Our Girls Play Hockey - Keeping Girls In Girls' Hockey with Lindsay Fry

Lee MJ Elias [0:08 - 0:59]: Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of our Girls Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias, and I'm joined by Mike Benelli. And you know, we've discussed the transition from co ed hockey to girls hockey on this show. But once that transition is made, another journey begins. Our topic today is how to keep girls in girls hockey. And our expert is a graduate of Harvard University, which you may have heard of, played four years there, of Division 1 hockey. She also played for the U.S. national team in the 2014 Olympic Games. Today she is a leader in women's hockey, having worked with multiple NHL teams to develop girls programming, in addition to being an inaugural member of the NHL's first female advisory hockey Committee, which she is now chair of. These are fantastic qualifications for a fantastic person. Please join me in welcoming Lindsey Fry to the show today. Lindsey, welcome to our Girls Play Hockey. 

Lyndsey Fry [0:59 - 1:00]: Thanks, Lee. I appreciate it. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:01 - 1:27]: No, we appreciate you being here today. And I say it a lot of episodes. I love reading qualifications like that. Not just because, you know, they. They qualify the show, but just so great to see that in the game. To begin with, we mentioned in the open the NHL Female Advisory Hockey Committee. Tell us about that. Why was that formed? What decisions have come across the table? Who's involved? What's it like to be the chair? I'm starting with a barrage of questions. Go ahead. 

Lyndsey Fry [1:28 - 4:48]: All right. Yeah, it's timely because I've been putting a lot of work into it, particularly this week. We're kind of in a revamp right now, trying to get 2.0 of the committee up and running. So we started back in 2018, 2019, and really the goal at that time was to help advise the NHL on girls and women's hockey initiatives. And we had some incredible people in that room yet Angela James, AJ Molesco, just some really heavy hitters. And the first couple of things that came out of the committee. One was a girls hockey toolkit that was essentially just a PDF of best practices ways in which NHL clubs who weren't maybe doing much in girls hockey could start to get their foot in the door and help grow girls hockey in their markets. We also created an ambassador fund, which essentially allowed any of the NHL clubs to bring in a female hockey ambassador for an event, for a clinic, for a game night, whatever they wanted to do to be able to bring some excitement and some exposure around girls and women talking. And then the third big one I would say is the equity fund, which essentially provides $20,000 worth of funding for each NHL club, specifically designed to help bring in somebody, whether it be part time or if the clubs want to make an investment as well, it could be a full time employee. But just really bringing somebody in who's passionate about the girls game wants to put in the time and effort and it allows those clubs to actually make them an employee. And so those would, I would say, are the three big things that came out of the committee initially. Now we're kind of trying to take it to the next level. So we started with a lot of what I would say, like top down approaches. You know, here are kind of these big, large, sweeping efforts and initiatives that we're going to get behind and kind of push it downward to all 32 clubs. But of course what we know is that not all 32 clubs are created equal. And so it's really important that now we start to go from the ground up, meaning we're kind of restructuring the committee. We're trying to get a lot more NHL club representation on the committee so that if we've got a great idea that comes from it, we can then say, okay, Utah pilot this idea. Washington, go pilot this idea. We'll see what works, we'll see what doesn't. And then once we find that out, we'll get it out to all the other clubs from there, or we'll scale it up from there. So we're really trying to get, we're trying to shift from an advisory committee which is currently in our name and that might change to more of an action committee because we've got all these incredible people on it that want to do stuff and want to make a difference and want to get their hands dirty. So I'm super honored to be leading it in this second phase. Really looking forward to it. We've got some amazing, amazing people that have thrown their name in the ring. So it's, it's exciting. 

Lee MJ Elias [4:48 - 5:27]: Well, and you can see on your face, just for those of you listening, how passionate you are about this. And I always love to ask questions about things like this because look, the NHL is a professional sports league giant. But it's this behind the scenes stuff that I don't think people see a lot is that, you know, the league is not just interested in only jersey sales. Right. Like it behooves them to grow the game. And they are invested in growing the game. And I think at times it can be, you know, it's never enough. Right. But I mean, there's only so much they can do. But the fact that it's being done, the fact you're talking about a second phase. I mean, to me, I mean, that's exciting, right? That's. That's a good thing for hockey. 

Lyndsey Fry [5:27 - 5:37]: Oh, it's huge. And, you know, I think as far as strategy is concerned, from the NHL standpoint and from the clubs, like, if. Especially right now, I mean. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:37 - 5:38]: Right, right. 

Lyndsey Fry [5:38 - 6:15]: Caitlin Clark effect, you look at, like, how well the PWHL did and just their shortened season last year, it's. It's pretty remarkable where women's sports are at now, even compared to just a year and a half ago. So, yeah, if. If I think clubs are realizing from a business standpoint, if you are not invested in growing girls hockey, you are gonna miss the boat for so many reasons. And I think that's really why the second iteration of this committee is so important that it's happening here now. We're going to be able to do a lot of great work with that. 

Lee MJ Elias [6:15 - 7:12]: I'm going to say this before I toss it to Mike, too, because, you know, every one of us here is involved in business, and I think there's this misconception that, oh, business, all you care about is money. And I go, it's not. That's not necessarily true. It's. You have to make money to stay in business, but you can have high morals and high goals in business that supersede the money. They have to work together. And I always like to tell that to people because, like, again, as a business owner, we try and do the right thing, but we have to make money, stay a business. So these two things work together. It's not just greed. And I think that from the standpoint of what you're doing with this committee. Right. It shows that adventure. It shows that need to make this work. Because, look, we say it all the time, women belong in sports, million percent. And you're right, Lindsey, that more now than ever is. It's obvious. Right. So I think it's great that we're moving in this direction. 

Lyndsey Fry [7:13 - 8:14]: Yeah. Well, and I think the other thing to keep in mind, too, is just the fact that that's what's so great about the. So I don't know how familiar you are with the industry growth fund, but that's the joint. Yeah. Between the NHL and the nhlpa. Like, that's what I love about that part of what I do. Because we can do things like, yes, the long term is about making money. How do we help the clubs build more fandoms, get more people to the games so that they can ultimately become more profitable? However, when other clubs may or when clubs don't necessarily have the resources at their fingertips to be able to do things. That's what's so great about the fha. See, and the IGF is we can infuse some of that capital that they otherwise might not have and that can help with the proof of concept to be able to get the funding within their own clubs that they ultimately need to make it so sustainable. And that's, it's, it's doing good while doing well and you can do both. 

Lee MJ Elias [8:14 - 8:31]: I totally agree with that. And again, I'll close this little segment here. We're talking about the business side of keeping girls and girls hockey. Let's actually talk about the hockey side of keeping girls and girls hockey. And for that I'm going to sauce this puck over to Michael Benelli. Ladies and gentlemen, put your snaps and your hands together for Mr. Mike. 

Mike Bonelli [8:31 - 9:59]: Keep it going. I think so. I think, I think I'm like me, I'm a per, I'm a benefactor of this. Right. So I'm in the New York area. You know, the Rangers have put a lot of programming behind girls and women's hockey. I was just at another hockey summit with guys like Matt, her and you know, Steve Arulio and, and JC and people like that know that, that not only, you know, because I don't know if it's that they don't have the resources. I mean the New York Rangers have the resources, there's no doubt about that. But what they might not have is the expertise of somebody injecting these subject matter experts into their, you know, into their ecosystem. Right. Because there, there haven't been top women hockey players in the sport of hockey at the NHL level. Like they haven't gone through the NHL. It's easy to get Adam Graves to go do an outreach program for boys. He played with boys. He grew up playing boys hockey and men's hockey. So when I get to see like when Mike Benelli speaking to a six year old girl at a Try Hockey for Free event, it's not impactful at all. When Megan Bozak comes in and speaks to these girls, it is like the greatest thing on earth. And you could see like the way they leave and the way she interacts with them, how important it is for women to be with girls and show them this path exists. But more importantly, I just think there's a different energy. I think I have great energy with the girls programs, but she doesn't need any energy. She is, she is the energy. 

Lee MJ Elias [9:59 - 10:00]: There's the aura, you know, and I. 

Mike Bonelli [10:00 - 10:42]: Think when I see that out of any. Anybody that goes through these programs from the women's side of the growth initiative, you know, that's important. I think, Lindsay, for you, like, knowing that you've grown and created this program in Arizona, you know, for all. For all girls, right? An all girls hockey program. How can you just talk a little bit about how that model has helped you, you know, make competitive hockey across the league? Like having the blueprint and the format that you've already established in a very competitive hockey program that's flourishing in a non traditional part of the. Part of the country and how that could be replicated for all. All girls hockey across the US And Canada. 

Lyndsey Fry [10:42 - 17:21]: Yeah, you know, I think for us. So a lot of people, I think, just don't know where to start, and they get a little overwhelmed by that. And I just had this conversation with some people down in Florida yesterday where unfortunately, people will say, yes, let's grow girls hockey. Let's do a try hockey for free. Let's do this. And if only 10 girls show up, they immediately say, all right, well, that didn't work. It's like anything, right? You got to give it some lead time. You got to believe in it. You got to trust the process. So in our case here, what was mind blowing to me was the fact that when I left Arizona and when I got home after college, girls hockey had not seemed to evolve at all. Like, when I was a little kid, there were. The max was two to four girls teams at any given time. When I got home from college, there were four girls teams. And I'm like, how is this possible? And so I ended up getting, I guess, recruited to the Coyotes with. By a buddy of mine who I grew up with named Matt Schad, who's unfortunately no longer with us, but he was running the amateur hockey development department for the Coyotes at the time. And he said, let's fix it. Let's fix girls hockey. Let's make it better. Because the weird thing was, is girls hockey numbers in Arizona, if you just looked at the USA Hockey data, it was growing, but the teams weren't. So we're like, what's going on here? And so we realized that there were two issues. One, all of these teams were like 12 year and older. So we were essentially relying on boys programs to be the pipeline for girls hockey. And that was. That was not gonna work, okay? Because their passion was not growing girls hockey. So that was. That was problem number one. Problem number two was, okay, well, we're losing a lot of girls because what do they really have? They've got like this kind of two very recreational opportunities, which, like, yes, that's fine. But for the kids that want to do something with this, they were leaving the state just like I did. So we kind of viewed it as, all right, we've got the two, we've got the base of the pyramid, we've got the tip of the pyramid. And we need to simultaneously kind of work on both so that we can eventually close the gap between the two. And so we started one of our IGF programs years and years ago now was starting a Girls Continue to Play. So we had all of the girls go that went through Learn to Play. We would then offer them the opportunity to go into a program that Matt named Small Fries that I'd run for seven or eight years now. And we basically put all of the girls in one program together over the summer. And it's pretty immersive in the sense that it's twice a week, April through August. And the whole point of that is to one, make them just fall in love with it. Being out there with other girls. We only put female coaches on the ice. It is just an all girls, awesome experience. So one, it's that retention piece from Learn to Play, the next step. But two, we have a lot of girls who, especially in Arizona, like their parents, don't know that hockey is an option sometimes until they're 9, 10, 11 years old. And so we're taking a hockey player who is brand new at 10 years old when the boys maybe have played since they were five years old. We need to do some effort and be intentional and trying to catch those girls up a little bit before we just throw them into a league. And so that program has been extremely successful. We get anywhere from 35 to 60 girls per year, which again, some people might say, well, that's not very many. Well, 35 to 60 girls, I mean, that can be four or five new girls teams, like at the house level. That is extremely impactful. And so from there, we put them into now what we've got. So again, going back to the top of the pyramid, we kind of went into it with the mindset of if we build it, they will come. And that's fine when you've already got a base of kids playing, which we did. And we said, you know what? We are gonna, we're gonna use the muscle of the NHL team and the support of the NHL team to build the most premier hockey experience we possibly can and get and give it to the girls. And that's really what we did. And we took it in that first year from those four teams that were split across two different organizations. We absorbed those and we took Arizona girls hockey from four teams to nine teams just right when we started because of that kind of two pronged approach. The other thing we do that I think is really powerful is our rec program. So we have like our development program that's more house level teams and then we've got our elite program which is our travel teams, our development program because again, you get that brand new 10 year old and if you throw them in with other 10 year old boys who have been playing for five years, they're gonna hate it. And so we actually do combo teams at the rec level so that, you know, if you're a TenU, you can play on an 8U 10U combo team and play down so that it's safe, it's comfortable. You're, you know, you might be a foot and a half taller than all the boys, but it's fine. But yeah, it's been extremely successful. So this year we've got 18 teams and it's, that's, you know, five, six years of just layering on top of all that we've been doing. And so I think for me it's, that's always what I recommend to people that want to get into this space is you've got to always, always be focused on your pipeline. You can never take your foot off the gas with your pipeline, but then you've got to make sure that you've got the infrastructure in place to make it a good experience to keep them in it for the long run. And we can talk about the million and one barriers with that and the constant fight that goes on to kind of get over some of the hurdles that people inevitably face. But it's, it's. You put in the work and good things will happen. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:22 - 18:52]: I totally agree a few things on what you just said. One is going all the way back to the beginning of the answer to this question. There was a question of how come this hasn't changed? Why hasn't this changed? And I think that we say it all the time on the show. Great answers come from great questions. That was a great question. And there were people such as yourself that searched out an answer. So I think when it comes to keeping girls and girls hockey for the audience listening, if you get a question like that in your head, you may be the one that needs to answer it. Right? It's one thing to ask it, it's another thing to Take action. The other thing that I wanted to talk about was I remember you saying that there might only be 10 girls there the first time. I've done a lot of work with the Puerto Rican Ice Hockey association, and in the early years of that program, there was a team. Like, it was basically an adult league team. And that organization has grown into hundreds of people now. A national women's team, two national men's teams, youth teams at multiple age groups. And this is all within five years, right? So like you said, you gotta stick with it. It creates new hurdles. Echoing what you said, they have programming throughout the year at different cities around the United States. Again, this is obviously a national program, but the idea is you've got to keep doing those touch points. You got to bring people together. You got to create and then cultivate that community. And I think that before I get to my next question, like, that's part of it, right, Lindsay? You have to create a community and then cultivate. It's not enough just to start, right? You've got to grow it beyond that. 

Lyndsey Fry [18:52 - 20:54]: It's, again, so, like, my. I really think of myself as a businesswoman, first and foremost. Like, I. You have to treat it like a business, right? And there's a lot of different aspects of that. Now, that doesn't mean that you're. You're gouging people for money. Like, we actively are working on our fundraising initiatives. We're constantly trying to keep costs as low as we can. Right? But you have to create the infrastructure. You have to. So, like, in our case, you know, eventually we couldn't be sustainable anymore as we had more and more and more teams. If it was just the same, you know, four or five people doing all of the work, you would never do that in a business, Right? And so we eventually had to, you know, I don't want to say let go of the reigns, but we had to build an organization. We had to get ourselves into a system where we had a reporting structure, we had committees. We had a way to leverage the passionate parents within our organization and put them in a position to where they could be an asset to what we were trying to do and build. And I think a lot of times what I saw in Arizona over the last 30 years is, prior to us coming in, it was a lot of this. Like, you could literally see the iterations. You know, you go back 30 years, and it was, you know, 1.0 of the lady coyotes. Couple passionate dads built it up, and then the kids graduated. Next was the Arizona Select. Passionate dad built it up and it got tired, and it was just the same thing. And so you talk about, you know, why is this so hard? Part of it is, I think people forget to. To set things up and structure things in a way that's going to outlive their time with the program. And that's just business 101. If you're the only one that's ever running a business, as soon as you're done and you retire and you're done with it, business is gone. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:54 - 21:02]: Well, it can be a little ego in that, too, right? Like, a little bit of, why can't. I can't let anybody else control this because of politics. And it's like, I had that challenge. 

Lyndsey Fry [21:02 - 22:11]: I absolutely had that challenge. I think a lot of people do. They're like, nobody's going to care about this as much as I do. And honestly, as soon as I look, it's like any organization, they are going to be the people that say they want to help, but they're really just saying it to their kids. And then there are the people that, oh, my gosh, like, they will put in the work and the effort, and. And they're the good ones. And what I've learned over the years is you have to find ways. If you. We talked about piloting things earlier. You have to find ways to put people in positions where you can kind of see if they're in it for the right reasons, for sure. And then once you learn the answer to that question, then you find a bigger role for them. That's why having committees has been really helpful to kind of see who are who the people who just want to, like, say that they're involved are and who the people who are, like, actually going to roll up their sleeves and get some stuff done. And that's been really good. But you need those people. You have to have those people. 

Mike Bonelli [22:11 - 24:43]: Well, plus. Plus you had some good east coasters out there. I think you had Rossi out there for a little bit, and Clark. There were. There were two women that were, you know, ex college hockey players, you know, transplanted into the, you know, the Arizona desert there. But you need passionate people, right, that don't have, you know, it's great to have parents and people and have kids that are in the program, but it's also really important, like you said, to continue to find people that want to give back and build a legacy without worrying about, you know, like, I do this in. In our lacrosse community. Like, our. Our board members have a say. They have a fifth grader. Well, when that Fifth grader becomes a sixth grader, they no longer care about the fifth graders. And I think, you know, having people involved that are, that are still passionate and advisory but that understand that they're only there for the time period their kids are there, which is fine, but we have to build in resources and, and programming that sustains whether, you know, every parent in the building can leave. And this program still has to be able to function with the people that are there because they just don't have an invested interest in their own kid. That's where the money has to come in. I mean it becomes a place where like when it disappears, everyone's like, oh, what happened? How come that's not happening anymore? Well, you realize this thing costs. I mean I, I think people discount the cost of things because parents supplement it by giving their own time. But, but if you're not going to have a parent that gives that time, you know, and we're seeing that across the country in every sport, right? The, there's less volunteerism and more like just, I'll just pay somebody to run this. Like so all of a sudden the cost gets higher and higher and higher because there's nobody. Like your scheduler now is a paid person, your registrar is a paid person. Like instead of the old days, you know, not too long ago where your scheduler. So mom and dad that just decided they were going to put in the 20 hours a week gratis and make it work. But the more we give away as parents volunteerism, the more these programs are going to rise in cost. And then programs like yours, thank God are there to take that IGF money and take that funding and insert the, you know, the, the, the, the organ, the, the organizational structure so he could continue to do these things because all of us hate it, right? All this hate seeing all this great effort going and starting something and then you come back three years later go, what happened in that program? Oh, that one dad who was crazy passionate, he left and went to this other organization. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:43 - 25:41]: Well, Mike, I think Lindsay gave some, it's crazy. Yeah. Lindsay, you gave great advice there before of, about testing people out, right? And like, it's funny, I feel like, Mike, we've talked about that before from like when you have overzealous parents, give them a responsibility and you'll find out how serious they are because they get very quiet if they don't want to do that job. But, but you know, I find this in business as well. Is that you, you've gotta, I don't know if test is the right word. But you got to put people in positions where they can succeed or if they're meant to succeed. You'll see that. I actually think that's great advice for the audience because, again, you have to be willing to delegate some responsibility if you want to grow your organization, whether it's hockey or business. And sometimes they're going to make mistakes, and then you have to see how they respond to that. If you put someone in a leadership position, they make a mistake and then they do everything they can to rectify that. You found something right there. Right. And you can't come back. Right, Lindsay, with a. I wouldn't have made that mistake. But you can't do that. 

Lyndsey Fry [25:42 - 25:57]: And that's where, like, I, you know, before, that comes just with. That comes with time, that comes with. Again, when you've got the right structure in place, mistakes are not as drastic. 

Lee MJ Elias [25:57 - 25:58]: Right. 

Lyndsey Fry [25:58 - 28:39]: But when you've got a super, super small group of people doing all of the work, one, more things are going to slip through the cracks and you're probably going to screw up more. But two, like, when people see a lot more touch points that they can interact with as, like a person of leadership or somebody who can get to the person at the top and take their concerns somewhere, I think there's a lot more trust that, okay, they're, you know, yes, they might make a mistake here and there, but there just seems to be a higher level of grace and forgiveness when those mistakes are made. Sure. When they know how many people are in different positions trying to make things better. And when some of them are parents, what I've found is like, then all of a sudden, it's not us against them. It's like, all right, this is my peer as another parent trying to make a difference. Like, I, I'm going to show them a little bit more forgiveness than, you know, perhaps the page at the top. But going back to the payment thing, this, you know, this might sound contradictory to what I was talking about earlier. I am actually a huge person opponent in paying people. Now, that does not mean you have to pay them a crazy, crazy amount. But like, even our rec level coaches, we give them a very, very small stipend. For me as a leader, like, if I want to create a professional organization that people love and trust, for me, it's accountability. And that's always a thing. Like, that's why, yes, our volunteer committees, amazing. It's great. But if I've got a coach that's not showing up because they're too busy, like, for me to be able to say, hey, like you have a contract. You. Like this is, this is something that you agreed to. It just allows me to hold people accountable in a way that I think sometimes can unravel the fabric and the trust for organizations. And so it's, it's a balance. It's figuring out how you can leverage the volunteers and how you can leverage the paid people. And obviously, you know, size is a big. If you've got one team, yeah, you're probably not paying people, but we've got 18 teams. I'm like, I need to make sure that some of the people that are working on this machine are feeling compensated. And most of them are parents. It just goes back to their kids fees anyway. So it's all, it's all secular. 

Mike Bonelli [28:39 - 28:43]: Yeah. But it does, it does, it does make, you know, it does put skin in the game. 

Lee MJ Elias [28:43 - 28:43]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [28:43 - 29:59]: It makes, it makes it so like, I know like the adult leagues I've run forever, right. I've always made. Everybody on the east coast has like, gives goalies free. Like they are goalies free. So I've always charged our goalies. And if you show up for all 10 games, you get your money back. Like just if you don't show up and you blow us off and we can't have a game, then you're getting billed. Like, I think that's kind of the same way, you know, for us as volunteers. You know, if I know that I'm getting paid, whether I'm physically getting paid or my kids getting a discount or I'm getting better swag than everyone else, whatever it is, there is value in that. And I think, Lindsey, you're absolutely right that you have to. There are programs. At some point, people need to be in paid positions because the, because now you want that level of not only professionalism, but you want to know that when a game scheduled on a Saturday at 7am that the game's been confirmed, it's been double confirmed. It's been, you know, it's been set up, the refs are there. Like that takes as parents that aren't paid to do this piece, then it, A lot of that stuff falls through the cracks. And we see that happen over and over and over again. So to me, I'm a parent that will pay you. Is there a fee? And you're telling me it's run professionally and it gives me back some time for me to help you in other ways as an organization, I'm 100% for it. I think that's great. 

Lyndsey Fry [29:59 - 30:56]: And I think the Reality too. Like people listening to this might be like, okay, what is? You guys are going in a completely different direction. I'm here to figure out how we keep girls hockey or girls in hockey. I think like, this is such an underestimated part of it because as soon as things start slipping through the cracks, as soon as things start falling apart, you lose trust. And the reality for our girls that play is they do have another option. They can play co ed, they can go to prep school, they can go elsewhere. Like, you have to be dialed in on the back end if you want to put out a quality product on the front end. And ultimately, like I believe in youth sports, we have to be even better than a traditional company because we are dealing with the two things that people are extremely emotional about. Their children and their money. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:56 - 30:56]: Right. 

Lyndsey Fry [30:56 - 34:03]: We are asking for, especially in Arizona, ice is expensive. We are asking for a lot of money, a lot of travel, a lot of time. And so if we are not really showing them that their kids are getting absolute top notch quality, then they're going to go to the boys program down the street where they see that quality and that's where they're going to play. And so it's. This kind of stuff is so much more important than I think people realize. The other thing that I think we do a little bit different that perhaps some people don't consider a lot of times, if you fall into that trap of like, just make it as cheap as possible. Yes. That is that we want to keep costs low. Everybody find me a business that doesn't want to keep cost low. However, if you just marketing 101, price is an indicator of what you're going to get. So you could have the absolute best product in the entire world. And if you charge a dollar for it, there are going to be people that don't buy it because they see that as, all right, well, that's way cheaper than the other programs. So I don't know if that's really where I want to, if that's the quality I'm looking for. So I think a lot of times we underestimate that families are willing to invest in something that they think is quality and is going to make their daughters lives better. And so sometimes I think with, with certain programs, when it's all just, you know, scrappy parents trying to make it work, which again, is a wonderful, wonderful starting place. But Mike, to your point, as things start slipping through the cracks, as things start, you know, now all of a sudden it's like, all right, well, I paid for what I got, like, now I'm frustrated, now I'm annoyed, now I'm going to try to figure out something else. And it just can get really, really messy. And so I think what we've tried to do is we've, we do massive fundraisers every year. And then we try, we evenly distribute that. Well, we have like an algorithm based on whether it's travel, team, rec team, how much they travel, et cetera. And we distribute, you know, that big pot to everybody to try to reduce their costs a bit at the start of the next season. But then for the kids who like, truly cannot afford that price point, we do a massive fundraiser annually just for our financial assistance fund. And so that way the kids that really, really need the help, we can help. But the families who are willing to invest and pay for the quality of the program that they're getting, we allow them to pay for that. And it's just, you've got to find, just like any business, you've got to find that balance between the two. And it takes time and it takes a lot of effort, for sure. 

Mike Bonelli [34:03 - 34:54]: Note to listeners, if Mike Benelli puts out a shooting clinic for fifteen dollars, it is well worth it. Now, I'll charge 75 if you want to do it, but my fifteen dollar clinic is well worth it. Just thinking about that, Lindsey, you know what, because you, because you mentioned about, you know, the, the, the challenges, right, of, of not running a great program or, or if you're running a program like where the drop off is and why people change. And Lee, I know I'm jumping in a little bit, but you're good. Go for it. Have you faced getting girls involved in hockey, right, and then keeping them in hockey? Not so much them leaving to go to a boys team or another program, but what are the challenges of just saying, hey, you got to jump in and then how do we keep you in? And you know, where do you feel like the pitfalls are that we do as organizations that have these girls kind of branching off? 

Lyndsey Fry [34:55 - 37:00]: Well, a lot of communities only have one girls program. In our case, we have one girls program for the entire state of Arizona. And so that increases the pressure. I mean, when you've got the monopoly like you, you better be able to deliver the best quality product. Because while, yes, some families will say, okay, I'm just jumping ship or whatever, or I'm gonna go play boys, like a lot of girls have no interest in that. They don't have an interest in going to prep school. They don't have an interest in Playing boys hockey. They love it because they love playing girls hockey. So if they don't have a good experience, then their alternative is to just quit. And so I think, you know, it goes back to we've got to make sure we're putting together the best possible experience that we can. That's the no brainer. I think some of the other things are recognizing that not all girls are created equal. So how, you know, I've, it always makes me chuckle and I fight this battle sometimes with our state board where they're like, well, I don't understand why we need to, you know, allow this girl to play up when she could just play boys. And I'm like, I was the girl that was perfectly fine playing boys. I have girls that walk in in tutus and cat ears like they want nothing to do with the boys. Like, this is a social experience for them to hang out with other girls and that is the only reason that they're here. So yes, that's why if we don't have a team for them at their age level, we want to still be able to put them on a team with all girls. And so I think sometimes it's as simple as just getting over some of that mentality and that stigma of, well, back in, you know, 20 years ago, girls just played with the boys and it's like, yeah, and we didn't have as many girls playing hockey back then because we were missing out on an entirely different demographic. 

Mike Bonelli [37:00 - 37:10]: Well, and nobody cared. Like anybody's like, oh, you're a girl, you're probably, probably don't play hockey anyway. Like we just had a guest last week, right. It's like I wasn't even offered to me because it was like, oh no, my brothers play hockey. 

Lyndsey Fry [37:10 - 37:10]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [37:10 - 37:37]: Like so, so now it's, it's there, it's, it's this. I mean, it's so boring to me because I'm just like, I don't know, you come in, you're five years old, you want to play hockey, you play hockey, I don't care. You know what you are. So. But you, but you're absolutely right. Having the ability to, to manage the, the parent that wants the elite athlete and the one that wants the 2:2 athlete to work together and symbiotically try to be in the same rink, you know, and it's hard to do. It's a hard juggle. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:37 - 37:53]: I, I always like to bring up in moments like this from what you both said, like one of my favorite quotes from a woman, Grace Hopper, who is a Rear admiral in the Navy. The most dangerous phrase in the language is, we've always done it this way. 

Mike Bonelli [37:53 - 37:54]: If. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:54 - 38:09]: If you are saying that you're in danger. If you say that or think, well, 20 years ago, it was done this. What are you doing? You can't apply that to any. Twenty years ago, the Internet was its infancy. 

Lyndsey Fry [38:09 - 39:25]: Yeah, yeah. No, it's so true. And, you know, I even had to challenge my own biases. And I think that's. To your point. You hit it right on the head. Like, even some of the really, really passionate people who want to grow it, we still have to constantly check ourselves. We have to recognize that what girls value today is very different than what we valued 20 years ago, even women. So we need to be able to figure out how we can reach all of them. It's no different. Again, it. For me, it comes back to business like, it's a marketing problem. Okay. We can't. We've got to be able to understand our customers. We've got to be able to understand the different segments of who we're working with. And furthermore, we. You know, I think one of the biggest challenges that places face is when they've got a lot. They've got a limited pool of girls, so they've got a ton of different talent in almost any other sport. Like, you would never put a beginner with an elite player. And yet we try to do it all over the country, all the time because of how small the pool of girls is. 

Lee MJ Elias [39:25 - 39:28]: And nobody wins in that, neither player. 

Lyndsey Fry [39:29 - 42:07]: Marketing, it's. It's straddling and so trying to. I think a lot of times we try to force things, whereas instead of, you know, hey, we're going to beg and plead and try to keep that elite player here rather than having her go play elsewhere, like, yes, if she wants to, that's wonderful. But focus on where you're at. Focus on what your strengths are. Focus on, like, building it up so that you don't have to beg that player to stay in order to have a team. And I know that's a really, really hard pill to swallow, and especially at the beginning, you know, you're going to have to try to keep at least some of those players that maybe are on the edge of needing to go elsewhere, but I just think, like, you can't. We've seen it where it's, you know, they try to build a team around one or two kids, and as soon as that one or two kids decide to depart, like, it crumbles. The other thing I see with that Is with those passionate parents. You know, sometimes you get the group that started the program when the kids were nine years old and they've grown up, grown up, grown up. And all of a sudden now that 19 new team is like really good. But you look at the rest of the organization, it's average. And it's like, again, you've got to find if you want to make sure that you keep your product strong and you keep it a place where girls want to keep coming back and want to sign up and are excited because this is the cool thing to do. You can't fall into that trap of obsessing over one group or one birth year. And that goes to like board representation. Do you have a representative from the different segments of your program on your board weighing in on certain things? That was a blind spot for us for a long time. Now we have parent reps for the different levels on our board. And anyone that runs a big organization knows you spend a lot of your time on your travel program because that's where the most money is. More money, more problems. Right? Like there's just always something. And then, you know, our development rep chimes in and is like, hey, I've got a little bit of an uprising that I'm dealing with right now because people are pissed off about X, Y or z. And you're like, oh, I thought the rec kids were all just happy. 

Lee MJ Elias [42:07 - 42:07]: Dandy. 

Lyndsey Fry [42:07 - 42:16]: Yeah, well, if your rec kids aren't happy, your travel program in five years is not going to be strong. So it's just, it all has to work together. 

Lee MJ Elias [42:16 - 43:30]: Well, Lindsay, we've talked on the show and Mike has done a great job in researching kind of youth hockey in other countries. And one of the things we found, Mike, that you shared with us is that the investment that foreign countries make in their early stage development, that some of the coaches from that 6 year old to 12 year old group are, they're paid and they are extremely talented coaches for that age level. And I, I, I'm gonna echo what you say. I see this across the board. There's a nonchalant attitude sometimes with the might and the squirt age groups of, oh, they'll be fine. They'll, they're gonna love hockey. And you know, the truth is this. If you're not developing those kids correctly, all right, because the amount of times that I hear about rankings and score lines and standings and not, not that I don't care about those things, but they are not the priority over the development of this kid who can't skate Right. Like, like you, we do a really poor job I think in youth sports, Jet broadly, this is not just hockey of focusing on, you know, if you really invest in the development of their skill sets and them as a person and make them well rounded, they're probably going to do a lot better, you know, than the natural talent that you have. 

Mike Bonelli [43:30 - 43:31]: Speak. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:31 - 43:31]: Go ahead. 

Lyndsey Fry [43:31 - 44:19]: I'm just saying it's so true. And that's why for me, like I. Is running small fries in the summer the most convenient thing in the world for me? No. But do I still do it? Hell yeah, I do. Because I need to be able to show that this is something that matters. Like building our pipeline, building our base, getting those kids ready to enter our program is so, so important. And that's why I need to be there and I want to be there. And we're bringing some of our strong female coaches out there. It's not just, you know, we've got. And we're also now bringing a lot of our like 16 and 19 new players out and teaching them to be coaches. 

Lee MJ Elias [44:19 - 44:20]: I love that. 

Lyndsey Fry [44:20 - 44:38]: Going to need them down the road. But yeah, because of exactly that, we've got to develop that talent so that they like it. They are confident in themselves, they're confident in their ability and ultimately down the road they're able to compete. 

Lee MJ Elias [44:38 - 45:10]: I just want to say to everyone listening, whether you love our girls play hockey or kids play hockey, whatever, I am a big believer in having your older kids volunteer their time to work with the younger kids. Not only is it rewarding for the older kids, they don't realize that till they get there ever. Right. They'll complain. But you're building, as you said, that pipeline there. It doesn't matter how good Mike and I are at, how good Mike and I are at coaching, if we bring an 18 year old kid on the ice, the kids are listening to that kid. It doesn't matter what we know. You know what I mean? 

Mike Bonelli [45:10 - 48:15]: We both love it. That both sides love it. The kids love it and the kids love it. Like they love, they, they both love doing it. Now you can't have a 19 year old, do you know, 40 Saturday mornings in a row. Then they don't love it. Right. But, but this is, we talked about this a lot, Lindsay too, on other shows like, you know, build those teams of kids, you have a 19 you girls team, then get, get them to be teams within the team. Like okay, your, you3 girls are our, one of our teams. Right. So one of you have to be here for each of These sessions, the other two sleep in, you know, but you know what happens? They get up, they come. I mean it's amazing when, you know, when, when they get, when they get invested and they have a little six year old looking up at them like thinking they're, you know, Lindsey Fry. It's like, holy crap. Like this is like what I want to do. Like this is who I want to be. And I think to sit to just to, you know, kind of piggyback on what you said earlier about, you know, the, the programs of excellence do have their best coaches running the start of the true. That is the problem is like as a guy who's hired, you know, countless hockey directors, the, my biggest red flag is when somebody comes in and wants to be like a leader in the club and, and they only ask about the 18U select team. Yeah, I'm like, I don't even care about the 18 select team. You're not even going to be here by then. Like you're, you're going to probably be fired by that time. I said so I need you to want to love to bring in every five and six and seven year old kid I can find, you know, within 40 miles of my building. And I need you to be the best, most energized high performance coach there is. Because I think, you know, and Lindsay, you've grown up in the USA Hockey system. I mean you've seen like, like if you don't have great fundamentals at the beginning and passion built into a player, there's no way you're going to have a, you know, a great 19U team or an Olympic team or professional women's hockey players. So finding those people, I think if you go back to USA Hockey and what Lindsay described, actually if you're listening to this and you're a director or somebody in charge of your girls program going to USA Hockey, go find a model club application. You don't have to apply for it, but if you follow the guidelines of having an 8 year director, a 10 year director, a 12 year director, all these points of emphasis and people that answer to the other group, it's going to lighten the load. It is the best practice and it's proven Lindsay's program is one of those programs that proves it that you know, you get all these people involved, they all have ownership in the growth of the program. It makes it easier for the person who's directing it, but really ultimately it makes it better for everyone because you just have higher performing athletes at the end of it that are Having fun, too, to boot, right? So I think it's. It's something definitely to, you know, if you're interested in growing girls in women's hockey and building a pipeline, follow Lindsay's program. We've all paid USA Hockey fees. Follow USA Hockey fees. They're free. Take them. They did it. They've done all the work for you. Just follow the model and it works. 

Lee MJ Elias [48:18 - 48:22]: There's so many places we can go for. Mike, you know what? I was helping a team out the other day. 

Mike Bonelli [48:22 - 48:28]: I get so mad because Lindsay said it like, why are we reinventing the wheel? Every single look, look there for you. Take it. 

Lee MJ Elias [48:28 - 48:45]: I'll tell you how the simple this goes, and we'll get right back to the topic. But, you know, I've got a great coach dad, right? Attitude for youth hockey. And he was a little lost on this practice planning. And I said, like, do you have the USA Hockey mobile app? He's like, no. 

Mike Bonelli [48:45 - 48:45]: Why? 

Lee MJ Elias [48:45 - 48:46]: I said, because they'll. 

Lyndsey Fry [48:46 - 48:46]: It's. 

Lee MJ Elias [48:47 - 49:50]: They'll make the practice for you. You don't have to do anything. You know what I mean? Now, listen, with that said, if you're a creative coach out there and you like to create drills, I love that. I love that. But if you just need a practice plan there. There's so many resources out there, from coach them to USA Hockey mobile app to everything to assist you. You do not have to reinvent the wheel. I do find at times, there's a lot of people out there that want to make a difference, but they want to be the one that comes up with the new idea. And it's like, that doesn't always have to be that way. Sometimes you take something like what Lindsey's created and say, okay, I'm going to implement this. And you know what, Lindsay? I've got an idea how we can make this aspect of that better. That's evolution. That's what you want. You don't have to start from scratch. Speaking of that, Lindsey, you kind of want a couple directions for some of our questions here. You talked about small fries and other events kind of at that beginner age. I'm interested for the audience if there are other events you've seen or created that you can share with them in girls hockey that maybe they can recreate within their organizations. Because I think you've done a lot of that. 

Lyndsey Fry [49:52 - 50:15]: I think having that continue to play is probably one of the best things we do. And I truly attribute that program to so much of our success, because it's just. It eliminates that Drop off that we see after learn to play. Now we actually have an all girls learn to play. That. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:16 - 50:17]: That's awesome too. Yeah. 

Lyndsey Fry [50:19 - 50:53]: But you know, we didn't for the first four or five years of that program. But it just takes that girl who's kind of on the edge, isn't really sure and takes that parent who's kind of on the edge, thrust them into an environment where they're safe, they're having fun. It's a socially completely different experience and they love it. And so I. That is one of the first things that I recommend to places is have some sort of next step program between learn to play and throwing a girl into it. 

Mike Bonelli [50:53 - 50:54]: Yeah. 

Lyndsey Fry [50:54 - 51:24]: Like build them up before you throw them in to the fire. The other thing that I, I think we've done well it. Which by the way, we. I have tier one players on my team now. I coach our 16. Tier one team now. I coached our mic team for many years, but a bunch of them were small fries. Like, how cool is that that you have these kids that were small fries five, six years ago that are now playing tier one hockey. 

Lee MJ Elias [51:24 - 51:38]: If that's what you know. What's going to happen too is as we're seeing the growth of professional women's hockey and collegiate hockey, you're going to see a surge out of that area of girls hockey players. It's going to be pretty cool, 1,000%. 

Lyndsey Fry [51:38 - 52:12]: I mean, we've got three women's college hockey teams in Arizona. They're all. But like, it's a great opportunity for these kids to have visibility that I certainly didn't have growing up. But I think the other thing that we do is just don't be afraid to get creative. And again, like, it goes back to Angela Ruggiero and I have this conversation all the time of like, on the professional level, we are so past the point of like, women's sports is the right thing to do. And that's like. 

Lee MJ Elias [52:12 - 52:13]: Right, right. 

Lyndsey Fry [52:13 - 52:29]: Like, no, it's because it's a freaking good business plan. Like, it's. The upside is going to be massive. Get in now. It's like any investment. Be an early adopter now and reap the benefits in 10 years. Like, you're about to miss the boat. 

Mike Bonelli [52:29 - 52:30]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [52:30 - 52:33]: You're absolutely right, Lindsay, by the way. I just want to. Just want to back you up on that. 

Lyndsey Fry [52:33 - 54:11]: Yeah, but it's, it's. So when I, when we first started our house program, like, all right. The biggest challenge I think anybody faces in the girls hockey space is ice time and ice equity. In Minnesota, it works because all of the rinks are publicly owned. They literally have it in their bylaws and policies that there has to be equalized time for boys and girls. That's unique. Arizona doesn't have a single public ice rink. Everything is private. And we see that all over the country. And because of that, they can do whatever the hell they want. Like, they don't have to. They don't have to give girls ice time. So when we were starting up our house team, we're like, okay, well, where are these kids going to play? We went to the rinks and put together a legitimate business proposal. Not a, hey, this is the right thing to do. It was a, hey, yeah, you guys already have eight teams in your mike division for your house. Reserve 15 of those spots and we will fill them for you. You guys get to say that you're supporting girls hockey. It's going to make you look good from a PR standpoint, but from a business standpoint, it will not change your. Your top line. You are going to get the exact same amount of revenue by us doing this relative to. And I go, and if I don't deliver on the 15 players and I only get you 12, we'll pay the difference. Yeah, but like, it is not. You literally have to do nothing and you get to say, we support girls. 

Lee MJ Elias [54:11 - 54:12]: I like the way you're doing. 

Lyndsey Fry [54:13 - 54:35]: So being able to present it in that way rather than, I think sometimes, don't get me wrong, there are times you gotta pick your battles and there are times where you gotta go in and really fight. But there are also times where it's like, you gotta just presented as a business case. And that's what's going to speak especially to a lot of these private brains. 

Lee MJ Elias [54:35 - 54:36]: Right? 

Lyndsey Fry [54:36 - 55:26]: So it's, it's, I think now we have so much data and so much information on programs around the country. Again, we talked about, like, showing that Runway. If we can equip some of these programs that are up and coming to be able to say, hey, look, in Arizona or in Florida or wherever it is, this is what it looked like after five years. This is why I'm asking you to get in now. If we in five years have not like created proof of concept for you, we can scrap it. But those are usually not the conversations that take place. It's, you suck. Why are you guys. You don't care about girls and women. You don't care. And it's like, that's just not how you're going to get things done. 

Lee MJ Elias [55:26 - 55:48]: No, never. And Again, nobody wants to feel that way, number one. Number two, I like. It kind of goes back to what we were saying about paying or being paid. Don't devalue the product. Right. Saying it's the right thing to do, which may be true, devalues you. It's not just the right thing you to do anymore. You, you said that perfectly, Lindsay. Like, this is. This is a fledgling business. You work. 

Mike Bonelli [55:48 - 56:51]: You work with Matt, her a lot, I'm sure. Direct and I think. And Matt sat there with like, basically a calculator with like, I don't know, 15, 18 rank owners the other night that we were in a meeting and he's like, this is more valuable if you go this way. Like, like, let me show you. Like, we have a joke around here in the east Coast. Like, well, I. I produce all these hockey players and I send them all to Marlboro, Massachusetts every weekend. They go play and spend their money in that guy's rink. I don't know the owner of that rink. I mean, why are they spending money in my rank? Like, so. So, like, I think just understanding how the business of hockey works and just understanding the business of a wrecked player's dollar is as much is worth maybe more than a travel player's dollar ultimately, because they're going to spend every dime in your building. They don't need to go anywhere else. And there's many, many, many more people now again, as the funnel gets smaller, we know what happens. But there's many more people at 7 years old that are normal. Right? Not crazy like Lee, what's the saying that the hockey world is. 

Lee MJ Elias [56:51 - 56:54]: It's. You're not crazy. The hockey world is crazy. 

Mike Bonelli [56:54 - 57:00]: Right? So. But most people outside the hockey world just don't know that. They're like, oh, my God, that's that. That's that. You mean 5:00am Practices? 

Lee MJ Elias [57:01 - 57:02]: God, I wish there was a podcast about this. 

Mike Bonelli [57:03 - 57:50]: Yeah. So. So I think this is the way, like, you go in and you just show the business owner the rink that not only can you make more money, it is the right thing to do, by the way, but you're going to make more money and produce more customers for you. And ultimately it helps me because I'm going to grow the game. So it's just. To me, there's no. What gets into it is the. You. You said it a couple times earlier. It's the. The parents that seem to be the ones that drive this are the ones that have the kid that's elite. And the kid that's elite wants to become. And the parent, that parent wants to drive elite hockey more and more and more. And that person's going to leave anyway. If they're that good, they're leaving you at 16, going away. So, like, don't concentrate on that person. Concentrate on the person that's going to be with you, you know, for a lifetime. 

Lee MJ Elias [57:52 - 58:47]: The last question I have for you, Lindsay, we kind of danced around this one. We know since we started our Girls Play Hockey, we've gotten emails, a lot of emails actually. And some of those emails have said, hey, you've inspired me or this group of people to build a program or to grow this part of our program. Which, by the way, to the listening audience, we are beyond flattered by that. Our goal is to inform. But when we hear that we're having impact, it really motivates us beyond belief. You spoke earlier about the importance of female role models and female ambassadors in this game. It's actually how we started the episode. I know there are women listening to this and men that want to take a role in that, in that ambassadorship. How important is it that they step up? Now they have that thought, but how important is it that they step up and say, I'm going to do this and how do they do that? 

Lyndsey Fry [58:49 - 58:51]: Well, it's incredibly important. 

Lee MJ Elias [58:53 - 58:54]: Soft question and the episode. 

Lyndsey Fry [58:54 - 1:01:05]: So we need passionate people. We need passionate people who are willing to move the needle and willing to accept that it might be a very small shift of the needle, but that, like the phrase that I used when I was training for the Olympic team and what I still believe in wholeheartedly now is constant dripping hollows out of stone. You're not going to see for all the effort you put in, it might take a year, maybe even longer for you to see the impact of what you're doing, but eventually you're going to look back and it's, it will have made a difference. So I would just encourage people, like, if you're getting involved in girls hockey, buckle up because you're going to feel like you're banging your head against the wall a lot. Whether it's your state board, whether it's fighting to change policy, fighting with your rink, like you, it's a lot. But you will move the needle if you stick with it. I think as far as how to do it, that is so market dependent and it just really is based on what's available currently. But it can be something as simple as, hey, I'd love, you know, if you're a female, I would love to come out and volunteer at your learn to play. And for five minutes, can I just, like, have just the girls on the ice in the corner together as a group? With me, it could be, hey, I go to one of the boys associations and say, hey, I know you guys have 10 girls within your sport program. I really, really would love to try and take them to a girls tournament or something like that. I mean, it's being creative. It's thinking outside the box, and it's being willing to put in the work, even when the work is hard and doesn't feel like it's actually moving things forward. I promise you it is. And just don't get discouraged by the roadblocks, because a lot of people do, and that's what sets you back. You gotta just power right through them. And honestly, I view it as a way that, you know, that's what we want to teach our children is how to overcome adversity. So let's be the role models in that regard. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:01:06 - 1:01:39]: I love that answer. I think that's a recipe for success in a lot of different things. And just. Just to back you up, make it. You're making me think about this. Look, we're wildly successful as a podcast. We have a very large audience. We about to hit our fifth year, but. But people don't remember about our show, Mike, is that for the first year, just to echo you, the first year there was not an audience. It was very low. We. I'm not bragging, but I'm supporting what you're saying in one day now, we get more lessons than we would get in four or five months that first year. 

Lyndsey Fry [1:01:39 - 1:01:39]: Year. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:01:40 - 1:02:46]: Right. But after the first year, things started trending upward. We found that community. I mean, I'm just echoing it. Right. And the community grew and we supported them and we enabled people. Again, I'm talking about a podcast, but it just shows that this is a roadmap for success across multiple fronts. But we are talking about keeping girls and girls hockey. You know, I. I have a feeling, Lindsay, that this episode for the listener maybe didn't go the way that we thought it was going to go, but I'm really happy with the way it went because I think a lot of time we put the onus on the player. And I think with this topic, while there is a little bit. It's really not. It's the people behind the scenes. It's the people that want to lead, maybe the people who don't want to lead, and, you know, making sure that you have a sound model behind the whole thing. And I want to echo again that it's not just the right thing to do anymore. We are no longer at that point with girls and women's hockey. Like, this is hockey now, right? This is good for hockey. It's good for business, if you want to look at it like that. And there should be a place for everyone at this point, right? So I want to thank you for coming on our Girls Play Hockey Day. This is an awesome episode. You were an awesome guest, and, yeah, we'll have to do it again sometime. 

Lyndsey Fry [1:02:46 - 1:03:13]: All right, sounds good now. My pleasure, you guys. This is awesome. And, you know, I just will echo that like it's. It's the same thing with anything. Constant dripping holes out of stone. Like you. The people that are successful are the ones that can take the punches and outlast everybody else. And it's not an easy thing to do. But your guys podcast is a testament to that, as is, you know, our program here and so many other successful things all over the country. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:03:13 - 1:03:35]: So I love it. I love it. Make sure you check out Lindsay Fry. She knows what she's doing. If you don't know where to start, start with this podcast and look at her organizations and what she's accomplished in the game. And Lindsay, just in closing, just want to thank you for all you have done for the game as a whole, from being an Olympian all the way to your programs and just as an ambassador of hockey. It is well appreciated, my friend. 

Lyndsey Fry [1:03:35 - 1:03:37]: Thank you. I appreciate that. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:03:37 - 1:04:27]: All right, that's going to do it for this edition of our Girls Play Hockey. Remember, all the episode available is wherever podcast can be heard. If you have a comment, a question, if you want to get in contact with us accompanying this episode in the show notes, there's a link. If you tap that, you can text us directly. Or if you want to be old school, you can email us team at our Kids Play Hockey dot com. But obviously, no matter what you like to do, enjoy your hockey, enjoy your day, and we'll see you on the next episode of our Girls Play Hockey. Skate on everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now. If you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our Kids Play Hockey dot com. Also make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops atwhen hockey stops dot com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it, but thanks so much for listening to this edition of our Kids Play Hockey. And we'll see you on the next episode.