Our Girls Play Hockey: Do Girls Take Hockey Coaching More Literally Than Boys?

- Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome back to another

edition of Our Girls. Play hockey, it's Lee Elias. I'm joined by Mike Bonelli and

Haley Scamurra for this packed panel. Today we're talking about something literally.

I actually am gonna name this episode literally. The actual name will be much cooler

and something that can be searched upon easily for our audience to find it. But,

you know, Haley and I were talking a few days ago. I'm coaching a young girls

team. I'm coaching a women's national team. Obviously, Haley plays in the PWHL team

USA. She has the resume and Mike's here too. No, I'm just kidding. Mike has also

coached the professional level with women's hockey and coach women throughout his

career. And we were discussing how we feel that at times, and again, Haley's words

too, not a generalization, but at times We feel that the young girls take coaching

far more literally than young boys do at times Okay, and so today we're gonna

discuss a what do we mean by that and then B How can coaches? Improve or look at

their own coaching and maybe filter this way in because because I have found to

Haley I'm gonna throw it to you again that there is a difference when I coach

girls teams versus boys teams and you know the positives and negatives. It's not

like one's better than the other. They're just different. But why don't we dive into

what we mean by girls take things literally?

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, I actually did coach a girls team like a U19

team when I was especially out of college, I think. And I think that's when it

really hit me about how girls take instruction. And so like you would show a drill

and they do it the exact way you drew it up unless you say otherwise.

And like that's it's a great thing. They're listening to directions like, but if you

want them to be creative at any point, you really have to emphasize be creative

like how you get from point A to point B, you don't have to follow this exact

pattern, but like this is the path you will take. And so I think that was my

biggest learning lesson there in how to like communicate with girls and how to try

to figure out like how to get them to be more creative because they tended to just

listen to exactly what you were saying and Because they want to get it right. I

think that's what it comes down to like they want to be listening They want to do

exactly what you're saying, but sometimes in hockey you have to get creative and you

have to kind of get outside your box Yeah, now I gotta say this to it Mike. I'll

throw it to you adversely. I find boys do the exact opposite It's like everybody

pay attention stop doing whatever you want to do and And listen, so again, it's not

that one's better or worse. They're very different, right? Mike, go ahead, your

thoughts on this too. - Yeah, no, I've seen that, I mean, throughout my coaching

career, I mean, working with, especially, you know, it all depends on the age group

too that you're working with. But I think the girls, they just, they're, and I

think a lot of it has to do with the fact that when you're coaching girls only

hockey, especially, when they're not mixed in with the boys, and depending on the

type of, the who you are as the coach, it might be the first time, like in my

experience, like they've actually had somebody trying to coach them and they just

want to like take it in more. It's not just like somebody out there, you know,

just that they're part of the team. It's like somebody's directing something to that

female. And I think that just inherently just, and the boys sometimes too, like if

you have a regular, you have your regular team and you're coaching your team and

you have a guest coach come in, the boys will quite literally take that instruction

differently because of their comfort level in the drill. And I think that's just

where, you know, I think you see the girls, they, well, the bottom line is they

do, they do take the drills quicker, they listen more intently. And I think they

process because they're not already thinking, oh, well, I know all this, I'm gonna

just go out there and do it. And I think it's just, you know, and it's not, you

And it's not, I guess it's generalizing, but it's the experience that I have

working. And it's the same thing in lacrosse. I teach young girls lacrosse and it's

easy. Like it's so much easier. Is it as creative? No, but it's easier. It's easier

to get girls through the drills and through the rotation and what I want them to

do because they say, okay, that's what you want me to do. That's what I'll do.

- Well, and I'll say this too. We've got three people here who have coached

different teams. It's a little bit of a diverse, you know, like group here. So the

fact that we're all seeing similar things, I think does help to prove that this is

not just a singularity. I mean, look, I think the other side of this too that I've

seen is, and I'll use my daughter's example, who plays on co -ed teams. This is her

first year on all girls team, in addition to those co -ed teams, visible difference

in how she's paying attention, and how she's applying, how she's interacting with her

teammates. And again, not so much saying that the talent or anything is different.

I'm saying her reaction to hockey is a little bit different. Whereas I think at the

younger ages, in a co -ed locker room, it might be a little awkward if you're the

only girl on the team, right? And maybe you do feel like you have something to

prove or maybe there's something else going on there. Haley, you could probably talk

to that more than we can. But once you got to the all girl team, Man, it was

wonderful to see. I mean, she really sprouted alive with them. She works her butt

off. I'm really proud of her all the time, right? That's not just limited to the

girls team, but you can see the visible difference from co -ed to girls hockey.

Haley, again, you've probably experienced that in your life as well.

- Yeah, absolutely. When I was on the boys team, my dad was the coach. And so I

was always listening 'cause I had to demonstrate the drills and things like that. So

I was always on, like I had to get the drill right. So that's what I was always

used to. And then with the girls side, like my dad coached me for like a year or

two on the girls side. And he definitely had to change his approach and how he

coached as well. But he definitely did enjoy it. Like he did notice like the

differences in that sense. But yeah, he did have to teach them, hey, do something

else here if it's not open, like the play that we talked about, if it's not there,

you don't have to do that play. So I think that was probably the biggest difference

and it was definitely more comfortable for me on the girl side, especially 'cause I

was ready for it at that point, like I was ready to be around my peers and kind

of continue playing hockey with them. - So let me ask this, this is a preface this.

This is a question, not a statement, right? When I think about a girl on a boys

team, right? I imagine that there's pressure to not mess up because you're the girl

on the boys team. And I wonder if that plays into, I'm just going to do exactly

what I'm told. I can't take risks or I shouldn't take risks. And again, I'm not

saying that's the way it is for everybody, right? I've coached plenty of girls who

are no problem showing up the boys on the team. But for the coaches listening, for

the parents listening, is that something that's real, right? Again, I'm asking that

from a male perspective.

I think there definitely is more of a pressure to like be perfect for sure.

I think, you know, you don't feel like you belong in a sense. You're trying to

like prove that you belong there and that you belong in that stage. And in order

to do that, you feel like you can't really make a mistake or else they're going to

be like, oh, see, that's why she should be in girls hockey or something like that.

So that doesn't surprise me at all. I definitely felt that way and honestly even to

this day like if I'm ever skating with

boys, I Like a part of me is like, okay. I really got to like Make sure I'm not

messing up or if I fall they're gonna be like, oh, it's cuz she's a girl You know

what I mean? Like just little things like that. It's kind of in the back of your

head a little bit So even to this day, which is kind of crazy to say, but I

thought of that the other day and So yeah, I think it's definitely something that

was ingrained a little bit and definitely led to me making sure like I got the

drills right and I'm not falling or I'm not, you know, messing it up or, you know,

mistaking a bad shot. They're like, oh, it's 'cause she's a girl, you know. So

yeah, I think that's definitely a pressure that girls face in boys hockey for sure.

- So Haley, it's probably one of the reasons that we go round and round about

whether you should play with all girls, all boys, half boys, half girls, just

because all those different nuances happen where I think I've seen, like in my

experience, the girls at the older age that continue to play with the boys most of

the time are already better. Like 'cause they have the confidence to stay in the

game and the boys are like, oh my God, like this girl's good. Like I'm not

treating her like a girl because she's just a or player than me. Whereas I think

at the younger levels, I found like even when we were developing hockey programs and

building these programs, having the girls together in their own space because the

boys weren't mature enough to kind of accept them. And that might've been other

extenuating circumstances. Could've been outside pressure from like a dad sitting there

like you're gonna let that girl beat you like in that drill like or whatever it

is. But when the girls were with the girls, I just found that they blossomed

quicker and the leader of the pack just arose quicker like you saw that person kind

of rise above the other girls because they already had innately they're looking

around like okay I'm the best girl here whereas there wasn't a pressure to be the

best player and I don't know I've seen but that's like that's the argument right we

all have like a dad will say or a mom will say well I want her to be fighting

and clawing and trying to get to the top. And then another dad might say, "No, no,

I want my daughter," just like a boy to have, it's just the same argument we have

when we tell kids to maybe play on the B team and not the A team if they're a

mid or low level player. Like, play in a place where you could gain confidence and

feel needed as opposed to just another player on the team.

Wasn't a question. (laughing) - Well, no, I was gonna add up. But I think it's just

like I think it's just one of those things where that's why we have these arguments

and that's why every individual player is an individual you can look and say oh

this girl she's dominating and now we got to put her in a different you know

setting so that we can see if we can bring that domination out even more. And Mike

I think you're bringing up a great point that and this is cool for this discussion

right is that as a as a coach, we're all focused on what's best for the team,

what's best for the player. I would even go as far to say, as a male coach, I

don't look at girls too much differently than the boys, but, and this is the big

point here, right? That's my perspective. The perspective of the youth hockey player

that is a girl is different than mine. I actually want to steer the conversation

that way because I have no doubt that coaches have the best interests of all their

players in mind. And again, look, when I'm coaching, whether it's girls team, boys

team, co -ed, I'm coaching the same way, right? It's just, it doesn't matter to me,

right? But, Haley, and you just said this, Mike, you just said this too, that might

not be the girl's perspective. So I want to talk about coaching now. What should we

be aware of? What should we focus on maybe a little bit more? And, you know, I

got a great question here about, you know, language, right? I've heard coaches say

things like be aggressive, go hard, find space, you know, that's not really a great

description of what we're trying to coach. I think sometimes we over generalize the

things we want, we'll just go harder. Well, we're adults, we kind of know what that

means, it doesn't mean a young kid understands what that means, that might just mean

move your arms faster, right? So just keeping this again, with it's our girls play

hockey, Those common phrases, go hard, find space, right?

Are they confusing? And can we rephrase them in a way that's gonna be better? And

again, this is probably a question that goes beyond just girls hockey, but let's

just keep that in mind when we're talking. Haley, I love your thoughts on that.

- I think that's a great point actually. I never really thought about that, but I

think you could definitely definitely be more specific in terms of how you can be

aggressive, like what does that look like? It's pinning someone into the boards,

winning board battles, things like that, like going into the more specific things you

can do in order to be aggressive or in order to be playing hard.

Being the first one on the forecheck, your role is just to go at that defender and

make them uncomfortable. Your role is not necessarily to get the puck. That might be

for the next person coming coming in. So it's like maybe explaining why you're doing

those things and what you're trying to get the outcome to be. Yeah.

And doing that might help the player be like, okay, that makes sense. Why I'm going

to be doing that and not just making them do it to do it. Yeah. One of my

favorite ones, you just brought this up to younger kids and parents, this is for

you too. They have a problem understanding what my job is not to get the puck. It

might not be to get the puck because the way kids look at the game is I always

need to get the puck and I always need to score and that's the only thing that

matters. So what we'll see a lot on four checks is and we're probably talking 12 U

-10 U now is like you're the first person on the puck and they'll hesitate they'll

get there and they'll stop in front of the player with the puck because they're

thinking I have to get this puck and it's like no we're trying to force that puck

away from that person but we don't you're making making a great point, we don't

really describe that well all the time. Another word that I'm guilty of using, I'm

really working on not doing this, is possession. And I talk about possession,

all the adults listening, I don't know what possession is, I should never assume

that a 10 -year -old A knows what that means, even knows what the word means, and

how it applies to a full game. And so I have to really explain that when we have

the puck, We don't want the other team to have the puck. We don't want to give

them the puck We don't want to throw the puck and if they're on you you got it

You got a battle for that puck, right? They have to earn the puck But we say that

like just possession possession game like that's just it's not enough, right? So I'm

always trying to find to I'm always self -auditing myself like what did I say? Did

that connect, right? Now with girls hockey specifically and the kids that I coach

one of the things I love and I'm not kidding coaches. They've never coached girls

hockey This is the most wonderful thing. They really the girls teams do do exactly

what I say. They learn very quick You know their ability probably in one or two

practices if they have the basic skill sets to apply them to whatever it is We're

trying to teach Lightning fast compared to to boys. All right now. There's stats

about that, obviously, we know that from maturity standpoint, girls develop a little

bit faster than boys. But I wonder if we could discuss that, because I find that

fascinating. And again, it's very enjoyable as a coach. But again, the caveat is,

Haley, they are doing exactly what I'm saying. So how am I supposed to introduce

some creativity into that? Is it just saying that? Do I need to build more trust

with my players? Where does that come from?

I think it's definitely like allowing them the space to make mistakes and being okay

with that, I think is huge just so the players know that it's okay to mess up.

And then in terms of this like finding space and things like that, I think the

creative piece you can kind of go into like explaining different ways to create

space you can do overlaps what does that do it confuses the D like really get into

the details of it 'cause I found that girls are so excited to learn. Like they

want to understand why they're doing things. And they're eager, they wanna know and

they wanna like be coached. 'Cause I found like, you know, a lot of them are like,

"Oh, I've never been coached like this before." And they just are so excited about

it. So I think it's just really leaning into that. And then just explain the

details because like to us, it might be obvious and like second nature. But to

them, it's new information. And then if they have the reason why behind it, they're

gonna go execute more effectively in my opinion. - I think I'm thinking too more of

like, I think the girls that I coach and the women that I've coach understand the

language of hockey. Like that hasn't been my issue. My issue has been my own

issues. Like, do I say, "Hey, come on guys, let's get Hey, stop, you know, you

gotta be really careful. Like if you're a man or a guy coaching women, like it

took me a long time with the Connecticut Whale even to be like comfortable, like

being on the bench. Because you just, you know, you have to have, you're just kind

of overthinking like the language you're using. And most of the professionals,

especially in the college girls, would be like, I don't care what you say, just be

a coach. Like, you know, "Stop thinking about it and just coach me." So I think

that at the youngest levels with dads, especially, I think they're maybe more

equipped because they have daughters. And if they're an aggressive person, with an

aggressive daughter, they're gonna teach differently than if they have the little girl

that goes out there with the pink helmet and the pink gloves and you're kind of

like saying, "Oh, just have fun." And it's amazing how you watch the different

parents and how they speak and then how those coaches articulate how they want to

speak, how they want to speak.

I say something like you're not going to be leaning on the boards or getting water

for 10 minutes when you're practicing on the ice with me I'm going to push you as

hard as I can push you because that's what I do with everybody I've also been on

the ice where I've heard coaches say Sweetie come on honey. Like let's like I'm

like, what are you doing? Like that is that is you would know like first off You

can never do that. This is the funny but you can't do that with boys, right? That

would be really awkward, right? And then on top of it, it's like, that's, you can't

do that. That's your, now you're treating them differently, whoever, right? Boys or

girls in this situation. And that's not okay either, right? So I think it's about

finding a balance and like, you know, that's the reason we go through safe sport

training. It's not, I don't coach girls differently than I coach boys, right?

I am more hyper aware when I'm coaching girls, maybe about what I'm saying or how

I'm saying it, but nothing really changes, all right?

And that's, and by the way, just to make sure I explain that, I'm talking about

how I maybe explain a drill or a skill set. I'm kind of meeting the player where

they're at. Actually, it doesn't even matter if the boys or girls not thinking about

it. But building off of this, all right? Haley, you talked about that trust and

this is where I want to pull a thread. The maybe the fear of making a mistake. I

love that you talked about being okay with making a mistake. Again, now listen, this

is across the board boys and girls, but that is a little different in the girls

game because of maybe the reason for not wanting to make a mistake. What's something

any coach can do, start of the season, mid -season, to build the trust, or at least

explain to the young girls, I want you to make mistakes, I want you to learn from

these mistakes. And then adversely, maybe what not to say, right? 'Cause I also hear

coaches say things like, you can't be doing that. Like, no, no, no, they can be

doing that. They're 10, they're 12. They can be doing that at practice, right? What

are your thoughts on that?

- I think you could almost point it out in a way where you're like, I love that

you just tried that, right? Like we, maybe we're talking about being creative on

like a zone entry and the player tried to like enter the middle to create space on

the outside and then the D took it away or something, right? I think you can go

to that player, maybe don't point it out in front of the whole team, but you take

that player aside and you're like, I love that you just tried that move. I think

that was a great idea. You know, the D just made a good play and that happens

sometimes. We have to commend them for making that good defensive play, but I liked

that you tried to do something creative and something different. So I think doing

that and just like little building blocks like that can really help a player feel

more comfortable and more confident in trying new things on the ice and getting out

of their comfort zone a little bit. - Yeah, for sure. I mean, catching kids doing

the right thing is a really hard thing to do as a coach. Like you have to train

yourself to say, oh, that isn't good. 'Cause we're always looking for the negative.

Like we're always like, oh my God, I can't believe you turned the puck over. Oh,

you made it should have made that pass. But catching somebody doing the right thing

and then giving them that little, you know, out of boy, out of girl, you know,

just like that's an unbelievable play. Like It's the kind of stuff that you have to

almost learn. Like you have to train yourself to be in a mode of, man, I gotta

make sure I remember to say something to that player when they come back on the

bench about that move or that play or that pass. And that's a really difficult

thing to do when you're in the game and you're a competitive person and you're

really trying to, almost a lot of us as coaches, you just assume the kids are

doing the right thing. Like, oh, well, you did the right thing. You're supposed to

do the right thing. And then I'll point out when you didn't. So it's really an

art, I think, to make sure that you're praising all the good things that are

happening as well. You know, I'll take that a step further. I think it means--

because I know it did to me. And I think sometimes you've got to do the-- how did

you feel when you were a player? I think it means the world to a kid when you

pull them aside, or even on the ice, just kind of put your head on the helmet.

And so you did a really good job with that. I think that goes so much further

now, here's the other caveat of that. That kid is gonna look at you with the most

blank stare in history and probably not smile or say anything, just uh -huh, uh -huh,

but they heard you, right? And I'll tell you what, right now, coaches and parents,

yeah, praise when they do stuff good, don't just praise them to praise them, okay?

That's another thing that I see. You know, I saw this in a game last week. I saw

obviously no names. I saw a player turn the puck over in our own slot Trying to

pass the puck up the middle of the ice. All of these are cardinal sins All right

in terms of youth hockey and I heard a parent screaming great pass blah blah blah

And I'm just like but but it was not a great pass It was like the worst possible

play to make in that situation I'm gonna have to talk to this kid when they come

back to the bench in a constructive way and explain why we never do that, but it's

like that's someone who's just trying to be heard and trying to be positive. We

don't want to reinforce that play, you know, so, so positive feedback is great when

it's, it makes sense, right? And then constructive feedback and say negative feedback,

constructive feedback, I've been adamant about this one Haley on the last five years,

coach the kids on the bench, right? When a kid makes a mistake on the ice in a

game, screaming at them in the game, first off, there's probably no way they're

really processing that. All right, and what you do is you show the kids on the

bench, hey, listen, this play just happened. Let me explain you why we want to

change that. And when the kid comes back off the ice, let me just show you this.

That's good coaching, in my opinion, all right? At the youth level. Again, as the

older you get, this changes. Like, I'm not gonna lie to that. Like, again, at the

level Haley plays, You can't really make mistakes too often, right? That's gonna play

out. - Yeah, but even at Haley's level, even at that level, you'll have the

cheerleaders. Like my wife's the cheerleader. Like she'll get, you know, we'll just

get spanked and she'll be like, oh, you play so great, blah, blah, blah. My son's

like looking at me like, what the hell is she talking about? Like we just got

crushed. But you know, but there has to be a cheerleader. There has to be somebody

that's like, okay, go back at him, get back at him. You're in there, you know, no

problem. You can come over, you know, but making a horrendous pass in the zone,

but I think yeah, but I think that's, but that's where, you know, it's really great

to learn at any girls, boys, whatever, have those people on the bench. You can't

have, you know, three just negative Nellie's on the bench the whole time. Oh, I

totally agree. It's like, oh my God, everybody sucks. But, and you're right, like

somebody has to be in a situation where they're speaking to the person on the

bench, they're observing on the ice, they're talking to them in the hallway, they're

giving them positive reinforcement and constructive criticism, like all of those

nuances of playing, but I think coming back to the girl side of things, I just

found that that was, you almost had to do that a little bit more. I'm in the

growth game, right? I'm in the game of how do we keep girls into the game playing

longer, right? And the only way to do that is to keep them in the game. So

beating And saying well, I'm gonna I'm gonna cull the herd and we talked about this

a lot right Lee on earlier episodes Like I'm gonna get it. You don't deserve to

play hockey if you can't be tough enough later on in life But let's get them there

first. Yeah, let's get them through. Let's get them to the gauntlet At some point

so you have to just it's like anything else just understand what age you're working

with understand what their threshold is for advice and And it is when work on the

ability to You know play off them the player itself and figure out where that where

that is that you can really push players Well, and I'll say this to them. I'll

throw it to another question and we'll get close to wrapping this one up You know

one of the things to I look for as a coach It I'll talk more about the team

building stuff that I do then on ice right now But this applies right when I do

team building work with a team There are times that they are really screwing up the

team building drill, but they are having such a great time. They're bonding, they're

figuring it out that I let them continue to do it. 'Cause it would be my ego of

you're not doing the drill right over the goal, which is getting them bonded, right?

So I'm using that, they're team bonding drills. So if I see them bonding over

screwing the drill up, I have to make sure I go, okay, this is working, working.

There are versions of that on the ice. You have to learn your basic skills,

you have to learn how they apply to a larger system, and you have to learn how

that works over three periods. But there's got to be some grace from a coaching

standpoint of seeing when they're learning or they're learning mode, even if the

drill's not going well. And look, right now with this 10 years girls team, we're

working on a breakout. I'll be very blunt. They are not very good at it yet, but

we're celebrating the little wins. We're celebrating, understanding that, okay, you

read that well, right? And I think there's gotta be some patience with that. And I

always bring this up too. Coaches have got, you've gotta put your ego aside. If

you're coaching with ego, you're not coaching, right? You're just telling them what

you want them to do at that point, right? So I think when it comes to girls

hockey and understanding too, Haley, what you said about them taking things literally,

having to explain things from a Y standpoint. I mean, I think this is important

across the board, right? The other part of it too I want to ask about is body

language, right?

Again, I'm kind of merging into that now, of does a coach's body language have any

difference at girls hockey versus boys hockey in your opinion?

- Oh man, it's

hard to say. I mean, for me, not really, but I would imagine that like,

for some girls, like if it's a male coach, their presence, it could be maybe more

large or looming and that could be more intimidating to girls at times. - Yeah. - I

know for myself, I didn't really feel that way because it was just my dad, so it's

just different, but I would imagine that a certain like it depends on the person,

but I think in the fact of just it being a larger male could inherently just be a

little bit more intimidating. So maybe that could be something that they would have

to like, maybe think about a little bit more if they're coaching like all girls or

a girl or anything like that. and find ways to like get on their level in terms

of not looming over them, but maybe like, you know, going down to talk to them and

things like that or sitting with them to talk with them. And so definitely things

to consider, I would imagine. - Yeah, and I won't dive deep into the psychology of,

of, you know, boys and fathers and mothers and daughters and fathers and mothers,

but that does exist, right? And that, you know, we about this all the time like

when it when it when it will just say an adult coach is raising their voice to a

child. I mean that statement alone brings up thoughts you know what I mean of how

are we interacting with these kids. So I think that you know the broad the broad

point here is awareness of just be aware of your coaching I always say this meet

the kids where they're at boys girls doesn't matter you got to meet them where

they're at and have have a clue that you know that everybody learns a different

way. Everybody perceives things a different way. The way you perceive things might

not be the way someone else is perceiving it. And I think exploring that as a

coach, as part of our evolution, part of our education, of there is no one way,

right? I mean, let me rephrase that. The days of one way coaching are kind of

done, right? Because those guys would all be arrested today If they did this stuff,

they did in the 70s and 80s. - Well, it's just even the language, right? I remember

I had to have a dad, well, not even a dad, it was a grandfather helping us with

lacrosse a couple of years back and he's up and down the field just yelling and

screaming at the guys like, "Come on, ladies, you gotta get to let out." And

everything I was like, I said, "You just can't say that anymore." I said, "I'm

sorry." It's like, you know, we're in the wrong group I think it's just, and then

I laugh because like, you know, I'm watching the girls like, these girls are going

to kick these guys ass anyway. So I don't even know what you're talking about. You

know, so I'm just like, you know, just funny how, you know, you have to evolve in

that, in that, you know, just the way you speak and what, and how you're motivating

and boys and girls, but there's still the tried and true ways of,

you know, getting to a player and getting them going. - Yeah, well, I'm going to

say this too, look, if you're over 40, if you're a male over 40 you grew up in a

time where people said don't play like a girl we all heard that growing up right

and it's like now I three years ago yeah I'm safe I've we've said that we've said

that from over a capital yeah but like like that's that's literally what we heard

like that being a woman was weak now obviously we don't think that way anymore

right but but these are things that exist in your mind that you might not realize

right and you got gotta think about those things. And again, like it's not hard to

change, right? That's something people are still saying. It's not accepted anymore.

Ali, to close this out, and again, I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit

with this one. Did you have any male coaches who really got it right? And what did

they maybe do differently for you than others? And then you feel free to use your

father if you want, or if you had other male coaches as well.

I mean, my dad, he never coached me any different than any of the boys, which I

did always appreciate like I didn't feel he didn't like dumb the game down or he

didn't like speak down to me or in any sense or didn't think I wasn't capable of

doing the things the boys were doing. He was expecting me to excel further than the

boys just based on my work ethic and things like that. So that I definitely

appreciate and when I see that in other coaches, I do appreciate that you can tell

when they're not talking down to you, you can tell when they're not being

patronizing like things like that. So I think kind of what you are saying me in

terms of like not coaching them differently, I think that's massive. I think it's

important to like take note of like the little things you can like say to make it

maybe more clear and things like that. But like overall, like, coach me like hard,

like, you know, critique me, give me feedback, like, girls want that and they want

to get better, they don't want to be coddled.

And I mean, yeah, that's my big one. Well, look, I'll say this again in closing

and then like, if you have anything to, I have found that the girls that I've

coached at every level, every age group from National Team Down, not only want to

learn, but boy, do they retain that information quickly. And again, it's just part

of maturity in that. but I'll also echo what you just said, Haley. I am not gonna

coach anyone differently. I'm going to push you to be the best that you can

possibly be, that has nothing to do with whether you're a boy or a girl. That's

just how I coach, right? But again, I'm always trying to push myself to be a

better coach as well. That's why awkward conversations like this episode have to

happen. That's the whole point of this show is to have these types of questions

that people, you're not to walk up to somebody and they're like, tell me how I

should coach a girl differently. It's just not gonna happen, right? That's why this

show exists. But Mike, do you have any final thoughts too before we close it out?

- No, I think it's just the same theme. It's like, you know, just coach. I mean,

it's pretty simple and, you know, just understand like that, you know, what your

language, you know, how it impacts whether you're working with girls or boys.

I mean, I think it's just a matter of, you know, and set those it's pretty high

at the beginning. Make sure you, you know, make sure you follow up. If you're

coaching a co -ed team, make sure you listen to your boys and girls and making sure

you're like, listen guys, you know, or guys here, right? But just, you know, just

make sure we're on the same page and we're developing each other and you're a

teammate and then don't worry about the, you know, the girl boy thing. Yeah. Well,

I love it. And that's literally the end of this episode. So, if you have any

thoughts on this, again, this was a discussion, right? We said we're not coming to

this as quite experts today. Let us know what you think. Email us at team

@ourkidsplayhockey .com. You can use the link accompanying this episode in the

description to text us. If you have thoughts on this, share it. We'd love to hear

from you. We'll share them on a future episode. You're part of the discussion, too,

as the audience, but that's going to do it for this edition of Our Girls Play

Hockey for Mike Vannelli. I'm Lee Elias. That's Haley Scamora. We'll see you next

time friends get on have fun and take care we hope you enjoyed this edition of our

kids play hockey make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value

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