Oct. 14, 2023

Insights in Hockey with NHL Broadcaster Jim Jackson

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Season 1 Our Kids Play Hockey

What if you could get behind-the-scenes insights from a veteran NHL play-by-play broadcaster? Our guest, Jim Jackson, has an incredible 30-year career under his belt, and he shares lessons from his wealth of experience with us. From his humble beginnings at Syracuse University to his encounters with the NHL's finest athletes, Jackson's passion for hockey and broadcasting knows no bounds. 

We venture into the world of sports broadcasting, probing the role of technology and how it's revolutionizing this field. Jackson shares his experiences with the Jim Jackson Broadcasting Camp and how it has been a launchpad for successful broadcasters. We also explore the myriad of avenues into a career in sports, from PR to scouting to coaching and analytics, that are available to those with with passion.

We take a look at good coaching in youth sports and the evolution of coaching styles over the years. Jackson emphasizes the role of the team mentality in hockey and its applicability to other areas of life. 

Text The Our Kids Play Hockey Team!

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00:52 - Interview With NHL Announcer Jim Jackson

04:31 - Sports Broadcasting Camps and Technology Impact

10:24 - Exploring Career Pathways in Hockey

18:39 - The Importance of Teamwork in Hockey

30:40 - Coaching's Importance in Youth Sports

38:33 - Coaching in Youth Sports Evolution

48:42 - Coaching and Player Support Evolution

53:21 - Navigating Criticism of Officials in Broadcasting

01:04:28 - Reflections on a Long Broadcasting Career

01:11:15 - Reflecting on Flyers and Future Plans

WEBVTT

00:00:08.169 --> 00:00:13.035
Well, we got a special episode today, especially special for me, if you'll humor me for a moment.

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Today we have on my favorite play by play announcer, jim Jackson.

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As, growing up in the Philadelphia area this is who I heard every game, so it's special for me.

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But we dive into not the Philadelphia Flyers, I promise you, we dive into his experience, obviously as a broadcaster, how you can experience professionally the game outside of playing.

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So for your young kids I always say it's so important that we talk to them about there's more ways to be involved in the game than just playing, although play as long as you can.

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And we also dive a little bit into the NHL and the athletes and the people that he's involved with, both on the ice.

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The front office.

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We talked about on the show, his longtime color commentator, keith Jones, who's now the president of the Flyers.

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He was commentating behind side him for 17 years how that relationship has got him to that front office position.

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So a lot of great gems in this one with Jim Jackson.

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So make sure you check it out.

00:01:02.683 --> 00:01:05.427
Also, the season is fast approaching.

00:01:05.427 --> 00:01:11.125
If you're looking for a book for your kid this year, head over to one hockey stopscom and check out our children's book, the Christie Cash.

00:01:11.125 --> 00:01:19.552
Yana Burns and I wrote one hockey stops which deals with the adversity in sport, and again, you can find it one hockey stopscom or Amazon, wherever you like, and let us know what you think about it.

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And finally, if you're enjoying these episodes the season is upon us Make sure you're sharing these episodes with your new friends in Team Snap or Bench App or wherever it is.

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We really love the support, especially in our Facebook community.

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Our kids play hockey wherever you decide to experience it.

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We appreciate it, we appreciate the reviews and we appreciate your love for us and what we do every day.

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So, without further ado, let's dive into this episode with Jim Jackson on our kids play hot.

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Hello hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of our kids play hockey.

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I'm Leo Elias, with Mike Benelli, and our guest today is entering his 30th year as an NHL play by play announcer and broadcaster with the Philadelphia Flyers.

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He's a graduate of the prestigious Syracuse University Broadcast Journalism Department, where I'm sure he has made them proud, having received multiple Emmys and accolades for his time on the mic, including an induction into the greater Utica Sports Hall of Fame.

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Like most of our guests.

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Beyond the bio, he is most proud of being a father to his two children, deanna and Johnny, and husband to his wife, bernadette.

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Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming Jim Jackson to the show today.

00:02:24.569 --> 00:02:26.305
Jim, welcome to our kids play hockey.

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Great to be here, guys, it's great to have you.

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So, jim, I'm going to start off with a little bit of a story for you.

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I don't know if you realize this, but this is actually not the first time we've met.

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The first time I met you in person was back in the year 2002.

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I was 18 years old, I had just graduated high school and I was signing up for this camp, this new experimental camp.

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It was called the sports broadcasting camp.

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But I remember talking to the guy running the camp his name is Jeremy Treatman.

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He still does it to this day and he says well, listen, you're 18 years old, this is kind of a camp for younger kids and he's like are you sure you want to do this?

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I remember being on the phone are you sure you want to do this?

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And I was going to college at the time for broadcasting and I saw on the list that Jim Jackson was going to be at this camp and, as you can imagine, at 18 years old, there's a hockey player as a broadcaster, someone who had watched you my whole life.

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I'm like I need to go to this camp.

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And I met you at the camp and it was a wonderful time.

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You were so nice to me, it was the perfect final touching point before leaving for college and again, you and I have seen a lot of broadcasters come out of this camp.

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But I had to start with that story because it was a really great moment for me and, as you can see, we are meeting again in a broadcasting way, which I think is great.

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I told you.

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I told you it happened if you stuck to it.

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It's interesting because that was I was their very first speaker.

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I believe Jeremy always touts that I'm speaking to their camp in a couple of days and so I still do it, at least once, sometimes twice a year.

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They obviously it's grown, it's all over the country now.

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It's a huge thing and, as you say, there are some very Chris Lewis was at that very camp that you were at.

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He's now on CBS television and you know Ryan Smith's in the age.

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There's all kinds of kids who were 12, 13, 14 when I met them these camps, who are now in their thirties and they're making it into the business.

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So I'll be in my rocking chair and who knows how many years just watching all these people.

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That's going to be fun.

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But it's a great camp and I've gotten into broadcast coaching myself since I left the Phillies so I've had more time on my hands in the summer especially, so I do broadcast coaching through Zoom and more directly one-on-one.

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But I still talk at the sports broadcasting play by play camp too, and it's always fun.

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So I was glad to meet you back then.

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I can't say I remember it, but it's okay, Don't worry about that the statute of limitations on my memory is getting shorter.

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It's probably down to about five months now.

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So I met you five months, more than five months ago.

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I don't remember it anymore.

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So I think what's important to me is I remembered it, I remember it had an impact on me.

00:05:01.747 --> 00:05:09.250
And again, you've had an impact on a lot of people and I will say real quick, because every time I tell people yeah, I went to the sports broadcast, the sports broadcasting camp, who goes to that?

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And, as you said, this is a nationally run camp.

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Now it is very popular.

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I love it.

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Oh, and now I mean they're in all big cities, I mean the biggest names.

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Mike Turico speaks at it, I mean Charles.

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Barkley.

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Yeah, charles Barkley, this year here locally.

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So you know it's.

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I mean, it's huge.

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And now the way the world works now it's all specialized.

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So now I don't I would be surprised now if anybody would ask you that, but back then, yeah it was.

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I remember when they asked me I'm like, wow, I wish I had this when I was a kid.

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You know, because that's how old I am, I wasn't even a kid when that started.

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But you know, it is such a great.

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They give them hands on the experience, they go over tapes with them, they have great people talk to them.

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What an experience that has to be.

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I wish I had had that.

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I grew up in a small town, upstate New York, and I had nothing.

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I basically watched three stations of television.

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Back then.

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Espn just came into being as I was getting to late high school and there wasn't a whole lot to see, let alone experience trying to get into broadcasting.

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So that's a blessing.

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And now you know, flash forward to today, or fast forward to today, and you've got this.

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You've got social media and zoom and all these things, all the great things they have now going for them.

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So that's good.

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I mean, a lot of things have maybe gone the other direction in life, but certainly technology has helped in terms of coaching and focusing on something you specifically want to do with your life, whether it's broadcasting or some other vocation or some other interest, some other passion.

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You now have ways in which you can learn about it, maybe even experience it.

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So that's a positive of all this technology.

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Well, yeah, I was just going to say.

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The real cool thing is like every kid grows up being kind of their own broadcaster, right, like, oh, it's the Stanley Cup finals or it's the final goal of the game.

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I hear my kids they're broadcasting themselves in the third person playing EA sports or something.

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So I think it's so cool that the broadcasting number one, there's actually more formal schooling and education for that, and that there's so many different ways we talk about it all the time, about how people can get into the game in any way.

00:07:26.728 --> 00:07:28.985
Right, and I think that's you know.

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So if you're a young kid that loves, you know, just loves the game and knows a lot about it and is really educated about players and statistics and the history of the game, you know it's really a fun.

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I would think it's just be a fun thing to explore.

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If you have a kid that loves a sport and our case, hockey and maybe it's not, you know, maybe not destined to be an NHL hockey player, but it's really really, really cool opportunity.

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So, leah, and that's great, that, what a great story that you go back to remember and, Jim, I'll tell you we all start wanting to play this sport.

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Oh, yeah, right.

00:08:05.182 --> 00:08:06.004
I was a lot of times.

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I'm very stubborn and it takes a while for something to be pounded in my head that I wasn't going to make it to.

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The NHL was not one of them.

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I realized that a very early age that it wasn't going to make the NFL, major league baseball, you know, the NBA or the NHL.

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So I pretty early on said, got to find another way.

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It was my father who said why don't you?

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You're always talking when the games are on.

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You're calling the games off the television when we're watching them anyhow why don't you get into broadcasting?

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So it was his idea and here I am.

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Awesome, jim.

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I got a similar talk from my own father and I'll tell you two things.

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And you did make the NHL and the MLB and you did it with a lot of grace and a lot of honor.

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And two, for those of you not watching this episode you look exactly as I remember you 20 years ago.

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It's not true.

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You might not think that.

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How old are you now I?

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guess I'm about to be 38.

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I'm going to be the oldest camper of all time, at about 34.

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You're about 40 and you need glasses, yeah.

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I think I look the same, but I can't tell you whether you do or not.

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I doubt you had that beard.

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I have no hair now and I did not have this beard back, so I look a little different.

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I had a very long hair at that time.

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That's probably why you don't recognize me.

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You had long hair, all right.

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Yeah, I mean, I've met, just through that camp alone, hundreds of kids, so, and I've had a couple come up who brought me the picture of me with them when they were a kid and now they want a picture as an adult.

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It's kind of weird.

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And then they send both pictures to me in the email and it's like, wow, it is.

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It's a great experience.

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And I got to tell you, I mean, when I was let go by the Phillies during the pandemic, for the reasons that a lot of people got let go of during the pandemic, it was crushing and it was terrible.

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And it's still not a great financial thing for me, but I am so happy it happened in almost every other way but financial, because I don't miss the job, I miss the people, I miss the ballpark, I do not miss the job at all.

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But, more importantly, I now have summers where I can go on a legitimate vacation, I can use my pool, I can golf, I can do things like that.

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But I also have been able to dive into the coaching voiceover too.

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But the coaching in particular.

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It's so rewarding.

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In just three years now I've had 60 to 65 people that I've worked with and you know, it's just, I almost feel like I now have like 65 kids, but I and they're not all kids I've had a 58 year old who's a podcaster, who wanted to do it too, but a lot of them are obviously younger and I just it's very rewarding and it's great to get to know them, to see their passion and to tell them that so much of life is finding a passion that you can make your life, make your living, make it, monetize it in some way.

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So because I just think a big problem in this country, big problem in this world, really right now, our people are at best bored, at worst miserable in their jobs.

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And you know, if you find a passion and are able to make that your job, it's I'm living proof, it's just a great way to go because you don't, you don't work a day or life that way.

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You know, one of the things I was going to ask you this later, but since we brought it up let's do it now, especially for our younger listeners is that there are so many ways to be involved in hockey aside from actually playing what you alluded to earlier, and I think when you're able to see the game from that kind of branched out area, it really it can create, like you said, a passionate pathway for you to pursue the game.

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I know certainly I've been blessed to be involved in the game my whole life.

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Mike is in a similar boat, but I'd love for you to talk to the parents and their children that are listening that there are so many ways to be involved in hockey beyond playing.

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It's important that you cultivate that passion in other ways too.

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Yeah, and I tell all my broadcast students this too you got to keep your horizon very broad because there's only so many broadcasting jobs.

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So I know their passion.

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Their dream might be that, and always shoot for your dream.

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I never discouraged that.

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But a lot of people I've had going for this dream end up taking a little side road over here.

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Maybe they'll get back to that, but sometimes they go over here and they like it.

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A good case in point there was a kid who was at Westchester, who was a huge hockey guy, he was a huge sports guy, he was a pretty good broadcaster and he asked me to go over and speak to his class.

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So I did, and after the class game with me, I'd love to have you listen to some of my tapes.

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I've done some games.

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Can you critique him for me?

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This is before I had my own coaching.

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Of course I said sure, and I listened.

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He was pretty good.

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I mean, I think this was a guy who had a real shot.

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But he graduates about a year later and there's nothing out there for him.

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So there was an internship with the Flyers in PR and I said, hey, why don't you go for it's?

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You know, half season thing, no pay, but it'll get your.

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You know your your done with school, why don't you do it?

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He did it, he got done with that.

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He was very good, he was around the broadcasters, which was good for him.

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And then that ended and he said what do I do now?

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And I go no bites, no nibbles at all on the broadcast.

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He goes no.

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And I said, well, the Phillies have an actual position in PR.

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I was still working with the Phillies then and he said, well, can I go for that?

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I said, absolutely Well, he went for that.

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And he ended up with the Phillies.

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He climbed up to like their third in command, second in command in their PR department.

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Just this summer a left for another job in PR at Villanova, but you know, so there is.

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He ended up going over here and he no one was more passionate about broadcasting than this kid.

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But he ended up going over here to PR and I did ask him.

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It was actually right after I had left the Phillies.

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I said you still have any pangs for broadcasting?

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He goes, yeah, once in a while.

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But I just love PR now and he's made a great living at it and that happens as far as hockey in particular.

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I'm going through this right now with my son because he's a senior in college and you know the reckoning is coming, college is gonna end and you know he's not gonna be a player anymore.

00:14:01.154 --> 00:14:11.774
I mean, he has a slight chance to maybe play at one of the lower Professional leagues if he wants to keep playing, but ultimately he wants to be in the sport in some other way and he's just not sure yet.

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He's an honor student in business with the minor in sports management, has also got analytics in his, on his repertoire.

00:14:18.934 --> 00:14:22.662
So there's analytics, there's coaching, there's scouting.

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There are so many ways.

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Broadcasting is not his interest, so that one's out for him and PR I don't think it's probably where he wants to go.

00:14:30.626 --> 00:14:35.267
But though I just named five possible ways you can get involved with with a team some way.

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He has a great eye for talent so he could be a great scout.

00:14:38.975 --> 00:14:50.905
He works really well with young kids so he could go into low-level coaching if you wanted to, and he's very good at math and can certainly handle analytics and I really think there's a major need in hockey for analytics.

00:14:50.926 --> 00:14:59.799
People who've played the game to some level Whether it's hot, you know high school, college Pro NHL.

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Obviously, the higher the better, I suppose.

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But I really think analytics is here to stay, there's no doubt about it.

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But I think we need people in the positions of the people who go talk to the coaches who are a little bit more game knowledgeable.

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We have a lot of math majors in analytics that have never played the game, don't even know the game really.

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They know the numbers and know the numbers as well as anybody.

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But you have to have at least some people, I think, in your analytics department eventually, if you don't already, that have played the game and have knowledge of it.

00:15:28.934 --> 00:15:30.320
So you can equate.

00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:38.715
Because there's still a Gap between many coaches and the analytics department, because the coaches don't trust just the numbers.

00:15:38.715 --> 00:15:42.683
They want somebody who has some idea of the game, bringing those numbers to him.

00:15:42.683 --> 00:15:44.849
So maybe you have, you know, someone in between.

00:15:44.849 --> 00:15:48.341
Go between that, the actual analytics person and the coach.

00:15:48.341 --> 00:15:51.428
But I still think there's a market and will be a growing market for that.

00:15:51.428 --> 00:15:53.250
So maybe that's the way it goes.

00:15:53.250 --> 00:15:54.672
So there's, there are there.

00:15:54.672 --> 00:15:54.991
You're right.

00:15:54.991 --> 00:16:03.327
There's so many ways you can involve in this great game and I'm going through with him because he could probably go in any of the three I mentioned to be successful.

00:16:03.327 --> 00:16:12.071
Obviously, he'll make more money in analytics right off the bat, but his passion to me, if I asked him, I think you know take money out of it.

00:16:12.591 --> 00:16:13.554
What do you like best?

00:16:13.554 --> 00:16:14.644
It's actually scouting.

00:16:14.644 --> 00:16:15.731
He can go to a game.

00:16:15.731 --> 00:16:23.352
My son, he's now 22, 23, just turn 23 and he can go to a game and see stuff that Keith Jones used to tell me about.

00:16:23.352 --> 00:16:25.841
We're sitting and I'm watching a skate.

00:16:25.841 --> 00:16:30.014
Just little things about how a guy is skating or how he handles the puck, even in a practice.

00:16:30.014 --> 00:16:34.037
And Jones, he's ridiculously insightful.

00:16:34.037 --> 00:16:37.841
That way, I mean, he comes off as this guy is just a funny guy.

00:16:37.841 --> 00:16:39.988
Well, obviously he's president of Flyers now, so we all know.

00:16:39.988 --> 00:16:49.707
But but he I could sit with him at a morning skate and he would see stuff that I'm like really wow, and it would bear out in the game almost every time.

00:16:49.707 --> 00:16:53.062
My son's kind of like that, so he could be a scout for sure.

00:16:53.062 --> 00:16:56.080
He is a good eye for talent, love's coaching kids.

00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.148
I said he could do any of these three.

00:16:58.148 --> 00:16:59.835
I don't know which path he's gonna take.

00:17:00.918 --> 00:17:03.123
But it's so awesome that there's multiple paths.

00:17:03.123 --> 00:17:11.654
I'm just gonna list some of these ones you said a minute ago and these are just kind of directions in the game broadcast, analytics, scouting, coaching, business is one PR.

00:17:11.654 --> 00:17:13.317
Some of these are at the NHL.

00:17:13.317 --> 00:17:16.083
There's also other ways to be involved outside of the NHL.

00:17:16.083 --> 00:17:19.028
Absolutely, I'm gonna, I'm gonna format this into a question now.

00:17:20.362 --> 00:17:27.152
You're a professional, you're one of the best in my opinion, and you are around professionals all the time, whether it's front office people, athletes.

00:17:27.152 --> 00:17:28.134
You travel with the team.

00:17:28.134 --> 00:17:36.657
So we talk a lot on this show about how it's somewhat dangerous for young people to only identify as I am a hockey player.

00:17:36.657 --> 00:17:38.002
That's who I am, that's what I am.

00:17:38.002 --> 00:17:54.734
I'm curious what you've seen over the years of what the quality of character is of these Professionals and what you see amongst them that makes them professionals and makes them succeed, because I think that those tools Go around the board to broadcasting, analytics, scouting, coaching, business, pr.

00:17:54.734 --> 00:18:02.864
If you want to be a pro at anything, you have to share some of these, and it's not just being able to do a Michigan or have a great skating ability.

00:18:02.864 --> 00:18:04.711
Can you, can you touch on that for a few minutes?

00:18:05.193 --> 00:18:10.434
Yeah, and I mean again, I hesitate sometimes to get into talks like this because I don't want to generalize.

00:18:10.434 --> 00:18:13.910
I mean, not all hockey players are what I'm about to say.

00:18:13.910 --> 00:18:21.602
There are some bad eggs, there are some very individual hockey players, but I've covered all four major sports.

00:18:21.602 --> 00:18:29.140
Two of them at a major league level and the other two at collegiate levels and minor league levels Did one year of division one basketball.

00:18:29.140 --> 00:18:34.048
I've been around all the four Major sports and not soccer as much.

00:18:34.048 --> 00:18:35.095
I can't really talk to that.

00:18:35.095 --> 00:18:54.428
But the other four and it's it's not even close that hockey players are Kind of the most team oriented of that group and and I think that if you you come from the background of being a team player, it really helps you in business, it helps you in any of the areas we just talked about.

00:18:55.096 --> 00:19:07.535
Even though a scout lives a very lonely life in many instances because he's on the road all the time, he still has to be a team player too, because while he's gonna push his players to the team, he's got to know what's best for the team ultimately or he's gonna lose his job.

00:19:07.535 --> 00:19:09.019
He just won't be a very good scout.

00:19:09.019 --> 00:19:16.565
So it's always about the team and I Notice that about hockey players more than the other sports.

00:19:16.565 --> 00:19:19.769
I'm not saying there aren't those kind of players in other sports to.

00:19:19.769 --> 00:19:21.094
There absolutely are.

00:19:21.094 --> 00:19:29.799
And Football is pretty close to hockey in that regard, although it's gotten so individual in the last 10 to 15 years just because of the way it's covered.

00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:36.647
But you know, if you talk to linemen in football in particular, they have a hockey mentality.

00:19:36.647 --> 00:19:43.893
The linemen know that if the guy next to him is not doing his job he's probably not gonna do very good, because you know how that works with.

00:19:43.893 --> 00:19:50.499
You know when you're rushing the quarterback or when you're trying to stop a run play, if the guy next to you goes off course, you're probably screwed.

00:19:50.499 --> 00:19:52.164
You're gonna end up getting double teamed or whatever.

00:19:52.164 --> 00:19:58.682
So teamwork among the linemen in football is very, but in hockey it's everybody minus the goaltender.

00:19:58.682 --> 00:20:04.637
But the goaltender relies on everybody else and now they handle the puck so much they also have to be involved a little bit.

00:20:04.637 --> 00:20:19.999
But certainly everybody else has to be completely in sync and if you get a guy who is or a gal who is not with the program, it can it really hurt the program and really stick out, and I just think that it's.

00:20:19.999 --> 00:20:24.848
It's so quick now the game so fast that you have to be all on the same page.

00:20:24.848 --> 00:20:29.994
We see it all the time where teams with less talent beat teams with better talent.

00:20:29.994 --> 00:20:44.945
I would not say the Vegas Golden Knights last year, as constructed, were the most talented team, but they won the Stanley Cup and a lot of it was because they just got into a system at a great coaching job and I mean they just they were the best team in the long run.

00:20:46.115 --> 00:20:49.962
Other sports basketball for sure talent is is king, it's.

00:20:49.962 --> 00:20:51.665
It's an individual sport.

00:20:51.665 --> 00:20:53.450
It's all about the stars.

00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:57.750
Baseball is is an individual sport by nature.

00:20:57.750 --> 00:20:58.875
It's pitcher versus hitter.

00:20:58.875 --> 00:21:01.414
There is teamwork, certainly defensively.

00:21:01.414 --> 00:21:06.625
There's teamwork between pitcher and catcher, but there's not that all inclusive teamwork that you need in hockey.

00:21:07.115 --> 00:21:11.686
Football is the closest because there's a lot of players who have to be in sync to make it work.

00:21:11.686 --> 00:21:15.294
But now the receiver is getting a little bit out there on their own island.

00:21:15.294 --> 00:21:16.983
Defensive backs, the same thing.

00:21:16.983 --> 00:21:19.172
Quarterbacks it's kind of always been that way.

00:21:19.172 --> 00:21:21.494
There's you're seeing that become very individualized too.

00:21:21.494 --> 00:21:25.433
But without those linemen none of these other stars you know get what they need.

00:21:25.534 --> 00:21:32.689
So there's still that team element of football too, but but hockey the most and I think it's it's bred in them from the very beginning.

00:21:32.689 --> 00:21:47.384
So when they get, if they get, to the league that the level we're talking about, the NHL level, they have to be very talented, of course, but they also have to have that mentality because Somewhere on the line, if you don't, is probably going to tear a team up.

00:21:47.384 --> 00:21:56.654
And I've seen through my son's progression through youth hockey, through juniors, through college, a Lot of kids who when he was in youth were stars that went nowhere.

00:21:56.654 --> 00:22:05.704
And now I see kids that when he was in youth were kind of bit players that ended up playing in college hockey and ended up making it at least somewhere with their career.

00:22:05.704 --> 00:22:16.693
It wasn't all talent, it was based upon the fact that they were able to be coached, that they were team players, that what they would do anything for the team and so that's so, so much a part of hockey.

00:22:16.693 --> 00:22:19.741
So I think that hopefully that always stays that way.

00:22:19.741 --> 00:22:27.344
You're gonna have players that are better and Some I would, I would, I would offer our more individual than others.

00:22:27.624 --> 00:22:29.709
There's no more a team player than Sydney Crosby.

00:22:29.709 --> 00:22:31.459
You know I can't.

00:22:31.459 --> 00:22:38.385
I'm saying this is with this jersey behind me, but I Get killed in Philly all the time for praising Sydney Crosby.

00:22:38.385 --> 00:22:43.654
But if Sydney Crosby was playing in Philadelphia he'd be, you'd be great there with Bob Clark, right?

00:22:43.654 --> 00:22:48.962
You know, maybe even above Bob, he's just Say a great talent, but unbelievable.

00:22:48.962 --> 00:22:53.255
You talked to any of his teammates you talked to he's any been a great ambassador for the game as well.

00:22:53.255 --> 00:22:56.176
So he's he's that Kind of make.

00:22:56.196 --> 00:22:58.263
David to me is a little more individual.

00:22:58.263 --> 00:23:01.914
He's now learning that you have to have that team mentality.

00:23:01.914 --> 00:23:04.284
I think two years ago it kind of clicked in for him.

00:23:04.284 --> 00:23:09.474
He's probably more talented than than said, to be honest with you, because he has the legs that nobody has.

00:23:09.474 --> 00:23:17.857
But I don't think he had that will, that desire, the team desire that Sid had the moment he stepped on the ice.

00:23:17.857 --> 00:23:19.221
Now he's got it.

00:23:19.221 --> 00:23:21.006
I think he's gonna win a cup soon.

00:23:21.586 --> 00:23:26.084
But you know Crosby had that in his bag his second or third year.

00:23:26.084 --> 00:23:30.775
I mean, it's just Some players have that more than others.

00:23:30.775 --> 00:23:32.277
We'll see.

00:23:32.277 --> 00:23:41.717
About Connor Badaire I'll be very interested to see because he's been watched his entire life as the star seems extremely grounded to me.

00:23:41.717 --> 00:23:46.265
Seems like he's gonna be more like Crosby than maybe McDavid or some of these other guys who.

00:23:46.265 --> 00:23:47.390
It takes a long time.

00:23:47.390 --> 00:23:55.731
I mean it's gonna be an adjustment period, but he does seem really team oriented for a guy who's been catered to pretty much his whole life just because he's so talented.

00:23:55.731 --> 00:23:58.224
So a lot of interesting things there.

00:23:58.224 --> 00:24:01.848
But the bottom line is these hockey players have that team concept.

00:24:01.848 --> 00:24:09.132
They're coachable and I'm generalizing because there are some that aren't that way, but more so than I'd say any other sport.

00:24:10.045 --> 00:24:11.791
Yeah, I love the fact that you bring like, just that.

00:24:11.791 --> 00:24:15.328
I think one of the things that we get to see as hockey people is the.

00:24:15.328 --> 00:24:17.426
It's just a.

00:24:17.426 --> 00:24:19.291
It's more of a family atmosphere.

00:24:19.291 --> 00:24:19.753
It really is.

00:24:19.753 --> 00:24:20.365
It's a.

00:24:20.365 --> 00:24:23.690
I depend on you on my parent, nantucket right now, and the Yandles are doing a.

00:24:23.690 --> 00:24:27.648
They do our hockey school up here right and well.

00:24:27.648 --> 00:24:30.477
Other than the fact that they're on Nantucket, it's just that they're in.

00:24:30.477 --> 00:24:33.388
You could see the way they talk to the kids and the way they interact.

00:24:33.388 --> 00:24:36.193
There's no like I'm better than you.

00:24:36.193 --> 00:24:39.246
There's no like, and not that they're equal, but they're like.

00:24:39.267 --> 00:24:51.737
Listen, we're here to help you, because we love the fact that you're committing to this, because we realize, as hockey parents and as hockey players, how difficult it is to find the time to play and train.

00:24:51.737 --> 00:24:55.945
You know, you mentioned all those other sports, like basketball and basically baseball and like.

00:24:55.945 --> 00:24:58.734
You can do those sports base anywhere.

00:24:58.734 --> 00:25:00.369
I mean, you could just get up and play.

00:25:00.369 --> 00:25:13.442
And now hockey, you know, obviously with the ability to go outside and stick, handle and, but you just the game itself, the team, the parental piece of it or the support piece of it.

00:25:13.442 --> 00:25:15.813
You know, having somebody that's gonna bring you to the rink.

00:25:15.813 --> 00:25:23.470
You know it's not so much the early hours anymore, right, we've actually a lot of us have gotten through that, right, the hours aren't the worst, but it is a huge commitment.

00:25:23.565 --> 00:25:35.170
It's the longest season, it's a and the fact that these kids have to be, you know, multi-dimensional athletes and they're in a room with other players they have to get along with.

00:25:35.170 --> 00:25:37.653
I mean, we, lee and I, have talked about this a lot.

00:25:37.653 --> 00:25:39.089
You know a lot of guests about.

00:25:39.089 --> 00:25:53.375
You know you're in a locker room, you're in a tight space, you're in a, you know you're taking that, you're getting a little 12 inch piece of a bench and you have to get along with everyone and you got to find a way to, you know, get there and play and I think it's such a cool thing that you brought up that.

00:25:53.704 --> 00:26:00.407
You know that you get to see it from your point of view when you're interviewing players and seeing them in the hallways and doing it and obviously you must.

00:26:00.407 --> 00:26:11.534
You know you're seeing them so much more out of the limelight of the game itself and how they react to maintenance workers, zamboni, drivers, like the staff in the rink.

00:26:11.534 --> 00:26:16.606
When you're around these guys as much as you are, as much as I am.

00:26:16.606 --> 00:26:22.567
You get to really see the type of human beings they are For the most part.

00:26:22.567 --> 00:26:35.690
Again, there are the guys I get it that you know don't that aren't great, but for the most part, when you see these players you can understand why it's easy to like them and it's why it's easy to you know cheer for them to be successful.

00:26:36.271 --> 00:26:39.219
It really is and, like I said, reese Hoskins is that way.

00:26:39.219 --> 00:26:42.212
He's a baseball player, so there are players in other sports who are alike.

00:26:42.212 --> 00:26:44.332
That's why we're generalizing here.

00:26:44.332 --> 00:26:51.694
But the hockey mentality is, there's no question about it, and you bring up a good point about the family aspect of it.

00:26:51.694 --> 00:26:55.751
There's not many hockey players who make it without a lot of support from their family.

00:26:55.751 --> 00:27:11.326
You know, in basketball, football, if you, if you're really talented, somebody's going to spot you and they'll move you to camps and whether your parents support you or not, you got to have your mom or dad driving you and my wife would probably beg to differ with you on the hours things at least for our son it was.

00:27:11.326 --> 00:27:21.232
It was still ridiculous hours, you know, getting out to the rink and my son was a rink rat, so he would he would actually go over and don't tell anybody this, but he'd go over to the, the skate zone.

00:27:21.232 --> 00:27:25.851
After everybody was done they let him out on the ice Cause he just loved being on the ice.

00:27:25.851 --> 00:27:30.496
So you know, just by himself sometimes and just loved it.

00:27:30.496 --> 00:27:32.531
So and there is that too.

00:27:33.385 --> 00:27:45.250
I fell in love with hockey, watching the Mohawk Valley comets of the then the Eastern hockey league in the 70s and I was really young kid, my father was a veterinarian.

00:27:45.250 --> 00:27:51.413
He had a split practice and he and the other veterinarian got a half season ticket each, you know, for a full.

00:27:51.413 --> 00:28:06.571
So we got to go to half the games one year and I remember you're sitting there and we went to like five games and I said, dad, we got to get the full season ticket next year, which we did, and it lowered out into better seats and I was in love with the game, I mean instantaneously in love with it.

00:28:06.571 --> 00:28:10.355
I think when you go to the game you can fall in love with it.

00:28:10.355 --> 00:28:13.365
On TV you can understand it once you fall in love with it.

00:28:13.404 --> 00:28:22.034
But I think it's going to the games where you fall in love with it and then, once you're in love with it and these players are in love with it, for the most part it's just.

00:28:22.034 --> 00:28:25.614
There's just nothing like the sound of sticks and pucks.

00:28:25.614 --> 00:28:29.075
I mean it's actually even better to me than the crack of the bat.

00:28:29.075 --> 00:28:39.057
So and it's just that mentality which is right there for all the players to have and it's almost necessary.

00:28:39.057 --> 00:28:45.605
As I said, without that mentality you're not going to be successful, or at least as successful as you would be with that team mentality.

00:28:45.605 --> 00:28:49.015
And I've seen it with kids at lower, lower levels too.

00:28:49.015 --> 00:28:55.846
You know a lot of the kids who first start out in hockey don't necessarily have that mentality and they don't last long or they just don't.

00:28:55.846 --> 00:29:02.114
They don't have the love and they give it up, so it kind of weeds itself out that way.

00:29:03.005 --> 00:29:04.509
Jim, I'll say it just to prove your point.

00:29:04.509 --> 00:29:10.750
There is a need to teach kids this mentality, I think at a younger age and I do a lot of coaching.

00:29:10.750 --> 00:29:21.570
I've coached at every level and I volunteered the last few years to coach might hockey and my condition was you have to let me do team building with the seven and eight-year-olds, and I've talked about this many times on the show.

00:29:21.570 --> 00:29:22.326
I got pushed back.

00:29:22.326 --> 00:29:23.651
They won't understand that.

00:29:23.651 --> 00:29:24.354
They can't do it.

00:29:24.354 --> 00:29:47.307
They were better than most adults that I've worked with and the results were insane in the sense of not only did they understand kind of how to start to learn how to control their emotions as much as a seven or eight-year-old can, but towards the end of the season and I always reiterate this on the show I did not teach them this, what I'm about to say, but they were jumping in front of Pucks, in front of the net, to help their goalie.

00:29:47.307 --> 00:29:56.329
They were helping each other, they were supporting each other on the bench and I realized they can do this better than we can and it can be taught.

00:29:56.404 --> 00:29:57.769
You talked about Sidney Crosby.

00:29:57.769 --> 00:30:01.694
You know, jim I've never said this publicly I went to his first game.

00:30:01.694 --> 00:30:02.789
I'm a huge Flyers fan.

00:30:02.789 --> 00:30:06.553
I went to his first game in New Jersey All right, because I knew when this kid was coming up.

00:30:06.553 --> 00:30:25.452
I had been following him at Shattuck and when he was on the Oceanic and I'm like, this is a special person and obviously, aside from hating him on the ice for many years, you can't not admire the man that he is and who he's becoming, and the stories that come out of nowhere about the things that he does for his teammates.

00:30:25.452 --> 00:30:28.351
For other people he's a real model person.

00:30:28.351 --> 00:30:37.650
You said but, dar, his post conference, right after he won the World Junior Championship and for those of you don't know, they went right up to him talking about him.

00:30:37.650 --> 00:30:38.633
Tell me, about you, tell me.

00:30:38.633 --> 00:30:42.749
First answer was I don't even want to talk about me because I want to talk about the.

00:30:42.749 --> 00:30:45.028
Canada just won the World Junior Championship.

00:30:45.028 --> 00:30:53.991
So I, just reverting back to that, I totally understand where you're coming from and these skills that you're talking about, the ability to be a great teammate.

00:30:54.005 --> 00:30:55.431
We say this on the show, too, all the time.

00:30:55.431 --> 00:30:58.693
Great players make other people around them better.

00:30:58.693 --> 00:31:02.474
Good players are talented, but great players make other people better.

00:31:02.474 --> 00:31:04.853
I think that's true in the broadcast booth.

00:31:04.853 --> 00:31:06.290
I think that's true in business.

00:31:06.290 --> 00:31:10.451
I think it's true of all of the different jobs and roles we spoke about before.

00:31:10.451 --> 00:31:15.471
Again, broadcasting alone when you guys watch hockey, you see a person or two on TV.

00:31:15.471 --> 00:31:19.788
There's a whole lot of people behind the scenes making that happen.

00:31:19.788 --> 00:31:25.809
And, jim, actually every year at the last game you always go over all the names and they always show all the credits.

00:31:25.809 --> 00:31:44.795
And I just want to reiterate what you said the ability to understand how to be a great team player on both sides of that, to take direction, to give direction, to care about the person next to you, whether on a hockey bench, a broadcast booth or a business it is a skill that translates beyond just playing.

00:31:45.684 --> 00:31:49.214
And I think that, as parents, it's one of the greatest gifts.

00:31:49.214 --> 00:31:51.752
We talk about the ROI of hockey all the time.

00:31:51.752 --> 00:31:56.510
It's one of the greatest gifts that your children will take away from the game and you can cultivate that as a parent.

00:31:57.165 --> 00:32:25.070
No doubt you can, and the game itself lends to that, because there is still the physicality of hockey Not obviously youth levels, but they watch hockey, the kids and you're protecting your teammate is still such a huge part of the game, even though it's not necessarily done with fighting anymore occasionally, and not anymore in the Quebec League, but it's done with other physical play or it's done with just the.

00:32:25.070 --> 00:32:30.891
You know, as Jonesy will tell you, all the stuff that goes on down around the benches and that you know I have your back.

00:32:30.891 --> 00:32:35.150
Mentality is huge to teach someone and hockey gives that.

00:32:35.526 --> 00:32:51.511
In basketball it's more about doing something to make yourself stand out and into some degree in baseball but again, baseball is one on one, and then football, depending on your position, the same thing so, but in hockey it's all for one.

00:32:51.511 --> 00:32:52.909
You're all over the ice.

00:32:52.909 --> 00:33:00.971
You know you have your positions, but at some point during the course of the season a right wing is going to need a defenseman sticking up, former, vice versa, or whatever.

00:33:00.971 --> 00:33:05.536
So I do see hockey is lending to that.

00:33:05.536 --> 00:33:09.556
It's a great life teaching sport for the youth.

00:33:09.556 --> 00:33:19.553
I do think we need, as probably all sports, to even more good coaches, because I think a lot of coaches at youth levels are worried too much about W's and L's.

00:33:20.986 --> 00:33:22.971
And triple A's and double A's, oh yeah.

00:33:24.164 --> 00:33:31.269
And they're thinking more about that than they are, you know, getting these kids to where they need to be, I mean and so.

00:33:31.269 --> 00:33:34.238
But that's true, I suppose, with all sports.

00:33:34.238 --> 00:33:42.473
We have so much in terms of youth sports now that there's only so many good coaches around, but constantly looking for better.

00:33:42.473 --> 00:33:43.569
My son had good coaches.

00:33:43.569 --> 00:33:44.468
He had bad coaches.

00:33:44.468 --> 00:33:49.910
He had some that he still talks to, that he looks up to, and others that he'll never talk to again.

00:33:49.910 --> 00:33:55.573
You wish there were fewer of the latter right, but life's not perfect.

00:33:56.464 --> 00:33:59.690
Yeah, I always say that I think you can, depending on how you approach it.

00:33:59.690 --> 00:34:05.574
You can learn as much from a bad coach as you can a good coach, depending on how you receive the information.

00:34:05.574 --> 00:34:09.175
Yeah, I think long term, but it's dangerous at young ages?

00:34:09.405 --> 00:34:11.572
because there's so you talked about.

00:34:11.572 --> 00:34:15.153
You know what you were teaching them at that age is might.

00:34:15.153 --> 00:34:26.773
That's when they're sponges, that's when I remember a lot of things that happened to me in Little League and Biddy basketball, the youth sports, like it was yesterday, whereas I can't remember stuff that happened a week ago.

00:34:26.773 --> 00:34:41.032
You know you're so impressionable it is almost a cliche, but you're so impressionable at that age that you don't want I don't want my child having to learn about what not to do quite that young.

00:34:41.246 --> 00:34:42.061
It's got to be that's super fair.

00:34:42.445 --> 00:34:43.670
Yeah, finding the good habits.

00:34:43.670 --> 00:34:53.367
But yeah, as you move along and then certainly in retrospect, as you look back as my son does now at all the coaches, he can pick out the ones that were bad and say, yeah, that's not.

00:34:53.367 --> 00:35:07.672
If he goes into coaching, for instance, that's not something I'm gonna do, but when at the time you worry about it having an impact where he pushes him away from the game even or just taints his whole approach to what we were just talking about in the team influence.

00:35:07.672 --> 00:35:09.271
Thankfully that didn't happen with him.

00:35:09.364 --> 00:35:19.710
But I do know a lot of kids who got turned off by some coaches and never really came back or just lost their love for the game, and that's really a shame.

00:35:19.710 --> 00:35:21.130
So we have to watch that.

00:35:21.130 --> 00:35:31.193
We have to have good coaching and coaches are really teachers that until you get to a certain age where it's completely coaching but you're teaching about life.

00:35:31.193 --> 00:35:38.612
Up until a certain age I don't know what age that would be, but at some age you then become more of just a coach of the sport.

00:35:38.612 --> 00:35:45.054
But youth hockey for sure it's teaching right, and it's not just teaching hockey, it's teaching life Right.

00:35:46.565 --> 00:35:47.550
Yeah, I think it's so funny.

00:35:47.550 --> 00:35:52.110
That's why I mean honestly, that's why we got involved with this podcast and this platform to begin with.

00:35:52.110 --> 00:36:21.753
I mean up there your fellow Syracuse in there, christy it was the same way, Like we just talked about having a voice to let people know, kind of what to look for and the pitfalls of falling into what program you pick and where your kid could play or should play, or the checklist that you need to make sure you have so that when you're picking teams you might be able to avoid some of these issues.

00:36:21.753 --> 00:36:34.050
And I think on the other side, we just have to remember too that the youth level at any sport, these are mom and dads that are they're not educated teachers, right, they're not well for the most part.

00:36:34.050 --> 00:36:47.653
So I think all of the and hockey is the leader by far but all of these governing bodies have done such a great job of becoming more of teaching adults how to teach, rather than the X's and O's of the game.

00:36:47.653 --> 00:37:03.644
And I think that's where I think we all fall short at the youth level is working with children in a teaching capacity as opposed to knowing how much knowledge I have about the game, and I think we all wish we had that coach right.

00:37:03.644 --> 00:37:11.313
That said, oh well, they know more about how to teach my son and daughter than maybe they do about the game itself.

00:37:11.313 --> 00:37:19.271
But that's the most important piece, you know, it's making sure our kids love coming to the rink every day.

00:37:19.385 --> 00:37:42.250
So, you know, definitely that's a big piece that could be improved, but I think that's one of the reasons we love having guests like you on is because the more and more people that hear of others' experiences before them hopefully there's an educational piece that we joke around all the time that the people that really need to hear and listen to us and join us in this are never on this podcast.

00:37:42.250 --> 00:37:47.990
They'll never listen to the podcast, they'll never come across it, because they're like well, I don't need to learn that.

00:37:47.990 --> 00:37:59.655
But you mentioned earlier in the show here that the vast majority, though, are positive and good and great, really, and give their time and all their efforts.

00:37:59.655 --> 00:38:10.751
And if we can just I know in my line of work I can just put that little you know those two or three that ruin it mentally from me, then everything else is great.

00:38:10.751 --> 00:38:15.313
I mean, I think it just you can really embrace how fun it is to be involved with the youth.

00:38:15.313 --> 00:38:20.130
You know levels of sport for sure, and great people like you and great parents.

00:38:20.784 --> 00:38:24.090
Yeah, well, I mean and that's the other thing I mean, we didn't even get into the parents.

00:38:24.090 --> 00:38:30.552
Some of the parents, you know all, think their kid is going to be the next Gretzky and make it tough on the coach.

00:38:30.552 --> 00:38:33.112
The coach can do no right in their mind.

00:38:33.112 --> 00:38:35.411
So it does work both ways.

00:38:35.411 --> 00:38:36.630
It's not all in the coaches.

00:38:36.630 --> 00:38:55.971
The parents have to take a big part in the teaching as well and also understand and I went through this when a coach would discipline my son not discipline like he would spend him or anything like that, but I think would slip him down a line or not give him the ice time I'd always try to go over with my son as to why this is happening.

00:38:55.971 --> 00:38:58.452
Understand there's got to be a reason why this is happening.

00:38:58.452 --> 00:39:03.273
Unfortunately, there were a couple of coaches where it had nothing to do with my son's play.

00:39:03.273 --> 00:39:06.472
It had more to do with other things, and those are some of the bad coaches.

00:39:06.472 --> 00:39:13.313
But most times it was because he had, you know, failed on a back check or whatever you know.

00:39:13.313 --> 00:39:20.266
And I said there's always reasons, and the best coaches have had open lines of communication for sure.

00:39:20.266 --> 00:39:23.632
And I said you can always ask a coach.

00:39:23.632 --> 00:39:25.972
You know why am I down on the fourth line now?

00:39:25.972 --> 00:39:27.150
Or why am I in the third line?

00:39:27.150 --> 00:39:30.634
So if he won't talk to you, he's just a bad coach.

00:39:30.634 --> 00:39:36.568
And you know, when he was young enough, if he wouldn't talk to him I'd go talk to him, that's.

00:39:36.568 --> 00:39:38.193
I stopped doing that pretty early.

00:39:38.193 --> 00:39:42.469
I never had a word with any of Johnny's coaches about his situation.

00:39:42.469 --> 00:39:47.969
The only time I did was when he suffered a concussion in a practice and the coach put him back on the ice.

00:39:47.969 --> 00:39:50.108
I had a problem with that.

00:39:50.108 --> 00:39:55.286
But I've never gone to a coach to say, hey, my son needs more ice time.

00:39:55.286 --> 00:40:02.061
One time I did go and say Is there any reason why he's not getting?

00:40:02.061 --> 00:40:02.692
Because my son was.

00:40:02.692 --> 00:40:04.914
This was when he was young and he was afraid to ask him.

00:40:04.914 --> 00:40:07.217
And he told me and I told my son, we went on.

00:40:07.217 --> 00:40:08.795
I mean, that's just the way it was.

00:40:08.795 --> 00:40:15.478
But there are so many parents who are banging on the coach's door all the time and that's just as harmful as the bad coaches.

00:40:15.478 --> 00:40:18.217
So that's the other issue with youth sports.

00:40:18.217 --> 00:40:23.757
I think there's way more great parents than there are bad parents, just like they're way more great coaches than are bad.

00:40:23.757 --> 00:40:25.697
But there still are some right.

00:40:25.697 --> 00:40:33.038
So we have to work around those, try to educate them, as you said, and do our best with that.

00:40:33.038 --> 00:40:39.440
But it was interesting to watch throughout my son's career the way that works.

00:40:40.052 --> 00:40:48.097
And even at the college level, if you're sitting around parents you hear some things it's like whoa, no, no, are there after the coach for this or that?

00:40:48.097 --> 00:40:50.338
And I was like no, that's not right.

00:40:50.338 --> 00:40:51.634
But I can't.

00:40:51.634 --> 00:40:56.099
I tell my wife I do not want to be around parents.

00:40:56.099 --> 00:41:04.838
When I'm, I only get to see four or five of my son's games at now because the schedules obviously don't NHL and the college schedules.

00:41:04.838 --> 00:41:08.938
It's like they're playing Friday, saturdays almost all the time and I'm almost always busy then.

00:41:08.938 --> 00:41:10.476
So I only get to see them three or four times.

00:41:10.476 --> 00:41:15.097
I don't want to be talking to parents while I'm at one of the few games I can see my son.

00:41:15.097 --> 00:41:17.036
So I kind of I'm anti-social.

00:41:17.036 --> 00:41:30.000
But part of it is because some of the stuff I hear it's just I want to say no, that's not right, that's not why the coach just did that, but that I'm going to come off as this arrogant guy.

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:31.074
I'm not going to do that either.

00:41:31.074 --> 00:41:34.394
So I just try to stay away, right, just let me watch my son.

00:41:35.931 --> 00:41:38.018
I think all three of you experienced that.

00:41:38.018 --> 00:41:44.097
And a couple of quotes for you, jim Mike and I say this all the time when we coach coaches is never be a kid's last coach ever.

00:41:44.972 --> 00:41:46.257
Yeah that's a great saying.

00:41:46.570 --> 00:41:52.418
We take that mentality, and especially some of the funnier ones, especially from kind of the Pee Wee Down.

00:41:52.418 --> 00:41:55.460
This is true all the way up, but from Pee Wee Down.

00:41:55.460 --> 00:41:58.175
You know, when parents approach me of like, well, what are we, what are we working on?

00:41:58.175 --> 00:41:59.817
And they're not being super specific.

00:41:59.817 --> 00:42:01.916
It's like I'm working on making sure they love the game.

00:42:01.916 --> 00:42:10.353
Yeah Right, I'm making sure that they're smiling at the end of practice and obviously the severity goes up as you rise in the age and rise the ranks.

00:42:10.353 --> 00:42:14.217
But your kids nine, my job is to make sure they want to play when they're 10.

00:42:14.217 --> 00:42:17.398
And that they can skate to some level.

00:42:17.398 --> 00:42:19.909
Right, those are things I think about.

00:42:20.092 --> 00:42:21.186
You alluded to something a minute ago.

00:42:21.186 --> 00:42:23.889
That Segway is perfectly into one of my questions.

00:42:23.889 --> 00:42:28.590
Over 30 years you've seen the game change a lot, and I'm not just talking rules.

00:42:28.590 --> 00:42:38.389
Athletes have obviously improved in their athleticism, but you're talking about coaching and I think we've seen coaching change a lot, especially over the last five or six years.

00:42:38.389 --> 00:42:44.389
I won't name specific NHL coaches, but you said it the need to communicate, the need to have some empathy and understand.

00:42:44.389 --> 00:42:54.318
So you can keep it with coaching, you can keep it with anything, but what are some of those kind of more mental changes that you've seen over the years that have transformed the league.

00:42:55.396 --> 00:42:57.389
I mean you can go back to before I was in the league.

00:42:57.389 --> 00:43:01.329
It was more just whatever he says goes.

00:43:01.329 --> 00:43:05.869
The coach was the boss and he didn't need to tell you why he was doing things.

00:43:05.869 --> 00:43:12.302
It was just that's the way it was, that's the way it is, and so that was the way it was.

00:43:12.302 --> 00:43:14.269
Probably into the 80s 90s.

00:43:14.592 --> 00:43:19.150
Scotty Bowman, the all-time winningest coach, wasn't necessarily like that.

00:43:19.150 --> 00:43:27.190
He was more like the mad professor kind of coach that said I'm gonna do these things, you're not gonna know why, but you're gonna do them.

00:43:27.190 --> 00:43:30.637
So there was still that kind of mentality Do it even though you don't know why.

00:43:30.637 --> 00:43:33.664
Well, today's athlete now wants to know why.

00:43:33.664 --> 00:43:35.509
They always want to know why.

00:43:35.509 --> 00:43:46.442
A they've been around through social media and other media, social media and other aspects of our society.

00:43:46.442 --> 00:44:09.710
Now they are around the sport, involved in the sport at an earlier age and in a way larger fashion than we were or anybody even before us or slightly after us, to be honest with you, and I should say, well, after me, a little bit after you, and you know it's I mean so they have more knowledge of this.

00:44:09.710 --> 00:44:14.760
They've already read books, read stories about coaching and things.

00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:17.338
So they're smart, they really are.

00:44:17.338 --> 00:44:29.016
And so coaches now have to be much more open to communicating with their players and kind of rationalizing with them, as opposed to just telling them what to do.

00:44:29.016 --> 00:44:44.498
And I think now and it's been this way for a while but it's getting even more so and probably will continue to but it's now more that the best coaches are the best people managers, not necessarily the best X and O coaches.

00:44:44.498 --> 00:44:46.898
I mean X's and O's can take you so far.

00:44:46.898 --> 00:44:54.072
They can certainly help you and, depending on the sport, like football, x's and O's are still huge Hockey.

00:44:54.072 --> 00:44:55.135
I mean hockey's hockey.

00:44:55.135 --> 00:45:07.599
I mean we hear about the system this team plays and that team, but the differences in systems are so small now that it's more about what you're gonna get out of your players and keeping them happy, motivated.

00:45:08.130 --> 00:45:09.737
And again, can't generalize.

00:45:09.737 --> 00:45:23.858
You're going to be coaching an NHL coach who's going to have, over the course of a season, 30 to 35 players on his roster Unfortunately for the Flyers it's been closer to 40 these last couple of years because of all the injuries but how many other players you're gonna have?

00:45:23.858 --> 00:45:28.480
You are going to have to treat them all differently.

00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.572
There's no blanket Back in the day.

00:45:31.572 --> 00:45:36.556
Paul Brown and the NFL and those guys Tom Landry there's old-time NFL coaches.

00:45:36.556 --> 00:45:37.773
This is the way it is.

00:45:37.773 --> 00:45:41.659
All you guys are gonna do if insulin barty, all you guys are gonna adhere to this.

00:45:41.659 --> 00:45:47.132
You can't do that anymore because player A is a completely different makeup than player B.

00:45:47.132 --> 00:45:49.878
Some players might need to be kicked in the butt.

00:45:49.878 --> 00:45:52.338
Other players might need to be patted on the back.

00:45:52.338 --> 00:45:53.434
You guys know this.

00:45:53.494 --> 00:45:59.856
You've coached, so you have to be very good at analyzing people, understanding what they need.

00:45:59.856 --> 00:46:03.260
Psychology is really a big part of coaching now.

00:46:03.260 --> 00:46:06.699
So to me that's the best coaches of that.

00:46:06.699 --> 00:46:10.719
And you look around at some of the coaches who've been winning lately and that's what happens.

00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:17.737
And then the old-school coaches John Toterell is an old-school coach have had to adjust and the good ones can adjust and have been able to.

00:46:17.737 --> 00:46:23.556
And John in torts will tell you coaches way different now than he used to.

00:46:23.556 --> 00:46:28.679
He's still old school, don't get me wrong, but he communicates a lot behind the scenes.

00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:31.498
If the player comes to him, he's always gonna talk to him.

00:46:31.498 --> 00:46:35.195
Some and John, I think, is one of them still coached through the media.

00:46:35.195 --> 00:46:36.574
Others don't at all.

00:46:36.574 --> 00:46:53.094
It's really what happens behind the scenes, but the bottom line is you gotta understand the players for what they are and coach them all specific to their needs and desires, whereas before it was all.

00:46:53.094 --> 00:46:54.353
They're all my players.

00:46:54.353 --> 00:46:57.054
Here's the way it's gonna be that those days are gone.

00:46:58.831 --> 00:47:08.675
We talk a lot again, mike and I, about how important it is to establish a level of trust number one and then understanding how to motivate someone, and everyone's motivated differently.

00:47:08.675 --> 00:47:13.393
And you said you can't blanket motivation, you can't assume how you were motivated, it's gonna motivate everyone.

00:47:13.393 --> 00:47:15.155
And then there's also the understanding.

00:47:15.155 --> 00:47:21.916
Torts always seemed to me today as the type of guy he's gonna tell you exactly what he wants, and I tell players all the time.

00:47:21.916 --> 00:47:25.039
There is an element of that.

00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:25.480
That's good.

00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:33.375
It's good to have a coach say this is exactly what I want, right, while also understanding who you are as a person and having to get the best out of it.

00:47:33.375 --> 00:47:39.739
Some coaches, especially the younger levels they play mind games and for the life of me, still don't understand that.

00:47:39.739 --> 00:47:42.416
I don't think it's a healthy way to approach any player.

00:47:42.416 --> 00:47:44.273
Mike, you were gonna say something, sorry.

00:47:45.597 --> 00:47:52.835
No, no, I'm just saying you watched the evolution of guys like Mike Babcock and now coming back into the league too, and can he evolve?

00:47:52.835 --> 00:47:58.492
Can he find a way to reach players, and I think a lot of us as coaches I mean.

00:47:58.492 --> 00:48:10.253
It's harder to coach, because I used to love when I get to say listen, this is the way it is and this is how we're doing it, and it's more of a cookie cutter way of coaching, and now it's a lot.

00:48:10.253 --> 00:48:30.681
You really do have to dig in, research your players more, connect with your players more, lean on these support systems more your assistant coaches and other staff members now that are now a part of these teams, and we're seeing, right that the college level and the NHL level more and more depth in coaching.

00:48:30.681 --> 00:48:37.135
Right, there's more coaches coaching more players, which might be a good thing.

00:48:37.135 --> 00:48:43.677
I mean, if you're getting more positional coaching, then all of a sudden, maybe now you just have to go.

00:48:43.677 --> 00:48:52.717
It's like football, right, you only have to go after a certain segment of the team and connect with that group to be successful, and but it is.

00:48:52.717 --> 00:49:07.639
It's good, though, right, it's an evolution, and I think it's crazy to me that that evolution though in coaching actually it's harder to get down to the used level Because there's still a lot of Scotty Bowmans out there.

00:49:07.809 --> 00:49:13.898
There's still a lot of, you know, there's still a lot of guys that say this is the way it's gonna be and that's it.

00:49:13.898 --> 00:49:22.880
And you know, you could see how difficult it is for parents and players to put themselves in those.

00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:24.143
You know those situations.

00:49:24.143 --> 00:49:25.215
But no, it's great.

00:49:25.215 --> 00:49:37.097
I think that's a good thing to remind everybody that's listening, and certainly players, that we all want to evolve as coaches and they could be a big part of that as well, too.

00:49:37.097 --> 00:49:39.597
Right, parents coaching their players, like you did.

00:49:39.597 --> 00:49:51.695
Like there's a certain age when you want your son or daughter to step in and have that conversation with a coach, and there's a certain age when you need to be there with that player and advocate for them as well, because they're just, they're children.

00:49:51.695 --> 00:49:55.175
They're not expected to be able to, you know, make these decisions on their own.

00:49:55.411 --> 00:49:59.498
Yeah, as long as I'm advocating and not trying to tell the coach to play my son more.

00:49:59.498 --> 00:50:02.199
I mean that just doesn't help the coach, it doesn't help.

00:50:02.199 --> 00:50:07.355
I don't think most kids want their parents doing that either, so you know.

00:50:07.355 --> 00:50:09.914
But there's a lot of them that still do that and it's done out of love.

00:50:09.914 --> 00:50:10.992
I understand that.

00:50:10.992 --> 00:50:19.137
But you just have to, as a parent, sit back, look at the situation, put yourself in your kid's shoes skates Do you really want?

00:50:19.137 --> 00:50:24.494
Would you have wanted your parent to go knock on a coach's door and say play my son more?

00:50:24.494 --> 00:50:25.396
I don't think so.

00:50:25.396 --> 00:50:26.574
Not many people would want that.

00:50:26.690 --> 00:50:37.958
So I mean, I remember there was one parent of a teammate of my sons and this was I can't remember exactly what level, but he's probably in the nine or 10 year old range.

00:50:37.958 --> 00:50:45.474
We literally went down and he started banging on the glass of the bench Get my son.

00:50:45.474 --> 00:50:50.695
It was just, I mean just, and the guy's a good guy.

00:50:50.695 --> 00:50:52.280
You know he's a good.

00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:59.516
He was a really good person to be around until the game started and his son was playing and then he was just out there.

00:50:59.516 --> 00:51:08.918
So you know, it's not done to be a bad person, it's done out of love, but you just have to control yourself in that.

00:51:08.989 --> 00:51:17.300
And as far as the coaching, you bring up that point, I don't want to say that as a coach, you can't have team rules that everyone has to adhere to.

00:51:17.300 --> 00:51:19.778
You have to have that basic rules.

00:51:19.778 --> 00:51:23.655
You know beyond time, things like that, that those still exist.

00:51:23.655 --> 00:51:29.114
We're talking more about your interaction with the player over the course of a season.

00:51:29.114 --> 00:51:37.195
You know, on how he's playing, systems, things like that, and then just how he's doing, how he is mentally, and the NHL level.

00:51:37.195 --> 00:51:39.958
I don't know if this is you guys know probably better than I have.

00:51:39.958 --> 00:51:41.396
It's down to the collegiate level.

00:51:41.396 --> 00:51:44.159
But do they have mental health coaches now with the collegiate teams?

00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:45.871
They do, obviously in the NHL I mean.

00:51:45.911 --> 00:51:47.717
So you have people you can go to now.

00:51:48.552 --> 00:51:49.958
So it's slowly being filtered.

00:51:49.958 --> 00:51:53.875
In the issue I have, jim, is there still a stigma surrounding mental health and mental fitness?

00:51:53.875 --> 00:51:54.431
Now?

00:51:54.431 --> 00:52:05.478
It's definitely breaking down very quickly nowadays, but still just the ability to have an athlete say, hey, you can express yourself, maybe not on the ice or on the bench, but let's talk about how you're feeling.

00:52:05.478 --> 00:52:09.989
I guarantee you that's making some listeners uncomfortable Me just saying that out loud.

00:52:09.989 --> 00:52:11.936
So it's an evolving process.

00:52:11.936 --> 00:52:22.469
I believe personally that if you want to get the maximum performance out of a player at any level, you really have to know that person and make sure that they feel safe in that environment.

00:52:22.469 --> 00:52:32.030
And when I say safe, I don't mean like they're not going to get cut or that they're not going to have things happen to them to deal with adversity, but safe in the environment If you can talk about it.

00:52:32.030 --> 00:52:33.536
But you have to be accountable to everything.

00:52:33.536 --> 00:52:35.614
That's where I see it evolving.

00:52:37.271 --> 00:52:38.190
Jamie, you brought up something funny.

00:52:38.190 --> 00:52:39.869
I promise you we won't keep you too much longer.

00:52:39.869 --> 00:52:44.356
I promised our producer Caitlin I wouldn't keep you hostage all day, even though I've been looking forward to this one.

00:52:44.356 --> 00:52:55.717
But you mentioned this, and when I was creating the questions for this, I always try and ask questions, you don't get all the time right and I realized there's one here that's super applicable to all the coaches and the parents listening.

00:52:55.717 --> 00:53:04.018
So when we see a bad call or controversial call, at minimum we can kind of mutter under our breath about it.

00:53:04.018 --> 00:53:05.295
That's the minimum we can do.

00:53:05.295 --> 00:53:08.378
I've been watching you your whole career.

00:53:08.378 --> 00:53:12.519
Very, very few times have I seen you be critical.

00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:17.916
So my answer on the air, I should say how do you work through those moments?

00:53:17.916 --> 00:53:19.876
Because I know you're seeing it.

00:53:19.876 --> 00:53:21.753
You see what I see, you see what we see.

00:53:21.753 --> 00:53:23.494
The refs aren't perfect.

00:53:23.494 --> 00:53:25.757
How do you keep that under control?

00:53:25.757 --> 00:53:29.077
I mean, does it bubble up for you or is it just I'm calling the game right now?

00:53:29.077 --> 00:53:29.478
I'm a pro.

00:53:29.478 --> 00:53:30.494
This is how it's done.

00:53:30.891 --> 00:53:33.534
So you're talking about when I'm on the air now, when I'm watching my son, right?

00:53:33.829 --> 00:53:37.300
I'm definitely talking about when you're on the air, two different things, because you're by yourself.

00:53:37.300 --> 00:53:39.155
When you're watching your kid, you can say whatever you want.

00:53:39.371 --> 00:53:42.233
Well again it comes back to what I was talking about with that other parent.

00:53:42.233 --> 00:53:46.710
I've said some things about refs watching my son play that I'm not proud of.

00:53:46.710 --> 00:53:54.061
I didn't scream it out necessarily, but I at least said it, because it hurts when you see a bad call.

00:53:54.061 --> 00:53:55.356
It hurts your blood.

00:53:55.356 --> 00:53:56.494
It's just different.

00:53:56.494 --> 00:54:00.701
And hey, I've been on this emblem now for three decades, as you said.

00:54:00.701 --> 00:54:04.152
So I kind of bleed orange or black too, but it's not my.

00:54:04.152 --> 00:54:05.835
I mean, I say nothing called.

00:54:05.835 --> 00:54:09.715
When I say nothing called, that pretty much tells you I thought something should have been called.

00:54:10.110 --> 00:54:14.818
So that's basically and there are people out there who think I'm very critical of officials.

00:54:14.818 --> 00:54:21.820
So again, it's all the eye of the beholder because there are other announcers who are probably less so than me.

00:54:21.820 --> 00:54:24.639
There are certainly some that are much more so than me.

00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:35.521
But there are times when I think it was Chris Terry and in his book said it's the one thing he thought I was too critical of calls against the flyers or whatever.

00:54:35.521 --> 00:54:44.842
So it's all what people see, but usually I just say nothing called or I've gotten better at it.

00:54:45.110 --> 00:55:02.298
If you find some tapes of me early in my career, I probably had a couple meltdowns and when fighting was allowed in the brawls and things were happening and you're more emotionally involved there too, where if one of your flyers two guys beating them up or something you start saying things that can't say that on the air.

00:55:02.298 --> 00:55:07.181
And now we're getting to an age where we're seeing where you got to be really careful with what you say on the air.

00:55:07.181 --> 00:55:11.474
So anything ends up as a Twitter.

00:55:11.474 --> 00:55:13.688
You know you send it out on Twitter.

00:55:13.688 --> 00:55:16.074
It can end your job.

00:55:16.074 --> 00:55:21.353
We've seen it with some baseball guys and I mean you just have to be very, very careful.

00:55:21.353 --> 00:55:24.893
So now, even when it comes to calls.

00:55:24.893 --> 00:55:37.414
You know you don't want to be personal about a call on a referee or anything like that, so, but we're all fans deep down, so you know you do have to suppress that.

00:55:37.414 --> 00:55:38.369
There's no doubt about it.

00:55:38.865 --> 00:55:46.791
I was helped by having Jonesy as a partner for the last 17 years because Jonesy was a national announcer and he couldn't go there right.

00:55:46.791 --> 00:55:51.427
So I always knew I had that and he would give the other, he would balance it.

00:55:51.427 --> 00:56:03.612
If I did go pro orange and black sometimes which I definitely did there were times where he was so down the middle on a call that I felt I needed to take it the other way because we're broadcasting to Flyers fans.

00:56:03.612 --> 00:56:22.972
So I thought we were good balance that way and I think I'm gonna have the same issue, same not issue, but the same situation, positive situation with a guy who I'm gonna work with moving forward, which I can't say right now, but yeah, I believe that, yeah, we'll find out soon enough, but if you listen to what I'm saying right now, it's gonna be a very similar situation.

00:56:25.731 --> 00:56:39.572
So I've been blessed throughout my career to have a lot of guys who Gary Doernhofer, my very first television broadcast partner, was CBC national announcer, so he had that same approach too, although he would hammer from time to time more than Jonesy.

00:56:39.572 --> 00:56:47.605
But, again, I'm broadcasting to 90% Flyers fans, maybe 95, maybe 85, whatever it's heavily Flyers fans.

00:56:47.644 --> 00:56:48.548
Depends on what the team's doing.

00:56:49.085 --> 00:56:50.389
That are watching our broadcast.

00:56:50.389 --> 00:56:54.891
Yeah, but I mean so I'm broadcasting from a Flyers fan standpoint.

00:56:54.891 --> 00:56:58.054
When I do games for TNT, it's right down the middle.

00:56:58.054 --> 00:57:05.512
I mean I try to be as smack down the middle as I can be and there's even less a chance of me criticizing an official on a national broadcast.

00:57:05.512 --> 00:57:09.193
So and try to answer.

00:57:09.193 --> 00:57:11.550
Finally get around to answering your question.

00:57:11.550 --> 00:57:15.054
I mean I just try to suppress it as much as I can.

00:57:15.164 --> 00:57:20.894
There are sometimes when the frustration just builds up and you say something and it's not good.

00:57:20.894 --> 00:57:24.094
Now, watching my son, like I said, totally different story.

00:57:24.094 --> 00:57:32.831
Like when there's a bad call against your son, it's very hard to control yourself, at least from saying something.

00:57:32.831 --> 00:57:35.833
I'm not one of these people who's gonna scream at a referee the whole game.

00:57:35.833 --> 00:57:37.931
That does serve nobody.

00:57:37.931 --> 00:57:47.251
Well, I've thought about thankfully never did going down after a game once or twice to say do you realize what the call you made?

00:57:47.251 --> 00:57:55.592
It wasn't always on my son, it was something in the game that I saw that was just so bad and I felt like I needed to go out and tell this guy if you really wanted to continue to be a referee.

00:57:55.592 --> 00:57:57.893
You can't that call, you just can't make it right.

00:57:57.893 --> 00:58:00.588
But I never did that either, what's probably a good thing.

00:58:01.907 --> 00:58:03.393
No, you've always been professional.

00:58:03.393 --> 00:58:04.489
I've loved listening to you.

00:58:04.489 --> 00:58:05.639
I appreciate you.

00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:09.110
No, I appreciate you, and you've mentioned Keith Jones a few times.

00:58:09.110 --> 00:58:10.034
I gotta ask one question.

00:58:10.034 --> 00:58:13.052
So I'm not gonna ask you how do you think he's gonna do, or anything like that.

00:58:13.052 --> 00:58:15.994
I'm actually more interested in the qualities about him.

00:58:15.994 --> 00:58:23.755
You've seen as a player because you call them as a player, and almost as a commentator too, and I remember last person in the broadcast with it.

00:58:23.755 --> 00:58:26.213
I remember moving up to a level like that as John Davidson.

00:58:26.213 --> 00:58:28.931
So there's a precedent here.

00:58:28.931 --> 00:58:31.652
But John Davidson another character type person.

00:58:31.652 --> 00:58:37.112
Tell me about Keith Jones, the person, and how he can transcend so many levels of the game.

00:58:38.025 --> 00:58:42.927
Yeah well, first, of all, when you think about Keith, I think about Keith Jones.

00:58:42.927 --> 00:58:43.871
We go on the road.

00:58:43.871 --> 00:58:47.789
Gms would seek him out, like we go to Edmonton.

00:58:47.789 --> 00:58:54.070
Kenny Howells comes into the cafeteria, media room, whatever, and comes over to talk to Jonesy.

00:58:54.070 --> 00:59:01.097
Jim Rutherford now in Vancouver when he was in Pittsburgh, joe Sacky I can go right down the list.

00:59:01.097 --> 00:59:02.887
We're sitting there and they come over to him.

00:59:04.204 --> 00:59:11.050
It's not like he has to go seek these people out, because Jonesy, first of all, he's through his playing career and now his broadcast career.

00:59:11.050 --> 00:59:13.932
He's had a gazillion contacts, right.

00:59:13.932 --> 00:59:20.996
But he's also somebody that once you're around him for a little while, you feel like he's your teammate.

00:59:20.996 --> 00:59:27.353
So whether it was in broadcasting or certainly as a player, so he's connected all over the place.

00:59:27.353 --> 00:59:31.590
I don't know of anybody right now that is more connected than him.

00:59:31.590 --> 00:59:37.833
So for people who said, wow, he's gonna be a broadcaster president, what kind of preparation is that?

00:59:37.833 --> 00:59:43.152
The only way he could have been better prepared for it was if maybe he'd been a GM, all right.

00:59:43.152 --> 00:59:55.594
But he's connected to all the GMs, he's connected to the team presidents, he's connected to coaches, even players to some degree some now and so he's got that.

00:59:55.594 --> 01:00:03.333
He's got what I talked about before, an innate ability to judge talent which will really come out now.

01:00:03.333 --> 01:00:10.416
He's got old school in him for sure, but he's also willing to always take in new concepts.

01:00:10.416 --> 01:00:17.235
Gotta be open-minded there, and Danny Brear the same thing, so I think there'll be a great duo that way.

01:00:18.527 --> 01:00:19.550
He's dumb like a fox.

01:00:19.550 --> 01:00:26.568
If you were listening to him on the radio, on the show in the morning show, you would not think of him as a future president of a sports team.

01:00:26.568 --> 01:00:27.813
But he's a chameleon.

01:00:27.813 --> 01:00:34.693
He knows how to adjust to his market and when he was on the morning show he wasn't supposed to sound like a future team president.

01:00:34.693 --> 01:00:36.847
He was supposed to sound like a funny person, which he was.

01:00:36.847 --> 01:00:38.989
He's got an unbelievable wit, a very quick wit.

01:00:38.989 --> 01:00:45.936
I wish I had a wit as quick as his, and so I mean that was what he was doing in that role.

01:00:45.936 --> 01:00:48.851
His role as my partner on the air was to be the flyer's announcer.

01:00:48.851 --> 01:00:52.514
His role when he was at NBC or TNT was as a national.

01:00:52.514 --> 01:00:54.994
He was a different person for all those.

01:00:54.994 --> 01:00:56.070
Well, now he's got a different role.

01:00:56.070 --> 01:01:00.213
He's a team president and he's adjusted to that as well.

01:01:00.474 --> 01:01:01.858
He'll do fine, he'll do great.

01:01:01.858 --> 01:01:03.471
I mean some of it's luck.

01:01:03.471 --> 01:01:04.407
They gotta have health.

01:01:04.407 --> 01:01:11.494
I'm telling you right now, if Sean Katsuri and Cam Atkinson come back this year, the flyers could easily be in contention for a playoff spot.

01:01:11.494 --> 01:01:16.706
Everyone's talking about how bad they're gonna be, but there's a lot of going on with the Carter Hart and all that.

01:01:16.706 --> 01:01:17.510
We gotta wait on that.

01:01:18.909 --> 01:01:40.416
But if he's back with the team and Atkinson and Katsuri actually are 75, 80%, even what they were with the young players they already had taking another step, some of them, some won't, some will, and then a couple added to it like Forster, maybe, maybe Andre will see about that but the top half make the playoffs.

01:01:40.416 --> 01:01:41.007
They can contend.

01:01:41.007 --> 01:01:46.117
I'm not saying they'll make the playoffs, not saying they're gonna win this Nellie Cup, but they can contend this year to make the playoffs.

01:01:46.117 --> 01:01:53.253
So, and then you already had Kater Gocci coming, you've got Mitch Gough, you've got some studs down the pipe.

01:01:53.253 --> 01:01:55.269
So they're already.

01:01:55.269 --> 01:02:02.233
They've already transformed this into a pretty optimistic situation and I only see them doing that more and more as we move along.

01:02:02.233 --> 01:02:06.733
So the qualities he has are he's able to adjust the situation, very smart.

01:02:06.733 --> 01:02:07.967
Don't tell him.

01:02:07.967 --> 01:02:08.489
I said that.

01:02:10.465 --> 01:02:11.469
We're gonna send this right to him now.

01:02:11.985 --> 01:02:13.590
No no, no, no, but he is.

01:02:13.590 --> 01:02:14.695
I mean, he's dumb like a fox.

01:02:14.695 --> 01:02:16.951
He comes off as this.

01:02:16.951 --> 01:02:25.076
You know, on that radio at least he'd come off as this guy just sits back lazy, doesn't do anything, you know, and just shoots off one liners.

01:02:25.076 --> 01:02:31.972
Well, he does shoot off the one liners, but he's not lazy and he's very smart and I like his chances.

01:02:31.972 --> 01:02:33.168
And Danny, same thing.

01:02:33.228 --> 01:02:38.949
Danny, I've known him for so long and he did everything he could possibly do to prepare for this job.

01:02:38.949 --> 01:02:42.112
People say, oh, what background does he have?

01:02:42.112 --> 01:02:43.530
What background doesn't he have?

01:02:43.530 --> 01:02:58.954
He was a star level player who went down to the low levels of the minors to look at how those organizations were built and then went right up through and was at his hands at just about every aspect of the Flyers organization over the last couple of years.

01:02:58.954 --> 01:03:04.525
So I don't know how he could have prepared himself any better, to be honest with you, other than being a GM before.

01:03:04.525 --> 01:03:07.451
He was a GM, which you know you can get a GM from another team.

01:03:07.451 --> 01:03:08.396
They went that route.

01:03:08.396 --> 01:03:09.184
It didn't go very well.

01:03:09.184 --> 01:03:13.788
So I mean, I think that these two guys are ready, jim.

01:03:13.827 --> 01:03:20.244
I'll tell you as much as I want to dive on the fish hook to talk about the Flyers with you, I think some of the listening audience would kill me, but I will rate what you get.

01:03:20.385 --> 01:03:24.583
Yeah, like 7,000 other podcasters that I'll do plenty of that, yeah.

01:03:24.945 --> 01:03:32.224
It's a great question talking about the other aspects, to be honest, Right, I'd love to do it, but again, we have a lot of Ranger fans that listen and they don't want to hear about that.

01:03:32.224 --> 01:03:44.074
But, joke and aside, one of the things he said about Jonesy is he understands his role, and I think that that is a key takeaway here, because you know, mike and I have coached players Well.

01:03:44.074 --> 01:03:52.853
I'm a score, that's my role, and the truth is, look, you might be great at scoring and as you get older and develop, you might fall into a role like that, for sure.

01:03:52.853 --> 01:04:01.284
But your ability to fall into multiple roles and be good at multiple roles and, as you said, become a chameleon man, that is a skill set and it's a valuable one.

01:04:01.304 --> 01:04:02.570
Let me say this about Jonesy too.

01:04:02.570 --> 01:04:06.025
As a player, he was almost out of the game at about 19.

01:04:06.025 --> 01:04:08.864
So he's low, low level junior hockey.

01:04:08.864 --> 01:04:11.494
And then he got to Western Michigan and he took off.

01:04:11.494 --> 01:04:13.409
But he has that.

01:04:13.409 --> 01:04:15.094
He doesn't have that.

01:04:15.094 --> 01:04:18.530
You got to be a superstar from the time you're 10 to be good in this game.

01:04:18.530 --> 01:04:20.405
He understands late bloomers.

01:04:20.405 --> 01:04:25.452
He understands also that a team can't be made up of 18 Connor McDavid's.

01:04:25.452 --> 01:04:35.543
You have to have your support players who are willing to accept their roles, and I think team building will be a major strength of his and Danny too.

01:04:35.543 --> 01:04:39.829
So that's and that is really what it's all about right when you're in those positions.

01:04:40.286 --> 01:04:44.693
Well, and I'll also say his book is fantastic, jonesy, if you ever read it, I one quick.

01:04:44.693 --> 01:04:50.045
I remember my favorite game I think it's one of your favorite games is the marathon against Pittsburgh in 2000.

01:04:50.045 --> 01:04:59.552
And he talks about being so tired, I think in the fourth or fifth overtime that he got on the ice, looked left, looked right and got back off the into the bench and it's a great read.

01:04:59.925 --> 01:05:03.635
This right here is the box score from that game.

01:05:03.844 --> 01:05:04.507
Oh, you're kidding me.

01:05:05.585 --> 01:05:06.351
Keith Jones.

01:05:06.351 --> 01:05:08.592
There you are, jonesy, come on.

01:05:08.592 --> 01:05:13.474
Thanks for watching 37 minutes and 50 seconds.

01:05:13.474 --> 01:05:17.576
Wow, nothing.

01:05:17.576 --> 01:05:20.414
Let me see.

01:05:21.708 --> 01:05:23.353
He had a plus minus yeah.

01:05:25.168 --> 01:05:26.793
He had no shots.

01:05:26.793 --> 01:05:28.076
Two missed shots.

01:05:28.076 --> 01:05:29.588
That's the two.

01:05:29.588 --> 01:05:30.956
You go all the way across.

01:05:30.956 --> 01:05:33.849
His stat line is the only one filled Everybody else.

01:05:33.849 --> 01:05:35.655
There's numbers all over the place.

01:05:36.351 --> 01:05:38.949
He literally had nothing but that he had a.

01:05:38.949 --> 01:05:45.469
He tells me, don't forget the plus one, because that was on the ice just going off as Keith.

01:05:45.469 --> 01:05:47.242
He scored the game winner.

01:05:47.242 --> 01:05:49.391
But yeah, he tells that story all the time.

01:05:49.391 --> 01:05:57.054
He tells some great stories about what happened in between periods too, and that's a night none of us who were there will ever forget.

01:05:57.054 --> 01:06:00.353
But yeah, he, that book was interesting.

01:06:00.353 --> 01:06:02.728
He I'll tell you also that you know he hasn't read it yet.

01:06:02.728 --> 01:06:05.909
He's a great writer.

01:06:05.909 --> 01:06:08.396
John Butchie Gruss helped him with that book.

01:06:08.396 --> 01:06:12.211
But yeah, that's just just Jones, that's his sense of humor, don't let him fool you.

01:06:12.211 --> 01:06:15.329
He wrote the book or did that help.

01:06:15.329 --> 01:06:20.530
But, and you know, in that situation he was basically the very end of his career.

01:06:20.530 --> 01:06:27.065
He was on one leg the year before that, in the playoffs he was our best player against the Toronto.

01:06:27.085 --> 01:06:27.608
Maple Leafs.

01:06:28.009 --> 01:06:30.335
We lost in the first round, couldn't score any goals.

01:06:30.335 --> 01:06:32.150
He scored, I think, three of our goals.

01:06:32.150 --> 01:06:35.695
We barely scored in that series and but he was our best.

01:06:35.695 --> 01:06:41.664
But I remember going up to him and saying after the game I did locker clean out day, you are our best player.

01:06:41.664 --> 01:06:47.092
Little I know is that we've worked with this guy for 17 years, but but but good impression you left.

01:06:47.373 --> 01:06:48.900
Yeah, yeah, but I mean.

01:06:48.900 --> 01:06:51.335
So again, you can underscore that too.

01:06:51.335 --> 01:06:52.704
But he played on lines with Peter Forsberg.

01:06:52.704 --> 01:06:54.650
He played a lot with Eric Lydros.

01:06:54.650 --> 01:07:04.315
You know you don't get to that point beyond those lines with the players of that caliber unless you're you're a pretty good player yourself, but he was almost out of the sport.

01:07:04.315 --> 01:07:19.619
So he has that angle too where he can basically see players that maybe in a development camp or in a training camp, who aren't necessarily your studs, because if you look at the winning teams now, you can't have all first round picks.

01:07:19.619 --> 01:07:23.704
You got to have some fifth rounders hit or some undrafted players hit or whatever.

01:07:23.704 --> 01:07:26.077
You know they're all at Braden point.

01:07:26.077 --> 01:07:32.570
You got to have some guys who are not first round picks that hit as really big players, and I think he's going to be really good at fighting those kind of players.

01:07:33.211 --> 01:07:37.684
That bottom six is insanely important in understanding players that can fill those roles.

01:07:37.684 --> 01:07:40.293
And, Jim, I'll tell you I didn't know that was the stat sheet behind you.

01:07:40.293 --> 01:07:42.293
You'll laugh at this, but I went.

01:07:42.293 --> 01:07:46.094
I missed the first half of school the next day after that game and I was so happy.

01:07:46.094 --> 01:07:50.000
My mother and father let me stay up to watch that and I remember them coming downstairs.

01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:54.704
And, for those of you listening, this was well past midnight and I remember the game ended at 2.27,.

01:07:55.286 --> 01:07:55.929
I believe something.

01:07:55.969 --> 01:07:56.610
I remember the coming out.

01:07:56.610 --> 01:07:57.293
You have to go to bed.

01:07:57.293 --> 01:08:04.362
I said I am not going to bed during this game this is the longest game ever and I still remember your call at the end.

01:08:04.362 --> 01:08:08.704
It was fantastic, it's still the longest game in the modern history.

01:08:09.168 --> 01:08:11.704
There are two games longer before forward passing was allowed.

01:08:11.704 --> 01:08:13.110
I see you can't count those.

01:08:13.110 --> 01:08:18.695
Come on, yeah, so the modern history I mean the game last year came really close.

01:08:18.695 --> 01:08:27.327
The game in the bubble came very even closer, but we're still, and so because of that, whenever anyone asked me my favorite moment, I was still that.

01:08:27.327 --> 01:08:32.170
But the 2010 season had a bunch of moments too, and there's been a whole lot.

01:08:32.170 --> 01:08:33.434
You do something for 30 years.

01:08:33.434 --> 01:08:36.171
You got a lot of great moments, but that night never forget it.

01:08:36.391 --> 01:08:40.471
or morning night and morning I'm with you and I'm not going to lie to you.

01:08:40.471 --> 01:08:47.532
I silently root against those games going past this one, because it was a pretty defining moment of don't tell me, but I do too.

01:08:47.725 --> 01:08:49.551
I was really worried there in the finals last year.

01:08:49.704 --> 01:08:50.287
It was close.

01:08:50.287 --> 01:08:51.190
It was close.

01:08:51.190 --> 01:08:53.310
You end up cheering really loud with his score.

01:08:53.529 --> 01:08:57.690
It's before that that was the conference finals.

01:08:57.690 --> 01:08:58.453
Was it a conference?

01:08:58.512 --> 01:09:01.492
I believe so there was a lot of overtime this past postseason.

01:09:01.492 --> 01:09:02.047
I mean it was.

01:09:02.047 --> 01:09:05.050
It was a pretty spectacular postseason, despite the ratings it was.

01:09:05.050 --> 01:09:07.179
It was well done, jim.

01:09:07.179 --> 01:09:09.707
Last one for me as a broadcaster.

01:09:09.707 --> 01:09:12.295
You've been invited into the homes of hockey fans for years.

01:09:12.295 --> 01:09:16.704
As we said at the top, you're entering this is your 30th season, Correct If I'm not, mr 30th?

01:09:17.086 --> 01:09:18.408
Hey, it's 31st.

01:09:18.408 --> 01:09:20.755
It's weird because we had a year we lost.

01:09:21.296 --> 01:09:21.476
Right.

01:09:21.744 --> 01:09:23.644
My 31st year 30th season.

01:09:23.905 --> 01:09:25.878
There you go, okay, so I'm not completely wrong with that.

01:09:25.878 --> 01:09:26.704
No, I'm doing it.

01:09:26.704 --> 01:09:29.314
Look, this is this is true?

01:09:29.314 --> 01:09:35.215
Yeah, again, gene Hart was before you, but you, you are now the voice of an entire generation of Flyers fans.

01:09:35.215 --> 01:09:39.033
I mean, I grew up with you and new fans are hearing you now.

01:09:39.033 --> 01:09:44.832
Is that something that you're able to reflect on in your life, or are you still kind of more just?

01:09:44.832 --> 01:09:46.704
I'm focused on, on the work that I'm doing.

01:09:47.787 --> 01:09:55.219
I can't really put my arms around it because Gene, first of all, I did not replace Gene, I follow Gene.

01:09:55.219 --> 01:09:56.704
No one's replacing Gene.

01:09:56.704 --> 01:10:00.175
He's still, and always will be, in my mind at least, the voice of the Flyers.

01:10:00.175 --> 01:10:06.704
When it kind of hits home a little bit, though, is when I'm talking to somebody your age or maybe a little younger than you.

01:10:06.704 --> 01:10:09.172
They don't remember Gene.

01:10:09.172 --> 01:10:15.953
And so 35, let's say so, people starting to get into middle age.

01:10:15.953 --> 01:10:19.090
Sorry to tell you that I've accepted it.

01:10:19.109 --> 01:10:31.176
Don't, I don't remember Gene, and to me I have that, I, I, I can't wrap my arms around because it seems like yesterday I got here, and you know so that's tough.

01:10:31.176 --> 01:10:48.452
I do get a sense of it, though, when I'm around and the Flyer fans are so nice to me and I mean, I have haters out there too, but for the most part they're really nice to me, and it's you know, I'm on camera for like 45 seconds, so I don't know how they even know who I am.

01:10:48.452 --> 01:10:51.033
Some don't until I open up my mouth.

01:10:51.033 --> 01:11:04.018
But the fact that that many people know who I am, even though I'm not really on camera that much, it shows you that I've been around a long time and that these people really love the Flyers and so, yeah, it's hard.

01:11:04.018 --> 01:11:09.704
I mean, I guess there's only like three or four guys who've been with the same team now longer than I have.

01:11:09.704 --> 01:11:16.609
Sam Rosen, obviously, is the Dean, and then there's a bunch of us right in the same area and with one team.

01:11:16.609 --> 01:11:21.479
It's like Randy Hahn, myself and maybe Joe Beninati.

01:11:21.479 --> 01:11:23.993
There's a couple of us.

01:11:23.993 --> 01:11:28.649
But so, yeah, to me it seems, where I still feel like I'm a young announcer and I'm not.

01:11:29.610 --> 01:11:36.993
So, you know, and what really is made a hit home is this past year Steve Coates retired, my producer, brian Cooper, retired.

01:11:36.993 --> 01:11:41.591
Last year I killed a long time public relations guy for the Flyers retired.

01:11:41.591 --> 01:11:43.295
And these are my guys.

01:11:43.295 --> 01:11:47.413
You know, zach and I started the same day with the Flyers.

01:11:47.413 --> 01:11:50.114
Coates was my guy, my first broadcast partner.

01:11:50.114 --> 01:11:56.654
Brian Cooper had been my only television producer my entire career here in Philadelphia and they've all retired.

01:11:56.654 --> 01:12:00.028
So do the math, jim, you know, it's coming.

01:12:00.550 --> 01:12:01.773
But I just don't think of that.

01:12:01.773 --> 01:12:11.065
I don't feel that way, and as long as I can continue to do as good a job as I feel I'm doing, if I feel it's slipping, I'm gone, I'm out of there.

01:12:11.065 --> 01:12:18.838
I do not want to be one of those announcers whose overstays is welcome, just to make it a certain amount of years or whatever.

01:12:18.838 --> 01:12:23.511
But to answer your question, it really is hard to put my arms around.

01:12:23.511 --> 01:12:31.149
The only time it does is when I talk to somebody your age or maybe a tad younger than you and you know Gene Hart is, and they don't.

01:12:31.149 --> 01:12:37.993
And it's sad to me, first of all because he is the voice of the Flyers and 30 years from now nobody's going to know who I am, I guess.

01:12:38.094 --> 01:12:40.685
But you think about what he did.

01:12:40.685 --> 01:12:44.021
I mean, he taught this whole area, the sport of hockey.

01:12:44.021 --> 01:12:50.597
He did, he really did, and he also got to call two cup championships, which I'll never do because we don't get to call the finals.

01:12:50.597 --> 01:12:55.432
But so he was the eloquent messenger of glorious times, I like to say.

01:12:55.432 --> 01:12:59.439
But he, more and more importantly, taught this area about the game.

01:12:59.439 --> 01:13:01.766
He should never be forgotten, right?

01:13:01.766 --> 01:13:09.997
So if, if you're of your age, I would hope, or, younger, your parents would let you know who Gene Hart was, and make sure you're a flyers fan.

01:13:10.056 --> 01:13:14.367
You know, you know yeah, I can tell you this, that the Gene Hart calls I'm well aware of.

01:13:14.367 --> 01:13:17.676
Obviously, gene, the calls I know are the Stanley Cup calls.

01:13:17.886 --> 01:13:17.985
The.

01:13:18.046 --> 01:13:19.332
Flyers win the Stanley.

01:13:19.353 --> 01:13:19.533
Cup.

01:13:19.594 --> 01:13:19.996
Right.

01:13:19.996 --> 01:13:29.073
So that will always echo in my mind, but I will tell you, as the ambassador of the middle age, that I love listening to.

01:13:29.073 --> 01:13:36.448
You know I mean that, jim, and I appreciate that the answer is humble, but you really have voiced the Flyers for me as well, and that does not.

01:13:36.448 --> 01:13:44.121
Like you said, I'm not replacing Gene with that, I mean he has his time, but for me it's been you and it's been a wonderful journey.

01:13:44.121 --> 01:13:44.685
I mean that.

01:13:45.546 --> 01:13:47.630
It means a lot and I'm blessed.

01:13:47.630 --> 01:13:52.878
I, every time my feet hit the ground the morning, I have a game to call it night, it's a good day.

01:13:52.878 --> 01:14:01.438
So I talk to these students all the time and I tell them when I was like 11, I wanted to be doing a major sport.

01:14:01.438 --> 01:14:07.715
I wasn't picky, I loved hockey, I love football, I love basketball, I love baseball, so it wouldn't matter what matter.

01:14:07.715 --> 01:14:08.936
But hockey kind of came to me.

01:14:08.936 --> 01:14:14.514
It's a long story, we didn't even get into, but the Devils moved their farm team to Utica when I was working at a radio station.

01:14:14.514 --> 01:14:18.568
I ended up doing the games and it was it Bingo and the light went on.

01:14:20.704 --> 01:14:26.414
I loved hockey way before that, but as a broadcaster, that's when it became reality that that was going to be my path.

01:14:26.414 --> 01:14:28.778
Right, because I was doing the AHL at like 24.

01:14:28.778 --> 01:14:32.270
And by 30 I was in the NHL.

01:14:32.270 --> 01:14:35.096
So I'm blessed.

01:14:35.096 --> 01:14:37.207
I'm basically living a dream.

01:14:37.306 --> 01:15:10.261
So, but I really appreciate when someone like you who's been a fan for that many years says that and I do not at all take that for granted and I'm hoping I mean I've had so many we talked about this earlier that so many great moments I've been able to call and I've been blessed to call and lucky enough to call, and I want to get back to that before I hang up the mic or whatever it is to hang up on your broadcaster, because you know I want the flyers to be back to where they were as contenders every year and and I think we're headed in that direction.

01:15:10.261 --> 01:15:17.576
So I want to at least be there to see that through and hopefully to, because I was not around, not that old.

01:15:17.576 --> 01:15:19.057
I was not around when they won their cups.

01:15:19.057 --> 01:15:23.307
I love to see that Stanley Cup going down Broad Street.

01:15:23.307 --> 01:15:26.613
I was part of the Phillies parade in 2008.

01:15:26.613 --> 01:15:32.119
And it's I can't even explain it to you A real quick story.

01:15:32.119 --> 01:15:35.152
We've been on forever here, but you've got to put you as much time as you want.

01:15:36.704 --> 01:15:37.305
How he rose.

01:15:37.305 --> 01:15:43.358
Another guy who had done both hockey and baseball called me after the Phillies won the World Series in 2008.

01:15:43.358 --> 01:15:47.452
And he said get ready for an experience you're never going to forget the parade.

01:15:47.452 --> 01:15:51.639
And I said I'm not really my serious, I'm not much of a parade person.

01:15:51.639 --> 01:15:54.229
I said it'll be fun, but you know, whatever.

01:15:54.229 --> 01:15:56.072
But he was so right.

01:15:56.412 --> 01:16:09.213
I mean, on that float or whatever it was, we were on as a truck, I guess, and I was on it was also on with Harry Callas and the love sent Harry's way was just amazing.

01:16:09.213 --> 01:16:28.565
But to hear the roar and to see the happiness and the love, and in this town in particular sorry Rangers fans, I know the parades are great in New York too, but Philadelphia, the passion they have for sports here is right there with the New Yorks and Boston's, if not a tad higher on the crazy side, I would agree.

01:16:28.565 --> 01:16:31.591
And it's, it's the.

01:16:31.591 --> 01:16:37.801
In that instance it's all love, right, there's no haters in that crowd, it's all love and it's just, it was amazing.

01:16:37.801 --> 01:16:39.704
I'll never, ever, ever forget that.

01:16:39.984 --> 01:16:43.729
So I would love to experience that with the Flyers for sure.

01:16:43.729 --> 01:16:45.770
Whether I'd be in the parade, I don't know.

01:16:45.770 --> 01:16:55.801
But but to see the Flyers get their parade and but even even short of that, to be back in contention in the playoffs, relevant at least contenders for the cup.

01:16:55.801 --> 01:17:00.069
But down the road, that's what I want to see before I give it up.

01:17:00.069 --> 01:17:02.932
But you know, god willing I will see.

01:17:02.932 --> 01:17:04.935
But I really appreciate your comments.

01:17:04.935 --> 01:17:08.279
Very nice of you and I do not take them for granted.

01:17:08.725 --> 01:17:10.667
No, thanks, buddy, and I'll tell you this too.

01:17:10.667 --> 01:17:21.180
I want to see that for you as well, obviously, and I think that one of the interesting things and I'm not making this so much about the Flyers, but the aspect of them is that they lost their identity there for a while.

01:17:21.180 --> 01:17:29.613
I think they're getting it back now and you have been a constant through that, and there have not been many constants through that process.

01:17:29.613 --> 01:17:36.338
Even the jerseys didn't stay constant, so I think that's that's a pretty, pretty strong point you made earlier about.

01:17:36.338 --> 01:17:42.564
You've been doing this with one team for a long time and you know you also get us through those times in a weird way.

01:17:42.585 --> 01:17:50.051
But the last three years have been really difficult, because it wasn't just the hockey.

01:17:50.051 --> 01:18:00.341
We had the pandemic and doing games off a monitor for a while, then in an empty building for a while, with fake sound, and they're going to be actually.

01:18:00.341 --> 01:18:03.704
The weirdest thing, though, is baseball doing games with all the placards in the seats.

01:18:03.704 --> 01:18:05.190
That was the weirdest.

01:18:05.845 --> 01:18:08.233
That's almost like a nightmare scenario.

01:18:08.233 --> 01:18:10.046
Yeah, that was weird.

01:18:10.065 --> 01:18:14.710
But the fake sound in the Wells Fargo is pretty weird to you know.

01:18:14.710 --> 01:18:20.014
We're back to fans and all that, which is thankful, and the team's getting better.

01:18:20.014 --> 01:18:31.386
So and it's fun to watch a team grow and we're going to get to see that process here over the next couple of years and hopefully grow into something special, and that's that's what we're looking for why?

01:18:31.405 --> 01:18:33.088
and you're going to be part of that, mike.

01:18:33.088 --> 01:18:34.350
Any questions before I close it out?

01:18:34.350 --> 01:18:40.024
Me too.

01:18:40.024 --> 01:19:16.496
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01:19:16.496 --> 01:19:19.717
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01:19:19.717 --> 01:19:25.603
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01:19:25.603 --> 01:19:31.127
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01:19:31.127 --> 01:19:35.390
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01:19:35.390 --> 01:19:36.492
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01:19:36.492 --> 01:19:40.774
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