July 30, 2024

Our Girls Play Hockey - How to Start a Girls’ Hockey Program feat. Katelyn Parker of the Seattle Kraken

Welcome to the premiere episode of “Our Girls Play Hockey,” a new series within the “Our Kids Play Hockey” podcast network. In this episode, hosts Lee Elias, Mike Bonelli, and Sheri Hudspeth from the Vegas Golden Knights, dive into the intricacies of starting a girls’ youth hockey program. Our expert guest, Katelyn Parker, shares her invaluable insights and experiences.

Starting a Girls’ Hockey Program:

•Importance of having passionate leaders.

•Initial steps: Contacting district representatives and understanding rules and regulations.

•Grassroots approach: Building a sustainable program by starting at the lower levels and creating a strong pipeline.

Essential Components for a Successful Program:

•Importance of passionate leadership.

•Required resources: Ice time, uniforms, facilities, and coaches.

•Creative solutions: Utilizing different age groups and spaces to build a community and increase participation.

Challenges and Solutions:

•Overcoming hurdles in starting a new program.

•The importance of building mass numbers for a sustainable team.

•Balancing different age groups and creating inclusive environments.

Role Models and Representation:

•The impact of female coaches and role models on young players.

•Successful events and initiatives that promote girls’ hockey.

Creative Outreach and Marketing Strategies:

•Using social media and community events to spread the word.

•Collaborating with organizations like Girl Scouts and local schools.

•Hosting try hockey for free events and leveraging NHL resources.

Personal Insights and Experiences:

•Sheri and Katelyn’s experiences in growing girls’ hockey on the West Coast.

•Success stories and impactful moments from their careers.

Takeaways:

•Passion and leadership are critical in starting and sustaining a girls’ hockey program.

•Utilize available resources creatively to build a strong community.

•Promote inclusivity and create safe spaces for girls to thrive in hockey.

•Leverage social media and community events to increase visibility and participation.

If you have any questions or need further advice on starting a girls’ hockey program, feel free to reach out to the team at team@ourkidsplayhockey.com. Stay tuned for more episodes of “Our Girls Play Hockey,” where we will continue to explore and discuss various topics related

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00:51 - Starting a Girls Hockey Program

09:46 - Developing Girls Hockey Programs and Resources

19:49 - Building a Positive Girls Hockey Culture

30:09 - Expanding Girls Hockey Programs

39:37 - Leveraging Women's Hockey Growth

44:14 - Inspiring Role Models in Hockey

51:57 - Promoting Girls Hockey Programs

59:40 - Promoting Girls Hockey Programs Through Passion

WEBVTT

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Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome to our newest series on Our Kids Play Hockey, aptly titled Our Girls Play Hockey.

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I'm Lee Elias and I'm joined by Mike Benelli and our newest addition to the hosting team, sherry Hudspeth from the Vegas Golden Knights.

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Our goal with this show is to tackle the topics and discussions surrounding girls' youth hockey, to better give the game something for everyone and, simply put, if you're involved in youth hockey in any way, we are going to provide value and insight to create both a better environment and experience for everyone involved.

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The format for this show is going to differ slightly from our normal programming.

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Each episode will introduce a topic or a question to discuss, and each episode will have a featured expert panelist from around the game to engage in that discussion.

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For this episode, we will be discussing how to start a girls program, and our expert panelist is the former captain of Colgate University's ice hockey team, who today serves as the player development senior manager with the Seattle Kraken, a team you may have heard of.

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Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming Kaitlyn Parker to the show today.

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Kaitlyn, thank you for joining us on Our Girls Play Hockey.

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Awesome.

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Thanks for having me.

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No, thank you for being here.

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I'm going to toss this right over to Sherry.

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Sherry, you're franchise 31 with the Knights.

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We're interviewing franchise 32 with the Kraken.

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Where do we even start today?

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Yeah, caitlin, really excited you're here.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Caitlin and I have worked together here in the West Coast growing girls hockey through our work through USA Hockey.

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We're both in the NHLCA Coaches Development Program and, yeah, we're both just doing a lot to grow youth hockey here on the West Coast.

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So excited to talk to Caitlin today and I think one of the first questions I want to get into is, you know, starting a new girls program, starting a new girls team get asked a lot, you know, by parents, volunteers, if they don't have access to an NHL club and the resources that we have with NHL club is, say, you're in like Wyoming or Oregon or something like that, and you want to start a girls team.

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You know what are some of the questions that we need to ask to get started to grow girls team, like do you go to a board?

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Do you start an independent team?

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Where do we start?

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I think, yeah, it's a.

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It's a hard question and I know there are some stipulations through USA hockey with if you're a new association or existing association.

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So I always say, start with your district rep and just try to ask some questions about hey, what does this take?

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What rules or regulations are in place that maybe potential hurdles that I'm going to have to jump over to starting these.

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And I think the biggest thing and sharing you and I probably have a lot of experiences that is starting at the grassroots level.

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So mass numbers is so important to starting a sustainable girls hockey team.

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Finding ways that you can get in to that lower level at the start.

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So now you're building your pipeline for a longer time, which just creates more longevity within your program.

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Now, saying that that doesn't always work and I think, too, figuring out ways that you can be creative and utilize your space and maybe it is utilizing different ages together to build this community and really pull the girls in and get more girls involved, because the more girls you have on the ice, then the better is.

00:03:15.287 --> 00:03:27.176
Hey, we might be able to form a team or we can play an in-house league and you're still giving it a similar experience for those players and families, experience for those players and families, and from there that's just the mini step.

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I would say to trying to build this long staircase to having a sustainable team.

00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:36.669
You know, Caitlin, it's funny we're bringing this up.

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I always feel like we should have titled this episode.

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So you Want to Build a Girls Hockey Team?

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Yeah, One of the questions and you're kind of diving into this is, I think we should establish for the listeners the must haves to starting a girls program.

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Right, you know, and I'm thinking things like that, you need to think about, if you want to do this, ice time, uniforms, facilities, coaches, et cetera.

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You talked about the district rep, you talked about the people you need to go through, right?

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So why don't we, why don't we identify the must haves?

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the things that you need to think about if you're looking to do this to starting a girls program.

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To be honest, I think it's just a really passionate leader.

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You don't have that.

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It is so hard.

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There are so many hurdles, there are so many different challenges that you're going to face throughout the time of doing it and the leader is the person that's going to be the face of what you're trying to do.

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They're going to have to share the message of your programming to people, to families, to get them excited about it.

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And then, from a non-ice standard um, like they're the ones that is leading it right, like if they bring the energy, they bring the excitement it makes those players and those girls and families want to come back to the rink every single time, which now you start to develop that love and I think everyone on this podcast understands like hockey is is definitely like a passion project.

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It's something that you love, like you're ingrained in it.

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It's develop that love and I think everyone on this podcast understands like hockey is is definitely like a passion project.

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It's something that you love, like you're ingrained in it.

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It's probably had some great memories in your life or different experiences that have led you to where you are today and has been part of it.

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But for those that have never experienced that, you have to allow them into that family in that larger community right away, and once you do that, I think it's they get hooked and now you can start to build it.

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But it starts with that first forward facing person that is going to talk to these people to convince them hey, you should spend your sunny July 20th in a freezing ice cold rink, right Like maybe if you're in Las Vegas, it's awesome.

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Yeah, 110.

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Way too rainy.

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All the rest of the year we want to be outside.

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So how do we create that to make people want to come to rings?

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I love that you said that, because we are recording this in June and it's very hot right now as we record these episodes, and you may be listening to this episode in the summer or the winter or any time during the year.

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The other thing I love about the passion that you bring up is I know 100% there is someone listening to this episode right now.

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It might be a mom, might be a dad, might be someone just graduated college who goes I am that person and you're affirming that person right now by saying this.

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So let's kind of turn towards that a little bit, because I want to motivate that person right now.

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They're listening to you.

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What's your message to them before we move forward of?

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You know, let's make this happen.

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You know what I mean.

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Yeah, I think it will be the greatest challenge of your life, but the greatest joy of your life as well, and that is something that everyone thinks.

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Youth hockey is maybe sunshine and rainbows.

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The reality is there are some dark and cloudy, gray days, but at the same time, I think when you see a kid whether it's female or male, or fall in love with this sport and have a light bulb moment, like well, you're teaching them on the ice or anything, that's what makes it worth it, and then it re-energizes you to want to be better for them.

00:06:40.747 --> 00:06:43.512
Um, and that's that's a couple things.

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There is like it's going to be really hard.

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It's going to be really hard, but it's going to be so rewarding.

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At the end of the day too, and and I think youth sports has it's a really hard market.

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It's a hard world to live in because there are so many outside factors that come into play.

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Like if all of us were on this podcast and we had a billion dollars in a rink, we'd probably run something super different if there weren't outside influences coming in and hey, I have an opinion here, or whatnot, and so I think it's a balancing act there that comes into it.

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But at the end of the day, when you find something and you do it for those kids and they love it, then it makes it all worth it.

00:07:20.939 --> 00:07:23.324
Well, if we had a billion dollars in a rink, that would be pretty nuts.

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And I do want to say this too it would be pretty awesome.

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Yeah, everyone on this call.

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I know this just from knowing all of you.

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We've all started a program in some form or some way, some of us multiple times.

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I'll say this too there's not ever been a kid.

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I have coached any kid, any type of kid.

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Anything that I didn't feel the enjoyment in coaching that young person in hockey?

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Right, I think that's one of those myths about the value of coaching someone.

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Right, I, I've loved coaching every kid, for the most part, that I've ever coached, regardless of of race, gender or anything in between.

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Now, someone who has created a lot of programs and does this on a basis daily is mike benelli.

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Mike, I am going to throw it to you because I know you have a question as well.

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Yeah, I mean it's actually to Caitlin and Sherry because I think what you know when you're in the confines of national governing bodies like USA hockey and hockey Canada and and you know a lot of you know we talked about the restrictions and and where you can get players from and how to grow a program.

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Can you maybe both talk a little bit about your experience on as starting these girls programs, the challenges of the and the differences of starting a girls program with a bunch of 14, 15, 16 year olds or, you know, really looking at the organic growth of a program, saying, hey, I'm going to leverage the NHL's learn to play program, I'm going to have a girls only, you know, six you and the patience it takes because you can rock the boat on both ways right, cause I've seen it on both sides Like, hey, I'm a billionaire, I build a rink, I'm stealing every girl from every program that I can get and I'm going to build, I'm going to develop those girls.

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I've developed them by stealing them right.

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Or billionaires, on the show today.

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All right, my first hockey program was from a disgruntled father who said I'm going to start my own program because I hate that program.

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I said, okay, let's go, let's do it.

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So I think it's like one of those things where you know, is it, is it the pros and cons of organically growing?

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Because I think for us on our audience, if you have a mom or dad that's sitting there with a seven-year-old and they're looking at the horizon, they're like, oh my God, there's no girls program here.

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Like later on, but now is the time to start it.

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Like not when you get there, not when you're 15 and go, wow, I don't have girls program, we should start one.

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Well, it's like it's very difficult to do that.

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So maybe just both of you talk a little bit about and maybe how the NHL clubs can even help within this ecosystem of forming that organic growth in the girls game.

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Yes, I can answer this one a couple of ways.

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So if you live in a market, you know you're outside of an NHL market.

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So I was in Johnstown, pennsylvania, and we were about an hour 15 from Pittsburgh.

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So we're kind of outside of that Penguins radius where we didn't have like as much resources as you would if you were in Pittsburgh.

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So they did not have girls hockey in Johnstown but they had boys hockey for 55 years.

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So they had an existing organization with the Johnstown Warriors.

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They were run by a board there and the board did a try hockey for free day for girls and out of this try hockey for free day they got like maybe 20 or 30 girls came but we noticed that they were all this like around the same age where it's like, hey, we can start a 12U girls team here and we had to get an exception to take some eight-year-olds and when we did practice I carried along some seven-year-olds and it's like if you're a girl and you want to play hockey like, we're not going to say no to you, you won't be able to play in the 12 U Paul league games but like you can practice with us if you're seven or eight, you know.

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You know, encouraging those girls to play.

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So a try hockey for free event created a girl's team, so that girl's team.

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So Johnstown organization added one girl's team, so added one girls team.

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So we played the season and then after that you start to lose some right.

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So now we have some girls that can play 14u and we have these eight-year-olds that are, you know, turning nine, so you can just kind of it kind of starts to grow and if you have a good season and we had our social media and and letting people know that there is girls hockey in this town now you know you can organically start to grow from you know that growth event and event and then just slowly, you know, year after year you have to have some patience with it where you're developing girls and taking any girls that want to play hockey and eventually you can start a team and then start to build out a program as they age up and then coming underneath doing more girls try hockey for free events in that town.

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You know, like that that sort of worked with the NHL backing here in Vegas.

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A little bit different.

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We have NHL learn to play where they get the equipment.

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It's a little bit easier, I think, with an NHL resources to get girls in.

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We have, you know, a little more access to ice time than you would in.

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You know a smaller town.

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So, caitlin, do you want to talk about how you're doing it with the Kraken?

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Yeah, I would say the first is finding a North Star.

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Are you building a competitive team?

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Are you building a recreation team?

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Is it learn to play base?

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Like what is that North Star that you're going to?

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And I think it can change.

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You can have this far distance goal and then you can also have shorter goals to it.

00:12:22.222 --> 00:12:36.067
So for us in our first year we were really small and I think it seemed like a lot back then, but now looking at it it seems like, wow, I missed the first year in some ways of it.

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But our first year we really focused just on those grassroots teams.

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So we only offered co-ed in our building and it was just a reason.

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We weren't sure what that clientele is going to be like, where our players were going to come from, and we really leaned on our learn to skate program and through our NHL program that Sherry was talking about, we require all our players to have taken some sort of learn to skate and really fortunate, like, yeah, and you guys do it as well.

00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:13.565
And actually Chad Goodwin came from las vegas, so he came from 31 to 32, which is great, so he knows what it was like and um started a massive learn to skate program.

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That was so great and I think it's.

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It's very rare that you're learning to skate, learn to play.

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Teens talk and communicate and he's been such a great resource for us and I think that's so important that you guys have to be on the same page of it and understanding some.

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Some kids are going to choose to to do skating, and that's totally great, and other kids are going to want to play hockey.

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But how can we make sure that that communication bridge is there between the two so it doesn't feel like you're on separate islands, but working together as a team, um, so we put a lot of resources into that first year and just did a ton of learn to play programs and for us, our learn to play was five to nine, so that is still a pretty big age gap for a lot of kids.

00:13:53.445 --> 00:13:58.523
But then you do have this entry to barrier of there's kids that are 10, 11, 12.

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That took learn to skate and now they want to play.

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We started a program called C-League, which is late start hockey essentially.

00:14:06.370 --> 00:14:09.470
So if you're in that older group it's a little bit longer.

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It's an hour on the ice, it's still once a week.

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You get a jersey.

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You have to come with this different group.

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They're a little bit older, so from a social dynamic it makes them feel a little bit better about it.

00:14:22.102 --> 00:14:38.094
But still, the practices, the ADM, putting them in station base, is very similar and the goal with that is that if it's an 11-year-old they take this SEAL League program for a year and the following year they have the possibility of joining our recreation program at the 12-year level.

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And that was something that was super successful.

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I think we had a ton of kids in that first year.

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And same with our Learn to Play program.

00:14:49.923 --> 00:14:52.049
And again you have such a wide age range that you're getting eight new players coming out of it.

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You're getting rising 10 new players and you can start to build it in that capacity.

00:14:54.820 --> 00:14:57.907
And I think our first year we had six teams.

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It was like two at every age level, from eight, 10, 12.

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And now last year we had 31 teams, not including our team.

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So it is something that all of a sudden it does explode and again, knowing, like Seattle's, a little different market than than Vegas and some of our other NHL clubs where there was existing hockey.

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So it's a balancing act too of hey, we want to start our own thing and build hockey players at the base, because it makes our state stronger, and realizing that parents and players are going to move around, whether that's from our association or to our association, and making it easy and accessible.

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But at the same time we want to make sure everyone can grow, because now we have local competition which, if you are on, I would say, like an island state, like we are, it's you want to be able to drive 20 minutes to play a game versus having to get on a flight and and go somewhere to play five games in a weekend there's a lot coming on this conversation.

00:15:57.317 --> 00:15:58.480
I've written down several questions.

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One of the ones you talked about uh, both caitlin and shry is that communication between clubs or between organizations, aside from this podcast.

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Are there places people can go to communicate about what has worked or hasn't worked within girls hockey, or is that something that needs to be developed, because I imagine that information sharing is vital at this point of growing the sport?

00:16:23.001 --> 00:16:23.625
Super vital.

00:16:23.625 --> 00:16:29.486
I think people sometimes like to hold their cards really close to their chest as well.

00:16:30.749 --> 00:16:31.750
Which is a shame.

00:16:31.851 --> 00:16:40.120
It is, and I think the hard part too is there's no right or wrong way, but the more we can work together the better.

00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:45.092
And again, it is really hard because there's not a mass volume of girls hockey players.

00:16:45.441 --> 00:16:45.600
Right.

00:16:45.681 --> 00:16:52.913
And that, I think, makes people nervous that if they share information or try to build it collectively, sometimes they're going to lose players.

00:16:52.913 --> 00:17:01.335
And again, that's one of the things I think is so great about being funded by the NHL is we have opportunities that I view.

00:17:01.335 --> 00:17:18.883
Opportunities that I view and I know Sherry's done such an awesome, awesome, tremendous job in Vegas is bringing in outside people to become new role models and using and leveraging that funding from the NHL for the female ambassador program to bring people in and, again, welcoming people from all over.

00:17:18.883 --> 00:17:45.969
So whether they're in our association or they're in the association next door, they're the association on the east side of the state welcoming them, them in, because they just might not be able to have that opportunity otherwise and and now they get to be part of it and and I think that's one of the things that we can you can be really savvy with how you you allow people to experience it, at the same time saying, hey, go back to your associations and I think if everyone worked in the sandbox together, it'd be awesome.

00:17:46.369 --> 00:17:55.010
Understanding that's probably not like the all reality, but we get times where you're at a usa hockey event or you're at events that are a little.

00:17:55.010 --> 00:18:12.425
I would say like more switzerland area like geneva you can talk to, and I do think like knowledge is power and, um, if anyone asks me any question, like I'm an open book, I am not by any means reinventing the wheel or have done something so magical that I'm gonna like patent it and sell it for your money.

00:18:12.425 --> 00:18:32.229
So I I think that's one of the things is, if we have more leaders like that, it just helps grow that space even more, and there are a lot of people in in the hockey world that are willing to share well, and I can say too, that when Sherry and our production team were developing the show, one of the main goals is to create that communication right.

00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:41.048
Because while I do understand the select few times where it's good to hold things to your chest, broadly I don't understand why we do that right.

00:18:41.048 --> 00:18:50.008
I think that and this isn't all of hockey, not just girls hockey why would we not share what's working across the board and you can go inter sport with that too.

00:18:50.008 --> 00:18:52.409
This doesn't even have to be limited to just ice hockey, right.

00:18:52.409 --> 00:18:57.119
But I'm I'm with you on this, caitlin, like this should be more of an open book conversation.

00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:58.846
We should be helping each other grow the game.

00:18:58.846 --> 00:19:03.910
The competition should be on the ice, right, not necessarily in growing the game.

00:19:05.012 --> 00:19:09.607
You both brought up something else, too, that I want to touch on that I actually didn't think about until you started talking about it.

00:19:09.607 --> 00:19:19.269
There's a culture piece to all this, in a team building essence, and, sherry, you actually made me think of this when you said that we have this 12U team but we invite seven-year-olds and eight-year-olds out to practice.

00:19:19.269 --> 00:19:22.801
Obviously, in most organizations that's somewhat unheard of.

00:19:22.801 --> 00:19:23.682
You would never do that.

00:19:23.682 --> 00:19:24.962
You would never invite younger kids.

00:19:24.962 --> 00:19:33.229
But when it comes to the amount of players and inspiring I don't want to say the next generation, but inspiring younger players to continue in the game.

00:19:33.229 --> 00:19:38.833
It's a big deal to invite them on the ice and say, like you said, hey, can't play in the games, but you're welcome here.

00:19:39.653 --> 00:19:39.874
Yeah.

00:19:40.054 --> 00:19:45.577
I think that's probably a major part of this, maybe in areas where girls hockey is not as prominent.

00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:49.880
I think if you have a heavy girls population, obviously, yeah, that probably won't work there.

00:19:49.880 --> 00:20:01.832
But if you're in like smaller rural towns, or even us in Vegas, where it's like there's not that many girls that play hockey, you know, like, compared to the boys, we have thousands of boys that play hockey but there's hundreds of girls that play hockey.

00:20:01.832 --> 00:20:06.457
So it's like if you can get five or six more girls, that's five or six more girls.

00:20:06.457 --> 00:20:11.946
You know, if they're in the game and they get an opportunity to be around the game, maybe make some friends that are girls.

00:20:11.946 --> 00:20:15.069
You know, like same for us, like our programming is co-ed.

00:20:15.069 --> 00:20:18.089
The only difference is, like our Vegas Junior Golden Knights.

00:20:18.089 --> 00:20:20.722
That's where it starts to really be girls only.

00:20:20.722 --> 00:20:27.111
So I mean, if you're seven or eight and you want to come out and practice, like this year, we're coach, I'm coaching 10, you have one girl, that's eight.

00:20:27.111 --> 00:20:30.894
You know it's like if you want to play, I'm not going to stop you from playing, especially.

00:20:31.355 --> 00:20:51.825
You know, like I don't want to say no to girls, cause it's so hard to get girls into hockey in.

00:20:51.825 --> 00:20:58.284
I probably had probably like seven girls only programs that I've kind of initiated and started and and they've always branched off of the boys.

00:20:58.284 --> 00:21:02.242
I mean, it's always, you know, it's, at the end of the day it's a business and you're like well how do I leverage?

00:21:02.262 --> 00:21:02.845
how do I get more?

00:21:02.845 --> 00:21:06.311
I see all these, all these sisters are here and all these little kids are running around the rink.

00:21:06.311 --> 00:21:07.662
How, how do we leverage them?

00:21:07.662 --> 00:21:23.230
And because of my, my usa lacrosse background and and seeing at the very young levels, it isn't co-ed like at lacrosse, it's like it's girls and boys and they and they divvy it up by age and you know hockey needs to catch up and again there's the barriers of money and equipment and that kind of stuff.

00:21:23.289 --> 00:21:32.559
And you know you look at girls lacrosse and how easy it is, right, you just get a stick and run use your soccer cleats, where the boys have to get helmets and shoulder pads and elbow pads and all this other stuff.

00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.223
So I think that's where hockey is very similar in.

00:21:36.223 --> 00:21:39.208
You know, how do you build your growth model?

00:21:39.208 --> 00:21:50.481
And I think I found and I'd love to hear from both of you because you've both played at very high levels in professional ranks and college ranks, university has been around a lot of pro girls and women.

00:21:50.501 --> 00:22:03.896
I've always found and this is my own personal experience that grouping girls together at the earliest ages six, seven, eight, nine years old it's so much more social and inviting and different.

00:22:03.896 --> 00:22:09.367
And again, I'm not saying you have to teach the girls differently.

00:22:09.367 --> 00:22:12.200
I yelled just as loud with the girls, the boys it's, but it's.

00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:16.270
Would you agree that it's for a parent that doesn't have the patience?

00:22:16.270 --> 00:22:22.522
Like here's dad, right, he played at Colgate and he's sitting there like she's gotta be, she's gotta be traveling across the country.

00:22:22.522 --> 00:22:24.105
At this point she's eight or no.

00:22:24.145 --> 00:22:24.707
How is she not?

00:22:24.727 --> 00:22:26.569
playing, playing an elite travel team.

00:22:26.569 --> 00:22:36.705
But you say, well, no, it's, it's social, it's it's more about the longer we keep them in the game, the better athletes are going to pop out and they're going to, they're going to expand.

00:22:36.705 --> 00:22:53.670
And I think within certain locations you still need that base because parents need to understand it's great that your daughter is a great athlete at six, but you need to make sure that we bring them all with us because when she's 12, there's no program here anymore, especially in small little towns.

00:22:53.670 --> 00:22:58.023
And now you're traveling, you know, on a plane to go play for another girls team.

00:22:58.023 --> 00:23:14.032
So maybe just to talk about the, the social aspect of why the girls game is so important to you know, try to put them together earlier and then have those great mentors and, you know, other women coaching those teams to to bring more, you know, girls into the tent.

00:23:18.362 --> 00:23:22.720
We, we don't say one thing or the other, we let it be up to the family.

00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:25.448
So we offer both pathways, um.

00:23:25.448 --> 00:23:31.711
So now we're we're in our second year of offering um just girls team within our association.

00:23:31.711 --> 00:23:35.990
It's still all recreation right now, um, but we let them choose.

00:23:35.990 --> 00:23:43.367
So, hey, you can come to co-ed and this is what it'll look like, or you can come to our all girls program and you'll be on a team.

00:23:43.367 --> 00:23:55.190
But we're in an area where our league, our girls teams, will still play against boys teams or co-ed teams at other associations, and the reason we did that is from just a easier scheduling.

00:23:55.190 --> 00:23:57.663
So they're still playing in like that local youth league.

00:23:57.663 --> 00:24:00.955
And there's a couple other associations that do have all girls.

00:24:00.955 --> 00:24:10.963
So maybe one every four games they're playing, they're going to play against an all girls competition and we work with those other associations to set up like a mini girls league within the greater league.

00:24:11.464 --> 00:24:18.211
But for us, when we were really analyzing what was the best thing, I'm a firm believer, like you, have to play.

00:24:18.211 --> 00:24:45.077
So if I'm telling the girls they can only play six games in a season because there's not that much competition where co-ed teams get 24 games, I don't think that's fair and from a development standpoint, they're not getting that in-game experience where we can put them in small area games all we want, but there is something about playing another team with a different jersey on and you're going head to head with them, and I think there's a lot of development that takes place in that.

00:24:45.077 --> 00:24:55.420
Creative freedom, free form play, which is we don't have a lot of anymore with kids, so I think it's one of those things too is okay.

00:24:55.420 --> 00:25:02.203
How can we utilize our space with what we have and ensuring that the girls can still get development?

00:25:02.203 --> 00:25:03.648
They still get the same number of games.

00:25:03.648 --> 00:25:05.946
Now, understanding, is it ideal and perfect?

00:25:05.946 --> 00:25:18.653
No, but being upfront in our communication with our families of hey, this is what it looks like, really good, but we don't tell them which way they can go so they can join co-ed and they can play all girls.

00:25:18.653 --> 00:25:26.000
And then we provide opportunities where there is that crossover Because, like you said, there might be a parent that just wants their girl.

00:25:26.221 --> 00:25:27.042
It's for ease.

00:25:27.042 --> 00:25:43.968
Their 8U boy plays at this time on rink two, and then their 8U co-ed girl could play at this time, and now I only have to go to the rink one night or twice a week, but on the same night, and so I think we we give it up to the families, and every family has a different thought process behind it.

00:25:43.968 --> 00:26:00.805
So our thought was we didn't want to put these, these families, in buckets for them now, if they have questions about it, they want to try out one or the other, totally open to helping them walk through that process and navigate what that might look like, while still providing that bridge over that.

00:26:00.805 --> 00:26:09.621
Hey, this AU girl in co-ed, she can come play on this tournament with all girls and is that the experience she wants or does she really want to go back there?

00:26:09.621 --> 00:26:28.329
And, like you said, mike, are some, some parents that think that there's a certain path and my girl has to play boys only hockey till they're a senior in high school and that's what they'll get their full ride, scholarships and when, as we all know, like the journey and path, you could start playing hockey at 14 and be an Olympian.

00:26:28.329 --> 00:26:32.425
Like there is no guaranteed way to do it.

00:26:32.506 --> 00:26:45.169
And and so I think that's been really successful for us is allowing them to choose, because now they can never say, well, you told me to do it this way and at the same time, it's not a perfect fit puzzle for every family.

00:26:45.269 --> 00:26:50.545
So it might be this girl wants to play here because they feel like they're more challenged.

00:26:50.545 --> 00:27:05.912
Or it might be the social dynamic they want to be in this space here and, and I think, continuously providing opportunities that females can get both adds to that social piece of it and then it also allows them again the rink's fun.

00:27:05.912 --> 00:27:07.374
The rink is fun.

00:27:07.374 --> 00:27:12.449
They want to come, whether it's to hang out with their friends in the locker room or it's to be on the ice, and I mean competition is fun.

00:27:12.449 --> 00:27:13.920
So maybe it's to be on the ice and I mean competition is fun.

00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:22.508
So maybe it's that piece of it that you're adding to this big bucket of what's fun for that player and that family and I think that's been really good for us.

00:27:22.508 --> 00:27:39.358
And again, understanding that as we continue to build out that there is going to be certain pathways, that hey, there's an all girls trajectory and there's a co-ed trajectory and at any time you can go between the two of them yeah, and I think what you're saying too is universal to boys, girls, anything I mean.

00:27:39.398 --> 00:27:40.923
Bottom line is I mean we like.

00:27:40.923 --> 00:27:41.705
It's not like we.

00:27:41.705 --> 00:27:45.987
You know, and I didn't mean to make it sound like you know I isolate the girls into this whole another.

00:27:45.987 --> 00:27:47.794
You know silo, but it is.

00:27:47.794 --> 00:27:48.817
There is a like.

00:27:48.877 --> 00:27:52.769
I've watched even in within, you know, some of the beginner.

00:27:52.769 --> 00:28:10.690
If I could take some of the not so aggressive boys and the ones that are a little bit more nervous, the ones that are a little bit not as just the high-level personalities, and I put them in a different environment with the other boys that are like that, they actually flourish quicker and get better.

00:28:10.690 --> 00:28:13.986
And then when the girls get to 11, they're kicking the boys' ass anyway.

00:28:13.986 --> 00:28:14.667
So it doesn't matter.

00:28:14.667 --> 00:28:18.303
Like it, it turns into a, it turns into a place where you're like oh my God, like I got.

00:28:18.303 --> 00:28:29.150
You know, I'm building competition within my own group and I love the fact that if you could have the girls migrate in and out until they kind of find their footing.

00:28:29.990 --> 00:28:42.808
Um, you know, at the end of the day, when you talk to a lot of women, they're like okay, well, yeah, when I got, we just had Megan Bozak in a in a like a round table discussion and said listen, when I hit like 12 years old and check and started, it was hard.

00:28:42.868 --> 00:28:43.069
It was.

00:28:43.069 --> 00:28:44.132
It makes it hard.

00:28:44.132 --> 00:28:56.122
So if there's nothing there, for me, though, in my, in my community, after 12 and 13, which starts with you guys right, it starts with growing the base so that there are more girls playing at that age Later on.

00:28:56.122 --> 00:29:07.551
I think that's the most important piece is to remember that what you guys are doing and this goes to, I guess, our original question where what would you tell parents and organizers and directors at the youth level?

00:29:07.551 --> 00:29:11.651
You know what are some, you know what are some North Stars that you need to look at?

00:29:11.651 --> 00:29:25.131
Well, it's that we have an opportunity for these girls when they're 15, but the only way to get there is to build the base of the pyramid when they're five, and that's such a that's a hard, that's a long journey that it's hard for people to see that vision all the way down the road.

00:29:25.681 --> 00:29:28.188
Yeah, we're on a year two here.

00:29:28.188 --> 00:29:29.451
We have a program with Bauer.

00:29:29.451 --> 00:29:35.384
It's called Bauer Empower with the Vegas Golden Knights.

00:29:35.384 --> 00:29:44.413
It's 30 girls that are new to hockey so they just the requirement to join the program is they have to have like a minimum skating proficiency and not all of them can really skate that good.

00:29:44.413 --> 00:29:46.038
So we have a.

00:29:46.038 --> 00:29:47.561
It's all female coaches as well.

00:29:47.561 --> 00:29:51.009
We have a couple learn to skate coaches that are out there.

00:29:51.009 --> 00:29:56.589
They're female coaches, they wear hockey skates and those kids like there's a few that really are not strong skaters.

00:29:56.589 --> 00:30:03.821
So we keep them kind of down below the goal line and for the hour they're in hockey equipment and they're around the 30 girls.

00:30:03.821 --> 00:30:09.222
They're in the locker room with that 30 girls but they're not quite ready for hockey yet, they're not ready for learn to play yet.

00:30:09.222 --> 00:30:13.351
But we get them in the equipment, we get them to meet the other girls.

00:30:13.351 --> 00:30:16.624
They see the drills and the fun that they're having and want to stay in it.

00:30:16.624 --> 00:30:20.090
So that is ages five to 12.

00:30:20.471 --> 00:30:26.571
So pretty broad range and as long as you can skate you can be in this Bower and Power program.

00:30:26.571 --> 00:30:29.244
And the fitting last year we had Megan Keller.

00:30:29.244 --> 00:30:32.031
This year we had Layla Edwards and Caroline Harvey.

00:30:32.031 --> 00:30:37.391
So their first touch point into hockey when they get all their equipment is from an Olympian.

00:30:37.391 --> 00:30:42.990
So you can see like, hey, you can be, you know, you can be Layla Edwards one day, you can be Caroline Harvey one day.

00:30:42.990 --> 00:30:47.595
And they get all the equipment on site, like their jersey, everything like that.

00:30:47.595 --> 00:30:55.005
So in that two weeks before they start the program they can go to stick and puck and sort of get comfortable at home with the equipment.

00:30:55.425 --> 00:30:58.760
But the biggest thing I think with the Bower and Power program is it's 30 girls.

00:30:58.760 --> 00:31:05.222
It's, you know, the social is that they have fun, they're in the locker room together and then at the.

00:31:05.222 --> 00:31:08.355
It's an eight week program and at the end they do an evaluation.

00:31:08.355 --> 00:31:15.467
So some of them are going to have to go back to learn to skate, but they know that there's, you know, in six months there's learn to play.

00:31:15.467 --> 00:31:16.433
For you there's little nights.

00:31:16.433 --> 00:31:18.886
For you there's house league and last year so we had 30 girls.

00:31:18.886 --> 00:31:24.208
When we look back at it there's 25 of them now, a year later, are in our house league.

00:31:24.208 --> 00:31:33.669
So between five to 12, we have added 25 girls to our house league program, which a few of them now are on our 10U and 12U junior nights that came out of that program.

00:31:33.689 --> 00:32:10.354
So people that want to take it to the next level, they've seen it and the parents have seen it and the parents have seen I think very important seeing female coaches in hockey skates, because when you start at learn to skate, a lot of the women that are on the ice are in figure skates and I think the parents just see women on the ice and figure skates and little girls and you pick that figure skating pathway, whereas with this program you see the same learn to skate coaches and hockey coaches that are women out there in hockey skates and it's like, oh OK, there is a whole pathway and hopefully we can get to the point where we have a whole girls ecosystem of girls learn to play girls little nights.

00:32:10.354 --> 00:32:13.469
You know we have our tenured junior nights.

00:32:13.469 --> 00:32:16.061
They play in the co-ed house league.

00:32:16.061 --> 00:32:19.391
So they'll play in the spring and fall house league as well as the travel.

00:32:19.391 --> 00:32:22.266
So they only practice twice a week with junior nights.

00:32:22.266 --> 00:32:29.788
Then they get one practice in the co-ed fall house league and on the weekends they play games like co-ed games.

00:32:30.250 --> 00:32:48.470
But what we try to do here is keep those girls that are on the 10u junior nights as a fall house league team together, so they'll play against boys in the house and then sometimes it mixes with boys if we don't have enough girls, but just a lot of opportunity for girls to play with other girls and I think that keeps them in and also helps their confidence right.

00:32:48.470 --> 00:32:58.863
Like if you're not out there with nine and 10 year old boys who may have a lot more skill than you, you're with girls and it and girls.

00:32:58.863 --> 00:33:06.286
I feel like if you're confident, then you're going to want to come out there and try harder and work harder and, and I think with girls, like it's a lot more important to build their confidence young than it is.

00:33:06.286 --> 00:33:15.971
I think maybe for boys and I think girls I think to like girls care more about having fun than winning, whereas I think boys need to win to have fun, if that makes sense.

00:33:16.712 --> 00:33:17.334
I think it does.

00:33:17.334 --> 00:33:20.048
It's funny, sherry, you're bringing up something here.

00:33:20.048 --> 00:33:21.807
I'm thinking about some perspective here.

00:33:21.807 --> 00:33:32.343
100 years ago, as a young boy, you might grow up thinking I want to play pro hockey for the Boston Bruins, montreal Canadiens 50 years ago.

00:33:32.343 --> 00:33:34.670
It becomes like, wow, that's a really cool thing to do.

00:33:34.670 --> 00:33:35.904
I could make a living doing that.

00:33:36.820 --> 00:33:43.750
If I'm not mistaken, 30 years ago girls might have been thinking I could play hockey and that's it.

00:33:43.750 --> 00:33:50.565
25 years ago, the first time a 7-8 year old could think I could be an Olympian one day.

00:33:50.565 --> 00:34:02.535
Then, 5 years ago, for perspective, five years ago, if you were seven or eight five years ago, that's the first time in hockey history as a young girl you might start thinking, oh, I could play pro.

00:34:02.535 --> 00:34:05.487
And then now is the first time.

00:34:05.487 --> 00:34:07.030
And look, my daughter is seven years old.

00:34:07.030 --> 00:34:23.992
Is the first time a seven year old girl can look up and say not only can I play pro, but I can play in front of 20,000 people and play college and have a future in this game.

00:34:23.992 --> 00:34:25.054
That's really only true over the last couple years.

00:34:25.054 --> 00:34:25.576
So I'm giving perspective.

00:34:25.576 --> 00:34:28.384
This has been true for boys for a century and for girls this is basically new.

00:34:28.384 --> 00:34:31.753
Especially this past year it's become this massive reality Again.

00:34:31.753 --> 00:34:41.980
To use my daughter as an example, she's going to be growing up in an environment in the world now where playing pro hockey, being an Olympic athlete, being a collegiate athlete, is a very realistic possibility.

00:34:41.980 --> 00:34:42.981
She can dream about that.

00:34:42.981 --> 00:34:47.733
That did not exist to that level just a few years ago, right?

00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:51.983
So I'm going to turn this into a question now, building on what you both have been saying.

00:34:51.983 --> 00:35:05.974
Right, we have a lot of directors, parents and coaches that listen to this show, whether morally, you feel like this is the right time to build it, or even, as Mike pointed out, from a business standpoint, this is a good time to build it.

00:35:05.974 --> 00:35:06.893
Right?

00:35:06.893 --> 00:35:11.077
So we're talking now about organizations that have existing teams.

00:35:11.077 --> 00:35:21.068
What advice can we give them on moving forward with adding girls teams to their organization?

00:35:21.068 --> 00:35:23.197
So I'm talking about established organizations out there that say look, I want to develop a girls program.

00:35:23.197 --> 00:35:23.619
The timing is right.

00:35:23.619 --> 00:35:28.211
This is something that really should be done now in the game, with how the game is growing.

00:35:28.211 --> 00:35:30.103
What is our advice to them?

00:35:30.103 --> 00:35:33.452
They go I want to create a girls program within this organization.

00:35:33.452 --> 00:35:35.447
And was my timeline correct?

00:35:36.382 --> 00:35:47.780
I think there's no better time to do it then now, because from a business perspective, if you're talking about the influx of just revenue base, it's the same right.

00:35:47.780 --> 00:35:50.222
If you can get more players, it's just.

00:35:50.222 --> 00:35:52.206
It's the amount of players on the ice.

00:35:52.206 --> 00:35:54.509
Players is not gender specific, sure.

00:35:54.509 --> 00:36:03.324
So if you can get a certain number of players and you do a projection of what that looks like to make your ice costs or to make it equal, it's the same.

00:36:03.324 --> 00:36:08.742
And the other piece of it too is I think there is a lot of media.

00:36:09.291 --> 00:36:13.943
The time to view hockey has never been easier from a female perspective.

00:36:13.943 --> 00:36:15.313
There's a lot of push to it.

00:36:15.313 --> 00:36:29.215
So now you're getting families excited about it In that case too, that they can turn on their TV and they can see a PWHL game go on, they can watch the rivalry series happen, and so why not start with this momentum?

00:36:29.215 --> 00:36:39.215
And I do think it's one of the things that, from a business perspective, it's just players on the ice is what equates with revenue base generation, or generating.

00:36:39.215 --> 00:36:48.898
So it doesn't matter what it looks like and you don't have to do this crazy thing If it's hey, half the ice is going to be for girls only and we're going to have female coaches awesome.

00:36:48.898 --> 00:36:51.278
The other half can be for co-ed awesome.

00:36:51.278 --> 00:36:54.115
You're still utilizing your ice, it's just different ways to look at it.

00:36:54.115 --> 00:36:59.798
And again, you're creating the psychological safe environment for those girls to succeed.

00:36:59.798 --> 00:37:05.759
And, as Sherry talked about the confidence piece, the having fun piece, you can create that in different spaces on your ice.

00:37:05.849 --> 00:37:07.757
I think some people say, well, they need the whole sheet.

00:37:07.757 --> 00:37:09.856
Ideally it'd be awesome.

00:37:09.856 --> 00:37:12.978
I mean I would love the whole sheet for myself to go shoot 100 pucks.

00:37:12.978 --> 00:37:17.413
But I think you can be creative when you're just starting out and as it builds.

00:37:17.413 --> 00:37:22.253
Now the whole sheet is realistic and you should do it that way.

00:37:22.974 --> 00:37:33.836
I think, caitlin, I think what you just said is brilliant, right, because this is something I talk to hockey coaches, directors and program administrators all the time is that is a huge sheet of ice.

00:37:33.836 --> 00:37:41.619
With six-year-olds Like you need to think about it as three different facilities or four different facilities, and how you manage those facilities.

00:37:41.619 --> 00:37:44.503
You know blue line in center ice.

00:37:44.503 --> 00:37:54.702
You know different quadrants, like in the, in the, in the, what we have today, right, with cross ice boards and bumpers and border patrol, we have all the ability to make it not only safe but segmented.

00:37:54.702 --> 00:37:59.380
So when a parent looks, when a new parent comes in, they know what full ice looks like.

00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:03.559
It's like I've said this a million times, like right now, why is Little League Baseball successful?

00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:09.481
Because they build the field smaller, but parents get all crazy because they don't build smaller rinks.

00:38:09.481 --> 00:38:11.838
It's the same rink that Seattle Kraken skates on.

00:38:11.838 --> 00:38:14.197
So why aren't we utilizing the rink?

00:38:14.197 --> 00:38:15.769
Well, we are utilizing the rink.

00:38:15.769 --> 00:38:18.097
We're just utilizing it in a more economical way.

00:38:18.097 --> 00:38:26.253
Utilizing the ring, we're just utilizing it in a more economical way, and I think both of you and Lee you brought that point up.

00:38:26.253 --> 00:38:32.719
I mean, I heard Sarah Filler the other day on the NHL network talking about getting drafted, number one overall in the PWHL, and she said when she was a little girl, she's like I dreamed of getting drafted into the NHL.

00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:35.652
And everybody's like, well, that's ridiculous, like you're never going to get drafted.

00:38:35.652 --> 00:38:39.739
But now there's actually girls that are saying I will dream about that.

00:38:39.739 --> 00:38:52.755
And I think, sherry, you've seen it most recently, right that when, when, when the Vegas golden Knights go in and they win a Stanley cup and they do, well, it, that's what grows, like that popularity grows and Seattle comes in.

00:38:53.016 --> 00:39:04.644
Take advantage of that, of that bump, and I think, right now, for all of us in the youth hockey world, taking advantage of the bump of women's hockey and the fact that it's front and center.

00:39:04.644 --> 00:39:17.257
If I'm a youth organization and I'm like I can't grow my sport I've been trying, I can't get Well, take that bump, use those celebrities, use those pros to help you, Because if you see it, you can be it.

00:39:17.257 --> 00:39:22.184
We've heard this for a million years in growing up as hockey directors and coaches and program administrators.

00:39:22.184 --> 00:39:31.114
Well then, do it by taking front and center, the women that you have in front of you and and leveraging that, you know, and using that to your advantage.

00:39:31.114 --> 00:39:33.425
And I think uh, you know, but that's a great point.

00:39:33.485 --> 00:39:43.043
Going back to that, just use your ice and think about it as quadrants of development and don't worry about the fact that you're not using quote, unquote all your rights.

00:39:43.043 --> 00:39:44.224
I listen, I've watched.

00:39:44.224 --> 00:39:47.452
I've watched a million practices where people haven't even gone over the blue line and they want full ice.

00:39:47.452 --> 00:39:48.577
I'm like you don't even go over the blue line.

00:39:48.577 --> 00:39:51.606
What are you doing, like, why do you need it?

00:39:51.606 --> 00:40:10.317
I mean, I just wish the ice could be, you know, white and say you get that part of the field, you get that part of the field, you get that part of the field, and I think that's great, though, to think about it that way and to put people in quadrants and think about how you can leverage that as a business perspective, a growth perspective, a safety perspective and a development perspective.

00:40:10.317 --> 00:40:12.222
It's a win-win-win all the way around.

00:40:12.989 --> 00:40:20.751
Yeah, and we did that with our learn-to-plays too is we had girls groups within the larger space until we were able to start a girls only learn to play.

00:40:20.751 --> 00:40:28.677
So when we were starting of saying, hey, we really want to do this, let's survey our parents that are signed up to it.

00:40:28.677 --> 00:40:31.789
Do they want to be in this girls only group, do they not?

00:40:31.789 --> 00:40:50.246
And what we found was that players Mike to your earlier point in the show is like in same with Sherry like players that didn't originally sign up for it saw this group of females around in this, the big, larger ecosystem, but they were just in the group of the adm stations, together moving, so it was safe for them.

00:40:50.246 --> 00:40:51.614
They felt like they could compete.

00:40:51.614 --> 00:40:55.592
We had parents email us and say, hey, my daughter really wants to join that group.

00:40:55.592 --> 00:40:56.373
Is that possible?

00:40:56.393 --> 00:41:03.797
I know we didn't fill out the survey the first time and we would just do it and the way we did it was, I thought, very subtle.

00:41:03.797 --> 00:41:11.690
But their name tags were just a slightly different color or they had an asterisk at the end of their name, so our our on ice lead would know.

00:41:11.690 --> 00:41:25.126
Oh, these five are supposed to be in this group and these five are supposed to be in this group and and this, these two can go in the larger group and it was a way for us to say, hey, is this doable one?

00:41:25.126 --> 00:41:27.152
We're utilizing the ice in the same capacity.

00:41:27.152 --> 00:41:39.818