Navigating A Toxic Hockey Environment

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. If you listen to us weekly, we have a special uh uh thing going on here. All three of us are here for a change. It hasn't happened, it's the summertime, but uh, I'm happy that that Christy Cassiano Burns and Mike Benelli are with me here today. Honestly, it's not the same without you guys. I feel I feel like we got back to school together or the teens getting back together uh as we do in the back together. The band is back together. You got that beat. Um, and we got a great topic for all you today. We uh going in the mailbag today. We we get a lot of messages from uh people who listen to the show and uh got an intriguing one that I felt compelled to do. In fact, I waited until we had the full uh panel here to jump into it, and it's gonna be about toxic hockey environments. Um, uh, without giving out any names, obviously, we received an email from uh a parent whose son started playing a little bit later in life, which I can relate to because that's where I was at. And he's having a hard time uh fitting in or acclimating with the kids in his town um due to uh what he's describing as a toxic cock environment. And again, the the it's about a 12-year-old kind of a pee-wee level, sorry, U12, we can't use pee-wee anymore, um, type environment. Um, and there's a lot to unpack here. And I wanted to discuss this with the panel today. Um, and again, the situation is again, the uh the 12-year-old boy loves to play, he loves to practice, but he has a hard time uh getting along with his teammates. And it sounds like from the email we got that all the teammates have a hard time getting along with each other, massive egos, pretty much 12-year-old kids, right? Um, you know, some of the onuses on that too. You're extremely pubescent, right? Egos are high, lots of things going on in the body at that time. Um, but I wanted to start the episode just kind of sharing my own story because this this uh message really hit me hard because I started playing hockey later in life. Um, and I can relate to not fitting in. Um, some of it's bullying, but also some of the accountability was on me too. And now that I'm a parent myself, I can reflect on that time period and uh same situation. I love the game, I love to practice. I did a lot of off-ice training at a time when nobody else was, and I remember I used to get made fun of for that. Um, but at the end of the day, two things that were really important. One is that I love the game so much that getting teased or getting bullied, or uh even just gibber jabber in the locker room didn't phase me. In fact, it motivated me to even work harder. Um, and that ended up paying off much more later in life um in both hockey and in work. And the other side of it too is you know, look, it's tough when you're 12, 13, 14 to understand uh your self-worth. It's tough to understand how you compartmentalize things, you're still growing. Um, and I maybe I did let some of that stuff in a little bit too much and affect me too much because the accountability really is on me as a person to not put myself worth on what other people tell me. And I had two great parents at home that were really supportive of me and I always felt loved at home. We've talked about that a lot, and they were really aware of how I was feeling. But again, that's me, right? And and my journey was like that. I've said this on the show many times. I never played on the same team twice until I got to college because I was both excelling so fast and I was just being moved around. We didn't know what we were doing. Um, and there was some drawbacks to that too. I didn't really have a lot of friends uh in the space. Um, but again, I want to bring in uh obviously my two great friends, Mike Benelli and Christy Cashier Burns on this topic because uh, you know, they've been through it. Mike coaches at that level a lot, and I'm just kind of at the beginning, as we all know. But um, Kristin, let me throw it to you because I know, you know, again, your daughter, NCAA hockey player, and and and you said you had a lot of great experiences growing up, but you know, bullying is not limited to just one age group, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:58

No. Um, and I can relate a little bit with my son started late in hockey. He didn't start skating and trying out for hockey until he was eight, which in the hockey circles is late in life. Right. Kids were literally skating circles around him. Uh, we were very fortunate that the coach had a very welcoming environment, no matter what level you played or where you were at. He always made Joey feel a part of the team. And Joey took it upon himself to want to get better, very similar to you. Um, it just motivated him when the kids were faster and better. He wanted to play up to their level. So it was good for him because he he adapted and he saw that he had this potential in him to forge ahead when there are challenges and you kind of take it head on and you do the best you can. I I when I want to bring Mike into this, I would put a lot on the coaches at this point. Um, fostering that kind of environment and not seeing it, how do you not see that? How do you not see that the kid is not being welcomed? And shouldn't you take it upon yourself as a coach to do something about it, whether it be some team bonding, which can get the kids to see this uh kid that's getting bullied outside of the ice and outside of the pads and off the skates, he's probably good at other things, you know. Um, I I think that would help tremendously if the coaches took upon themselves to do something, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Absolutely. Well, look, this this is what I'll say, and Mike, I'll throw it to you in a minute, is that you know, I know there's a common theme at this age group of hey, boys will be boys or teens will be teens. And I'm gonna be very blunt. That's just not good enough if you're a coach uh or a leader of an organization. Um, that it might be good enough if you're a parent and you're watching and there's nothing you can do, but for those of you that have the control or the influence, uh, that's not good enough, right? Uh, because teens will be teens, right? And they can be pretty brutal to each other. And Christy, you made a great suggestion. Team building, which is obviously something that I'm very passionate about and something that's growing in organizations, it's still kind of in its infancy, um, is incredibly important. There should be, in my opinion, at least, at least once a week a team building activity on or off the ice that has nothing to do with skill development or tactics or hockey, right? Just where these kids have to work together. Um, and people go, well, they're making fun of each other, they're doing this. If you do it every week, it starts to have an effect.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

If you do it once at the back, they build chemistry, which you cannot match that on the ice. You know when kids get along on the ice and they have chemistry. And that doesn't always happen in the routine drills that you do every week. A lot of it can happen off the ice. Well, I'd say most of it happens off the ice, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:56

I think most of it does. Talent talent is always a wonderful thing to have. But if you want to build real chemistry and team bonding, it's the off-ice, it's the team building, it's the messages, it's the understanding what is accountability, what is endurance, what is teamwork. You know, we just assume that people know what these things mean. And I think that's the problem, is that, you know, and I look for those of you listening right now, there's a great exercise you can do, just to prove my point. Uh, and you can pause this at each one of those. Try and define the word trust without using trust in the definition. How often have you done that? Define the word accountability right now in your mind, define the word adversity. If these definitions don't pop in your mind, or better, you take a few minutes to think about them. Think about what that must be like for a 12-year-old who has no idea what's going on with their body, no idea what's going on, you know, and and everyone's at each other. It's a it's a dog pit in a lot of ways, right? Um, re-uh instituting these messages, making sure that they hear them every single week, every week, not every season, is instrumental. And yes, they are still gonna jibber jab at each other, but that's okay because when they get on the ice, they understand, right? And again, I'm gonna say this again because in this email, the parent kind of alluded to that hey, we're doing the best we can. Um, or we we we all the parents and the coaches don't like this, but it's still happening. And I have to say this, I don't think people are doing enough if that's the case. If the kids are really still at each other's throat, yeah, it's not enough, right? Um, now with that said, you're gonna run into coaches.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, and it might be a good idea. You gotta have zero tolerance, and the kids need to understand what that means. Zero tolerance of that. You if you continue, you're off the team. That's bottom line.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Yeah, we don't have enough of that today, Christy. Look like in all the podcasts I do, which are vast. Uh, one of the one of the trends we're seeing is that there's too much pleasing for kids and not enough. I don't want to say punishing, but there's not enough putting the hammer down. No, yeah, discipline is the right word. You're absolutely right. Uh we've we've let that go too much. Uh Mike, let me bring you in too. Because again, you're you're you deal with this more than us. And and I'm the one talking a lot because I've had a coffee this morning. But ladies and gentlemen, I bring to the table Michael the jelly.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

No, it's just a very hard, thank you, but it's a very hard um subject, only because we've only covered this uh, you know, 74 times. And I think I think it's it's it's it is it comes down to what are the core competencies and beliefs and values that you join that an organization presents that they that they espouse. Right. So if you're joining an organization that doesn't have program-wide collaboration, if you're joining a program that doesn't have a mission statement, if you're joining a program that doesn't have a core understanding of you know what their true beliefs are internally, you can never get to the point where you can then have consequences and discipline and standards. You just can't do it. I mean, because and in this world that we live in right now, and not everywhere, there's a lot of I I work with great pro I mean, I get calls from from programs all the time that to to work with them. And I'm like, well, you don't need me, you're doing great. I get you got to see the 10 other programs I'm working with. They're right of of you know a dumpster fire. So when you look, when you, you know, and and and it's a favorite word, by the way. And it just it just comes to the point where you're like, well, you know, what are what why did you join the organization? Number one, as I would ask. And I'm I'm telling you, if they said, Well, these things, I heard this about this, this, this, and why don't you join there? Well, because they're the best, they're the best team. I said, Well, are they the best team? Are they the best team for your child and your family? Then then you be the part of the change that says, I'm not leaving, I'm gonna be where I'm at, and I'm 12, I'm 11, I'm 10. You can make the change within your organization. Is it easy? It's not easy. That's why people go from program to program to program.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Because it's a lot easier just to say, those people are the problem, and I'm gonna go somewhere else where I don't think is a problem. And then most of the time, it's it's listen, it's just it's it's it's hard to find uh you know that that great organization that aligns with all your values if you don't know their values.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

So let me let me jump in here real quick because this is I I need to make sure I say this because there's gonna be parents that come back to this, Mike, because this person lives in a region where it's regionalized that club is not the leading uh source of hockey, it's done by town, right? Like I said, I don't want to give up too much here. Um, there's gonna be parents that listen to this and go, that's that's great, Mike. I agree with you, but there's no chance my organization is gonna change and I can't move. Now, now, this is how I'm gonna break down this episode because there's four different layers to this, right? There's onus on the kids. I wrote this down parents, coaches, and the organization. Now, uh, Mike and I have done a great um episode about organizations and how they can organize. So that's an episode we suggest you send to your team or organization, get them to take a look at that. Um, I really want to jump into the kids and the parents first because what if you can't switch teams? Or what if it's a situation where you're kind of with the team that you're with and you can't change, and that's where you're at. So this is the word I want to bring up to everybody listening in that situation. This is an opportunity, it's a major opportunity for you and your child to learn and grow and face adversity and understand some life lessons here. By far, the greatest thing that I took from hockey at this time period of my life when it was visceral and you know, I was kind of on my own and training every day and didn't have a lot of friends. I found a work ethic I didn't know I had. I found the ability to deal with adversity like I didn't know I could. All right, getting teased a lot. Let's be perfectly honest, the real world is brutal. It's brutal and unforgiving. The teasing that you get at 12, 13, 14, beyond and before prepares you for real life. So I think there's a key message here as a parent well to bring to your child. If it doesn't kill you, yeah, let me get into that. Let me get into that.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Not everybody has thick skin, right? Well, not everybody has thick, admitted you are sensitive. So there's the mental health too that you got to watch out for.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Well, and this is the key. Look, not everybody has two parents at home. I am gonna dive into that, right? Um, I was fortunate that I had parents and and people that were telling me, listen, this is adversity, and you got to push through. And what matters is what you think of yourself, and what matters is how you you you deal with this and how you respond to it. I know it hurts, but all of that growing up gave me a really thick skin and a hard shell when I got out of high school into college and into the real world. Now, I'm again, I had two parents at home who were very loving and very caring. Not everybody has that, right? So if you're a kid listening to this episode, I'm telling you. All right. And if you're a parent listening to this episode, I'm telling you to tell your kids this, all right. Because the the this the adversity they're gonna face after high school and college is far worse than getting teased at 12 years old. And I'm not, I am not trying to downplay that it hurts at 12, but this is your opportunity to teach your child, or if you are a player, to take that and understand I need to take this, realize that my self-worth and what I think of myself is more important than what anybody else does. Now, the danger we run into, and this is what Mike is alluding to, is if we coddle our kids and say it's okay, don't you know, don't listen, it's okay, or we move them from team to team to team to team. Again, I moved from team to team because of a skill-based situation, not because I hated the kids I was playing with. But if we continue to shield our kids from adversity, when they get out of high school, they get out of college, they cannot handle adversity. And this is where, and this is getting real serious, this is where suicide and extreme depression starts to play into it. I have heard stories of young people, straight A students, high athletes, get to college, they get a C, and they kill themselves because they've never had to deal with that type of adversity and they're afraid of uh completely laying down their family. It's not realistic. There's no perfect parents, there's no perfect kids, there's no perfect people. Right. So my advice is that for any player or parent, any adversity you're experiencing, teasing, bullying, and again, every situation is different. It is an opportunity for you to take that in, to compartmentalize it, understand it, understand what you're feeling, why you're feeling that way, and know that you are worth what you think you're worth, not what other people say you're worth. And again, in the real world, you're gonna face this. Everyone listening to this faces this as an adult, all of us. All right, we just kind of learn how to deal with it after a while. And some of us don't. The messages in your head. So especially, Mike, and I'm gonna throw this back to you and Christy here, especially at 12 years old, where you are starting to become a young adult, right? The messages you give your children at this time are life-changing. Right. And it's okay to say it's tough, it hurts. I know we need to toughen up, we need to take this in, and we need to work even harder. In a minute, I'll let you two talk. I'm gonna tell you guys a story on the other side of this that that happened to me recently that blew my mind away about what some of these players I played with actually thought of me and did later on in life. And I didn't even realize it. But let's throw it back to you because I want to stay on the serious note. This is kind of the kids and parents. We're not talking about coaches and organizations just yet. But do you guys agree? Do you have other thoughts on this? I mean, I think it's an opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

No, that well said, yes, it is an opportunity. Yeah, but also I think you know, if it gets to the point where coaches aren't listening, parents are still being jerks about it. Is it really a good environment for your kid? I to be honest with you, I would probably shop around, you know, and might have to travel a little a little farther to find an environment that's healthy for my kid, where my kid's gonna learn and want to progress. If you get to the point where, you know, they're just getting beat up too badly and they're not taking the initiative and they're not getting better and they feel like they're getting beaten bad all the time. No, time out. It's not worth it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

It's and in the email, Christy, actually, you bring up a great point. In the email, uh, this person said that people choose just to leave the sport, which is devastating. They they're leaving the sport for other sports with better environments. Now, and again, this is that is where we will tie in coaches and organizations because if it's so bad that you're leaving the sport, that's that's not on the kid of the parent at that point, that's on the team.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Right, but but somebody's hiring to see that there's other people hiring these parents and these these these coaches, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:21

So, I mean, can it really be if you have 18 kids on the team and there's two or three parents that are upset and their kids, I mean, uh is it maybe is the kid getting enough ice time? Is the kid doing the work that he needs to put in? Is is the team, you know, in a place where they're just doing a lot of things that you know, I I've seen team, you know, I've I've had parents call me up. Oh, my kid gets, you know, he's an outcast. He doesn't did this, they don't, they don't include him here. The coach doesn't play him. Oh, so what's your situation? Oh, well, I mean, he comes to practice once a week, he misses three a week. Um, but you know, we paid and we we expect to be there and play for the team. Like so, well, that you're not really on the team then. Like, like I just want to know the whole picture, right? And you know, and back, you know, and you know, just only a couple of years ago, you could just say, well, tell the kid to go punch somebody in the nose. You want to stand up for yourself, do that, right? You can't do that anymore. You can't do that anymore. I get I guess you can't do that anymore. But that's I mean, me, I'm like, punch the kid in the lips. Listen, you know, I I just think it's a different world. And and I don't know if it, I personally don't even know if it's better or worse. I just because I think what it does is it puts people in a situation where they're keyboard warriors and they could be tougher, you know, on other coaches. Because I listen, I'm probably sensitive to this because I know what I do as a coach and I know what I do in the locker room, I know what I do in team building exercise. I'm very aware of what other kids are doing to other kids and what parents are doing to other parents. And yet still, yeah, you have you have people that will find ways to say this isn't working for me. And I get that. I said, I understand. I mean, I go, listen, in in my line of work and what I've been doing, you know, the last bunch of years, I go out of my way to make sure that when I have a great experience at a business, I probably go out of my way to let that business know how great it was, only because you just never hear right anything good. Only hear the negative. I'm like, I'm like, wow, that was unbelievable. Like I did that event, and this was this person did an unbelievable job. They're like, well, yeah, thank you, but that's just what we do. I go, yeah, but you you definitely would hear it if I if you didn't do a good job. I can tell you that right now, right? So I think in in a lot of these cases, and let let's just let's just make believe every region you couldn't move, right? No matter where you're at. You know, every region you join a team because it does it, it is because in baseball and lacrosse and other sports, it is uh a fact that if you're from that town, you play on that town's team. So what do you do? What do you do as a parent? What do you do as a kid at 12 years old? Well, you know, there's so many other strategies you can do as a parent and maybe look and be in perspective a little bit and say, Well, am I doing what I can to put my son or daughter in a good cultural situation too? Like, am I including them in? I hate to use the word play dates because I hate that, but am I am I including them in opportunity to be with their teammates? Am I including them in am I, you know, the does practice end and my kid gets in the car and he goes home and he never speaks to another human being again? There's a what you wonder why other families are closer and more connected, because maybe they stay at the park or at the rink or in the parking lot for another two hours building relationships with each other. But we don't know that, you know, we don't know, you know, where is the where are you doing as a family, the relationship building to make sure that your son or daughter is in the mix. You can't just magically have a have a mission statement and a cultural workshop and think that 18 families are gonna be standing around the fire holding hands, singing, you know, yeah, kumbaya, or uh, or you know, uh and even if they were, they wouldn't all get along.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Like that that's the truth of that.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Right. And and and we and we listen, we'll accept that on team sports or any any activity, everybody's not gonna agree, thank God. But at the same time, what are you doing to foster your relationship with the with the team? Or are you just you know, putting the putting the hoodie over your head and leaving the rink? So I I just think it's it's our job as parents too to make sure that we're putting our kids in great cultural situations where they can like because it because you you like your the light bulb went off and you said it never you don't have time to build teams on the ice, you're practicing.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Yeah, you're you're still developing.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

You're you're this is not the time where hey, you got to support Johnny because he can't catch a pass. Well, Johnny can't catch a pass because he stinks. Like I he doesn't practice. I don't like him. I don't want to pass to him. That's what happens to 12-year-old boys. I don't like him. That's why you're not gonna pass to him because you don't like him. Well, why don't you like him? Well, he's never a product, he's never he he comes in late, he leaves early, he's never been to any parties we've ever had, he's never been to the park with us. You know him, he doesn't hang out, and that's our fault as parents if you're not. That's what teams are. Teams, you talk to any professional athlete, any anybody that's played at a high level out uh uh outside of 12U, high school, prep school, college, pro, number one thing they miss is the locker room. Number one, it's it's so it's it's so far above anything else. They miss the ability to be with the Why people don't quit sports, right? Right? Because they they the professionals don't leave when they should because they love going to the rink and being in the locker room with their teammates. Well, you got to create that with your kids.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

And what's the number one source of depression after leaving pro hockey? Not being in a community. Not belonging, not belonging. You don't know what you're doing. You don't know what you're it's not just hockey, by the way. That's that's military transition, that's any transition.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Anything anything you're in is regimented, right? You get up in the morning, you eat, you you have your nutrition shake, you go work out, you do video, you go to practice, you meet with your coaches, you have dinner with your teammates, you do your studying, you go home, go to bed, and then they wake you up the next morning and do the same thing. That regimented lifestyle, but you're but but when you're with your teammates and you're with you can do that even at the youth level. The youth level is very you know structured and regimented. Every Monday we have skills, every Wednesday we have practice, every Friday. But if you're not a part of that and you exclude your child from these the from these things and these opportunities to advance within the structure of the team, then you're robbing them the opportunity to be on that team.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

This is what I can say to you. As I said, I just obviously I do team building with multiple age levels. All right. When I've said this before, we just did it with my eight you team this past year, and something incredible happened, right? Um, I told you how bonded they were at incredible. And you know what? The kids who did not show up regulated regularly to that team building, it showed. All right, they had a little chip on their shoulder on the team, or the players kind of looked at them a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

But the ones the ones that need the team building the most are the ones that don't come. I always what the hell's going on here?

SPEAKER_02 24:46

You are the one that needs it the most. They scoff at team building like we don't need this, right? I've seen that, or it's not that important. And and look, look, I don't judge, right? If that's if that's someone's attitude, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

You should judge, you should judge them.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

I'm not I'm not from uh New England, Mike. So um, but no, look at everybody. You judge everybody. Look, this is what I'll tell you guys is that um, you know, a couple quick things, right? I saw some of those players um yesterday. My son is playing summer league, might league, and uh I saw some of the kids moving the squirt. One of the parents hugged me, kid came right up to me at the biggest smile, and and my son and this kid got way, it was so great to see you. Uh, it was really wonderful, right? And it was a testament of wow, this really had an impact. These kids talked on uh Facebook Messenger for weeks, maybe months after the season ended. Um, and it I'm telling you, it's a tribute to everybody, the coaching staff, the things we did on the ice, but they were really bonded. It's something you need to nurture. I want to dive into this real quick. Um, I want to give some tips to parents or some perspective to parents here because I think it's important uh that we do that. We always try and give some advice. Here's a really important one. All right, the kid is teasing your kid. This is to the parents. A kid is teasing your kid. How are you responding to that? Where does your focus go? If your focus immediately goes to the other kid, the kid teasing your kid, my advice is not to do that. Spend as little time on the other kid as possible, mainly because you have no control over that kid, right? Don't say things like that kid's an idiot, he's stupid, his parents are stupid. You're teaching your kid the wrong message at that point. Even if you think that. I'm not saying don't think that. I didn't say that. All right, keep your thoughts to yourself, right? All right. This is an opportunity for you as a parent to teach your kid something too. Hey, listen, let's not focus on him or her, let's focus on you. Parents, listen, question for your kid. How does it make you feel when you're teased? You're just gonna assume that you think they know that. Get them to get in touch with that. It hurts when I get teased. I don't like the way it feels inside. It makes my confidence go down. You can you can lead your kids a little bit. Does it make you feel like you're bad? Does it make you feel like you're worthless? Keep the focus on your kid. Yeah, dad, yeah, it does. Or maybe go, I don't want to talk about it. Whatever their answer is, okay. That's okay. Tell your kid, I just want you to know I love you and what you think of you really matters. And the only people you really need to worry about are what you think of you and maybe your family, all right, your immediate family, because we all have that cousin that hates you too. Right? That's the opportunity to teach your kid, hey, don't worry about what they say about you. And then here's another thing you can say. Well, Johnny said that I suck at at at catching passes. Well, okay. Do you do you agree with that? Well, yeah, I'm not great at it. Keep turning it. Well, what can we do to get you better at that? Well, if I practice more, now it's a totally different conversation. It's not even about Johnny, right? Now it's about what your kid can do and the accountability on your kid. Here's a here's another one, parents. You know, none of us want our kids to feel pain. All right, but this is something I've learned. When I have four or five people come up to me and go, hey, Lee, you know, you're doing this wrong. Hey, Lee, you're doing this wrong. Or Lee, I don't like the way you do this. When four or five people tell me the same thing, I now know this. I learned this when I was younger. Wow, five people are telling me this. Maybe I really should pay attention. I have to move the ego aside. All right. Hey, Lee, you talk too much. I've been hearing that since I was born. All right. Hence why I'm a podcast. Anyway, the point is this it's an opportunity. If you spend all your time on the other kid, you are teaching your kid to care more about what other people think of them than themselves. Right. And I cannot stress this enough. Your kid's understanding of self-worth and value, I'm not talking ego, is insanely important. Moving on. That has nothing to do with the time and place you live in. That has everything to do with just being people. Right now, reverting this back, Christy, you'll like this, Mike. You like this. All right. I got um teased horrendously as a kid. And again, I was a victim for a long time. I I woe is me all the time until I realized that you know, I had to internalize this differently. I have to stop worrying about what other people think about me and worry about what I think about myself. Well, that clicked in my brain, my whole life changed. All right, and I was, I was taking it all in. I was a victim. I almost wanted to identify through that misery. This is when I was young, you know, nine, 10 years old. And when I realized, like, I don't need to live that way, right? And what I tell myself is what matters, everything changed. That's a process I'm still working on to this day. All right. Now, again, I loved the game. I practiced, I was in my garage every night practicing. I had I had that drive. Okay. Not everybody has that. That's absolutely fine. Number one, if your kid has that drive, I want you to tell your kid to double down, triple down on that drive. That's something special. Not everybody gets a passion in their life. I've got two. I got hockey, broadcasting, and obviously my family comes first. But I'm blessed with that. I triple down on those things. Here's the cool story. I was uh speaking with a uh a bantam team. I'm sorry, a U whatever 15, U14 team. I can't give those names. 14U, 14. 14U. Thank you. I'll get them eventually, right? Someone's gonna yell at me. I was speaking to a 14U team. Um, and I played with their coach when we were younger, and he introduced me this way. I I had no idea he was gonna do this, and I uh I didn't know this. He goes, he goes, This guy Lee. I played with him, and he goes, When we played together, he had all these office training things that no one had because the off-ice training wasn't a thing he would do with these exercises and all these things before games. He had these boards, and then he says this, he goes, Everyone would make fun of him, everyone made fun of Lee for doing that. And then he goes, But here's the funny part he was one of the worst players when he showed up, and by the end of the season, he was the best player on the team, and we were all doing everything that he was doing. Now, I had to say this that that made me feel unbelievably good because I didn't even know they were teasing me, which was kind of funny. That's how focused I was on what I was doing. But uh the message here was this I wasn't focused on impressing my teammates, I was focused on becoming the best hockey player I can. I was always nice to everybody, and in turn, you know, they saw the results and started to turn and go if it's getting him better, I better start doing. Okay, not every team's gonna experience that, and I understand that. But the point was A, I didn't care what they were thinking, B, is that it it improved me so much that they started doing it. C, apparently, so much that this kid, this kid, not a kid, this this grown man who I played with called me back to speak to his team. So, my point with the story is you never know where this stuff is gonna pay off later on. The other thing he said, which was funny, he goes, he goes, So this guy taught us two things. One was how to train off the ice, and two, I love Metallica now because of him. Because apparently, apparently I influenced him that way. It was the 90s. Um, yeah, and actually, Metallica is very popular again now because of Stranger Things, apparently, that show that everybody loves that I haven't seen yet. Uh, that our producer Caitlin's nodding her head at right now behind the scenes. Anyway, the point is you're on your path, you're on your journey. Focus on you. All right. Know that people are gonna tease you. People still tease me to this day. I don't, I don't care, right? I learned that at 12 that my truth, my hockey, my way of doing this is all that matters. I gotta stress this one more time. I had two parents that really loved me, and it was really obvious. I always felt safe going home. They didn't focus on the other kids, they focused on me, and not in a uh soft way. My dad and mom had no problem calling me out when I was being a little extra about things. You know, Jimmy said this and it really hurt me. And you know, yeah, well, get over it. All right, do you agree with that? Get over it.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, I mean, we've said the same things. Yeah, we've said the same things to our kids. Um, yeah, focus on yourself. Don't worry what those other kids are saying. Get better, you know, work harder, uh, work smarter, you know, figure out what you need to do to improve yourself, and the respect will come, right? Especially if you have a good work ethic.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

My dad never told me I was good if I was playing bad, ever. If I had a bad game, I was told.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

And it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Of course. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

I was, but but I'll tell you what, I used to fight my dad on that a little bit. Uh, I was one of those kids if he's like, You could have done this, but well, well, this and that and this and that. You know, like I was like that. I remember he used to say, like, you know, I'm just telling you what you can work on. And the thing is, like most things, parents, um, it took sometimes years for me to kind of have that hit me of like, you know, he's right, I am fighting him on everything. It took years for me to get to some of that. But I'll tell you what. Um, he was really good about hey, you know what, you need to work on this. Why don't we do a clinic about this? Or why don't we go in the garage? I've told this story on the show many times. Uh I used to want him to tell me to practice. Well, you told you told me you want me to work on my shot. He goes, No, you want to work on your shot. He goes, if you want to do it, I won't have to tell you. You'll just do it. Man, I clicked that day. I never asked again. I just did it. So, again, just from a parent-kid point of view or a kid point of view, because I want to move on to coaches too. And and and and obviously, if you guys have other thoughts on this, the message is how you respond as a parent to that adversity is really, really important. How you teach your kids to deal with adversity. If you focus on the other kid, if you focus on the other kids, your son or daughter will do that too, and they will do that for the rest of their lives. You can only control what you control. Don't worry about the rest of it, even if it hurts, you can't control what other kids are doing. You can control A, your effort, you control can control how you emotionally respond to that most of the time, right? Not everybody is lucky enough to have that, and you can control basically what you put in your body, and that's about it. So keep the control there. Yes, kids are gonna tease you. Yeah, it hurts. You make the choice whether or not it bothers you, right? That's the cold, hard truth. All right, and it's not easy, it takes years of practice. Yeah, every once in a while, someone will still say something to me. It's like, ah, oh, that hurt. That was a good one. All right, and yeah, I'll mull over it for a day and then I kind of move on. Like, hey, I don't have control of this. What am I doing? I'm gonna allow them to affect me, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:33

This is and I think I think your point too is that it's a learned behavior, it's not something that a 12-year-old is expected to know inherently. They just it's something you as a parent, it's the same thing as a I love these coaches that that tell the kids you you can't control this, you can't control like you, you know, don't if you're screaming and yelling at the ref, then you're influencing the ref. Like to me, it's like, and then you know, for and then you hear from the kids you you're every day, right? Oh, those refs. If we didn't have those refs, we I said no, it has nothing to do with the refs. If you wouldn't have taken five penalties in the in the first period for tripping it, the ref just calls the penalties, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:07

They're doing the best they can, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Or you know, to your point about passing, you know, like and I I miss that part. I miss the, you know, usually it's like, well, they sort of can't pass. I go, well, you do, you suck at passing. So, you know, so it's not not like, well, what do you think? I'm like, Well, you I'm telling you what I think. I'm a coach and you suck at passing. You're not good, so so don't take a pass. But I think I I think uh it just again, it's it's one, it's like anything else, it's a learned process. And you know, if you're a parent of a of an eight, nine, and ten-year-old too, you know, you can the nice thing about being a mature parent and smarter than your eight-year-old is that you can manipulate them early in life to give them adversity before they even actually get it. You can teach them adversity by just do like you could before it really affects them. You know, you could get done, you could be proactive and saying, Hey, did you go in to the locker room and introduce yourself to the new kid? Right, Mike, that's a great point. Like, did you make sure you told your teammate, like, like, did you tell your teammate what a great practice he had today? Imagine an eight-year-old telling another kid, like, I gotta tell you, you you had an unbelievable practice today without being like without being like told to do that, like just inherently learning to do that.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Do you shake the ref's hand after the game? That's a big one for me.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

You go say thank you to the the the the guy, the people, the the two dads and moms that just coached your practice in 95 degree weather out on the field. Did you make them go thank them? Like, if you don't do those kind of things when kids are eight and nine and ten, what do you think they're gonna be like at 12 or 13 years old?

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Mike, it's a great point. And I'll I'll tell you what, and I I'm kind of inadvertently patting myself on the back here, but I made sure, Logan, my son, every game, thank the refs, thank your coach every practice, every time. I don't care what that's a learned behavior from most people. Right. I well, here's the thing I I didn't even think about that, you know. I'm I'm teaching them to do that because I'm like, oh, this is the moral thing to do, but you're right, it's teaching something for the future. I didn't even think about it. And you know, not not every not everybody does that. Actually, most people don't, to be fair, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

No, they're like that that practice sucked, but Ellie didn't know what he was doing today. Let's get the hell out of it.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Well, and look, I'll take it a step further. How about this, right? Like, because this is gonna happen too. Um, why they're gonna you're gonna do this. Happened to me one time. All right, I remember this. I always shook hands, right? I'll I'll I'll got another story you just remind me of. My dad loves this story, tells me this all the time. When I was in high school, um, I my senior year, I've said this on the show, I tore my soul my shoulder horrendously and was out for my senior year. And there was a kid in the league who was unbelievable. He's getting 10 points a game every game. Like that's how good he was. All right, and he was going to NCAA and we played against him. And I remember I was just kind of like helping on the bench. I shook his hand after the game, like I went out of my way. I said, Hey, really, good luck to you. Right. I was 18 years old, and I remember we went back in the locker room and I had a couple teams like, Why'd you shake his hand? Why did you shake his hand? Like they thought I was wrong, and I remember now again. This was a little later. I said, Well, he's really good, and I want to wish him the best of luck, man. That's why I did it. I was confident enough at that point to say that. When you're eight or 12, why'd you shake the ref's hand? He sucked today. And you know what? Teach your kid right the message. You know what? Because it's the right thing to do. They're volunteering their time, but he sucked today. Yeah, I don't really care. All right, he's volunteering his time. That kid's gonna be a leader in the future, all right. Parents, even if everyone's making fun of him, that kid's gonna be a leader. The straight A student that doesn't face adversity, this has scientifically been proven, by the way. They're not the ones that succeed later in life. They end up working for the people that get the B's and the C's.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Well, the more important thing, and the more important thing in our context, too, is it doesn't make doesn't necessarily have anything to do with them being a good hockey player. Like who they personally, you know what? That person's that maybe that person's never ever gonna play after 15 years old. But you know what? They're good, damn right. They're gonna be a good, they're gonna know what a good person is. And I think again, it's not our job as coaches to do that. Like, I I love I I I love what I my your team, you know, you got a couple of kids on a team that are just really just not, you know, you know, they're really rude and obnoxious. I'm like, I I don't live with them. They they come to the rink and they can they leave, they come and leave. Now I can influence kind of where they are within the scheme of what I do, but you know, when they're at IGA on on and they and they knock over some old lady's cart and run by her for you know a bag of Oreos, I said, I can't do anything about that kid. That's him. That is not me. Like it has nothing to do with me.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

When he comes to the rink for you, you can say, that's not acceptable.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

You have your hour, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Right, but but if you're not a jerk outside, but when you come in my arena, when you're on my ice tie, that's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Now, if I pick that kid because he's a jerk, maybe that's more of a reflection on me, right? But if I if I go out and seek that kid and say, like then, we all say that as coaches, like, oh, I love that kid. Look, like we we see it now. We just saw it in the NHL draft. Like, uh as much as people say they're picking people for character, well, sometimes character doesn't mean much if you can score, right? Yeah, a lot, a lot of character people can go one way or another if you're really, really good. And I'm like, well, yeah, but that's the one percentile of of our universe. What about the rest of the people who just have to be all good? Like, just have to be good people. Those are the people that are going to be living, just your point, Lee, in the world that we are living in. Right. Not not not looking for not on the ice, ready to carve somebody's eyes out. That's a that's that that's a whole nother level of of of of a human being doing something that are they're gladiators, they're robots, they're they're they're freaks of nature. What we're trying to do is have people that are that are in the in the in the regular world.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

It's also their job at the pro level. You know, one of the things in this email, yeah, what that that was said that you know it was this is actually a good thing he brought up. He says, Well, everybody on this every 12-year-old this kid, every 12-year-old kid on this team thinks of going to the NHL. Hey, great, good, great, that's good for 12 years old. Okay. Um, we've said this before on the show. You don't have to agree with a kid's dream, but you have to you have to support the right to have a dream. I I hate, I mean that. I viscerally don't like it when coaches or organizations say none of you are really going to the NHL. So don't think I just can't stand it. Don't tell a kid that his dream's not possible, right? Yes, it is extremely unlikely that that child will go to the NHL. Don't take their ability to dream away from them. Be realistic. Well, you want to make the NHL, you're gonna have to work really hard, you're gonna have to be relentless, you're gonna have to be a good person. I listened to this great podcast. Our kids play hockey. They say you have to be a good person at that level, you know, you got to care about the game. Use that parents as an ability because your kids are gonna have other dreams. You don't want to tell them not to shoot for it. I I've seen so many, so many people get out of school, high school, college, and they they last two years trying to do what they want to do, and then they give up. There's no point. They told me there was no point. All right, I'm so blessed. I'm gonna keep going for my dreams. I still have dreams, all right. I'm I'm going for them. All right, but I was taught that, I was supported with that. All right. And no, I don't accomplish all I didn't make the NHL as a player, but I did make it as an executive. That's not the point. All right. The point is this don't take that away from your kid. Number one. Number two, if your kids have an ego about making the NHL, manage it. I just said that. Like, you know what I mean? And and Mike, you said this too. It's all development. Every league under the NHL is a development league from 12 up as a person, you're developing people, not just hockey players. I can't stress this enough. All right, the value of youth hockey, the true value is you're creating a better person because they've played sport, it's not just limited to hockey. And should your child be gifted with talent that is beyond belief or an effort level that's beyond belief, nurture it? It's a wonderful thing, but not everyone's gonna have that. So if the other kids on the team think they go in the NHL, that's great for them. All right, if it gives them an ego, they're 12. All right. What is your kid control within that situation? That's really what's important. You know, another thing, too, let's just talk about this from a societal level. Shane Wright was not picked first overall, he went fourth overall to the Kraken. I was astonished at how the media, for those of you who didn't watch the NHL draft, this guy was supposed to be picked, but using quotations, number one. He dropped a fourth. And when he was um um put on stage, he kind of stared out in the crowd, kind of with a menacing stare. And I was blown away. The media goes, he's staring at the Montreal Canadians, they're not taking him number one. He's a villain. How quick we were to turn this kid, kid, into a villain because he looked into the crowd with what I can just probably guess is just his resting face, right? And they turned it into this big evil, he's staring down Montreal. And I'm thinking to myself, this kid has just been drafted, he has no idea where he is right now. You think and and he and obviously came out later and said, I wasn't looking at anyone, I was just I just got drafted. And you know, it's a he went from first to first. I was amazed how quickly we had to turn someone into a villain. That's the society we're living in, right? We they wanted it to be controversial for no reason, right? Equate this back to our topic. Well, that that kid teased my kid, right? Evil. Like I'm not saying you're saying that, parents, all right. If I'm Shane right now, and he's and this is what he'll do because he's a great leader, right? You know, I'm focused on me, I'm focused on making the the the Seattle crack, and I just got drafted to DNHL, right? The whole society was focused on everything but you, we can't keep doing this, right? Your goal, and I'm gonna merge this into coaches real quick. Your goal as a coach for the time that you have, Mike, you made a great point. The time that you have with these kids, bring them together, take the extra 20 minutes, and yes, the parents are gonna fight you on this at the beginning of the season. No, it is mandatory 20 minutes, unless you have to be somewhere else, and you gotta prove it. We're gonna do team building for 20 minutes. That 20 minutes will set your kids up for 20 years if you do it right. I will say that, and I believe that. All right. I'm a product of that. I try and produce that, and I'll tell you what uh this past season, when a few of the players said my favorite part of the season was the team building, that takes nothing away from the games and the coaching staff that touched my heart. When I see The kids I coached last year and they know me. I'm not someone they're running away from because they're young, like, I don't want to see that. They come up to me, they hug me. That's worth all of it. Right. And again, no, a 12-year-old is probably not gonna hug you. It's okay. It's okay, it's all part of the life. All right, I'm I'm getting on a soapbox now, but I do want to just before we end the episode talk about coaches, okay? Um whether you were a volunteer first year coach or a triple star, all-star, select five-tiered superstar superhuman coach like Mike Benelli. If you're in anywhere in that range, Mike, Mike is a fantastic coach. I tease you. All right. Uh this is your opportunity to mold these kids. I don't care if you were tapped on a volunteer. It's your responsibility as a coach to mold the kids. That's part of the job. Right. And if you don't know how to do it, there are books about this. Take the extra 20 minutes a night just to read about it. I promise you it'll be fulfilling. But do not come home, coaches or parents, and say, Well, we're all doing everything we can. Because I'll tell you what, I do everything I can, it's still not enough. I really do.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

And find and find people within your organization that want to embrace that and and and delegate it too, if you need to. Like if you're just not that person, you're like, listen, I I want to do this. I mean, because most 95% of us are getting out of our car, jumping on the ice, and to and teaching our kids. We don't have all day to look at team building exercises and like, oh, you know, if I, you know, and and most of the time I get to the rink and I'm dealing with putting this fire out, wondering what rink I'm on, wondering where the pucks are, wondering how cones. So then just delegate it out. Make make sure you have a a mission and a goal to get a parent, somebody else, assistant coach, if it's you, great, then delegate the other duties out. But just know that this is a really important piece of, I think all of us in in our in our sport world, right? Whatever sport you're in, has to look that you everything, there's so much more that goes on outside the lines of the actual plane. And if you can, yeah, so I went to a coaching conference this past weekend, and every NHL coach that spoke, not one talked about how great their X's and O's were. Everyone, two, to every single coach, there had to be 15 different NHL coaches speaking, that talked about your ability to connect with the player and have a relationship with the player so that then you could teach what you're trying to teach. And none of and at the youth sports level, which is crazy to me, because I do try to step back from it and try to understand it. Well, I'm immersed in this like every day. Like to me, it's like second nature because I just assume like, why wouldn't you all know this? And they don't know it because you just don't, you're not living it every day. You're just like, Well, isn't the most important thing I do is to go out and have a good practice plan? No, that's just that's gravy. The most important thing you do is connect with your teammate, your your your your your players, and then get them to connect with each other, right? And that's where that's where uh you know um the the uh Colorado Avalanche coach talked and he well, what's the difference between last year and this year? It's the same team, basically, you know, other than you know, a couple of players, right? But it's the same, it was the mindset, it was the ability for the players to believe in each other and for the coaching staff to to reflect and say, Well, did we give them enough belief in how we felt about them? Had nothing to do with it, didn't change strategy, didn't change how they're gonna play, didn't change their system. It was all about uh belief. And we don't we don't in this sport culture that we're into youth level, don't do enough to teach that aspect of why we're coaching over uh can this coach run a good power play? And and and I think that's that's on us. It's on it's on organizations and it's on you as a coach. If you get into this this profession, volunteer, side gig, getting paid, whatever. And you just you have to understand that there's there's an educational aspect that you need to do to catch up to where your players need to get.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

That's a good point. That's a good point. There's so many opportunities for coaches to really develop these kids. It's such a short window. And maybe you don't see it because the season might seem so long and you're dragging on, but it is a very short window that you have these kids. You've got their full attention when you've got them in your practices and at your game. So, I mean, use those opportunities to help develop good people as you're looking to develop good hockey players as well. And parents, your role is really important too. You need to help. If you see your kid acting up and being a jerk out there on the ice, you gotta call them out. Hey, that's that that's not acceptable. You and you you keep it up, you're done. You're done. You have to you have to be tough with them.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Yeah, Chris, that is a good point. And you know, again, we can't control the parents either. But if you see your kid misbehaving and being a bully, you better be on them. It's not funny.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Yeah, yeah. That's what um, you know, that's what my husband would do. And and you never saw them being jerks out there. He said, you know what? Get your skates, take them off.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

That's what I do too.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Walk them out, we're all done.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Yeah, but I'm I'm not I tell my son all the time, I don't like bullies. I'm not raising, I don't want to raise a bully. You know, I say Tom, I think you were being a bully out there. I don't like bullies, and that that really hits him hard when I say that, right? Because you know, I'm not trying to be a bully, but you're being one. I have no problem calling him out. Uh, Mike, to your point, too. I've heard this about um NHL coaches are well, those they're soft on their team. I I've heard parents say that. Well, like, well, three of the last uh three Stanley Cups were won by coaches that subscribed to this, and I'm gonna trust them that they know what they're talking about. And it's a lot more than three, by the way. This goes way back now, like the coaches caring about their players. Uh this is the norm now at the top levels, parents and coaches of of coaching a person, not just the player, right? And getting to know the people, not just the player. You're producing people at the youth level, not players.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Yeah, but and even though I tell you my John Cooper story.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

No, please do. And then Mike will jump back in.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

So he was yeah, Tampa Bay lightning coach. So he was three cups in a row.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Let's just say three cups in a row, this guy has yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

So he was coaching the Syracuse Crunch, and of course, uh the Syracuse Crunch sponsored my books. And we were doing a book signing out at the mall, and he um he was very gracious. The team loaned me three players to help autograph books with me at Destiny Mall. I'm there that the kid they're calling the kids, they're so young. So they they show up 15 minutes before the book signing, sat down so polite, asking if there's anything special they want me to say, want them to say or to write on the books, and they wanted to see the book. They were just the the nicest young men. All of a sudden, this their coach shows up. I wasn't really familiar with them at that point, and they sit up with attention. And he comes over to me and goes, How are they? I go, these these three, oh my gosh, they're so polite. They're so amazing. Did they show up on time? Yeah, he goes, I'm Coach Cooper. I'm their coach. I just want to make sure they were here on time, they're being polite, they're doing everything that they're supposed to do. I go more that, I mean, they're going above and beyond. He goes, Okay, he goes, I'll take two of your books. And he was but yeah, that was a point to to stop what he was what he was doing, to go to the mall to make sure that they were on time and they were being polite and they were doing what they were supposed to be doing. Unexpected. He just was on a covert operation.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

Like, how much does that have to do with the power play working the next night? Actually, it has a lot to do with it. It has everything to do with it. Has everything to do with it.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Because you know, the players that that, you know, and I think even tough guys, even like it was funny, even even um, so they that one of the panels that that I was sitting in on had um, you know, uh Martin St. Louis and and Gerard Galant, and and it was just and and and just listening to the juxtaposition of okay, well, you know, right now you're gonna have like a John Tortorella who's a tough guy. Gerard Galant would be considered a tough guy, right? He'd be the first guy saying, Okay, you guys are soft, you know, you you're you're you're a bunch of pillows out there. Like to like in the in the other in the in the in our world that we're in right now, they're like, whoa, you can't say that to somebody, you're gonna hurt their feelings, or you know, and I and I but I think but he's obviously connected in a way where he's also knows that he has to pull a player aside and what players, you know, a lot of those guys will talk about trust you know, what players can I can I give the heads up? Like, listen, we're gonna be in the video in about 10 minutes. You're gonna look really bad on this video, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta understand that we're doing this so we could be a better hockey team. Right. And then that player is not taken by surprise. They're they're you know, they feel like they're respected. Uh, but the fact is they're like, yeah, that was pretty bad. Like, that was a bad flyby.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Look what's happening to coaches who don't do that. Look what happened to Urban Meyer in football last year. Treated his coaching staff and players horribly. He's out in one year. And it's you could you don't have to look forward to seeing this. So look, like you have to establish trust as a coach with your players. And this this goes at any level. This is not not just have to be pro.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Well, you don't have to, right? You don't have to. You could be you could be a youth hockey coach for a long time and get players in and out, and nobody calls you out on the carpet. But guess what? I could I could almost tell you, I I you know, if you write down and see the the retention rates of those coaches, they're very few. But what happens? An unsuspected other group of kids get in there, like, oh, we heard that this person was great, and they're like, what the hell is this? Like, I gotta get out of here. So it's a vicious cycle that doesn't end, but nobody calls them out on it. So, like getting back to our, you know, the original premise, right, of the conversation today, that you know, you can either help make change, you can you can influence it in a positive way and try, but sometimes listen, sometimes there just isn't the ability to do that. And to Chrissy's point, sometimes you just gotta you gotta say, well, what where have we have we done the reflection? Have we reached out? Have we tried to make change? Right. Have we tried to do it again? And then what's our what's our what's our last resort? And and that's just the fact of everything, right? If I don't like my if I keep going to my mechanic and the car keeps coming out the same way and it just rattles and rocks, and the guy said he fixed it, and then they go back, and it's the guy said he fixed it, and they go back, and it got then maybe I don't go back to him anymore. You know, maybe I just find I I just do my research and find a different mechanic. It's no different in in in hockey coaching and in organization.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

That's that's a great analogy.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

It's fantastic. Yeah, I agree. Look, I'll I'll say my closing piece and I'll throw it back to you too. There's there's two things I want to say. One is that um as parents, when our kids hurt, we hurt. You know, I remember my dad telling me that, and I'm feeling that now as a parent. I see it all the time, right? When your kid hurts, you hurt. If you're feeling that pain, odds are they're feeling the same thing. You have to teach them as a parent, you know, what's the right message here? Is it to focus on the kid who hurts you, or is it to focus on the pain and knowing how to compartmentalize this? Because this is what this is my testament, uh, especially any of the kids listening out there. All right, if you're getting teased a lot and you're working your butt off, all right, and you got parents at home that love you, right? If you can learn to take that adversity and use it as fuel, if you can learn to keep moving forward when everybody's telling you to stop, if you can learn to do these things, even when it seems like everyone's telling you that you're not gonna do it, you're the one who's gonna make it. I promise you that. All right, and make it it might not be what you think it is, but you're the one who's gonna succeed later in life. All right. The the the kid who can't handle that adversity, the kid who internalizes it all, doesn't have the support system, thinks they're alone. Parents, I'm talking to you right now, they have a hard time. Because the truth is this none of us are ever really alone, even when you feel alone. That's what depression really is it's thinking that you're alone. There's a good chance about eight billion people on the planet, it's a good chance someone has been through or is going through what you're going through. You are not alone, right? That's one of the reasons we made this show. So let parents know you're not alone, right? And as as I discover this journey, Chrissy's been through the journey, Mike's in the journey, right? Um, that's one of the reasons we made this show. But I'm telling you right now, that kid at home is practicing his butt off, getting teased for working hard. You will make it. Don't give up on that dream, no matter what anybody else says to you. All right. You're learning more right now than probably most people. I again, it's personal for me because I I was that kid, right? Um, and I'm I I have nothing but grace now. For I'm thankful for the people that tease me. I'm thankful for the lessons that I've learned. And in and like I hold nothing against them. It's not even an anger, it's like, hey, we were kids, right? I I I I hope I everyone honestly hope everyone that did that's doing well. I don't have any ill wish on anybody. So that's the result of that, at least from my point of view. Um I love this topic. I love that it was suggested to us, to the person that suggested it, you know who you are. Thank you so much for bringing it up. I do want to throw it back to Mike and Christy for any final thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Yeah, I just want to just appeal to coaches too. Don't turn a blind eye when you see hurting going on within your team. Uh, you can make the change, you can change the culture. You have that power to do that. And it's all about um just zero tolerance. So I would appeal to them. I think you can you can be the key to turning that around.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

You can change a life, right, Christy. You can be one of the changes. I can't tell you how how many kids have I had this one coach that changed my life. You can be that coach every year. Yeah, right. Michael Banelli, you're on the hot seat to to to find out.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

I just I think it's your your your guys both bring up great points as as and I think a lot of it comes because you come from a perspective of a parent now, right? So to any young coach that that isn't a parent, and I I definitely like I I've changed so much as a coach and educator after having children than I was before that. And I and I really should have listened to things like this, like mentors and other people and and parents to understand that you know their pain is as much or more, like you feel more pain. So when your kid doesn't get ice time, you you feel that the kids are like, Oh no, I think I got plenty of ice time. No, you didn't, you know, like there's no way you had, you know, aren't you upset about this? No, I'm I'm actually didn't even realize it was happening. You know, so I think to to a young coach that's in that role, just understand where the parents are coming from, is that that it's just you don't know until you are, and you don't realize the pain that you feel and and the and not that you want to be a helicopter parent, you know, not as a parent you want to protect your kids, but you understand, like, okay, this is trivial and this is serious. Like, this is something that might hurt them for a long time because I understand as an adult what this manifests to, or oh, this is pretty stupid, like the kid squirted a water bottle in his face, you know, like come on, like let's, let's, let's, let's, let's just put in things in perspective. But when you're not when you're a coach that doesn't have kids, it's so hard to understand that unless you're educated and and and you and you like can can be in a place where you can listen to other people give you that uh perspective. And if you don't agree with the perspective, then then you're really gonna struggle as a coach, I think. You're gonna struggle connecting with kids and parents because you're just not, you know, I don't want to say you know, you're just not in their shoes, you're just not in a situation to understand uh what that level of angst is. And you know, just do it, just try to be a a coach that understands that when you're dealing with children and and youth sports and um, you know, and and human beings.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

It's a fantastic point, Mike. And and again, you know, as we close this out, we said this early in the show. Where do I get these information? Where do I get office drills? Where do I get information about what they've been talking about today? Email us, team at our kidsplayhockey.com. If you need office drills to do team building, I'm telling you right now, I am opening the door. Email me at team at our kidsplayhockey.com, or if you want to do my actual email lee at game seven group.com. I'd be happy to help any coaches or parents or anybody that need information. That's what we're here for. I want to share. And obviously, if you have any uh questions or concerns or thoughts on this, you disagree, agree, anything, email us team at our kidsplayhockey.com. We're the the the inbox is open all the time. Um, as always, we want to thank you for listening to this show. You are a wonderful audience. You've been with us all summer. The the listenership is there. Uh, if you haven't already, make sure to give us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening to us. It really does help us out a lot. We really appreciate this if you can do that. And obviously, share it with a friend. That's one of the ways it's spreading. People are sharing with each other. Um, you know, again, all the episodes are available on our kidsplayhockey.com or wherever you're listening. Thank you so much for uh being here, everybody. We'll see you next week with another great edition of this podcast. Take care. Hey, bye-bye. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, ourkidsplayhockey.com. Also make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, and when hockey stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.