Our Kids Play Goalie - The Goalie Doctors

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Hey everybody, welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Goalie. We have the goalie doctors on today. That should tell you a lot about what this one's about. It's a little bit of a longer episode, so you might want to take it in chunks, but uh Matt Tendler and Mitch Harris join us today, who are really well-established goalie coaches uh in the uh Southeast Pennsylvania and surrounding states uh area. So you're gonna take a lot away from this one, whether you're a goalie mom, dad, or player mom or dad or a coach, uh lots here to deal with. So also make sure to check out our website, ourkidsplayhockey.com. You can find our uh our deals there page for uh little gifts you can give your coaches or or knickknacks for the hockey season. And also make sure to follow our Facebook page, Our Kids Play Hockey. It's a private group. Yes or no questions to get in, and we go over a lot of stuff. But again, longer episode today, so I'm gonna let you jump right in. Here we go with our kids play goalie. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of Our Kids Play Goalie. I'm Leah Elias, and I'm joined as always by Christy Cassiano Burns and Mike Benelli. And today we have two guests who have combined their experience and powers, which is vast, to create a goaltending school that has impacted players in pro, NCAA, junior, prep, tier one, tier two, girls' hockey, and beyond. Joining us today are the goalie doctors, Matt Tendler and Mitch Harris. And both men have extremely impressive goaltending resumes, which between them include professional and collegiate experience in net and as coaches, in addition to an extremely large roster of students from around the world. The two are the brain trust behind the incredible, successful, and impactful school for net minders, aptly called the goalie doctor. So whether you play between the pipes, between the goal lines, or stand on the bench, that's everyone listening, you will take away a lot of value from this episode. Matt, Mitch, welcome to our kids play goalie. Good morning.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

Good morning, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

I appreciate you having us. Oh, we appreciate you being here. And and as is uh uh the normal status on this show, we always have to ask every goaltender has a story about how they were placed between the pipes. Were you voluntold? Did you naturally flop to it? Are you a younger brother? How did both of you get in the net?

SPEAKER_04 3:28

Mitch, if I'm the younger one, so I guess I'll start if that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Better look beauty, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 3:33

Starts right at the top, boys. I love it. So I I I uh I grew up in a hockey family. Uh, for anybody that is older than me in the Philadelphia area, you may have had experience at Tendlers hockey uh growing up. My dad was very much involved in in hockey coaching uh and everything. So I grew up watching him. Uh he forced me to start out as a skater. So I played forward and D. Um, but I would always go to my grandmother's house and say, Grandmom, can you please buy me goalie pads? I want to play. My dad said, Nope, nope, nope, not until you're 13. Um, and then my I think it was nine years old, Christmas came around, and my first set of goalie pads were there. Uh, and I started playing goalie from there. And uh it was still a house rule that every other game or every other practice, I would have to play goalie and forward. So I did that until roughly around 13, 14, and then someone forced me to play goalie because I was better. Um, so that's pretty much the long and short. It was I watched my dad grow up. I wanted to play be him, and uh, he was always doing goalie camps and stuff, and I was the the shooter. So it was kind of uh immersed in the goalie world and it was it was in my DNA. So there was there was no denying it, even though my dad told me numerous months of times you're not playing goalie, you're gonna be middle size, medium sized, play forward, you're gonna be better at it. Um, but uh I I couldn't I couldn't stay away from the net.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

It makes me wonder if there was ever a parent that says you're gonna be a goalie.

unknown 4:59

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

The more that we do, and Mitch can attest to this, there's a lot of parents that uh really want their kids to be goalies. Really, and it could be a double-edged sword, right? You could have a goalie that uh a student or a kid that really wants to be goalie and mom and dad don't because of the commitment, the responsibility, the dollar amount. Uh, and then the other side, you have a goaltender that really doesn't want to play goalie, and we've seen those, and mom and dad are forcing to be a net. So um I really think it comes down to each and everybody's situation. But uh my my story is a little bit different than Mitch's. I'll I'll pass it off to Mitch.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Mitch started a little bit later than before we get to Mitch's story, why did your dad say not until you're 13?

SPEAKER_04 5:38

So, okay, so that's that's a really good point. So um I was very fortunate enough when I was younger, uh, and my dad really he knew everybody in hockey. Um, and one of the the greatest names that he knew was Vladislav Tret. So he was a Russian goalie from the 80 Olympics. Um, and he came over in the early 90s and started doing goalie camps and clinics, and somehow, some way, my father linked up with that school. Um, and it was really uh Tretchak telling my dad, don't start until he's 13. Until he's a teenager, you know, he's got to learn how to be a good skater, he's got to understand the game, he's got to become a better athlete. You know, until they're you know teenagers, you really have no idea what they're going to become anyway. So why rush it? Save the body, save the knees, save the money. And uh he was he was very adamant about that. But I was pretty pretty steadfast about starting as soon as I can. I played roller hockey goalie for the neighborhood. You know, everybody was, you know, I was really good at getting in the way of things, and it just kind of naturally progressed into goaltending. Right. Um, so no matter what he told me, I wasn't listening, I was doing it as soon as I could.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

We we should note too that the pads in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s in the Soviet Union were slightly heavier than what we use today, but no just a little bit, just a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

That's interesting. That was really interesting. Thanks for sharing that. Okay, bitch, you're up.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Yeah, so my story is very, very, very different. Um, I did actually did not start playing goalie till I was 38 years old. Wow. Uh um, which was just yesterday. No. Um uh hockey for me, it was just I was it wasn't a thing when I grew up in South Jersey, but hockey really wasn't big back then. Um, so it was always something I wanted to do, never had the opportunity to do it. Um, I have a son who is now 17 years old, aging myself there, but uh, we wanted him to be a hockey. I was always a hockey fan and I was always a goalie guy. I love goalies playing. I played street hockey goalie, soccer goalie, everything. So at the time that my son was about four or five, I basically said to my wife, I said, I want to play and I want to be a goalie. And she looked at me like, what are you talking about? And I said, I someone's gotta be on the ice with the kid. It's gonna be me, and I want to do this, and I'm committed to doing it. So I went out, I got skating lessons, I actually got goalie lessons from Coach Tendler's one of the guys who helped me get started. There are definitely some videos out there on our YouTube page of father-son lessons with me and my son. Um, so that's how I basically got started. Um, didn't know anyone that played, so I started going out to a rink called winter sport that's no longer there at six o'clock in the morning to open skate because I had no goalies. So I just kind of showed up and uh progressively got a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit better. And fast forward a little bit past that, I just found a thing that I wanted to coach. And I had this idea down in my basement. I have synthetic ice, and I had this idea that I ran by Matt and said, Listen, I want to start this program. I want, I think at the time we call it kindergarten goaltending or something like that. And it evolved into the goalie doctor mentor program. And I wanted to get my son involved with coaching, wanted me to start coaching, and my coaching route start in a facility that is in my house that is 12 feet wide, 40 feet long. And fast forward to today, I'm coaching a women's professional team, prep school team, college team. We just got another uh tier one program, and I'm on the ice four to five times a week. Uh coaching goalies.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

I want to note this because um I do a lot of research, obviously, before the shows, even though I kind of know you two. And there was so much stuff on your bio, I could not literally could not fit it into the intro. And and and Mitch, I wanted to say this two things about about you. One is that I love that you just said without without any apprehension, hey, I started at 38, because there's a message there, right, to all the coaches and parents listening, right? If you have a passion for something, you're gonna make it work. And this man coaches professionally. I mean, it's it's insane. By the way, I should say this go to goaliedoctor.com, right? It's it's goalie dr.com. Correct. All right, and you can see all of the uh the resumes here. If you are in the southeast corner of PA and surrounding areas and you have a goaltender or a coach, you know who these guys are, right? It's it's when Logan, and I wanted to tell this story real quick for you and Mike and Christy, because Mike and Christie have been following me on the journey of the denial that my kid's a goalie and all the way that he is a goalie. Um, but one of the things was as soon as he put the pads on, six or seven parents came up to me and mentioned you guys, right? Immediately and by name, not just goalie doctor, right? Like this guy, Mitch, yeah, man, yeah, talk to these guys. And I'm thinking, wow, I've never seen in all the years I've been playing hockey, coaching hockey, I've never seen this many people come up to me and say this. But what I was so impressed with, his first lesson, Mitch, was with you. Um, Matt, you weren't there that night. But this is what happened. So Logan was a little younger at the time, and he was pretty green to playing goal. He had had some experience, and he comes out there, he's by far the youngest kid out there. He and he, by the way, I should mention this to the better. He told me he wanted to do this. I didn't push him out there. He came to me and said he wanted to do this. And I'm going, okay, he's the youngest, some pretty talented goalies out there already. Mitch, you did such a great job of balancing a variety of talent to A, making him feel welcome. B, I love you didn't let him, you didn't let him sneak by with anything. He was doing the drills you were doing. You know what I mean? Like it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

Absolutely. No, I mean, regardless, I mean, we go the one thing we demand, and and I post this and Matt and I talk about this 100% effort, 100% attention, everything we do. Right, right. And worst thing, try. Worst thing you're gonna do is fall. If you fall, you get back up, you do it again. I don't care if you're eight years old or or eighty years old, get out there and try it. And worst thing that's gonna happen is you you get up and you try it again. And you know, the one thing that I love about our family of goalies is that we support each other, right? And if one goalie's struggling, you'll see goalies tapping their sticks and right really helping out. And in between reps, we'll see goalies going over to other younger goalies and helping out. And that's the one thing that's for me, starting off our mentor program. We want our older, more experienced goalies helping out these younger goalies.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Well, and that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what I and again, you got to put yourself in my position as dad. I really do keep my mouth shut almost 99% of the time. But I'm watching these big kids and they're tapping them on the on the back, saying, Hey, wait, welcome. And then, you know, Mitch, the other thing I was impressed with is you did drills that were were probably a little uh, I shouldn't say it like that. You were showing my son some basics while not sacrificing the advanced goalie's development too. I was really impressed with just how it was run because he learned a lot and and everyone was involved. And look, I wanted to push on this thought a little bit too, because I had this this is a question. Uh, I said it, I've been told by several parents in the area whose kids you coach that your training goes beyond the ice. All right. And we talked about this a little bit in the pre-show. Um, but uh what kind of person they're gonna become? You guys said it to me. You can they can call you at any time. I've had multiple parents tell me that their kids talk to you about life and that they know that they don't even need to go to their kids because you guys have it covered. So this training goes well beyond just goaltending skill development. How do you incorporate personal development into your skill development package?

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Matt, why don't you kick off with that one? Yeah, I'll I'll jump on this one.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

Well, first off, let me just quickly revert back to one additional point. I just want to I want to commend Mitch just with his passion. So, you know, we touched on he started late, you know, he didn't have as much experience as everybody else. And I've had parents and other go away people come up to me and say, Matt, I want to help. And um, most of the time I tell him, No, no, thank you, I'm okay. Mitch was so dedicated, so committed, so driven that I just couldn't say no. And I really am grateful that he was so forceful at the start of it because it really helped us grow to where we are today. And you know, that kind of ties back into some of our mission. Uh, it really ties back into I want I want to help our goalies become the best goalies that they can be. Obviously, at the end of the day, that's ultimately why they do come to us. But I also want to expose them to life. Life is challenging, life is difficult. Um, and to bring in someone such as Mish that has a pretty successful uh career outside of hockey, to have a different path, a different trajectory, but also have the passion gives us a nice little yin and yang. Um, for me, everything I own, everything I have, everything I've ever earned is somehow, somehow tied back to hockey in every every aspect of my life, where I went to school, where I got my job, what my fiance, my friends, you know, everything. Um, so I was very fortunate enough to be to to be exposed to very high-level coaches and high-level athletes at a young age. And I really do attest a lot of my success back to those experiences. So when I was younger, it was, you know, very minimal hockey, in my opinion. I think I'm much me and Mitch are a lot more of uh tacticians than what some of the goalies coaches were back when I was growing up. But they taught me what hard work, what dedication, what commitment means. Uh, and honestly, my path was not very easy. Uh, you know, I thought I had a pretty good career. I climbed the ladder, I had a few cups of coffee and a few pro leagues. I uh played NCAA. But you know, five eight, being five eight as a goaltender, I was always up against you know, an uphill battle every single day, every single practice, every single tryout. And uh I really attest my success back to the you know, some of the mental aspects of of life. Like if if life is hard and you get knocked down, you got to get back up. If if you need help, ask for help. Um, if if something's not going your way, don't look externally, look internally. What can I do differently? How can I be better? And you know, that helped me tremendously as a goaltender. But now I'm I'm 36 years old, I'm 10 plus years removed from playing professionally, and the characteristics and the and the lessons that I learned through hockey really, really do transfer over into the work life and and your your relationships. And because I'm I'm still somewhat young, I still remember all those the messaging and and and the the lessons that I learned as a player. So we're trying to bring that back into life for the the individuals. You know, yes, we can teach a monkey how to do a T push, a butterfly, uh any type of technical movement, but the the larger question is how do you use it and when do you use it? And if you learn how to be a problem solver, not just a victim, but you you you find ways to find solutions, you know, if you can do it in hockey, hockey's a very small world. You can do it here, you can use those same skills outside of hockey. And um, I really think that the hard work, the focus, the dedication, the accountability that we we try and hold on the ice do transfer over into the classroom. You know, I've I've had I've been fortunate enough to be doing this. Uh, I started with my dad when I was 14, 15. So I've been doing it for 20 plus years now as a legitimate coach. And through that time frame, I've seen players ask for help get in prep school. I've had players asking help, can you sit down and help me do you know the college evaluation process, which you know, I'm very fortunate. I went through that that college process. I played NCAA, I coached at the NCAA. You know, I've been in many, many uh rooms sitting across the desk with many players having the same conversation. So it allows us to kind of give them a little bit of context. Uh and I think the best part about our job is really yes, we deal with a lot of teams and organizations and and and goalies, but we really don't have any allegiance to anybody. We're we're unbiased, we're independent. People can come to us and talk to us freely and openly, and we can give them, you know, easy, precise opinions on what we think. And ultimately, at the end of the day, Mitch, you you might laugh at this. We give a lot of opinions and a lot of good direction, but that doesn't mean that everybody listens to it. But at the end of the day, whether they listen to us or not, they come back and say and they say thank you. We appreciate your your your pointed uh advice and and we we value your opinion. And um most of the time, the kids, you know, now I'm Mitch, you're a little older, and we've been doing this now for many years. Uh, I have kids that have gone, played juniors, played college, graduated, have kids, have families, and everything else. And I still talk to those guys, and they're some of my better friends because you know, we've all been through the trenches together. And and when you're speaking from a point of experience to someone that is going through that experience, uh, it really does help. And luckily enough, we we we've been able to really build a lot of trust and and confidence from us down to our goalies to our parents that that allow us to have that level of conversation. So um I that was very long-winded. Mitch, I'll I'll give you I'll give you the mic here.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Yeah, great. Um, so I mean, I think the one thing, and Matt touched on the yin and the yang. I mean, Matt brings that experience as a player. I'm now in a position where I bring that experience as a goalie parent. So I feel that it's not my job to help parents navigate, like I said, whether it be equipment, whether it be teams, whether it be a coach isn't treating my kid fairly or he's not getting the ice time he should be getting. Um, you know, I had no problem having those conversations. And, you know, going back to the grassroots of the mentor program, you know, we aside from the studio was as a leather couch where parents I actually set up a camera so parents could watch because there's no place to watch the lesson from. So I set up a camera where they would actually watch it on a big screen TV. And I would be remiss if I did not mention my wife, my wife Kate, who would come in as basically the the goalie mom, who would literally during the lesson would be talking with the parents about being a goalie mom and how important it is to kind of let the goalies be themselves and not be right on the glass and having the goalies look at you when they give up a goal or when they make a save and letting them be independent. So we really brought this, and I hate using this word, but this kind of holistic granola kind of approach to goaltending. But it worked for us. And to this day, when my wife comes to the rink, she's out there talking to the parents while we're on the ice. So it kind of distracts them from not watching their kids and hovering over them and cheering every save and looking up in the sky every time they give up a goal. So it's just for us, it's I go back to it's not just the hour on the ice, it's treating these people uh these kids and parents as people and part of the goalie doctor family. And that's what we are. We really one of my big taglines lately is the goalie doctor difference. And I think our one of our biggest differences is we are a family, and it's just we're just grateful for all the families that come to us.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the parents because that's a really good point. And we've seen it every year in hockey. There's always the goalie parents who are obsessed, you know. Um back in the day they'd have clipboards, now they do the tailing on their phones marking where the shot went in, uh, what did they miss, where what's their what's their weak spot? Um what's wrong with that obsession? And what's a better way to be?

SPEAKER_03 20:39

So I'll take this one to start, Matt, and then you can kind of go. So there's a lot of different ways, and I will freely admit, and Matt will attest to this coach Mitch and dad Mitch are not the same person. So the advice that that that I give out is not necessarily the advice that I will listen to. And there are many times where after a game or even in during a game, I will text Matt or other people and be like, Oh my, I can't believe Rye did this. I can't, I'm like, what? And they're basically like, just shut up and watch the game. Um, so it it it's very it's a very, very challenging position. Um, I can tell you that that my wife, the way she handles it, is she takes pictures and she actually listens to games uh with headphones on and listens to music. Um that was originally a tactic so she didn't have to hear other people talking, but I think he ended up winning a game, so that became a thing. Um, and she listens to the same soundtrack um to every game. And then if he starts not playing so well, he'll change she'll change it. Um but she will take it on a weekend literally like 1,500 pictures. Um, because and she watches the game through the lens of a camera. Um, I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with tracking the shots and tracking where they are, but the question is, what do you do with it? Um, are you getting in the car after a game and basically showing this clipboard? Johnny, you gave up a goal from here and didn't it's like no, no, once you're once you're in the car, that's your safe should be your child's safe haven to complain to whatever, and you should not be coaching your kid after a game. Like, remember, you are dad. If you want to share that information with the goalie coach, that's phenomenal. But the last thing that you want to do is overload your kid, especially if they're younger, with with a chart of, oh, here's your shots. Because I have seen goalies get off the ice and say, Dad, what was my save percentage that game? And it's like that shouldn't matter. Did you give 100% effort? Did you give 100% attention? Did you compete on every puck? If the answer is yes to those three questions, then you play, then you did fine. Um, whether you won or lost, it especially at the younger ages, it does not matter. Just go out and battle and compete. And like I said, parents, the best thing they can do is not code from the car after the game.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Excellent advice.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

And if I could just touch in a little bit here, you know, I I I think parents sometimes forget that their kids are kids. Um, and sometimes, you know, I think and this isn't just hockey or goaltending, this is across all youth sports. You know, I really feel like sometimes adults ruin youth sports because they treat them like adults or they treat them like like the NHL flyers, um, and they're yelling, shoot on the power club. Or they're trying to coach from across the the uh the rink and everything else along those lines. And I I was very fortunate as a young goaltender that my dad played at a high level. He coached. Um, and I I'm not saying he's perfect and he knows everything, but it worked for me. And everybody's a little bit different, right? Everybody manages stress differently, takes in information differently, and they have a different relationship with their parents. So I'm not going to try and give you a blanket answer for everything, but ultimately it should come back to each and every individual, each goaltender has a different way that they process information. And mom and dad has to learn that. Um, so for me, you know, I was a very energetic kid. I played as fast as I could, as quick as I could, as hard as I could. And by the time I was in the vehicle, in the car, on the ride home, when I was, you know, 13 or less, I forgot about the game. Like it was already over. So, you know, it came back to for the time I got undressed, the time I hit the vehicle, that was the time to kind of reflect. And if I had questions, I would ask my dad on that time when he was walking me out. And if we got in the vehicle and I didn't have any questions, the music went on, it was I was back to a kid. Uh, and I think that's so important. We need to be able to turn the page at times. I mean, if you just if you take hockey out of the equation, you think about school, and little Johnny goes into a math test, and you know what? He didn't study for that test and he doesn't do as well. And he comes home, he brings up, you know, a C or a D test home to mom and dad. How are you going to react? He just got five straight A's, but he just put up an a D or an F. How are you going to react? Is it going to be the world's going to crash and everything's going down the road? Or Johnny, what did we do differently this time? Did we prepare? Did we study? And I think it's very important to make sure that we always bring it back to the process. The results are going to be what the results are, right? Some place, somehow, some way. My dad told this to me, and I think it helped me play goalie better. Is like the hockey gods have already written down the school, the score, and it is what it's going to be. So just go out and play. You be you, right? So don't think about what could be, think about what is in that moment. And you can't think about the last shot. You have to think about the next shot. So if you just let that last one in, you're going to have to be able to reset, readjust, and get refocused for that next one. Um, and I think that's so important too for training. Sometimes we try and fix all the problems at once when you really should just try and highlight or I would say magnify the basic building blocks, the foundational pieces. You know, did you fall were you focused? Were any goals did any goals go in because you weren't paying attention or you weren't ready? Okay, that's that's a problem. If you were ready and you were focused, you get still got scored on. Okay, sorry, it was a good shot, you know, great. It was power play or whatever. You know, did you did you try as hard as you could? Like, did you play the full 60 minutes? And again, it just comes back down to 100% attention, 100% of effort, 100% of the time. And that really comes back down to I think what my dad held me to account. Like, if I didn't play well, but I tried hard, I did everything right, the process was good, the score just didn't reflect what happened. Okay, let's move on, let's get ready for the next one. But there's one game that really stands out in my mind. I went to um I went to South Kent for prep school, and it was the last game before Christmas break. And we were playing Albany, uh, the Albany prep school. Um, and we beat them already. Like it should have been an easy you know game going into Christmas break. Uh, and I was already on Christmas vacation whenever I was getting dressed and I was playing, and and it was pretty evident. Um, and I I I've never never feared getting in the car ever with my dad, except for that game, because I I knew when I when the game happened, we I think we lost by goal, and it was like we dominated them, and the bot goal went in, it was totally my fault. And he drove up to Albany, you know, got out of work. My mom was there, you know, they're picking me up from prep school. They're already, you know, putting a separate mortgage on the house so I can go to freaking prep school and doing all this. And I I'm not showing up and giving 100%. And I I felt guilty, you know, I was ashamed of my performance because I knew everything my parents had to sacrifice for me to be there. Uh, and he said a couple words and the rest of the ride was silent. Um, but I was I was sitting there in in quiet silence and fear, and I never had that happen to me again. And just like anything else, sometimes you need to fail, you need to make mistakes. So then you look you know the consequences. And too many times parents try and protect goalies, players, anybody from their consequences. But really, as you know, 18 and below, there's really not too many things. There, there obviously, you know, we can get into the weeds here. There aren't too many things in hockey that you can do that are gonna derail your hockey career in one game or the other. So, you know, let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. But if things start to trend in one direction versus the other, you know, I think uh an honest conversation is needed. You know, when the kids get to 15, 16 years old, and I see this a lot, you know, they start getting cars, mom and dad ask them to get a job. You know, there's there's relationships, you know, girls, boys, you know, friends, you know, everything involved. And people go one way or the other. They either say, you know what, I'm gonna sacrifice a little bit of my youth, my my, you know, I'm not gonna go out to the party. I'm not gonna go do dumb stuff with my my teenager friends. I'm gonna be committed, I'm gonna be in the gym. You know, that's that's not easy, that's hard. And that's usually where we start to see people kind of take a route, but really comes back down to the goaltender or the individual making that decision. Too many times I see parents get too heavily involved and too much, too, too, I would say too overwhelming, where they create too much pressure, they make the game not fun, and then the kids don't even want to go to the rink anymore. And and that's exactly what we don't want.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

I'll I'll tell you about this. One of the one of the best gifts I got before my son was playing was when he was a mite playing another mite team. I've told this story on here before, and there was a kid out there, all like fully dressed in pads. You can tell his parents went to the nines for this, you know, eight-year-old, which I thought was a little weird. And his mother was behind the glass, literally telling him what save to make, what he did wrong. And I remember my son wasn't a net yet at this point, but I remember thinking, God, I could, I don't I never want to do that to my kid, right? And what's funny is that the way I look at it uh as a we're talking about as a goalie dad now, right? I see hit this position right now at his age, he's nine, as a life lesson developer, right? The the the goaltending skills I kind of stay away from because he's figuring that out. I see it as, hey, you know what? Uh you have developed greatly at when the puck goes in the net. I'm watching you mentally get better every time at refocusing yourself, understanding the situation, something that every nine-year-old has a hard time doing off the ice, right? And to have the ability as a dad to say to my son when something goes wrong away from the game of hey, what do you do when the puck goes in the net? Right. And he it clicks for him immediately, right? Um, and again, I I always joke, it's funny that he would pick the one position I'm not qualified to coach because I could do the rest of it. But I I've loved watching him do that. And I think one of the things, you know, I was talking to a parent yesterday, he had a game yesterday. And I said, one of the things I look for when I when I'm I'm dealing with younger kids is is where do they look after a goal is scored or when something happens. Because we've all seen the kids looks right to their parents and it's it's sometimes it's fear-based. Yeah. And and and you know, Logan will only look at me if he needs to calm down. I've noticed that. Like if if if the game is gonna, he looks at me for comfort, which is by the way, yeah, I'm bragging a little bit in the sense of just proud dad, but that makes me feel so good as a father that I'm a source of strength for him, not a source of fear. But that mother who was doing that taught me everything I needed to know about what not to do. What not to do? Yeah, I was I I I I I really am not critical of him in the position. It's it's always, hey, are you having fun? Are you enjoying it? Do you want to get in between the pipes again next game? That's the only questions I ask him. I'll let you first.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Now I gotta point you. So go for it. Um, so for me, when when when Rye started playing, I had three things that I would say to him before a game. I would say only three things before game have fun, play happy, stay up on high shots. Those are the only three things as a mighty I ever said to him before a game. And he actually has have fun, play happy written on his stick. That's awesome. Um, it's something we actually took from Cam Ward. You can find there's some pictures online. You can find a Cam Ward thing that said, I forget it's have fun or play happy, but that's written on Rye's stick, and I believe he still does this to this day. And if he doesn't, I'm gonna have a word with him. Um it's so true because we play our best when we're happy and we're having fun. And at the end of the day, hockey is a game, and games are meant to be fun. So, but that and like I said, those are the three, it got to the point where we got when we dropped him off at the at the rink, I would turn around and I would sit and I just put up three fingers and he would say, Have fun, play happy, stay up on high shots. And then he'd get out of the car, I give him a fist bump, and that's it. And I mean, now, well, now he's gonna start driving himself to games, which is a different story for me, but um, you know, when I drop it. Um, but now I mean when he gets out of the car, I I turn around, I put my I and I'd say go do your thing, gives me a fist bump, and he walks out. So, I mean, that really is key. You know, find one little thing to say to your to your goalie before you drop him off at the rank. You don't need and it should be nothing technical, it should be nothing about hockey itself. You know, whatever it is, three little words and just go let the kid go.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

I've got two. I tell him every game, I love you no matter what happens out there. Like win or lose is not going to respect it, it does changes nothing about how I feel about you. And then the other thing I tell him, and we had a guest, John O'Sullivan, who who turned me on to this. I just I tell him I love watching you play, and that's it. That's the only thing I tell them before again. Huge, it's all it should matter.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

So if I can touch on just this aspect, and I think it's so crucial for just looking at just the hockey, the position, and also just bigger and you know, beyond the sport. I'm I'm sure anybody that's on on this call or listening has had an experience with somebody that could not manage their emotions. When something went wrong, you had, you know, maybe a little buddy, a friend, or a coworker that just, you know, a little bit of a whiny baby, maybe they, you know, maybe they threw a tempered tantrum, or they're just unruly and you can't deal with them. You know, I watch goalies play, and one of the things that I hate the most, and Mitch brings this up all the time, especially at lessons, you know, if a goalie gets scored on, they slam their stick, or if they start to, you know, you could just see the body language change from being focused, dedicated, committed, confident to oh no, here we go again. I'm stuck in quicksand, I'm getting pulled down. Um, and I was an emotional goaltender and an emotional young man when I was when I was playing. I I uh I grew up watching Hexall. So uh you know how that kind of maybe influences me.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

So I'm gonna know who that is, go YouTube, search him, and you'll know exactly what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_04 34:07

YouTube, the one Hexall versus Chelios. That'll that'll pretty much give you the whole gist of it. Yeah, uh, so I grew up watching him as a Flyers fan, and and he was emotional, he was unruly, he was chaotic. Uh, and I started off that way. And after a while, um, yes, I was making saves, yes, I was making the good teams, and yes, I was winning games, but after a while it started getting to the point where you know I was putting myself in a position or my team in a position to have to manage my emotions, right? I would put my team at a disadvantage where either I was getting all unruly and distracted and I wasn't worried about stopping bucks, or I was getting penalties. Um, and I think it's so important now that as I'm older and more mature, the lessons that I learned how to control those emotions at an earlier age allowed me to manage bigger situations, more pressure situations, and also just be in situations that require a lot more responsibility. You know, if you were if you're a co if you're a player and you your coach makes a mistake and he throws a trash can or a water bottle and starts, you know, this, that, and the other thing, how does that affect you as a player? You know, when I was in in the room, it would make me feel more more nervous, more uncomfortable. I was more worried about making a mistake. So then I flip that back on myself as a player. Like if I'm doing this, how how's my D going to react? How are my forwards going to react? How's my coach going to see me play? You know, if I throw a tempo changer and I'm throwing my stick or it hit my stick, you know, he's thinking on the bench, man, Matt lost it again. I got to get him out of the room, I got to get him out of the net. Um, and you know, just to be around that, I would say, emotion, it's contagious. So just like anything else in life, if you're giving out positive vibes, if you're giving a positive, you know, aura, the people around you kind of play off of that and it's contagious. The same thing on the negative side. If you were if you're a cancer in the locker room, if you're unruly or uncoachable on the ice, all of a sudden it goes from you to then infecting your D, then your forwards, and then all of a sudden the whole culture of the team kind of starts to dwindle away. So, you know, managing emotions that especially in this position is so very important. And the earlier that we can encourage that, the better it becomes. And I think it really does come back down to the parents, where you said this. And for me, I was very fortunate. I had my do you ever watch the 70s show growing up? Which one? The 70s show where we had Red Foreman and Kitty. So, for those who don't know my parents, that's kind of the dynamic of my parents. I have Red Foreman, my dad, he was sheriff. Uh, and my mom was Kitty. She was the sweetest, she is the sweetest thing alive. Uh, and no matter what happened, I always knew that I had my rock, my my uh, my mom, that no matter what, Matt, you did great. I love you. I have so much fun watching you play, giving me a big hug. What do you want? What do you need? And then my dad was, you know, a little bit more quiet, a little bit more uh uh um hockey driven. And he would ask me basic questions. How do you think you played? Good, bad, right? Okay, how did the goals go in? Perfect. Okay, what can you do next time? Great, boom, on the on to the next one. That was it. And it was nice coming from my dad that I respected because you know, I watched them be on the ice with pretty good hockey players, like and coached them. So I knew you know, there's a lot of things I can argue with my dad about and have difference of opinion about, but hockey was never one of them. Uh, and it was always what my dad said goes, and I respected it. And he put me in a position to be very successful and get a lot of exposure to high-level athletes. And when I was on the ice with some of these NHL players, they they never, I mean, every once in a while they'll have a temper tantrum, and they're adults are allowed to do that. But 98% of the time, it's strictly business. They're professionals, they're doing it, they're doing the process, they're getting the results that they want, and then they're reflecting and then retry and trying to redo it again. Um, and I think that's so very important to managing your emotions, controlling your body language. Body language is a huge piece that Mitch brings up every single time that we're on the ice with our goalies. Is if you look down and out, or if your shoulder shoulders are slumped, you know, it's contagious. If you're up, you're energetic, you look like you're engaged, you know, it's contagious. And and this position, I hate to say this, but it's very opinionated. You know, you can look at on a forward or a defenseman and look at stats and say, okay, this guy's bringing value here or there or somewhere else. You know, as goalies, you know, stats don't always tell the story. So sometimes people get so bogged down, and like Mitch said, what is my save percentage? What's my goals against average that it can be overwhelming? And that's really where their focus needs to be. But it really should just come back down to the underlying uh way that you carry yourself around the rank, your focus, your commitment, your dedication. And that's gonna really set the foundation to be successful, not only at the younger levels, when you know hockey's really meant to be fun, uh, but for those that are fortunate enough to make it to the junior levels and college levels and pro levels, they're gonna come back and and try and utilize the lessons that they learned earlier on in life. And if they don't have those opportunities, or if people shelter them from consequences, they're never going to be able to manage the the bigger, fresher cooker situations. Uh, I mean, look at Aiden Hill. I mean, Aiden Hill from the Vegas Golden Knights, you know, if if he if he managed his emotions differently earlier on his career when he was getting bounced around playing the A, he's a he was a third goalie this year for Vegas. You know, do you think that that that opportunity would still be there? Do you think the coaches and the players would still have the same type of confidence in him in this scenario? No, it's because of what he was doing, and he kept his mouth shut, he put his nose to the ground, ground, and he kept moving forward and doing everything that he could in his in his power to be successful. And he just waited. He was paid aggressively patient. He prepared himself for the opportunity that would come. And when it did come, he's prepared to manage it. And if he you know derailed his success along the way because he was upset, or if he wasn't getting the success that he wanted at the time frame that he did, you know, I've seen a lot of goalies quit when they're pretty much one step away from making a pretty good career. You know, going from that eight, the midget level to junior level is very difficult. Going from juniors to college is even more difficult. College to pro is even more difficult. And the ones that make it aren't always the ones that are the best, but they're the mentally strongest. They're the strongest mentally, they can handle adversity. Uh, they can get told no 10 times and still ask again, uh, and continue to move forward. So the mental aspect, the emotional aspect is so very important and key to goaltending. Um, and I just wanted to bring that that piece up. I I I can talk about this stuff for days, and sometimes I kind of talk for a while. So I feel like I'm monopolizing the time here.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

It's your it's your episode, buddy. You know what? That's true. I want to I want to throw it to Mike because Mike, Mike has been heavily involved with USA hockey and developing a lot of the goaltending education that's going to be coming out, right, Mike? And um, you know, the the position itself is constantly changing tactically, uh mentally, as you just said, Matt. You know, we're we've been talking on the show. You could start doing mental training at eight years old. I mean, you don't have to wait. But Mike, I want to throw it to you because I'm sure you have questions about um just development of goalies in general from a from a broader sense.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yeah, well, I don't want to so I don't want to glance over a glance over Mitch's story. Um, a non-player, a parent saying, Oh, you know, I think I want to get into coaching. So, Mitch, what what are some strategies? And I I have another question as well, but sure my my I I guess I'm fascinated by this because you know, I I didn't play lacrosse growing up. Uh I didn't even play lacrosse in high school or college. And I'm probably the best lacrosse coach I know. I mean, easily. Uh because and and and it's only because I I love teaching.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

He's not lying. I mean, I know him. He's he's not lying.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

I am I'm I can I I I just I just uh I I I look at it because I've studied the game. I've I've immersed myself in the game. I found ways to find the best people around me that played the game and help me understand where's the stick go? What kind of head should I have? What kind of what kind of uh you know, what kind of positioning should I be uh looking for and encouraging at the youngest ages that it's gonna, you know, that's gonna manifest itself later on when they're 18 and 19, lefties and righties, all that kind of stuff, right? That you don't need to be a lacrosse. Like I I'm I'm sure I could coach, you know, anything as long as I could uh get it get myself in front of the right people. So can you just give a little bit about you know not the journey of getting to where you are now, but what are some of the strategies you did other than going out and playing? Right. And and I think maybe one of the advantages of not having that kind of you know, all of that other baggage of your own playing and growing up, and then how do you restructure that when you're teaching these young goaltenders?

SPEAKER_03 42:49

Yeah, so when I first when I started and I and I got the equipment, I w I didn't want to be the guy who and guys who played against me will probably say I look like it anyway, but it's okay. Um I didn't want to be the guy who's just like floundering around and just keeping the puck out of the net. I wanted to learn how to play the position. And the first goalie coach I went to was a guy by the name of Tim Andra. He had a synthetic, ironically, a synthetic setup in Westchester. Um, I got equipment, called, and I and I reached out to go as I did not know of Matt at the time, so I apologize. Matt, in advance that you weren't my first goalie coach there. But I reached out to a number of people, and Tim got was one of the few that got back to me because I'm sure they're like, I don't want to tell this 38-year-old. I don't want to waste my time on that. But Tim called me, he's like, Yeah, I'd love for you to come in. I go in. I didn't know, I mean, I didn't know what to do with toe ties, I had no idea. So he helps me to get dressed and he basically says, Okay, go out, go to the net and let's see what we can do. He just starts taking shots on me. And I get to the net, he takes like what felt like a hundred shots was probably like five. But um I make a bunch of saves, I think. And he comes up to me and he says, You're kidding me. And I said, What do you mean? I mean, I can't, was I that bad? And he says, You've never done this before, you've never put on gear. You've and I said, No. And he's like, You're pretty good. And I look at him like, what do you mean? He's like, How do you know how to butterfly? And he's like, I watch. So it's just a matter of I watch. I mean, when I went to games, I mean, my wife and I, our weekends before we had our son, we would travel, we went actually, we went to every we've been to every AHL, ECHL rinks in the Northeast and all the way out to Michigan. Um, we just our weekends, we would just go to Rochester. Look, let's go to Rochester. There's a game, the Amarks have a game, let's go. Um, so it just it was a thing for us. Um, so that's how I started. I I so it was just about watching and I got it. Um, and from there it was just a matter of getting the opportunity to coach. And and then I went to Matt, like I said, we had some father son stuff, and it just bloomed from there. I mean, I if you told me, you know, seven years into coaching that I'd be where I am now, I'd I'd say you're nuts. Like there's no way that's ever gonna happen. Then certainly starting from you know, coaching in my basement to now, you know, coaching some of the best women players in the world and some of the top tier one players, you know, out there, it's It's amazing. But the one thing I want to stress is that it's not just about getting those players at the higher level, it's about seeing some of the players that we've had for five, six, seven years start off in the basement who are now going to be playing very, very high level hockey. Um, and we still have the relationships with those parents who still come to us every week or once a month or twice a month. It's just it's it's the journey's been phenomenal, and we're not done yet. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Yeah, so so based on your experience and based off of your your kind of your story and how you developed, and it sounds like you've got some great mentorship and coaching. I mean, it's so different coaching an adult. I mean, I I coached a an ex-NFL lineman that when he was like 40 years old, he's like, Is Marc Messier still playing hockey? I'm like, Yeah, he goes, I'm the same age as Marc Messier. I can play hockey. I'm like, no, no, you can't play hockey. It is a whole different thing. And and he learned how to play hockey's playing adult league to this day, you know, probably the largest uh human being on the ice. But um, but but but that being said, is that kind of shape the way you think about training goaltenders? Like, do you just take what's given to you and then use that? Or do you say, you know what, you're gonna be this type of goaltender? I'm gonna force you to be into this kind of position.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

No, so I mean, my biggest thing, and Matt and I have the same philosophy. There's no one way to play the position. Um, you have different body types, you have different sizes. So for me, as long as the puck's not in the net, that's really the most that's the first most important part. You know, the everything else kind of goes from there. Yes, there are structures that we need to put in place, the shuffles, the T pushes, the butterflies, getting up with the proper leg and that kind of thing. But how everyone plays, I mean, if you look in the NHL, I mean, Vasileschi doesn't play the same way as Aiden Hill. Uh Babrowski doesn't play the same way as Jonathan or similar to Jonathan Quick, but you get my point. It's so it's a matter of taking that goalie, whether they're six foot four or five foot nothing, um, and putting them in the right position to make saves. Um, the one big thing that I'm a big believer in when you talk about the mentorship is I I really want my goalies being the guys who are demoing because I know no one wants to see me demo. Like I know my limitations. So I think it's very important to always have on the ice an experienced goalies saying, okay, here's the drill we're gonna do. So and so hop in that and do it. Or if you see a goalie, maybe do something incorrectly, have that goalie come over. And that also empowers that goalie saying, wait a minute, he trusts me to teach this kid how to do something, and that's part of our whole process. Um, and we we like I said, we really encourage our younger goalies or more experienced goalies, whether they're like 14, 15, to really start helping out with our coaching.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Yeah, it's awesome. And Matt, you know, maybe maybe geared more towards you too, is then when you see that goaltender that I've seen it really at the youth level, I'm sure Lee's seeing it a lot now, right? The goalies that watch their favorite goalie and try to make themselves that goal. Like how much, how much um, you know, mentorship and conversations you having with that player says, I I know you love doing this and you think you look like this player, but this player is like you're not Vasileschi. You know, you're you're you're gonna be five eight and he's six four. You know, so where where is that line of saying, I love that you're imitating this player, um, but here's we can adjust what you're doing so that you can be the best player that your body's gonna allow you to be.

SPEAKER_04 48:32

It's a great question. And I think Mitch touched on this and helping him grow as a goalie and grow as a coach is he watched a lot of hockey. And I think some of the biggest pieces of my development at a young age was I got to watch a lot of hockey. And I think not enough uh younger players do that now. I think they're behind their computer screens or behind their their their their iPhones or everything else, and instead of going out and watching as much. Um, but I also think it's very important to make sure that we're not trying to overcoach too early. Um, so you know, I grew up, I I loved watching Mike Richter, I loved watching Namaki. I mean, one of my favorite goalies ever was Nabakoff that played for the San Jose Sharks and everything else. He was a very narrow goaltender, um, very athletic, and and I wanted to emulate my game around him. Um, and it really does help as a younger goaltender to watch other examples that do what you're trying to do and be successful with it. But the point you brought up that you can't you can't just put on their clothes and be there, right? You you're gonna have to dress yourself and you're gonna have to do your own thing, and everybody else is going to come up with their process that fits their mold. So I think it's important. I think it's great. It's a huge aspect of goaltending is watching other goaltenders, better goalies play so you can see what works for them. But I don't think anybody should ever try and 100% mirror somebody. Like when I grew up, you know, I watched, like I said, my goalies, I took one piece from this goaltender. You know, I watched Hexall growing up. I thought he was a great puck handler. I wanted to handle the puck just as well as him, but I didn't like really watching him later on in life stop the puck. He was not, he's not the prettiest. Um, but then I really like watching Ninomaki play for the Flyers. Like I'm a Flyers guy. So Ninamaki was a beautiful butterfly, great, smooth, controlled, but never really got out of his net, never really found like the high, highest level in the NHL. And you watch guys like a Richter, who was you know a local guy, five'eight, you know, perfect. He's my build. But the style that he played when I was watching growing up isn't the style that I was playing when I was 18, 19, 20. But you can take little pieces. I mean, again, move remove hockey. And let's just say you're you're a world-renowned cook. Like you may have your own recipe for your you know, chicken parm, uh, but then you go to another restaurant and you taste it's a little bit different. Okay, what did he do here? How did he add what spices did he add? And you're gonna continue to evolve and then create your own style. And when you get to a point where you're able to take some of the foundational pieces that you watch from somebody else, and then you get to the level where you have the intelligence and the confidence to come up with your own opinions, you're gonna mesh and spawn together your own style uh with the foundational movement, such as like Mitch said, you know, I don't care who you are, what level you play at. There's things, there's there's non-negotiables that you need to do. Uh, but every T-push, every shuffle, every save is a little bit different depending on the covering. Um, and everybody should try and be unique, but utilize past experiences or other goaltenders to come up with a better process for yourself.

unknown 51:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

You know, one of the things I wanted to bring up too is that I'm kind of shifting this for the audience who maybe don't have a goalie in terms of they're not a goalie parent or they're a younger coach. You know, from a layman's eye, they're all doing the same thing, right? They're just keeping the puck out of the net. Right. Um, and I've heard coaches say, like, yeah, your job is just to stop the puck. And I'm like, yeah, it's a little, it's a little short-sighted. Uh, in reality, when you start to dive into it, Mitch, as you did, Matt, as you know, it's an extremely complex position. Uh, it's extremely complex. Um, and I wanted to dive into that a little bit, especially for the audience to understand. You know, one of the uh I've been uh obviously befriended and I'm friends with a lot of goaltenders. And and one of the uh pieces of advice I got recently, and Mitch, you kind of alluded to this a little bit, is that you know, you can't just drop to the butterfly on every shot, you know, and and you want to stay up. And and the reason, the reason he gave me is well, do you want your kid having a knee surgery or surgery when they're 18 years old? But it's a good point, right? I think from from a coaching aspect, a lot of times it's I see, hey, drop to your butterfly, drop to your butterfly. Um, I I don't want to give advice on that. I want you to to give advice on that. But can we talk for a little bit about just you know, the position is not what you think it is if if you don't know a lot about it?

SPEAKER_03 52:51

It I mean, it's there's so much involved, and it and like I said, you you see you see coaches say, why is he on why is he standing? Why is he standing? And some of it, I mean, quite honestly, is that when coaches design practice plans, they don't have the goalies in mind, especially younger goalies. You know, what they don't understand is that that a shooter comes in on a two-on-o, and they go to the back of the line and they get 30 seconds or 40 seconds to recover, whereas the goalie, before they can even get up, that next two on oh is already coming in. And after like the fifth or sixth rep, like I said, especially for the goalies under like 10 or 12, it's like, and when there's only one goalie, it's like, why is he still down? Why, why, why is he tired? Um, so I think the one the one thing I would stress, and and we talked, we try to educate coaches is keep your goalies in mind with some of these drills, um, so that you're not gassing them out in the first five minutes of practice. Um, but yeah, I mean, the the key thing for me when when when my son was younger going to practice, I would just say we need to focus on one thing, um, whether it be your recoveries, whether it be tracking in. And at the point that you're exhausted, if there's only one goalie, you you might actually just tell the coach, Coach, I need a I need a break. Um, and I think goalies do need to advocate for themselves to so they're not completely gassed um for an entire practice. I mean, they need to be there for that full hour. And if they're doing 20 butterflies in the first two minutes of practice, how effective are they gonna be the rest of practice?

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Right. I've I've even told my son, not you know, hey, you in the beginning, in the very beginning, you do what you need to do to be warm before you start hurting yourself, right? Because I've seen it where six kids will come in on him and make deeks. It's like I told him Logan, you don't have to stop every one of those, right? You you need to do what you need to do to get warm.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Yeah, you don't have to worry about uh ripping any hamstrings there at eight and then that's true too.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Yes, I was wondering if you could dive in a little bit about um coaching girls and women. You know, my daughter played college hockey, and I gotta tell you, I don't know how the goalies on her team didn't rip hamstrings. The flexibility was just incredible for these young women in the net. Um yeah, and they're just phenomenal at times, just standing on their heads. Um, and they oftentimes just kept us in the game. Amazing talent there now. What are you seeing?

SPEAKER_03 55:20

Oh, I mean, I had honestly, when I was coaching with the coaching with the Rivetors, I would have to get up at 520 in the morning to get up to the rank up in North Jersey. And I can tell you, there was not a single morning that well, most of the time I got up before my alarm even went off. There was not a single morning that I was not, I was like, you know what, I really don't want to go today. Like I would wake up during the week, I'd be because I I would go one once or twice a week. If I could go every morning, I would have gone every morning. Um, the goalies that I had there were absolutely phenomenal to work with. Um, the biggest difference that I see between men and women goalies is that the women goalies are much more engaged, they ask a lot more questions. They want to know more of the why and and why are we doing this drill? I don't, I rarely have a goalie is and Matt, you can answer the question too, but I rarely have a goalie say, Why are we doing this drill? What's the purpose of this drill? Whereas I would do a skating drill at the start, and one of the goals say, Why are we doing this? And so it's really important as coaches, we need to definitely know our why and not just go through the motions, say, Well, we're doing this because. Well, because isn't an answer. Um, but they're so engaged, and I have to tell you, they were so, so talented. Um, I didn't want the season to end. It was just, it was great. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 56:37

So, so on my side, I think, and kind of touch back on the original question, why is goaltending so different and so difficult? You know, I think it really comes down to there's two pieces to goaltending. There's the technical aspect, technically, and there's then there's tactically, you know, what are we doing it and how do we do it? And when do we use it? And I think that's a big piece of the difference between uh men's hockey and girls' hockey. So, like Mitch said, girls' hockey, they're they're very detail oriented, very focused. You know, how do I do this? How do I how do I make this the perfect butterfly, the perfect T push? And they're very hyper-focused on doing the process 100% perfect. Uh, and sometimes they do it perfectly and then they get scored on, but they still feel good because they did it perfectly. Uh, on the other side, you know, with with with boys, you know, the the technical side, you know, depending on everybody's a little bit different, right? I don't want to generalize everybody, but generally, um, the boys are more about the tactical side of trying to just stop the clock. I don't care how I do it. My job is very simple. My coach gave me a uh a job. I need to stop the puck, I need to protect the net. Um, so it's a little bit different. I mean, ultimately, when we're looking at goalies, it doesn't matter if you're you know uh one or the other. You have to have the flexibility of a gymnast, you have to have the speed of a sprinter, you need to have the hand-eye coordination of a you know a major league batter, you need to have the understanding of offense and defense as an NFL quarterback. Uh, and you also got to be somewhat crazy like a boxer to get things thrown at you and take punches and and and puffs. So it's a it's a big, wide range of skills that everybody needs to come together. And you know, we can teach anybody the technical aspect of how to do every movement, every save properly. But the tactical of when you use it, how do you use it, that's the difficult part, right? That's the art form of goaltending. And when you come back and say, you know, we talked about earlier watching other goalies play, you know, you can mirror, you can, you know, uh do the same type of butterfly, the same type of movement. I mean, when I was growing up and playing, you know, at my later stages, um, Kerry Price was very, very good. Uh, I would go and play a lot of tournaments and showcases and a lot of practice, and I I would watch and you would see goalies that almost look exactly like Kerry Price, move as well, wear the CCM gear, and they're you they're trying to emulate his game, and they're pretty solid, but they look good technically, but they didn't know how to play the game tactically. And then you see other goaltenders when I was growing up, and you know, it doesn't happen as frequently now, but you know, they get the goaltenders that have Mitch Master glove and blocker and pads, and and you and you look at him like, man, this goal, he doesn't really know what he's doing, but then he steps on the ice and he's lights out, right? And and again, I mean that's a big piece where you know, just because you don't have all the nice flashy gear, you don't look as nice as somebody else, you can still do the job. And that's why I think this position is so unique is you know, there's not just one way to do it. And you know, if you're six foot five, you could play one way or you can play another way. If you're five foot eight, you can play one way or you can play another way, but you have to find out how to be successful in your own skin with your own set of skills that are unique to yourself. Uh, and that's really the differentiator where I think boys are a lot more open to being unique and trying things that are different. When I think girls are a lot more structured and it needs to be a tried and true process that you've seen other goalies use, and they're a little bit more open to using those type of teachings.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

That's a great explanation. Thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:02

I appreciate the question. Very good question.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

That's very one of the things we hear one of the things we hear so much too, you know, especially now that we're doing these goalie uh portions of the podcast and really focusing on you know that that that specialized position, which is it, which it is. Maybe you guys could just, you know, both of you could chime in a little bit on the discussion around you know, where is the game evolving now with goaltenders and that long-term uh you know focus on their health? Like and you know, we can talk about the mental health in a little bit, but really physical health. Like you're seeing, you know, back in the day, I never heard of like Tommy Jr John surgery, anything like that, except for baseball players. It was always like, oh, baseball, of course. You're a pitcher when you're eight, you're we're probably gonna get in the major leagues, you're gonna have surgery and they're gonna continue on and you're gonna keep playing. But now we're hearing it from a goaltending side. Um and it's not just about positioning and overuse, right? It's it's really about you know allowing your training other pieces of your body off of the ice. And you know, what what kind of advice would you guys give on the a percentage and then maybe a couple little hints about the fact that goalies which is actually a great thing, don't need to be on the ice every day for development. And and really, you know, how can it enhance them not being on the ice?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:19

I'll let you go first. You want me to go first? So I'll I'll let you go first. I'll go first. So, I mean, the one as you pointed out, I mean, you do not need to be on the ice every single day, that's for sure. Um, I think it's very important that once the season's over is to put your skates away, put the pads away, and take anywhere from four to six weeks and not do anything goalie related. Um, really focus off ice on mobility, on your on your strength training. Um in season mobility and and making sure that you're stretching every day is and having a good routine, not just saying, well, going down the basement and doing one hamstring stretch for like 30 seconds and then saying, Oh, I'm done, you know, making sure we're foam rolling every day, making sure we're, you know, those types of things. Um, but it's really in season, it's really, really it the the position is so demanding on the body with so much movement up and down and T push stops and going into RVH and those kinds of situations. It's just really important that we're just managing our reps in practices. Um and when you're doing your office training. Um, you know, in season, for me, there's no reason on top of if you're on the ice three, four times a week at praxis to be on the ice at goalie sessions three times a week either. You're just completely overdoing it. And by the way, you also have games on the weekends that are the most important part. So it's just really important. Listen to your body. If you need a morning off, take a morning off. Um, it's just it's so important. Um, but we are hearing more, we're seeing more and more 15, 16-year-olds getting hip replacements because of just overuse. And a lot of it is, you know, playing a style that's not really conducive to your body type, but also not taking care of your body. So I highly, highly recommend. And I'm the first to admit I am not a strength and conditioning coach. That's not my expertise. Go out and seek someone who is who can help you with that mobility and strength and strength conditioning.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

Let's say we're we're seeing this in all sports, right? My Mike, I was actually just watching a video the other day of uh uh uh division one football team, and they were just doing hip mobility. And and it's funny to see the players, you know, when something's new and you can see players' faces, and like, why are we doing this? Because an expert knows what they're talking about. Um moving away from the body for a minute. I wanted to ask this question. I think this will be valuable for everybody. And I think that there may be multiple processes for processes for this, processes, whatever the word is. Um, how do you guys handle communication with goaltenders from a coaching standpoint? Who's gonna be playing in a game? Uh, you know, if you're splitting a game, right? You know, or there's the scenario too. You want to split a game, but the the starter's playing really hot and you can't take them out, right? How do you handle that communication and the trust that needs to be there in order to make that happen? And and go over good and bad, because I I think a lot of coaches that don't know the position make mistakes with this. Can I can I start with this one, Mitch?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:14

Because this one I I love. So so, first off, uh I think it should change as they get older. So let's let's just say we'll draw a line in the sand at at 14 years old. So, in my mind, 14 years and younger, the game isn't that uh that meaningful per se, right? You know, wins and losses, they mean something in the moment, but just like I said, when you get in the car or the next state doesn't really matter. No, not really. But once you get over, you know, 15, 16, you're playing you know, high-level midget, you're playing juniors, you're playing college. Okay, now the games are starting to be more meaningful. So let's look at 14 and below. Um, one of which I don't think anybody, any goaltender, any parent should be forced to drive hours on end and sit on a bench for a whole weekend. So if they're going to a showcase or going to a tournament, uh, Johnny should not be playing all the games and Billy shouldn't be sitting on the bench for all the games. I think that's so unfair. Uh, and one, it also hinders the development of the position. And we all know that's on this podcast, goalies are in high demand, and we need to encourage more goalies to play this position so this sport can continue to grow. But too many times goalies start, they don't like it, they get too much pressure, and then get kicked out, um, or they just quit. So at a younger age, I think it's important to make sure that it's it's clear, concise, uh, and upfront. So let's just say if we're playing on a Saturday, you know, you get to the rink. You know, some coaches like to tell them on Thursday, if you practice Thursday, you're playing Saturday. Let's tell the the goal, the starter on Thursday. You know, at a younger age, you know, it's it's a it's a luxury. I don't think it happens too often. And you really, I don't think it's that big of a deal. But when they show up to the rink and they're starting to put their bags down in the in the locker room, somebody should know who's going, right? Who's who's the responsibility for the net today, who's the responsible for the backup? And it should be clear and concise from the start of the year at that at that level that both goalies should always stay ready, right? And whether Johnny starts and Billy's going to back up, Billy, you might have to go in because Johnny might not have a good game. They're young, they're they're allowed to be kids. All right. So I think it should be open, up front, clear before anybody starts to get dressed. Too many coaches, I think, sometimes tell don't tell them till after warmups are over.

unknown 1:06:25

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:25

Warm-ups go through, little Johnny, you're going to start. You know, that's a hard, that's a hard thing for a young person to manage and to uh to do, not only on one side, not only just step in the net and play, but little Johnny that hey, I really want to play this game. I had a great warm-up. Coach didn't pick me. Now he's on the bench, now he's all you know, deflated. He's not gonna be a good teammate, he's not gonna be engaged. Now let's flip it around to the older. So let's just say midget and above. So most midget programs, if they're a high level, they're practicing three times a week. You know, usually it's Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or some form of that. You know, if you're going into a big big weekend, I think it's important that on Thursday before they start practice, it is clear who's going to start for the weekend. So that goalie that's starting on Friday or Saturday can, I would say, attack that practice a lot, maybe slightly different. You know, ultimately, you know, I try to tell myself. I don't care if you're playing or backing up or whatnot, you should attack every practice the same. I was lying to myself. I mean, that's almost impossible, right? If I'm backing up on a Saturday and my practice is on Thursday, you know, in my mind, I'm probably going to be a little bit more pissed off. I'm probably going to put a little bit more effort in, trying to get a little bit more of a sweat going because I know I have two days almost of rest and I might have to play Sunday. If I'm playing Saturday and I'm practicing Thursday, maybe I'm not going to go down as much. I'm going to save the hips, save the knees. I'm going to work a little bit more on tracking. So I think the earlier that you can tell them within the right within reason, the better off it is for everybody. It allows both parties to better understand their responsibility and to get better mentally prepared. I hate goalies and sorry, I hate coaches that wait until after warm-ups, or you know, they're sitting in the starting lineup in the room and they're saying, okay, and you're going. Why are we doing this differently as goaltending in our sport? I don't I don't think it's fair. Uh, I also think it's it's makes it even more this this position's difficult as it is. Like as coaches, as as parents, as as mentors, we should be trying to make this an easier position, easier mentally, easily, easier physically. And to not know and have uncertainty leading up to that first drop of the puck, it's uh it creates extra stress. So I like being a little bit more upfront and honest and transparent earlier on in the process. But um, you know, for for when I was coaching NCAA, I we would practice Thursday, we would leave Thursday night and go to our game on Friday and Saturday. You know, at the end of Thursday skate, you know, it was probably already kind of known because in college we put up lines uh and my practice plan before everybody steps on the ice. And I had a um a pretty transparent, not never voice this, but it was pretty transparent. I put first line, second line, third line, fourth line. If you're on the fifth line or if you're in the fourth line of uh D, you're probably not going to play. And if you're slided, slated as number two on the list in the practice slot, you're probably gonna be backing up. But you know, again, it was it was that final communication where this is the starting lineup, these are the four guys, these are the four lines, and you guys, this guy's on the wing center wing 2D, and our starting goal is this. I think it allows everyone to have a uh you know a breath of fresh air, get their mind right, and be able to play the best whenever the weekend rolls around. So, Mitch, I know you you've been involved in the college hockey as well and a lot of other teams, Hill and and the like, you know what's your opinion?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

Um, so I agree 100% with you um on you know 14 going under 14. I personally think you know you should be rotating your goalies. Um, I agree that if you're driving however many hours to a showcase and you have three or four games, every goalie should absolutely play. Um, the one thing I will say if you're playing in a tournament and we get to you know game four, and that's the championship. If Joey's playing better than Mikey, even though it's Mikey's turn in the rotation, I have no problem going back to Joey and say, Joey, you were in your ice this weekend. You know, we're playing for a championship. Let's go. And you know, Mikey, it's nothing personal, but Joey played better. So it's it's your spot, it's your spot this weekend. Um, as we get into you know, you know, midgets and up, banned midgets and up, um, I still think that you know, goalies need to play, you know, to drive a long distance and you have a three-game weekend for one goalie to play all three games. Number one, you're asking a lot of that goalie. Um, there's a lot of pressure on not only physically but mentally. Um, so it you know, if it's a three-game weekend, obviously one goalie's probably gonna get two games, one's gonna get one. However, you work that out, it's fine. Um, but in terms of communication, I always think 24 hours in advance. Let the goalie sleep on it, know he's playing or not. Um that being said, if something happens that morning, then obviously you can make a game day decision. But in general, I the Rivetors, we always give the goalies 24-hour notice. Um at Alvernia, same thing. So it's 24-hour notice, let the goalies sleep on it. That way they know, get a good night's sleep and be ready for the next day.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:13

One extra point in this, because I think Mitch, you brought up one thing that I didn't get to touch on. I I think it still should be somewhat merit-based, right? I think I think just like anything else in life, if you're not pulling your your if you're not doing your job, you shouldn't be rewarded. So if you're missing practices, if you're not working hard in practice, or if your mom and dad's not bringing into the games, you uh you shouldn't be slated into the next game that you're coming to, right? There's commitment, you need to be part of the team. You know, if little Johnny's, you know, throwing a temper tantrum and and not being a valuable member of the team, he shouldn't be rewarded because he didn't play the other game. He's pissed off. Okay, fine, let's teach him how to manage those emotions, just like anything else. Like if I go and apply for a job and I don't get it, I'm not gonna go run home and cry to everybody, and then you know, someone's just gonna give me a job. No, I'm gonna have to put my boots back on and go back out there and knock on doors and get a new new opportunity. It's the same thing with goaltending. And again, that's the that's what I try, and I think Mitch does is a good time. I always try and remove the hockey part of the equation when we're having conversations with parents or kids, because too many times we get the blinders on and hockey's everything, but really hockey is is wait.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:19

Is it not? Is that what you're are you saying that it's not? No, I'm I'm taking it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:22

It's it's a vehicle, it's a vehicle for life lessons. And you know, some of us that are so fortunate that get to play this sport for an extended period of time and make a living from it, you know, though those those are really the exceptions, right? And too many times in our sport and other sports, I think coaches and people are geared towards helping or coaching towards that exception when you're forgetting about 90% of the other population, right? So, yes, if if you get a if you get a you know a Jonathan Quick or you know a Spencer Knight that's coming on your team and he is you know head over heels better than the other goaltender. Okay, that might be a slightly different scenario and a situation. But if we're just speaking in general terms of a normal, you know, triple A, double A team, you know, that that that should be geared towards what makes the most sense for the growth and development and the and the health of my team, not just how am I going to help this one player reach his pinnacle. Um, and I think too many people get blinded by, oh, I have a Johnny Goodreadow on my team. I'm only focused on that guy when really you're forgetting about all the other players. And you know what? No matter what you do, that Johnny Goodrew, that Spencer Knight, they're good. They're going to be good, they're going to continue to climb the ladder. So remember where you're at in terms of the development stage and what team that you're coaching, because each level requires a different level of attention and communication and accountability.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:49

Uh I'll just, if I may, add one point to that quickly, guys, because you know, the ability to team build, and and you guys know I do that, you know, and build the trust, right? You know, I witnessed this weekend, I'll just say I was in a professional hockey environment coaching, and uh, we had a situation where one of our goalies got pretty hot um and it interfered with who was playing. But there was such a trust built up between the coaching staff and these goalies that we were able to accurately describe the situation, the goalie completely understood. And we still got into a situation where he had to come in. It was a situation he had to come into the game. He was there, fully committed to the team, didn't miss a beat, right? And but we spent the time building that trust before we even started playing, you know, in in practices, in games. So the team knows like we're all doing what's best for the team, right? So while it's look, it's never easy to tell someone you're not playing. All right. That's that's not limited to goaltending, right? It's it's just never easy. Uh, if the trust is established, you can communicate it effectively. You're not fear-mongering or playing mind games. Most players can handle it, right? And especially if you give a roadmap of, you know, you're not playing because of this. Let's work on it, let's find a way to get better at it. I find most athletes, most, not all, can handle that, right? Especially if you're providing the road. And I think with goaltending, I am not a goalie coach, but it when I coach, I try and build that trust so that the goaltenders do understand. Look, I I want you to know I care and that that I'm doing the best I can here to make sure you know where where my mind's at.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:21

And if I could, um I think that's very important at a younger age, right? Because I I think the younger ages, and and in my mind, again, I'm thinking like 18, 16, and below. It is pretty evident, evident sometimes the differences between one goal and the other. And in your mind, you know, just look at the eye test, you know. Okay, that that's my number one. I think it gets even more difficult when they're at the higher levels, and there really isn't a big differentiator between the two. And those are difficult conversations as coach and a difficult conversation as a goaltender. When you walk into I remember this, and I used to do this to myself. I would go into the coach's office when I wasn't playing and I would ask why. And I would sometimes leave that meeting even more upset, right? Because all he would tell me is good things, like right, right. You're telling me I'm doing this right, I'm doing that right. You know, great. You just have to be patient, and that's hard, right? That's a hard, that's a hard conversation to have. And the only way that I was able to manage those mentally is because of the experiences that I had at a younger, younger goaltender, right? I was able to play play off of those experiences. Yes, maybe I didn't get all the success I wanted at this time, but I I put my nose down, I stuck to the process, I kept my mouth shut, I was a great teammate. And when my opportunity came, I was prepared to to seize that moment and not let that net go again. Um, and it's much more difficult as you get older because, you know, I said this earlier, I think goaltending is very opinion-based. And sometimes it just comes down to I have a better feel about this goaltender today. And you can't explain that. How am I supposed to explain that to the the goaltenders that not playing? I just have a gut feeling this one's going to win today. All right, well, great, I'm not playing. I sit on the bench again. Well, I didn't do anything wrong. This doesn't make any sense. But if you're able to kind of get back to your process, right, remember why you're there, you know, take the uh don't ride the roller coasters of the highs and the lows and you stick to the process and you manage things that you can control the controllables, right? Uh, you're able to get through that that piece of adversity and hopefully keep yourself moving forward. Because the last thing you want to do is take that advice or take that that I'm not playing today, and then spiral out of control and never get another opportunity again. Because then all you're really doing is reaffirming his decision to go with the other goaltender.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:37

Right. Yeah, we we talk a lot on our teams about staying present, right? Yeah. Present moment awareness. And as you said, uh, I'm hearing it more and more, which is wonderful, but focusing on what you can control, right? And and that if you take any time focusing on things you can't control, it's literally a waste of your time. I mean, you're you're you could have been focused, right? Um, we're getting way over time, but I have one more question. It's a big panel today, and then Christy and Mike, I'll throw it to you. I'll I promise you I'll shut up. But uh, you know, it's for both of you. But Matt, I'll start with you again. You you did the NCAA journey with the trip, you know, all the way to the AHL. Um, I will say you didn't mention you are an NCAA champion goaltender as well. I think that's an important piece of the puzzle. Um, but this question is for both of you. What's something that nobody knows or that doesn't get talked about enough on the journey up? Right. Because look, as as especially for the younger parents listening, you know, there's stardust all over it, right? You know what I mean? It we all want our kids to get there. But what are the things that you don't know about that that we need to know?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:35

It's lonely and it's really freaking hard. Um, I I think I think someone somebody should have told me that a lot earlier. It's lonely, uh, because you know, along the way, if you really want to climb this ladder and reach the highest levels, you know, especially for me, uh being an undersized goaltender, always having to change somebody's opinion. No, nobody came to me and said, You're my guy. I I had to be the the one that changed their opinion and say, I'm gonna be your guy. I'm gonna make you take me. So that was not an easy road. Uh, and a lot of times you're gonna have to get your teeth kicked in, you're gonna get knocked down, and you're not gonna have anybody to really pull yourself up except for yourself. So it is very challenging. Uh, you have to sacrifice a lot, you know, girlfriends, parties, friendships. You know, I left home when I was 16. I I uprooted my whole life and went to prep school. You know, who who does that? Uh I I missed graduation with my my kid, with my friends that I grew up with uh because I was away. You know, I moved up to Canada. I lived with a random family up in Canada. They were awesome, by the way. Great time. Still talk to them. You know, it's my second family. But you know, you're there was times when I was up in Canada in Brockville and Ottawa, and I'm playing juniors, and you know, you have a bad game and you got nobody to talk to. You can't talk to your you can't talk to your coach because if you talk to your coach, you're gonna show that you know you're you're you're weak or you know, you're having mental issues and and you he shouldn't trust you. You know, you can't talk to your your roommate because then you know, in my opinion, they're gonna look down at you as a goaltender, right? You have to always be this white knight that can come in and save the day. And you have to have you know a bulletproof skin to be able to manage all the things that are coming at you. So even when you're doing well, when you're the best goaltender, you're up at the top. Being at the top is very lonely, right? Because you have everybody looking below you or your goalie partner trying to dethrone you. And when you're not doing well and you're at the bottom, it is lonely because nobody, nobody's really talking to you. You're not the you know, the greatest thing since sliced bread. So every time you go out to dinner or to parties, you know, you're not the one that's being taught to. It's the starting goaltender. Um, so it's very challenging. You have to be very mentally resilient, you have to have faith in yourself that you can manage all these things. And you really have to be, uh, I would say, process driven, right? Know where your goals are at and keep your goals in in, I would say, attainable. Make sure you have short-term goals, midterm goals, and long-term goals. And if you keep that process and you stick to it, you know, when you start to waver or you start to get out of whack, you can kind of pull yourself back into the lane where you need to be to be the most successful. So um anybody that is going to try and climb the ladder and reach the highest levels, be ready to sacrifice and be ready to be lonely. Uh, and if you're if you're good with yourself and you can look yourself in the mirror and still be happy and trust yourself and be, you know, be proud of what the man in the mirror has accomplished, uh, you'll be able to get through a lot of tough times along the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:36

Mitch, I'm gonna throw it to you, but I have to say this real quick. This is why it is so important as parents and coaches, we focus on the mental development of our children along with the skill development. Because you're totally right in everything that you said, and the ability to be mentally strong is just as important, if not more important, than being physically strong. And and we can teach that at a young age. You don't have to wait to be an adult to figure out that life's gonna throw you curveballs from time to time.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:04

Mitch, let me let me throw it to you. Absolutely. So, I mean, Matt, what Matt said is 100% spot on, and there's a reason why I trusted Matt and trust Matt with my son's development. Um, so I mean, I'm not just a client, I'm also whatever. Um, I'm also a coach, I'm also a client. There it is, that's it. So, I mean, it what he said spot on. I mean, it's I mean, what I've seen my son give up, it's I mean, he went away at 14. Um, and he lives away now. And this summer he won't be home at all. He was home for a week, and I will see my son for a week this summer, and that's pretty much it. Hurts my heart. So yeah, it's it's coming, it's coming for you. Um, the biggest thing for me is that that I can pass along is make sure you build a team behind you that you can trust. Uh, you know, get the right goalie coaches, whether it be, I mean, obviously, if you're in the area, we'd love it to be us, but you know, make sure you get the right coaches who are not going to just say what you want to hear, but we're gonna be honest. Um, Matt and I have had some pretty not fun conversations with some of our students. Matt has had one with my own son about that he was being not the best kid in the world and his attitude sucked. Um, last summer I had to do the same for us for a goalie that I've been working with for six years now. That I basically had to sit down after a camp and said, Hey, um, the feedback I got from the other coaches were not had nothing to do with you being a goalie, but that you weren't really the nicest kid in the room. And I had to sit back and say, Listen, this isn't you. And you know, I invited you to this camp as a representative goalie doctor, and you didn't make us look very good. And that's the only comment I ever heard I heard about you all weekend long. Um, so make sure you have a good team around you who will say the things that you need to hear to grow. But it's not just about the goalie coaching, it's also about making sure you have someone who you can trust on the strength conditioning side, um, someone on the mental side. Um, that's the biggest thing. And for me, my one of my favorite things these days, be where your feet are. Don't worry about where Johnny is. Don't worry about where you want to be in a year or two. Have that as a goal. You know, you want to play in the USHL. That's awesome. But where are you now? You're playing for whoever. This is where you are, this is what you need to focus on, and your feet will take you where you're supposed to go.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:18

That's fantastic advice. Um, Mike, Christy, again, I said I wasn't gonna talk much. I'm gonna throw it to you guys if you have anything else.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:24

Just uh wrap up, I we, you know, you gave us a lot to think about, a lot of great actionable takeaways from parents. Um, so it goes beyond just being uh goalie parents, too. I mean, listening to both of you, you can apply to every position on the team. So uh great advice. And I and I loved how you just reminded everybody about playing happy, right? And having fun. Uh, because that is so important. Because when it when that stops, you really need to reassess everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:55

Absolutely. And I mean, the one thing I mean, you mentioned about not it's not just about goalies. I mean, we use a lot of youth shooters in the area um who come out and we we try to tell our shooters like this is an opportunity for you not just to shoot on goalies, but to kind of you're getting inside information on what we're working with how to score. So take advantage of it. And the one thing we we have our shooters is our shooters have a great time. So, I mean, any shooters in the Philadelphia area who are like 14, double A, triple A and up, we'd love for you to reach out to us. We we we're on the ice four or five times a week. We can always use good shooters, and like I said, it's a great opportunity for you not just to shoot pucks and get on the ice, but to kind of learn, oh, he's trying to do that with a puck.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:32

Okay, inside shredder information. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:35

And and I've had shooters, I've I've had shooters come to me after a week saying, Coach, I I did this in a game and it worked. I'm like, well, you you you did a drill for 80 shots in a row.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:45

I would hope I'm gonna retire and become a professional goalie school shooter. I'm I'm putting that out there right now. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:53

Yeah, I'm glad you uh reached it. I didn't I bet you're gonna get a lot of reaction too. I guess we've got some loyal fans listening. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:01

I was gonna say you two are following up Carter Hart. I don't know if you realize that or not on the episode. So that's that's that's that's those are big states to fill. I know. You did you did it well, Mike. Anything before we close this out?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:13

No, no, it just it just reaffirms every time we speak to any good coaches they that the the core principles exist, right, in in uh in player development. Great point. You're a goalie or a forward or a defenseman, you know, just be a good person, you know, be in the moment and um you know build some goals for yourself and and and you'll get there. I think it's just uh, you know, and I think and this one, particularly with the goaltending side, I mean, certainly follow you guys and and take whatever you can. If you're not in the Philadelphia area and you can't get to you, um, you know, like any like any good uh any good coach, go out there and steal it and uh and use it and and and try to you know in impart some of these uh some of the stuff that you guys are doing with your own goaltenders in your own region.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:53

Appreciate you bringing that up. We we have a very large Rolodex of our past lessons on our YouTube channel. So if you go to YouTube, search Shish Goalie Doctor, we have thousands upon dollars and thousands of hours of lessons. And and anybody that needs help or you're looking for extra resources, you know, uh we put them up there for a reason, not only just for our goalies to rewatch, but for other coaches, other players, and everything else. And if I could just kind of wrap this up with one final piece of advice from my side. Um, somebody told me this at a very young age, and and it stuck with me. The way that you do one thing is the way that you do all things. So I've never seen a very high-level uh athlete that's been very, very successful be, you know, a mediocre student and be a phenomenal athlete. Um, so it's usually they're a phenomenal athlete and they're phenomenal students. So the way that you do one thing is really the way that you do all things. And it's very easy for any coach to cross your name off a list. It is very hard for them to keep you on the list. So they're always looking for rhyme or reasons or or that validity of why you're trying to cut you, especially as you get to the higher levels because it's so competitive. So remember the way that you do one thing is the way that you do all things, the way that you walk into the rink, the way that you act around the locker room, you know, if you're picking up trash, if you're mean, if you're mean to the ring staff, that that's that's a big no-no, right? You should treat the the rink staff and the general manager, anybody around the rink, you know, just like the CEO, the CFO of any other company. Make sure you're saying hello, be thankful, you know, be grateful, you know, clean up after yourself, you know, do the little things that are very much within our control that require no amount of hockey skill, just being a good person. And it really does go a long way when you're trying to climb the ladder and leave a positive impression on anybody that you that you come around with or interact with.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:41

Yeah, we talk to our guys all the time, right? That have an end, not a but. You know, and this guy does this, and this guy does this, and oh my god, and this kid does this, not but that kid. Yeah, and uh, you know, that's that's those are great. And again, that's everybody. I mean, that's that's everything you do, and uh it's awesome, awesome advice.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:59

Mike, we gotta get that written on your stick.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:03

I got a lot of things written on my stick. One of them that's not one of them, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:07

All right, guys. Listen, Matt Tandler, Mitch Harris, just a fantastic episode. I I really think we could keep going for another hour here, but but I cannot keep it again. Uh, we will. Yeah, I was I can't keep Mike and Christy as slaves here, but just want to reaffirm for anybody out there, it doesn't matter where you live, it's goaliedoctor.com, goalie dr.com. Um, uh Matt was not kidding about the YouTube channel. They put everyone up, and it is you you can watch it, right? It's it's that's the best part about great coaches, guys, is we share the information. It's not about keeping it close to the chest as much as sharing it and really evolving the game. And you've both done that. So I really appreciate you both for being here today.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:43

Our pleasure. Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:45

Yeah, it goes both ways. So that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Goalie. Remember, you can see all of the Our Kids Play Hockey, our kids play goalie, and the ride to the rink episodes on our channel, our kids play hockey, uh, wherever podcast can be heard. Make sure if you haven't done so already to join our private Facebook group, our kids play hockey. A couple yes or no questions to get in. The conversation continues there. But for Matt Tendler, Mitch Harris, Christy Casciano Burns, and Mike Vinelli. I'm Leo Lyes. That was a lot of names. We'll see you next time on Our Kids Play Goalie. Take care, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, and when hockey stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. Thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.