Our Girls Play Hockey - Gabbie Hughes on Resilience, Leadership, and Mental Health in Hockey

Lee MJ Elias [0:00 - 1:00]: Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome to another episode of our Girls Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias and I'm joined by my co host, Hayley Scamurra. And today we're sitting down with someone who represents the absolute best of what this sport can be on and off the ice. Gabby Hughes is a standout athlete who starred at the University of Minnesota Duluth and has gone on to play professionally today with the Ottawa Charge. But her work off the ice is just as inspiring. In 2023, Gabby received a prestigious hockey humanitarian award for her. Excuse me. For her advocacy around mental health and her involvement with Sophie's Squad, a nonprofit focused on supporting the mental well being of young hockey players. We encourage all of you to check that out. She's not only an elite athlete, she's a powerful voice for the community, for inclusion and for purpose driven leadership in girls hockey. And she's joining us today. Gabby, welcome to our Girls Play Hockey. 

Gabbie Hughes [1:01 - 1:09]: Wow, that was insane to hear. Thank you. I'm so honored to be here. I'm excited to have have a chat with you guys. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:09 - 1:45]: We are excited to have you. I enjoy reading opens like that. It is always fun to put them together because, you know, we could just say every episode, yeah, here's another hockey player. Talk about hockey. But we like to have those accolades up front. And I am going to say this. We are going to dive into Sophie's squad and mental health today, always an important topic on our network. But Gabby, we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about your hockey life before that. Why don't you walk us through your journey? What made you fall in love with the game and maybe give us the the three to five minute from start through college to the pros kind of, kind of synopsis. If you can. If you can. 

Gabbie Hughes [1:46 - 3:46]: Okay, let me. Yeah, okay. So my dad's side of the family all played hockey. He's like one of seven kids. So as soon as any of his siblings started having kiddos, we were all put in skates. I have two older brothers as well, so I think by the time I could stand up, they were putting me in hockey skates. And luckily enough, just down the street is a cul de sac with a little pond. So we would march down there even with our skates on and our skate guards on and go right onto the pond. And that's just how I fell in love with the game. How fun it can be, how easy it can be. In Minnesota especially, there's a pond, an outdoor rink, like every Two miles from us. So, yeah, just playing pond hockey is how I fell in love with it. Funny story. I ended up going into, like, team hockey, and I was playing U8s. And the first year, my dad goes, she's not going to be a hockey player. She is terrible. Let's maybe sign her up for dance soccer, like, have her try every other sport. She's not a hockey player. And I said, no, I want to keep trying. I want to play hockey. I really like it. So he signed me back up and that was that. I just continued chugging along with hockey and, yeah, went on and played high school hockey at Centennial in Minnesota and then headed up to Duluth, Minnesota, to play college hockey and spent five years there, got my education. I went to school for elementary and special ed. So, yeah, best five years of my life were at school. I love Duth. I'll promote that every chance I get. I love that city. And, yeah, now I'm playing in the PWHL for the Ottawa Charge. 

Lee MJ Elias [3:46 - 4:26]: I got to say real quick, Haley, before we get into your question, it is amazing to me, Gabby, how many players start and. And I hear parents, they come to me and say, my kid's the worst skater out there. And I'm like, your kid's seven. It was like, you give it a minute. And I remember this one parent came to me and his kid ended up, like, this was years ago, becoming captain of the varsity team, like, down the line. It makes me wonder sometimes, like, how many people stop playing hockey because of this early on. I'm going to say people, it takes a long time to cook a hockey player 10 years before you're going to see anything resembling what they're going to be. So I'm really glad they stayed out there. 

Gabbie Hughes [4:27 - 4:28]: Yes, me too. 

Hayley Scamurra [4:28 - 4:35]: That's so funny. Yeah, classic. I can see your dad doing that for sure. Was he pretty intense with you growing up as a coach? 

Gabbie Hughes [4:36 - 4:54]: Oh, yeah, extremely intense. We chalked it up to just, like, being very passionate. He cares a lot, but, yeah, he was very intense on and off the ice. Hockey all the time. Drilled that into our brain. Hockey was number one. Yeah. 

Hayley Scamurra [4:54 - 4:58]: Is that when he set up the shooting area in your garage at home or what? 

Gabbie Hughes [4:58 - 5:20]: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I think. Yeah. 2005 is when he put that stuff in. We haven't parked in the garage since. Yeah, he set out 100 pucks for me to shoot before school every morning. Yeah, he just was very passionate. Wanted what's the best for me. 

Hayley Scamurra [5:22 - 5:31]: Oh, that's great. But it sounds like you advocated for yourself Pretty well even from the start. Right. So that's awesome that you kind of, like, learned those tricks and tips as you were growing up. 

Gabbie Hughes [5:32 - 5:42]: Yeah, it definitely was hard, but I looked at my. I just remember looking at my mom and dad and being like, no, I want to try one more time. I think I can do it. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:42 - 5:43]: I think that. 

Gabbie Hughes [5:43 - 5:44]: I think I can. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:44 - 5:51]: Yeah. Sorry, Gabby, I wasn't trying to interrupt you there. I. I gotta say that we. We talk about this all the time. Kids advocating for themselves. 

Gabbie Hughes [5:51 - 5:52]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:52 - 6:18]: So I think, you know, that's an early onset showing of your adversity, you know, your resilience. Right. And I think that's really important. It also shows parents, you got. You have to be patient. You have to be patient real quick. So I want to pull the throat on this a little bit. 100 pucks in the morning before school. Let's. Let's pull the thread on that for a minute. Was that a forced action? Did you want to do that? Did you enjoy doing that? 

Gabbie Hughes [6:19 - 7:14]: It started off as my dad, like, telling me, hey, I'm setting out 100 pucks. You're gonna shoot them before school. And I'm like, okay, I suppose. But again, like, it took time, but I learned that doing those extra things is what was going to separate me from any other hockey player to make it to where I wanted to go. So doing those little things, I always kept that in the back of my mind. And I ended up loving doing those kind of things. Whether it was before school, after school, extra programs in the morning. Like, we did a stick handling clinic on the ice at 5am before school started. Like, there was just a bunch of stuff that at first I was like, seriously, we have to do this. But then you put it into perspective and you're like, these are the things that are. Are going to separate me from other. Other people that want to make. I want to go far. So, yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:14 - 7:45]: Can you, can you tell us. And look, I know this from talking to so many parents. Can you talk us through how he put that in perspective in a way that made sense for you as a child? Because I know a lot of parents, I'll say it bluntly, they force their kids to practice. And I think it's a massive mistake if the kid doesn't have a desire. I'm not saying like a want to wake up at 4:30 in the morning, get to the rink, like, nobody wants to do that, but there's the desire to do it of, okay, I'm gonna do this. How did he put that in perspective? In a way that made sense. 

Gabbie Hughes [7:45 - 7:45]: What. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:45 - 7:46]: What did he say? What did he do? 

Gabbie Hughes [7:47 - 8:41]: Yeah, I feel like at first, he didn't really care if we liked it or not. It was kind of just like, you're doing it. But he did. He really just said, there's always someone out there that's going to be working harder than you and think about that every day. If. And he said, plenty of times, my whole career, he said, where. Where do you want to go with hockey? And I was like, I want to play Division 1 hockey. And at that time, there wasn't a pro league, so I was like, I want to go D1. Like, I want to play college hockey. He's like, okay, if that's your true goal and your true dream, I'm just gonna say there's other people out there that are doing these extra things that are doing these things that are going to separate them to get them to the next level, and if you don't want to do them, that's fine. But if you truly want to reach your goal, you have to do these extra things that are going to set you apart, and you have to love doing it. 

Lee MJ Elias [8:42 - 8:43]: Well, that's cool. 

Hayley Scamurra [8:43 - 8:44]: That's awesome. 

Gabbie Hughes [8:44 - 8:55]: Yeah. That really puts stuff into perspective of, like. I mean, I still think, like, when I'm going to work out and I think I'm doing everything, I'm like, there's somebody else out there working harder than me. I'm like, oh, no, no. 

Lee MJ Elias [8:55 - 9:34]: I can relate to that. And I'll tell you what, it doesn'. It's not. You don't just apply it to hockey. Right. It's amazing how that mindset transcends the game into other things that you're doing. You know, even podcasting. I really appreciate you sharing that. And, Haley, I'm sorry, I know I divert a little bit from the questions there, but. But I think that's something we have to unlock for parents sometimes. Is there. There is kind of a. There's no one path, but there are. There are. You know, success leaves clues. How about that? Right, Right. And it's like, it doesn't sound like he chained you up and said, hey, you must shoot 100. It's like, no, this is what's good. And I love that you told us that story. Go ahead. Sorry. 

Hayley Scamurra [9:34 - 9:57]: Yeah, no, I was just gonna add that I feel like he. He had you lead it in the sense that it was, like, based on what you wanted and what your dream was, and then he was kind of helping guide you to that dream. And so it wasn't like, he had this dream of you playing D1. It came from you. And I think that's an important kind of difference maker in that. And what he was kind of helping you figure out how to, like, get to that point. 

Gabbie Hughes [9:57 - 10:01]: Yeah, 100. Definitely still his. It was his dream as well. 

Hayley Scamurra [10:01 - 10:03]: But, yeah, fair enough. 

Lee MJ Elias [10:03 - 10:53]: My dad dream of all fathers, I can tell you that, with my daughter. You know, it's funny because. Because people ask me that all the time about my kids. Both my kids, not just my daughter. Right. And it's like, yeah, of course we all dream about it, but the truth is, I can't make my dream her dream. I always do this. I can't create it. I can cultivate it. Right. But I also have to. And this is so hard as a parent. I have to be mentally understanding. There may be a moment in time where it's, dad, I don't want to do this anymore. And I just want to make sure that if that moment ever comes, it's not because of something that I did. Right. Of, like, you're making me do this, and I hate it, man. You want to talk about breaking a heart, right? This might be a cautionary tale for some of the people listening, but I'm saying is that I love the way you said that, Haley. It's like, no, it was your dream. And we helped the cultivate his dream, too. Love it. All right. 

Hayley Scamurra [10:53 - 10:53]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [10:53 - 10:57]: Great stuff. I'm taking practical advice as a dad here. You guys are giving me. 

Hayley Scamurra [10:57 - 11:00]: Yeah, yeah. Enlightening you. Yeah. 

Gabbie Hughes [11:01 - 11:02]: Take notes. 

Lee MJ Elias [11:02 - 11:03]: I did. I literally did. 

Hayley Scamurra [11:06 - 11:25]: So, Gabby, we really want to talk about kind of like, your work in the mental health field. You won the 2023 Hockey Humanitarian Award in. In your college years at Duth for your work with Sophie Squad. So we just wanted to kind of hear how you got started, how you started Sophie Squad, and why it resonated with you so deeply. Obviously. 

Gabbie Hughes [11:26 - 15:40]: Yeah. I'll try to do long story short, because I could yap about this for hours. I'm very, very passionate about it. But my dad owns a summer hockey program here in Minnesota. Um, so one of his teams, we were about to go out to the Beantown Classic, if you know that tournament. It's a huge deal for us. That's where a lot of kids that we coach get recruited and everyone gets super excited. So we're gearing up. It's the weekend before we're about to head out, and we get a phone call from one of our other players, Rachel, saying her sister, um, had lost her battle with mental health. Her name's Sophie. She was 14 years old and she left a letter stating that she struggled for about three years with her mental health and the idea of not wanting to be here and not really loving herself, putting too much pressure on herself. So once we found that out, we were going to cancel the trip. But Rachel and, and Sophie's mom Amy were like, no, Sophie would want us to go and be around the people we love. So we still went. It was a tough tournament. It was sad, but it was good to surround ourselves around family, friends that were all going to be out there. But we sat down and we're like, something needs to, something needs to happen with this. We can't let a 14 year old who's struggling for three years in silence that like, we need to figure out how we can get people to get a voice to know it's okay to have these struggles. More people go through these kind of struggles than anybody knows, but nobody talks about it. So we're like, hey, let's do a golf tournament, raise some funds for Sophie's family. Maybe they can pick a place they can donate it to. We'll just do a golf tournament. Like, yeah, that's a great idea. Sophie played for a high school team called Sartel. And we're like, well, they're the first hockey game of the entire season for girls high school hockey. What if we did some honor game for Sophie at that, at that game? Like, oh, that's a really good idea too. So we just started rolling with all these ideas and we ended up doing the hockey game and we brought out, we bought T shirts. Everyone got a T shirt when they came in the door that said Sophie Squad on it. They were all teal, her favorite color. We got bracelets made, we got. Some families went out and made tie blankets for us to sell. We did chuck a puck, we did a raffle for tickets to a wild game. And we ended up raising a lot of money. But after that game, we got an amazing amount of emails of people saying, we want to do this at our hockey games. We want to bring mental health into our school, into our hockey community. And it just kind of blew up after that and it was just a group of parents and me and we didn't know what we were doing. And it ended up turning into this huge thing. But yeah, that was in 2021. And here we are now a full on. We got our non profit certificate certificate and we go out to hockey games. We have probably 40 events a year. We've started doing pro games now. PDub. We do the Wild. We've been to the LA King, LA Kings games. We've. We just continue to expand. But our main goal is just, we want people to know that your voice is wanting to be heard. Whatever you're going with, how little, how big, it doesn't matter. There's somebody out there that wants to listen and help you because you're such a value to whatever community you're a part of, and it's okay to not be okay. And so we go, we do student athletes from youth to college and now pro, and we just try to spread awareness of mental health. 

Hayley Scamurra [15:42 - 15:56]: Oh, that's beautiful, Gabby. I love that. I think it's incredible. It's a huge testament to who you are as a person. And look at how incredible this has grown because of you and your family's hard work and. Yeah, I'm just so proud of you. It's awesome. 

Gabbie Hughes [15:56 - 16:25]: Thanks. It's. It is a lot of work. We have a lot of people helping our volunteers, our board members, but it helps us process the emotions still, too. It helps us kind of get through it and helps us still think about her every single day and, and strive for. For a difference of. Of mental health and getting people to end that stigma. So it's good for everybody. It's good for us, our healing process and helping others, too. So we love it. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:29 - 17:48]: You know, I'll say real quick, first of all, thanks so much for sharing that story because I think it's an important one to share. You know, when it comes to mental health, it is amazing. You kind of said it at the end there, that it's a silent conversation for most people and it really shouldn't be right. You know, in all the studies I've done and all the clinics I've attended about mental health and this, people that are going through that situation not only want to speak to someone, actively look to speak to someone. And I think while the stigma is breaking, we're in a time period where the stigma is breaking. We've got a long way to go. And I think that, that just the understanding of if someone comes to you and they look off, have the conversation, they most likely want to have that conversation with you. I think that it's a mistake. Oh, no, no. It's not my place. It's all of our places to take care of each other. In some ways, we've forgotten how to do that. In some ways, we're championing that. Yeah. I think the first time I saw this was I was at the Minnesota, let's play hockey Expo. And there was a booth, and I remember the people working the booth for, you know, not for you, but for the squad. You know, it's like they walked up to everybody, introduced themselves to everybody. I mean, it really is an amazing endeavor. Right. That is having massive impact. 

Gabbie Hughes [17:49 - 18:45]: Yeah. Yeah. Even, Even. Even for me, I. I struggled pretty bad. I still do. But I was diagnosed with pretty bad anxiety and depression, probably in 2018, I would say. And I have my. My peaks, my pits. It's a roller coaster. And it's. I think it's something that a lot of people, when you get diagnosed with it, you think, okay, I'll go to therapy and I'll be good. You know, I can, whatever. But it's. It's a roller coaster, and you just got to figure out how you can ride that to the best of your abilities. And that's also why I'm so passionate about it, is I definitely didn't want people to know when I was playing college hockey that I was struggling so badly. I didn't want my teammates or my coaches to know because I didn't want them to think, okay, she can't handle the pressure. She's going through something, so we're just. We're not going to put her in pressure situations or we're not going to. I didn't want to be treated differently. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:45 - 18:46]: Right. 

Gabbie Hughes [18:47 - 19:38]: I just wanted someone to listen, but I didn't want it to be people that I thought, oh, maybe they're going to think I can't handle stuff because I'm struggling or whatever, they can't come to me for advice as a teammate because I have my own stuff going on, you know, so Sophie Squad has helped me a lot, find my voice, find my ability to reach out to people. And even though it's hard sending that text of hey, I need someone to lean on right now, or hey, mom, I'm really struggling. Can I call you? Like, those are such brave things to do. But Sophie Squad and just really any mental health conversation really gets me just thinking about how I've grown in. In my journey and through. Through Sophie Squad. So, yeah, it's been fun. I've done a lot of self growth just with the organization as well. It's been. It's been really cool. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:38 - 21:39]: You know, I'll say this real quick and then Haley, we can dive into that. Next question is that, you know, when it comes to. We call it mental fitness, we call it mental health. One of the things about, you know, humanity really recently is that you know, we are meant to work in tribes. We are meant to work together. We are animals at the end of. At the end of the day. And it's funny because if you look at human history, that that kind of tribal mentality is how we've moved through time. And it's only been recently that that has started to. To spread out. And there's a lot of reasons for it. And I'm not pointing the finger. People like, oh, it's social media and it's, look, that's the world we live in now. It's not. Those are not bad things. I can make an argument that those have connected people more than ever, too. But they have taken a bit of the human connection and, and spread it out a bit. And if there's anything that I'm certain of, and, and again, science and biology prove this is we are meant to work together. It should not be crazy. And I'm doing quotations to say to someone, I need you right now. It's. And you said the perfect word, Brave. Right? And if, if there's anything, I think people listening to this take away, it's okay. You said it's okay to not be okay. You can reach out the other side of that is, are you willing to be the person to receive that message and be there for a friend? Because I think, you know, one of the NHL goalies said it a while back, he goes, I might be mentally ill, but I'm not mentally weak. And I'm not saying anybody with this is mentally ill. Don't get me wrong, they're not mutually exclusive. I think that I'm going to kind of say this a little too bluntly. The weakness in this scenario is if you're not willing to receive someone that needs you right now, 100% right? To me, that's the dark side of this. Right. And that's part of the stigma. I hope we can flip upside down. But look, with that said, I'm going to throw it to Haley hockey players. And I love that you said we, we to different degrees. We all deal with this in some way. Right? Go ahead, Haley. 

Hayley Scamurra [21:39 - 22:08]: Yeah, absolutely. I think I've also had my own mental health journey. You know, I started working with the sports psych when I was in college, and I learned about sports psych in college. I had no idea that was even a field. And it was hugely beneficial for me. And I just think the conversation is getting better around mental health in sports, and I wanted to kind of get your thoughts. You guys work with a lot of, like, high School girls teams, young youth travel teams. So what are kind of the biggest pressures in girls hockey that you have seen that we're maybe not talking about enough? 

Gabbie Hughes [22:09 - 25:08]: Yeah, I think the easy answer is a lot of people, parents, we see that a lot. They don't want to disappoint their parents. Their parents want them to have so much success, and whether that comes from a really, really, really good place, they still, as a child, feel that. And we actually had someone message us not that long ago, trying to just get some advice. They've been struggling pretty badly. So we ended up just reaching out and say, hey, come over to our house. We don't. Here's our address. Come over. We'll sit in the garage. We'll have a chat, like, whatever. And her biggest thing was she just was kind of heartbroken about disappointing people. And she said she's like, I don't know where this is coming from, because my parents are constantly telling me they love me no matter what, and I could never disappoint them. But I have this feeling in the back of my mind, and I think it's just the sports world is you always want to achieve. You have to be the greatest. You have to be the best. And I think she was. She was just feeling these things of constant disappointment of, I'm not the best on my team, and maybe I'm not going to play college hockey. And is that something that I really want to do? Is that something that I can even do? Like, there's just so much. And I think that disappointment, whether it's an internal pressure or an external pressure from outside sources, we hear that a lot. Just the. The pressure that they feel to be something. I think as kids at that age, there's so many people telling you what you can do. Oh, you're gonna be so good, or you could be so good if you continue to do this. And those aren't bad things to hear, but there are some kids out there that. That take that and say, I don't even know if this is what I want to do. I don't want to let people down now. Like, they start kind of spiraling on that aspect. So I think pressure, whether it's internal or external, is a big one that we. We constantly hear of. They're so young. They're like, I don't even know if I want to play hockey yet. You know, like. And then there's the kids there that. That are like, no, this is what I want to do, but I'm scared that I'm gonna Disappoint somebody along the way or whatever. Yeah, I would say that's. That's definitely the biggest thing that, that we hear related to sports. There's obviously at that age, all this stuff going on in schools and trying to find your friendship circle and navigate a social life and all that stuff. We hear, we hear a lot about that and just how there's still mean girls out there in middle school and bullying happening. So we hear a lot about that. But just in the sports world and around hockey, it's that, that pressure. 

Lee MJ Elias [25:09 - 26:06]: So I want to ask this question. A lot of what you're describing, you know, boys feel too, right? 100% like, we all feel that. So I'm going to ask this question in the sense of. I'm trying to find the right words here. It is. It has got to be a little extra, a little different for women as well, in the sense of, look, I can't put myself in your shoes, right? I know what it's like to be a boy with that pressure growing up. I know what it's like to see it as a coach. I want you to, you know, dive in, educate me, educate the dads out there, right? Educate the parents out there on what women have to deal with on top of that. Right? Because it, it. I'm not trying to separate men from women so much. It's just, it's different. You, you deal with so much more pressure as a woman. Right? Can you, can you both dive into, you know, what do I not see? What do I not know about that? 

Gabbie Hughes [26:08 - 27:32]: I feel like I'm not going to speak for anyone but myself, but I, I'm an emotional little peanut. I might come off as this tough external, whatever, like, happy, go lucky. But I am emotional. And everything that I do is to 100% of my being, whether it's emotions, effort, like, I'm all in. Which also brings a lot of tears, a lot of anxiety, a lot of overthinking, a lot of internal pressure just because that, that emotional side of it is always with me. I, I don't have. And I work on it every day in therapy and sports psych, but I don't have the ability to separate those emotions. I, I just go all in. I feel the emotions so deeply. So I don't know. I have two other brothers, and talking to them about this stuff, they're like, why do you keep. Like, why do you care? Like, why are you crying about this? I'm like, what do you mean? Like, sobbing? And they're like, like, how did you cry and they're like, it's not that big a deal. It's not that deep. I'm like, yes, it is. Like, I just feel so deeply. And I think that was a really big learning curve for my. My dad, especially with two boys and then having me come along. He's like, why is she crying all the time? I'm like, I just care. 

Lee MJ Elias [27:33 - 28:53]: I'm right here. Yeah. Let me ask you this. So again, you're diving into something here, right? Because the. The. I think a lot of boys are told, don't cry, don't feel, don't show your emotions. It's not just boys, right? But that. That's a world we have grown up in. So I think with. With. With guys, you know, sometimes we'll see that someone crying and go, oh, come on. Like that. That's where our brains goes. You know, my father and I don't. I don't think he meant to do this for any other reason for me, but he told me something at a young age that. That I'm realizing now was really affected me. I was emotional about something he said. Lee. He goes, boys don't cry. Men do. That's what he said to me. And that. That really changed my perspective. Right. Of him basically saying, like, you know, it's okay to feel what you're feeling, which he was born in 1940, so for him to tell me that was kind of crazy. But where I'm going with that is this. You said, I'm passionate. I'm an emotional little peanut. I love that. That kind of wearing it on your sleeve or feeling big feelings actually helped versus vault you into a professional hockey player. I want to remind everybody listening, you're talking to a professional hockey player right now. Right. And a Division 1 collegiate alumnus. Right. Would you say that those emotions helped fuel the fire to get to where you're at today? 

Gabbie Hughes [28:54 - 29:42]: Oh, 100%. 100%. It was tough at times, for sure, just because I. I do feel things all the time, and I. I don't hide it. Like you said, I wear it on my sleeve. Everyone. Everyone knows the mood that I'm in. I just. I can't. It can be a flaw, but also, I think it's really good. But, yeah, that's definitely gotten me to every stage of my life. And even with friendships and deeper conversations and the relationship I have with my coaches now, even from college, we're still in contact. And I do think a lot of that has to do with those conversations we had about emotions and real feelings and not just putting on that front of. No, I'm good. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:42 - 29:44]: Yeah, right. 

Gabbie Hughes [29:44 - 30:04]: You know, like, you get into that. You know what? No, I'm going to my monthly meeting with the coaches. No, I'm struggling. I'm not doing too well. You know, having those. Those conversations about my emotional swings and. And everything, it definitely shaped me into who I am, where I am, but also has given me some really great friendships. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:04 - 30:35]: How did your coaches respond to that? I think that's another great thought here, because at least in youth hockey, Gabby, I see a lot of coaches not respond well to that. You know, a lot. There's a lot of, hey, toughen up. Tough enough. You know, it's like, hey, this was an opportunity to really earn someone's trust. And when a player comes to you and says, hey, I'm not feeling well, and you just tell them to basically scurry off, you've just broken every amount of trust you could have with that player. So maybe we should ask this way, you know, And Haley, I do want to get your thoughts on this, too. I'm sorry. 

Gabbie Hughes [30:35 - 30:35]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [30:35 - 30:44]: Just, you know, you're okay. Thank you. Thank you. What? What? Maybe you. Have coaches done really well in that situation? Maybe. What have they done? Not well. 

Gabbie Hughes [30:45 - 31:17]: Yeah, I. From my experience, my college coaches were amazing. Again, it was only in 2018, so this. It's not that long ago, but we have come so far with our conversations, but they just. They. They weren't educated. They didn't really know that that was a thing. I mean, they. They knew of it, and they knew, oh, go talk to your sports psych. They kind of just would. Would. What's the word I'm looking for? Kind of pawn you off to okay. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:17 - 31:20]: Or whatever, you know, there's the solution over there. Yeah. 

Gabbie Hughes [31:20 - 33:27]: Yeah. But when I sat down with them and it's just like, hey, I just. I've been emotional at practice. I've had a short fuse. I've really been going through it. Getting here's what I've been diagnosed with. I'm going through trying to find the medication to help me, the right therapist. It's just been kind of a whirlwind of emotions, and I just wanted to lay that out there. If I'm not acting my normal Gabby or upbeat, whatever, and I'm not able to bring that to the rink. I just wanted you to be aware. So you're not ripping my head off or you're not asking, hey, what's going on with Hughes? Like, what's. What's her deal? I just wanted you guys, to be aware. And they kind of just sat there for a second, and I think they didn't want to say the wrong thing, but I was like, God, this is awkward. You know, like, do I say something else? But they were just like, thank you for letting us know. We're. We're here for you, whatever you need. It sounds like you're taking all the right steps, but if you need a space to just cry and you don't want the team to see because you're. You're trying to put up this wall, office is always open. Wow. So it was. It was amazing. But even now, my coach says every beginning of every year, you know, coaches bring the team in and they do a big talk of, hey, we have resources for strength and conditioning. Here's your strength coach. They do all this stuff, and they never really talked about mental health. It was just, you know, but now she's like, from you and Sophie squad, any coach I come across, I remind them that that's something they should do at the beginning of the year is, hey, if you're struggling with mental health, here's the steps you take. You either come to coach and we'll get you to a therapist. You come to the team doc, we'll send you to the right people, and we'll get you on the right path. And they never used to do that, but now it's just a standard for them to talk about and open that door right away from day one. So they were great, and they've learned a lot, and they always thank me for opening that door. 

Hayley Scamurra [33:29 - 33:48]: That's incredible that you're the one who made that impact. Think about that. Your strength and your vulnerability in that moment made a forever lasting impact on the college that you went to, to then help the next generation, whoever goes there. So I think that's just amazing, and you should be so proud of yourself for that. 

Gabbie Hughes [33:48 - 34:17]: Yeah, yeah. Again, it takes courage. Like, it was one of those things you don't. You don't want to talk about it. You want to be this tough cookie in hockey. I'm a hockey player. You know, that's what you're always drilled in your brain to think. I'm a hockey player. I'm tough. I can do this. You know, I don't want people to know I'm a emotional peanut. Like, I don't want people to know that. So it does take courage. But I think those conversations always show how strong you are. It gives you strength. 

Lee MJ Elias [34:17 - 37:34]: You know, I'm smiling. You know, what has always boggled My mind about our game is. It is complete chaos all the time. It's organized chaos, the equivalent I give to people who don't play. And I say just this. I want you to think, if I enclosed a parking lot and put 11 people in cars in that parking lot, and you're driving as fast as you possibly can in this enclosed space, tell me some of the emotions you think might go through your mind. Because a lot of times it's holy, holy, holy, just the whole time, right? And you know, that's the game. Like, you did just be a tough, tough cookie. And it's like, we've said this on the show so many times. Haley, you will experience more adversity in a weekend of hockey than you will in a month of life. Emotions are going to be attached to that. Now there is some responsibility to practice being in control of your emotions. That is a valuable skill. Gabby, one of the things I always do when I talk about mental health, mental fitness is I equate it, especially for coaches with organizations. I say, you'll do everything to be physically fit and, you know, everything you need to do. You did the gym. But here's the truth about this. Everyone does the gym a different way. Everyone's got a different plan for physical fitness. The mind is not much different. You need a mental fitness plan, a mental gym. And get this, everyone's plan is a little bit different, right? So, like, going back to it, while it was great that, you know, there's acceptance of, hey, let's talk to the therapist or let's talk to the team doctor, that's great. The plan is going to be different for everyone. And it again, boggles my mind that sometimes there's people out there of like, oh, mental health, man. The mental health stuff. Like, guys, this is part of it. This is part of living, right? And look, every team, not some teams, every single team, from youth all the way to pro, if you're not adopting some form of plan for this or at minimum, talking about it, not only are you doing a disservice to all your players, but you're definitely hurting the hockey as well. You should probably reverse the priority on those two things in terms of the order I just said them, but it's mental fitness. Are you doing the reps? And here's the other thing, Gabby, right? There's no achieving mental fitness or mental health, right? It's not something that, oh, well, I went to the doctor and they fixed me. That is not how this works. It's, you must practice. You must continue to do the reps. If you stop working out in the gym, you get out of shape, your mind works the exact same way. Right. And we all have dips, we all have times where we're, you know, metaphorically eating the chocolate bars and not going to the gym. Right. So again, I'm sorry, I did not mean to go on a tangent there. I just, I love that there's an evolution there. I love what Haley said. You're championing this mindset. And again, this is something we all in hockey have a responsibility to do. Right. I do want to go back. Haley, I wanted to make sure you had a chance to answer the question too. About, about like, what am I not seeing as, as, I guess a man or what do women, I don't know how to phrase this question right, so it's a tough question. 

Hayley Scamurra [37:34 - 38:25]: You're good. I, I, I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. I think as female athletes, I find that we always want to, we always want to follow directions perfectly and listen to every single thing the coach says. So the biggest thing, like I've noticed in coaching girls versus boys is girls will do exactly what you tell them. They will not deviate unless you tell them to deviate. So it's just like that people pleasing aspect. I think that we always want to make others happy and we're always worried about how others are feeling. And then we forget to kind of like focus on ourselves and to like, do what feels right to us. That's what I've noticed a lot in, in girls hockey especially, and how I've grown up. I think it's taken a while to like, kind of get out of that habit, focusing on others so much and just focus on myself. 

Lee MJ Elias [38:26 - 38:42]: That's an interesting point. You know, and again, I'm trying to compartmentalize this as, as a male coach or as a, you know, male hockey player, because I'm realizing, you know, points have no problem not doing that. Right? Yeah, you're generalizing for sure. 

Hayley Scamurra [38:42 - 38:43]: But like, yeah, same. 

Lee MJ Elias [38:43 - 39:19]: You know, it's interesting when you think about, especially hockey, IQ and creativity in the game. You know, if you have someone just doing everything you say and you're not aware that they're doing that. You know, I think about that from, from, you know, development, not in the hockey sense, but just as a personal sense of, you know, we want players to be creative. Right. So I asked that question honestly as someone learning to be educated, because as we said earlier, it's okay not be okay, it's we've said it before. I'm. I'm never going to understand what it is to be a woman. And that's okay, too. That's why we have to have these conversations. I do want to ask this of both of you now as well. I'm sorry, Gabby, were you going to say something? I apologize. 

Gabbie Hughes [39:20 - 39:21]: No. 

Lee MJ Elias [39:21 - 39:22]: Okay, my bad. I thought I heard. 

Gabbie Hughes [39:22 - 39:23]: Just loving the conversation. 

Lee MJ Elias [39:24 - 39:56]: Me too. We'd be remiss if we didn't ask both of you this question as well. Of what? You know, as much as you want to get into it, what do you do to practice your mental fitness? What are your reps look like? Because in part of learning how to work out your mind, we have to hear what other people do, right? And I guarantee you there'll be people listening that go, you know what? I've. That's a great idea. I got to try that. So. So, Haley, I'll start with you and then, and then we'll go to you. Gabby, just what do you do on the daily basis to work on your mind and work on your mental fitness? 

Hayley Scamurra [39:59 - 40:28]: Man, it just depends on what kind of mood I'm in, I guess. I. I've liked journaling in the past, listening to certain music and then like, kind of just like zoning out into that music. Talking to friends, talking to people about, like anything I'm kind of going through, I'm a very like, open, very open book. Especially with like close friends of mine, Gabby included in that. I think we both kind of abide by that. We're very open with each other and like, hey, I'm struggling today. Like, I just need a buddy to just sit next to and not speak. 

Gabbie Hughes [40:28 - 40:29]: Right. 

Hayley Scamurra [40:30 - 40:45]: So. Because there's not always something you can really say to help someone when they're going through something, but just by being there physically present, however that might look, is also super beneficial. So those are my mental health tips. 

Gabbie Hughes [40:46 - 43:10]: Tips and tricks. Yeah, mine are very similar. I feel like when I was diagnosed in 2018, something I always tell people is like, you're the therapist you go to first. Honestly, probably isn't going to be the therapist for you. I think finding somebody that you can openly talk to and feel great when you walk in and walk out of that session, it's hard. I went through like, I think seven within a year of like, yeah, no, this isn't. I don't feel. No, I think I'm going to try somebody else, you know, so finding that right person took a long time. But once I did, like, the tricks I learned, and just having somebody to talk to about all those things. And that was a huge one for me is. Is therapy. I'm. I make sure I stay on top of that. Always have that outlet of. Of my therapy sessions. But if I don't have that, I like to draw. I have the most childish coloring book, the thick line. So I don't go out of the lines. I just color, put on a podcast, put on music, color, Spend time just letting my brain really shut off from whatever I'm going through. Spending time with people that bring me up, whether that's family, friends, a pet, an animal. Yeah, I think I have a lot of other ones. Like, I'm really starting to feel like anxiety is coming in. I do. I count my fingers a lot. That's something I do just to get that skin contact in and feel, okay, my body's here. Where. Where am I? Another one is. It's the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. It's name five things I can see. Name four things I can smell. Go down that list of using the five senses just to reground myself and be like, okay, here I am. Let's bring our emotions back in. Okay, how do we now handle this with a better, better outlook on it than that full panic of, oh, my God, my anxiety is coming in. What do I do? You know, so those are just. Yeah, some of the things that, that I do when I start to feel myself kind of getting into a funk or. Yeah, feel something coming on. So. 

Hayley Scamurra [43:11 - 43:25]: Yeah. Another thing I forgot to mention is just like breathing exercises. I just do like deep breaths, like in for like three seconds, out for three seconds, and I kind of will, like count it out and then just like close my eyes and just. It really helps to like with stimulation and everything. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:25 - 43:52]: You know what's interesting too, is all of these methods are ways of getting present. Right. And I think that's something else that we need to talk about more about, you know, when, when you're having anxiety, typically you're in the past or the future somewhere in your mind. And all these exercises again, you know, rubbing your fingertips, breathing, they bring you back to the present moment. Because not all the time, but most of the time there are no problems in the present moment, Right? 

Gabbie Hughes [43:52 - 43:53]: Yep. 

Lee MJ Elias [43:53 - 44:27]: And our minds are wired to not be there. You know what, what I find, and you know, I like to bring this up too, is that when you're going through these moments, it's funny how your mind might even fight you to not get present. Your mind goes, that breathing thing is stupid or. No, but you, you. You build up the reps to. I don't want to say force, but. But to. To initiate. Of, no, I am going to do this now. Right? Is that. Is that part of the process as well? Do you. Do you hear that thought or do you feel that of that side of your brain that says, this is dumb. Don't do it. 

Gabbie Hughes [44:28 - 45:24]: 100. I still, I still feel the things that I was raised up to believe of, like, just go for, you're fine, you're fine. Just go sit down with the family. You're. You're. It's okay. Like, put it on the back burner, you know, like, just don't think about it. Bury it. And when I do that and I try to bury those emotions, I end up having the biggest meltdown of the century two days later. And I'm like, why is this all coming on? It's like, well, you put it off and let it build up for the last three days saying, oh, I don't need to deal with it right now, or don't do those stupid little tricks. You're fine. You know, so, yeah, it is still a challenge. I still hear myself, like, trying to do that, but giving yourself the grace and allowing yourself to feel those emotions and be. Sit with them for a little bit and okay, how do we. How do we deal with these and get out of these instead of just pushing it down and going on in daily life till I have a huge. 

Lee MJ Elias [45:24 - 45:33]: Breakdown and identifying those emotions too. I always give that advice to kind of call out what you're feeling. I'm angry. I'm scared. 

Gabbie Hughes [45:34 - 45:34]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [45:34 - 45:42]: Because when you, when you label them, you actually immediately take power away from them because they've. They've hijacked your mind in that moment. 

Gabbie Hughes [45:42 - 45:42]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [45:42 - 46:33]: Right. And. And the other analogy, I'm glad you brought it up, man. Emotions are a pressure cooker. You know, it's the, the science on this one. I was. It's. If you, if you bottle up enough, it's gonna explode. It's. And. And I'm guilty of this. In adulthood, we all are. Right? And look, look, there are. I do believe this. There are times where you've got to say, okay, this might not be the right moment to pop. Right? Like, I've. I've got to hold it together. But you, you know, you gotta breathe afterwards. You gotta find ways to get that out. I love that you're both bringing this up because we don't teach it enough and we don't acknowledge it enough. And when you're a kid and you feel something you might not necessarily recognize that that feeling's not gonna last forever. When you're a kid, you think that anger is gonna last forever. Right. So anyway, I'll digress heavily if I do that. Go ahead, Haley, you're up. 

Hayley Scamurra [46:34 - 46:42]: Yeah, I was just gonna say we've kind of touched on it a little bit. But, like, how can, like, coaches, parents and teammates create that, like, men, healthy team culture and what could that look like? 

Gabbie Hughes [46:43 - 49:03]: Yeah, I feel like it always. I think the biggest thing is, is leadership. Usually in youth, that that comes from the coaches right away. Once you get a little bit older, the coaches to the captains and then to the rest of the group, I think that's huge. But if you are in those leadership positions, whether coach, captain, or someone without a letter, but you do have those leadership qualities. I think vulnerability is the biggest thing in the entire world. Just to get those conversations going. I think that's something that I try to do. If I'm having a bad day. I try to be vulnerable with somebody new on the team and just let them know, hey, I just had the worst day at the rink. I was so bad, I should be done with hockey. Like, you go to these big, you know, you're just kind of making it more than it is, but it gives that teammate the opportunity to see, okay, somebody else is feeling this in the same way that maybe I do. And now I have somebody that I know relates, I can go to them. So I try to do that. But I think just having that conversation and opening up the door with whether it's vulnerability or just laying a foundation of, hey, we're gonna feel a roller coaster of emotions this season. It's a long season. We're playing a lot of games. You're gonna feel emotions, whether they're the highest of highs or the lowest of lows. And I just want to open that door and let you guys know you are gonna feel those things. But I'm gonna be here to help them. Whether it's the peaks, the pits, we'll get through them together. And my door is always open. Feel free to come and talk to me if you don't feel comfortable talking to a parent. I think just setting that groundwork from day one is super important for kids to feel. Okay, they care about me as a person, not just as a hockey player. That they want me to be is huge for especially young kids to see a coach. Okay, they value me as a human and they care about me as a person. And with a well being, rather than just a hockey player, they get to Coach and say, here's our forecheck. Go do it. And if you don't, you're gonna sit. You know, like, you get to see. Okay, they care about me. I think just setting that stage is super, super important. 

Lee MJ Elias [49:04 - 49:35]: Yeah. It brings up a perfect segue to our next question, Gabby, is that, you know, identity is so important. And I always encourage parents to tell their kids, you're more than just a hockey player, because you are. I mean, it's just. That's just reality. So you're a professional hockey player. Right. It is part of your identity. But as we've gone through in this episode, you do so much more outside of hockey, so how do you compartmentalize those identities and maybe not fall into a I'm only a hockey player type mentality? 

Gabbie Hughes [49:36 - 50:39]: Yeah, that's something I worked on in therapy for years. I feel like you've always just. Whether it's, I come home and I'm at my grocery store or run into someone from high school or meet somebody new, it's always introduced as, oh, she's. You're the hockey star. Oh, you're the hockey player. I'm like, yeah, but I also am going to be a teacher, and I'm really passionate about this. Like, I'm a human, you know, like. But you're constantly reminded that people see you as a hockey player. And I think it took me a really long time to flip the mentality of that being my identity to being something that was an honor for people to think, okay, they know me as a hockey player, but that's not who I am. It's a. It's a thing that I still deal with of. If I don't make this, is my family gonna think the same of me? You know, am I letting them down? And they constantly are reminding me, like, you could be done with hockey tomorrow, and we're still gonna love you. 

Lee MJ Elias [50:39 - 50:40]: Yeah. 

Gabbie Hughes [50:40 - 51:39]: And they constantly have to remind me of that. But it's that thing of I've grown up my whole life of being the hockey player. The one of two people from my town that went Division 1 for girls hockey. The. You know, so that always does stick with you. But once I found things that I'm passionate about and things that I consciously do every day that aren't anything to do with hockey is when I really started to see I am more than just a hockey player. That's not who I am. It's something I love. It's something I'm passionate about, and I'm lucky enough to be good enough to do it at a professional level, but it's not who I am. But yeah, it definitely took a lot of conversations in my own head and using the right words and everything to do that. But when I found other passions, whether it's arts and crafts, reading, Sophie Squad, different things, I'm like, there's so much more to me than just the game. 

Lee MJ Elias [51:40 - 51:46]: It's a beautiful answer. Yeah, you said that so well. Yeah. Again, Haley, I'd love your thoughts on this as well. 

Hayley Scamurra [51:46 - 52:30]: For you, I honestly just learned from Gabby there a little bit, to be honest with you. I think I was just having deja vu hearing you. Like, that's exactly what I go through. It's like, oh, you're the hockey star, you're the hockey player. And it's like, like, yes, I am. And it's like, okay to be grateful about that. And like, we are in a special and unique position, but it's not who we are. But I think it's definitely been hard to kind of find hobbies outside of it because we're so engulfed in it. Like, we want to always get better. We want to always make our teams better. We're trying to like, stay, you know, be on the national team, be on the pro team. Like, there's all these different kind of factors that we're trying to like, stay on top of that. It's like, when do I have time to do these other activities? 

Gabbie Hughes [52:30 - 52:31]: You know what I mean? 

Hayley Scamurra [52:31 - 53:11]: So it's like, for me, I love puzzling. That's a big one for me, but that's just me chilling at home. Puzzling. Uh huh. Gabby always helps me with the puzzles. What else? I mean, I just love spending time with family. Like, if I have free time, I just want to chill, do nothing, and be with family. So I find that, like, even those things do fill me up in a certain way, which is great. And I'm excited for the next chapter whenever it does come. But I, you know, hopefully not anytime soon. But yeah, that part, it's definitely scary, like thinking about life after hockey because it has been such a huge part of our life. So to say that, like, oh, I definitely have it covered is pretty. 

Gabbie Hughes [53:12 - 53:12]: It's. 

Hayley Scamurra [53:12 - 53:23]: I don't, I don't. I'm still, still working through it and I'm sure I'll continue navigating it as the career goes on and as the career ends, so. But I learned from you there, Gab, so that was cool. 

Lee MJ Elias [53:24 - 55:29]: I will tell you both that one of the biggest fallacies in life is that anyone knows what they're doing. Like, the older I get it, you start to realize no one knows what they're doing. Nobody. Like, we're all. We're all trying to figure it out. It's. It's just a big journey. And you know what I love about both of your answers is that it's just okay to have other interests. It's okay to explore other things. And what's cool about, you know, being in hockey is that you learn all of this work ethic and how to deal with adversity, and the day you realize you can apply that to anything will change your life. Right? There's so many young people. It's like, no, it's only for hockey. It's. It's for everything. You know, just to kind of add on to this conversation, gang. You know, look, we run a very popular podcast here. I'm involved in hockey pretty heavily. Not to the. To the. Nobody says I'm a hockey star, but people say to me, hey, you're the coach. You're the guy from that podcast. And you know what's funny? Sometimes I'll say back if we get in a conversation, you know what else I am? I'm a dad. I'm a. I'm a husband. I'm a brother. I'm a son. You know, and those are parts of my identity, too. And, man, how easy it is to forget that. I take a lot of pride in being a father. You know, I always say this to people, too, when I depart this planet. If all anyone says about me was, oh, he was a really great hockey person, boy, I mean, man, did I fail, right? Like, when I. When people think of me, I really hope they think he really loved his kids and his wife and. And he really loved that game, too. I mean, that was a big part of his life. But, you know, that's part of the identity is the family. And I. You both mentioned that. And I think it's so important that everyone connects to that. And look, some. Some families do that better than others. I will say that bluntly, but it's. It's on all of us to make sure that that happens. Yeah, Gabby, I do have to ask this question. You have built Sophie Squad. You part of it? I mean, that whole team has. Where are we going with that next five years beyond, you know, what's. What's the vision with that right now? Yeah, forward. 

Gabbie Hughes [55:29 - 58:24]: We actually have a big meeting coming up next month to kind of lay the groundwork of the next five years and what our big plan is. Um, yeah, year one, we Didn't. We had no idea how big we were going to get, right? And we ended up getting enough. Enough donations in that one year that we partnered with Children's hospital to donate 500 or $50,000 to their inpatient outpatient center that they were building. So we were just donating 10,000 each year. So that was kind of our big five year, was each year we had to make sure we were reaching that goal to be able to raise those funds to donate that 10,000 dol. And we're coming up on the last year of that. So we want to find another big organization that we can really invest in and give our profits to. But we just want to continue to grow the awareness. Slowly but surely, we're getting more people that want to be involved. And our big, big, big dream is to have. We have our board. Right now, it's just one. One board of the president, the vp, treasurer, secretary, and then some helpers, you know, but we want to get other athletic boards going so that if a soccer team reaches out, it's not just us five. Okay. We have this soccer event. We have football teams reaching out. We have hockey. Like, we start to be like, oh, my gosh, how do we do all these? We can't be places at the same time. So our big dream is just to get more people that want to be involved in spreading our message and can help us kind of branch out to more sports than just hockey. And I think that's one of the biggest one. We've really. We've really talked about wanting to get some sort of program going in the state of Minnesota specifically for almost mandated education of mental health before the hockey season starts. Something along those lines of before the season starts, whether it's a big conference or just the coaches or whatever, but educating people on mental health. So if something does come up throughout the season, people know what to do and what actions to take. Those are kind of our big dreams goals. But, yeah, it's. It's a small group of us with a really big vision and a really big passion. So hopefully we can get more people on board to make those dreams come true. But otherwise, our group is so ambitious and loves what they do. So I have no doubt that whoever's in charge, my dad's the president, they'll get it done. They'll get it done and everything like that. So, yeah, it's been fun, but we just want to continue to grow and reach more people and get our message across to more kiddos. 

Lee MJ Elias [58:25 - 58:36]: Well, I appreciate you sharing that. And if there's anything we can do to assist you in those future plans, I'll help you. Let us know. And I also appreciate you reminding everybody there are other sports out there aside from ice hockey. Yeah. 

Gabbie Hughes [58:36 - 58:37]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [58:37 - 58:44]: In our world, I think that can be hard to remember sometimes. Haley, did you have anything else to add before I close this out? 

Hayley Scamurra [58:45 - 59:00]: Oh, no. I'm just super proud of you and love seeing everything you've done with Sophie Squad and just hockey in general. I think your vulnerability makes you strong and brave. And, you know, I learned a lot from you in that for sure. So thank you for that. 

Gabbie Hughes [59:01 - 59:04]: No, I was scammies. I love you so much. 

Hayley Scamurra [59:05 - 59:06]: Love you too. 

Lee MJ Elias [59:07 - 59:55]: I'm not quite sure how to follow up that. So I'll. I'll do right out. Look, look. Gabby is showing us true leadership is not just about skill. It's about heart. Also courage and. And helping others find a voice. Those are all things we discussed today. And her story is a powerful reminder that the game is always bigger than the scoreboard. And it behooves us all to remember that, especially when you're in that tight playoff game and it's tie and you don't know what the rules are for overtime. Life is bigger than that. And listen, if you want to learn more about Sophie's squad or how you can support mental wellness in hockey, we'll have plenty of links in our show notes. Check that out. It's not hard to find online. Just search on Google Sophie Squad and you'll get the information that you need. So I want to thank Gabby again for joining us. For Haley, I'm Lee. You've been listening to our girls play hockey. We'll see you next time on the rink. Everybody. Take care and have fun.