Our Girls Play Hockey: Strong Looks Different on Everyone: A Conversation on Body Image

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of Our Girls Play Hockey. I'm Leah Lyas, joined by my good friend Haley Skimora, and today we're diving into one of the most requested topics. I'm not kidding about that. This is one that we see come up all the time, but it's one of those topics that's rarely discussed, and it affects almost every player and family at some point. So no matter where you're at on this, it's not even an issue, this topic, listen to this episode. This is one of those, I'm telling you, people want to know more about it, which is body image confidence and the evolving definition of strength in girls' hockey. We're gonna discuss strength training myths to nutrition misconceptions to the pressures of social media and how it affects everybody. And we're gonna break down how we can all help young players see themselves as strong, capable, and confident athletes, which is again far more important than I think anyone realizes, talks about. That's why it's important to have these conversations. And remember, Haley's lived this journey firsthand at every level, uh, as a player, as a coach, as a parent, uh, and as a dad of young kids myself, I know this is a topic that isn't discussed and discussed enough because I don't discuss it enough, but I know it matters and it matters deeply to families everywhere. So uh let's get into it today. Haley, I'm glad you're here. Uh, you know, first question I mentioned it, right? You played at every single level now. Like literally, you've played at every level a woman can play at, right? When did you first start noticing that female athletes face pressure around body image? And how did you personally navigate that while also focusing on your performance?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

I I remember even when I was in like middle school, I would say, I always felt that like my body type was different than like the average girl. Um, like, you know, I'll never forget like trying to try on jeans for the first time. I could not find jeans that fit me. And it was the most infuriating and like sad process. And honestly, through through college, even I still struggled with it at times in terms of the number on the scale and things like that, and how that equated to how I felt about myself. Um, so honestly, to this day, even I don't even weigh myself. Like I don't look at the number, it's all about how I feel um in terms of on the ice, in terms of off the ice. I base it solely off of that feeling. Um, and I don't worry about the number on the scale.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

No, I I love how specific that answer is because it it really isn't that complicated, right? At the end of how you approach it, you know, one thing I I do want to bring up, we talked about this a little bit in the in the pre-show, is you know, perception is so important with this topic, right? Whereas uh male, female, you know, you're all gonna perceive this a little differently. And the reason I kind of said what I said in the open about myself is that you know you talked about fitting jeans, right? Well, most people I know, most guys I know, we don't care, right? Like just give me the pants and I'll put them on. Yeah, and I think it's important that we we kind of acknowledge that, like, okay, well, that's that's just my perception. It's not how it is for everyone. I never growing up would have thought about what you just said about it, these pants don't fit me right. And I'm conscious about that. And you know, there there are certain um, and and again, this is always changing, but there are certain things about oh, well, what weight are you, and what does that mean? And what body shape are you? Like these are things that I don't I don't want to limit to just young women, I don't think it's fair, but these are things that to be you know, young women do deal with, and some young men as well, correct?

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Oh, for sure. And you see it in the media all the time. Um, I think especially with women, like uh their body types being put up there, like, oh, they should lose weight, or it just there's a myriad of uh social pressures I think that females are under that the male counterparts don't fully understand.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Um and those are hard to navigate, especially for younger kids, especially with social media nowadays. It's so much easier to do the comparison trap. And um, I remember there there was like a thigh gap uh thing that girls would always do, like, oh, look at there's space between my thighs. And I remembered like not having the space because I had thick thighs because I played hockey. Like and that was always something that I struggled with as well. And uh honestly, even same with my arms, I had very like defined arms, even as a kid, like a five-year-old kid, I had very muscle arms. Like people asked if my parents if I worked out, you know, but that used to be something I was self-conscious about as well because it was seen as a male trait. Um, and now I've learned to embrace it and embrace how strong I am and how it helps me in hockey, helps me in life. And um, and now I see it as beautiful, but there was a time where I didn't, and that was a hard thing to navigate without other role models to kind of look to.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

So I have to ask this again. I'm a little bit off the rundown here. I'm sorry about this. You you had said that that right the way you looked maybe didn't match what other people I I you don't need to be specific on this, but yeah, where who in terms of like people that pressure had to come from somewhere, right? Was it was it friends, was it family, was it teachers? Um, because I I you know it can come from a lot of different directions. I think sometimes people don't even realize they're doing it, but so let's a specific example of like we have manly arms, like yeah, like I don't even know. This is me, like like I know what you mean by that. That's not something I think about typically in myself, right? That pressure comes from somewhere. I I also think too. I'm gonna say this. I think sometimes people say things jokingly, yeah, really don't realize how painful it can be for someone. Um again, quick example of that that I know I I changed in myself was when I was growing up, it was very popular. A lot of the dads listening are gonna know I'm talking about, say, hey, don't be a girl, don't act like a girl. You're playing like a girl, right? And as I got older, I started realizing this is really wrong. Like I'm equating being a girl with weakness, right? And I'll be blunt and I don't care how anybody takes this. That could not be further from the truth, right? Typically quite the opposite, actually. Yeah, all right. So I'm just using that as an example because I know there's people who still say what I just said, and I can tell you until they've heard this, they never even thought about it. Is oh, okay, that's that's a point. So that pressure, right? Where can that come from?

SPEAKER_00 7:47

I think for me it came from kids at school. I think that was commonplace. I was also comparing myself to other people, so it wasn't necessarily things they said, but it was also just me looking and not really seeing other girls like me and um kind of equating that to that reason. Right. Um, I would say, you know, I trained a lot, like my dad trained me a lot, and we focused on like uh the number sometimes for the weight, and I think that affected me as well. And um, you know, I it wasn't anything he never said it in a negative way necessarily, but it was enough where we were trying to get it down to a certain number, but there was no reason to get it down to a certain number. This was probably more so in um high school going into college, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

And that was difficult for me to navigate because I equated the number with how good I would be on the ice when it wasn't related. And it all has to do with your fitness level and all like it doesn't how you look didn't equate to how you were on the ice. So it's but I equated them and it was it was difficult to navigate for a bit, and that's why to this day I still don't use the scale.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Look, believe it or not, as a as a former player, I can relate to that one because when when I I I played in the Neanderthal level uh era as people used to call it, but like 6'5, 220. That was the that was yeah, you gotta be 6'5-220. Um, and like just think about this from both both times. Like, I'm I'm 5'11, so six five is not gonna happen, uh, unfortunately. And then 220, uh, you know, I got 215 at my peak. Okay, but it's like there was so much focus on that, and as I got older and the game changed a bit, it wasn't about the weight or the height, it was about, like you said, I just want to feel strong, yep, whatever that means. And I want I want my strength to apply to what I can do on the ice, period. It didn't matter how big my biceps were, which we all know biceps barely do anything for you anyway, right? But it was okay, where's the strength coming from? I think that just in the terms of this conversation is so important for everyone listening. Of that is infinitely more important than whatever stats you've been told. Yeah, okay. Um, and listen, listen, good genetics are good genetics when it comes to sports. Yes, but you have no control over those genetics, right? I mean, if you if you're serious about playing, you're gonna have to live with what you got, no matter no matter what side of the the thing you're on in that. You know, one other thing I want to bring up, you know, someone who's really championing this right now is uh Alona Marr from USA Rugby.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I was gonna bring her up, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yeah, I I have loved her journey because she's breaking every mold about how you're supposed to look, and she's doing it in a way of I don't really care what you think. And again, for those of you who don't know her, obviously she plays for USA Rugby. So I'm gonna kind of say she looks like a football player, right? Yeah, like she she she's strong, she is a super strong woman and she's celebrating that uh and is breaking the mold. And I think that that's someone we should be celebrating too, uh, in terms of this conversation. Anyway, I'm sorry, if you wanted to bring her up, please talk about her.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

I didn't well I did, and I was also gonna bring up um Victoria Gareth Brown, she's another person I follow like a lot, um, because I just love the way she talks about body image and how she shows the pictures of like this is how you can alter how people alter themselves to look this way, and like this is what I actually look like relaxed, and her like side by sides with that I think are huge, especially in the age of social media, yeah. Um, where you can see how people can so easily alter how they look, whether that's Photoshop, whether that's how they're posing. Um, and so it's really refreshing to see someone be real about it. And then with Alona, like for me, I've related to her a lot just because she's super strong and like um, and I always felt like things she says, it just resonated, it clicked.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

And it's um just really refreshing to to see that and to be able to relate to someone who's in that light as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yeah, and I just I love how she, you know, she it started with her just celebrating rugby at the Olympics. Yeah, it turned into something so much bigger, um, which is great. It's a great example for those of you listening to this episode of of in addition to Haley, obviously, someone to check out and uh some of your friends that made fun of you. I mean, I guess you're getting the last laugh on that now because you're a podcast host and you know, a professional hockey player, Olympian. Right, right, of course. It it priorities, all right. Um, you know, it's funny. If you listen to our mailbag episode recently that we did, we talked a lot about how Haley is a very physical, strong player, and that's her style of hockey. Um, so did that definition of strength evolve as you grew from youth player to Olympian? We've kind of talked about how you perceive it maybe as an insult as a kid, but walk us through that kind of awakening of well, okay, wait a minute. This is an asset, right? And to today, where it is, is oh, I've got you lined up. That's a shame for you. You know what I mean? Again, you saying one more thing. You said yeah uh in our previous episode that you know, I get in the game by getting a hit, I get in the game by being physical. Like that's where you're at now. Yeah, so talk us through that evolution.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

I would say I maybe noticed it was a strength of mine, to be honest, probably when I started playing girls' hockey. Because before I was in boys' hockey and I had to be physical to survive. It wasn't necessarily like I was overpowering everyone out there. It was more like I could hold my own, I could dish it out, but it wasn't necessarily like uh super obvious, right? When I first went into girls, I was getting so many penalties for body checking because I was like so much stronger than all the other girls. And I think that's kind of when I realized that like this is a huge strength of mine, my strength. And then going through the college process, like seeing that teams liked that part of my game. Um, and then in college, it was also a huge asset for me and why I was so successful and each step since. And um, wherever I go, like that's the number one compliment I'm getting from teammates or from coaches is like, we love your strength. We love that you can outbattle like everyone you're up against. And so I think it just kind of gradually became something that I was like, uh became more and more like ingrained in me that like my strength was a beautiful part of me.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

So that's a great answer, you know. And I love the way you just said that too, Haley, because in your position, you've turned something that was essentially an insult into what makes you who you are as a hockey player. I mean, like without it, without it, you're not probably where you're at.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Um, and that's nothing, that's not a shot at your drive or anything like that. It's just that's an asset of who you are. I mean, that's yeah, that's that's really amazing when you think about it. You know, you're making me think of a quick story, you know. Um, many of you know I coach a women's national team, and I have one player I'm thinking of right now who is incredibly strong, and I I think I've mentioned this to you off the air about how she is unbelievable at creating time and space with her with her physicality. And I told her that, and she had never been told that. Now I'm not I'm not patting myself on the back. What I'm saying is I was a shocked because it was so obvious to me, right? Yeah, I was shocked that no one had told her that. And there was actually a a mild bit of apprehension I could see when she said, Well, what do you what does that mean? Like, what does that mean about me? And I'm like, none of this is a judgment on you. I'm telling you that this is an asset that you have.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

And it made me think for a minute of wow, none of her coaches have ever they there's no way they didn't notice it. There's no way, yeah. All right. I mean, if they're if they're serious coaches, there's no way. They just never said it. Um I don't know. I don't, it's not a question there or anything like that. I'm just I'm just reflecting as a coach right now on things that I see that I think about like we have to be able to tell players things because you you never know if they've never been told that, right? Um, I've I've said this even coaching pro. There's things I I think to myself, oh, they have to know that they're pros. And you tell them, but they've never they've never been told ever.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

To be honest with you, Lee, I don't know if anyone's ever explained my game the way you explained it. So I think it's also a testament to like how you phrased it, um, kind of like clicked. And I was like, oh, that's like a nice way of putting it. Because I've been told different variations of it, but in the way you said it, I was like, that's really nice. I like that a lot because it it's it shows the impact I have for my teammates. It's not just what I do, it's what I do for my teammates. Well, and that perspective was um was huge.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Well, Haley, that you paid me. I'm I'm blushing here now, okay? Because you're paying for the compliment, uh, making me believe I can coach in the PWHL too. No, but well, first off, look, I really appreciate that. And and I look, I'm a very team-oriented person. So um, and you've mentioned this before. I always look at it of how are you complimenting each other, right? Yeah, because a goal scorer can't score without a great passer, a passer can't score if they don't have time and space. And you don't get the time and space if you don't have a reason to create the time and space, right? Uh, and you know, on the other side side of it too, it's like goalies aren't great unless they've got defensemen, you know. Right. So uh I I really appreciate you said that, and maybe that's something we all need to do a little better is describing that thing. So I mean, um, or I could just call you a goon, just you know, call you what you are. Uh no, really, you threw me off there. Thank you for that compliment.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

I mean you're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Um, okay, we'll move on to the next question now before I start judging myself. There's uh there's still a myth out there, uh, and this this is an important one for uh I'm gonna say this too for everyone, but specifically uh the dads out there, okay? There's a myth that strength training will make girls too bulky. Okay. What's the truth about how female athletes can train you know safely and powerfully? And and is is there a I I don't know the answer, right? Is there a too bulky? What is that? What does that even perceive, you know, become when I say it?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, I think it's the most common one I get, especially with female athletes, they're like, I don't want to do more squats, I don't want to get bulky. And to be honest with you, it's just your body type. I know so many girls who they have like skinnier legs, skinnier arms, but they are so strong and they train all of the time. But their genetics, their body type is that, and so they will physically not get bigger than that unless you actually took steroids. To be honest with you, that's probably the only way you could actually get too bulky, is if you like took illegal drugs.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

It would be obvious too.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

And it would be obvious, exactly. Like that's just your it's what your body type is, and so no, you cannot get too bulky by working out, it'll be whatever your body is able to get to, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

No, it makes a lot of sense. And I I just again, I think if you're using the words too bulky, right? I think what you're doing now is you're you're diving into those social things that people say, right? Like I'll I'll talk about this probably again in the episode. But when I talk to my kids, and I'm not limiting this to just my daughter, yeah. Um, I talk about being healthy, right? Like, what is what does being healthy mean? And obviously that that's nutrition, but it's also like, yeah, you got to be physically active, you gotta work out, right? Um, also breaking another stigma. Or I I would hope most people know this, but going back to what we just said about maybe you don't tell people they don't know. Um, there's a difference between being bulky and being strong.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Um, being gigantic does not mean you are strong. All right, and and you've seen this. There's been plenty of gigantic guys, gigantic women with massive arms that cannot win an arm wrestling competition, yeah, because they have no stabilizers in their in their body, right? They look gigantic. Yeah. So so what's healthy mean? What's what does it mean to be strong? I think that's that's a great point that you you really uh brought up there, you know. Um here's another question for you. What would you say to a parent who's hesitant to let their daughter uh lift weights or do strength training based on the conversation we just had?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

One of the biggest um advantages to strength training is probably injury prevention, and especially with young kids, I think um maybe like ages you know, 11 or 12 up, I think is a good time to kind of start doing it. And you also don't have to do weights, you can do resistance bands, you can do bodyweight exercises. It doesn't have to be like giant barbells on top of kids' backs, like, or if they are doing that, it's in a safe space with a strength trainer who's right there teaching them proper movements, but it also teaches you the fundamentals of basic movements that you're gonna be using on the ice as well, and it just makes them more safe in those positions.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

That's a great answer. You know, I'm I'm gonna you're making me think of questions as we're doing this, which is good. That actually means that like this discussion's uh gonna be eye-opening, but I gotta I gotta phrase this one. So this is one that's formulating my head, all right. I'm gonna speak specifically to young girls here with this question, okay. Um I I I wonder sometimes if girls believe, right? Okay, well, there's a certain body image I have to portray to attract people to me, whoever it is, okay. And my retort to that is what you do to take care of your body will actually have an effect on who you attract to you with this thought in mind. Again, sorry, I'm kind of making this on the fly. You're good. That if you are a strong person mentally and physically, you will most likely attract a strong person mentally and physically in return. If you're not interested in that, and you're more interested in the social, this is how a woman is supposed to look, whatever that means, right? I we can go a hundred different directions with that statement. Right. You're going to attract someone who also believes that. It doesn't mean they're a bad person. Like, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that means they're sleazy or anything like that. But when I, at least for me, right, growing up, I can say this. If I saw a woman who was strong and took care of herself, took care of her mind, that that's that that told me something. And that that kind of is what I guess I was I was looking for. I don't know what else to say, right? Um I think my wife kind of fits into that, right? So my point is like it's about you having confidence in yourself to create what you want to come at you. Is that does that make sense what I just said?

SPEAKER_00 22:06

It makes perfect sense. And it's funny that you mentioned it because I actually that was kind of when you had asked me like who, like where it came from for me, a lot of it was I felt like I wasn't getting attention from boys when I was in like middle school, high school. Right. And I thought it was because of that. I'm sure I also didn't have that self-confidence and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Um, but that's what I thought, you know, was the reasoning. And I think some maybe had said it, some didn't say, you know, who knows? Uh, it's honestly stuff I don't really even think about anymore. It doesn't even cross my mind. Right. Uh, but it used to all the time, and that was like a factor that I had thought about for sure. And I'm sure there's other young girls listening to this who have felt similar.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Well, and I gotta say this too, like guys are exactly in a similar boat. Like I now when I said about the pants before I meant, but when it comes to like how we look super self-conscious that for the exact same reason. Um, and I think that brings up this point. I see now I know where I was going with this. Help me discover it. Is that at the end of the day, especially in those kind of middle school, high school years, specifically the middle school years, um, I think. Everyone's kind of afraid. Yeah. Okay. And I think that we don't talk about that. Right. And the and the truth is, especially if you're a young kid listening to this, boy or girl right now, um, I think that all of the apprehension is actually inwards. Like the thoughts that you're having, and and you you can comment on this too, Haley. Like the self-consciousness, that's the word I was trying to find, is all on your doing that to yourself. You know why? Because every kid's worried about themselves. I even if they're they're making fun of you and judging you, that's just a sign of insecurity that they're worried about it too, right? So I think with that statement, like a lot of this stuff is made up, right? In our own minds, right? Because I'll tell you right now that I really I remember again, we're talking a long time ago, but I remember worrying about what girls would think about me or what people would think about my friends. Like, do I look stupid? Do I look dumb? And the truth is, I don't think they really cared because they're too busy worrying about what they think other people are thinking about them. And like for the kids listening, you get a grip on this, it can change things because if you can stop caring about that, it the trajectory suddenly changes, right? Like, I don't ever want my daughter to think she has to look like pick the celebrity, right? Look like you, just look like you now. I'm a grown adult now saying that 16-year-old me would not have said that. Okay, I wouldn't have known what to say at that time. So I'm only bringing this stuff up here because it it's an incredibly complicated, chaotic space, right? And like we don't have these discussions, right? And that's that's why we're having it today. So sorry, I it wasn't a question in there.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

No, it's a it's a psychological phenomenon, right? Like where you think everyone's looking at you, and it's like in reality, everyone's so worried about themselves, they're not even looking at you. And when I learned that, I was like, that is lovely, that takes all the pressure off. So I'm not even gonna bother worrying about this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Yeah, there's a there's a really fun phrase that I love, which was you spend the first third of your life worrying about what other people think, you spend the second third year of your life uh not really caring what other people think, and then in the final third of your life, you realize nobody really cared to begin with, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

No, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

And so I joke, I'm trying to get to that that that mentality before the last third of my life, yeah. Right? Start living that now, yeah um, because it's it's it's it behooves you to do that, okay. Um, we kind of alluded to this question, which is good. You know, we talk about your online community. You you coach and mentor so many young players, right? Um, what are some signs that a player might be struggling with confidence or body image? It's a really great question because we're talking about what's going on in the head. Um but but how can a coach, a parent, a friend, I maybe identify, oh man, there's some self-consciousness going on here that that maybe I can have a discussion or or not a discussion, right? Sometimes it's not the right thing to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

That's true. It might be a hard thing to tread on, because like even just bringing it up could be a trigger in and of itself, right? Um, but maybe if they're just spending a lot of time on social media based on who they're following, maybe if they're liking a lot of um, you know, pictures of people with like uh what's the word I'm looking for? Like a Riz. I'm just gonna like a like a high version of like what the woman's supposed to look like, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:36

I know exactly what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Like something like altered in that sense. I mean, I'm sure it's hard to figure out. Yeah, like I'm sure um maybe like eating, if like you notice they're like maybe eating less or things like that. I think that could also be um a sign. But I'm also not a parent. Like it's not like this isn't something that I've necessarily like looked into or thought about in depth. Um, I mean, I think for myself, it was more so like the struggles with finding clothes that fit me. It was the struggles with people at school. Um But I was pretty open in talking about that with my parents. Like we had a very open dialogue, I would say. Like, um, especially like me and my mom, like we were extremely close and she was the person I was with in the dressing room sad about not fitting into jeans, right? So it's like she was aware of all the things I was kind of going through. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Well, I I I can tell you as a parent that what you just said is is wonderful to hear. All right, because that may not be the case for most people. I think the fact that the parents are open and willing to have a conversation with you about it and support you in that, that's everything. I'm saying that because I know I know parents who will do things like send their daughter a shirt that is a size too small on purpose, right? Um, or openly say, You look fat, which is like, what the hell are you doing? Right. It's all right, it's sad. Yeah. Now again, look, there you gotta say it, right? Uh there's a difference of when this happens to somebody who's in shape and someone who maybe is unhealthy and overweight, in which case you shouldn't say it the way I just said it. Right. But this comes back to health, right? Like I always say that if I because I do get asked this every once in a while about um, you know, I'll just say overweight athletes, right? Like they're just out of shape. And they go, What can I do when we get them to look better? And I said, Well, I wouldn't fo I would not phrase it that way. It's right get you healthy, how can we get you strong? Yeah, right, because that might not look like you think it looks. All right, go look at a linebacker. Those guys are pretty fit, all right. They don't look at like it, but they're very those guys can run faster than you and they're 350 pounds, yes, and they can run faster than you. And I'm not kidding when I've seen it. Yeah, terrifying. I don't know how anybody anyway. Bravo to your parents on that one, Haley, because I I think that that more people can do that, you know. Um, I got it. The follow-up to that also, it's we're talking about how do you help athletes when you can talk about it, reframe that mindset and focus uh on what their body can do rather than how it looks again. I just alluded to that a little bit, right? Because you know, how can I skate better? Well, you're gonna have to have big thighs if you want to skate fast. You know, it's like like one doesn't go without the other, right? Right. So I think that's important. You gotta re-reframe it in some way.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Yeah, it's like I'm grateful that my legs allow me to skate up and down the ice really fast. I'm grateful that my arms allow me to have a powerful shot. Little little things like that, I think, reframes it in a great way where um now you see it in a positive light and you're not seeing it as something that makes you different from other people, but or if it does make you different, it's in a positive way and not the negative way.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah, here's another one for you, right? I I mentioned the 6'5, 220, late 90s hockey player that everyone was modeling after. Well, yeah, having a low center of gravity now is an amazing asset, yes, right, which means that if you are short and stout and you have that strength, um, that's not a weakness at all anymore, right? That's that can be a massive asset. Yeah, um, and there's been several professional athletes, both men's and women's sports, that have that have proved that. So um, you mentioned this one before, Haley. We got to talk about it. Uh, you know, we're living in the social age, that's not changing anytime soon. Yeah, it plays a massive role in how girls view themselves today. Um, what advice can you give the players, the parents, about really setting boundaries uh or protecting confidence in that comparison heavy world? Again, we alluded to this, we didn't really talk about it, but there is so much junk and noise and uh brain rot, we'll call it too, right? Um all over the internet. I I can't even imagine having to navigate that as a young girl today.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Honestly, same because uh Facebook was enough for me at that age. I think we had Facebook and Snapchat. Um honestly, only follow people who bring joy, right? So that might be a hard thing to kind of patrol. But as a young athlete, if you're listening to this, like if you kind of notice that like you look at someone's post and you kind of start comparing it to yourself or you kind of get into like a that negative self-talk loop, maybe just think about, okay, I should unfollow or maybe like mute that person, right? You can do that because maybe you don't want to unfunnel, but you can mute it, make sure you don't see it as often. And then just be mindful of like kind of what thoughts are going through your head as you're scrolling and find people that um you think positively of. Like I said, for me, that was like Alona Mother seeing her stuff, like that brings me joy. It's funny to watch, it's uh something I relate to, um, and it's positive usually, right? Uh, so I think just focusing on that is huge for the social media age.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Yeah, I gotta say this. Um, I love how you just put that. Kids, adults, your social feed is not reality, and a lot of people think it is. All right, and I I can prove it to you. Go find a few friends that maybe you're not super duper close with, and just ask, can I scroll through your Instagram or your feed? And you're gonna see a vastly different reality than your own. And I I'll give you a great example just right now. If you don't, if you can't do that, if you were to scroll through my news feed, it's a pretty positive place. Now, I don't mean it's like la la la, the world's not, you know, it's always wonderful. I'm saying I see the news, I see things that are happening, but my feed's a pretty positive feed, like it's enjoyable, uh you know, a lot of motivational stuff, a lot of funny stuff, a lot of music that I like. Um, where I've looked at people who are close to me, their feed, and you would think that the entire world is ablaze. Okay, now neither feed is the truth. I I've gotta make sure I I'm sticking by what I said. My feed is not reality either, right? But that is how I've chosen my feed to be, because I don't think I could handle the world is on fire every single second of every day. It's not uh there's people that will be to disagree with me on that, but it's not the world, is the world, all right? It's existed for a very long time, right? Uh, the political climate in the world, I'm not gonna get into it, was different 30, 40, 50 years ago, but there were still problems, right? Right, you know what I'm trying to say. Yeah, um, I'm saying that too, because you could listen to this 30, 40, 50 years from now, it's still gonna be true. Yeah, all right. So audit your feed, heed what Haley said. If it makes you feel horrible, you have a choice to not look at that. And by the way, that might not just be news. That could be honestly, it could be the way someone looks, and you think I don't like this because I don't look that way. If it's not motivated, if it's not lifting you up, get rid of it. If it doesn't bring you some, some some value, get rid of it. It's your choice, it's not reality, no matter what you do, though. I gotta, I gotta say those two things. Sorry, Haley, I took some oxygen. There, any follow-up on that? No, you said it perfectly. Yeah, I mean, I just kids, you gotta do that. And parents, uh, I'm gonna say this again. We've had guests on uh under the age of 14. The recommended, this is statistically, I'm sorry, scientifically proven, and statistics have shown this. It's gonna shock a lot of you. The recommended amount of screen time per day under 14 is one hour. Wow, that's it. Your kids are logging six to 10. I I fight my kids on it too. I'm not I'm guilty, I'm just as guilty as all you. All right, but I'm aware of it and I work on it. Okay. Uh, it's it's definitely not easy. I'll say that too.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Okay, I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, it it's uh it's tough. You just gotta remember it's not a babysitter and you gotta do the best you can. Right. I'll also say every once in a while, I do deserve a chance to sit down. So it's it's a balance, okay? Um, we mentioned earlier too, we we talked a lot about strength and conditioning, uh, but nutrition is also another major area of confusion. You know, essentially, people, 70% of your body is based on what you eat. 70%, uh, even if you work out. So, what are some of the biggest myths you've seen about food or dieting uh or fueling to perform, right? I mean, there's you I'm sure you're on a pro-athlete diet. What are some of the things you've seen over the years?

SPEAKER_00 35:22

That's a great question. I'm not uh right now, what's coming to me is not necessarily myths, but like a very common thing on social media is like what I eat in a day. And it's usually like um young influencers who maybe don't need to eat as much as an athlete needs to eat.

SPEAKER_03 35:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

And people see that and then see what they look like and be like, that's what I need to eat in order to look like that. And as athletes, we need to eat a lot more than you realize. I think even I sometimes don't get as much as I need uh because it's a lot of food. You got to eat a lot. Uh, I usually drink a lot of protein, things like that to kind of help get to that level that I need. Um, but I would say to just be weary of who you watch in terms of the nutrition aspect. Uh, maybe watching more athletes and what you eat in a day, and even still do what you need to do for your body and don't feel like you have to do exactly what they do to look like them or to perform like them.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah, and do the research, right? Like, like watching is a great follow-up, right? Watching social media of what you eat in a day. Not a bad thing to watch, but do your research. You can't, like I said, it's not reality. Yes. All right, you gotta you gotta look that up. I mean, let me ask you this, Daly. Was there ever a piece of advice that you got, like a best piece of advice about uh nutrition that you follow?

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Honestly, the biggest thing was eating more protein than I was before. Right. Uh, I had found that I wasn't eating enough protein, uh, probably like back in college or something. So had more protein drinks and things like that. I think that's the a huge piece, especially for female athletes.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Yeah, you know, one that I I got, and it's it's one of those, like it's super simple, but it's just knowing, and and this is not the whole thing, like the whole picture, but you kind of have to have a grip on how many calories are you burning and how are you putting in? That that is that simple equation solves a lot of your problems, all right. I get again, if you're putting in more than you're burning, there are outcomes to that if you do it over a period of time. And you mentioned this, you made me think of this too, because it's an athlete. I don't know if you know what your calorie burn count is a day, but it's probably three or four times a normal, a normal just everyday person going to work, right? So you have to replace those calories. Um, in fact, what's funny about pro athletes is you're actually far more in danger of dropping weight than gaining weight if you're not careful. It for those of you don't know, maintaining playing weight sucks. I mean, it's it's not easy. Like, like I there's I we you and I have both heard it, right? Well, it must be so great. You get you can kind of eat whatever you want as much as you want. That is not the case. Uh, first off, cannot eat whatever I want, yeah. Uh uh, can eat what I'm kind of I have to eat. Um, and again, when it's like you know you need a certain amount of calories and you're not hungry, it's not a fun, that's not fun, right? It's not you kind of have to walk around while you're eating, yes, you know. So um, anyway, that's the reality of being a pro. It's far better than some other aspects, some other uh ideas, but uh, but I wanted to say that.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Totally. Um, well, Lee, for you as a dad and a coach, what have you learned about how you know adults can talk to the younger players about confidence or body image uh in a way that's like positive and maybe not as awkward as it could be?

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I'll say that a lot of times going back to what I said earlier, I focus on what does healthy mean? Right. And I usually I use that word health a lot, right? Because um, especially with my kids, it's like I want you to be healthy. I never say healthy means you look like this. Healthy means you're healthy, which means you're eating right, you're growing right, especially at that age. Like one of the one of the lines I do talk to my kids about is like if you want to grow, you got to eat healthy. All right, and that's super true. I always use the fish in the tank, right? If you don't, if you don't feed and malnutrition your fish, they're not gonna grow. But if you put them in the tank and you feed them right, they're gonna grow, grow, grow. All right. Uh, you know, not that the human anatomy is the same as that of a fish, uh, but the idea is there. So, you know, I talk about health a lot. The other thing too is that um I provide a lot of information. Um, now I I'm blessed that because I've worked in the game for so long, I have a lot of that information where I have the resources. Uh, but I try and lead by example. Like, like I want my kids to know I'm going to the gym, I'm working out, I'm on the bike, I'm eating healthy. I'm very um matter-of-fact, not in a praise me, I'm eating healthy, just oh, I'm working out right now, right? I want them to see that because I think they mimic the behavior that they see. Um, that's really, really important, right? Like, I I gotta say, like, if if you're eating unhealthy in front of your kid and then telling them to eat healthy, I it's just not gonna work. I don't, I don't, it's it's not the right message. Um, so I think that's part of it too. And then and then too, leading by examples. Look, look, my my son's about to be 12, my daughter's nine. Um, next year, you know, I plan to kind of start doing some more physical uh office, not weightlifting so much, but but things to help them get stronger so they can get that habit. Like, if I want them to build the habit, I have to help them build the habit, right? Like, we when they're younger, Haley, you when you become a parent, you'll understand this. There'll be a lot of talk about the routine when they're five, six, seven years old, right? They have to have a routine every day. Well, this is part of the routine, is we're going to be physically active in some form. Um, and again, my kids are very active as they're hockey players, obviously. Right. But like, let's get stronger, let's do some puck handling off fights, let's do something to stay active. Um, and it can be as simple as I do this one all the time. Simple as a walk. I'll say to them, like, let's go up and go for a walk. Oh, I'm watching this. Yeah, you've been watching that for an hour. Let's get up, we're gonna go for a walk. Um, things like that, I think, are super, super duper important as a parent. Um, and then, you know, as a coach, again, uh, I try and stay in shape. I, you know, I this is gonna sound I I don't know if this sounds judgy or not. I don't know what this sounds like, but it's like I want my coach to look like they're an athlete as a player.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

So so it was easy to be motivated to stay in shape when I was playing, playing. But one of the many motivations now, aside from being healthy, is that when I'm coaching kids, I want them to see I'm in shape. I I work out, right? Like, like uh I'm healthy because it's important. I think those are all ways to send that message in a positive way. I'm basically saying lead by example, but I said it for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Right. No, I think that's a great point. I mean, you see it with um, you know, people will post about young kids and they want to just be like their parents, so they're doing little workouts with them. I see it with my nephews all the time, uh, because my sister-in-law works out a lot, and then you'll see them lifting up the dumbbells and doing stuff. And so it is, it's super important.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

You know, I'll say this to you too, is with with my higher level athletes, um, you know, I create a lot of uh physical fitness plans or mobility plans. They're kind of standards of of this is what I expect. But another thing I do is I I explain kind of the why behind certain things of yeah, like we're doing mobility for this outcome. Uh, we're doing strength training or endurance training for this outcome. Great example, you know, in the team I coach is a lot of tournament-based uh events. So we train, we always say we train for day five, which is usually the gold medal game, or train for the gold medal, right? There's an outcome to this endurance training. So I'm not just saying go kill yourself on the bike six days in a row because you have to. It's I want you to go kill yourself on the bike because the outcome is you're training harder than the other team, right? And you will find that outcome. And you know this, like in the last tournament we coached, that's exactly what happened, right? We had legs at the end and the other team did not, and we trained for that specific event. So I think that's just I'd be remiss if I didn't say that uh in terms of a positive way of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Totally. Um, and then for male coaches and hockey dads out there that want to be supportive, they're maybe not sure how to talk about those topics with young girls in specific. Yeah, so how do you encourage like what would you say to encourage them to do that while still being respectful?

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Yeah, well, well, I'll say this again. My daughter's uh nine, so I I I only know the answer up to that point, right? Fair enough. Yeah, like like we haven't hit the teenage years yet. Uh like I'll navigate that when I get to it. But I think the the big thing I can say about now is I don't really treat her any differently than my son, and I don't treat my son any differently than her. Being healthy is being healthy, right? Um, and look, I I I will fully it, you know, say like obviously the female anatomy and experience is a different thing, and there's gonna things things that she experiences and he experiences that are obviously very different. Um, this is where it it helps that my wife's a physician, but but I'll say that that up until this point, it's no, like this is what we do as a family, right? It it's I think that's that's how you do it, is there's not separate rules for her and separate rules for him in terms of health and fitness. All right, when it comes to your body and what your body does, that that's a separate to me, it's a separate thing, right? So you can tell me if I'm wrong on that, Haley. Just it's a separate thing, right? Like when that when those aspects start happening, we'll have those discussions.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Yeah, I think that's a great point.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Yeah, well, and again, like there's no need to disrespect them. Like you mentioned about being respectful. It's like I think the ultimate respect that can show my kids is is just treating them, meeting them wherever they're at and treating them like my kids plural, right? And like, you know, here's the other thing too. In your previous question, you talked about you know, making it positive, not awkward. Um, you know, just as I'm thinking about it, sometimes it is awkward. I maybe that's okay. Like it's okay to be, it's gonna be awkward sometimes, right? Um, like there's aspects of growing up that are awkward, so the conversations are gonna be awkward. I think the bigger for especially for the topic of this episode, I think the bigger mistake is not having the conversation because it's awkward. Right? You know, and I think there's there's there's a lot of that going on too, of like it's awkward, so they just don't have the conversation. Like it's gonna be awkward at times, period. You know?

SPEAKER_03 45:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

So um this has been a really great episode so far, Haley. We're almost done. Let me let's close on this, right? Um There's definitely a young girling girl listening right now, right? It's struggling with this. You know, we've gone over a lot of things today, but what is kind of the unifying message here that you want her to hear directly from you about their body, their confidence, their strength, and where they're heading.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

My biggest message would be I've been there too. You're not alone in it. And to just remember that your body can do amazing things and to be grateful for every part of that, no matter what it looks like. And um, yeah, that you're beautiful no matter no matter what, and don't compare yourself.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

I love that. I think that's a beautiful note to end on, right? Because that is the truth, right? Every one of us, every single one of us, unless you have an identical twin, is genetically different. And even if you have an identical twin, you guys are different, yeah. Right? So beautiful message. Hey, this has been a great episode, and like you said, we talk about being awkward. There's a lot of some awkward things in this episode, but this is why we have to talk about it. I'm gonna end it the way I started it by reminding everybody, this is one of the most requested topics. It's just not publicly requested in the sense of people talking about it. And I'm glad we had some time to talk about it today. Um, and I I do want to open it up to the audience too. Like we're just two people talking about this, right? Everyone's experience is different. Please email us if you have thoughts, more questions. You agree, you disagree, more advice that we can share about this topic. Email us at team at our kidsplayhockey.com. Um, or as always, accompanying this episode in the show notes. Uh, there's a link. Just tap on it and you can text us directly. Just make sure I was saying make sure you leave your name and and where you're from uh so we know who you are, um, so we can respond properly, right? We can only respond through the episodes on those. But uh Haley, great, great stuff today. Uh, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Yeah, absolutely. It's a uh topic I'm very passionate about, and like I said, it was something I struggled with as well. And I've kind of finally come to a spot and I'm 31 years old. So uh it's okay no matter what your journey looks like.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

I appreciate that. All right, that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Girls Play Hockey. Haley will return in future episodes of Our Girls Play Hockey as we continue to do this. Uh, but with that said, I'm Leah Lyas. We'll see you on the next episode, everybody. Have fun, work hard, get better, and we'll see you next time. Take care. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, ourkidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at WhenHockeystops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.