How To Prepare For The Next Age Level

SPEAKER_00 1:23

It's it, it's the time, it's the end of the season, which means a lot of your kids might be moving up to the next age division. And yeah, we're talking Mike's work, Pee Wee, Bantam, Midget. I didn't even have to practice that. I just did that off the top of my head. Uh, and we have a whole episode here talking about what it takes mentally, physically, and everything in between for a parent and a kid when you move up to that next age level, how to prepare for it mentally, how to prepare for it physically, uh, and maybe some of the uh red flags you want to look for when you're doing that. But also, uh, speaking of moving on up, we've been nominated. If you've been listening to any of the episodes or you've been following our pages, we've been nominated as the Hockey Sports Podcasting Awards Podcast of the Year. We got shortlisted by their group of experts. And again, want to thank all of you who are our valued listeners for helping us get to the point where that's even possible. And if you want to help us win that award, head over to our kidsplayhockey.com. Right now, there'll be an easy link to follow. Um, you have to sign up quickly. We know, we know. But you have to do that, and you can vote right there for us. Uh help us potentially become the hockey sports podcasting awards podcast of the year. That would be amazing. But if you don't want to pause right now to do that, we understand. Do it at the end. Uh otherwise, enjoy this episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Leah Lias, joined by Mike Benelli and Christy Cassiano Burns, who is back from the Crusades to join us today for an episode. We are actually very happy to have you back.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

I missed y'all so much. We missed you too.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

It's not the same without you. And uh today's topic is a special one. We're gonna be talking about moving on up, moving on up to uh the next age level. Again, we're not talking about going from B to A or AAA or quadruple A or AAA, super elite prospect showcase, whatever. We're talking about going from Mike to squirt, squirt to peewee, peewe to banned, banned to midget. That's right. I use the old names. Okay, I like them too much. I'm not letting them go. I'm holding on to them. Or, you know, 8U, 10 U, 12U, 15U, 18U. You know how it goes. Uh, but before we dive into this, we have a special announcement. Christy Cassiano Burns has graduated.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

I'm a graduate. Graduated. Your mom graduate.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Her her youngest daughter, Sophia, has has graduated from her college career, thus making daughter.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Her favorite daughter.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Her favorite daughter has graduated from hockey, making Christy the first alumnus hockey mom on this panel.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Which is kind of exciting. It was so fun, too. I mean, we just it was the way to go out. The girls had an amazing, incredible, sudden death over time game. They didn't win, but what a great way to just kind of leave it on the ice and have such a fantastic memory to see here. And they made history for their college too, because in the entire history of the program, they had never beaten St. A, St. Anselm, and they beat them in a playoff game, which had never been done since 2004. We're going back years and years. And they made history, they were in the college record books for their college. And uh, of course, there were a lot of tears, you know, when it was all over because they kind of hit you. You know, you're you're walking out of the ring, you're like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Were any of those kids even born in 2004?

SPEAKER_00 4:39

I was just gonna say the freshman were born in 2004.

SPEAKER_03 4:43

Exactly. So that was pretty amazing. Um, so like what a way to uh end it all. It was great.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed watching it on your social media, it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

Thank you. Yeah, you know, both of us the younger moms, the younger moms are coming up to a senior mom saying, Why are you smiling? What do you mean? Are you sad? Are you upset? We're like, nope. Next, come on, with your lives again.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Move on.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

I'm gonna have some money. I'm actually gonna be able to get my nails done, you know? It's like, whoa, money in my pocket. I love it. Let's go, girls.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Let's not discourage the young hockey parents yet.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, no, we'll get to that. We'll get to that as the episode goes on. I want to give a stick tap to Mike and I to you, Christy. And and I I think it's also important to note that you're mentioning that that just winning the championship is not the only way to go out feeling great. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah, it was good stuff. It was good stuff. They battled their hearts out. We're so proud of them. It was really a lot of fun. It was fun.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

There was nothing left. So so we have to start with all of this said, for those of you listening, the the burning question, Christy, that you know, you as a journalist, but I'm gonna reverse it. I'm gonna be the journalist to you. Uh-oh. The four billion dollar question was it all worth it?

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Oh my gosh, yes. Yes. The memories, the friendships, um, all the lessons learned. It was just a culmination of um 18 years of hockey because she started playing when she was three, and she's 21 now. So it's 18 years of determination, of you know, learning how to face adversity. She's made friends for life. I mean, I can see these women, these young women being in each other's weddings and being, you know, godparents of their babies and stuff. I mean, these are forged friendships. Uh, they're always going to be there for each other, which is just so beautiful. I think she learned this is true. Employers love to hire hockey players. It's a fact. And I know why. Their work ethic, their ability to just uh face adversity, to figure things out, to come up with strategies on how to you know overcome any obstacles. Yeah, there's a lot to a lot to be said for being uh a hockey player, yeah, and seeing your kids go through it. Yeah. I wish I had played hockey. I think I would probably be a better journalist. Well, no, seriously.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

There was absolutely no hesitation in your answer there. And I actually think that is something that all of us that are still in this game need to hear. That at the end of the road, it was absolutely worth it, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

So fun.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

That's an important message. And I think that uh you've calmed the hearts of many souls listening to this show. Now, Mike and I are going to make this uncom and talk about all the things that are changing. No, Christy, that's a fantastic answer. And again, seriously, from from both of us and all of us listening, uh, congratulations on on that for uh for both your kids, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Yes, no problem, Elvis. Um, so to give context to everybody listening, my son is about to graduate to uh squirt, which is a pretty big jump. Mike, I forget if your kids are moving up to different age groups this coming season.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Uh technically, yes. Yes, I'll take it. So I mean, it's like not it's not like it's not like so. It all depends. So we'll talk about that in the show, but we'll talk about that today.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Sure, no, that that's actually that's a good point, too. And then uh, you know, my daughter is uh kind of at the end of Adams looking at mites. So so we're we're we're we're all at transitional periods uh within the game. Again, Christy's about to hit the jackpot and have all of her money back, which is amazing. Um, but I want to talk about the common fears of this time period to kind of quell that for some of the parents listening, players listening, maybe even some of the coaches, and then talk about the reality of it because there is a reality to your kid moving up to the next level. Uh, spoiler, it's not that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

You know, one of the things I was worried about with my son in particular is because he was a little bit smaller than some of the other boys. I was always worried as he moved up a level, um, the size and the speed of players that were, you know, bigger, even though they're the same age. You know, there's such differences in weight and height. And I was always fearful of, you know, how his body wouldn't break against some of these bigger, faster, stronger players that they would go up against. You know, that was always a big concern. So uh we'll go to Mike Vinelli on that one.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Uh yeah, and I think we're gonna have I think we're gonna have a discussion too on, you know, because there are different like moving up, there are actually some big changes. Like it, you know, when you were talking about going from from a non-check to a checking to going from maybe not you, maybe not moving up a level, but maybe you're moving up, you know, within the organization, you know, like a different organization has a whole different philosophy. You're moving to more travel, to more maybe workouts. Are you is your kid ready? I I saw a great thing today. We'll discuss too later on about you know, it's an old like a like a real seasoned grizzled hockey dad that had, you know, has a lot of that has much, you know, that that wants to offer advice. But I I would always go, I always refer back to this and preface this this whole podcast tonight on the fact that you're all none of you are gonna listen to this, and you're gonna wait until you're 18 and go, oh shh crap. I should have listened to that. That's what we should have listened to because because uh the the what happens is everybody gets this great epiphany of what they could have and shoulda and maybe you know wanted to really do. And and for a lot of us, it's too late. It's like after the whole process, like, man, I didn't I didn't need that those three weekends away, or I didn't need to pull my kid out of that program. Or and again, I that's I'd love to discuss that a little bit today, because it's not only moving up and and the and le you know, the you know, uh leaving friends and and leaving and buying a different jersey and moving up from you know a uh from uh from from 10 U to 12U, and then if you forget about if you're in a program that's major minor, where you're going from 10 U minor to 10 U major to P, you know, so there's and there are differences, and I think we we I'd love to discuss that because I think it's I think it's it's a great it's a great thing to talk about within the fabric of youth hockey.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Well, let's focus on one thing. All right, so we'll start with you, Lee. What what are you worried about with your kit moving up a level? What what's what what's your angst? I'll tell you this. What do you what are you worried about? We're gonna help you. We're gonna walk you through this.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

The the show has quelled a lot of them. Uh so you know, look, here's the deal. My son switched from skater to pretty much full-time goaltender this season. So now he's going to squirts where he's gonna be a full-time goaltender. It's full ice. There's this the scores matter. Uh they take standings, they take stats, which I personally I don't care about. But you know, that's a lot for a nine-year-old, gonna be a 10-year-old to deal with. So the first thing, and again, a lot of this is based off the other parents that I've I've um been with, those that are older, like their kids are one year ahead. Uh, the first one was just what team are they gonna make? And I'm I'm very resigned to tell everyone. I honestly, honestly do not care. All right.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Uh we're at that at that age, you shouldn't I don't it should not be you should only focus on is is my kid developing.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Is he is he giving the right instruction? Exactly. You shouldn't worry about that other stuff.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

If there's anything I've learned from this show, it's that the kid's got to be in the right place to develop. And if it's his first year in squirt and and he's you know got the ability to play in a higher team, sure. I but I'm not I'm not hoping for that. I'm hoping him to be on a team or he will so you're you're already ahead of everybody, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

But I want the audience to hear remember though, uh oh, but at least drive it in. Remember Besser.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Remember that you that's all set, that's all well and good, not to uh fixate on what team they make, A or B, or the second or first team. But there is a real concern that we and and we all of us have to see this as parents that is the team that my son or daughter is getting placed on resemble the team that everybody wants to be on. Because if it if the second team is a just a throwaway team, right, if it's a team saying, Hey, I don't really we don't even know who the coach is yet because it's not really gonna matter, it does matter. I mean, because that person's ability to have fun, to develop the kids, and actually when when you have a really strong uh uh developed organization that knows how to manage their kids and really use the the term develop, you'll see the B kids progress faster and quicker than because they're probably for the most part, for many of them, they're in the proper place to have a lot of success. They're not like the old adage when we we grew up, right? Was oh, to be the best, you got to play the best. But if you're playing the best and you never touch the puck and you don't get the play, you can't get better. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

So I think so.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

To your point, it doesn't, uh yes, it in in a lot of ways, it doesn't matter. Does my kid make the A team and the B team as far as status? But it does matter to know but what is the structure of that team?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah, my god, I'll tell you this. I I'm with that. I think that when I look in my head and follow me, there's there's confidence years and there's development years. Now every year is a development year, don't get me wrong, but there's some years where maybe you are the better player on the team to start, um, and that you develop at your own thing. And I think those years are important just for building one's confidence. I think there's also years where you're not the top player in the team and you have to develop. I think they're both good for growth, not just as a hockey player, but as a person. Um, I will say within our organization, when you move up to the squirt, all the teams have coaches um and and they're pretty well coached. Although I have seen organizations where it's like, well, those kids aren't going to go anywhere, so let's find a dad. Uh that would concern me a bit. All right. Um and again, I don't think he's walking into that situation. I feel like that our organization has that. But that's a great point you're making. So look, the first one was just team placement. And I remember seeing parents last year kind of disappointed. Um, they thought their first year squirt uh should have been on a higher team. And look, maybe they're right. Uh I mean, I I I'm thinking of, you know, actually one person in particular. Their kid did over 100 points this year, and it was great. Um, but I can also say that maybe he's exactly where he needs to be. Maybe he needed to feel that. Um, I don't know. It depends, right? The other, the other um, you were asking Christy, the other fear or thing to unlock, right? And this is uh angst as a parent, is just now you're dealing with somewhat older kids. Um you're dealing with you know nine and 10-year-old boys. You know what I mean? So, so how does that play into it? One of the nice things about Might and Adams uh is it's still kind of a cubby bearer type feeling. You know what I mean? It's it's safe, it's fun. Um, now it's like, you know what, I'm I'm not in the locker room that much. And now it's like there is a coach that's really gonna be uh on my son. Uh and then, you know, again, the saying this with a grain of salt, but the games do matter, right? There is a winner and a loser, and then having to deal with that as a player and as a parent. Now, something I'll tell you both that's really funny. Um, because this goes against everything we've we've heard about goaltending. My wife said something to me the other day. I can't remember if I said this on a previous episode, but she says, Wow, your your anxiety's actually gone down since Logan started playing goalie. That's that's exactly what it's like.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

How is that possible? Well, I I don't know a single I can tell you how how you're the anomaly because every goalie parent I know, they're so it's like, where's the blood pressure medicine? You know what I mean? It's like they go great, great.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Well, yeah, I think I think why, Christy, is that and this is one of the funny things is that I know so much about offense and defense that I don't know as much about goaltending. So for my brain, it's like, oh, I can learn this with them, and this is fun and exciting. And and like, look, I've played and coached long enough that you know, the puck going in the net's not the end of the world to me. Like you just know how to deal with that. Um, and I'm trying to help him learn how to deal with that, right? So I see it just as more of, oh, this is this is new and fun and exciting for me, uh, as it is for him. So I think I that's my that's what I believe. Um, but you know, he's coming in a situation, kind of a new position, if you will, um, that he's gonna have to work at. And and so again, the fears that I see and somewhat experience, I guess where I have to talk to myself about it, is what I just said. Number one is that you know, team placement, which again, I think I'm I'm pretty stable with. There's older kids, um, you know, look, boys and girls are mean to each other, right? So that's that's just part of it, though. I mean, it's all life experience, right? And then there's the competition of of just you know the the bigger kids shooting at them. And um, again, there's this this is what I want to quickly dissect is as a parent, how do I approach that? As the kid, how does how should he approach that? Right? Because as a parent, it's just me, it's like I just gotta kind of keep my mouth shut and you know, when he wants me, because the car ride's not for coaching, you know, I need to be there for him. Uh and his and his mother too, right? My wife. Um, but from from their point of view, is it still the same things, guys? Do I still say the same things to him before the game of just give your best effort? You know, when the score does matter and they lose, what am I supposed to say, right? Or not say, for that matter.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah. I mean, you st you still need to be supportive and you gotta listen to them. I mean, take let them take the lead. You know, don't force your your feelings and your opinions on them. When they need to talk to you, they're gonna let you know. And you're gonna be able to sense that time when you need to intervene. Like, okay, uh, this is going bad. I need to step in and really have a conversation with my kid. You'll know. You'll know, you'll know.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

I believe.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

And uh, and being a goalie parent, I predict, this is my prediction, right? One year from now, you're gonna be standing behind the net, you're gonna be pacing, you're gonna have your clipboard, you're gonna count where did the shot go in? How many did he miss? Was it? No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

That's that's old school. That's old school. You put the GoPro on the on on the glass with the suction cups, yep, and then you go, and then you download in stat and you go or or huddle, and you extract the video all built out for you already, and you watch your child's uh clip by clip by clip, and then it never goes anywhere. You watch on the train and you've changed. You have a drink, and then you just you you bury it. That's the goalie parent. I see.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

I I'm not taking notes because I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

I didn't, I'm so out of it. I am so old school, you know. And I'm with college hockey parents, and they still stand behind the goalie at.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Christy, this is what I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

And then after the next pair, you see them on the other side, and they're right behind the goal, right behind the I love that.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Well, that is this is what I will patiently wait for, and and this may be for eternity, all right? Uh, until he comes to me and says, Dad, can you help me? Dad, can you teach me? Dad, can you do this? My my gut reaction is this is not easy, just so you know. My gut reaction is just go out there and have fun. Are you still having fun? When when the answer is no to that, I will step in. And if he ever comes to me, which I hope he does and says, Look, I really want to get better at this. What do I need to do? I'll give him everything. But uh, no, no clipboards, no instat, no GoPros till he was.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

You gotta get the GoPro going.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

No, I I I do I just sit in corner sometimes. I just sit in the corner sometimes. Uh, I mean, I'd rather be on the bench, to be honest with you. But um, look, look, with that said, kids have a way of reminding you that you need to be a dad or a mom better than anybody else in the world. You know, it's it's just not always fun in games, unfortunately, as you know, no pun intended.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Um, but that those are my fears. And look, look, in reality, and again, I'll throw this back to you. In reality, I'm I'm taking all of it with a grain of salt. It's another level, it's the next age group. It's not that big of a deal. It's the natural progression. He's gonna do this multiple times in his hockey career, in his school career, in his life. Uh, to me, it's all just gravy and life experience. Um, I'm not putting any more pressure on him. This is important, actually, before the tryouts. Uh, I'm gonna tell him the same thing I always tell him, which is just go out there and work as hard as you can and make sure you shake the coach's hands afterwards. Don't budge in front of the line, don't tell anybody off, like we had that episode about tryouts a few weeks ago. And just try your best. I'm gonna love you no matter what happens, no matter what team you make, I'm not gonna love you any different. And I love watching you play. That's what I'm gonna tell them. Um, I have seen parents say things like, This one really matters. You really need to show up at this tryout. The kid knows. Yeah, I just I and if the kid doesn't know, that's okay too. I mean, you know, he'll learn eventually. It's it's I would never want my kid fearful of me at a tryout.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Wow, that was good. Um yeah, so like where do we want to go now? Do we want to talk about you know, like so you get up to another level, you have to make all new friends sometimes. That happens and your kids too, a whole new set of friends, which actually is a good thing. I've actually I've actually appreciated them here where, especially my son uh connected with kids from other school districts because he normally wouldn't have met. Um they have that common bond of the love for hockey, and immediately so that's that's already built in. So it's not like friendships are a force at all, they they're pretty natural, you know, and it's it's fun to see. So I know a lot of parents are nervous about oh, he doesn't know anybody on this team.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

It's a good thing. You're right.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

It can be a really good thing, you know, and and good for a lot of reasons. You know, sometimes it's good to get away and to make new friends, and that's gonna help them as they keep moving up um in to the upper levels in college. I mean, you don't know anybody, you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Well, I told you in just life, like when you switch jobs alive, yeah, yeah. So I I think that's incredibly important. And you know, nice thing about hockey is like you might you might come and go with kids, you might see them one year and not the next year. Uh, but yeah, it's funny, we we learn this in the military too. You're moving every three years, and you better learn quick how to make friends and and live in that environment.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

So that's why I think parents shouldn't get too anxious about that particular story.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah, so yeah, yeah, especially in organizations, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Right, but I and I think that's why, like I know, like for me, when when an organization calls me to kind of assess their program and kind of do a SWOT analysis of where they're at, 70, 80, 90 percent of the time, I'm recommending to be in a year of birth structure. And and I I don't mind like and I and I do agree that you want to meet new kids and and and meet new families. But for the for the most organizations, I mean, maybe we're a little in a little different, maybe on the east coast, but throughout the US and and really and watching the European models and everything, you know, most of these kids are all from the same community, and when they come in, they come. Together and they leave together. There's very few. I did a survey um a couple of weeks ago on a uh for for like on social media, just trying to get a uh an idea of like why do we go through all this crazy tryout stuff when all there is really is like two percent. Like Lee, when you look out on the ice for your kids for 10 U tryouts, uh are there gonna be 50 kids out there from from a different organization? Probably not. You're probably gonna have like five, right? Right, and you're gonna notice them right away. Oh, that kid's helmet doesn't match. He's the only kid. Like, so to me, it's like, well, what's healthier for organization? What's healthier for parents? And my advice is to find an organization that that goes that that that that moves in a major minor category, and then you put your kids in age appropriate play. And a 10-year-old, a 10-year-old, uh, you know, so I'll I'll use it like for my son, right? For so a 2013 year of birth, who's going to be a squirt major next year, plays with 2013 year of birth. I agree with that. In the same school, they're in the same gym class, they're in the same kung fu class, they're in the same lacrosse program. Like now, if that's not your category, I agree. It's the it's almost it's like anything else. Right. But well, you got you know, actually, I was talking to your boy there from some Syracuse uh Bo Nieves uh yesterday, and he was talking about experience coming through Syracuse, and it was the same, like it wasn't a lot of hockey. It wasn't a lot like you you needed to to find your level, you had to move, like you had to just keep going to a different place. But for the for most of us, the the the or the community organizations that exist would be healthier, you'd retain kids longer, you'd build better programs. But if you're not in that situation, I think to your both your guys' point, you need to coach your kids on the socialization part. You can't just ask your 10-year-old to go in a locker room and and and and and not coach them by the fact that you're going to a new locker room, you go. I mean, remember when we had Daryl Belfry on, he talked about how he would put his daughter in these weekend tournaments and she only had to come out with one thing, and that's meet three new friends, like know them, introduce them, know their name. And that was when she's 15 years old. So imagine what you could do for your seven, eight, nine-year-old. Just the comfort level saying, hey, my my name's Michael. I want to meet you. I'm I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Well, and Michael.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Kids can be brutal. I get that. But then it's our job to coach them to go through though through that adversity.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Right. And the scenario you provided of organizations that can do that, bravo. I wish we had that, but we didn't have that. I mean, but I have seen when we played against other teams where they have that kind of instructor, you can tell right away that those kids have been together for a long time because they chemistrate, they look at each other, they pass. You they they pretty much know each other's moves. It's amazing. You can see that right away. And if you can do that with an organization, fantastic. But there are a lot of communities like mine. We just don't have that opportunity. So, you know, uh, for parents who are in that situation, like what we went through, don't be worried that you kids, oh, they're moving up, they don't know anybody. It's gonna be awful. I don't know any parents.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah, and Lee, it doesn't it it doesn't matter. Like there, I the last time I have never seen a 10 U reunion game, right? At the Marriott. It hasn't happened. I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

Well, don't say that. Somebody's gonna write it and say, oh, we just had a 10 year reunion. You know, our 10 U team won't.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Please write us if this has happened.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Listen, if you've had a 10-year, if you've had a 10 U team reunion, please let me know that. Because I don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

I'm gonna I'm gonna stick by what I always say is that you know, kind of pre-puberty, a lot of this stuff is more just about fun and having a good time. I think it's about that all the time, but but in the in the context of how I'm approaching it. Uh, you know, Mike, I'll tell you a couple things, Christy, too. My Mike, one thing we have to keep in mind too about the kind of seven, eight or nine-year-olds uh is is that we don't talk about enough is they had to deal with COVID. They were locked up for two years. So I think the social dynamic, Christy, that you were alluding to is actually extremely important. Uh, I've seen, and I'm not pointing anybody out, a lot of socially awkward kids recently because they were not in those environments the last two years and they don't know how to be in an environment with other people and they're learning, right? And it's been wonderful to watch that, but they're just kind of awkward. Um, I don't know if that's normal for that age, but I think that that's something that that as a parent of someone who's nine, um, you know, it's the more interaction they can get, the better. The other thing, too, Mike, that you brought up uh is looking at organizations, are they development first or making it to the top level first? Right. And I think that that um, you know, I I am not a big fan, and I'm not gonna say which one my organization is, but it's it's you know, to me, it's not about what he's you gotta make the best team. You gotta make the best team. We talk about it. I want him to make the team where he's gonna learn the most and he can enjoy the position the most and he can learn how to properly make a glove save, blocker save, and angle and square up, not where there's so much pressure to win the game because he's on an A team. Uh, you know, I I just I not yet. I I don't want anybody listening, you know. I've had to make this distinction a few times because someone says, like, you don't want them to compete. I want them to learn how to be competitive, and there's a difference between competing and learning to be competitive. I think when you get, and Mike, you can we'll transition to you here. When you get over 15, and you know, it's high school and it's college, yeah, you got to compete. I mean, that's that's the level you're competing, you're trying to win. All right. Um, but you've hopefully developed a healthy understanding of how to compete and how to be competitive in a healthy way, or else you start seeing severe mental illness and severe mental issues and suicide and all these other things. So, again, if we don't teach them that prior to that, and I think this starts in Adams, to be honest with you. I don't think we're doing our job. And I think parents, we add the most pressure on if we're not careful. And that's why I said what I said about the message I'm gonna tell my kids. I remember going to tryouts. I was I was often nervous and I was often worried, and I was I was already feeling that. My parents never added, thank God, any pressure onto that for me. I was already feeling it. So so the kids today feel it probably even more because they got to go online and say what team they made. Nobody cared when I was 15.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Right. You didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

I didn't know, nobody cared. I made the team. Oh, it's great. Lee made the team. They didn't even know what I'm saying, B, C, everything in the case.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

And I think there's two words, there's two words that like that 15 U, 14U, that's so scary to me. It's first of all, it's elite competition, right? And and it's development because everybody at 10U and 9U and 7U should be developmental. Like, there are no elite 10-year-olds. And and I think, and and I don't mean, and I think this is this is where people like I know in my world, this is where people get like, oh, well, you don't know what you're talking about, Mike. Like you're you you want to have development. You you think about development. Development's not competition. Development's not my kid is striving to be no. Matter of fact, development is all about competition. Like when you look at the ADM model and what USA hockey's done, it's not a it's not a recreational everybody hugging each other model. It's a high performance model. It's the model that if you want to be an elite hockey player when you're 17 years old, it's the model that you need to be using at eight. Right. And it is it is about competition. It's about battling, it's about adversity, it's about winning and losing. Like even at cross-ice mites and eight U hockey and six U hockey. Yes, there's no score on the scoreboard, but that's not for the kids, because the kids all know the score. That's for the batshit crazy dad that starts that starts putting together schemes to win the game. That's who that's for. It's not for the kids because the kids do know the score. The kids always think listen, my kids play shitty and they know the score. Right. Like that, like even if I try to fake the score, like, no, that that's not the score. I know the score. Okay, well, it's not I don't have a scoreboard in my apartment.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

They know the score if you're kicking a rock down the street. Who has they know the score? So I know the score.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

But I want that. I want competition. I want battling. So I think it when you know when when we're talking about moving up, like I see that with my, you know, from from moving up from like house league or rec to travel, there's a whole other world of expectations there. And I think the problem is that gap shouldn't be that big. Like my rec player should have as much development opportunity. Listen, I run a junior ranger development program called Junior Ranger Rookie Leagues. These are all ten and under kids that aren't travel kids. I run the exact same practice as I do when I'm a guest coach with the Brick Series kids that are literally kids that are expecting to be drafted into the NHL in nine years from now. It's the exact same practice. Now, does it look the same as far as the level goes and the No, because there are different varying levels of nine and ten-year-olds. But the the the format of the practice is a high performance practice. So when you're moving up, if you're in an organization that understands that the high performance part is the most important part, then you're so lucky. You're you're you're you're ahead of the game. If you're an organization that says, Oh, we gotta play up so we attract better kids, it doesn't matter if we lose, and it doesn't matter if we ever touch the puck, we just have to have the status that we're in this other division. You uh mark my words, and if if you listen to this, send me the statistics, you are losing all your kids anyway. You're losing them because you can't compete. So when you try to run a pro when you when you're a parent, you go to a program that plays up and you know you're like oh boy, okay, we're in this league and we shouldn't be in the league, but you know, it looks good and it and it and I guess we gotta be in the league, and then you get your doors blown off for the year, you're losing all those kids. Now, whether you're losing and maybe you're not losing them physically, but you're you're not developing them, you're not helping them. And I think that's what all of us are so scared about. Like me, when I look, you know, other than the anxiety of me not being a good parent with my son moving up because I'm uh a crazy person, that I I my anxiety is more can my kids be in a great situation to have a the philosophy that I feel comfortable with and then be comfortable with it.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

And not fake it, not like go, okay, guys, we're gonna this is gonna be a year that we're just gonna we're gonna grin and bear it, we're gonna, we're gonna put on our 78,000 miles on the car. You ever see that you ever see that Facebook uh joke where the the guy goes to turn his car in, they're like, oh, this car has 195,000 miles on it and it's only two years old. Because I'm a hockey, I'm a hockey parent. I'm a hockey.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

So he says, My kids play hockey.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

So, but again, and I and I and I and probably the reason I wanted to get on this podcast to begin with is I want to debunk that. Like that doesn't need to be the case. We choose it. So moving up, I guess it goes right back to pick your program, but the anxiety of moving up is like it's like anything else. Communicate to your kids, prepare your kids, and then support your kids. Like, right, yeah, you don't have to be the best player. Like, hey, listen, are you having fun? I love being here. Okay, well then then we're good. Or all the parents like say that again.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Say what you just said again. I I want everybody to hear you say that again.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

I don't know. Caitlin's gonna have to, she's gonna have to.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Your kid does not have to be the best player. That I think that is such an important thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Matter of fact, matter of fact, depending on where you're at, it might be better to not be the best player. I can guarantee you that. Yeah, I can guarantee that. Listen, there there are great players that continue to be great players, they're always great players, they're always the best kid. No, like everybody always says, Well, at some point you're not gonna be the best player. Well, I'm sure they said to Wayne Gretzky, too, right? Yeah, and they're saying to Connor Badard, hey, you know what? At some point you're not gonna be the best player. Well, I am, I'm the best player.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Well, here's here's the other thing, too, though, you know, about those guys, Mike, and I think it's important the best players, if they're truly the best players, they're gonna lift up the players around them and not just be the solo best player.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Well, so think about that. Okay, let's let's can I can I just hit on that one second, Chris? Yeah, you when you hear a parent say, Oh, Mike, like I I I get this, I get this a lot. I I should actually write down all the times I get it. If I put my kid in this program, he's just too good for this team. He's like, like, isn't it gonna hold him back? I'm like, it only holds him back if you tell him how great he is and that he's too good for the team. It doesn't hold him back if you say, Oh my god, what an opportunity we have here. We get to we get to be in a lower cost organization. We don't have to travel as much because you're not, you know, I don't have to put you as a now the twelve the twelfth player on the elite team. You get to learn leadership skills, power play, penalty kill. You're gonna be the kid in the locker room that everybody looks up to. You're gonna be the kid that says, Oh my god, thank God you're here. We thought you weren't coming today. Like to me, like that's there's so much, and I and I'll tell you, I don't know who's on the study, and I've read this a hundred times, but if somebody sends it to us, like young males, boys, just need this sooner and more often than girls. I don't know why that is, but it's just that girls get it later, I think. But but for for young boys, that that feeling that they're the man, that they're the leader, that they're they have some swagger, that goes such a long way in building who they're gonna be later on. And instead of the beating down you know, oh you're not gonna you're not good enough or you're the you're you know, just be happy where you're at, make sure your kids are healthy and and and and energized. But more importantly, if you put yourself in a situation, because here's the thing, I would much rather see a parent waver on the side of being on a team that's not as good and your kids the best, other than a team that now he's not, you know, or he's too good and this kid's, you know, the kid's the better player, than on a team that he's not that good and you're spending 50% more time getting there and traveling and not knowing the community. And and frankly, a team that maybe you're gonna be on for one year. Like I'd rather see a player stick with it, learn in the environment they're in, uplift the environment they're in. I I listen, I'm having the same conversation with lacrosse right now. Second graders that are better than third graders, and they're like, we gotta move up. Yeah, but then what happens to the second graders? Like, don't you want to be with your teammates? Don't you want to be your classmates? So you want to be with the kids that eventually, because it's gonna catch up. It's gonna catch up. Like, at what point do you say, Oh, now uh now I now need to leave? Well, you're gonna leave anyway. So leave now. Like just or stay, stay and develop your kid and be the best player in an organization. Now, when you get to 15, 16, when it matters, yeah, you gotta compete. You gotta, you, you do have to listen, you gotta be in a place where you're gonna battle and and and and and get a little grit and and you know, learn that your consequent the consequences of you doing things and not doing things definitely and you learn that along the way.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

I I do want to say, Mike, if those of you watching, Christy's in the newsroom right now. We only have a couple minutes left because she's gonna get through her hand. I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

I do want to jump in on a little point about, and this is fantastic that you mentioned development. And I just want to just kind of hone in on there a little bit. Um, and I've seen this so much over the years. Parents don't have pages, they have to understand that development is a process, it's not instantaneous. So when your kids are starting out with an E, you know, you've moved on, it's a higher level of play, and you think, well, they're just not you needed to be pages because long before your kids got a good work ethic like my kids did, they are gonna work their to get to develop and get those skill levels and then in in a month, like you're given a month. You're gonna see an improvement in two months, and you're like, wait, and look back at a videotape that you might have taken when they first started, and you're gonna see marked differences of your gas patient, and you know, and still in the yeah, you gotta work harder. I guess what? Yeah, you're not as good as that kid. You you just gotta put the work in it, and before you know it, they adapt, they adjust. Yes, Mike's gotta say, yes, Professor, Professor Bennelli.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

And if they don't, yeah, they don't just buy development. Like, I can't believe like, and that's the hockey problem, right? It's the ROI. It's like I've invested, I've done this, I've done that. Yeah, but it doesn't matter. It it's nothing, you can't do anything about it. You just have to give the path in your case, pay for it as long as you have to, and then and then they did, and then they make the best out of it. But to your point, is exactly the and that's where we're all listen, that's where we're all losing patience. I just had a conversation the other day, right, about text messaging. Like a text message is an email, and email is not a text message, like so. Don't email me and expect me to email you back. So that's the same thing, it's patience. Like, just this is the this is a a process, like one weekend does not make your program, right? But and and I'll tell you right now, and Lee mentioned it, and Lee mentioned it earlier. One year doesn't make your your your life. It could be good and bad, it could be the worst year of your life, but let's all learn and use it.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

It it's true in life and beyond hockey. And and look, I'll say this too, and Christy, you said about development, being patient. Sometimes they're gonna go backwards before they go forwards. And again, we're very accepting of this when our babies are learning to walk. Uh, I we need to subscribe to that lifelong. I mean, life, life works that way, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Or if you work out, if you're in a weight room and you you're trying to get you're trying to get must, you know, if you're a bodybuilder, there is a plateau. There's time where absolutely patience has to come, and then you wait and it comes back, and then you wait and it comes back.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Well, and Mike, I'll say this. I like to say this a lot the permission to be patient. You know, parents, I'm speaking to you. You've got to give yourself permission to be patient. You don't have to rush the whole process. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

You know, you're talking to me. Hard though. Oh, it's very hard.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

But but but like most things, you gotta practice it. It doesn't just snap it. If you practice patience, you'll become more patient. Look, final note for me, because Christy, I know we got to get you out of here. Um, this is just my final piece of advice, and and this is in the work that I do. I might be a young hockey parent, but I have been coaching hockey for 20 years. And I will tell you all this that parents, do not spend the year playing the what if game. When you're on a team, you're on the team. Doesn't matter what level it is, age, letters behind it. Do not spend the whole season. Well, if you were on this team, if you were on that team, don't let your kids say, Well, if I had made this team, do not play that game. You're on the team you're on. You got to make the best of it, even if it's a bad situation. That you want to talk about ROI, long-term ROI, that kid will be way more prepared for life uh when life throws the bad situation and you don't get the job or the title or this grade that you want, you'll know how to deal with it. The ROI on hockey has nothing to do with making it in hockey. You are paying to develop the life skills of your child. And I guarantee you that if you kind of go at it with that mindset, they will succeed, right? If you go at it with the wrong mindset, they're they're destined to be in a lot of pain.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Yeah. All right, and I'm gonna circle back to the very beginning of our conversation because you know, I'm at the end of my hockey mom career. Okay, I just ended, and I was in that pot of gold, right? I found the pot of gold. But while I was going through it all those years and years and years, I lived in the rainbow.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

I love that. That's good.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

All right, that's good. Look at that pot of gold, but don't forget to live in the t-shirt with Christian cards. Live in the rainbow.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

I like it. Yeah, you're always after her legendary. Don't forget that. No, actually, because that's brilliant. I'm gonna I'm gonna end it on that one.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Oh, and I do have over 135,000 miles on my vehicle.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

That's not that's beautiful. How many Hilton honors points do you have? That's what I want to do. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

All of them I think I got a free trip to Italy.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Yeah, when she walks in, they go, Oh, Mrs. Cassio's birds. Um, listen, just to close this out, uh uh, we do want to do an episode on kind of that movement from uh non-hitting to hitting. We'll do an episode on that of what happens when you're stepping up to actual physical contact in the game in that year prior. Uh, we used it called Pee-Wee of learning how to do that. That's a separate episode. But I think today's goal was to give some general uh you know thoughts about hey, what happens when my kid's moving up to the age, the next age level. I think we accomplished that. We we got it from the fairy godmother herself who rides rainbows and flies around Christophe furns and uh and Big Man Benelli, who who just knows what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

Big man Benelli.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Big man Benelli. I'm gonna use that. Um and I I want to say again to both of you, thank you both, because uh a lot of the insight I have on this comes from you two and doing the show, right? And it's one of those things, it's the experience that you don't really know what you're talking about. But having gone through three seasons now, um, I can see a lot of it, and I'm thankful daily that I have the insight of you two and our audience that have sent over messages to help us with that. So um again, shoulder episode today. Again, if you're watching, Christy's in full anchor here. She's about to jump on the news. Christy, thank you for being here tonight. We always appreciate it. Good luck. Um she's looking for something, but I was looking for my uh my microphone.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

I don't have it here.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Actual microphone, no. But uh look, feel free to we we gave you lots of uh reasons to email us this week, whether you agree with us or disagree with Mike, because most people agree with us. Uh no, I'm just kidding. If you disagree with any of us, email us.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

No, no, most people disagree with me. I get it, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

I like I don't disagree with you, Mike. I think you can't.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

I want to hear about that 10-year reunion, though.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Okay, wait. I'm organized, I'm organizing it. It's only it's only $6.95 a per per head. And you can use your health and honors.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Yeah, I was just gonna say that. All right, so that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Remember, all the episodes are available, our kidsplayhockey.com. If you're looking for some great coaches, dip into season gifts, check out our kidsplayhockey.com. They're there. Uh, other than that, we'll see you next week. Everybody have a great weekend. We'll talk to you soon. Take care, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, ourkidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at when hockey stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. Thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.