Inside PlayWellMinds: How Henrik Cronebäck and Johan Fallby Are Changing Mental Training for Teens

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Leah Elias, joined by Mike Vinelli. Christy Cassiana Burns is on assignment today. You know, mental fitness is one of the most popular topics on our show. It is by far the most listened to and the most requested subject by you, the audience. And because of that, we're bringing you two guests today who can help take that conversation from theory to practice and give you actionable steps to bring it to your club or your family. We all know it's important. If you listen to the show, we know you believe in it. But we want to start doing more than just acknowledging it exists. So joining us from Sweden, which is across the ocean, if you're in America or North America, are Henrik Kronobach and Dr. Johan Falby, the founders of Playwell Minds, a science-backed mental training platform that helps young athletes build focus, confidence, and emotional balance through short, structured routines. Parents listening. All of you want that. The work is already being used by schools, clubs, and sports organizations across Europe, and it's quickly becoming a model for what daily mental training could look like for athletes in every sport, including our beloved game of ice hockey. So today we're not talking why mental fitness matters. We're talking about how to actually train it, measure it, and build it into your season like you would skating or shooting on the ice, doing all these clinics that you do. We're gonna get into that today. Henrik Johan, welcome to our kids play hockey. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Yes, glad to be here. We are glad to have you. I'm gonna tell you this right now. Our audience is gonna love those accents. I know I have an accent to you, but uh there's something about that, that, that, that cadence. It makes you sound great, makes you sound smart. But let's jump here, guys. Henrik Johan, you built Playwell Minds on the idea that mental fitness should be as routine as practice. That's something we talk about. You have to work out the mind. What what was the gap that you saw? What triggered this in youth sports that made you realize it was time to like do something about it, not just talk about it?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah, I can start. So um I have uh two girls uh born 2010, twins. And everything started like three years ago when they were 12. And I had an idea that you know, could we teach uh them? And when I say them, actually the whole team that I was coaching in something called floorball, which is kind of a an indoor hockey type of thing that we play here over in Europe. It's uh it's a plastic ball and plastic stick, yeah, five against five, goalie and everything. I mean, you might have seen it. Oh, I played it. Um, you played it fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Very similar but different than hockey. A lot, a lot of people try and play hockey, and it's like, no, it's a perimeter game, and you really got to know your sport. I will say this though, for all the hockey parents listening, uh, I believe a floorball stick and a floorball are the best trainer for hands, like quick hands, yeah, over anything. But that is a totally different episode. I will let you get back to your point. That was a good point.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Uh no, so uh had an idea that you know, can you train mental strength in the same way as you train the technical skills, the physio skills, and stuff like that. So I was looking for something for teens and had the idea that it needs to be a little bit fun, a little bit inspirational, and we need to do it over time with repetition. Because if we want to learn something, it needs to be over time with repetition. So was out there looking for you know different apps, different books, different programs, didn't really find anything that was suitable, so I decided to um read a number of books, uh actually, you know, growth mindset, stuff like that, uh, and then sports psychology and put together my own program for this team. Uh, presentations, living room, gave them pen and paper, and we met once a month over seven months. And I was thinking, you know, now I have done my thing, hopefully, they have learned something, check in the box, go back to be just a normal coach. What happened then was they said actually, this was not only fun, but also helped both on the pitch on the field when they were playing, but also in school. So they said, Yeah, we want to continue. Can we have this as an ongoing thing, part of our training? And I felt like, yes, thumbs up, you know, something works here. Uh, do I have the time? No, I don't have the time. Something must exist. So um I actually went out and started looking again for solutions. This was summer 23, and uh didn't find anything. And then I spoke with colleagues uh across actually the globe, uh been part of international companies. But everyone said that, you know, Henrik, if you find something, could you let me know? Because my son or my daughter, the team, you know, our class, you know, it would be fantastic if they could use something like this. Um, so after summer 23, I thought, hmm, you know, is this maybe something that I should work with? Because I love sports, I love mental strength, and I love to work with young teenagers. Um, but was uh clever enough to understand that actually don't know so much about the area. I probably need someone who's an expert. And then I found uh Juhan Falbi, sports psychologist, and we started to discuss this um during winter 23-24, uh, together also with another uh psychologist, um, clinic psychologist, Lisa, also from Sweden, and uh yeah, started to explore and work uh on something. And again, we have the idea from the beginning that to be able to get these um target group, which are you know a fantastic group of people that want to be sports uh kind of you know uh athletes, uh, how do we make it something that they do every day? How do you make mental strength, mental fitness to be part of the daily habit? That was the key thing. Um, so we worked on on a number of different topics and ideas, and it ended up being an app with a program, uh, four teens. Um, and we were kind of saying, like, think Duolingo, but for mental strength, you know, how to make it a little bit fun and inspirational and do it a little bit every day over time, over time, over time. So that that's the background.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Yeah, I'm wondering, like uh based off of you know, you're reaching out, Johan, to to you, right, as the as a professional in the industry and working with all these pro players, as I'm I'm hearing you know the evolution of you know the program, you know, it's almost like you want to uh the pro players for the most part, right, have already found the tools in a lot of ways to get them where they are, right? So to bring this back down to the youth level and give them the guidance. Can you talk a little bit about you know the influence of the pro side of the of the athletes you work with and how you you interjected that into you know the youth uh you know focus on on the app and the program?

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yeah, that's uh that's a great question. And uh I've been working for 25 years with pro athletes in uh yeah, mainly in soccer, but in lots of other sports, ice hockey obviously as well. It's a it's a great sport in Sweden. But um I think uh lots of young athletes, young people, they are not encountering psychology in the right way in the young age. It's uh it's uh it's about problems, it's about illness, it's about not feeling well. But uh the pro-athletes, they also find how to work with the positive side of it and and also they have the the tools, as you say, to work with it. They get nervous all the time, even though they have the tools, but they have the right perspective or they have a perspective that suits them, that they have been practicing on for many years. So the thing is that if we can teach the kids earlier on to have a view on psychology and on themselves and make them self-aware earlier, then they will have more time to teach themselves and and be taught by by the networks around them, the grown-ups around them, so that they can handle these tough situations, not only in sport but also in life. So we are just taking like the systematic way of looking at psychology and also the positive sides of psychology, putting it in the right perspective for the for the kids. So, and what was amazing when I'm at Henrik is that I've been approached so many times by different people and and and organizations uh trying to do this before, and it's it's been too complicated and too much focus on you have to do this, you have to learn, yeah, you can't get nervous and so on. But we are using the CBT, the cognitive behavioral therapy as as a standing point or or or ground for this, and that makes it it makes it more look like regular training, technical or tactical training, and uh something that you can do on the pitch or on the eyes or in the dressing room. So we're just putting it out in the right perspective and making it interesting and and fun for the kids, I think.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Yeah, you you know, you said something a little earlier that I think um resonates with me as a and and certainly Lee, right, as a hockey coach. And that is, you know, approaching this from the perspective of not reactionary, like you're getting ahead of this, training the athletes to be in this mindset that's not like, oh my god, there's a problem, I'm not mentally fit, I'm I'm weak and I'm nervous, and I and I but then then by that time, you have a lot more building to do, I'm imagining, um, than to proactively grab an athlete. Just like if I want to have a power skater and a great shooter and somebody with great hockey IQ, I can't go to them after the fact that they've have all these other learned behaviors and unteach them those skills. I think is that is that really the premise of you know getting I I know, like Henrik, I know that we know based off of my own research, right, and seeing the app, it's really based off that teenage years. You know, when I, you know, again, obviously you could start younger and it, I'm sure it helps with older, but those teenage years are really the the sweet spot of when we're working with our the most athletes we have. Uh, can you talk a little bit about you know how important it is to be proactively looking at this and not presenting it in a negative way, but actually in a in a very positive way? Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

I just have to say it's it's so fun working as a sports psychologist. Uh coming towards the end of the season is always very profitable because then the then the teams will be calling you, yeah, we need help, we have to win the championships. Uh, can you please come now? And they think you have a magic wand or something. Uh, but it's it doesn't work like that at all, Mike. Because no, you have to work it long term, and then uh starting at a young age, then you will yeah, we'll get ahead, I think. And and uh I also think that people will have uh they will use this all their their life, you know, the methods, the the the way of thinking, changing perspectives and the psychological flexibility. Uh it's I think it's like any any other thing, you have to learn it. I mean, you can't start skating, you know, it's the playoffs. Let's start skating now, let's uh train some skating, you know. It's impossible. Sorry, Henrik, I interrupted.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

No, but you are spot on. I mean, and that's the whole thing. How because the thing is also that mental health, if you say mental health to them, they think it's about a problem, you know, I'm feeling nervous, I shouldn't feel nervous, and stuff like that. So, one of the first things we do when we uh work with these uh young uh adults and teens uh is you know, feelings and thoughts will always be there. I mean, that's number one. It doesn't matter if you are me in this podcast, or if you are a 12-year-old or an eight-year-old or a 17-year-old, feelings and thoughts, you will always have them. What you learn is how to handle them and how to work out uh you know, uh the situation that you have in front of you in the best possible way. That's mental strength. And I think just understanding that piece as a teen is like a relief a little bit. It's like, whoa, uh you know, so you say that this is kind of normal because when you get like 12, 13, 14, and uh you know the brain starts to develop really to be an adult and it does that for a number of years ahead, uh, that's when you start to really think that you are the only one having these feelings. You know, I'm the only one nervous in the dressing group. I'm the only one nervous can I play this game? No, you're not. Everyone has these kind of feelings, and actually they will stay forever. You just lean, you you will learn how to handle them, and that's what we try to do in a you know in this age. So, and again, we know also that if we can learn them these types of things, or at least introduce them to these type of things in this age, hopefully actually will stay for the rest of their life. You know, the things you learn around 13 to 17, 18 will be things that you actually remember. That's why I started with mental strength for my own twins. I read a book when I was 15 that I got from my father about mental strength that you know I remembered. So I want to do kind of something for my own kids, uh, for the own team.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Uh I I love that you're bringing this up because you know, I actually want to give a shout-out to my father. Um, you know, I was very blessed. My father got an early retirement right at that age for me, right 13, 14. Um, so we spent a lot of time together, a lot of car rides. Now, I gotta prove this, I'm in no way perfect or anything like that, but I benefited so much from the conversations he would have with me uh in the car, at home, uh, because he was going through his own little mental fitness journey at that time and and just sharing with me what he was learning. And, you know, now in my 40s, I look back and I realize, wow, that was not only was I a sponge at that age, I was really taking it in. And parents, I might not have always looked like I was taking it in. I think that's also an important thing. Sometimes we think the kids aren't listening, but they they're retaining more than you probably think they are. Um, they're just they're giving it to other people, not back to you, right? But but um those those years, um, and it really is such a short amount of time, uh, are so important. And look, parents play a role, coaches play a role, teammates play a role. Uh, you know, Johan, you made a great point. I was working with a with a pro team in England one year, and we had this, I you know, I won't tell the whole story, but we had a very dramatic championship. It was amazing. Uh, we weren't picked to win. And I remember someone asking us, uh, oh, what did you do before the playoffs to prepare? I go, before the playoffs, we were doing this stuff for preseason. We were doing mental fitness training camps in preseason to prepare for this. Um, and when people start to hear that and realize that it's real eye-opener. You know, I want to say this too, Henry, going back to the first question. Um, it's funny how the place we're at with mental fitness. I like to use the word mental fitness because I I think there's an understanding of that, right? Um, you know, long time ago, there was a guy named Lloyd Percival, a little hockey history here for everybody. And he wrote the hockey training handbook, right? And when you look at this training handbook today, it's all the physical stuff you need to do for training for training for hockey. And if you read that now in late 2025, it looks like the most basic, obvious things to do, right? Like you gotta work on your skating if you want to be better at hockey, right? But when this book came out, every elite coach around the world was writing him letters. Please send me a copy of your book because no one had ever done it before. So all these things now, you can really trace that at least that point back to Lloyd Percival. Everything we do now, almost 100 years ago, kind of stemmed from someone writing the book of what we deem obvious. I I feel like we are so at that point right now with mental fitness, where people go, Oh, we all we need this, but I don't know where to start. So you guys made Playwell Minds. Like, I would I would love for you to share with the audience some of those tactics that you use or just at least a broad overview of hey, here's the here's the things we're looking at. Because in a hundred years, when people listen to this podcast again, they're gonna be like, That that's Playwell Minds a hundred years ago started this book. I'll throw it back to you guys, Henrik. I'll start with you.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

No, but I I I think kind of spot on because it's not like we have came up with new techniques or or new things. We have taken what exists from an evidence and research perspective. So we know that this kind of works. We just took them and packaged them so that actually works for this group for the teenagers and make it again fun, inspirational. So it takes you through uh a seven-step program, everything from just calm and mindfulness. You know, how do you tell a 14-year-old that, you know, now we're gonna talk about breathing and why that's important? And they will just go back and say, you know, you know, I've been breathing since I was born. What are you gonna tell me about this that is relevant? Uh and stuff like that. So exercise around that and give some examples from uh so, for example, when we work with the ice hockey, you know, NHL players or or Swedish players talking about the importance of working with the breeding when you are nervous or or or depressed or or really you know angry, whatever it could be. You know, we're on the bench and and the referee did something terrible and you are just super angry, you know, just start with breeding to get calmed down. Uh then we work with acceptance and situations, which is CBT, uh, you know, where where the foundation of this is. So accept doesn't mean that you like it, it means that we don't judge it. We just we just work with the thought that is coming to you. And by accepting, it actually means that we actually don't pay so much attention and work with it. We can get back to focus and behavior. Um, then we go into goals. Uh, we talk about uh performance and behavior goals instead of just talking about the outcome result goals. Outcome and results we all know about, you know, it's everything from grades in school to winning a game or whatever it is. But if we focus on the process, the performance in in a in an interesting way, um we think and we actually know that they will probably stay longer in the sports because they're focusing on themselves and what they can do and what they can impact. Then we talk about evaluation. You know, how do we evaluate the game? Uh, we are expert on saying to ourselves that we didn't do this, we didn't do this, we didn't do this, and we missed there, and you know, all the things that is negative. Here we help them to understand that that's fine, you know, the negative part or the developing parts is helping you forward, but let's just get some energy on the things that actually work quite well this game. Um, and then we talk about uh celebration. You know, how do we celebrate? Um, I don't know how it is in your area, but where where I come from, we if we lose a game, then it's like 20 minutes in the locker room and discussing why we lost the game. If we win the game, then it's like one minute, applaud, uh, see you on Tuesday, next game. Um you know, we don't we need we need to stop and actually think about you know, we won the game, what would you do? You know, well-being, you know, build up your you know uh confidence. Uh we did great things, you know, stop and be in that moment for some time. Um so yeah, a number of different tools. Um, but I think the the the key pieces, how do you get them out to the teens in a fun, inspirational way? So we a lot of exercises, a lot of things in an app, so they can do things on their you know when they're home in the car, uh, and and work with this and and get it to be again uh a fun habit. And then to make it a fun habit, we need to put in some gamification. So tweaks and stuff like that, and medals and collect stuff. Yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Sometimes I think adults roll their eyes at that. We do we need gamification too. We use that all everybody uses gamification all the time. Um, you know, it just makes it a little easier to go. But I love all the stuff that you're saying, man, because it is so important that we incorporate this as coaches into our curriculum. You know, you know, another point you made about feelings, and I always like to tell coaches that you know, one of the most powerful questions you can ask an athlete is tell me what you're feeling right now, and get them to acknowledge or at least just shout out, I'm angry. Whatever it is. And Henrik, you alluded to this. As soon as you shout out what you're feeling or call it out, you almost immediately will get control over it. Right? It's when it's hijacking your mind that it becomes so hard for, especially children, they might not even know what they're feeling, they might not even be aware of it. So, what are you feeling right now is a very powerful question to be asking those kids. And I also love what you said about you know, the the congregation, I call it after games, um, of just focusing on what we did wrong, opposed to focusing on the the game as a whole, right? And I I think again, coaches, you can do this. You you can dive into this, focus on feelings a little bit more. It's a powerful tool because last thing I'll say, and I'll throw it to Mike for the next question, is this is that you can't understand positive feelings if you don't experience negative feelings. You gotta think about you wouldn't even know they're positive if you don't know what negative it is. You can't have light without dark, right? And I think that the last 30 years has been don't feel that way, don't feel that way. That is the worst thing you can say to a kid.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

And it's impossible. I mean, we are human beings. I mean, we will have negative feelings, right? It's part of our brain, that's how we work. Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

So unfortunately, the first so it's as part of as so as part of the having the podcast, you know, we we get the opportunity to have some free therapy here, Johan. And Uh I was I was I was hoping, you know, we could we could talk a little bit about, you know, you talked earlier, like we all know that there's gonna be stress, right? We know that there is like there's there's there's there's stress in in everything we're doing for the players. And what we want to be able to do is like talk to parents, coaches, and players on how to deal with that stress, you know, in a positive or negative way, acknowledging it like we just said. Um, but when when what are some of the signs we can see that like that like there's a positive stress, right? We want that that we want that competition stress, but then there's a then there's a oh I hate being here now. Like I don't want to be here anymore, burnout stress. Yeah, like where can we see on that line and maybe a little talk about your program and how maybe it helps coaches and players identify that?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah, that's a that's a really ten thousand dollar question because we are all different. So uh you have your your way of the of dealing with this, and I have my way. And uh another thing that's really difficult, difficult as well, is that uh you think that you can see if people are nervous or not. With some people you can, but some people are really good to hide it, so you don't really know where they are. So maybe the guy that's bouncing around in the dressing room talking to everybody, you know, he could be the most nervous one, or the other one sitting just in the corner, he could be the just uh the most nervous one. So it's actually about uh getting to know yourself, and uh also I I love that I mean you have to acknowledge the the feelings and and thoughts you have, and not only asking how you're feeling right now, the next next uh question is uh acknowledging that feeling. Okay, I can see you're sad, I understand you're sad. It's normal to be sad or happy. I I can, you know, whatever feeling you have, acknowledge it and and discuss it and be with the with the players uh with their feelings and thoughts and uh start to uh make them interested in why they are feeling this way, why they are thinking in this way. And then you can start to talk about it in the team together with each other. And I think it's a wonderful thing. I mean, I've worked with the Olympic athletes and NHL players or or elite athletes in different sports, and and it's wonderful to see a room where they're talking about how they feel and they are actually nervous and they feel scared and they are they just want to run away. It's uh it's 5-5, we have to win, it's sudden death. I mean, you know, we we really need to perform our best now, and I just don't want to be here. So as soon as you start to do that, you can also uh lower the threshold of of that negative anxiety as you're talking about. I mean, you don't need to be uh negatively affected by the by the stress. You you can it can also be a force with you. And uh if you understand why you get this stress and and how it looks for you, then you can also uh change perspective and then work with it. And that's what the the elite athletes do.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Uh and they found their way, but we also know that some elite athletes never find their way. I mean, they are getting through years and years of anxiety disorder, and then after they are they quit, they can go out and say, I was a mess for 10 years, winning that gold medal was terrible, but I made it, but now I'm so relieved it's over. So it's about individual work and talking to each other, acknowledging. And I think you said some great things about I did some some uh uh writing here, but the network, the adults talking about this, acknowledging, asking, being interested, and also letting the teens start to speak with each other and understand I'm not alone. I can I mean I can yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

I just want to follow up on one thing because I think you know, because because from our perspective, I mean, being on the show and having so many great guests and really working with elite of the elite, like the best athletes in the world, come on and talk. And all too often, and I and I guess this is something probably we have to go to a different show on, but it seems like like they're they all had like these anxiety, this stress, this feeling that you know it wasn't like the i I can't reach the top. And they do, they they're gold medalists, Stanley Cup champions, PWHL champions. And then we look at it and go, well, maybe that is part of being a champion. You know, maybe that is like that. But it but but I think that's I think that's just it's the same thing when we look and say, oh, that one like I watched 700 kids try out, and the one kid made it. And we all say, Well, that's the one kid I want to emulate. And I think is that kind of the same feeling? Like, there's a lot of like the athletes you'll run into who win an Olympic gold medal, the feeling shouldn't be, oh, that's a relief that this is out of my world now. Like I'm so glad I don't have to deal with the the fame and the fortune and the and the the accolades of being a champion because that's not the norm, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:12

No, no, okay. It's that's true. But uh I just uh going back a little bit. I mean, uh I'm working in Moodle. Maybe that's familiar with you, Moodle in Sweden, Peter Forschberry and the Sandin twins and and so on. And uh we're actually working with the playbook now, or thinking of introducing not only how to play the pack and score some goals in the playbook, but also having leadership, for example, in the playbook, and that's great individual leadership for the players, but also for the coaches and also mental skills and and also others. How are we building the environment that will create our way of playing? So it goes hand in hand. And I think we have to go back to those uh building those environments, performant environments, and then start teaching the in the talent department, start teaching these skills alongside with other skills like yeah, leadership, for example. So if you start earlier, we give them uh greater chance of of yeah reaching that gold medal somewhere in the future.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

You know, I I I want to I'm writing my own notes down here, too, guys. And a few notes.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Fantastic conversation, I have to say.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Yeah, no, that's how you know it's good. Um, there are uh one of the coolest things to watch and experience is a high-level professional athlete at the moment of the most stress, whatever that is, completely get control of that nervous side of their mind. I don't want to say move it aside, but they get control and they are able to kind of eliminate that from their psyche for a moment to execute. And when you meet someone like this, you realize this is something they work on more often than not. Now, I'll make myself vulnerable for the audience a little bit here too, right? I coach at some pretty high levels, and I've always said that if you don't think that there are voices in my head from time to time going, What are you doing here? Why do you you don't belong here? I still hear those all the time, but I have worked to recognize them, kind of acknowledge them. That's the right word. I acknowledge that I'm hearing them, and then I tell them to screw off, basically. That's kind of my mental process. It took a long time to practice that so that I could focus on what's important. The other thing, too, this is another thing I tell kids when we talk about feelings. Well, I'm I'm nervous. This is a big moment. You know what I say back to them? That's great. You're nervous because you care. All right. In fact, if you didn't, if you weren't nervous in the gold medal game championship game in overtime, I that would be a little weird to me, right? It would be a little off you'd be off for not having those feelings right now, but you're nervous because you care. How great is that? Now we've turned it into something else, right? Um, I also wrote this too, that, and I'm gonna give a great example. I've got a young goaltender in my program right now. She just turned 14. Um, and we were in a very high-stakes game recently. Um, she played the semifinal to get us to the final. I did not play her in the final, and we had this tremendous conversation after the game in which she didn't play because we're we're we're trying to help her grow, right? We're trying to help her become the best goalie she can be. And I said, You felt all the feelings. This is what we talked about of that championship game, even though you were not in the net that game. And I said, You can never discount that experience because the next time you are in the game, you will have experienced those emotions. You know what's coming your way, and now we can start to work and build on them. And and she it Mike knows her, she's so mature that she was like, Wow, I, you know, that's an amazing thought. Now I do understand that I've experienced the emotion. I trained the emotional side of it for her because we want her to be in the big games eventually, right? At her age right now, it's not we're not there yet, right? But we're emotionally, mentally training these kids. It's not just her. I have other young athletes on these teams as well. But I just wrote that down that that this is something that can be unlocked. We talked about gamification. I always like telling kids, hey, new emotion unlocked. Great, yeah. You're feeling you're feeling apprehension. That's amazing, right? Um, and and it can be fascinating, right? How fascinating that you're you're feeling this way. Um, so this leads me to my next question, right? And I'm gonna talk directly to the parents. I want us all to talk to the parents. Parents have to understand your kids are aware of mental fitness, mental health, mental strength. More aware than any generation in the history of mankind. Okay? For those of you who love the tough love approach, or the I've gotta break them down to build them up, I won't go into the psychological problems that that caused throughout human history. But what I'm trying to bring up now is this because the children are aware, that tactic in its its extreme form has now the opposite effect that it used to have. I know that, you know, look, if you grew up during the war or wars, like look, stiff upper lip, tough times. I'm not I am not negating that. When you got to put food on the table, when when life is hard, you have got to persevere. I I acknowledge that. But you are dealing with a generation of kids who know that this exists, that tactic does not work. They're finding now that positive emotional reinforcement does work, and we have to stop saying that's being soft. You're being soft by acknowledging feelings. There is a way to do this, right? There's also an extremely other way where you cannot be, oh, are you feeling upset? Let's always like that. You can't do that either. You got to find the balance line, right? And so what I want to talk about here is what parents can do. Parents, you'll learn a lot about this, by the way, a lot about yourself in this practice as well. But that approach is apparent. And the last thing I'll say, Michael laugh at this, we'll all have this, keeping in mind that your kids will also always listen to the other parents and the other coaches more than they'll listen to you. Because it does take a village to do this. What are the things the parents can do to help their kids emotionally regulate, build mental fitness? You know, the play well minds approach. And uh Henrik, we'll start with you because we're going back and forth.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

Sorry, I need to put this to you on because this is Yuan's expertise. He he you know, he'd written books about this. Dr. Beef will go to you. This is you know, this is his uh home run frame.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Lots of uh you know popping up in my head, so there's so many things. I wrote a book a couple of years ago. Yeah, yeah. There's no reason. It's gonna be a sequel, but it's gonna be a sequel. I wrote a book, uh I wrote a book called uh uh uh Do It Better Yourself if you can. Uh I wrote that uh a couple of years ago, and uh it's actually uh something I said to my father when I was playing table tennis. I I played table tennis at uh uh yeah uh I was top hundred, ranked top hundred uh yeah, la last century it was, so it's a long time ago. But um when I was younger. Let me write down never to play you on table tennis real quick. All right, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Yeah, no, but uh I was uh playing when I was maybe eight years old and I was playing and losing my first uh losing the first set in the game, and my father came down to the table and gives to give me some advice, and he gave me 100 advice in in two seconds. I just gave him my racket and said, Okay, do it by yourself if you can. And then that that he my father I don't remember that uh episode actually, but my father told me this, and then I wrote the book, and I that was the perfect um uh title for the book because I think it's sports is a fantastic stage for kids to grow because it's there are rules, there are grown-ups, there are training, there are teams, I mean groups. I mean, there's so many things that you can learn there, and where you can try your wings, so to speak, without the parents being present, just sitting there observing, not getting into the situation, because it's a fantastic situation to be for the kid to prove that they can develop and try things. So I normally say that. I mean, it's really important that you're there, that you're present as a as a parent, watching that the environment is sound and good, and that you know the coaches are treating the kids well and they are, you know, it's a good team to group with the with the kids. But um just be there, be present, but don't take over because it's it's actually the kid that will have his or her own uh career, so to speak, or development within this fantastic environment when you find a good sporting environment. So I think that's the best advice you can get as a parent. Be there, check it's safe, and then let your your kid develop there. And then, as we said before, ask questions, encourage, be there, asking how you're feeling. I can see you're sad. It's okay to be sad. I love when you're happy, I enjoy every second when you're happy. You know, just be there reinforcing and and be around, check it's everything is okay, and then don't be present all the time. I mean, nowadays in Sweden they they actually send uh yeah, in different apps, they send games for 10-year-olds uh so everybody can watch them. And I think that's sad because kids think, okay, all my friends in school can see this championship game or this game. Uh I I have to perform, or oh, what what if I stumble or if I you know miss something, if I perform, you know, terrible, what will happen in school tomorrow? And it will take away all the joy and also the chance of being uh developing and and and being in this fantastic environment where you really can try things. It is it is that's my answer to a very complex question, but but be there, but don't take over.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

Just I I Mike, real quick, I don't think that's a bad answer, Johan. Like I said, less is more in this environment. Um, we always say, Mike, I'll throw it right back to you. We we always say the ROI on youth sports is your kid's gonna develop into a human being, and and that's really gotta be it for the first you know, several years of the journey, is it's a vehicle for your growth as a human being. If you're if you're putting pressure anything beyond that, and I will say this is my opinion, I believe you are making a mistake. All right, and it you cannot take the joy out of the game. And parents, we are parents and coaches are the biggest threat to doing that. It's not the kids, the kids are gonna play. All right, and and again, I'm I'm not pointing a finger at you, parents or coaches, directly. I'm just trying to make you aware we are the biggest threat to to that, to having the kids grow and use it as a vehicle. Sorry, Mike, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

No, no, I mean I I don't know when it happened, but it happened, right? That like I don't remember my father ever being at one of my practices. Ever. Like, I don't even I don't even I don't I think he'd be like, Why would I go to your practice? Like, I don't want to say like like you know, I got stuff to do, or oh, maybe maybe I'll make a game or two. Maybe, maybe I'll try to make a game. How'd you do last night? How was your game yesterday? Like, and I and now you're looked at as a parent if you're not at practice on the glass, and if you're not you know active in the game, they almost look at you like you don't care, or there's something wrong with you. I think that person's a genius.

SPEAKER_03 39:33

I tell them, man, you've got it right. I'm just kidding, parents.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

But it's it's it's a it's a unique, it's a unique thing to to know. Like, and I think uh Johan, you mentioned it too. It's that you know, the world of everything the kids do now is on camera, every skill that they have is on camera, every everything they do that's just great, or or you know, like I always feel bad, and maybe it's I don't know, maybe it's for my own upbringing. Who knows? I'll get my therapist to figure that out. But like when I see when I see a championship and I see somebody score, I always gravitate towards the goalie with his head down, the one that got scored on, and the defenseman that got beat on a horrific play, like you watch the player just get lit up, and you're like, oh my God, that that that that person now has to live with the same regret as the person that gets to live with the greatness of what they did forever and ever now, like on film forever. And you only ever used to see that at the pro level, but now you're seeing it the uh with 13-year-olds and 12-year-olds for the rest of their life. Yeah, you know, they have to see that kind of a play. But um, so one of the things that one of the things that attracted them. Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry, Henrik. Did you have a comment on it?

SPEAKER_01 40:39

No, I just want to say, I mean, that that's so right that what you said there, because I think that's also one of the reasons why this uh, you know, this group, these teens, these adolescents really want to learn this because they they feel all this back to what you said, Lee, before that, you know, they know about this, they know that this is something that puts pressure on them, and that's why I think they are so interested also to learn about how can I, you know, what kind of tools exist to start to handle these type of things that I feel or or think, stuff like that. So I just wanted to add it up. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, no, you know what I mean. Hold on.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

Just sorry, I I Henrik, you just made me think of something interesting. Mike, I'm sorry, you know when I interrupt you, I usually got something. Um, here's here's one for you. And and and I'm I'm actually putting this out there to see if anybody can can negate what I'm saying. There are plenty of stats to show what doesn't work. There are no stats that show that a good mental fitness education doesn't work. There's no stats that show that. Every stat shows that this practice is a positive for the future for anyone at any age that does it. Parents, you want something to do, coaches, you want something that works. There's no stat against what we're saying. There are plenty of stats against you telling a kid that they suck, that that does not work anymore.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Just gotta say that exactly, and and that was again, I wasn't planning to build something like this together with you on a team. I was looking for something like this because again, everyone was saying, if you find something, let me know. Because everyone knows that this actually will work, right? But you know, for some reason, no one had really put it together.

SPEAKER_03 42:23

Right. Well, and and Eric, I guess this too, you know, to the coach's credit, right? I I believe, I really believe this. Most coaches understand there's a need for this now, all right. But they they most of them do not understand how to do it. And I and I that's okay because just the acknowledgement of oh, okay, I really need to put this in my curriculum from a mental health standpoint. That is a massive step forward in terms of just humanity and sports, right? Now, I will say this to coaches, right? There is so much ability to learn how to do this. If you're serious about coaching, you will be serious about getting this practice into your curriculum, and you play a role in educating yourself in that, but also things like playwall minds, like these things exist. You know what I mean? Uh uh Mike knows this. I do a lot of work in this field, right? You should be jumping at every book, every opportunity to learn about this. And here's the funny part coaches, parents, everybody, you're you will benefit from it more than you ever thought possible. Ever. It will affect you in every aspect of your life. We're talking about youth hockey on this show. This is a this is a everything though topic. Okay, it's a life to absolutely. I'll get off my my soapbox real quick. I'll shoot it over. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Well, I mean, but I think that segues into what playwell minds, and one of the things that attracted me to find out more about the app and the program and the seven-week steps and everything is that they, you know, it's a it's a team-wide approach. I mean, we could talk a little, like an individual player, you can see they have uh uh, you know, they they need they need help uh in a certain aspect of their game and they can go see a person, but how does that it's almost like in a private lesson? Like I can certainly go help a kid stick handle, but then how does that help the team? Like, how does what I'm presenting to the player individually help the fact that we're on a team because the team is the one that has to perform, not just me. And could you talk a little bit about you know the individual approach, Henrik, on on, you know, it's a team-wide approach. The players, the athletes get to reflect on this individually. Um, maybe talk about the inner workings of how like the facilitator, the player, the coach kind of all work together to have the same messaging, but they have the opportunity to kind of find their own path individually. But it all comes back to building a better culture, uh building better communication portals, uh, build more accountability for the player, that ultimately helps the team.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

No, exactly. And I mean it's the same kind of thing. So when you learn the technical skills, you learn how to handle the club and stuff like that. You teach everyone in the team how to do it, and then they go into training and they practice when they're playing, and they might train outside of practice on their own and stuff like that. So it's kind of the same thing here that you know what kind of tools exist that we as a team can learn. And again, we don't learn them because um we have problems, we learn them because we want to play hockey, you know, it's just one part. Of playing hockey. So we learn the tools together, together with the coach. We make sure the parents understand what we have learned in these sessions so they can also get the same kind of learnings. And then when they are home alone, they can do some small practices in the app. And that's when they do it individually. And then they meet again the week after. We learn together, we discuss together, and we realize that I'm not the only one thinking like this or having these types of thoughts. Oh, you also have that kind of thought. And suddenly it was not actually, you know, it was normal that we act like that. And then we can start to discuss. And suddenly, you know, I don't really pay so much attention to it because it's you know, everyone had it, and then you know, I was not the only one, and then it kind of disappears. Um, so team, coach, everyone together, learn, practice, discuss, go home, do some exercises in the app in the evenings, in the mornings, um, meet again, and it's kind of back and forward. So yeah, seven weeks. I think that's uh a good starting period, but then I have to say that it's like everything you need to continue and keep this alive, and that's why I think again, back to the coaches out there, uh, this is just you know part of your weekly training, in the same way you do your strength part, you do your skills part, you do your uh technique part, whatever it is. You know, it's just one part of training.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Yeah, it and it's so easy to incorporate. Um, that's another thing, too. You know, I think a lot of coaches think, well, it's an off-ice thing. And look, look, a lot of the stuff I do in terms of team building is off the ice, but it's so easy before a drill on the ice to stick it's coaches listening. Like, this is something you can do. This drill may make you feel a little nervous, and that's okay. I want you to push through. Just saying that to everyone all at once can have a massive impact on their awareness of the situation. You can even go further of, hey, I'm putting you in a high stress environment here at practice, so in a game you're used to it. I we don't acknowledge things like that verbally, and then we wonder why when the kids get in the big moments, they don't know how to handle it. Keeping in mind a lot of adults can't handle it either, right? You know, like we we like to think we can, all right? Um, but that's something about it too. You know, it here's another thing, too, guys. I want to mention that uh we're talking a lot about the tactical, like what we're doing. You know, we're living in a time where people are kind of being put in a position to choose left or right, up or down, um, you know, pick one side. And the truth is that our species, and this is documented too, uh, is not meant to operate that way. We are meant to work together uh in groups. Okay. Um take that as far as you want in your mind. There is nothing quite like we'll bring this back to hockey, seeing a young group of kids understand there's a collective mission and then buy into that together to accomplish a common goal. Um, I always joke that you know, we we joke about the miracle team here about how amazing that was. Well, that was a team that bought into a common goal, right? The 1980 miracle team. It it's a little miracle anytime a group of people can come together to accomplish a common goal. Again, hockey, work, whatever you want. This practice, I think, is directly rooted in creating that environment. And like you said, you both said it, you can do it for seven weeks, right? If you just go to the gym for seven weeks and work out your body, you're gonna get very strong. And then at seven weeks, if you just went, Well, I did that for seven weeks, let's we don't have to do it anymore, you're gonna lose everything you got pretty quickly, about a month, right? Your mind works exactly the same way. If you stop working out your mind, you will lose some of the strength that you've built up, right? It's a daily practice. I've gone as broad as saying, what one of the beauties of life is that you continue to work on this, like that's the cool thing. And you know what? You're never going to get as far as like whatever consciousness is, right? It's a continued practice. So I'm getting a little deep now. That's that's my fault. But just bringing this back to Hotman, that's that's so important that we practice this. Sorry, I'll I'll shut up. Yeah, that's that there's deep thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

But it's the beauty, that's the beauty with with the CBT as well. That you can do it during practice, you can do it in the dressing room, you can do it while you're sitting on the bus on the way to practice. I mean, reflection, perspective, talking with a friend. But the thing is with the program here in this case is that we try to do it systematic and we have the support from the app to make it systematic and a little bit of fun as well. And then, as we've been talking, like a summary of all the all the good things that have been said, is that if we can integrate that among the adults in in around the teams, so we all start to look out for each other. I mean, it's important as me as a uh team, uh one one of the players in the team or a coach, if I see one guy, he's always happy, smiling, uh joking, and then for a couple of days or a week or so, he's coming there and he's quiet and he changes his behavior. We should be aware of that and and approach him and ask, Hey, how are you doing? Uh is there something I can do? Or I mean, just to be, you know, build that sound and effective environment. And if you do that as well, if you talk about feelings, if you talk about goals, if you if you get to know each other, the fun thing is then this is also why it's work it's working with elite athletes. The fun thing, if you build this great environment, you can actually have higher demands on everyone in the in the group. Because I know you, Lee. I know you, I know what you feel, what you think, what your goals are, and I know that uh you know about me. And we have high goals together. And if you're not doing what we are actually talking about, then we have to find that reason to that. So that's why we can put pressure, more pressure, more higher goals on each other in these environments, but instead of screaming and shouting and and make people scared, right?

SPEAKER_03 51:27

So it's a huge difference. I I'm smiling and laughing here because um one of the things I always ask coaches, you and you just made me think of this, Johan, is do you know what motivates each player? Do you know how each player is motivated? And they'll say to me, No, how do I do that? I go, you ask them how they're motivated. Just ask them. They'll they'll most of the times they'll tell you, like, or or more importantly, they'll say, I'm not motivated by this. It's it's a simple question. Yeah, we don't ask. Here's a here's a great question. Hey, what's your goal? What's your big goal? What's your big dream? Yeah, that that's a great way to find out how someone's motivated. Yeah, um, fantastic. Yeah, it's it's it is that simple, right? It's it's just well, how are you motivated?

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Um it's just then the problem is sorry, sorry, but the problem is then if you if you don't have the relation with that player, he won't tell you what he really feels, and then you're screwed. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

Well, it it's it starts with trust. That's that's a great point. You do have to build trust with your athletes. I mean, we preach that here all the time. That look, trust is the most important thing to any group environment. If it's not there, none of this matters. Um, and the ways there's ways to build on that too. Listen, playwellminds.com. First, first off, for though if you're not convinced by this point to check that out. I don't know what to do for you. Um, but guys, I did want to ask you too. We talked about breathing, we talked about some of these tactics. Uh, share with the audience again. Like, what are some of those other things that maybe they can look into, right? Uh either via your app or other things of coaches that want to get better, parents that want to get better, players that want to get better, what are some of the other baseline things that they can start with?

SPEAKER_01 52:58

So I just want to mention one thing that the teens uh actually just love, which are so simple uh but give so much value, and that is uh top three for today. So if you do top three, so what was the top three for today? And you do that for a number of days, probably like you know, uh three, four, five, six weeks, so somewhere around five, six weeks, um it starts to really, really pay off uh and and pay off from the perspective that teens comes back to us and says that you know, I had a really, really bad day. Uh I was in in my room in the evening, and you know, I have the app and I want to do my top three today. Then I realized that you know I didn't think about three good things that happened today, and and it might be small things. Uh, I actually thought about six or seven good things that happen this really bad day because I was asked to do my top three. So, you know, wherever you are, uh if you are eight, twelve, eighty-five, just doing that simple exercise, write down three things that was you know your top three today. That's you know, then I think we will have a different world if everyone does that. Um because that's that's uh a simple, simple thing that makes you feel a little bit better and sleep a little bit better, and um, yeah, be hopefully also a better coach, better parent, better player. So that's my my number one.

SPEAKER_03 54:31

No, I love it, Henrik. I'd say too that you know, uh to the negative mind, right? Well, that doesn't you have more positives than you think happen in a day, right? If if I think it'd be very rare that you couldn't think of three things, like like very rare, right? Yeah, that's a great tactic. I love that. I'm gonna incorporate that to my team.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Johan, you have you have one for just just just real quick though, just to add on that for a minute, just uh on that whole gratitude side of things. When I've talked to some of the athletes that have been through this, you know, they're thinking about it like in the moment when they have something good, they go, Oh, I'm gonna remember that for later. Like it's amazing. It's amazing how it's amazing how they're like, I don't have to write it down, but I oh, that was good. I'm gonna remember that for later. And all of a sudden you start building this bank of good things. Yeah, and uh and and you know, and I was laughing at my, you know, uh I tried my son to look at it and I'm like, uh he goes, Oh, can I table that for tomorrow? Because I might need that one for tomorrow. I go, but mimic it, do it again tomorrow will be good to shape. But but I love the fact that you that the kids are thinking about it when you give them something to be uh have gratitude for, they're thinking about it as the gratitude happens. They don't have to go back to it and say, Man, what did I do today? Well, and they know it as they're doing. Yeah. And the and what about your what about your free advice?

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Yeah, no, I have a I have a seven-year-old here, uh, and uh and we are trying to ask him sometimes what's your top three? So now he's coming back, and uh you know, during this practice, my top three was and you know, and he made that like yeah, not not every day, but you know, regularly. So he's getting used to it, and he's just seven. He and sometimes when he's sad, then when can you say, Okay, do you remember your top three last thing? Or do you remember your top three yesterday? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And today he was quite okay at school, and then blah blah. So it's working actually. Uh but one thing that that I um uh acknowledged or or or have seen with teens uh working in the app is that they get their own space in the app. It's not public, nobody can read it, and uh they can write whatever they want in the app, nobody will know unless they tell somebody. So they will have their own free space for deeper thoughts or sad thoughts or happy thoughts or and reflections. And I think we all need that sometimes. I mean, just sitting down without uh an iPad or something in front of you and uh just have your have some time with yourself, just uh being aware of your thoughts and feelings. And uh, and I I've we've seen some evaluations from from teens uh just writing that. It's fun, it's it's it's a great place to be. Uh, and then you can pick anything from there to go and and talk to to other people if you want to.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

We had one teen saying that it was like download and reload.

SPEAKER_03 57:19

Oh, that's good. I like that a lot. Yeah, it's it's funny they chose those words because the four of us all grew up in a time where when we had nothing to do, there was nothing to do, right? We had to sit alone with our thoughts. Whereas, you know, this the whole not just this generation, all of us, you know, if we're bored, you pick up your phone and you have something there, and uh we're losing that ability to to reflect. Yeah, um, so I think that's great. Uh guys, I gotta say this. So, my top three for today, one was have a good show, and we did that. So that's that's a win. Mike's smiling, that's good. Everybody's happy here. Um, but guys, that's the time we have. This is one of those conversations. We could do this for hours. Um, but I I want to thank you both for bringing your wisdom, uh, bringing this to the forefront. The work you're doing is so important. Again, for the audience, playwellminds.com. Just check it out. If anything, check it out. Coaches, parents. Uh guys, I'll I'll let you have any final thoughts before we go. I don't want to I don't want to cut you off.

SPEAKER_01 58:13

No, I just want to say, I mean, you started off with saying that you know, in 100 years we will look back to this podcast and say that this is where it all started, you know. Uh amazing. Uh I I think I hope, and again, to be fair, it doesn't matter if it's us or someone else. If if we just get this to work, uh if we can get mental fitness to be as normal and standard as any type of training, doesn't matter if it's school or sports, you know, that's amazing. I I just hope, hope, hope that that will happen. And then if it's us or someone else doesn't care, you know, the the world will be a better place. So I really hope that people understand that it will actually be uh a good place to be in if you start to work with this in our age.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm hoping to see as many uh mental training coaches as there are power skating coaches in the near future.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

We could be a great great accomplishment. When they have the documentaries about the primitive mind of the 21st century, who men discovered mental health wasn't what Johan, anything uh before we finish up, my friend?

SPEAKER_00 59:25

No, I'm just uh I'm just thinking why this is why I work with with people and with this kind of stuff. Uh I think uh I always get I always learn something when I meet new people, and it was uh exciting and fun meeting you guys. Uh I I wrote down some quotes here from you and uh and some good things that we can work with in the future, and I really enjoyed uh being part of this. So I'm happy as well. Well, Mike and I are happy. So we're two two happy guys here. That's what we do, you know.

SPEAKER_02 59:56

And that's tough. That's tough.

SPEAKER_03 59:59

We joke, that's the whole reason of the show, Mike. No, but uh listen, gentlemen, it's shared. I've got a page of notes here as well. And and look, one of the beauties of podcasting in this show um is that we, you know, we again we've done over 400 episodes, over 400 conversations. Um, and I would encourage all of you out there listening to have conversations with people. The the education is insane. Uh, and you get to meet some really amazing people like Henrik and Johan here too, as well. So that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Remember, if you have a question for us, if you have a question for Playwell Minds, anything, email us, team at our kidsplayhockey.com, or as always, there's a link accompanying this episode in the show description. If you tap that, you can actually text us a question. Just remember to leave your uh your name and where you're you're writing from if you're inclined. Uh, but for Johan, for Henrik, for Mike, I'm Lee. It's been another great episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. We'll see you on the next one, everybody. Take care and skate on. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at When Hockey Stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.