Our Girls Play Goalie: The Journey Isn’t Linear - How Aerin Frankel Became Team USA’s Backbone

 Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to Our Girls Play Goalie. First time I'm ever saying that, a special hybrid edition today that you are not going to want to miss. I'm Lee Elias, joined by Haley Scamurra and Mike Benelli, and today's guest is one of the most dominant goaltenders in the world. Boy, it is glad to say that. Also one of the most compelling development stories in the game. Grew up in New York playing boys hockey before leaving home to attend Shattuck St. Mary's. From there, she went on to Northeastern University where she won the two thousand twenty one. Patty Kazmaier award is a top player in women's college hockey. She's played several world championships, won multiple gold medals, became backbone of Team USA and just brought home an Olympic gold medal with Haley in Italy in two thousand twenty six. This is really fun to read. She's only five five and she was told probably a lot that she's too small. But now she's one of the most feared goaltenders in the world. I wrote world. I probably should have put universe. And today we're going to talk about the journey, youth hockey setbacks, resilience, belief and what it really takes to build a career in this game. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming Olympic gold medalist Aerin Frankel to the show. Aerin, welcome to our girls play goal. Thanks, Lee. I'm excited to be here and chat with you all. Yeah, no, I'm excited to have you here as well. And again, we've been joking a lot, Erin, that I'm getting a little too giddy in these opens, but it's really fun to read these types of things. But what I'm excited to talk to you about, and especially for the audience listening, is we always talk about the hockey journey is not a linear path. And while we all know you now, your journey to getting to where you are today is one we can really all learn from so i want to start out kind of with that you know origin story if you grew up playing boys hockey for years before heading to shaddock um how did that shape your compete level and your game awareness and also like for the parents listening uh what did that mixed competition build in you Yeah, I think everyone's youth hockey journey is a little bit differently. You know, there's no correct route. For me, it made sense to play boys youth hockey. It was really close to home and a rink I was growing up learning how to skate in. So for me, playing for, you know, the Westchester Vipers in New York was a no-brainer being so close to home. And I think It really helped me at that age to play with the boys. And I think I had other options to go and drive further and play for girls programs. But for my family and I, it just made the most sense to start there. And I only ever played for that youth youth organization and had a lot of fun there. And, yeah, have a lot of coaches to thank along the way who were a part of the Westchester Vipers as well. How did you like decide to go to Shattuck? I feel like that's a huge question we get a lot of the times from like parents, like how, you know, how do we know if that's like the right move? Like, did you bring it up? Did they bring it up? Like, how did that kind of come about for you? yeah i was like pretty hockey crazy i would say when i was like um around high school age like my eighth grade year um and my even my ninth grade year i was at home in new york still playing boys youth hockey and i just wanted to i told my parents i just want to play the most amount of games possible like where can i go where should i go what's the best option for me to play and a lot of the new england prep schools that we were looking at were like so awesome especially academically they were, you know, such well-known schools, but they only played, like, a thirty-game season, and they also did, like, the split season with, um, you know, whatever, your U-sixteen team, your U-eighteen team, and for me, I was, like, looking at Shattuck because I knew they played So I was just excited for that. That's awesome. It kind of sounds like you led the way in that for sure. Yeah, my parents were not honestly overly excited at the time about sending their fourteen year old off to Minnesota. But I convinced them I was very persistent and I told them they could visit a lot. Yeah, I mean, so I'm a proud alum. So I built the Westchester Skating Academy back in the nineties. And I think, you know, watching players like you and Abby Ives and and all the – like the Shattenkirks of the world and all these players in New York, that Westchester area. I'll call it the tri-state area, Lee. But I think it's basically the amount of development that you were able to get at this early age playing – Again, because that really as you grew up, there wasn't really a lot of just girls hockey programs that we talk a lot about on the show. And I think an interesting piece about your journey is that the goaltending level, it's probably even less important. Don't you think? Like, I mean, do you think you've gained the benefits of playing with the boys just because Basically, in your developmental years, they were probably stronger. The shots were probably heavier. And there was probably just more opportunities for you not to have to travel to go find a girls team somewhere. Yeah, I definitely agree with you on that. I mean, neither of my parents played hockey, so it was kind of new to all of us, like what this correct route was or what I should do, who I should play for. And I think we just kind of settled on the fact that I was having so much fun being with the boys. And I loved going on the road to tournaments. And I had so many close friends on that team that it was like, why would I leave something so great? Obviously, I started there when I was only six or seven years old. But we kind of had that same core that started together as mites and squirts. We played almost all of us together until we were bantams, until we went away in our different directions. So it just seemed like everything was... So nice there. And it was a great setup that it just made sense to stay. Yeah. So I think, I think going into my, my actual question probably then would be, you know, you probably didn't have to face a lot of adversity until you got to Shattuck. It's like, you probably, you probably were in a place where you're the best goalie in the building. I'm sure everybody wanted you to stay, you know, you're just like, okay, well, I just, we really liked this girl. She's really good. She doesn't need to go anywhere, but now here you are transitioning to Shattuck and having a, you know, a more competitive, uh, opportunity and then you go and get cut from the like so I when I and I'll preface this by saying you get cut from the twenty twenty two Olympic team which already is unbelievable that you're even in the in the discussion of being trying out for the twenty twenty two Olympic team I'm just wondering you know what did that piece of that adversity do for you you know as you now had to say well listen I know I could play at this level all the naysayers are talking about height and the level of play and where I'm at Like what, what was the driving force in the positive way that you learned or took, you know, for being cut from that team? I think it was disappointing for sure, but I knew I was still really young and in, you know, the middle of my hockey career. And I obviously then set my goals on the next opportunity to be at the Olympics, which is twenty twenty six. And I kind of used it as motivation. I took the feedback that I got from all the coaches there and I really took it to heart and like worked with my coaches back home and I was like, hey, I want to check these boxes like of X, Y, Z, what they gave me to work on so that maybe next time I'm not in this situation. But I also took with me a lot of experience, like the nerves I felt in twenty twenty two. I haven't felt since then, you know, like I remember feeling that nervous. And then since then, I haven't I haven't felt that nervous because getting that experience of being at that Olympic tryouts and just the competitive environment that it is and at times stressful, it helped me navigate this Olympic experience. Aerin, I want to say, I love that you brought this up. There's this funny quote, again, I'm a geek, right? In one of the Avengers movies where one of the characters, I know Haley always laughs when I bring this up. I've joked, we should call her Skamora Gamora for those of you out there who knows what I'm talking about. Here's this lady in the galaxy. Anyway, there's this great moment where the bad guy asks a character, you know, like if you consider failure experience, right? And he says, I consider experience, experience. Right. And I love that you brought that up because I think for a lot of young players, they view what many people would call a quote unquote failure, like not making the team as just that it's failure. And it's not. It's experience. You were there. You felt the feelings. You understood what it was to both not make the team and make the team. But all of that is experience to prepare you. So can you talk to maybe like the families, right, about especially the kids that listen to the show, about how like the path is not all wins. All right. You have to experience both to get to where you want to be. Yeah, and I think it's important to acknowledge the fact that there will be disappointment and frustration, and that's just normal. And obviously, when you care so much about something and you put so much training into it, you're going to experience disappointment. It would almost be weirder if you didn't. So just processing those emotions, knowing that's normal, and then kind of flipping the page to what you can do next to move in the direction of your goals. And for me, it was just... like to keep playing hockey and keep having fun with the sport and trying to work on the things that I was told I could improve on. And at the time, I agreed, I think, with all of it. I was just like, yeah, honestly, so fair. So I think a lot of my development happened between twenty twenty two and twenty twenty six. Awesome. Um, you know, for you, obviously, like people have talked about your height and stuff. Like, was there a time in your career, like where you realized that like people were kind of using that against you as a goalie? And then did you kind of develop anything, um, either technically or mentally to kind of help you to thrive and like use that to your advantage? Yeah, I think I first remember kind of like hearing about that, like during the college recruitment process, like, um, like, when I would talk to coaches and stuff, like, they would make comments, like, you're just on the smaller side, and, like, we need to be, like, sure that, like, you know, you're making up for it in other ways kind of thing, and I think that's also really why, like, I fell in love with Northeastern and the idea of playing for Coach Flint, because he saw other aspects of my game that he thought were more important, kind of going off your question, like, my competitiveness and, like, skating ability, like, two things that I am always working on I think have helped me maybe like make up for lack of size and I think just I never really like let it get to me because I kind of was just like so what like obviously being on the smaller side is is what it is but like I always saw other smaller players having so much success like Kendall and there was just so many that I was just like yeah I mean it's a different position but I don't think it's ever really held anyone back so that was kind of my mindset. I want to say too, Aerin, real quick. We know a lot of, especially goaltenders, that are under this belief now that, oh, you have to be six-five to even be considered. And look, you're one of them. There's several goalies that have proven that to be untrue. So I love that you're talking about how that came up internally, right? I just love how chill you are with it. It's like, nah, that wasn't going to hold me back, right? How would you explain that calmness to youth players that think, man, if I'm not six, five, I'm never going to make it. Um, I think I would just say like that, like my confidence comes obviously like from within yourself. And like, I put a lot of, um, emphasis on my preparation. So like I knew I was working really hard and in practice and, working on my game so that I didn't think my size was ever going to be an issue because I was putting in extra work. And I don't know if I didn't, if my size would have been an issue or how else it could have gone. But like, I just think not focusing on it was almost better for me. It was like, I'm just going to work on all these other things that I know I need to do to be successful. And hopefully the rest will like take care of itself. What I love about that is talk a lot about limiting beliefs. right and that you did not allow that to become a limiting belief and i think that with a lot of youth players today and i hear it from them like well i i can't do this because of this and it's like yeah if you think that way you're definitely not going to do it Right. So so, you know, I just think it's important to hear what Aerin said there, kids like that. You know, you put the work in. It's simple. Haley has talked about this on numerous shows. You have to put the work in. It doesn't that you don't don't let these limiting beliefs stop you. And Haley, I'm sure I'm sure you were told we have we've had conversations about this, like you're not good enough or you can't make it. So you can't allow those limiting beliefs to hold you back. I'm wondering, Aerin, too, just based off of what advice you would give to an undersized goalie going through the goalie coaching search. A lot of these goalie coaches now have become very cookie-cutter. They're just like, okay... Big kid, play this way. I'm going to fit you into the net as opposed to take your athletic ability and then build my development structure around you. You know, what kind of advice would you give to a to a, you know, a twelve, fourteen, sixteen year old? women's hockey goalie on, you know, how to not let yourself get, you know, put into the same undersized, you know, in our case, like just in a place where, you know, you can still get the development out of your coaching staff without having to try to fit somebody else's mold. I think the goalie coaches that I gravitated towards most were ones that accepted me for my style and my size and just wanted to work within that and help me be the best goalie that I could be. And I was really lucky to have so many great goalie coaches along the way and none of them mean i i think over over the years yeah they've referenced me being on the smaller side but they never like said well because you're small you have to play this way or um because you're small like you're gonna struggle with this and like i think that's why like i gained more confidence in myself is because i had those positive influences and i think um if you have a coach that's not you know being positive and and pumping you up then maybe it's just not a good fit and um i think yeah like I said I was really lucky to have coaches that just wanted to focus more on like taking me as a goalie and helping me get better and obviously can't control size so that was not really ever a problem yeah and the reason you're so good is that it's like your instincts like she's just naturally instinctual on plays and athletic and she attacks the puck like she doesn't like let it come to her like she's always attacking so I just feel like it was super important for you to have coaches that, you know, cultivated that within you and didn't try to like hold you back and change your style. So I think that's a huge kind of piece to focus on there. Yeah. And like goal, like goaltenders is like such a niche kind of thing. And, but you see it with forwards and defensemen too, like the size conversation or other things. So I think, yeah, we all have dealt with it, but obviously for goalies, it's just, yeah, we're a special breed. So I want to fast forward to twenty twenty three. You're starting in five straight games at Worlds. Like I remember that moment. Like I was so excited for you. We were all so pumped after not really having played. So kind of wanted to just talk about like what was that difference in your mindset, in your preparation, your perspective from not making that Olympic team to then like you're starting all five games at a world championship. Yeah, I was definitely a little surprised to learn that I was going to be the starter at that Worlds, but I was really excited and I recall leaning on my teammates a lot. when I was nervous and a lot of them had been there before and had experience at the world championship level. So that was the biggest thing for me. It was just leaning on them and relying on their experience to help me because I was confident, you know, I had always practiced with these players and played in rivalry series before, but had never played at a world championship. So I think some normal nerves, but also just was really excited for the opportunity. I have to preface this next question here, Aerin, because we do have a very large Canadian viewership. Listen, to my friends in Canada, we are going to talk about the Olympics. I always feel like we have to preface this, though. And I mean this from the bottom of my heart. It is such an honor to play against Canada with the history of Hockey Canada. that our success in the last Olympics is, I always struggle with the words here, right? It's like, there's so much respect for Hockey Canada and what Hockey Canada has established. So please know when I gush, even in the open, how much respect I have for hockey, you know, above the border here, okay? But we have to bring this up, right? The Olympics just passed. Aerin, you had some amazing things happen at this Olympics. First shutout against Canada in the history, to my knowledge, of the Olympics from the USA. You know, not to mention, obviously, the gold medal. um i'm so interested in this whole journey seems to culminate in this moment obviously we've talked to haley about this too you seem so calm right were you in a flow state were you fighting adrenaline how much of that moment is years of preparation versus just being present i know haley has talked about just the aura of that team throughout the entire games of just the belief and the ability. And again, it is, I've dubbed it this, the most dominant Olympic performance in history, right? So from a position of you're in the net every game, did it just flow? Did you have to calm your nerves at times? Did the moment attack you? I mean, how did you compartmentalize that as the net minors? I had so much trust in our team. We had been getting better and better every single game and all the work that we put in over the last four years, I think, the result was kind of going to take care of itself. And we knew that we didn't really leave anything on the table. Like everyone away from the team was putting in extra work to be prepared. And you just kind of know that when you get back together with the group, that everyone's going to be ready to go. And it's such a nice feeling to not even have to worry about that. Like you just know everyone sitting in that locker room is prepared and we're all on the same page. And so from my perspective, obviously like being in the net, I just had so much, I just had so much faith in my teammates, and it was fun to play behind them. Now, Haley, I'm going to turn this to you, too, because I'm just some schmo that watched it on TV. You were not even just there. You were on the ice. So let me ask you this in an Olympic level. You mentioned that a little bit before. Can you talk about that trust that she just mentioned? Because obviously you had that trust in her. What is it? Oh, geez, how do I frame this question, right? It's like, can you even begin to describe what it's like to play in front of a world class goaltender as a world class player? there i don't know if there's words honestly like just like what she can do back there for us it's insane because then it just allows us to play more free uh but you know we give up like a really good chance in front of the net because we're playing so free we just know she's back there and staying calm i think that's also a huge asset in her game is like how calm she is back there um you can feel the calmness it resonates throughout the team And so when your goalie is like that, it helps you play your best hockey. And she's always like that back there for us. Like, honestly, she's one of the most chill goalies that I know. Like you can't, you can't get to her. She's hanging out before the game chat with everyone. Like she is just like cool as a cucumber. I will say that, at least in the modern era, that typically is the recipe, right? I think the days of Patrick Wallace throwing the benches and things like that have passed by. But I want to actually equate this to youth hockey because, especially with goaltenders, when I coach goaltenders, Aerin and Haley, I'm going to ask you your opinions on this, right? My belief is as the goalie goes, the team will go, all right? If a bad goal goes in and the goalie has a freak out, it's going to be very hard for us to mentally get back in that game. Adversely, if something happens and the goalie has, hey, you know what? Let's keep going. Let's keep playing. And I always tell those goalies, keep an even-keeled mindset, be the best teammate you can be on the ice, and make sure that for the players, we support that goaltender. So based on what you just both said about trust, calm, cool as a cucumber, You know, let's talk to that youth hockey audience, because this is a skill set that is completely ignored, I think, at the youth levels. It's all about stats, which makes no sense to me. Right. I've never seen great youth goalie stats that are accurate, by the way. Seventy five shots, one with twelve, one with none. That's only if the dad does the scoring. Right. So can you, we'll go, I'll go to both of you here. Aerin, I'll start with you. Think about like youth hockey groups as a team, right? Like how do you bring in that calmness? Where could they even start when you have like a rowdy bunch of kids in the locker room? Um, I think you touched on it a little bit, being a good teammate and how important that is. Like it's a contagious thing. Um, you know, when you're going out of your way to be nice to people and support each other and, um, I have to add how important it is to have that good relationship with your goalie partners too, because the most successful teams I've been on, there's been such good camaraderie between the goalies. And I think sometimes at a young age that, gets away from us a little bit because you get caught up in who's the starter and who's playing. But at the end of the day, I think regardless of the role you're in, your perspective and how you treat your teammates should never change. And I think, yeah, a good reminder is if you're in practice and you find yourself getting frustrated and emotional, then you're probably going to end a game as well. So just practicing, I guess, those good habits every day so that it translates to a game. I love that. I just want to mention this too because I know two youth goaltenders come to my mind right away where one of them was all about stats and one of them was not, almost like oblivious. And at some point in the season, the goalie that was about stats, good kid, by the way, just followed his stats, kind of got the other goalie to start looking at his stats. And guess what started to happen? He started playing worse because he was thinking about it, right? Oh, that's another – to my GAA, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. To me, that's, it's not, it wasn't done maliciously, but that's not being a great teammate in that situation. Right? Like, like the stats will take care of themselves. I think that's really important. Haley, I would love your thoughts on this too. Um, like in terms of like looking at stats. Yeah, no, no, no. Well, I meant like just more youth hockey and like creating that bond and how important that bond is to succeeding. Yeah, I think the bond is so important. And I think, you know, the team camaraderie piece, like looking back on youth hockey, like those are the favorite memories that you remember. And that's what you want to really cultivate within a team. And I think that comes from you know, hanging out in the locker room, hanging out at hotels, like playing knee hockey in the hallways of your hotel, you know, going to the pool. Like, I don't know, there was just so many memories that you kind of remember from that. And I think when you are closer off the ice, you see the translation on the ice. Like, that's usually the best teams are the ones that are the closest in the locker room. So I just think it's so important to cultivate. And that's my word of the month right now. It's that culture. When you watch the UCLA women's winning and you see the U.S. Olympic women's hockey team winning gold and you see these champions and the common theme across all these championship teams is positive self-talk. I will do this. Manifesting where they want to be. That happens as a team. And I guess on our little crossover episode here, Aerin, you know, from our girls play hockey and our girls play goalie. You know, how important that is in that aspect of that team, you know, aspect of when you get to the Olympic level. But do you think, and did you maybe, have this experience at the youth level where it wasn't just about how many camps I got to go to? How many, you know, weekend showcases do I need to go to? Who is my goalie partner? What's my hockey rankings? Don't you think we could spend all this other effort and time and investment on the culture of our teams? which would really end up where we want to be in the long run. Yeah. I mean, like scam said, I have so many memories from youth hockey, obviously some on the ice, but also so many that took place running around hotels and tearing up, you know, New England sports center in Marlboro. So there's a lot of memories that go, you know, that are way more impactful that are not related to stats or, or wins or losses. And I think that's an important thing for, for the kids to hear. And, Um, just having fun and enjoying it. Like, I think we're all playing our best when we're having fun and you want to be, you know, a pleasant person to be around. And I think the best teams are, are ones that have that kind of light carefree energy. And, um, I know the teams that I've been a part of, that's been, you know, one of my favorite things about the locker room is just, you know, everyone gets along and there's always good vibes and you can feel when there aren't too. So I think it's important, um, to yeah, celebrate it when you have a good culture. Yeah. I'm wondering when you go back to your youth hockey days, like if you had to right now, like you have all these parents listening, right? And they have their daughters. I want to be a goalie. I want to I want to do what Aerin Frankel did. That's unbelievable. Like, what would you what would you tell a parent right now to prioritize in their daughter or their son at that young age at nine, ten and eleven? Like, what would you prioritize? do you think to like to mold and, and, and build that, that, that goalie from scratch? Like what are some of the, what are some of the recommendations you might give, you know, based off your own experience and the experience of all these great teammates you've had? I think just controlling what you can control and staying present. Like I think we're all kind of guilty of wasting energy on things that are outside of our control. And you know, you look back on it and you're like, why did I care so much about that? tough game I played two weeks ago. Like you turn the page, you move on from it. So I think it's an important reminder to just try to put all your energy towards the things that you can control. And yeah, just having fun too. Like, I mean, that's why we play and that's why we all started. So if you're not having fun and you're not enjoying it, then kind of what's the point? Aerin, one of the exercises that I love to do with teams when I do team building is I'll draw this gigantic circle on a whiteboard, huge, as big as I can draw. And in the middle, I'll draw a really small circle, maybe just a little bit bigger than a puck. And I'll ask the team, tell me all the things that you have no control over. It could be hockey. And it's like weather, politics, referees, opponents. And it's like you could go forever. Right. Traffic. And I get them to really list these things. Right. And then I have them list in the small little circle. OK, tell me the things you actually do control. And in some form, it always comes down to three things. Your effort, your mindset and your diet and diet can consist of food and information. and i tell them that is it it's it's actually quite small the things you control and i said the sobering thought and i'm telling this to the audience too right is that a majority of people don't just spend some time worrying about what they don't control they spend a lifetime worrying about what they don't control parents listening think about when you drive how angry you might get at things you don't control. Or if it's raining outside, there's people who are like, oh, it's raining outside. You have no control over the weather, right? I'm not saying you gotta love the rain, don't get me wrong, all right? But if you can only focus, if you can make that small circle your entire universe, it is life changing. And I'm not, you know, just talking about hockey right now. Right. So when I, when we coach young people, it's like, Hey, don't worry about your last shift over. It's done. All right. Same thing with my son's a goaltender. I've been asked so many times, how are you so calm as a goalie parent? I'm like, cause the puck's going to go in the net from time to time. And I'm like hyper aware that that's going to happen and it's okay. It's not the end of the world because all that matters is what's happening right now. Right. So I love that you said that. And I'm also getting on a soapbox here because like every top athlete we talk to says these things. Focus on the things you can control. That's it. It's a simple philosophy. Very hard to implement. But you got to practice like most things. I catch yourself being upset that it's snowing outside or too hot or too cold or whatever you want. All right. I'm going to change gears here. There's gonna be a little bit of a two part question. And I'll ask the first part like this. We had talked to Haley and I really can't wait to get your perspective on this. One of the unique things about this season, particularly, and we're in the twenty five, twenty six season. It's first time ever. Professional women's hockey, PWHL hockey coincides with the Olympics. And both of you have talked about the camaraderie of your team. Well, in the past, you've had a six month run up to the Olympics where you're together all the time, playing all the time. And now it's it's a lot different. You're playing on different teams. You're in different cities. You have the rivalry tour. You have a little bit of a training camp for the Olympics, but it's nothing like it was in years past. So how did the camaraderie. And the team cohesiveness, survive that, knowing that, and we'll talk about it in a minute, that you're competing against each other as much as you're playing with each other. I think personally, when I was in other markets, I would grab coffee or grab dinner with teammates to stay connected and checking in with them. But I think we always knew that everyone was kind of doing their work at the rink, even in their respective markets. So that was never a concern. And then obviously, when we went to these training camps, we did some fun stuff together as a team. golf tournament, like a scramble. We went to a concert, like we're just doing a lot of fun things together and enjoying the time that we had. And, you know, I have a few teammates from the US team on my Boston team. So also get to spend all year round with them. But it's definitely hard when you don't have that six month build up, like you said, but taking advantage of the time that we did have together. Yeah, and I love that you mentioned your team because we're going to go into that in a second. And it's funny. You go back to Boston. You've got some teammates there. Haley has to go back to Montreal, stare Poulin in the eye every night as a teammate, right? It's just an interesting – and obviously, I'm sure there's nothing but respect there, Haley. Hanks her gold medal at her stall. You know, I get it. I get it. Like in Montreal, right? Actually, I heard you got a pretty warm welcome back there, which is pretty cool. But let's have some fun here because I want to echo what you just said about meeting teammates for dinner. When we're recording this, which is mid-April, Haley's on Montreal. Aerin, you're in Boston. You guys are fighting for the top of the league positioning right now, and your games against each other are pretty legendary. All right? And you're on a podcast together right now, and you can tell you guys are great friends. I mean, it's, it's an amazing lesson in both humility, teamwork, but also the type of competitors that you are. Okay. And so like, you know, when your teammates, obviously you're locked in, you're trying to accomplish something together, but now you're in the PWHL rivals, like extreme rivals, like you're both trying to win this year. what is that energy shift like um and then i do i know you talked about this a little bit i do want you to talk about how you separate friendship from competition because i think that i i always love the answers we get to that because i think it does shock the young kids that play about how those two things can exist so let's talk about what is that energy shift like you guys are going to face off against each other soon right how do you how do you do that Erin, I'll start with you, sorry. Yeah, well, I think just, you know, I love scams, and the bond that you have, like, representing your country with someone is something that will, like, last a lifetime, and we have so many shared experiences together, and I think it's a lot of fun. Although I'd rather play with my U.S. teammates than against them, it's... our games are incredible against Montreal and other teams in this league. So that's what makes sports so fun is especially with this pro league is that, you know, you're, there's going to be constant roster movements and we have no idea what our team's going to look like year to year, just because of how fast we're expanding. So I think it's just, Yeah, being grateful for how fun, like, our games are and the rivalry that we have and that it exists. It's cool and should be celebrated. And then when we get to put on the jersey together, just enjoying that, too. Ellie, I'm going to ask you as well. It's a two-person question. I mean, it was definitely really hard, like, right after the Olympics. Like, I think first game back, like, that was definitely a weirder shift. I'm like, oh, I have to hit you. Like, oh, man, like, this is crazy. But then, like... I love that you get, I have to hit you. It's happening. I'm coming. But then as the games have gone on, it's gotten better. And then, like, with Erin, obviously, like, I'll go to the net front and I can smile at her. Like, you just kind of share that, like, moment together. Like, obviously, I'm not checking Erin, you know, but I'm, you know, trying to score on her. But... she'd blocker me it's all right but uh yeah or her team would come in and hit me pretty good so uh no it's it's honestly like really fun to play against your friends I think um if you look at it in that way and I think I actually liked what you have said before Lee is that it's like a sign of respect to play your hardest and if you're not playing your hardest against your friends you're doing a disservice so it's like I've actually been using that a lot because I think there were times where maybe I wouldn't want to know play hard against them necessarily but i think uh now it's like no that's my game i'm a physical player like that's what you're gonna get and like that's why you love me on your team and you might not like me when i'm playing against you and that's kind of the fun of it right but you know i remember i shared a moment with meg keller like i was not front someone was attacking me she kind of like yanked my jersey back a little she goes love you So you can like have those fun little moments, right? Where it's like, you're still playing intense with each other. I was still for checking her hard and playing physical against her. But then, you know, there's moments after the whistle where you can kind of like laugh it off a little bit, you know? So. I think it's a great, I think it's a great lesson for, for athletes to know at the youth level and the non, professional level that you can be competitive but also be empathetic like you can be in a situation where you know you can battle and to you know to uh you know lee's point too that you can respect the person you're playing against and they should respect you enough to know that listen i'm out here i want to win like that's what i love about you i want to win like i'm not my job is to win this game and again there and it does you know i think when you watch Certain levels of hockey, you know, depending on where the competition is and where the game is and how much time's left and what the game means in the scheme of things. Some people like, you know, lose their minds for a little bit. But I think at the end of the day, you come back to breathing. It's over. The game ends. And that's the beauty. I think that's why people outside of the sport of hockey, it's so hard for them to understand that. that two groups of individuals just tried to kill each other and then they have a handshake at the end. And then they probably go on to dinner right afterwards. So it's a really hard concept for people not in the sport of hockey to get the fact that you can compete this hard And, you know, Lee was saying earlier, right, Aerin, is like like you're like you're in the Olympics. And this year in particular, everyone in the Olympics was probably playing pro, too. Like they're all on this on these teams. So it's such a different dynamic. But it really just shows, you know, how much you can be a competitor and have some great sportsmanship at the same time. And that's the beauty about, you know, being in our sport. i'm going to pull the throw on this just a little bit more because i really want the youth players listening to understand you know one of the things i realized as i got older is i was extremely competitive growing up just i still am but just in a more mature way i guess you could say but i remember the opponents that i don't want to use the word hate it's too strong but the opponents i really wanted to beat like i really had a grudge I got older and I realized, man, and they wanted that against me too. That sharpened me. Like that made me a better player. And so now when I look back at it, when I think there was a lot of anger there as a kid, it's like, man, like without that opponent, I don't think I would be as good as I am today. We drove each other, even though we didn't like each other, we drove each other. And I think if I saw, if I saw some of these people now, like I want to take them out to coffee and talk about those, those dates. And I think what's really such a great example from YouTube, right. Is that this, and this scenario could very well happen a moment where Haley may have a breakaway on Aerin. It is absolutely plausible that that could happen. And what's amazing about YouTube is that it's, I know Haley wants to score on you, Aerin, as much as you want to stop Haley. Excuse me. And there's no other way you two would want it, right? And Haley, you kind of alluded to it. It would be almost disrespectful. It would be disrespectful if she didn't give you her best, right? And vice versa. Excuse me. Young athletes, you can duplicate this. And at the end of the day, and this is where I'm trying to get to, this comes from a place of gratitude, right? I want your best because it's going to make me better. And I'm thankful for that. I have found that, kids, to be more of a motivator than negative emotion. And I'm going to say it again. Negative emotion can give you a little boost for a very short amount of time. I call it hulking up. But it fizzles away very quickly. Whereas gratitude is eternal. It's ongoing. It doesn't stop. Right. It's not always easy, but it doesn't stop. Right. And no, I'm not saying you should say, oh, I'm so thankful we lost this game. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying find the learning in that situation. Right. And you can be thankful for that. So I just I'm saying this because I'm a fan of both of you. I'm amazed by the level that you and all the other women in this league do that. right because the league continues to grow women's hockey continues to grow i wanted to talk about this too i wrote this down the the attendance record has been broken like four times this season right um sold out game at msg sold out game in washington Aerin i'm sure you've been in a few as well right when it's happening as often as it is and we're stealing, you know, I'm going to call it, I don't want to call it glass ceiling, but the standard is rising and rising and rising. How do you both like compartmentalize that? Is it exciting? Is it got to keep it going? Is there a seriousness to that? Is there a responsibility to that? Is it all of that? Because I don't remember any kind of a growth of a league like this. And I'm talking in all sports, right? This is fast growing and popular. Aerin, I'll start with you again. This is a monumental year in women's sports and women's hockey. Yeah, I think we all knew that this was the landscape that was eventually going to come into fruition. It was just a matter of time and all the work put in behind the scenes to get the CBA in place and to get all the details squared away for this league and I think now it's just a matter of enjoying it and you touched a little bit on the responsibility and I think we all have responsibility to be professionals and perform our best and also be good representatives of this of this league and I think so many of our players do give back into the community and go out of their way to do a lot of things in their market which also helps continue to grow women's hockey and I think The fans that come to our games, they always come back. I think once they come, they realize kind of what the lure is and how fun it is. And it's exciting. And I think also a unique part of the PWHL is like a lot of our players have such great personalities off the ice. And I think it's awesome to see like the fans want to learn about you as a person. And I think it's just there's so much momentum in women's sports and we're going to keep trying to build it. Are you telling me that hockey players with personalities is a good thing? Is that what you're trying to say after all these years? I love that. You know, Haley, I want to ask you, too, because, again, it's funny. I feel like every time we do an episode, some other record has been broken. Actually, I'm going to ask this a little bit differently. Do you get – jealous isn't the right word, but when you see that, are you like, well, I'm going to get the next one. I want to be at the next record-breaking game. I mean, I was definitely jealous of Madison Square Garden a little bit. I think I also got emotional watching that one. I thought that was there was something just special about seeing that because we had also been there years ago with the PWHPA showcase when it was COVID and no one could come to the game. And that's when we were fighting for a league. So to see us. sell out Madison Square Garden with all the work that got put in. That was like five years of us playing showcases, like not playing actual professional hockey like that is mind boggling. And now we're here. And so I think that was a really huge full circle moment. TD Garden, we just played at unreal like I think it was just so fun to play at like a home rink of someone. Like, so for Boston, like they did our starting lineups and we're getting booed. I'm like, this is so cool. Like, this is amazing, you know? So it's just like not taking those moments for granted. And it's all excitement though. I don't, there's no like pressure in any way. Cause it's like, we've been here, this is what we've been doing. And now people are just realizing it and they're getting addicted to coming to games and things like that. So yeah. um it's all exciting and it's wonderful and we're very grateful for it but yeah we want to keep pushing and keep growing more i love it and look i like to say things like this because there's always idiots out there selling out madison square garden is not an easy thing to do all right selling out any nhl arena where it's not the nhl team is not an easy thing to do twenty thousand tickets is a lot, all right? And not only has the PWHL done that, I think like six times this year or something crazy like that, they continue to do it. And the reason I'm bringing that up, and again, this is a positive, not a negative, is that this is year three and it's just growing and growing and growing. This is not a fluke. You know, you hear that crap out there. I'm like, no, no, no. This would have fizzled out a while ago if it was a fluke. It's not. The game is growing. And here's the other thing, and I'm going to pay you two a compliment on this one. We watch the games at home. All right. We my daughter, my son, my wife and myself. It is a family affair. You're not just growing women's hockey. You're growing hockey. Right. And when the game grows, it's good for everybody. All right. And again, you can attribute that to everyone involved. And I think it's amazing. So I'm going to say it as the host and as a hockey coach and as a dad. Thank you for that. I love that my son knows the teams and he wants to watch. Same thing with my daughter. I also love that my daughter is now living in a world, Haley has heard me say this, where playing professional hockey is the norm. Not a dream. It's like, oh, I could do that one day. She said that to me. And I'm like, yeah, you could do that because she's seen it. And you are always trailblazing every time you take the ice, ladies. And it's like, thank you. As a hockey person, thank you for doing that. We're coming up on time here. So I'm going to go around the horn here if anybody has any final questions, because I am taking up most of the oxygen here. And Mike is smiling at me. So, Mike, do you have something to say? No, no. Listen, this is the kind of stuff that gets you like you like. I think people that are new to the women's game and, you know, certainly Aerin Moore. Right. Then Haley, we're like. like Erin's in, it came into an era where, you know, when she went to college, she was like, you could actually play pro. Like you could go to college and go play pro. Where like these, like when I was with, I mean, I distinctly, like as you're, you know, Hallie, as you're mentioning, you know, just, you know, Madison Square Garden and I refer to it the Fleet Center, but the TD Garden. But when you're referring to these places, I mean, I was on the bench with the Connecticut Whale on the coaching staff and I could hear people speaking behind me in like the seventeenth row of the Danbury Ice Arena. So for that to go from there in a very short period of time, we're not talking decades. We're talking about like like like just the span of a player playing in college, basically, that you could see that shift and that change. It really does make it really just. grows the impact even more about how important it is to continue to do those things and not rest on the fact that you know we've reached this pinnacle it's just a but there's a lot of pressure with that too it's just an ongoing you know drive to to to find the next level of where women's hockey can go and hopefully we're seeing that filter down to how much better can we get the girls game to a point where we're producing great professional world-class athletes right here and then filling these rosters. So it is wild, and it's really cool to watch both of you being in the lifespan of this thing happening and watching it grow from a non-women's professional hockey player perspective. Haley, any final thoughts from you? No, just thank you so much for coming on, Aerin. I really appreciate it and love playing with you and kind of like playing against you. After the season, you can talk. Thank you guys for having me. It was a lot of fun. No, and I'll say it to all the listeners. Again, we're recording this in mid-April. Both teams qualified for the playoffs on here, Montreal and Boston. And, yeah, maybe we'll have to do a postseason episode. But, man, I cannot wait to see where you both, to be fair, go from here. But, Aerin, you specifically, thank you so much for taking the time to come on here and talk to us. I know a lot of our audience looks up to you and believes in you and what you're doing out there. So thanks for being here. Thanks, Lee. I appreciate it. You're welcome. Okay, that's going to do it for this edition of Our Girls Play Goalie, the first type of episode we've ever done like that. Remember, if you have any questions for us, you can email us at teamatourkidsplayhockey.com or a new feature if you go to the link accompanying this episode in the description and click on that. You can write us a message. We can write you back. You can even leave a voice message, and we'll talk about that on the episode or just talk back to you one-on-one if that's what you're looking for. But for Aerin Frankel, Haley Skomora, Mike Benelli, I am Lee Elias. We will see you on the next edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, Our Girls Play Hockey, Our Kids Play Goalie, or the Ride to the Rink. Picket poison. We'll see you next time. Take care, everybody.