How to Find Your Players' Process with Scott Kelsey

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Hey everybody, here's your quick little 30-second uh what you're about to hear today. We've got a great guest today. Uh Scott Kelsey is here, uh professional hockey player, and today he runs uh several organizations working in the mental health aspect of sports. But we have a great conversation today, really about youth hockey and the conversations you can have with your kids, at youth hockey conversations you should have with yourself in youth hockey, and really the process, especially in that kind of 12-down age group. We talk about both, but things you can look out for to kind of not if you're doing it right, but just things to look out for to maybe continue on the journey and see that pathway, the journey of hockey is the whole thing and not just the destination that you're trying to get to. We also talk about how Scott completely pivoted his life after a massive brain injury in 2018 and how he gives back now to athletes and other people by sharing his story and how uh creating communities has really been a great uh pathway for not just him, but other people involved to kind of find a pathway through what they're dealing with in their lives. So really powerful episode. Um and again, look, if you want to support us or support the show, aside from listening, which we really do appreciate, uh head over to ourkidsplayhockey.com. Check out the uh shop now uh button there that's right at the top of the page. We got a lot of deals on there with uh several companies uh that we put together for you to support you, supports us, um, just trying to help whoever we can. So again, that's ourkidsplayhockey.com. Check it out there. We got a little bit of a store on the front page. Uh, if you want our kids play hockey merchandise, let us know somehow and we'll start making that. But without further ado, let's get you in the episode with Scott Kelsey. Mike Benelli and I on Our Kids Play Hockey. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Le Elias and joined as always by Mike Benelli. Christy Cassiano Burns is on assignment tonight. But our guest today, Scott Kelsey, is a former collegiate and professional hockey player who played over 350 games as a defenseman in the ECHL, CHL, and UHL. And after moving on from hockey, Scott successfully transitioned to a career in the mortgage industry, working with some of the nation's top mortgage companies. But Scott's story pivoted dramatically in 2018 after suffering a traumatic brain injury. And his focus was shifted greatly towards mental health and taking action to create and be involved with several projects, included but not limited to Cheropee, Edge for Athletes, and the Ranch Teammates for Life. And you'll remember we just interviewed Clint Millarchuk from that organization as well. And the idea is to connect people and to inspire people to use athletics as a way to better their lives outside of sports. Scott is still active in the game today. This is going to be a very good hockey episode as well. He's coaching youth hockey in Princeton, New Jersey. He's also a very proud father, one of us, to two children, seven-year-old Greta, who's playing 8U hockey, and four-year-old Alex, who, as Scott puts it, is playing with trucks right now, but is projected to be skating at some point in the near future. Scott, welcome to our kids play hockey.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Thanks, Lee and uh Mike for having me on. Um, incredible introduction. I might just uh copy that if you don't mind and use that for all future references. So great. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

We provide a lot. If I can I will send you the intro written out, you can put that however you want. You just got to update the kids' ages as the years go by. But no, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

When you do your next parent meeting, that could be just your opening, opening monologue right there.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Just have just play that for your next agreed, or I can or Lee can drive over. He's he's right down the road. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

I'm I'm club. Well, we'll do it in a really sort of Scott Kelsey has been serving mankind for years. No, um, Scott, so listen, I want to jump into the hockey side of your life quick. Uh, we know you hail from New York. You played for Hamilton College uh before several professional teams uh in leagues, to be honest with you, that it it uh you have to be a work host to work horse, excuse me, to survive those leagues. So I'm not asking you for your whole life bio here, but can you tell us the moment or the moments in your life when you knew that hockey was going to be something you wanted to pursue?

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Oh, that's a great question. Um, yeah, I was fortunate enough to grow up in uh, you know, a small town in upstate New York Clinton that has a pretty rich hockey tradition. And uh, although my my parents, uh my dad, you know, my dad was a basketball player and uh and a good baseball player in high school. So they really didn't have, outside of being fans of uh the Clinton Comets that were up there, the old EHL team, they didn't have much exposure to the game. So um, you know, early on, without going into too much detail, my brother heard something on the announcement at school about playing hockey. We got involved. I think I was probably six or seven uh at the time. So uh, you know, my parents were very supportive and always been supportive. So they, you know, bought us a gear, you know, put us on the ice, and that kind of started our hockey journey. So um, you know, had the fortune of uh playing for some really good coaches up there. A lot of the guys that had skated in that minor league had stayed around town. Um so very rich hockey tradition. I think, you know, we had a lot of success in in youth, right? Uh New York's a pretty good uh powerhouse in terms of um, you know, uh youth hockey, high school hockey, um, obviously has a fair share of good college teams as well. So I really think like uh, you know, if I look back at it, probably, you know, Pee-wee banner age, you know, right when you're starting to get, you know, kind of thinking about if you're gonna play high school. Um, and and then going into high school. Uh I had writ some pretty good success in in youth sports, playing with some good teams, traveling all over, you know, uh the Northeast at the time, sometimes to to international tournaments and and across the border and stuff. But um I think uh, you know, there was one point, and now that I think about it, is I got cut, uh, I didn't make it freshman year. And this isn't a Michael Jordan story. Like sitting there and shot 58 bucks into a, you know, uh a uh washer and dryer like Sid Crosby. But um it just uh it probably at the time shocked me, right? Like it was the first time that I had a little bit of uh a little bit of reality that geez, maybe you're not good enough. And you know, uh I think my parents probably instilled in me that kind of a, hey, give it another try next year, and you know, still played some pretty good youth hockey. And then after that, my my sophomore year made the team, had some pretty good success there, and then and then just climbed a little bit more in terms of that success ladder in terms of just being part of good teams and being a pretty uh, I think a pretty instrumental instrumental part of those teams. Um, you know, got my eyes and and head thinking about college hockey. So and then um, and then from there, it's probably about that that age probably stopped when you were in high school or early. It's like, geez, you know what? Not only can I potentially continue to play, um, but maybe, you know, somebody will, you know, pay my way to college for me to do so. So I would say probably in those mid-teen years is where I really kind of thought, hey, there might be something to this game outside of just youth sports.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

So this is fascinating. And how old were you when you said you started?

SPEAKER_00 8:09

I would say six, the youngest. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Yeah. So the reason I asked that is this is that uh I I love the way you described that because it was this journey of discovery from six to really sixteen, the way you said it. And I'm also saying sixteen, it just sounds better than 18 when I say six. But the point is this you know, one of the things that we don't see today is that explanation because there's so much social media, there's so much out there about making it and college and pro that I don't even know if we're allowing our kids to discover the journey of exploring the game as a possibility, right? It's almost from moment one, well, there's the destination, and I don't think that's how it works. And again, you I've heard similar stories, Scott. Uh, from actually reading Mike Uruzzoni's book, right? You sound just like him. Like, I didn't even know if I was gonna be good enough to make it. And then here you are, you played 350 plus games of professional hockey. Um, and again, for everybody listening, if you play one game of professional hockey, you're pretty darn good. All right, it doesn't really matter. Mike and I talk about this all the time with like NHL players where kids go, that guy sucks. And it's like, no, that guy's the best hockey player you've ever played with if you get on the ice with that guy, right? So I just wanted to emphasize that that this was a journey of discovery, that there are moments along the journey, some of them painful, that allowed you to realize, wow, this is something I want to pursue. We will get to kind of the later part of your life where you have some other discoveries later in the episode, but I think that that's that's just a really important thing to bring up.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Um, Scott, real quick, like, where was like I'm I'm I'm assuming um you get cut, uh you're you think you're a pretty good hockey player. And I'm assuming mom and dad didn't, you know, the first thing they didn't do is blast off, you know, going to the coach and screaming and yelling and saying how you know it was their fault that you didn't make the team. So what you know, just maybe a little bit right there, you know, in your experience, and even now that you're in kind of the youth hockey world as well, but just that ability, like Lee was saying, to kind of find that uh motivation yourself, like to just to somebody to say, hey, listen, you be accountable, you want to get better, you've got to work, and you've got to do it. Like I can't do this for you. I think you know, back when you played, and and certainly when I played, like I didn't have the option to look on YouTube and and get private lesson instructors.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

I'm in that group too, Mike. I'm not that young. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

I just I didn't want to, I didn't want to age you. I didn't want to age you, but sorry, go ahead. But I just but I just think it's one of those things where like now like a kid doesn't make a team, and the first thing a parent does is they throw them into you know a hundred different skills camps and get a private trainer and a coach, and they don't even know if the kid wants it, like that that expert, you know, finding it the themselves, which it's which it sounds like you did.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Yeah, this is uh how long do we have here today? Because that's uh that could be a you know a week-long discussion. Six part minutes.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

We've been doing the podcast for two years, so it's it does take a long time to do that.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah, no, I think you know, you know, where I think I did benefit and you hear it a lot, and who knows? I think uh individually everybody has their own journey. And and you know, I'm not gonna sit here and and say that, hey, uh somebody was telling me, oh, you're gonna grow out of your failures and and all the stuff we hear today, which I think is true, right? You know, in terms of mistakes you make and in those times where you might not, you know, I don't know if when I was a 14, 15 year old, if I really was like, you know, reading some self-help book saying, oh, don't worry about it, you know, just learn from it and grow. I was probably angry, I was probably upset, I was probably a little embarrassed, right? And I don't know how that factored into motivating myself. You know, I wasn't climbing stairs like Rocky or, you know, shooting a million pucks, like I said. But I think one of the things, if it, if it makes sense uh in terms of that is I played other sports and I was I was probably just as good, if not better of a baseball player, um, and and you know, growing up and and through high school. And I also played football up until um, you know, it's I think junior year or high school, where I had a little bit of a knee problem in the the coaches, and it just made sense for me not to risk playing football. So I think having that, those other two, um, in terms of having other sports to lean on and and still, you know, at least have two-thirds of the year or at least half of the year taken with other sports, and then obviously having some time off during the summer, I think that that helped, right? I think, you know, there is a lot of focus as we see these days in terms of one sport athletes. And it's all over the board. I obviously depending upon who you talk to, you can you can slant it either way. You know, there is obviously proven success for kids, whether they're, you know, going through the system now in the in the development program or colleges or in the NHL that had success being a one sport athlete. But for me, my story and my experience was just that, you know, it maybe it softened the blow a little bit to be able to have those other sports to focus on and rely on with knowing that hockey was there if I wanted it. And uh obviously had the opportunity the final year and still played club club hockey and uh and just kind of you know, that helped bridge the gap in terms of maybe mentoring and and and just getting through that, you know, setback, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah, you know, uh Scott, I'm gonna jump to this question because you're alluding to it. You know I I you wrote about the importance of taking a break in sports seasons for your, and this is how you wrote it. And I I want to emphasize it, personal athletic development. So taking a break for personal athletic development. So I want to unpack that because in hockey, uh, the way hockey's built right now, there's always the next thing. There's the spring league, then the summer league, and then the pre-tryout thing, and then the tryout thing, and then the you know, it just keeps going. Um, and and naturally too, look, look, parents want to do that, kids want to be with their friends. You know, there's a lot of reasons to string you along, but it can be tough for parents and even tougher for the kids to say no, right? So, how do you approach that? How do you think we should approach that? Uh, and and again, keeping in mind, personal athletic development from breaks are important.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah, I mean, I could, you know, it's interesting because and going back a little bit in history, after I stopped playing, I I coached youth hockey for about eight to ten years everywhere from every from mites up through up through prep school. So I got a pretty good exposure, you know, post-career for me in terms of that. And uh I took a break myself, right, from coaching, you know, to try to build the career and um and just take a break. I think I needed it. I but and I don't think I think a lot of things have changed um in since then. Um, but I'm glad that I dove back into it the last year or so. Um, obviously with my daughter wanting to be involved, um, that was very random. It's not because I played hockey. She came home one day. And I think uh, you know, as a as a six-year-old, uh, if you can have a crush on a kid, she had a crush on a hockey guy. So, or a kid. So she wanted to play hockey. But I think um, you know, taking a break for me, you know, it worked for me. A lot of folks that I know it worked, you know, I think there's a lot of uh there was a lot of benefit for me playing other sports, um, you know, not only in terms of you know, skill development, you know, um, but also just just it's a long season, whether you're whether you're, you know, any season, whether it's soccer, football, lacrosse. I mean, I think a lot of a lot of time and effort's put into that season. And I think you just need to decompress. So I just remember, you know, being for really looking forward to, you know, football season getting over. So then I could strap on the hockey gear, and then hockey season getting over, so I could strap on the baseball gear. I just had excitement in all of them. And, you know, um, I it wasn't like I was, you know, way ahead of my time looking to round out my skills. It was just something that my parents felt that we needed to break, you know, and um, and and my dad being a baseball lover or a good baseball player, maybe um, you know, maybe that had something to do with it or probably did. But I think it's really hard. Like you, I you could argue both. Um, you know, for me personally, my suggestion or what what I'm gonna try to do with my kids the best I can is is just give them the space and the opportunity to explore whatever they want. Like our daughter, I've I've showed up at practice this year without my daughter with me, you know, if she has something going on and it's too much that day, you know, um, you know, I'd let her pass. But I I do try to speak with her about her commitment this year and being in a team and make her understand that, you know, other kids might, you know, miss her or, you know, it and and try to have fun with it. But I it's a really touchy subject, right? Because you can you can upset a lot of people. And I think like with everything else in life in general, if I just use the words in my experience, then how can they fault you, right? I'm talking from experience, it's my experience. You know, people are gonna make the choice to put their kids in these clinics and uh spend the time and money to do so. I I would I just would hope that my guidance would be just have a really good gauge on your kids as best as you can, right? And not worry about what you know your neighbor's kids doing or whatever the other kids are doing, and and just you know, you know, go down that path and see what happens. And if the kid, if your child um, you know, takes a particular liking to the sport, maybe throwing uh some additional stuff, you know, and see. But don't I think throwing the kid into, you know, you know, head on into full-time any sport gets a little bit risky in terms of not only development, but also their mental kind of um their mental state with anything in terms of athletics.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

I I tell you, it's it's so funny that you say that because I was just having that conversation with a couple of uh parents the other night um just about you know what they see and and what the reality is. And I think we fall into this in our new world of uh, you know, the everybody being an open book, apparently, you know, online. And I I was laughing at this one parent that posted a picture of his kids um like having some great clinic in the morning. Like it was one of those like 6 a.m., you know, get up for before, you know, posting the that it's negative eight degrees and they're they're making the trek. And I was at the rink that morning and I watched these two kids come in crying, bitching, moaning, miserable. Like I said, I didn't see any of that video on Facebook. All you know, I saw I saw the I saw the drills by the time they got out there. But it's so funny how you know, I think to your point, everybody f has to know their own kid. And if you start comparing, if you if you think you're seeing another kid's success uh online and you think it's because of something, you know, do your don't worry about them. Worry about, you know, what's your threshold? Is your is your kid can they get up at 6 a.m.? Can they stay up till 10 30 p.m.? Can they function on zero sleep? I mean, it's all about you know what your kid, and I agree with you. There are listen, there are certain kids that just uh in any sport that take to it, love it, find it, play it, excel at it, you know, or don't excel at it, just love being in there. And I think what we we can't fall into the trap that because I saw somebody online doing you you don't really know the full picture, you know, you don't really see this full story. And I I say it to you know, the guys I work with all the time. Like when you see these kids on on social media doing like the trip shots and the you know catching you know pucks in the air. And I said, you know, that's that that kid probably practiced that like 700 times. I mean, they probably missed three days of school to catch that puck. And I said, you know, just it doesn't happen the first time. And a lot of our kids go, I can't do it. I I couldn't do that. Well, you've been out for five minutes. You haven't you haven't done it. You you haven't you haven't built the foundation to where that kid is. And I I I'd say that all the time, even then when I do a lot of drills, like, oh my god, your kids are doing that that drill or that game, and it looks so great. I go, Yeah, but we're like four months in. Like that drill started with like a basic catch and pass. And now it's uh now it looks like something, right? But let's look back on how it started. You can't just implement that because you saw it. And I think that's the same thing I think you're trying to say, right? Is that uh, you know, that I'm hearing is that like you know, where wherever you can gauge your kids, gauge them, you still gotta push them. Like so the fact is the kids, you gotta say, hey, they you made a commitment, we're going, right? You know, but but maybe missing you know the school concert may might not be the time to institute, you know, your because you're because our kids are all in on a lot of things, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:09

They're not just in the you'd hope so.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

I mean one sport.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Yeah, I mean, I was just gonna say, you you'd hope so, right? And and Scott, to your point too, like, look, there's a lot of different branches to this tree in sports, there's other sports. I think it's also important to to recognize that hey, maybe your kid plays an instrument, maybe your kid uh does something outside of sport and instruments, like there's a glee club, acting, singing, I mean, whatever it is, there's a lot of different things in life at that age. Um, and yeah, you know, I think it's important too, and and we we all have we everybody I've met has a challenge with this. Uh, is you got to apply, you know, would you be able to handle this as an adult? Right? I I always like like, would I be able to handle this much of this or something as an adult? And it's like most people don't want to go to work every single day, and they do it for years. And we take vacations and we try and take breaks. And and and by the way, God bless anyone who's not, all right. You're working your butt off, maybe you're supporting your kids in this game, but it's tough for us, so it it's even harder from at least an emotional mental standpoint, I think sometimes for the kids. Um, and the other thing too, and Mike, I want I would love for you to touch on this too with Scott is that there's this irrational fear that the kid's gonna lose talent or skill if they take a few months off. Um a few things. Kid loves a sport, they'll they're not gonna lose too much, right? I mean, yes, they'll be rusty for a week. Okay, that that's gonna happen. NHL players take off time, right? From being on the ice. Uh, two is that that's not a reason to not take a break of a fear of loss of skill, right? Especially if you're playing other sports, you're gonna be well-rounded anyway. But like, that's the kind of well, if you if if he or she stops playing now, they're not gonna be ready for October. And it's like, uh, it might be okay. That is one of the benefits of having tryouts earlier, right? So, anyway, I wanted to throw that out to you too as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Yeah, Scott, you know, what I one of the things I was saying, I'd love to hear your your thought on this, though, is I uh yeah, like all of us are trying to get our eight and our six, eight, ten-year-old, you know, up to that next level, right? You know, prepared for the next level. I said, and I I've been my my my biggest thing I've been trying to get across to people is like, yeah, but all this work ultimately we want them playing at 16. Like if all this work now is not doing us any good if they quit. And and the and the statistics are not on our side. 13 years old. That's it. Like, that's when kids quit any sport. It's when it gets to the point where they can make a decision, when they can influence the parent more than the parent can influence them, and when they can just put their foot down, it's like I I I do not enjoy this. Like, this is not something I like. And I think that's where you know, so I think that that that rush to you know, professionalize our kids and to make them feel like adults, the only people that can combat that and fight that with you are people that have done it. Like it was so funny. I was talking to a coach yesterday. Like, you know, it's it's almost like you wish you could have a kid and make all your mistakes, and then have another kid like 10 years later, and say, Okay, I I you know, and I and I and I try to do that. As a coach, a mentor, an administrator. Like I try not to come off as I know everything. I try to come off as I'm just going to let you know what my experience has been, just like you, Scott, and what I've seen. And then you could frame it any way you want. But at the end of the day, uh, you have to make that decision. But I'm just letting you know wherever your kid is now, you know, the college coach that sees them at eight is not remat, is not writing them in the notebook and saying, gonna look for that kid down the road. You know, that's gonna be a kid I'm gonna recruit. Just this doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yeah, no, those are great points. I think the, you know, especially at the younger years, right? 12U, 10U, 8U, 6U, um, is that, you know, there's certain core competencies, right? With with anything, right? I mean, um, and and if I look at it, like I was uh unfortunately or fortunately, I had I had knee replacement uh a couple weeks ago, so I've been off the ice.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

God bless you.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

It's given me a um, yeah, that's six surgeries in after after a long career, but it's interesting because it's given me the ability to sit in the stands a little bit and talk to some of the parents and just hear kind of the concerns, right? Because we're wrapping up our season in the AU and most uh most uh most ages in the next couple of weeks. And then you have maybe a break, and then you got a little bit of tryouts and you got kids going up, and you know, but um, and I can see, like I can see the progression. And I think I hope my parents are pretty satisfied with where we've been this year. But um, I think certain core competencies, right? Like, you know, in any sport, like skating, right? Um, you know, where you can where you can work on some of those that don't need to be in a full uh one week hockey camp, right? You know, do some fun lessons or something like that. But I think outside of just the physical competencies, stick handling, you know, and I'm not even talking about playmaking stuff, just stick handling, being comfortable with a puck, understanding a little bit uh about uh your skating and and the game itself. But to work on more the, and I'm not a child development specialist, right? But there's something that goes on here that you need to be concerned with when those kids are that young, right? And they're that impressionable, you know, and that goes right down from the coaches and obviously up through the parents and such that you need to work on, which, you know, it's like, you know, with the bigger picture stuff, like it's okay to fail, or you know, I like to say we don't win or lose, we win or learn, right? You know, um, and try to just impart a little bit of that. Like my discussion with my daughter is probably two or three questions in the car. Once I know that her head has already gone to the next birthday party or dancing that night, it's done. We don't recap it. We don't go through film, you know, she's seven years old. But I do think that um trying to get to your point, sorry, I can get tangential sometimes, is that you know, you can do more damage than good sometimes in terms of pushing kids into something if they're really not, you know, asking for it, right? themselves, if they're really not out there saying, I want to do this, want to do this, want to this. Because I don't think kids, in my opinion, I don't think kids have that um comparison syndrome too much figured out, you know, where they have to do it because Johnny's doing it or because uh, you know, George is doing it. I think that if they really love it and they want to do something, they'll try it. Versus the parents, you know, thinking, you know, in order to get to that AU team, not only the AU team, but the you know, triple AU team, you know, we're gonna have to do six clinics ex summer and you're gonna give up your time at the pool and you're gonna have to do this. I think that's where you can really get into um not more physical harm, but more mental, you know, maybe scarring kids in terms of, you know, putting them that they have to perform at this level and they have to do this to succeed. I think at those ages, and I was telling my parents yesterday during the game, you know, what had a couple conversations is, you know, while they might be locking in skating right now, they're they feel they they've they've progressed in a in a playmaking, and it's all the, you know, it's a composition of all those things, right? And they're six and eight and ten, right? It's sometimes they'll figure it out. And if they figure out they don't like the game, you know, that's fine. Let them pick a pass on it. I just think forcing anything at that early of an age can lead to, like you had said, 13, if that's the age, that's pretty darn young. So you've invested all this time into your kids, and then they get burnt out. It's not obviously it's more common than uncommon. That it's a very fine line that you have to tow with those kids at that under underage, you know, under the 12 and and you know, the eight, six, eight, ten, twelve year, that you got to be very mindful of what's going on, not only on the ice, but off the ice.

unknown 27:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Oh, yeah, you know, when you invest all that, you know, your kid that 13 says he wants to quit, you want to strangle him. I mean, it's like it's like, you know, what do you mean? What do you mean you want to quit? I've I've invested, I've I've invested all this in you. Like I've given you this gift. I brought you to camps, I brought you to clinics, I brought, and it's so funny how we we refer to it as like a transactional kind of you know, progress. It's not, it's it's it's listen, I I'm gonna provide you whatever you love to do. Uh me as a parent, my job is to you know, get you exposed to as many different things that you can find and like, whether it's art, music, sports, football, basketball, hockey, and then uh just be the bumper, right? And just it's kind of keep you on track and and hopefully it it they like like to me. I joke around my guys all the time. I just want you to like something I like because then I can like going to it. Like I don't want you to, like, I don't I'm not sure if I would like, you know, there's certain things I just don't like, you know. So I said, I'll still love you and I'll still enjoy watching you, and I'll still love, you know, cheering for you, whatever that is, but there's stuff I'm just not a big fan of, you know. So I might not be as inclined to push it on you, right? You know, and and and and really like say, Oh, let's go to, you know, let's make sure you're in band camp for the next three weeks. You know, I'm not doing that. But but maybe I should, you know, and I think it's just passion's passion, Mike. Well, it's just it's just for wherever that kid finds that, right? Like I that's one thing I know my parents were always with me. They're like, we don't care what you're passionate about, just be passionate about something, right? Like just find passion. I don't, whatever it is, it is. Just find whatever that passion is and be proud about it, and we'll support you 100%. And I think, you know, it just happened to be hockey and and uh you know youth kind of development, but I think it's um but I think to your to your point, Scott, uh you know, having the opportunity to talk to your parents about listen, my job here is just to be the guardrails and to be and to provide the skill because I know that's one thing I can transmit to your kids. I can show them how to hold a stick, I can show them how to make a pass, I can show them how to make a pivot. Maybe not now for a couple of weeks, but uh, you know, there's a lot of things I can do for you. And then your job, mom and dad, is to support me and support our mission together, right? So that that your kids can find their way. Um, but I think that's so crucial at that age. It's just it's just you know, and in that age, I think is uh it's unfortunately getting younger and younger and younger where you allow kids to uh just explore. Like it's just it's it's take it's we're taking it away, I think, just so much quicker than we need to.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Michael, look, I always like to try and make myself vulnerable because like like the internet, this isn't a human highlight reel. Even being a host on this show, I experience the anxieties at times of being a hockey parent. Uh, I make the mistakes, even though I hear you and Christy and our guests in my head. Um, and you know, my my greatest fear coming into youth hockey, which I I think we've gotten past, was that man, I really hope the kids love the game. Like you just said, my because I love the game, but I don't want them to feel like they have to play this game because I did. Now I think we're past that. The kids enjoy it, and now I'm realizing that that um uh my greatest fear as a hockey parent or as a parent of a kid in athletics is that they will leave the game one day thinking, man, that was so stressful, or that was so much um anxiety. You know, I and again, they're not me. I think this is another thing about parenting that you know was a real big realization for me. Like these kids, we we always say, Well, that you got that from your mother, you got that from your father. This my kids are not me, and they're not my wife, they're their own person, right? They have aspects of us from a DNA level, all right, and they're similar to us, but they're not us. Um, you know, I I've experienced the game of what a joyous, wonderful gift the life lessons I got out of the game were. That's always how I viewed it. My fear is my kids will not experience it that way as well. Now that's on me, that's on me and my wife to make sure that doesn't happen, right? From a parental standpoint. But I think that, and I want to I want to kind of compartmentalize this for our audience, you know, under under 13 years old, or you know, and Scott, I'm gonna point this at you for your your uh expert opinion on this. What are the bullet points of you should be listening for this, you should be looking out for that, you should be checking yourself as a parent or as a coach on this um at that age of maybe it's just too much, right? Like, what are we looking for as parents and coaches at that age from ourselves and our kids to make sure that they're they're having a good experience at that age level?

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think like anything else, just have communication with your kids, right? It doesn't need to be, you know, sit them down for 20 minutes after the game and go through every single shift and why they do this versus that. I think just having you know proper communication with your kids and in terms of how the game went and how they felt, and even before the game, kind of what's going on. Um, you know, just to kind of put them in that mindset that they hey they could be open and honest with talking with you because sometimes kids, you know, are pretty reserved, but don't try to force it out of them. Right. Right. But have that communication and and and obviously support. And, you know, I try to, you know, with our kids, whether it's my daughter or the other kids' team, just try to, you know, go whether we lose 17 to 1 or whether we, you know, win. I, you know, we don't kind of keep score, even though the kids do in their head. Um, but you know, try to go in there and and leave some positives at the end of the day so they can walk away with that. Because I think, you know, at that age, uh, you know, at that age, a lot of the times this kids' minds are already on to the next thing they're doing that day, right? But you still want to meet leave that impression, you know, every single time they're on the ice of that they they got something out of it, you know, whether it's just uh time with their friends, whether it was being silly with the coaches playing a new, you know, something new on the ice, or whether it's a game in terms of what they what they took out of it or kind of how they felt, right? It's not it's not a deep dive, trust me. And and I wouldn't expect any parents to kind of go in there and have a uh a stock four or five questions after every time. Just kind of get a feel for the kid in terms of if they're enjoying it. And some days they may not, right? Some days it may not. And then um just kind of take uh the kid's temperature, you know, both, you know, most of the time, and you guys probably see it, you know, with younger kids, sometimes it's dragging them to get to these early game slots, right? You know, um, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't mean that you still can't have that conversation both before and after the game to get them kind of pumped up a little bit and excited about being with their friends and getting a chance to be on the ice. You know, I don't think at that time, you know, you're thinking about what life lessons am I gonna learn out of this? But that comes over time, right? So, you know, every single time they step on the ice or step in the locker room, hopefully they're gaining something good, bad, and different that, you know, they they basically file, you know, somewhere that they can uh that they that they can go back to, right? And I think that's just create the biggest positive experience with your kids. Listen to what they say, have a conversation, don't you know, sit there and talk to them for 40 hours and what went wrong and what they can do better, but really have an open line of communication with your kids about you know just how they're feeling. Because I think I tell my daughter every time we go on the ice two objectives have fun, skate hard, have fun. That's it. If she can do that, um, especially the have fun part, then uh it's a win for the day. Um, so yeah, I don't think any specific, you know, recipe. I just think you know your kids, you know, but especially with whatever they're in band camp, jazz, dancing, gymnastics, or hockey, just have that line of communication and don't and and let them speak, right? Just ask the question, let them speak, and take take their feedback. And and if you're intelligent enough, then you know you you're gonna know your response, right? And it shouldn't be one from a negative standpoint, it should be something that encourages further participation and just re-emphasize the fact that they got to spend an hour or so on the ice with their kids and you know, getting from it.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

You know, it's got I think it's also important to know that that your focus is on the child and how they are feeling and how they are reacting and reading the temperature as you said, you know, about my feelings. Yeah, well, I was just gonna say this, Mike. So so your story before is actually quite telling. I mean, and I want our audience to hear this because this should be a little bit of an alarm clock going off, right? You talked about the the the parent who was posting about the grind of getting to the 6 a.m. game or practice, but the kids were miserable, right? So the need to share that I'm grinding trumped in that situation the emotion of the kids in a way, all right. We've all been there, we've all been to that that practice, all right. But the the need to tell everyone, hey, look at us grinding to get here in the cold in the morning, trumped the probably her kids' feelings in that moment or his kids' feelings in that moment. To me, I check myself with that, right? And I don't post a lot about my kids, but I think, am I doing this for me or am I doing this for them right now? And and and I think that's a constant uh question, Scott, that we should all be asking ourselves. Because, like, look, we're human too, we can get lost in it. I'm I'm proud of my kid all the time. We plays net, it's exciting, but it's not about me, but I still have to check myself with that. That's the point I'm trying to make. We're all infallible in that in that situation.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Yeah, I mean, I I find myself, you know, if I'm posting stuff, my kids get all over me. But I it's more like I think it's on my my personal side, it's more like a from a business perspective. I'm like, they're kind of like my guinea pigs, you know. Every time I get any, you know, I get my hockey wrap around or my gel stick or my you know, any any of the stuff that I have, I'm like, okay, you're going up on the I need you because I I can't go grab some other kid from the neighborhood right now.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

You're merchandising for me.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

So I think you know, so to for me, a lot of it's just about, you know, but I do, I I I do try to post, you know, a lot of stuff, you know, a lot of you know, it's not just my kid, just things that are happening in hockey that's that's that's more positive than negative. Like this is why we do this, and this is why I have so much fun teaching it this way, or this is kind of a product that I like because this is the way I would use it if I didn't know anything, like if I just needed guidance. And I think a lot of our parents, you know, we don't know what to ask for and what to do, and you know, that next, you know, what can we use? Or or it does it always have to be on the ice, or does it always have to be with a skills instructor? You know, I was talking to a uh a dad of a 15-year-old and a and a seven-year-old the other day, and they were asking about the 15-year-old. I said, No, you know, this this skating class is perfect for them. It's very technical, it's very, you know, they really gonna have to think when they're with the coach, and they can process that. They're 15 years old. That that player is gonna be able to process that. You're a seven-year-old, go to public session and play tag with them. That's the best power skating you do. So, because they can't, they're not gonna be able to process all the nuances of where you want your ankle flexion and knee and hip and like that that is just not you know, again, are there seven-year-olds that can? Yes, know your kid. Most, and I think to your point, Scott, about talking about, you know, when I I found that at this age, like that six to let's say ten, uh-huh, it's the transitions that kill these kids, that that get us all crazy, like the the from home to church, from from from soccer to lacrosse, from school to you know, from snack time to this time, getting off the TV to getting homework done. Transitions is this age is where we all battle, I think, as parents, is the kids doing one thing and then asking them to do something else. And I think Lee, we've talked about it a lot of times on the podcast. Like, well, we have to do a better job then of understanding what that timing is. Like, if it if the transition is getting up, mean my son he he he you know, he he coaches me a lot, my younger guy. He's like, Well, dad, you know, if you got me up an hour earlier, I'd be much more prepared for the early practices, right? Instead of you just getting me up 15 minutes before we have to go, I don't have time to, I don't have time to prepare the swing an hour earlier. I can't get up an hour earlier. Like I'm trying to sleep in too. So I can get up and I can go. Right. Like I can literally get up, put a hat on, and go to work. But the, you know, my my little guy's like, well, no, I'd rather you get me up earlier and then I can I can ease into the day. Yeah, I'm like, okay, well, I have to realize that. And I think that's a lot of I think I see a lot of that in a lot of kids.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

We realized pretty quickly in my home that just put the thing down and move on was not gonna work. Uh, and you know, we have a whole process with hey, 15 minutes, 10 minutes, five minutes, one minute, 30 seconds, uh, and it better be off when we come in, or it's now you have a punishment situation. But it took us a while to get to that. And and there are kids, like they're kids, they haven't learned this yet. We can't expect kids to be adults. That's just not how it works. They have to come to that stuff gradually. Um, Scott, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

No, I think that's a great point, Mike. That transition because you see it, right? Like, you know, um, especially in a and I applaud. I we have one kid skating and the other Alex comes around and and watches, right? He might get on the ice the next year or so if he wants. But uh, you know, these these parents that have two, three, four kids playing, right? Jumping around to 50 different 50 different ranks, right? And as much as it's the kid, hopefully it's a it's a kid's choice to want to play hockey, right, at that early age or continue to play hockey, that, you know, obviously as parents, we're like key in everything, right? And you said it earlier, like it's not about us, right? It's not, it's not about us. And I know, like I get and I get into that as well. And I try to pull myself out of that kind of crazy thinking every now and then where I get upset at something, um, you know, that whether it's like my daughter's dragging to get in the car and I'm realizing I got to get there before and I should be there before because I'm the coach and I could, you know, it's check in with the kids and stuff, but you see it like if you if you're not prepared yourself, right? And I'm not saying you have to get up at 4:30 in the morning for an eight o'clock game. If you're not prepared yourself and you can't sit down and just take a deep breath and say, listen, I I'm fortunate enough and bust enough to be able to do this for my kids and and make it about them versus you and not say, Oh, geez, I'm dragging you around to these 50 different rinks, and why don't you, you know, kids don't understand that. They just hear a tone of voice and they probably like, I'm doing something bad, which just puts them further into a shell in terms of inhibiting whatever sort of joy they're gonna have that day, right? And then the transition, I think it's very, but yeah, I'm so glad that I'm coaching again. I I had said that, you know, I just want to be the dad in the stands reading whatever the Wall Street Journal. And I I don't read the Wall Street Journal, but reading whatever, maybe looking at my phone.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

Well, make it look good. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

I mean make it look good, but I'm so glad I'm coaching again because I get a whole different perspective, and I'm glad that I get to talk to the parents and and have the time to see my kid coaching. But uh it's it's dad, it's a little bit of mental judo at times, right? In terms of realizing it, you know, myself, like I'm there to I'm there to coach nine or ten kids. And if my daughter's just not on that day in terms of mentally, I can't let her distracting me get in the way of of coaching the other kids.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

Well, and that's that parent coaching piece, right? Like my son will always ask me, like, I'll be like come on, we were late, we're late. He goes, Are we late for being early or are we late late? Like, are we late for you being late or are we late for me getting on the ice late?

SPEAKER_00 42:45

How old is your son?

SPEAKER_03 42:46

How old is he? He's nine. So, but I'm like, I'm like, listen, we're late for me being there. I I run the program, I need to be there, I need to set the boards up, I need to direct the parents. Unfortunately, because it's one of us going, I'm not, you know, your your mom's not taking you 45 minutes later. You're you're going with me. So I'll get the question. So it's always there's always a fish full. Like, are we late because you're late? Like, are are we are we late for being early? I'm like, yes, that's the that's the standing.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

That's late. You have a responsibility, and you're late if you're not there on time. That's that's right.

SPEAKER_03 43:17

But but my but his but my responsibility shouldn't fall on his responsibility. So like he gets a he gets dragged along by being the coach's son, right in a negative way. Now, we've been trying to do certain things to to help with that, but that's a lot of it. I think, and I think you know, I try to get other parents to understand that like listen, like I'm here for your kids 100%, but I have a kid too, and my kid is just as finicky as your kid. Like, when your kid doesn't want to go, you just don't go. When my kid doesn't want to go, I have to go, right? Like, I don't want to tell you a lot of choices there.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Like, like, and and and I'm talking about a gut check I had. And then Scott, I want to I want to turn the episode towards the work that you do because I think it's important that we discuss that. But right, uh, I remember like like like I call these trigger moments in my own brain where I have to rethink things. Um, and we kind of have been alluding to this. I remember I started having this thought of you kids are gonna make me late. And I I remember as soon as I thought that, I was like, that's not right, right? It's not their fault. And I turned it inward. I said, It's my fault because I'm not anticipating their behavior. I'm like, like you said, I can put the hat on and leave. That is not fair to them, right? They need the extra 30 minutes, so it's on me to get them up 30 minutes earlier. Now, with that said, these little kids, expletive deleted, will still manage to find a way to elongate this process, but it is a lot easier when I have that extra half an hour and keep them on track. So, look, it's a give and take, it's a balance. Yeah, y'all, everyone's gotta work together, but I all you also gotta look at your own situation and say, okay, look, are we are we is 15 minutes honestly enough time for a nine year old to get his or her stuff together? Because we do that, right? You just everyone listening, you've got to do that on your own. Some of you have kids that just pop out of bed. I know it. I'm just saying we all have to gauge that different. There's no perfect parents. Scott, go ahead, and then I I want to dive into your work.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

No, yeah, I I I get on. Think back. My dad gave me an option thinking back, and I'm not suggesting this for people, but he'd, you know, it was our first like practice I when I was probably squirts, maybe, um, is that I was so nervous about not making it. My dad's like, You got to wake up on time. If you're gonna go, you gotta wake up and I'll take you. And I'm sure he would have taken me if I didn't wake up on time, but I was so nervous that I actually got dressed in my hockey gear and went to bed that night. So responsibility. So I'm not suggesting that because uh, you know, but I I do think, yeah, you gotta know your kid, right? You're you're obviously around them much more than your coaches are. Um, and you need to know and and factor in some of that stuff. I mean, we've got all have a million things going on, right? Right. Start throwing in more variables with multiple kids playing this and your daughter going here and daughter going there, that you know, you've got to plan ahead, like with that, you know, it just it just saves the that last minute frustration, which kids can read, right? Like, you know, you get frustrated, the kids read it, you know. Um some toy with it. Some toy with Scott. Yeah, you don't start the day right. Like if it's me and I get up and I don't get a chance to go get a copy before I go on the bench, right? I sometimes might get agitated, but I can't try to let my daughter see that preach Scott.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Everyone listen to it.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

But again, we and we talk about that all the time. It's all about just being prepared and communicate, right? Like if I'm if I'm going on a fishing trip, I can tell you right now, I'm not packing the morning I get up at five o'clock in the morning and go on the trip. It's packed like three days ahead of time. Like I know where everything is.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

But if you were nine, if you were nine, I was nine.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Well, I I I I tell listen, if you're if we're getting up super early, guys, right, pack your bag, put it by the door, everything's there. You just pick it up and go. So the minute you're you could be dead asleep. I don't care, you're just picking your bag up and getting in the car, and instead of putting everything in off the off the uh you know the hangers and and and god forbid you forget something because you're just not awake. But we and we've talked about this a lot on the show, just about being, you know, just finding ways for your kids to be successful, right? It falls on you, and then you trial and error, you know. Hey, look, listen, if you got to get dressed the night before and sleep in your beer, right? Do it. Not at 15. I wouldn't suggest that with a 15-year-old because the stuff stinks. This is how you uh little kids.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

This is how you avoid the how'd you forget your skates?

SPEAKER_03 47:28

How'd you forget those? They're still hanging in the they're just hanging in the room.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

You need those. Um, Scott, I want to pivot here. I think I think it's really important we bring this up in the injury, the the uh episode, excuse me. Um uh in 2018, you suffered a traumatic brain injury that was uh a pivotal moment in your life. Um, and we said it before, you played over 350 games of pro hockey. I'm sure you faced plenty of adversity and injury during that time. So, what about 2018 spawned you to rethink things and really pivot your life?

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Ah, that's a good question. Yeah, you know, um I, you know, my injury was in April that year. Um, it was it was so severe. I I don't recall probably three or four months after, give or take, you know, things here and there. But I do recall that, you know, I worked with a great neurologist, and he had he had talked about it being, you know, he'd mentioned to me saying, hey, this is probably gonna be the one of the toughest injuries you've ever had, if not the. And I said, why is that? And he said, nobody can see it, right? So I was I was I was scared, right? I was scared in terms of, you know, I'd had previous concussions. I probably dropped the gloves way too many times when I was playing just to kind of keep a spot or just to kind of protect people that were much more talented than mine. But long story short is when I started to look back at it, um, you know, I was worried about what my future looked like, right? I had two young kids. Alex was just born, or he wasn't actually born at the time. He was my wife was pregnant with him at the time of my injury, and her daughter was uh two, two and a half. And I started to get scared in terms of um, you know, what lay ahead, right? Especially when you look at all the CTE and the post-concussion syndrome and stuff like that. Like, geez, I've really got to be a little bit more proactive in terms of how I take care of myself, right? And that the the rehabilitation out of a brain injury, like is okay, don't not too much light, you know, focus, like limit your inputs, right? Like, so I didn't work for a while. Um, I just had to slow things down. And then slowing things down made me realize that I had a lot of things coming at me. And whether it's the athlete in me, whether it's that competitive nature, whether it's just that I got lucky that over the years that I was able to achieve some success both on the ice and outside in the business world, that I I still I still was handling too much and I needed to slow down. And I wasn't taking care of myself in the ways that I could have. Like I was diagnosed mid-my career, 94, 95, with some anxiety and depression. I just kind of blew that off and I didn't handle that properly for the next 20 plus years. So it made me realize that I just didn't take time. I was focused on, you know, um something, some goal of success. And I I couldn't even tell you at the time what that was, right? It just seemed like it hit one milestone, I'd go for the next and the max. And I always knew I was somewhat um friendly, good in relationships. But I the one thing I didn't have was a true awareness of what was going on with me. And once I had the time and took the time and I needed to take the time to recover from this injury, to start trying to try to identify some of those things and why things were going on inside of me and that that I wasn't taking care of and how to properly take care of them to give myself the best chance to recover, but also lead a more meaningful life and be around for my kids, right? So that that, you know, without going too long into it, I started thinking of all these things I would wanted to tell my kids that I didn't have a chance to tell them. Should I had, you know, not being been found when in the time I was by my wife and you know, had a chance of, you know, bleeding out and dying. So I just started thinking about that and saying, you know what, I've got to first take care of myself and not in a selfish way, but in terms of giving myself the best chance to recover from this injury, but also dealing with some of the other deficits that I've been taking care of throughout throughout the previous 20 years because life comes at us hard and I I could handle it for a while. Um, and a lot of things look rosy on the outside, right? Nice house in Princeton, you know, made some good money, had a I was blessed to do a lot of good things and be around a lot of good people. But at some point, that could have been a big crash and burn. And I, you know, through the accident and through the injury, it just gave me the opportunity to address things that I needed to address at the time and continue to address. And I think it just put me on a more solid foundation to help others out there. And that's kind of where, you know, my next chapter is kind of burned out of that, um, out of that instance.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

Well, I was gonna say, look, that's exactly what you did. Uh, because as we said, look, you were a successful hockey player in many ways and successful in the mortgage business. But since that injury, uh, you've been involved and created some incredible organizations. Uh, just to mention again, Cheropee, Edge for Athletes. We know you're involved with the ranch uh teammates for life. Um, I'm not even sure what else you're involved with, but can you walk us through uh those organizations and associations and tell us maybe the meaning behind them, what they do, and then while why they're important to you now?

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Yeah, I'll I'll go on the back end. So um in reverse, I guess. So the ranch, I was asked um, when I started to get more into advocacy, right? You know, I I realized that, you know, having some struggles over the years with my mental health and keeping them myself really, you know, didn't help anybody. So I started to talk to friends about that and I started to get involved a little bit more in advocacy. And then I saw Clint um posted something, uh and I knew Clint Millarchuk uh just I knew his story in terms of his his uh his injury, but I didn't know much after that. And when I started to dive into it more, I'm like, I need to talk to this guy. And I was like, uh, at least I'll reach out to him. And, you know, by the power of LinkedIn or other methods, I I got a hold of him and he said, Yeah, give me a call. And, you know, um, I talked to him and uh he said, I really think you should look at joining uh this thing we got going on with the ranch. And that was probably three years ago, two and a half, three years ago. So I think I was asked, you know, just my experience in hockey and my my um willingness to try to kind of go down that path to help others out who who struggle with with things post-career, whether it's mental health or other addiction and stuff like that, is I just felt like my experiences could help those. And then uh obviously my connections in the sports world and just uh business in general. I think uh that was my first entree in terms of being an ass. And it's been great, it's been a good learning experience. It's a great organization. We're doing some great things, and there's some really good people involved and more good people every day that want to really see that place succeed and help athletes out there. So that's the ranch. Um, you know, Edge Edge for Athletes was built um, you know, that was that was framed basically out of the need to start building out. I don't want to get too businessy, but I, you know, I didn't talk about verticals, you know, up until this past year, but um was built out of uh or spawned out of the fact that we were going to go pretty deep with athletes and and we've through Cheropee, and I'll intertwine this through Sheropee. We're all about shared lived experiences and how those can benefit others, right? Being open and honest, um non-judgmental and actually sharing experiences versus something you read in the in a book or saw online or you know, that you just uh are just sharing with somebody that's not from your experience. So true experiences, I believe, are very, very powerful in helping people get through things, right? Whether it's um work issues or just things that come into your life. So as we're building up. Youth hockey, yeah. Yeah, youth hockey, yeah. That's a good community. Yeah, but no, Cherby was built in just leveraging human experiences and giving people a platform to share those with other like-minded people. And there's a ton of research and science based on how powerful uh storytelling is and how powerful uh sharing experiences are. So we kind of we've been building that out the last couple of years, and it's been tremendous in terms of the amount of people that are out there that are carrying people that want to help. And where Edge came into play was just starting to work with athletes. Uh, a lot of our focus with therapy is life stage transitions coming out of the military, coming out of divorce, coming out of you know, loss of a loved one, and obviously um athletics. So there's a lot of issues that we see in college and professional athletics, obviously youth as well, where um where we feel we can make a dent in terms of some of these in terms of the awareness and and work with athletes. So that was basically a proactive way of talking with these college athletes and professional athletes that not saying, you know, hey, your career is going to end one day, you better be prepared for it. Actually, taking a softer approach and a more proactive approach to kind of get them thinking about things that they might want to be thinking about while they have the time. You know, I know athletes and student athletes spend a tremendous amount of time and don't, you know, you would think that they don't have any time for anything else, but they do. Like I know, at least in my experience, that you have time for some of these things. And that's everything in the personal development space, uh, self-discovery, all that sort of stuff that I think we can provide, you know, to these athletes. And what what we're doing with Edge is we're actually leveraging other athletes' experiences. So we've got a great team of ambassadors and we're growing that team as we speak. And we have some good affiliations that we're going to be announcing probably in the next couple of months that are really going to jumpstart that organization to help athletes out there. So it's all about really giving people a platform to share their experience, which I know helps the person sharing on top of how much it helps others out there, right? There's there's so much unused experience out there that goes untapped that I think if we can tap into it, like having conversations like this, all the better. And if we can create, you know, communities and and create communities, whether it's in the athlete community, the military community, or other community out there that needs the resources and support, then we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

You know, Scott, you're bringing up some really tremendous points here. I'm writing a lot of notes. Um, and I'm trying to encapsulate this into like the entire experience. When you think about humans in general, the need for us to be around each other is actually a biological evolutionary need. Well, humans are supposed to be around other humans, even introverted, extroverted, it doesn't matter. Uh, it's it's pretty well documented that from an animal point of view, we have to have our our packs or our tribes, so forth and so on. Um, in terms of Sheropee, edge for athletes and sharing stories. Uh I love that the conversation's opening up now to do more of that. And if if you look at um, I don't want to say people with problems, but if you look at people that are suffering, you know, and you look at things like you know, Alcoholics Anonymous, AA, a group where we share, and a lot of healing comes out of that. And the people that were hurt heal. You look at veterans helping other veterans. Uh, you look at hockey parents helping other hockey parents, um, you know, which is one of the reasons I think this show is so successful is that we're just having a conversation that a lot of people weren't having. Um, I think there's a lot of power in that. And I think as people, we should look for that. So, number one, I applaud you for what you're creating because it's creating the avenues for that, and there's um impact there that have echoes and echoes and echoes that go beyond just one person, but but it started with you. The other thing, too, is this with our kids. And again, you just kind of click this in my head, Mike. This goes back to what you were saying. Our kids are watching mostly human highlight reels online, they're not seeing a lot of the failures, and that will instill, and this is true for adults too, it instills a fear of sharing failures or sharing negative experiences because all you're seeing is highlights, right? You got to be part of the highlight, and you got to break that because it's not reality. And I think one of the keys to breaking that, as you just said, Scott, is just finding some other people that maybe are going through similar things. It's a lot easier to say, I failed at this when someone goes, you know what, I did too. Right? And we don't do that enough today. And when you bring it to kids, they're they're terrified of it, right? No kid's gonna come up to you like, yeah, I really screwed up today. And I mean, not no kid, but you know, you know what I'm trying to say. Like, we don't encourage them to talk to us. And it and here's the other part of it, Mike, you and I experience this daily, Scott. You too. They don't want to come to their parents and tell them because the reaction's gonna be different. They want friends, so I just think what you're creating is important, but I also think the larger message here is that we need to encourage each other to find groups that are gonna provide that support and have to be okay parents when that support is not you, right? I'm always amazed, and I and and and you know what? I I want to thank my kid for this, and he has no idea he's doing it, my daughter too, that when I step away from my son and he just plays with his friends, and I love playing with my kid, I love it. But when I step away and he just plays with his friends, I can see it's a it's a different experience for him. You know, he's happier in a lot of ways, and it's fun. And you know, I forget, you know, I'm his parent. You know what I mean? Like, because I'm just having fun on the ice, but I'm getting long-winded now. But my point is that we gotta recognize what our kids are seeing in ourselves. And most things are highlights right now. There's a lot of powers out there actually trying to pull us apart. What you've created and the people you work with are advocates for that community, and I think that that's insanely important right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Um you talk about it, the connection, right? Like you talk about needs. So three pillars growth, connection, contribution, right? Those adults. Obviously, kids need to grow, they need to connect, they need to be around their friends, they need to get exposure to different types of friends, right? Um, that those are three key needs outside of you know other needs that we have as human beings. And I think, you know, that that uh that contribution is like, you know, am I making a difference, right? Like it does this mean anything to me. So that connection is uh it's hard, right? Especially, I mean, as adults, we're getting overwhelmed with, you know, social media and and uh and technology and it and it impacts our kids and and going directly, like I love the fact that you mentioned like you stepping aside and letting your kid just be a kid. You know, that's where that's where you encourage creativity, you know, having fun versus some fear of failure so you don't try something new, right? Especially on the ice. And I think that somehow, whether it's in the classroom or whether it's in on the ice or on the field, that you know, not giving the space or or talking to your kids about, hey, it's okay that you didn't win or it's okay that you fell down, gives them a little bit more, I believe, um, ability to be creative and not, you know, you know, clenching their stick on the ice or being fear that, oh my goodness, my dad's gonna, you know, not, you know, drive me home if I, you know, don't shoot this puck correctly or something like that. So I think that's very important in terms of that. But I also think that goes right up the ladder. It goes with adults as well. Like if once you if you fear failure, you fear something, and obviously with social media and you're gonna compare yourself against whatever things out there, that's a recipe for a lot of disaster out there. So I think the more we can identify with like who we are in terms of what we need to do to grow and to connect, contribute, and to have some impact out there, the better. And I think it takes talking to other people who either have walked through or are currently going through what you're going through to help, you know, to increase your chances of coming out of it on the other end with learning through something or dealing with it in a more effective way.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

Absolutely agree. And and again, the community aspect could be faith, it could be uh a community of people online, anything. Just find a community that's uplifting and that can help you or say shared experience, right? It's not always going to be sunshine and rainbows in a community either. It's shared experience. And again, going back to like stepping away, you know. I I Mike knows this. I stepped away from being on the bench this year. I'm I am happy I did it because my kids enjoying the game more. And and look, like it takes time to be like, Hey, I don't blame myself for that. All right, it's one of those things, too. Like, I think we could forget as parents what we are to our kids. We love them, we want the best for them. I want the best for you. But it's mom and dad to them. I mean, all you gotta do is go back to your own mom and dad in your head and how you might have looked at them. It's gonna change that conversation. Um, Scott, one more for you. Uh uh and Mike, if you got more, please jump in too. But um, in all of my research of you, uh, the articles, the podcasts, one of the things I loved is you use uh a lot of metaphors from the game to describe life. Now that speaks to me directly as someone who loves hockey. You talk about um I read a great passage from you about gap control on the ice versus life, uh digging in and not gliding on the ice versus life, etc. Um, on the show, we always talk about hockey as a vehicle for our growth as human beings, right? And uh I often credit the game with teaching me how to approach life. It sounds like that's the same for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

Yeah, no, uh yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I do, I mean, it's just part of whether it's through playing or coaching or both, like that's that's that's our speak, right? Right. And if you can relate it um to life lessons, you know, it's gonna obviously, I'm sure that speak is different with baseball and football, whatever, but it's just an easier way for me to relate it, you know, in my experience. And I think if you're not taking life lessons away from your sport, you may not realize it when you're six, seven, eight, or nine. Like, you know, um, I think that's uh us as parents to be able to start like reinforcing that when they're that young. But if you're not taking something away of it, then you're either not getting coached properly or you're just you just don't enjoy the sport, right? So it's just more of a it's more of a grind than than more of something you're having fun at. But yeah, I I I truly think like, I don't know, I can think a lot of them. Like, you know, um, like I just think of when we were talking about creativity, like dump the puck, or you know, like, you know, you know, dump and change, all these sort of things pop into my head, you know, and I'll go back without being too long-winded, you know, during my college career, and I had an incredible coach. But for some reason, one year, like we were so bad breaking out of ours end, we would just have to wrap it around the boards. So I was like, man, that just created that killed my creativity, right? But um, you know, I always think about these expressions, and I think from in terms of storytelling, that's what comes into my head sometimes, gap control, things like that. And I think that if you're not able to learn, you know, sports is a big part of my life and a big part of our lives, right? And I think that if you're not able to take away some key points that help you with other aspects of your life, whether it's parenting or in the job, then you're missing something or something's not being provided to you correctly during your playing years.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

Yeah, I always like to refer to uh Danny Rojas in uh Ted Lasso when he says, Football is life, right? And I said, depending on how you hear that, it could mean two things. It might you might take that as the sport is all that matters in your life. Or when I say things like that, you know, hockey is my life, I say, you know, it is the metaphor for life, right? The the game, and you can apply this to many different sports. The game is a great teacher, and there's so many situations. And I was just talking about this on another podcast about the day I realized that I could apply my effort, my love, my passion, my creativity from hockey to something else. That was a really big eye-opening moment for me. You know, uh, and people are like, Well, you didn't know you could do that. No, I didn't. I was so identified as a hockey player that that's the only thing I thought I could apply this to. You know what I mean? And and you, you know, no, it took a snap moment and a lot of things falling apart for me to realize wait, I'm not limited to the game to do this, right? And it and and you know, I think you've lived your life in a way that's conducive to that too, man. Like again, just the way you've opened it up and you've created a place that's gonna affect thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, millions of people long term. And that is amazing to me. And I applaud you for that. Um go ahead. My bad. Mike? Yeah, Mike, do you have anything? Mike, I should have thrown it to you, Mike.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:56

I just I'm just I'm just saying you're you're yeah, I don't know. I'm I always kind of think I'm thinking about how how this applies with different age groups and and and you know, when when would you implement you know how heavy you'd want to have these conversations? I mean, where where have you been finding? I mean, is your is your is your kind of sweet spot.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:16

right now like post player is it is it in is it is it current athletes and and and you know professionals or is it high school like where where are you finding this uh makes the most impact when the parent voice isn't the strongest voice for the person yeah the you know what I I think we could have you can have impact at all different levels right I think um you know that might be right now biting off a little bit more than we can chew right our focus has been current collegiate and professional uh players but I do see like I I'm talking with people that are in that space that you know that that we'll collaborate with that are um that kind of went that route you know professional and collegiate but are actually more ingrained in high school right now so and I and I do think youth sports needs it right um like we'll support any and everybody who's there to better you know kids experience um but it's just a matter of what we're tackling now is more collegiate and and professional and and probably more collegiate right the numbers are just greater there than than professional and I think a lot of it is uh you know like you talked about it like identity like you know what's portable post-career post post uh college or post-professional career and and and taking some of those attributes and there's a lot of great platforms out there that do it you know um which is great I think you know the more the better especially in sports military you know there just needs to be more resources for these people so we're focused more I would say really strongly on collegiate but also you know helping out um you know people that are in professional in the world in terms of whether it's hockey or whether it's baseball but uh football lacrosse you know there's a lot of them nowadays but and if there's the best part about it is when you're in any space like you meet other people that are tackling some of those others like some of the youth and stuff. So I have a tremendous amount of trust in some people that I've gotten to know over the last year or so that really could, if need be, we can send people their way.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:15

So yeah I think I think it's it's interesting because one of the groups I I I consider a mentor group to me as a coach uh and a professional is a is a group I meet with um a bunch of ex-coaches or some current coaches and we meet once a week and one of the things that keep we keep coming back to is the the the the less need at the youth like being more proactive so people aren't getting to the point of where you're rehabbing them almost like like you know going at getting ahead of this and then instead of instead of you know needing a hockey director as your first point of concern in a youth hockey program it might be like an ethical director or a uh an emotional director like somebody that can understand you know how to frame a lot of these things for our kids so that we're not getting to the point of they've fallen kind of off the cart. Like like how can we how can we prepare our athletes and our parents and our and our you know the people that we associate with early on and then I listen identify those those those areas where we have to spend more time instead of saying well the answer to all youth hockey is just more power skating classes. Well the answer might be let's have a conversation with our teenage players our our ATU kids about the path and the journey and what you're going to encounter and then we're gonna try to proactively help you navigate that world and then of course there's other support services for you when you do make that mistake or or or make a decision that wasn't in maybe your best interest or the team's best interest. And I just think that's where you know I think when you what you're doing is where that that those do those do uh combine like they they there is a lot of synergy there for somebody working in the youth world to understand what you're doing post career so that we can bridge the gap okay where are we missing why we're missing certain areas where it gets to the point where somebody feels this anxiety, feels this depression, you know, feels this kind of overwhelming um you know flood of emotion based off of what we're doing, right? We're doing it at the youth level. Like we're the ones directing these kids. So we certainly have um influence on how we approach them and you know and where and and and and kind of how they're reacting to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

Yeah no I think that's great. I mean I love the term proactive right you know you know because that's what we're all about. I mean whether it's collegiate or professional um and even obviously in youth with people dealing with it to be proactive obviously you know can ward off a lot of potential issues, right? I I think that you know we're not around to sit here to try to fix everybody in terms of every single thing but we you know we we can what we can do through conversation and through discovery is you know get people to realize that oh maybe I should look into that or maybe that is accessible to me. Right. So you see a lot of in in the collegiate world and obviously in the professional world you get a lot of mindset coaches like there's a lot of now team sports psychologists that are dealing with that. It's just a matter of getting people or the player um to ask for that help right like it's there you know as a resource you know um but it's just getting people to identify that maybe that their life or their career at that point in time might be better by speaking with somebody. And I think you know we'll see it and I don't know you know it's it's out there obviously like in the in the development program and and some other colleges out there that are um that are attacking you know some of this uh mental wellness ahead on right and hopefully that you know grows to um to my much more exposure in the collegiate level and obviously in the youth level I think you know we you don't have to teach kids you know I think mindset is key but you know mindset at eight it's obviously different than 18 than 20 right but I think it's a key point and I think a lot of that goes on our shoulders as parents when they're young and that just hopefully if I can help parents out by not being stressed like I always say make better communities better the communities in which we live work and play right I don't want people getting home from work then having to go drag their kid to the rink that had a bad thing going on at work that can't put that thing aside and then that's the parent yelling at the ref during the game right it's just you got to compart compartmentalize come compartmentalize sorry I'm a tongue twister for myself right now but um you've got to be able to compartmentalize that I'm tackling again but I think the better we can create um in terms of our communities hockey community military community the better willingness for people to address some of their the their needs that they may not have thought were needs before and then provide resources or pointing them in the right direction or trusted direction to go then we can better better that person which you know bleeds into their other aspects of the life whether it's coaching hockey whether it's parenting hockey or whether it's even playing hockey themselves. Where um that can be another episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

Yeah I always I always get freaked out when guys on my men's team shared me their live barn highlights from the game I was at but that is for another episode. Scott Kelski again circled this on my notes here growth connection contribution I think we talked about all three of those today um I think it says a lot about who you are I want to say it again man I applaud you for for the steps you've taken through your life not just as a hockey player but as a person and the the contribution you're making to to the people not just the sport just the people in general I think that needs to be celebrated and talked about more. So thank you so much for sharing that with us today.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:47

No thanks guys I love what you guys are doing and um uh and I've shared what you guys are doing because I didn't want it to seem like oh I'm on this podcast you should listen to it right so hopefully some of my parents are uh have have listened to you guys and I and I applaud you guys for all you're doing out there to help the kids and obviously um you know better their experience in the sport.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:06

Well taking your lead we're trying to grow the community right and that's one of the things that makes this show so great is that all the listeners here I think we're all experiencing this in real time together and that's why we find success. So it's a great episode Scott Kelsey you were fantastic Mike Benelli you were fantastic and this was just another wonderful show uh as always and the audience listening can't thank you enough. You are just the best and you keep us going every single week and the community that we're growing here is important. If you want to be part of that community there's several ways to do it head over to Facebook find our private group called Our Kids Play Hockey have to answer a couple yes or no questions to get in but we have great continued discussions as well there. And then every episode we're done including this one available on your favorite podcast network or our kidsplayhockey.com where we also have some special deals for you if you're looking to support us support the show or support some people in the game. So without further ado we want you to enjoy your week in hockey we'll see you next time on our kids play hockey. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening whether it's a podcast network a social media network or our website ourkidsplayhockey calm also make sure to check out our children's book When Hockey Stops at when hockey stops dot com the book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life we're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.