College Hockey Recruiting: How to Find the Right Fit with 2aDays Founder Kiersten Sires

SPEAKER_01 1:20

This episode is powered by NHL Sense Arena. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Leah Lias, joined by Mike Benelli and the wonderful Christy Cassiano Burns. You know, for many hockey families, no matter where you are in the youth hockey journey, college hockey feels like it's a finish line, right? Parents spend years driving to practices, traveling to tournaments, attending showcases, spending a lot of money, and investing hours, time, and dollars. Again, hoping hockey might help open a door. But here's the question: What happens when that door does open? How do you know it's the right one? Because choosing a college isn't just about finding a coach who wants you, it's about finding a place where you'll grow as a student, as an athlete, and as a person. Today's guest has dedicated her career to helping families better understand the recruiting process and make more informed decisions about college athletics. So, this is a topic you're going to want to learn about no matter where you're at on that journey. Please join us in welcoming the founder and CEO of TwoA Days, Kirsten Syers. Kirsten, welcome to Our Kids Play Hockey.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

I'm happy to be here. Super pumped to, you know, answer any questions and talk through the recruiting process and everything that kind of comes with it.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

Kirsten, Kirsten, so many questions we have for you. Welcome aboard. We're really thrilled to have you. Having been through it, I gotta tell you, it's stressful. It's stressful for your student athlete, it's stressful for parents. There's so much we need to learn from you today. First question for you misconceptions. There's a lot of them out there. What do you think the biggest misconception parents have and kids too of the college recruiting process? Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Absolutely. I think number one big misconception in general is just the more D1 or bust mentality of things, right? That if I don't go D1, it's a failure. I have to do it. Um, obviously, a lot of times there's listen, we're all athletes, we're a little ego, and that's okay. That's that's you know sometimes what makes a successful athlete, and that's fine, but you don't want to let your ego drive a poor decision. Um, and you don't want to be in a situation where you think that the division one prospect is more important than finding the right fit, uh, coach-wise, major, and just overall school fit as well. So I'd say that in general is just a big misconception. And a lot of people think that, you know, some sometimes there are like level drop-offs and differences, but when you're talking about top programs, you know, even division uh three especially, some great hockey programs out there, um, as well as all the other sports. But I would say that's generally just one that we tackle right away when we're talking to our athletes.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

I'm glad you said that because there really are a lot of great division three programs, especially for women. It's really growing, lots of great opportunities out there. So hopefully, parents aren't discounting that say they got their eye on the D1 prize. You need to broaden your horizons because, as you said, it's not about that pretty uh letter on the logo on the sweater, it's about the experience that your kids are gonna have. So, where do parents get started? And kids.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah, how soon? I always say it's not it's never too soon, right? And I don't mean in the sense of talking to coaches or anything, obviously, because there's roadblocks with that. Um, but more in the sense of starting to, you know, visit schools, whether it's you're going to a hockey tournament and you want to drive by through a campus or something that's in the area. I think doing some research beforehand is really important. Um, there are small things too, like checking out rosters, how high is the turnover for that specific coach, um, watching some YouTube videos or live streaming some games of schools that you're interested in. Can I actually play with these players? Do I think that um I'm overshooting goals? Do I think that I'd be the best player on the team? Um, I think trying to understand as early as possible is important. Another thing, low, oh go corporate buzzword here, low hanging fruit. Follow the teams on Instagram or whatever social media that you're on. Every single team has, you know, social media at this point. So start to follow, see the vibe. How are the players interacting with the coaches? Are the coaches on the social? You know, are they having a good time? What's it kind of look like from that perspective? And a lot of times, you know, those uh profiles will have like takeovers and you can kind of get a sense of what the school is like. Not that it's going to be a perfect reflection, right? Because it's obviously curated content, but you could still get some sort of vibe on how things are kind of moving forward. And then, you know, generally speaking, I'd say like starting to reach out to D3 coaches is always good sooner rather than later. There really aren't that many roadblocks for that. So you could kind of talk to coaches pretty early for that. Even some ACHA programs. I know ACHA is obviously another opportunity that a lot of other sports don't have the opportunity with. Hockey is unique in that. Um, so I think you know, reaching out to programs that don't necessarily have the roadblocks up front and starting to get your name out there is always a great thing to do early on. And then once you, you know, have the D1 and uh two mentality and that next step when you're able to, you can kind of move forward and reach out to those coaches when when the time is right.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

You know, I I think it's such a missed opportunity. You said it a couple of times uh, you know, in this in the beginning here, but it's such a missed opportunity for hockey athletes, especially because of all the traveling we do with our kids and all of the prep school and college and university campuses we're on all the time, and that kids, you know, go in, they play, they get out. And and I think that it's so important that the parents uh and even the coaches could help spearhead, you know. I know, like with my teams, if we go to Yukon, you know, we're going to Yukon two hours early and we're staying two hours late. We always try to, you know, maybe have a meal at the dining hall or try to figure out a way to get into other parts of the facilities. I think for you know, for the one percenters and those those division one college athletes that are being recruited when they're 14 years old, you know, the rest of us, uh really, like to your point, uh, we sometimes, you know, you you could help the coaches, right? Those D3 programs and ACHA programs, they don't have the same budgets, they don't have the same reach, they don't have the same ability for their coaches to go and you know go to all the showcases. They can go to certain ones, but all of a sudden, you know, if I get a player that wants to play for me and that player matches up athletically with me, I think that's gold, right? I think that's like, okay, you've done half the job for me. But you know, what could players do knowing the landscape, you know, knowing that there's so much changing uh pieces to college hockey right now, what could players and parents do to then look at the college and say, okay, you know, the old adage like when I was recruiting, if you if you get break your leg on September 1st, will you love this school? Will you like this university? The work that goes into all of that to get there, right? And then, you know, it's it's not not everybody can just say, Oh, I'm not playing hockey here. Let me just transfer. Like, so what is it about the school? You choose the school, the major. What are you what are you telling your student athletes that they should be looking at holistically, you know, from perspective as a student first?

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Yeah, uh it's great. Broken leg test, we talk about that all the time, you know. Um, we hope that doesn't happen to anyone, but you know, in case it, you know, in this situation where you even end up quitting or whatever, or and you really don't want to get in the portal. I mean, that's a whole separate conversation. I'm sure we can do a whole podcast. But let's just say, you know, we're we're starting from square one and we're working with our athletes on okay, we know you want to end up in college. First of all, always, and I can't do this for student athletes, obviously, your own personal assessment, talk to your you know, club coach and whoever else on where they think you're gonna fit, low tier D1, high D1, D3, ACHA, that's between you know you and your parents and your coaches, kind of to figure that part out. But when we're talking about just the overall view of college, of course, what's our number one thing that we're spending money to go to college for? The degree. Okay. So if you have a sense of what type of major that you want to go into, I think aiming for really strong programs that you can get into academically is always important. And especially if it's a really niche major. Now, if it's one that's a little bit more broad, like a business major or an English major that every school is gonna have, then we can kind of dial it into location. What location do I want to be in? Do I want to be in a city? Do I want to be in a rural area? Do I want to be close to home? I mean, especially if you're close with your family and you want your parents come to all your games, you know, that is something that you have to consider. And then I think a lot of times people don't understand how expensive it is to travel back and forth from college, especially if you're on a plane. You have to, you know, get a storage unit for your stuff in between semesters and you got to come home for holidays. And, you know, there's a lot of planning that goes into going to a school far away. I know when I was younger, I was like, oh, it'd be great to go to school in California. I didn't go to school in California, but you know, when you're young, it's like, oh, that'd be really cool. Pipe dream, like, you know, this would be awesome. But reality kind of sets in as you're going through the process. Now, so I think number one major, number two, location. Then we want to talk about like vibe of school, slash what type of role do I want on this team? Am I okay with being, you know, on a championship team and maybe riding the bench at first and working to earn a spot? Do I want to be a four-year All-American and, you know, be on a program that maybe isn't like the most winning-est program, but I could, you know, really step up to the plate and excel in my role? Um, and kind of everything in between, I think, is something to really consider. Or do I just want to, am I happy to ride the bench for four years and I just want to, you know, be part of a team and be a cheerleader, which again, that's not a bad thing. You're still on the team, you're still contributing. Everybody needs to be have a different role. Um, I think that's another thing to consider is where do you realistically think you're gonna fit on the team? And sometimes that's again, this is the ego part where it's hard to dial back and really think and and understand that that role that you want to play. But it's really important to start thinking about it early on because that'll also direct on where you're gonna go. And then I just think, you know, small things like how's the dining hall? I mean, everyone always talks about it. And you know, what are my dorms looking like?

SPEAKER_01 11:53

How's the weather?

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah, how's the weather? Yeah, exactly. Like, what are those small things that I'm gonna be living? I mean, you're moving for four years or maybe five years now, I don't know. Um, you know, what is what is that gonna kind of look like overall? And can I see myself being happy here? It's easier, you know, it's easier said than done in this situation because you do kind of have a tendency, obviously, to go to the programs where people are contacting you. So out of those, you know, uh coaches that are reaching out to you on that list, what do I think would be a good happy place for for four years? Um, and again, I think location and and um just the major and everything else are important. And when you go on your recruiting trip, you're gonna end up in a situation where you're gonna, you know, probably go to a class or you know, be with athletes. I think that's a really good time to really get an understanding for it for the actual vibe of the school.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Right. And when you have when you have those conversations with other athletes, ask them when the coaches aren't around. Hey, what is a typical day in the life for me going to be like on this team? What are the study times? What's the travel like? You know, what kind of conditioning program do you have? Uh, what's the meal prep like? All of that. Take time to ask the other kids on the team when you get a chance on that recruiting trip that you mentioned. It was always really helpful to get a real slice of life from kids when the coaches aren't standing there.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Well, they'll typically tell you the truth. Like, you know, uh, if they're pretty checked out, that tells you something. And I I've seen that across the board. I mean, the the players will be honest, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Be careful, be careful. One of my recruiting trips, I had I had the worst recruiting trip. I I will name the school or the or the person. But what was happening is the coach was putting me with uh, you know, had had paired me up with a freshman of the current year, and that freshman knew I was better than that freshman.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

And they really they really ripped the school apart pretty good. Like they're like, oh, you know, you don't get this, you don't get that. And it was so funny how that, you know, depending on how you got matched up with the person that you're gonna take their job from. I mean, it really is uh, you know, it's a nuance, right? It's because players want to see it's a really dancing game for coaches to bring recruits in, because what they're saying is, listen, I'm I'm trying to get this kid that's better than you right now. Yeah, and I think that's a really hard thing to do. And I think parents have to throw that into the equation, uh, you know, correct? Like that that you have to know, like that's where your research comes in, Kirsten, right? That you have to know, like, oh, do you know the turnover here? Do you know that maybe this coach brings in 20 freshmen for three spots, and you know, you're gonna fight for these positions. Like everybody, this is not you know, high school where you call out for your team and you make the team. Like, this is like, you know, okay, I'm gonna go there, and and there's a pretty pretty big chance that I might be calling home.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Although, Mike, I would make the argument that well, first off, everything Mike just said is 100% accurate. Follow me here. All right, but I would make the argument that the sign of a grade team is not seeing that, and that the freshman understands you might be taking my job, but hey, we've created that team culture. Now, now that's that is uh somewhat never never land thinking, but it does exist. All right, like I want I want people to know that, right? But you do have to look for it both ways. You know, another thing I want to say to the parents listening, that and this is so important, do not assume that your college experience is the way college is now. And that is for any generation listening to this show. I grew up in the time where I was told, hey, when I went to college, I worked the job, I paid for everything. Well, college did not cost when I went to college what it cost when you went to college. And then, same thing. I went to college at the turn of the century. It is very different today than it was at the turn of the century. I know a lot of parents my age are like, well, it wasn't that long ago. Yes, it was. I'm sorry to break it to all of you. It was over 20 years ago. All right. College has changed a lot. Not to mention, from choosing a major standpoint, everything has changed, right? I'm reading articles every day right now with the advent of AI, how majors are all up in the air right now with what kids are choosing to do. Remember, like we say with youth hockey, gang, you can cultivate, you can't create. Don't tell your kid what to do. Let them figure that out. That actually brings me to the next question. We're kind of talking about it, but let's talk about is a college right for me academically? I think a lot of times parents we can fall in the trap of, like, man, if they get to college and get a scholarship and they pay for college, all this has been worth it. You can't look at it that way. Kirsten, we always say the ROI of youth hockey is the life lessons that you're gonna get. The nightmare scenario for me, which I have seen, is a kid that does get a scholarship or does get to a good school, and they play their hockey, they don't realize that it's going to end at some point, no matter who you are, and then the education goes wayside number one, they don't identify with anything else, and then by the time their career ends, they went to college just to play hockey, and there's nothing left. Right. So, yeah, how do you approach that from a student athlete portion, right? Because it can't it really can't just be about the athletics.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

No. So I do want to say back to you you made a great point as far as the life lessons being the ROI to an extent. I want to note that's especially with female athletes. They recently came out, I think it was Time Magazine. I'm gonna misquote the percentage, but it was like either 80 or 90 percent of female athletes that played in high school, but definitely through college, that were college athletes, are holding some sort of like board position or C-suite position or upper management position. So, especially for female athletes, going through the process and being a college athlete shows on your resume 100%. I've talked to so many employers that say we see college athlete on the resume, we want to hire them. People seek out college athletes for hiring. So to note that as like a big end goal, right? Because even if you do go play in the NHL, like you still have to have a job even after, most likely, you know. Um, so I think always understanding that that is really, really important.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

The academics are sorry, and you're not just talking D1. I do want to make sure we make it right for everybody. Yeah, that is everything.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Collegiate athletes in general, ACHA, NAIA, you name it across the board. This is important for student athletes in general. Because again, career, it does teach you the intangibles, though. Like as far as we're talking about, you know, reading a room, being on a team, working together, collaboration, being driven, you know, going the extra mile for things. Like it really does teach time management. There's so many things that sports teach, right? That's number one. Number two, when we talk about just, you know, with our student athletes, okay, when we're looking at academics and where we want to go, of course, there's gonna be GPA minimums for all the different teams. Every school is gonna be different as far as that's concerned. I know with hockey, especially too, it's like we're growing a lot more in college athletics in general. I would be great to see some big schools down south start to get some hockey. It's obviously very much concentrated in the northern part of the country. Um, so that being said, those are some really hard academic institutions that you kind of have to step your foot into most of the time. Um, you don't really have the luxury of looking at the entire country because not the the whole country doesn't have hockey as you know, as far as everything's concerned. Also, you guys, the upcoming grades, and this is specifically for parents, if you do the math on Canadians now being able to come in a lot easier to play in college. If you look at the transfer portal where people are going back to, you know, taking transfers instead of you know their actual high school athletes, your competition is a lot harder now. Um, so when you're looking at just the sheer numbers, you have to understand that you need a good academic institution fit. You need the grades to get in because you're competing against a lot of other people that previous athletes weren't technically competing against. So it's just it's created a lot. And I know you have the junior hockey route, which is also different, and there's you know, prep schools, which is big. So there are other options as far as like getting in extra years, again, that a lot of other sports don't really have uh the luxury of that hockey does. But when we're talking about going from any level of hockey into a college setup, it really has to be academics first. Where am I gonna fit? And the better you do in school, the easier it is for the coaches to kind of vouch for you 10 out of 10 times. And we do interviews with coaches and with student athletes all the time. We have a couple uh um, you know, college coaches, ice hockey coaches, and then a bunch of interviews with players as well. When we look at the coaches, it's always like grades are so important because, especially in hockey, because the institutions that have ice hockey are usually high academic institutions. So you have to, have to, have to worry about that. And then again, the majors and everything are really important as well. Sometimes it takes applying to a school for a niche major. You could change your major if you don't like it, but sometimes that might be a separating factor of okay, you know, there's a nursing major, there's not a ton of men that are going into that field. Maybe I'm gonna put in for that. Maybe I start out and I realize I do or don't like it, and then you figure it out from there. There's there's like tips and tricks on how to kind of get around that stuff as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah, I do want to say real quick, just for the the parents and kids listening, I agree with you 100%, Kirsten. I think it's important for people to know, especially the parents, if your kids going to college and they don't know what their major is or they don't know what they want to do, that's that's also okay to start. All right. Like I think a lot of times we got to know what you're gonna do. Like, uh, they're gonna do this for 40, 45 years of their life. Let's make sure that there's some enjoyment um in what they're doing. Uh it I always say, like the first couple years of school, I mean, you can't switch 50 times, but it's okay to kind of dabble and feel and talk and learn what your major is. Now, to your point, too, Kirsten, I want to say this. Um, speaking specifically to collegiate hockey, not junior hockey, um, I want the parents to understand this. In the levels I've coached, I have not seen a kid, male or female, me personally, come out of college and get to pro that wasn't graded school. All right, like the kids who go to school and don't do well in school, I mean, typically they flunk out and they're out of school. But I'm saying even if they don't do well, I don't see them get too far beyond school. I'm just reinforcing the fact that grades really do matter, and that if you're gonna do hockey well, if you're gonna do the all the things you said, the the time prep, the organization, the people skills, if you can't apply that to the schoolwork, it's not uh I'll say it as a coach, that's just not good enough, right? Like it's an all-the-time thing that you're doing. You don't just do it when the hockey game's going on, you do it all the time. So for the parents listening, and I know you know this, if there's any kids listening, the academic side of this and succeeding academically is just as, if not more important than the athletic side. And you've got to find a path to those two worlds are are in the same world, essentially. I think we separate them too much from uh from a student athlete standpoint. I just wanted to say no, and that's so important.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

I just wanted to know real quick there's a great website called scholarshipstats.com, and he the guy who Who does it? He's like a CPA, he does it for fun, but he pulls out all the numbers down to sports specific on the percentage chance of you actually playing in college. And again, hockey is unique because you have football, but most of those kids are Americans. We're talking about hockey, you have a lot of international competitions. I play tennis in college. I same with tennis, you know. There's certain sports where that's just is what it is. So for hockey, again, you have a lot of competition. Go on scholarshipstats.com, look at the actual percentage chance of you playing D1, D3, whatever. He lays it all out, just to humble yourself for a second. And then think, okay, if I'm really convinced that they're going to get a scholarship, let's dial it back into division three. Okay, they get a lot of heat because it's not academic scholarships. The percentage of student athletes that get some form of financial aid from division three institutions is like 85%. So it's not to say, yeah, you still have to pay, but there's a lot of ways that D3 institutions can still give athletes money, not in the name of being an athlete, but other ways. I've heard of D3 programs who have really strong, like winning programs. They'll get people who are alumni to basically donate an entire, you know, tuition for a certain athlete that they want on their program. Now that's not every single college, but there are colleges out there that do things like this where it's like they're almost gifting a tuition to a student athlete, or they're doing it merit-based or you know, academic-based. There's a lot of different ways to get around it. So I don't want people to think that just because you're looking at other institutions doesn't mean that you still can't get money. I mean, I think the University of Tampa's pretty good at hockey, but they're ACHA. Um, and I think that's another thing too. It's like the coaches who can go and advocate to the institution to be like, hey, we have a really good program. We know we're not under NCAA, but I still want to help these student athletes out. It's a D2 college for under the NCAA purposes. There are coaches that do and can advocate for. I think having a really strong um athletic director is super important too, which, you know, as a parent going through that process, you don't really think about it. But the president of the school and the act uh athletic directors are really important for advocating for just where funds go. So I think again, those are things, and this is stuff that we have on our site personally that people can go kind of check those things out to say, okay, this act uh athletic director is great. They've been there for X amount of years, it looks like they're putting a lot of money into their athletics, versus one that's like, okay, they just cut five of their programs like regular other sports. Um, it doesn't look like their finances are doing well. I'm not sure if this is something, you know, a place that's going to be sustainable. They might cut the hockey team or, you know, they're in serious debt, the school might shut down. I know those are this is definitely more of a parent conversation, but those are things that you have to look at. The financial health of the institution. And I'm not talking about, you know, University of Michigan, but I'm saying in general, when it comes down to other schools that are smaller, less known, financial stability of those institutions is important. And we're seeing every day more and more colleges shut down, but also programs being cut. And ice hockey is not, you know, that's one that will can potentially get cut. Um, they're trying to add on, like a football is never going to get cut. You know, football kind of exists in its own world. They almost think they should just have their own like league and you know their own thing because their whole process is so different from every other sport.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Right. Yeah, and that's true. And you know, this happened to my daughter. Uh, a D1 program in the Midwest had folded, and she was looking at this one school, and they were recruiting her big time. She was ready to go, and all of a sudden they got flooded by these D1 players from the Midwest because their program folded. So, yeah, the landscape is changing. You're right. And a lot of these smaller schools are folding, and one of the first programs they're going to look to cut, unfortunately, might be hockey. So you need to take all of that into consideration as you're making your decisions. I'm glad you raised that point. That's really important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

You know, go ahead, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

No, I listen, I just these are all like these are like to me, Kirsten. Right, is it's about going and doing your research. It sounds like, you know, like a site like yours is a great place to start. You know, just start seeing like what are like what are all the pitfalls? Like, you know, you know, not every not not most people don't have advisors, they don't really need them per se, as far as like the the the gathering the information that they need to make themselves a better consumer. Uh, but there is a time, you know, where at the at the end of the day, the the the old adage that you know uh you know, coaches you gotta make a job a coach's job easy, right? So, what are things that coaches that you're finding when you're interviewing these coaches, what are they looking for that consistently stands out? And yeah, you know, not the not oh yeah, well of course, that's the best right winger in in the showcase. That's an easy kid to see. It's like, oh, of course, we all want that kid. But what are all the other intangibles that you feel, you know, that maybe aren't just like, oh, nice kid, great grades. Like, what are some of the things that coaches are seeing and you're hearing uh that really you know could help a player understand like what could I do to stand out a little bit more that coaches really are looking for right now?

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Yeah, there's one controversial one, which is, and sometimes this is an offline conversation with the coaches, sometimes they don't care if they say it out loud, uh, you know, on on the record, we'll say. Um, the parents are the parents throwing punches at refs in the middle of the game. Um, are they screaming at their kid? Are they, you know, cheering their kid on? Are they hiding behind the bushes? Like, and I'm not hiding behind the bushes isn't a bad thing. I'm just saying, what are the parents doing? Um and how are they interacting? And I think most of the time, if you just show up, you're neutral, of course, cheer your kid on. Nobody's saying don't cheer your kid on. But if you're aggressively negative, if you're, you know, really causing scenes, if you've been kicked out of venues, like you want to tone that down because that's something that coach is going to look at and say, I don't want to deal with that parent. Like, there's been, and we have this series on our site, and all this is free, but um, we have this series on our site called Recruiting Horror Stories under our blog. And we've had situations of kids tell us stories. Like, I did I the coach stopped recruiting me because my parent punched a ref in the face at the game. Like it happens. I know, I know, I know. Um, so I say that to reference a very specific story that we talk about, and we talk about these things that are a little bit more uncomfortable, but you know what? You have to know it. You I'd rather you know it, even though people might be up in arms about it, but it's the truth. Like you have to be a respectful person when you're showing up to these things. That that's important. And then from the kids' perspective, it's always like body language. How are you as a teammate? Um, how are you as a competitor? Same thing. Are you slamming your stick because you're mad? Are you uh helping a teammate who just fell? Like those things are things that coaches look for. How you play is how you play, and that's gonna get you recruited or not, and everything in between. But the the things that are will help you or hurt you are those, those are two really big um things. And again, let's just say it because I want to drill it into everybody's heads. Your GPA, uh, your you know, test scores, those things do really play a huge role in this as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah, I I think I think the ultimate goal here, right, is to is to stack the cards for in your favor. Like, you know, all those little like every like we all know, like when you get to the when you get to a place where you're even talking about playing in college at any level, you are an elite athlete. I mean, you're one of the you're one of the best athletes in that sport in your age. That's the bottom line. Whether you're playing club hockey, division one, division three, you're the best you're one of the best athletes. So, what are the little things that you can do to separate yourself? And when coaches have to start marking those down, we call them ends and buts. Like when we work with the kids, they're like, Do you want to have a lot of ends or you don't want to have a lot of buts? And I think you know, like the kids really resonate with us because they like, well, no, I don't want to have buddy does this and buddy does that, and buddy does this. I want, oh, and he does this, and then he does that, and he does that, and he has this. Like all of those things add up. I think when it comes down to dollars, your time commitment, you just talk about the parents, like this coach is probably investing in you in the next four years. And they're like, Okay, well, do I want a headache and do I want a project, or do I want a built piece that I can use today? And I think there is where I think a lot of parents and a lot of athletes, you know, don't see the nuances there. They don't understand that all of these coaches know everybody, they know everybody from the Zamboni driver to the snack bar person to the person that's you know the ranked manager. And these people are getting calls all the time. Like, what's that kid like in the locker room? What's he like in the hallways? What's he like uh during you know when he's helping out in a in an in an outreach learn the play program? Like all of these little things go such a long way, and I truly don't think people really appreciate that sometimes that's the difference in a kid getting a call and not, and and it's uh it's disheartening, but the tools are out there to find it.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

I'm I'm gonna say this too. If if we try not to compare anybody to the top players in the game, but I'm gonna say this just for context. When you look at like Connor McDavid and Sidney Crosby at 16, 17, they they were working so hard and were such good people already at that age. Like, I don't see the video of Crosby or McDavid being cocky and their parents punching the ref in the face. You're not gonna find that video. All right now, granted, neither one of those took the college route, okay? But the point I'm making is that when we have elite athletes on the show, they're typically really, really good people. Kirsten, to your point, and I just want to say this for the audience, so we they know this is not a joke. I have had on very high-level teams very talented players that I will not take because of their parents. I do not care how talented they are. What's funny is the player that I have in my mind, it's like they went to another school, and which was fine, right? And then I saw recently they went to another school. It's like they're switching schools every year. I I know why. All right, you know, so parents, it it's a major thing. Where I want to bring this to youth hockey, right? Because this is a youth hockey show. Yeah, the training for this begins the first day of might hockey by having your kid advocate for themselves and say something simple like go tell them your name and introduce yourself. And then as they get older, well, dad, mom, my coach is really ribbing me about this, okay? Why don't you, son or daughter, set up a meeting with your coach and have a conversation? Here's some great questions you can ask your coach. Well, mom, will you come with me? You have to do this on your own. Okay? I'll I'll be right beside you, I'm right there for you, and I'll help you out. And then obviously, if something goes wrong, I'll be there supporting you. Parents, you've gotta let them do this work. And I'm gonna say this too. And Kirst, I'd love your thoughts on this. One of the interesting things I'm seeing, and uh, this is this like I talked about technology changing and things like this. Kids are becoming less and less available to have face-to-face communications because of texting and the way we communicate today. And I'm telling you that if your kid can go up to a coach, shake their hand, and have a good conversation, that now today is a massive separator from other kids. All right, like I have a hard time getting some of my players to text me back sometimes, which is it it blows my mind. It's like it's the easiest thing to do. Can you talk about that for a minute? About in the today's landscape from a youth hockey standpoint, or you can even do youth sports. How important is that these parents and these kids cultivate these people-to-people skills now so that it pays off later on?

SPEAKER_02 35:19

I I can't speak enough about it, even to the point of like a handwritten note after a season to the coach. Like, hey, it doesn't have to be like you don't have to write a novel, but hey, thanks for you know, great season and whatever. Like those skills are so important, not only to build at a young age, because that's those are confidence builders, to be able to go as a kid up to a coach who's obviously way older than you and have a conversation and sit down and say, hey, look, and it depends on the age, but let's pretend like you know, kind of like teenage years, like, hey, I'm not getting enough playing time. Can we talk about it? Like, what can I do to work on these things? A coach is going to appreciate that so much more. And, you know, hopefully the coach is honest in return and you have a good conversation and learn how to deal with the adversity as you come through things. And I agree with you as far as even the texting, like small things, Mike, to your your question earlier, like when you're on a recruiting trip, try not to be on your phone. Sure, if you want to call your mom and say, hey, things are going great, I'm safe, great, fine. Nobody is upset with that. But scrolling on TikTok, you know, being on Instagram, you don't want to be doing those things when you're out in those situations. And I think it starts, you know, at the youth sports age to then have those translate later on in life across the board, of course, even into job and everything else. But if you build it at a young age, and you know, I do this with my I have I have three daughters, but I do this with my oldest daughter all the time. Like she's starting at a new school uh or pre-K for the first time. Like, you gotta go up to the teacher, you gotta say hi, nice to meet you. Like, and you know, sometimes she gets like a little shy of it, but you you know what? Next year she'll be more confident in it, and the year after and everything else. So I I totally agree with that. Um, you know, as far as just understanding that this is a personal relationship, I need to make sure that they know who I am and that they know that you know, I'm putting team first or whatever it is that you are as like your own mission statement, that's what you get across on the ice every single day.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

I'm laughing because I don't know what the stat is today. I bet you it's even more impactful. But I remember reading a stat when I was in college that if you go up to the teacher the first day and just introduce yourself, your chances of like passing the class go up like unbelievably just because they know who you are. Now, obviously, you have to do the work, don't get me wrong, but uh I want to share that. Yeah, having your kid just go up and introduce themselves to the coach, to the teacher. This is from elementary school all the way through college. Uh, it does something. And I'll tell you right now, because I've been on both sides of that, as a student and as a teacher, we remember that stuff. I remember the kids who come up to me and go out of their way to introduce themselves, especially on the high-level team. And just to your point, um, I I coach youth hockey too. Um, I keep all the letters I get from my players at the end of the season. I don't they don't go in the trash. Like I keep them and they mean something to me. And and I and that's from U10 all the way up to the captain of my national team signed me a picture, which I framed, right? Like I remember those things. So I just want to reinforce that.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

Right. Yeah, and another thing I want to uh get to is how important culture is, right? Coaches and culture, that's huge, right? And one of the ways my daughter was able to pick up on the culture is just going to a game and watching how did the coach interact with the kids? How did how did the players interact with each other? Were they supporting each other? She was able to pick up such a good vibe at the school that she eventually picked just by sitting in the bench quietly and watching a game. So helpful.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Yeah. No, it's it's huge. And you know, hockey culture is different in the sense that everybody's so passionate about hockey, right? It's like it's hockey or not. Um, but it's it's a great culture to be part of because you don't get that with a lot of sports. Um, I mean, even if you look at what you guys have for examples in the pro leagues, it's like nobody's saying that people are acting like soccer, where they're, you know, falling in the middle of the field and everything else, it's like quite the opposite, where people are playing with missing teeth, broken noses, what have you. So hockey is passionate, it's fun, it's crazy, it's all like the great things that I think make sports awesome to watch. And, you know, if let's just say if you're listening and you are a person who's going through a recruiting process or not even quite there, and you're thinking about the schools, everything else, I mentioned this earlier. There's a lot of times that they're streaming these games now, even if you can't get to it, if it's far away, if you're already spending enough money, because of course, like hockey's also expensive too. Um, you know, you could still try, you're never gonna pick up the same vibe, obviously, as actually being at the rink, but you could still kind of see how the players are interacting, how the bench is, what's happening, even over, you know, a streaming game and everything else. So if you can't physically get to the game um and you're not quite at the the level of where you're going on a recruiting trip yet, and it's far away and you gotta fly it, do things like that. Like use your resources right now. You can get the most information you could ever get for a recruiting process. Like things like this didn't exist when I was going through the recruiting process. I mean, people were still using DVDs to send to send their highlight tape. So, you know, like now that you have access to all these things, like take an extra couple, you know, hours on a Saturday or an hour or whatever, and go stream some games and you know, see what players are doing and and how they're interacting and everything else. And and you can start to learn a lot about your own style and how you think you want to play. And, you know, I don't know if this is true for hockey, but we we see a lot of times with sports players have their certain position, but then they step into the college role, and then sometimes their position ends up changing and everything else. So, you know, learn about other positions and you know, kind of just soak it all in as much as possible. And it it seems like a very daunting process, obviously, but it is a really short amount of time in your whole career. So you want to kind of throw as much into it as you possibly can, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

So listen, I I come from an era of splicing VHS tapes. So listen, so if if uh you know for recruit for recruiting personality.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Um, you know, when I had the beta max out, I got it. Cutting edge. But I think this, but Kirsten, this goes both ways, right? I think, you know, so you know, as we're going through the recruiting process and kids are, you know, 13, 14, 15 years old, whatever sport they're in, I mean chasing uh, you know, chasing that recruiting piece, like finding out like how do I get exposure? When's exposure start? You know, what does that mean? Like it's like when when a when a tournament or showcase is saying, well, you're gonna get you know this exposure in the middle of July, and and you know, these seven coaches will be there and this organization is gonna be there. I mean, I I have a say I have a uh an adage uh to my players, like sometimes you know it's better to be seen at the right time than all the time. And I think can you talk a little bit about the reverse side of this? Like you're just talking about like how do you find the vibe of a team and a and a and the culture of a school? Maybe you can do that, you know, by remotely. Can you just talk about how coaches are using that uh opportunity remotely? And maybe they're not at they're not at everything, right? They're not at every single showcase and every single event. And how can parents balance that part of it? You know, we we all have budgets, we all we all have, I mean, the time it takes, forget about the money, even if all these showcases were free, you still have to get there and give up you know days and days and days. You know, what are some of the things that you would say um balancing opportunity versus reality of when these things come up?

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Yeah, I that's a great question. I just want to kick it off by saying, I want people to understand that just because you get like a stock email saying you should attend the showcase doesn't necessarily, or you know, tournament or what have you, it doesn't always mean that you're quote unquote being recruited. Like these they also have to make money and they're trying to fill spots and everything. And of course, it depends on the level too. Summarin by, I'm just talking about for let's say a run-of-the-mill average thing, you get an email, but it's like a stock, you know, thing, not somebody specifically reaching out to you, versus a coach being like, hey, I'm going to the showcase, I would love to see you there. You know, those are very different messages. Number one. Number two, um, when it comes to streaming youth games, if you're a parent, you should always understand. Again, you're always kind of being watched to an extent. Because even if I that specific coach isn't there, the coach's best friend might be there. And they might say, Hey, go watch Johnny for me. Um, you know, is he is he a good kid and whatever else? And that coach is going to report too. Again, resources, time, money, everything else. Coach might not be able to make it. Small worlds, okay? People talked. We had a situation with a bunch of soccer coaches, really good girl. All these coaches show up to the same field, and it's like they pulled up the email from the chick, it was all copy-paste from to all the different schools. Now you could copy and paste parts, and again, that's a whole other nuance, but it was exact word for word, just change the coach's name. It turned off like half the coaches. So, you know, on the coach's side, you could also stream the youth games now, you know, most of the time. Um, there's companies that are doing that. You can kind of tune in and use your resources on that way. And a lot of the times kids are making their own Twitters now and um posting their own like highlight tapes and everything else. You can kind of see all that information. Obviously, you know, with NIL, kids are trying to build brands now at a young age, which again, podcasts are a different time, right? Um, but when you have that, you can also see as a coach, you could check out the kids that you're recruiting their social medias. What are they doing on there? Are they doing dances and stuff? Which again, back in the day when I was being recruited, if you had social media, it was like you wanted to black everything, like nobody wants now, it's different. Now you can make money off of it. And you know, I think coaches have to if they haven't accept that that's the reality now. So, what are those things kind of looking like and how can

SPEAKER_04 45:20

get more information about who the player is as well because you know your so your footprint is out there your digital footprint is out there so you gotta kind of do the research on that end as well if that makes sense right but as you said it's still important to use that personal touch to tailor your email specifically to that coach to that school and sell yourself in a way that makes them feel really positive about you that personal touch does make the difference and coaches know when it's a copy and paste email they are they can at this point or yeah just just I would stay away from even using any part of AI in your email I would say this as a coach look if you're serious if and then be serious if you're serious about playing for me be serious about playing for me I'm not a cut and paste coach for you right like and you would never want me to do that to you right so so kids listening parents listening yeah if you're serious look look don't go down that road I'm gonna I'm gonna make this prediction that look AI is an amazing technology.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

I I'm not like down on AI. I think as a tool it's an amazing technology. I think where it becomes dangerous is when you lean on it too much right to do things for you. So I think writing is actually going to become an even more important skill uh in the future for things like what we're talking about. Because I think people are going to be saying is this real or is this AI? So it can help you serious yeah go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

No it can absolutely research a hundred but it shouldn't be your voice. It should not be your voice at all. Like yeah yeah go ahead no no no no no we can it's because we're so passionate about it. We're so excited in yeah yeah yeah no but if I wanted to say hey what are some points that I should put in an email to a college coach and give you some bullets and it gives you some ideas that is totally acceptable to say write an email to this college coach no you know that's the line and again I think people are just under trying to understand what the line is to me that is the the the line difference yeah um of of what you should be and I coaches would rather see a spelling mistake in there than feel like your AI wrote it for you.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

Right. Well and I'll tell you guys this too for all my incoming players anybody that is even interested I have them fill out a questionnaire and the questions are not things you can fake right and I can I can tell if you try because they're very specific to that player and that experience like tell me a time that you faced adversity in a hockey game and that you had to to get through that or what does trust mean to you now if you send me the base definition of trust I know you didn't do the work right what does it mean to you so uh these are things that we do as coaches to to you know see what you're worth right I want you to put the time in and here's the thing it doesn't mean I need a five page answer some athletes give me a very long in-depth answer appreciate that I also appreciate if you can say it in a few words and have the same impact there's no right or wrong with that I'm not picking one over the other but I just think it's an important piece of this that you're bringing up that this is a two-way street uh I will mention too in hockey you know we have live barn and the other video services parents I'll remind you uh now again I'm pretty reserved when I'm watching a game typically I'm on the bench but I've had other parents text me when I'm watching a game saying I can hear you on the live barn feed it's not that I'm saying anything bad they just they can hear me and they're letting me know I can hear you. You never know when you're standing next to that microphone or that camera. You better be smart in the stands when you're talking especially if you're ripping on the coach.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

I know Mike Benelli goes on there all the time let's see what these people are saying about my defensive side in my email me today I'm just looking at my wife I just sit my I just sit my wife in the stands you sit right here honey you sit right here's a new world when you go into a rink and you have to look and say okay where's the camera where's the microphone where am I at you know I think it's just uh but again this goes for parents as well I mean it's just right you know and players listen there's so you're and that's so that's what's so uh you know concerning right and really we have to be aware of that like one moment in a game can sway somebody's decision of you and again it's not like you have to you know the bottom line is you do have a microscope on you whether we like it or not there's there's times when you're gonna make a decision and they're saying ah damn it like that's there forever. And I think that's you know Kirsten to your point like about social media it used to be scrub the thing down to nothing and now it's like well just make it look great like this just or or just be whoever you are and I think the coaches in this world that can adapt to that and understand that this is an ever changing environment where you know it's uh I don't want I don't want to use the right word I want to use the right word but like the players have the power like the players there's no longer the coach says you do it my way or that's it. Now it's like hey listen you can produce for me you can do whatever way you want as long as you're taking care of the things you need to take care of you know on your end. Right. I think that's just where the nuance of recruiting and understanding what coaches are looking for, what colleges are looking for uh but I think you know you said it earlier it really does start with how what base are you setting up from the day you know they get into athletics and if it's you know when they're eight nine ten years old one of the things you're doing because ultimately and especially in hockey right everybody becomes a beer leader. Like no matter what your career ends. And I think some some of us it ends early and some some people it ends later but at the end of the day like all the things you're talking about about the process of recruiting still help you with the process of life right so I think this is where um it's so important just to understand all these pieces.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

Yeah Kirsten I I I want to say this to the audience real quick. So it's important the audience understands this uh Kirsten owns a company called Twoadays I mentioned that in the open uh this episode is not a sponsored episode and the reason we kept it this way is because you created such an amazing tool. Kirsten also said before the episode I want the audience to hear this she says as long as I come on and just give great information that's my goal. That's our goal too but we do want to make sure we talk about what you've created because it is such an amazing resource and a tool and obviously if you've gotten to this point of the episode which you have uh it's something you're gonna want to look into. So Kirsten tell us a little bit about two days why you created it and and how it is such a tool to help athletes through this decision making process.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Yeah absolutely so um I I started it in college um as a class project with a couple other athletes and I was the only one that continued it post college but uh essentially it's like rate my professor but for college coaches. So you kind of and it's like all athletic staff too. So I mentioned the athletic director thing you can go on rate athletic directors see what their deal is like a lot of times you get like oh this athletic director goes to as many games as they possibly can for all the sports they're a cheerleader like people want to want that support from from you know all the staff. And then it's also facilities and campus visits. So if somebody had a good visit at the school but maybe didn't end up going there but they want to show you know some kudos and the reverse. And one of the things that we're working on now too is calling out good coaches that don't have a lot of resources. So maybe programs that don't have a ton of money can't get out there. We're starting a whole series where we're starting to talk about really good coaches that are maybe just are at underrated programs. So for us that's like how we started and a lot of our resources are free in the sense of looking at the whole school you could do like a specific view just for hockey how is the program doing revenue versus expense and what majors do they offer what is the potential earning for the student athletes post-college from that specific school with a specific major and just try to give as much information as possible to the student athletes and we do have a a subscription you can sign up one-on-one but we actually primarily deal with teams and they kind of buy for their team so um we work with a couple uh programs in the USPHL um and I'm talking hockey specifically but we also work with high schools they come on pay for the service for their student athletes and it kind of is an offering to the student athletes like I said you could also sign up one off but my goal from the start of this was keep everything free to low cost make sure that the barrier to entry is low for the student athletes because you're already spending enough money time energy but especially money on the sport itself so how can we help people make better and more informed decisions in a way where you know you're not spending on an advisor or needing to feel like you have to do those things. And like I said we just really try to give as much information as possible and we answer people's questions all the time if people ever message us on uh on any social platform, send us an email, we'll we'll usually get back to them as long as we can answer the question. And we have you know a ton of people that we reach out to that are subject matter experts specifically to those sports. And you know we if we can't answer it with our own staff we usually outsource the answer and we'll say hey so and so you know said you want to do X, Y, and Z for this specific thing. And we get a lot of questions on like eligibility, uh transfer portal, things changing with you know everything to do with NIL. So those are some questions that we consistently get an answer for the student athletes and parents.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

Yeah Kirsten I'm I'm laughing because the amount of decisions that were made in my life using Rate My Professor would probably astonish people. It's a major part of my decision making process and it by the way it's not just like this professor's really hard it could be like this professor's never here or this professor doesn't is only here because of a grant doesn't really care. Yeah but this reinforces the point that Mike made a couple minutes ago uh is that the landscape has changed quite a bit. So I'll say I'll say two things here one is that for the for the parents for the students what a resource right a tremendous resource that didn't exist 30 years ago 20 years ago. From a coaching side uh Mike said it like you the iron fist approach really is not gonna make it much farther if it if it's still out there at all. Like like I enjoy for me personally the the relationships that I get to have with my student athletes and my players from the sense of a mentorship standpoint. All right like to me that's part of my job is helping these athletes become the best versions of themselves. Like like you can call the Ted Lasso approach if you want. I just think that's the direction we're heading it doesn't mean there's a lack of discipline it doesn't mean I'm not hard on my players it's just a different approach right so I look at two it's like and I go man that's a great platform for people to learn about me as a coach and it helps them understand the type of player that I'm looking for too right because it's just honest feedback from players about coaches right yeah I'm sure it's not going to be perfect but just a tremendous resource there in Kirsten way to go on making that thank you yeah and and we work with coaches all the time I mean especially recently we've been getting up been getting hit up by coaches saying hey I got this good rating can you guys do a feature on me or I'd love to do an interview with you like we have we work with coaches a lot.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Now we also have coaches that are not a fan of us but you know that comes with the territory we're in a controversial space sure you know there's glassdoor people can go rate me but people aren't like you know showing up to watch me work like you know like you do with sports you know so sports are passionate.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

I will say this though like uh everyone's experience is different I have players that want me to be harder on them than other players uh they want the hard hard feedback and they want me to give that feedback to them in a in a not an abrasive way but like just tell it to me hard you know I give it to me and then I also have athletes that that's not the approach that they want. So I think that like what could be perceived as negative feedback for one athlete might not be negative for another and vice versa.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

All right managing relationships. It's a hard job there you go coaching is so hard but I think one after you know all the hundreds of thousands of athletes that we've talked to it all comes down to intent and trust. So yeah sure this coach yelled at me but I trusted the fact that their intent was good because you know even though they yelled at me and you know maybe they said something that hit a little home and whatever but I needed that at the time and I'm fine with that. When the line gets crossed into the bad ratings and the bad feedback it's this person didn't have my back they didn't help me they also yelled at me and I just felt like I didn't want to even go to practice every single day. So I think as long as a you're a coach that is saying hey I know I'm being hard on you but here's why or you know I want you to do well and I think you know you have to do X, Y, and Z. Like as long as you make yourself known and have your intentions very clear to the student athletes, they can then understand hey, okay, this is where coach is from coming from maybe I agree, maybe I don't but you know what at least I have the information. A lot of times when coaches aren't giving that context I feel like that's kind of when things get a kid sitting there letting their head spin and like well they hate me and this and that and that might not be the case but that's how they're feeling because they don't have any context to go along with it.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

Yeah communication is is everything. Here's an this has been a great episode you shared some insane insight and as I said in the open doesn't matter how old your kid is you can use this information to your advantage but uh that that is our time.

SPEAKER_04 58:33

Mike Christy anything before I close this important parents academics really does need to come first. You know it and ask your kid before they make that final decision if hockey were to disappear tomorrow would you still choose this college is this the best place for you to become not just the best athlete but the best person and will it have a path to where you eventually you know want to be and what you want to become really important. Oh Kirsten you were fantastic. Thank you so much such important guidance at a time that could be really daunting for parents and a student athlete so thank you.

SPEAKER_02 59:11

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

This is awesome all right gang that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey if you want to learn more about two it's just check them out online or we've got her name up there it's at twoadays underscore ratings on social media. But for Mike Vanelli for Christy Cash Anna Burns for Kristen Syrers awesome name uh uh I'm Leah Lias we'll see you on the next episode of Our Kids Play Hockey take care everybody we hope you enjoyed this edition of our kids play hockey make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening whether it's a podcast network a social media network or our website our kidsplayhockey calm also make sure to check out our children's book When Hockey Stops at when hockey stops dot com it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life we're very proud of it but thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode.