or whatever saying you have to fall in love with the process. And I think that's the whole thing. If you're, if you're thinking about the end goal, you know, it's just so far away that it's tough to reach. But if you're, if you're working on the process every day, and that's. That comes like finding the right training, finding the right skates, what have you. You know, you fall in love with working hard, and it's never really you against anyone else or trying to make it over someone else. It's always, you know, My son actually started his first day at Ben Prentice today, and I told him, working out is not about beating other people in terms of lifting more weight than them. It's. It's the ultimate mental, mental challenge where it's just you versus you. It's how far can you push your body, how much are you willing to push your body? And I think for me, luckily, I don't know if I was born with it or what, but I always really enjoyed pushing myself to absolute failure. So, you know, all these things my dad researched in the past, you know, the skating and the working out, you know, I was always willing to do it because I always wanted to push myself till complete failure. 

Mike Bonelli [8:03 - 8:03]: Right. 

Christie Casciano [8:03 - 8:36]: And I think part of it is you were born with it, but you also worked really hard at your skills. And part of your development included Cornell University. So you find that we're Big Red fans here in Syracuse, New York. Yeah. And I mean, what a run they just had. Right? That must have really helped you get more disciplined. And that NCAA experience, too, must have set you up n for your career later on. 

Matt Moulson [8:38 - 10:01]: Well, 100%. I think growing up, schooling was always very important to our family and important to me as well. I always wanted to do well in school. I always wanted to get good grades. I knew, obviously I always wanted to play in the NHL, but at 15, 16, my goal was to try to go to university, get a scholarship. Obviously they don't hand those out in the Ivy League, but I think that that was my goal is to play hockey in college. And that was my, I guess, goal before the NHL, something I always held important. I wanted to graduate, I wanted to make sure I had that because, I mean, you know, that NHL is not exactly a guarantee. So to be able to. I think I kind of always had that in my back pocket to lean on if I had to was my degree and obviously going to a great school. And, you know, I think more than teaching me discipline, I think just meeting just some of the unbelievable people at Cornell was good, good life lessons that I could transfer to two sports and school. But, you know, there were some pretty remarkable people that I got to become friends with and meet when I was there and a huge part of my life. 

Lee MJ Elias [10:02 - 10:08]: You know, if you went to college today, you might have got paid. The way things are going, you know, a different world. 

Mike Bonelli [10:11 - 10:57]: Yeah, no, no, I was going to say Matt. I mean, obviously, obviously you've. You've experienced you know, some great opportunities along the way because of your skill level and your work ethic. But can you just talk a little bit about, you know, your roles as a leader, a recognized leader? I mean, you've been, you've been worn letters in the NHL and the ahl. I'm sure in youth hockey, you're probably looked up to as a leader on your team. Can you talk a little bit about how your leadership qualities have evolved and, and really, you know, maybe even you mentioned Marty St. Louis or. I think a lot of people look as one of the ultimate leaders. Right. Like, how did you. How did you evolve in the way you lead and maybe some suggestions for our youth players in the way they're, you know, navigating that leadership role. 

Matt Moulson [10:58 - 14:15]: Yeah, I think, you know, when you're young, you're always kind of taught to lead by example, I think. So that's like through your work ethic and being a good teammate. And then I think as you evolve as an athlete and you're just coming to, you encounter some great leaders. I mean, all the way up through my career, junior college, ahl, NHL, there was always just great leaders that you. You'd meet and they were on your team and, you know, not necessarily the captain a lot of times. Yes, but I think you're. You're always looking for better ways to, to help your team and as you get older, obviously help the younger guys. You want to pass on what, what the older guys meant to you. I think Doug Waite was a huge kind of inspiration for me my first year at the Islanders. John Tavares and I lived in his guest house, so he had a large dose of the Waite family, and they were an unbelievable family. And Dougie at the pinnacle of that was, you know, he's a great friend, great leader, great teammate. His wife, Allison, was always so kind to us and my wife. And I think seeing how he, how he led was an eye opener at the time where, you know, it didn't necessarily have to be this hard ass. Sorry, I don't know if you're allowed to say that. Hard guy, hard guy on his teammates. It wasn't him always demanding stuff, stuff of his teammates. He was there to joke around. He was there to lighten up the mood when we need to. When we needed a good kick in the butt. He definitely gave it to Johnny and I. And I think you just respect what, what I got from it was how much you respect someone who's obviously knowledgeable, but honest with you. Not, not trying to sugarcoat anything. He's always honest with us and. And always trying to help us. I think he could be hard on us one, one minute and then, you know, comforting us, maybe mentally after a bad game, another time with a beer or two in his living room. So I think it's just being able to adapt as a leader and understand, I think by the end of my career, understand what each individual player needed and how important every single person is to the team and making them feel important. I think that's a big, big thing. You know, the. When you have guys in the team willing to sacrifice and fight, but they might not be on the score sheet, they have to be recognized. They have to know how important they are to the winning of the team. And I think that's maybe something I learned through my entire career, but I came away. I think that's the biggest thing of a leader. Just, you know, and some guys need to hear some hard things at times, and that's your job. It's not your job to be necessarily best friends with everyone, but you have to make them feel all important and all part of the team, you know. 

Lee MJ Elias [14:15 - 14:36]: Matt, I want to ask you, too. When you think about letters in youth hockey, and this is a conversation that I know, especially Mike and I have, a lot of times, there are kids who want the letter. You know, sometimes kids who will say, need the letter. And, you know, the quote that I always tell them is that if you need the letter to be a leader, you're probably not ready for it yet. Right? 

Matt Moulson [14:36 - 14:36]: The. 

Lee MJ Elias [14:37 - 15:08]: The honor of receiving a C or an A has nothing to do with needing it. It's. It's by the type of leadership that you display. So can you take yourself back? And I know you deal with kids in youth hockey all the time. Maybe let's go to that 10 through 15 age, right, where everybody's growing, everybody's running and that, you know, sometimes I think there's the misconception that the best player on the team has to have the C. Right. What would your message be to young kids about receiving a letter or wanting a letter or the responsibilities of a letter at that kind of critical age? 

Matt Moulson [15:10 - 15:16]: I think is the most useless thing ever. I don't think. I don't. 

Mike Bonelli [15:16 - 15:17]: I don't. 

Matt Moulson [15:17 - 17:15]: I don't. I mean, we don't do any letters on our team right now. I think. I mean, eventually, I don't know what the age is, but, you know, I just don't think they have. I think you. I know who the leaders are on our youth hockey team. I could see it every time. I don't think they need a letter to do that. I think especially at a young age, maybe they don't understand enough so their parents are telling them something if they don't get a letter. So I think that's something that probably doesn't need to happen early. You know, I think if the best player is not the captain, is he gonna leave your team? I don't know. Because his parents are upset that he's not the captain, which, I mean, you don't. I mean, I just think they need to learn to lead correctly before there's actual letters. And I think you see the ones that are leaders and how they lead in different ways. And I don't think. I don't think there's any leader out there that needs a letter in any age group in the NHL asl, to be a good leader. So you can always be a great leader without the letter. If your team does give out letters, that doesn't necessarily mean you're not a leader. It is a great honor when you are a letter. And that's kind of why I say it's useless, because I don't know if they truly understand how important it is if they are wearing those letters to make sure everyone is involved and everyone is feeling part of the team. I think that's mostly the coaches at that age. So maybe by 16 or so, I think you see guys start separate themselves as actual born leaders and great for the team leaders. So maybe by then it's a little more important. 

Christie Casciano [17:16 - 17:23]: I'm curious that you say you don't do letters on your team. What age are you talking about? And how did you explain that to the parents and the kids? 

Matt Moulson [17:27 - 17:33]: We are. What are we, second year peewee? How do I explain that to him? I told him we're not doing. Yeah, I told him we're not doing letters. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:34 - 17:35]: Yeah. Coach says. 

Mike Bonelli [17:36 - 17:37]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [17:37 - 17:41]: Did anybody ever get any pushback from parents or anything? 

Matt Moulson [17:42 - 17:50]: Not yet. Not yet. Sure. I'm sure I'll get some soon, Christy. But after they watch this episode. 

Mike Bonelli [17:51 - 17:51]: Well, I think. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:51 - 17:52]: I think. 

Mike Bonelli [17:53 - 19:16]: I think the key, too, is we circle back on this a lot like that. One of your roles as a leader, as a coach, is to develop all these leaders, right? And develop the skills that can take. And I think, Matt, maybe, you know, you could say it right? I mean, you. You get to the AHL and the NHL, every guy in your team was probably a captain of their team, right? So. So, I mean, imagine how much you have to separate yourself from the fact that everyone was the best player in their organization and their team, and now they're all together, and then it's like fighting to be the leader, which is actually a good thing. Right. I think once you at 10 or 11 and 12, I don't know if anybody's equipped with saying, hey, you're gonna lead this team. And, and, you know, we're at a disadvantage, right, as coaches because we're. We don't even know if they're equipped to do that. And. And we don't know if we're limiting somebody else from being able to get. And elevate themselves to that. Right. By saying, here's who you are. We're going to kind of define you at 11 years old and 12 years old. It's kind of hard. So I like the fact that you're not, you know, certainly giving a letter out and saying, okay, we're. We're going to make you our captain. But I think knowing, you know, watching you up close and seeing your kids, you're developing, you know, all those players with leadership qualities, and I think that's probably more important than any letter that you can give. 

Matt Moulson [19:18 - 19:54]: Yeah, I think that's a great point. I think it's, you know, I hope that we could make all the players responsible for. For trying to lead the team, and they all feel responsible to be a leader both, you know, on the ice and off the ice. And. Yeah, I think that is a good point. Maybe that's in my head as well. I don't want to, you know, give out a couple letters, and then all of a sudden, you know, the guys that aren't letters are like, well, these guys are supposed to be our leaders. They should do this, they should do that. I don't think. I just don't think they're equipped yet. So we'll see when they are. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:55 - 19:56]: You know, and the ones. 

Mike Bonelli [19:56 - 20:08]: And the ones that are. It's not going to hurt them. I mean, the ones that are equipped with it, you're not. You're not. You're not. The stifling. Their ability to be leaders. I'm sure they're still yelling and screaming and getting up and talking and doing the things they do, right? 

Matt Moulson [20:09 - 20:18]: Yeah, I mean, I've seen. I've seen it before. If you need a letter to be a leader, then you're usually a fake leader. So it doesn't. It doesn't really matter. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:19 - 22:19]: Well, I'll say this real quick, Christy. I hope I have to say this because I hope the kids and coaches and parents are listening to this conversation not to stay on letters. But I have seen. And. And I'm gonna say it right now. This is a huge no. No coaches, if you're even considering this. I have seen coaches. Mike, I know you have to bargain the leadership, bargain the letters to get people to come to their teams. Okay? Hey, if you join my team, I'll give you a letter. And I can't tell you how detrimental that is on so many levels, because, number one, you've taken something sacred and you've made it transactional. And if the kid's young enough now, he's going to see the letters as transactional of, oh, this is how I apply value to my worth on a team. That's the worst thing you can do. The second part of that, too, is, coaches, if you're doing this, what the hell are you doing? Right, Because. Because I. You've just fractured your team, whether you realize it or not. Right, because that kid's going to come in with a chip on his shoulder now that he's got a letter or she's got a letter. Don't do that. Do not bargain ship with the letters. Okay, second half of this, just real quick, is what I have found is that most parents just want you to be honest with them. Of. Look, if you want to come here, this is the type of program that I run. This is the educational side of things. This is what I plan to provide your kid to become a better hockey player. And I'm going to say it as a coach, if that's not good enough for you and your kid, no problem. I really mean that. No problem. You. You find whatever is going to work for you, okay? But you got to be true to yourself. And I'm not saying that like, there's no recruiting if you want a good player, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do that. And if you're gonna bargain ship with letters, I. I mean, what do you. What do you. A day trader? Like, that's not how this works. So I just wanted to throw that out there because, Matt, you're making some really great points here about. Let's just say how significant letters are in youth hockey. Not that it's not an honor if you get one. And I'm not saying that, you know, it shouldn't happen or it should happen, but let's. Let's put some brain power into thinking about this. Right? 

Matt Moulson [22:19 - 22:20]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:20 - 22:26]: You don't need it to be a leader. All right? So, sorry, I gotta. I'll get off the soapbox here. Christy, you had A question. I apologize. 

Christie Casciano [22:26 - 22:29]: I'm just. I'm kind of shocked to hear that. I didn't know that was going on. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:29 - 22:31]: Oh, I've seen it. I've seen it. 

Mike Bonelli [22:31 - 22:31]: Wow. 

Christie Casciano [22:31 - 22:35]: Well, here's the hockey mob coming out of me. Shame on any coach does that. 

Mike Bonelli [22:35 - 22:36]: Shame on you. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:36 - 22:36]: It's so good. 

Christie Casciano [22:37 - 22:38]: There we go. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:38 - 22:45]: And then Christy too. I've seen teams with four or five A's and it's just like, what are you doing? Half the team has a letter. 

Christie Casciano [22:46 - 22:58]: That's crazy. That's nuts. Matt, I want to hear about your kids book. Tell us all about it. What inspired you to write it and what's the lesson? What's that? I'm sure there's a message in there. 

Matt Moulson [22:59 - 24:48]: So it's actually written by Greg Presco, who's a father on our team. We've actually become really, really good friends. It kind of started, I mean, he's on the train at 4 in the morning every. Every morning to the city to work at his bank. So he would fire questions at me for probably two years, three years straight. At 4 in the morning, I'd wake up to probably 20 questions. That's a friend all about, like, what I did. It first started with him kind of investigating, you know, he's big into youth hockey, loves to help kids and anything he can do to help them develop to be great athletes and humans. And he would kind of ask me questions, all sorts of questions from my childhood to NHL. And eventually he was like, you know what? We should write a book. So he, he kind of took that on and we kind of went through my entire, I guess, hockey career from, from childhood. And he did it. I think he did a great job. But I think it was, yeah, it was more of an example to show, you know, this day and age, show adversity and overcoming adversity, not just giving up. And as Lee said, switching teams every year or whatever it was, you know, it was faced with some real hard truths and coming out the other side with, with grit and determination. And I think he did a great job with the book. So that was, you know, it just encompasses kind of everything, everything I went through and hopefully the kids like it. 

Christie Casciano [24:49 - 25:00]: And now I get the title. That makes sense. Matt Moe's Grit Pile. That's cool. I'm like, what is that all about, Sal? I get it. That's so cool. 

Matt Moulson [25:01 - 25:27]: Yeah, it's all about. Yeah, he came up with this grit pile kind of thing where every day you're adding to your grit pile, whether it's, you know, Schoolwork, nutrition, what have you. Just staying diligent on things you love. I think it's a lot about finding your passion, too. If you're passionate about something, then, you know, this is the type of work ethic you have to put into it. 

Christie Casciano [25:27 - 25:28]: That's awesome. 

Mike Bonelli [25:29 - 26:55]: We're gonna get Greg on here sometime. Great. So Greg played for me growing up and in high school, and I think, you know, he didn't play in the NHL. But I think to Matt's point, I mean, he's. He's a. He's asking questions all the time. I mean, he's a. He's a guy at the time, a kid, right, that kind of had his own grit. Right. Had to have his own adversity, had to fight through. And he was a goalie, Matt, So that. I don't know if that is a knock against him, but we'll just say you probably have to. He has to have a little bit more added to his grit pile just because of the adversity he felt, you know, in the net. But I think, you know, you're absolutely right. I mean, I think we talk a lot on our show about, you know, the regions, the different regions that we're in, and I think, you know, are we, you know, this region, the Northeast. I don't know if. I don't know. Can you define a little bit more about, you know, what. You know, the definition of what you guys feel. Grit is. Because it could be different things for different regions. Right. Like, in some places, grid is. I mean, we remember talking like, Tommy Laidlaw, and grit for him was, you know, getting up in the morning and working on the farm and trying to find ways to, you know, train, even though he had to work every day, or, you know, different guys that had to do different things. You know, our kids aren't getting up in the Northeast, most of them, and, you know, shoveling and. And doing the work that. So can you define a little bit about, you know, what you present to your players as grit and what they're overcoming? 

Matt Moulson [26:57 - 28:23]: Well, actually, this is a hat Greg made for me. So when you look in the mirror, it says. Says it correctly, but it says find a way in the mirror. I think that's. That's definitely a saying that I think we use is like, find a way. I think, uh, obviously we're fortunate to live where we are. A lot of the families are doing well, but I think it's finding a way. I think too often we like to come up with excuses why. Why something happened to us, but the Reality is, you know, maybe we're just not good enough, and that's fine. I don't think that. Something wrong with that. Then we have to find a way to, you know, improve what we want to do to be better, if we want to be a better hockey player. Okay? Now we have to find. Find a way to improve ourselves as a hockey player. It's not. It's not like, oh, this coach doesn't like me. He cut me. He doesn't know what he's talking about. It's like, okay, why do you cut me? And let's face. Let's. Let's face honest truth here, and let's not complain about it. Let's find a way to. To figure this out. I think, you know, that's. I think that's a big part about the grit is. Is trying to find a way. You want to be great at something. Okay, let's find a way to be great. And nothing. I don't think anyone can become great at something with. With mediocre, Mediocre work. So finding a way is a. A big thing for us. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:24 - 28:34]: I. I love it, Matt. You know, I want to. I want to keep turning this to youth hockey here. Funny enough, you and I are the same age. Actually, we're only separated by a few days, which I. I thought was really funny. 

Matt Moulson [28:34 - 28:35]: Oh, there we. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:35 - 30:10]: Yeah. Well, the reason I'm bringing that up is because I know we grew up at the same time in kind of the same era. And I always tell the parents today for their kids that when you and I were growing up, there were not a lot of training aids available yet. They were kind of just starting to arrive. But the truth is this. We had to go on the street. We had to go play. As you just said, you had to find a way to practice. And what blows my mind today is when I hear of. I just. I don't have this thing. I don't have that thing, buddy. It's like. It's like you don't need any of these. These things. And I'm not against training aids in any way. I think it's the coolest time to be a young hockey player now because there's really nothing holding you back from playing. But it's the mindset that I find sometimes that might be lacking a little bit. And that brings me to the next question. I did lead you a little bit here, but the biggest adversities. We talked about this earlier, that kids are facing in youth hockey. What are the biggest challenges? And again, I just bring up our Youth because we had challenges. The era before us had challenges. And you just said it, you have to find a way to practice. And I always subscribed to the thought process that, and my dad told me this when I was a kid. As hard as you're working, someone's working harder. And, man, did that motivate me to get outside and shoot pucks. I remember going to the hardware store and getting a piece of sheet metal to shoot off of. There were no shooting pads back then. You had to figure it out. So keeping in mind your upbringing and today, what are the biggest adversities? What are the things we can do differently? Tell the parents, drop the knowledge. Tell the coaches. Let them know. 

Matt Moulson [30:11 - 33:30]: Well, I think we're in. My biggest thing I see is there is absolutely no lack of resources. We have almost too much resources. You know, back when we were playing, I think especially Mississauga, we, they're all city owned rinks. They closed, they take the ice out in the summer. We play box lacrosse. So we didn't even skate for, I don't know, six to eight weeks. So we have the, we definitely have the resources, especially in Connecticut. But you know, one thing I, I think these, I mean, these kids, obviously in kind of the screen time era, they watch all the highlights, but none of these guys watch the full game and watch, watch players play off the puck, watch what they're doing defensively off the puck. It's all highlights. And usually guys have the puck in the highlights. So they're watching these guys do all these moves and they never truly develop, you know, that hockey mind for the game because they're only watching highlights and not watching, you know, they see Dry Seidel score a goal and this unbelievable play by McDavid. But they're not watching the 10 seconds before as Draisaitl is getting into this great spot off the puck and timing it perfectly. So I think that's, you know, that's, that's a, that's a huge thing. And I think when I go back to, you know, the adversity thing, there's a, you know, parents around here do have a lot of money. So when something or someone tells them something about their child, you're usually wrong if you say it because they've never been told no before, haven't been cut before for, because they can afford to be on these teams. And then their kids, their kids hear them talk like that. They hear, they hear them kind of making excuses rather than, you know, I know a pivotal, pivotal time in my life, my best Friend, my best friend, Ryan Del Monte. His dad coached me for I think six or seven years. And one. One year, I remember we lived on the same street. We were best. We're still best friends. We've been friends since we were 4. His dad called me and. Me and my dad over to the house and I got cut. He wanted to do it in person because we were so close. I mean, I slept over at their house three times a week. And I remember coming out of that and I thought my dad was going to say, like, oh, you know, he's, he's not right. But he's like, you know what? He's right. You gotta be better. We gotta. And that's kind of when we started looking into work out and extra skating lessons and things like that. So I think being brutally honest about things and not taking a slight bump in the road as complete failure and the hockey IQ thing, watching more complete games of the best players in the world, playing in the NHL, watching an entire game and focusing on uncertain players because that's what we had to do growing up. There was no. There was the leaf. It'd be Saturday night hockey Canada. That's a. I'd watch both games until I fell asleep. Usually the east coast and the west coast game. Hockey night in Canada. And that's. I'd follow around my favorite player, Wendell Clark, and see what he did off the puck. Obviously Dougie Gilmer got there, so I'd watch him too. But that's what you had to do. 

Mike Bonelli [33:32 - 35:02]: Yeah. I just want to ask you a question, Matt, because you're in a unique situation. And I think a lot of guys that have played pro hockey and have elevated themselves to be able to coach youth hockey with their kids and, and then have the influence of, you know, what you can do with other people's kids. Right. So, you know, you're, you're the benefit that you want to give your child, you obviously can give another 15, 20 kids, you know, in your ecosystem. Just. Can you talk a little bit about the need for. Or. And maybe this is not even true, but having the opportunity to work with kids for multiple years and stringing together this ability to learn for them to learn you and you to learn them, as opposed to the six months, I'm not happy, I'm out of here, I'm done kind of mentality that we, that we seem to be going, you know, the route we're going into now, how different that is. You just talked about, you played for the same coach for six years and he was able to say definitively, I know we can't put you on this team because of this, this, this, and this, like. And I don't think our kids get that. I don't think our families get that opportunity because most of them don't even know why they got cut. They just got cut because another kid was better, but they don't know why or. Or why didn't the coach that picked me in the first place in less than five months feel that I wasn't good enough anymore? So can you just talk a little bit about the, you know, the. The benefits of having players for longer periods of time that benefits both the coach and the player and the family. 

Matt Moulson [35:04 - 36:08]: Yeah. So I've been very fortunate to coach with my. My wife's youngest brother, Brett Bachman. We've coached every year together, so obviously we've come very close. I think working. Working with kids over multiple years, you know, as a coach, you're looking to build on things, and if you have too many new players every year, you're starting over with the concepts. And I think the biggest thing is the culture. I think, you know, developing a great culture for these kids to come to the rink. A great culture for the parents off the rink is, in my opinion, more important than teaching them any skill. So I think it's just that culture that you're able to develop. Kids understand it, and the kids that don't want to be part of that culture, obviously you can get rid of them. So I think that's. That's the biggest benefit is developing a consistent, good culture year after year. 

Lee MJ Elias [36:09 - 37:29]: You know, I think one of the things in youth hockey we don't focus on enough, Matt, that you're tapping on is just environment. Right. I think it's real easy to forget that part of this journey in the youth aspect. You know, the hockey, obviously, is a big part of it, but just being on a team with other people and learning how to deal with that, learning how to get through problems together. Winning and losing, all of it. You know, I. I do think sometimes there's a misconception. I see this of, well, we're supposed to win. Teams are supposed to win. That's not, you know, you want to win. I mean, don't get me wrong, I want every team my kids are on to win, but the reality is only one team is going to win the whole thing at the end of the year, and there's like 6 billion teams, so the odds are not in your favor. I always say that the wins in youth hockey are vast. You can't limit it to a tournament win or a regional or a national win. It's did your kid develop, did your kid develop some social skills? Right. What adversity are there they facing? I and I again, good coaches do this and you just said it. Invest some time into that because here's the funny thing about it, that actually ends up breeding wins on the ice as well. Right. But we don't spend enough time on environment and culture. Right. Let me ask you in this way. What percentage of time do you think coaches should be spending on that or. 

Matt Moulson [37:29 - 39:31]: Thinking about that more than the skill session? I think, yeah, I, I just think, I mean I touched a bit on it before like leadership and making everyone feel important. I think that's, you know, Greg used to keep stats for us. I think we had, our stats were like forecheck, back check block shots and they were, they were, they were, they were worth the same as, as a goal and assist. And then, you know, we'd usually give out a belt after the game for, for someone who kind of was, it was like the gritty player of the game. And I think, you know, that's important for other kids, the kids that are scoring, you know, goals regularly to see that they're not winning these games just because they're scoring goals. They're winning these games because there's other kids on the team that you know, maybe not aren't the best goal scorers and they're fine with that and they're sacrificing in different ways, which is the only way any team wins. And I think the only time I really get mad, you know, I get mad at mistakes every now and then. But I think that's just, you know, me expecting a high expectation. But that doesn't really bother me. I think it's more of the. When the culture is not right. Like our, our kids are not defending each other or something like that. These are important things that I think are they need for, for down the road if they want to play hockey going forward is which I think we, we do a good job, my brother in law, Brett and I of telling them this isn't just for now, this is for your entire life and hockey and off the ice and working in a team and you know, you don't necessarily have to be best friends but you have to be close and it's a brotherhood and there's going to be debates and fights just like in a normal family. But this is, this is how you have to be successful. So that, that culture, you know, we're we're always trying to influence that. 

Christie Casciano [39:31 - 39:47]: Yeah, I like what you did, especially recognizing the hardest working player. One of our coaches, who I absolutely adored, had a construction helmet, and it was whoever worked the hardest, the hard hat. Right, Got that. It wasn't whoever scored the goals, right? 

Matt Moulson [39:48 - 39:48]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [39:48 - 40:07]: It wasn't whoever scored the most goals. It was the grittiest player, the one who hustled the most, the one who, you know, set the other players up for goals. Yeah. So I love that concept. It's fantastic. I'm just curious, are, do your kids play hockey and how do you approach hockey in your family? 

Matt Moulson [40:10 - 40:22]: So my. My son, who I coach, he plays. She's field hockey and. Yeah, she's field hockey in. In volleyball. I don't know why. She never really got into hockey, but. 

Christie Casciano [40:22 - 40:23]: Not in ice hockey. 

Matt Moulson [40:23 - 40:33]: She was kind of doing. She. No, she was doing dance when she was younger and I don't know, she loves field hockey and volleyball now, so. And studious. So. 

Christie Casciano [40:33 - 40:34]: Okay. 

Matt Moulson [40:34 - 40:35]: And you didn't try to. 

Christie Casciano [40:35 - 40:38]: To influence her to play? 

Matt Moulson [40:39 - 41:00]: No, she. I don't. We never. Yeah, she never really played any sticks or anything. And then my son, when he was born, he was just around. He just had a stick in his hand since he could walk. So he's. We're like, all right. He actually hated skating to start, but really, that he. I mean, obviously kill you when he. 

Christie Casciano [41:00 - 41:01]: He said, dad, I hate skating. 

Matt Moulson [41:02 - 41:59]: Oh, absolutely. Oh, Chrissy, absolutely. I think it's. He used to not want to go on the ice, and we had some heated conversations at the time because I knew he wanted to. But, yeah, we. We had some heated conversations. So we still do now. I coach them now and we. We'll get into it every now and then, but we. We laugh about it ever after. I think we. We. I had a talk with them before I started coaching them, and I said, listen, I'm going to be hard on you, but I. But once we're in. Usually once we're in the car after a game, after I've coached, I'll give them one thing that I saw or that kind of ticked me off, and then we kind of drop it. So we. Our relationship doesn't. We don't really talk about it after that. Our relationship goes back to normal. He puts on his songs in the car and we're ready to go. So, yeah, we've done a good job separating coach and dad, and that's not easy. 

Christie Casciano [41:59 - 42:14]: And a lot of our audience or a lot of dads out there listening now who coach their kids because you step up, you volunteer to coach the team and chances are it's because you got a kid on the team. It's a delicate balance, isn't it? 

Matt Moulson [42:14 - 42:36]: Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, I'm, I'm four years into coaching him and it's, I'm still figuring it out. So it's definitely not perfected yet. He'll tell you, he'll tell you that he reminds me every now and then, but. Yeah, yeah. Still, we're still always trying to build our, make our relationship the best it can be as a coach and a father. So we're always working at that. 

Mike Bonelli [42:36 - 42:39]: I've done it for 17 years and I still haven't gotten it right. 

Matt Moulson [42:41 - 42:45]: Yeah, I don't think I'm ever gonna, I don't think I'm ever gonna. Ever perfected. 

Mike Bonelli [42:45 - 43:49]: And then, and then that now. And you talk about your, your brother in law in Backman. His dad definitely hasn't gotten it right, but he's a tough guy too, you know, So I think, I think it's tough, it's tough to coach your kids. There's no doubt about it. And I think you, you know, this show, leave it to say it too, right, that you know, you try to learn. I mean, one of the great things about being on a show like this is you, you learn from so many different people and then is that there is a little voice in the back of your head that keeps you. I think for me, like, keeps bringing me back to the middle and me back to the. Don't talk to the kids in the car. Back to. Don't worry if they don't want to go to practice today. It's not the end of the world. Like, it's just like, you know, like, oh, this weekend tournament didn't really mean that much. Nobody's quitting hockey for the rest of their life. So I think it's just a matter. It's, it's. It really is. But you know, on the other side of that, Christie is having a guy like Matt and Backman and these other guys co and preso. Having the opportunity for other parents to have these guys be on the bench is, is I don't think people can appreciate how beneficial it is to all the other kids and how hard it is for the person that has their own kid on the team. I think everybody thinks, oh, he's putting his kid on the team because he's going to get the most ice time. 

Christie Casciano [43:50 - 43:50]: Exactly. 

Mike Bonelli [43:50 - 44:05]: And it's the hardest thing to do. It's so much easier to sit up in the stands and just watch. And about the coach, I mean, it's an easier. It's an easier position, and it's hard. It's very difficult. But I think the kids and the parents should really be appreciative of. Of the opportunity. 

Christie Casciano [44:05 - 44:05]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [44:05 - 45:15]: I'll say this too, Mike, to your point, Christy and Mike, I don't know if you realize this. We've done almost 400 episodes of the show. And what's, what's interesting is that. And Matt, you know, I'm the youngest parent, right? My Kids are now 11 and 8, but when we started the show, they were like 5 or 6. The oldest was. And you know, I have been such this great beneficiary of 400 episodes of knowledge from, from these two, but also from. From all the guests that we've had. And, and to Mike's point, even with that knowledge, and I'm gonna say it again, I've benefited greatly from being on this show. There's still so much that comes up that you just don't. You don't know to expect. You don't know what to deal with. And that's actually going to segue in. And at least my final question, Matt, is that you're in an interesting position. You went through youth hockey, you went through collegiate hockey, you played in the NHL, now you're a dad. So what was the most surprising or you can. It might be multiple things surprising things in your return to the rink as a father. Right. What were you not expecting? Or what was that thing that you realized? Like, oh, man, I put my parents through this too. Right? Like what. What was that biggest realization for you? 

Matt Moulson [45:20 - 45:27]: Before I answer, I gotta add to Mike, Jonathan Quicks are our goalie coach too. So we got him. Yeah, right. 

Mike Bonelli [45:27 - 45:30]: I mean, you got an all team. You got an all star team. 

Lee MJ Elias [45:30 - 45:31]: Wow. 

Christie Casciano [45:31 - 45:33]: Wow. I'm sending kids. 

Lee MJ Elias [45:33 - 45:36]: No name dropping, by the way, Matt. Geez, that's not. 

Matt Moulson [45:39 - 46:28]: We have three Stanley Cups between us. Oh, my God, he's got them all. But no, I think as a co. I think as a parent, I said, I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to push my kid hard, you know, help him push himself hard and just let him have fun. And I think I get more fired up as a coach, parent sometimes than I did ever did as a player. I think it's trying to relax sometimes. Like, all right, you know, this is one tournament at 11 years old. It means nothing to their overall development. So sometimes I gotta get a little less heated. And I think quickie probably will say the same. We had him on the bench for a tournament last year. I almost got kicked out of the game for getting so heated up. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:28 - 46:30]: But imagine being that. Right. 

Matt Moulson [46:33 - 47:46]: I think it's just calming yourself down, like, not getting, like. It's such a long journey. And I, you know, even myself, who tells myself that all the time, that it's a long journey for my son. He's got. There's so much time. I mean, he hasn't even close to puberty yet, so clearly a lot of time. Even I get caught up in the moment and. And have to kind of step back every now and then. I think a lot of times all of us do that. We probably get caught up in the moment. Like, this is so important, whatever. And it most likely means nothing. It will make no difference. I mean, there are some important things that happen, but usually there's, you know, it's not never the end of the world, especially when they're this young. So, I mean, even when they're older, I think, you know, things. I played double A when I was 16 years old, and I'm sure a lot of people didn't think I'd ever play at Cornell or in the NHL. So it's just trying to. Trying to. To look at the big picture and not be so crazy about some things that happened in the moment. 

Lee MJ Elias [47:47 - 48:34]: Yeah. And in the context, keeping it in context, of youth sports and sports in general. I'm not talking broadly life so much right now. Even if it is a big moment, it's just a moment. Right. And it's like, there really are very, very few, if any, moments where everything hinges on that moment. Because the truth is this. And don't get me wrong, there are crossroad moments. But you said it, too, Matt, earlier. If you're resourceful enough, you'll actually keep creating those moments for yourself. Right. It's just highly unlikely there's going to be one, that your whole life is going to change if you get this one wrong. Right. And again, if. If you are in that position, it's still just the moment. Right. You got to find a way to navigate your life. I also. I also wrote down here, too. Oh, go ahead, Matt. My bad. 

Matt Moulson [48:35 - 49:08]: I was gonna say. I was just gonna say, reminded me of, like, Kobe Bryant used to always say the games were just a learning tool for him that he didn't. I mean, that's all they were. You would learn from them. And I think when you say that, it's like, all right, we lost this game, and everyone's all upset. But all it is is a learning tool for you, right? Going forward, experiencing that, whether it was a mistake or a great game, just learning from that, instead of putting so much emphasis on this big moment, it's just another learning moment. That's it. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:08 - 50:20]: I just, I just wrote this down. It's a great segue that if you really love something, this isn't just hockey, but let, well, use hockey. If you really love the game and you want to learn about the game, this is, this is the truth. Your body will quit before your mind. In terms of the long term. Like, your body's the thing that ends up when you're 40, 45, not being able to do what you want to do. The learning actually never stops. Right. That was one of the things that astounded me as I was getting older, is, wow, I'm still learning. I'm not even playing as much as I used to, and I'm still learning as a coach today. I'm still learning. The learning part of it never stops. That kind of is eternal. Right? So I think that especially for youth players and parents, the more you can get a grip on that side of things, that the learning is actually insanely important. Right. Because at some point, your body physically won't be able to do this to the level you want it to do it, but your brain won't stop. Right. So I just, I think that's a fascinating thing to realize. Right. You need to build your body up. Don't get me wrong. And you got to build that. But, but the mind part of it is, Is somewhat eternal unless you lose interest. Right. Which, which happens too. Right. I just. 

Matt Moulson [50:20 - 50:20]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:20 - 50:25]: I think it's a fascinating thought. All right. 

Matt Moulson [50:25 - 50:25]: Definitely. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:25 - 50:42]: So, listen, I gotta ask you this. I, I, we always do this rapid fire at the end of our episode, and I'm going to tell our whole audience this. Christie and Mike, for some reason, I did not put that in our rundown today, so you guys cannot see them, but I'm looking at them. So I want to apologize because it's Christie's favorite part of the show. 

Christie Casciano [50:42 - 50:44]: It's my favorite part of the show. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:44 - 50:51]: I let you down, Christy, but I did not get them to you. But, Matt, I'm gonna. Christy, with your permission, I'll just ask them, because I'm looking at it. 

Christie Casciano [50:51 - 50:52]: Wait, I've got one, though. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:52 - 50:56]: Oh, perfect. Christy Casciano Burns with a rapid fire question. Here we go. 

Christie Casciano [50:56 - 50:57]: Don't deny me. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:57 - 50:58]: I would never. 

Christie Casciano [50:59 - 51:01]: Of my favorite moment of the show. 

Matt Moulson [51:01 - 51:02]: All right. 

Christie Casciano [51:02 - 51:06]: Rapid fire. So it's what? 30 seconds or less for the answer? 

Lee MJ Elias [51:06 - 51:07]: Yeah, let's. Let's. 

Mike Bonelli [51:07 - 51:07]: Yes. 

Lee MJ Elias [51:07 - 51:08]: Yes. 

Christie Casciano [51:08 - 51:12]: Are you ready for this rapid fire round, Matt? Here we go. 

Matt Moulson [51:13 - 51:14]: Ready to go. 

Christie Casciano [51:14 - 51:20]: Looking back at your NHL career, what was your favorite moment? The moment that stands out the most. Go. 

Matt Moulson [51:24 - 51:39]: Scoring my first goal versus San Jose Sharks. Good answer. Moment. I've been waiting my whole life for that moment. And it was the first. It was my first game, first goal. I couldn't have smiled any bigger. 

Christie Casciano [51:40 - 51:41]: Yeah, I could see that. 

Lee MJ Elias [51:41 - 51:42]: I thought he was. 

Matt Moulson [51:43 - 51:44]: I want one. 

Mike Bonelli [51:44 - 51:44]: I want. 

Lee MJ Elias [51:44 - 51:47]: Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Go, Fidelli. 

Mike Bonelli [51:48 - 51:53]: So, Maddie, when you sign your first. And when you sign your first NHL contract, who was the first person you called? 

Matt Moulson [51:57 - 52:24]: My dad. I signed it. Chris, you appreciate this. I had no team because I got drafted by Pittsburgh, but they didn't want me. So I. My agent called me as I was driving to Cornell to go skate with those guys because I had no team to play for yet. And it was la, and I signed with LA and played in the rookie camp, I think, like, week. Next. The next week. So that was an amazing moment. 

Christie Casciano [52:25 - 52:25]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [52:25 - 52:49]: Well, I'll tell the audience before we get to the last one. Christie and Mike are seasoned bits because those are two questions on the list, which is pretty cool. Yes. I knew you wouldn't let us down with that. You guys are pros. All right, this. This next one, the last one, this is a funny one for you. Okay? And let me favorite arena you ever played in, because I doubt it's Nassau Coliseum. All right? So I'm saying that because it says you can't use a home. 

Matt Moulson [52:49 - 53:15]: Like. Okay, okay. That was definitely the loudest. That playoff game, Game three was the loudest by far, other than Lina. Favorite. I mean, I love. I always love going to Toronto, but my parents are actually from Montreal and all my relatives were there, and that place is just unbelievable to plans. So I'm gonna say Montreal. 

Christie Casciano [53:15 - 53:16]: Okay. 

Lee MJ Elias [53:16 - 53:20]: It's always a good answer. Yeah, that was always a good answer. 

Christie Casciano [53:20 - 53:22]: You can't beat arena, though. 

Matt Moulson [53:23 - 53:27]: I can't bring lighter. Good old Barn. 

Lee MJ Elias [53:27 - 53:39]: Matt. This has been a great episode. For those of you listening, Matt's gonna join us on the ride of the rink for your kids this week that's coming up this Tuesday. But, Matt, you did it. You made it through the main episode of Our Kids Play Hockey Today. Thank you so much for joining us. 

Mike Bonelli [53:40 - 53:47]: You know, Matt, Matt, real quick, Matt, real quick. Where can we get Grick Pyle? And. And how can we find the book? 

Matt Moulson [53:50 - 53:53]: It's a good question. I think it's gritpowered kids.com with this. 

Mike Bonelli [53:54 - 53:55]: Called call Greg Presso. 

Christie Casciano [53:56 - 53:57]: Is that is it on am. 

Matt Moulson [54:01 - 54:01]: I think it's on Amazon. 

Lee MJ Elias [54:02 - 54:11]: Let me, let me go into my my advertisement. If you do a quick search online on the Google, you too can find the book Matt Moe's Grit Pile for your your readership. 

Christie Casciano [54:12 - 54:14]: I definitely want to order that. That sounds fabulous. 

Lee MJ Elias [54:15 - 54:17]: Yeah, it's a memorable enough name that I memorized. 

Matt Moulson [54:17 - 54:26]: I just love the title and it has great illustrations as well by Annika. So excellent. It's good little. Good little. Ready? 

Lee MJ Elias [54:26 - 55:30]: We're fans of children's books here, but listen, that's going to do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Remember, you can email us team@our kidsplayhockey.com at any point if you have a question, a comment, a thought, you agree, you disagree, wherever you're at on the hockey journey, send us a message and remember to you can text us directly. Make sure you leave your name and who you are so we know how to contact you at the description of this episode. There's going to be a little link tap on that and you got direct access to the team here. But that's going to do it for this episode. For Christy Cash, Anna Burns, Mike Benelli and Matt Molson, I'm Lee Elias. We'll see you on the next episode of Our Kids Play Hockey Skate on everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kids playhockey.com also make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops at When Hockey Stop. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.