Do You Need A Break From Hockey??

SPEAKER_00 1:23

We hope it's on a lot of your minds. Should you be taking a break when the season ends and get into the spring, you got spring hockey, summer hockey, and everything. You want to break, a kid might want to break, but it's so hard to know if you should or should not take a break. That's what we're talking about today. And I'm gonna tell you what, this is probably one of the best discussions the panel the three of us have had ever on this show about kind of how to approach the spring and summer with hockey. It's an important episode. It's gonna make you think, it's gonna make you look at yourself, it's gonna make you look at your programs, uh, it's gonna make you look at the kid, right? And really ask the right questions to get the answer to that question. Should we take a break? So enjoy that. Also, if you love this show, which we know you do or you wouldn't be listening, uh, make sure to give us a five-star rating wherever you're listening. Share it with a friend and your Team Snap or wherever your game beats, whatever you're using. Uh, and also visit ourkidsplayhockey.com and check out our uh kind of end of season coaches gift, player gift uh little thing that we put together. So we put a bunch of deals in there for you uh to give you some discounts on some fun things. Again, players, coaches, parents, whatever you're looking for. We got stuff for you there. It's a great way to support the show. Um uh, you know, we're we try not to bring in anything too uh frillish, frills, right? Uh trying to keep this pretty organic. So that's a way you can support us. But again, we're talking about taking a break. I'm gonna take a break from this intro to give you me doing the actual intro right now on our kids play hockey. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. It's almost spring, which means you're getting the pre-tryout superstar skates. Then you've got the tryouts and the evaluations, and you got spring league, you got summer league, then you got the pre-seasoned league, and then you got more. What we're gonna talk today about is taking a break. Uh we talked about this before the show. Uh, we actually have a lot of topics, believe it or not, we want to talk about, but I realized we needed to take a break from those topics to talk about taking a break. And I love it because uh my friends, by the way, Christy Casciano Burns and Mike Benelli is here, uh, as always, and I'm Leah Lies. Um, I'm kind of in this boat too, because I've been weighing back and forth of spring league, summer league for my kid. Um, so again, these are always therapeutic for all of us, but I need the advice myself as the parent of a Mike going to squirt next year. Uh, but before we dive into it, I wanted to do this. I always like to do this. I think we need to humbly brag throughout the episode. Uh, I want to congratulate my kids' Mike team, Hawks Red. They won the uh uh Mike Beach Bash in Ocean City, Maryland over the weekend. Really came together as a team, really played great, uh, went undefeated with two wins and two ties. But to see them come together, you know, that moment where they come together and it clicks, that makes it all worth it, whether they really win or lose. But wanted to congratulate them. Uh, I always like to do that, those shoutouts. But we're here to take a break. So let's take a break from that. And I'm gonna throw it over to Christy Cash and Burns because you're the one who said we had to do this today, and you're right.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Right. And the best time to gel and to click is at the end of the season. So good for you that you guys experience that. Um, but it is time to take a break. It's been a long, cocky season. Uh, you've been together for months, you've traveled together. Um, your car's got how many more miles on it? Thousands. You know, your wallet is empty. It's time to rejuvenate and to let your kids experience some other things besides.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Chrissy, I I would dare to say that it's 2023 and this is already the longest decade of my life.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

It is.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Because of the things that have happened over the last three years.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Oh my gosh, yeah. It is. It is. Um, I always love the end of the season. And it's fun because you know, we always did a banquet, and so we all got to, you know, see each other one last time, and we'd say, see you in the fall. And what and we would try to stick to that. My kids did like to do some spring hockey, just fun and life, but they did other sports, uh, track and lacrosse, and uh that gave them um an opportunity to meet other kids and to learn some other skills and to stay in shape and to get outside and to have fun in other ways. So always look for those opportunities when you can give your kids a chance to experience other sports, other kids, give yourself a break. I loved being able to sit outside during the lacrosse games in my lawn chair and talk to moms and watch. I couldn't stand all those, there were too many whistles. But besides that, the game wasn't as fast as hockey. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you, hockey's my first love, always will and always has been. But it was fun just to be able to, you know, uh meet other moms too, and just to have uh have a chance to uh see your kids grow and develop in other ways. So I'm a huge proponent of taking a break.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

You know, Christy, one of the things you said that I want to tap on is that we talked about the kids needing a break, but you also said we need the break. And I was actually thinking of that when I was doing the intro. I'm like, you know, the weather's beautiful outside and we can go sit outside, but we have spring hockey. You know, I was thinking we need the break too, yeah, um, as parents. And uh it can be tough, especially if your kid wants to play, right? Uh and that's where I'll throw it to you guys is is here's the the situation I'm in. Um, and and listeners, really, this is all genuine. Like, like I'm actually glad to be here today for my therapy session with Mike and Christy, Dr. Benelli, Dr. Christian Cassiano Burns. Um, but so as you guys know, as we talk through the season, my son's a goalie. Um, and now he's transitioning from mite to squirt. So the logical side of my brain goes, well, play spring, play summer, get him those reps in, because it's all squirt at that at that age now. Let him get used to it. Um, but then there's another side of my brain that's like, you know, I could use the break. I mean, keep in mind, spring hockey is only really once a week, it's not, it's not as intensive. Um, and then I started thinking too of uh these are bigger kids, right? Um, and there may be some some understandable um, you know, frustration with that for him that he's gonna have to learn to overcome anyway, right? So it's I I I'm of two minds of the subject. It's do we just kind of take off for the the that five or six week spring season, go right into the summer season? Um, there's also yeah, there's lessons, like there's all these things out there to take. And I don't know if it's like, okay, should we take a break? I'm gonna reiterate to everybody listening.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

From asking him, he wants to play. Like it's not no one's forcing him to do anything. But I'm like, do I need to be a parent here? And so, you know what, we're just not gonna, we're gonna take a little break here.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah, I think you should. Uh I'm I'm worried about burnout with your kid, right? You know, I think he needs I think he needs a break. There's a lot. I I was with you during the whole season, Lee. We were there on your journey. Take a break. Yeah, cocky is still gonna be there, it's not going anywhere. I'm leaning that way. You know, you can jump back in a summer league, keep it light, keep it fun, take a break.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

I'm trending in that direction. Mike, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah, well, it's it's a hard con it's a hard conversation to have when you when you own a rink and and run programming, right? Because that's super fair. You can't own a rink for six months and then close it down and say, oh, well, let's let's all go with the situation that if we want a rink in September, we probably have to have a rink open in March and June. So it's a it's a it's a the real dilemma. I mean, uh, because I think I think so. I think the the key point is finding programming that fits your child's needs that allows them to be on the ice, be in an age-appropriate environment, be in a non-stressful environment, still pay the money, you know, you still pay your rank owner the money they they need to stay open, but the ranks have to do a better job of developing programming, right? Puts more kids and more um diversity of programming into their uh you know, schedule so that parents can choose and allow kids to play other sports at the same time maintaining. I mean, that's where that's where hockey's so different, right? It's so like it's not it's not as simple as, well, when you learn how to ride a bike, you just jump on and you're riding a bike. It's it's you skating it it's such a it's such a piece that separates all the other sports that you can't just shut it down and expect the kid to just pick it up in the time that we are now in in the hockey world. So I agree with Christy. I mean, the other sports are so important. Don't be the what I what I love the most is when I hear parents talk about, well, my kid's a multi-sport athlete. Yeah, but he plays the multi-sports all year round. Like all the sports they play. That's not a multi, that's not what a multi-sport athlete is. A multi-sport athlete is somebody who plays a sport, shuts it down, plays a different sport. In your case, Lee, it it it you have to look at the long-term effects of how much your child loves goaltending. Right. Because what we're finding now is the the the facts are is all this work you do to get your kid to be a great 16 and 17, 18-year-old goaltender, and then they're done because they they have hip surgery. So and they can't walk, right? And at 18. And that happens. We don't we don't talk about it enough. It should be actually, it's an epidemic in in my world. It's like it's the Tommy John of goaltending. That's true, is hip issues and knee issues, and you know, we're and to put these and to not allow these kids to go into a different sport and run and use different muscles and and and really mentally too. That as much as we all want our kids to get better, to Christie's point, they are going to get better. And in fact, they might even get uh improve quicker if they play a different sport, uh, because they're gonna now build. Um, Brian Boyle talks about it, right? He's a strength coach, uh, you know, big famous NHL pro strength coach. And he'll say something like, if you're high school or below and you're doing body specific training, then then that you should you should fire that trainer. Like if you say, Oh, I'm doing leg day today, I'm doing, I'm doing, I'm doing lats today. I'm doing if you're eight, nine, ten years old and you're doing specific goalie training that day, or or or shoot, you know, depending on the season and what position you're in, then then then throw that instructor out. You need to think about your whole body, right? Have fun. Spring leagues are great, summer leagues are great. It's when where I get up, where I get crazy is once you now say we're you're doing a spring program, you're buying all new uniforms, all new helmets, all new gloves, you're going to showcase tournaments that zero anybody will ever see you. There's no, there's no there's no college and prep school coach going to a spring summer showcase tournament for 10-year-olds. None. Zero. So just if you want exposure, the best exposure is make sure your kids are still playing at 18. The only way to do that, yeah, have them not quit.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

And and you are really so right on the wear and tear, especially with goalies on their hips. I mean, even older, my daughter just had uh a labrum tear, you know, and it's just it goes back to just, you know, using the muscles and overusing them. Um, because she was hockey around in college. So um yeah. Yeah, and you don't know, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

You don't know, you don't know if that's exactly like it could just be your your your body, right? And you don't know if that is what caused it, but I would say that you could you could eliminate those pieces by just training your whole body, by strengthening all the different muscles that build into your structures, your skeleton.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

I can tell you both just from playing. I can tell you both as someone who started playing really intense at 12 and really has never stopped. Um, that even I now can see, just from my age and talking to physical therapists, I have several underdeveloped athletic parts of my body that I've had to develop over the last few years because they just never developed. Like I never never had to use them because I was just skating all the time. Um so everything you're saying is true. And Mike, I want to I wanted, I just wrote some things down here too. I wanted to share with the audience because I think it's important to be um transparent as a parent in this because I think it's the only way we're gonna learn. So I wrote down like some of my fears. Like, like, what are what are some of the fears in my mind that are causing me to think this way? Um, and I'm gonna go through them real quick. Like, one was uh you already brought this up, the loss of skill, right? Now, we've been doing this show long enough to know, especially at the age my son is eight, nine, ten, eleven. That's not really a major concern because they're gonna pick it right back up. They'll have the two weeks where they're wobbly and then they'll be back to normal. Um, so I think we've done that. Another one for me, I'm gonna kind of put this out there. Um, was I had this thought of, okay, he's getting into goalies, really getting into it. So he has to catch up, he has room to make up. And the thing is, that's an irrational thought for him, actually being nine years old to begin with, right? Because no one's been playing goalie that long at nine. All right. That's just the way it is. But the other thing, too, is that that's my fear. It's probably not his fear. I've got to recognize that another one of my fears, and this is one that we don't talk about a lot, and I'm gonna say it. Uh, I love hockey a lot. I'm very passionate about it. So there's always a small fear in me. This is not my kid's problem, this is my problem of what if he loses interest in the game and doesn't want to play it anymore? And how devastating that would be for me. And I've had to compartmentalize that, put in a little box, and toss it in the garbage because that is not a way to approach parenting anybody in any sport, right? If I put him into baseball, soccer, anything, and he ends up loving that, in my opinion, it's like, okay, wow, it's a gift that he's found something he loves, or my daughter, too, right? If she loves, right? So those are some of my fears that that affect or can affect decision making. And and one of the beautiful parts about being on this show, or if you're listening to this show, is I've been able to identify those and say these are not reasons to put him in a league, right? Right. And and also, again, I need okay, Chris, you're right. I do need a break. I definitely need a break.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Um, I also wanted to say real quick that that um it doesn't have to be just athletics when you're taking a break. There's also arts and creative things. I mean, I I knew I actually knew athletes that would act in the summer, they'd go to theater. Um, so there's there are there are alternative things to do besides even just sport um to work your mind out. Christy, I didn't mean to cut you off there. Please go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah. Um, I I remember sitting in the stands with a parent and um she had two hockey players. One of them quit. Uh, and the kid was at the rink. And I said, Oh, you know, what happened to your younger son? He doesn't play hockey. No, she was in tears, quite. He doesn't want to play anymore. He doesn't, and I'm so upset. And I I just, you know, I just can't stand that he quit. And I said, I've never seen the kid happier. Because every time I saw him, he was always so miserable. So obviously, it was the parent who wanted it more than the kid. Right. So, you know, be careful of that. And I wrestle with it all the time. Definitely you need to, you need to put it out there because sometimes we want we want our kids to play hockey more than our kids do. And it's really trying to get out of that dream world and recognize.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

I'm I'm gonna tell the audience, I wrestle with this daily. I'm just I'm very I'm just very hyper aware of it, probably too hyper-aware of it. Like, I'm probably too I overthink it at times. But like I remember even at this tournament I was joking about last weekend that the kids had a blast. The kids had a blast. It was a great, it was one of the best run tournaments I've actually seen. All right, but I remember I was talking with the my the head coach of my kids saying, like, you know, I want to play. Like, I just I'm frustrated because I want to play right now. So I I always try and uh keep that in check. I try not to overthink it. This is where I I'm so thankful for my wife, because she'll call me out and be like, what are you doing? What are you doing? He's nine. Like, I always I was like, okay, that's totally fair. Um but I I wanted to bring those fears up because I think it's important because I know that I know those of you listening feet feel this too, right? Because we all feel it, but we just don't talk about it enough. The the other thing I wanted to bring up is that um, Mike, you talked about this too, of like, okay, well, what what if we what if your kid does want to do something? Right? I'll tell you right now, and and and Mike, I'm gonna throw this to you too. Christy, you know this as well. I think from a from a younger standpoint, not even probably up through pee-wee, public session might be one of the best things for your kids to do for just skating in general. You will never see a kid dodging, diving, juking, and using their edges more, trying to get away from the rink guard at public session, you know, than you will at a practice. And it's fun, it's not hockey, and they're working on their skills and they don't even realize it. Not to mention uh just the the you know, they're with friends, you're just hanging out, you know, skating around. I mean, I loved that. Um, I think that's one. I also think just like street hockey, casual street hockey is always a fun one too. Like it's unstructured, just let them play, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

And that's that's that's the fear, the fear of organizations thinking they need to plug in all of these programming components so that their program doesn't fall back. And then the kids, the parents go, Oh my god, well, I've got to join this because the the person that's running the program is saying I have to do it. Right. So if I don't do it, then my kids not maybe not make the team next year, or maybe they're not gonna be valued like the other the other kids on the team. Or now, if all the kids are playing at this level, my kids are gonna fall back and then it catches up with them. All this is just kooky. Like it's like that doesn't make sense to me. Like I'm trying to not swear for for Caitlin. So I I just we can bleep it out. We do I I just I just think it's like we as organizations, it's our obligation and parents to fight the organization saying, listen, we want to spend I want to spend my $600 with you this spring. I really, really do. 800, 1,000, $2,000, whatever it is. But I want to do it in a in a in a in a manageable way that can help all of our kids get better and not put the pressure on any of our kids. Like all of this talk about, you know, oh, well, I you've got to do these tournaments and you've got to do this outside stuff. It it we all keep forgetting that we're eliminating so many people from being able to make rational decisions because who are you gonna be the person that doesn't go to the tournament? Like, are you gonna be the only kid out of 18 kids that doesn't join the team? That's hard to do. So free play, public sessions, uh chances to say at any level you want to come out here on Friday nights. We have Friday night hockey. You want to come, drop in, 20 bucks? That's where kids learn. I think, a matter of fact, I think if I watched many of the coaches that I work with and many organizations I work with, we do more damage by teaching than we do by just letting them play and explore and letting the the high school kids that are out there start start full, you know, going out there and and having contact with the eight-year-olds. And it is, we've talked about this a million times on the show about like the best people to have around your kids are other kids. And and they're just so great. They're forgiving, they're not judgmental, they're not, they want to help, they want to see a kid get better, they want to make passes to that player and set them up for the goal. Like, these are the type of environments that a lot of communities have. And we're, you know, we're not even touching on the fact that there's so many great communities that do this that like I'm jaded by the fact that I'm around in communities that don't do it. I'm like, oh, like, why are we doing this? This is so important for us to do. And and you're still gonna, and again, when you go back to the money part, ranks, you're still gonna make your money. You'll still keep the lights on, you're still gonna develop the kids. It just doesn't need to be a money grab. And it doesn't need to be, you know, 67 kids out there on the goal line doing five-line power skating drills for 40 bucks a pop in the summer. In the summer. I listen, when I was a kid, thank God my parents were able to get me into like the Howie Meeker hockey school and uh, you know, going to Potsdam, New York and living in a in a cell block for you know for a week. Like these kind of things were great, great experiences. But it wasn't 16 weeks of that.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

It was one week. Like, I mean, my God, I wish I I mean that was like a time where you like met kids and then you just never met them again, right? Because there were there was no social media, there was no Snapchat. Like now you get to build these relationships with people where you could go for a week of hockey school, come back, you could do your own training, you know. So so I always look at it as if you have a kid that wants to get better, they're gonna find ways to get better. The more we manufacture chances for them to get better, honestly, the more we're probably beating the sport out of them. Like the more you're you listen, your son gets up in the morning, he's sitting in the driveway, and he's like, Okay, I'm going. Hey, lad, I looked up, there's a clinic in Voorhees, and it's this is the Mitch Korn is teaching it, and I want to go, you know, then you're probably like, let's get in the car, let's go. But if it's like get your ass up, get out of bed, go shoot, or you're gonna fall behind, which I do all the time. But I I get off the phone, get off the phone.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

I love I love these moments of self-discovery for you.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

I'm like, damn it, I just did that. I just did that.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

So if there's Usually if my kids yelling at me, Mom, got up.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

I want to go. And again, I'm so like I feel for those parents that say, oh my God, I can't get this kid to stop playing. I'm like, that's great. That I mean, those are sweet. I mean, I think, but again, for the for most of us, the majority of people, kids are kids, they want to be kids. Let them they want to play hockey and they want to stick handle and shoot and pass and all good stuff. But you can also create these great environments in your community where you know nobody's really left behind, and your kids can have hockey play dates and they can have fun, they can develop and they can explore and they and they can find ways to um get better in a stress free, non judgmental environment. Really, the best way to learn at the end of the day. And again, I like Lee's point too. It doesn't have to be sport. Shut it down, go to go to go to you know guitar camp.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

I'll tell you one. I'll tell you one. This is gonna be funny and also understandable. I was the first ever camper in the sports broadcasting camp. Uh that started out of Philadelphia. It was called the Scholastic Play-by-Play sports broadcasting camp. I was the first ever camper in that camp, which is one national now. It's a massive camp. But I remember geek. I remember people telling me, you're going to broadcasting camp.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

I would have been the guy in high school saying, Look at this geek. Well, here's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

You're on a show with me now, Mike.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

I wish, I mean, based off of my performance on the show, I wish I would have gone to broadcasting camp.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

But I listen, I'm with you on that. Uh I'll tell you this though. The fact I'm sitting here with with an award-winning anchor who I look up to greatly, Christy, and you know I feel that way about you. And then you too, Mike. It's like like it all my point is those those worlds all combined later in my life. Uh, and I'm so thankful that that I I knew broadcasting was a part uh passion of mine early on in high school. Uh, but I I pursued it too, is my point. Like nobody said you can't do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

And I just worry about the kids whose parents are pushing so much hockey on them year-round that they're not gonna have that chance to go to that nerdy broadcasting camp, you know, and well, Christy, I think I think more important, like when we talk about like when a kid's old enough to make a decision, they're scared to ask. Like, like it's just like you know, maybe an eight-year-old is different, right? But when you're 15, 16 years old, and you're like, really, I really want to do this, but I can't because I'm gonna I'm gonna miss out on what my coach is telling me. If I don't go to this, yeah, I ain't playing.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

You know what? You're missing out on life, though, then, Mike. That's that's the other part of it, is those experiences. Like, look, it's the same we talk about with traveling, go to other countries, see other places, right? Which a lot of us can't do until we're a little bit older, to be fair. But when you start to do that, you see the world totally different. This is the same thing when you're a kid and going to different experiences. By the way, I probably should have led with I also went to like Star Trek conventions in the summertime. That's nerdy.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

All right, sports broadcasting camp wasn't maybe no, I was just a very similar thing. It was all summer long, and they had uh a program at a television station. I would go every Saturday and we would learn all about TV commercials, and I did the same thing. I think I was 15 when I did it. And that just opened a whole new world to me.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Oh, it was.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Um, and I'm so glad that I had that opportunity to do that, and I wasn't locked in, you know, some sports summer sports camp all summer because I never would have had that opportunity. I never would have seen the light as to uh a future career. So um, yeah, so I just advise to don't get caught into that hockey parent trap. It's really easy to fall into that. Um, try not to because you might be doing your kid a real disservice and limiting their opportunities for careers that could really um that light a fire in them, you know, it could be their passions.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

They'll save money too. And by the way, in another episode, maybe one day, Christy, we'll talk about your origin story into broadcasting because it's one of the greatest stories I've ever heard in my life. Uh, we'll tease the audience with that now. Uh Mike, I did want to go back to you here, too, because you you did bring up a great point about like alternative programming at rinks. Because you're right, these are businesses, they got to run. Spring hockey, summer hockey is kind of the easy cash grab because it's familiar. Uh, but if I'm not if I'm not mistaken, I've seen rinks do alternative sports either on the ice uh or around the rink in the summertime to keep the the money coming in to keep the kids coming back. But you know, I was just thinking like how cool would it be if there was like a weekly uh this is probably for more younger kids, but I think older kids would love it too, where it's a different sport on the ice every week throughout the summer. We're playing broomball, we're playing kickball, uh soccer on the ice, or you know, we gotta keep it safe, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

But yeah, my boy, my boy Lou Taco was doing uh lacrosse on ice, you know, full team lacrosse on ice, Pavel Barber, you know, out there doing uh tennis, you know, putting up two tennis nets and playing tennis on the ice with a tennis racket. I mean, these are these are great things that you or you do like what I did when I was 15, working for my cousin Rocco Ciro, you know, carrying blocks, you know, across the parking lot and and and picking them up and putting them down. You know, whatever, whatever is good, you're gonna find a way to advance your your your you know athleticism. And still, again, I I understand, like I run many rinks, and you've got to keep the lights on, but you can do other things in those rinks where it's say if you wanted to do some cross-training, you could still do, you know, traditional skating and power skating and and free play, and then do something in the gym or something in the parking lot. You have, you know, all of April through uh August to do tons of stuff outside. Most of these rinks probably have bigger parking lots than anywhere else that you could ever find, right? And they're safe. So you put out and you're playing, you know, the floor hockey and ball hockey and rollerblading and learning how to shuttle run and whatever it is. But but the the the whole idea is for a youth hockey organization is to build community, build alternate ways, and and then you know, even better at the younger levels, bringing in new hockey program where you could say, hey, every AU kid that's in our program, I want you to bring four friends that have never ever played hockey before. And if they're playing street hockey, which basically anybody can do, now you're now all of a sudden you go, wow, that kid's actually look at that kid. That kid's actually a good hockey player. Oh, did you know that when they're a public session, they're wheeling around, like they can skate too. They just never thought hockey was in there, you know, an option. So there's all ways to find and explore this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

You know what I always thought would have been cool in the summertime or even the springtime is a multi-sport league where you know all the scores kind of count, but you bring in different athletes. So you might be playing baseball and hockey and another sport, and the baseball players have to play hockey and the hockey players have to play baseball.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Well, that's and this and this goes right to the initial conversation, right? The hardest part of hockey. Like when you do a field sport and a and a and a court sport, basically, I think anybody can like that's when you hear these Yahoo professional NFL players saying, Oh, I could I could be a professional hockey player in three weeks. Yeah, let me tell you something now. You want to be you, I I I bet you I could turn a hockey player into another athlete infinitely quicker than you could ever turn a non-hockey player into a hockey player. The skating, it throws everything out the window. I don't care how fast you can run, I don't care how strong you are on your feet, I don't care how much you can lift, I don't care how hard you can hit a, you know, how long you could drive a golf ball, you throw skates on somebody, yeah, it changes everything. So, no, and I think this is where the impetus of the fear of spring and summer really roots itself because parents are like, oh my god, like the skating piece is exactly what's gonna hold my kid back.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

And then we inundate these kids with skating, skating, skating, skating, skating, and and and really you can you can read about any great hockey player through history from Wayne Gretzky to Mike Uruzioni, uh, to any of these guys that you know in North America they didn't skate in the spring or summer. Gretzky, adamant baseball player, adamant, like like love baseball. Um, yourzioni just didn't play, like he just didn't play.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

No, but I love the bios. The bios I love the most is when you hear somebody saying, Oh, and here's so-and-so, you know, drafted uh, you know, 15th overall, and and he could have and he and he actually was in the MLB draft at the same year, or he was in he played division one lacrosse, and he had to give up soccer because in college division one soccer wasn't available to play division one soccer and hockey at the same time. Like it's it's every athlete when you looked at up and down the NCAA rosters, every single one of those players can just easily be plunked into another sport. Right. Alec Alex Ovechkin is like a like a world-class tennis player.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

He's an Olympic level athlete.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Right. But so you any of these kids, and I'm not talking about the best in the world, I'm just talking about a run-in-the-mill high school player.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Like they're just good athletes.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

The expos might still be up there if if some of these football players ended up going on their draft team. The other thing, too, about this kind of multi-sport league idea is that from a development standpoint, and I'm not talking athletic, uh, it puts a hockey player, Mike, in a really interesting situation. What if you got an athlete out there that really can barely skate? Well, now as an athlete, you got to lift your teammate up. You got to figure it out. You're gonna find out real quick the kids who can't handle that. To the kids who are like, look, let me help you out. And then obviously, when you get out to the baseball or the pitch or whatever of the other sport, is look, I didn't transition well to some other sports. Baseball, I did great at. I'm horrible at soccer, like hilariously bad, right? But no one's ever taught me, you know, so or I never pursued it too. I just think that there's look, these are a lot of pipe dreams I'm talking about. I think there's a lot of opportunity out there to not just develop athletes, but develop these kids as people. And we don't take them um because we're we're it's it's way too business oriented. There is too much fear from an organizational standpoint, from a parent standpoint, probably from a kid's standpoint. Then we're sitting around wondering why they burn out at 17, right? Or or they or they get to college and they can't handle that they got a C minus on a test. Uh, we're not we're not doing the work now. Um, you know, from six years up. And that's that's not a by the way, it's not a judgment on any of you parents listening. I'm I'm just gonna go.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Well, you get you get you get you get churned into the wheel, right? You get churned into the like everybody's doing it. And I think this is the best time. I can I know I know for a fact uh we're trying to do it, my family is is say, okay, here's here's our here's our little break in the action. Now let's, you know, not not I don't I I hate using the word reset, but just look, let's look and how do we prepare? Like let's go backwards from September and how are we preparing? And what can we what can we do in the little different pieces here to say, okay, what needs to be improved on specifically? Like I I get nuts when I hear that somebody's going to see a private coach and the coach never asks them what they want to work on. It's the same as skate sharpening, right? Parents, here's one bit of advice. If you go to your local pro shop and you say, hey, can you sharpen my kids' skates? And they take them and go sharpen them, take the skates, run out of the shop as fast as possible, contact me, I'll put you in contact with somebody who knows how to sharpen skates. If they don't ask you, like, are you a forward? Are you a defenseman? What holl are you in? Are your skates profiled? You know, and they don't look at you.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Oh, you don't like when they just give everybody a half? You don't like that?

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Just give everybody a half inch. Oh no, I didn't give you a half inch. I, I, I, uh, don't worry about it. Your skates are sharp. Well, what the hell does that mean? So, same thing with a coach. If you're gonna go, if you get private lessons or you go to a clinic and and somebody and your coach is not specifically saying to you, hey, listen, you don't need to go play in this elite triple A showcase tournament. You need to work on your backward skating because you you're a really good defenseman, you're pivoting horribly, and it's gonna, it's gonna really manifest itself later on. Maybe not now, it's not gonna not gonna affect you, but here's specifically what I'm telling you you can work on. That's the coach you want to go to. You want to go to you want to go and use this spring summer time to start working on things. Now, to Lee's point, a lot of it might not even be on ice, right? It could be just going to see a uh a running coach. Like my son's skating improved a thousand percent, a thousand percent when he took up cross-country running.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Because his running manifested itself into skating. Fact. I mean, I'm just watching it going, okay, this was a simple, this was a simple fix. And the running's free, by the way. You could run anywhere, by the way. So you can run around the rink. If you're if you actually, if you're a rink and you want to charge some money, put down mile markers and say, you know, I'm only charging you $25 to run around the rink. But if if just just think about the ways to say, specifically, I want my kid to improve. Um, I'm a big slide board guy, right? So I'm like, okay, well, if you want to improve your power skating, you it's hard to improve strength. And and you know, again, if you're a parent, you understand the the the mechanics of striding, it's hard to improve strength on the ice, right? Because you're because the mechanics don't allow you to build muscle. No, there's there's no friction, yeah. So what do you do? You get on a slide board, you first build the muscle, and then you then you build in the technique, and now you put that kid on the ice. So if you do 12 weeks of slid board training, and all of a sudden you go on the ice, you're gonna go, holy crap, like I can't believe how much stronger I am. And now I look like I like and all that time, somebody's like, Oh, would you go to power skating class? No, haven't been on the ice in 12 weeks. But the strength is what gives you the skating, not it's not just the technique.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Like, you know, what's what's funny is is uh our Caitlyn, our producer, just texted me. She's reminded me of a little story. I remember, you know, Logan, my son, didn't do anything in the spring last year, and he went to a like a summer sports camp where they had him do a lot of different things. And I remember I remember we're getting close to kind of like the season, and I said, you know what, I'm gonna take him to public session just to get them on the ice. And I remember thinking, uh, even telling him, like, Logan, listen, when you get on the ice, you haven't been on the ice in a while. You know, just remember you might not. Man, he went out there and his skating had improved by not skating. Yeah, I was shocked. I was, I was recording like that.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

That does not surprise me at all.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

It was shocking to me, right? And I was like, and that's the I learned the lesson right there of like, man, we are we are this is all smoke and mirrors here. Like, like he just needed to play around. He strengthened his legs, obviously. The stride naturally came back within seconds. Um, and then the same thing with goalie. It's funny because you know, obviously, the goalie pads, especially at his age, they're heavier. It's a little bit of a different stride, it's a different mechanic. And when we have him skate out, even his coach is like, man, he's way better at skating. So, you know, a lot of the things that I think we're led to believe, I don't think anybody's saying like you have to do this to get better, but a lot of things we're led to believe um are really just simply not true. Like him not skating made him a better skater. Again, I'm talking about eight, nine years old right now. This this is, I think it changes mildly when you get older um in multiple ways. But you know, I'm glad Caitlin texted me that because I kind of forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, way better.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

We we had a goalie who was superb, he was also a little cross-goalie, and uh he could stop shots like nobody. Right. It was just amazing how the skills uh complemented each other.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

So the fear and the mental part, like okay, so so if you could get a kid in the soccer net or into the into the goal net or a kid that can be good at something else and and still, you know, and be a good teammate in other aspects, it's just you know, one of the things that's so underrated is the ability to leave um a group of people and go to a different group of people and kind of reinvent yourself and reinvent like your commitment. And even the kids are just having fun, like, oh, this is just something I do for fun. Like right, if you can go play tennis every day for fun with another kid, like that's pickleball. Pickleball, you know, pickleball. That's like the hottest thing in the world, right? So I took, but again, but just being just being in a in a place where you're where if you're a parent and you look at a skeletal system of a child and you go, okay, well, what is what is missing? Well, go find that sport to balance that child out. Your your pediatrician will love you, you know, certainly, you know, Dick Sportinger's gonna love you because you're gonna go out and buy a different pair of shoes, sneakers, and you're just gonna be in a situation where you're outside, you're in a different environment, different muscles. So mentally and physically, and then one thing we haven't talked about either, it's a really great time to say, okay, guys, let's sit back and see what were the negatives of this season. Reflect on taking the break, and where can I fill in the gaps? Was it was it did I never prepare uh prepare um you know meals appropriately? Did we maybe go on on way too much, you know, did I miss 16 days of school, which is, you know, now I'm on the the you know, I'm getting you know CPS calling me. You know, like uh your kids missing school again? Like, like where is where are those balancing acts that you can that you can you as a parent can make sure that you're prepared for as you go into the new season?

SPEAKER_02 39:22

And it's a good time to very good time to reassess and take a look back. Where did I fail? What did I do well? How can I do better? Right. Um, was there a good balance? You know, was there enough family time? You know, am I you know looking out for the other kids who aren't playing hockey? Um, you know, are are they missing out on life too? So well, I and I used to say that all the time, Chrissy.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

I'd be like, no, family time is not December. You want family time? Take in the spring. You know, you're my you're on my hockey team. Family time is is my my time is is winter, your family time. But again, it doesn't happen, right? So use to your point, figure it out and say, okay, wow, oh maybe maybe I did, maybe, maybe I did drag that sibling to every single weekend tournament in New Hampshire. Uh and then let's give them time. Let's go, let's go watch their, let's go watch their event, let's go cheer them on. Let's make it as exciting for them as it was for us for hockey, even if you hate it. Very good. I'm like, I hate it.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

I love that. Thank you for saying that. That is so important because I think parents uh they get and they're and they're so exhausted after the hockey season. It's like, I have no energy left.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Okay. And I think that's I think that's and I think that's where people are afraid to get into hockey, right? Is the way we're talking. Like they're like, if I go right down that route and my kid's actually good, I'm screwed. Like, oh my God, like I'm gonna get into that world. Like, so I think just softening the world of what it really is, it doesn't have to be, you know, what we all do. I mean, and we do it and it's crazy, but you could do it and uh in in there's a lot of opportunities to have hockey light, and it's just you have to choose that. But I think there's you know, this is a time where you can look and say, wow, I wonder why the lacrosse parents don't get this crazy, or how come baseball's not this? I mean, it's getting there. I mean, certainly at the levels, it's it's starting to become uh that. But I mean, more the there's the the the funny thing about hockey, right, is this there's so few, and again, I'm not I'm I know it's a broad topic, right? But it's and I I know and I realize there's a lot of communities that have community hockey, but most don't. Most are like like a couple of percentages of a bunch of kids from different communities. It's not like when you go into a community, everyone has soccer. Like every like this town soccer team is not losing kids to this town's soccer team. They just don't, like it's just not part of the fabric of the sport. Um, where in hockey, I mean, forget about towns, you're looking at states of kids leaving states to go to other teams. So it is a different animal, and I think we have to recognize that that you know, when you start moving states for your kids to play hockey, you're you're putting a lot of pressure into that into that small window of development. And you'd need a break. It's gonna pop. It's like the old, you know, if you don't, if you don't re alleviate the the the stress in there, something's gonna pop. And it and it could be your mental state, it could be, it could be your kids, uh, it could be the other coaches. Like, I hate this kid, I don't ever want to see him again. Like it's always sometimes it's always nice not to be seen, right? And not to be in that clinic again. And and and somebody has come back and say, Wow, little Johnny didn't do any of my programming, but look how good that look how much better.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

I was I was just gonna bring this up, Mike. And I it's actually what I want to I wanted to kind of end the show on is just some of these red flags from an organizational standpoint. Um, you know, if if I was in an organization, and as has not happened yet, where I was told if your kid does not show up to this pre-tryout skate, very little chance they're gonna make the team. I'm leaving that organization. Right. And and I can tell you right now, as a coach, the evaluation's the evaluation. And that's where I'm going to evaluate. All right. Uh, if I'm if I'm uh, you know, damn me, if I am a coach that is at a pre-evaluation evaluating already and giving kids a better chance because they spent the money to my pre-evaluation evaluation. I mean, like, if you if you hear that, parents, obviously you got to make the decision. But that is a red flag to me. Um, if first off, those are those are I don't want to call them cash grabs. I don't think that's fair. I think sometimes they do make sense in terms of how they're run, if they're run well, of just like, let's just meet the new kids. But uh, if you're ever told that you need to be at this event to have a chance, I think that's a massive red flag. Mike, I wanted to throw that to you too.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Well, I still think that's a whole other Mike's that's a whole nother episode. Yeah. Because it's it's it's because it because yes, but you it's the old buyer beware. It's it's be careful what you want to get into. It's if you're if you have to go to Jesus, it's like it's like what what are you doing as an organization if you can't just pick the kids that you picked? I agree. Develop the kids that are in your sphere and then say, okay, again, I am I'm anti-tryout, I'm anti-evaluation. Um anything below 15U is a crop. It's literally, I I know you could argue with me all you want. It's just not factual that you're if you're 90% of the organizations in North America that you have 17, 20 kids coming to your team trying out. Doesn't happen. Now, are the big organ the big clubs grabbing your kids? Yes, but I'll tell you right now, if you're running an organization, you're gonna do a much better job of retaining those kids if you say, I want to keep you, like I don't want to cut you. Like the minute you open the door to have a tryout, you're opening the door to say everyone now is on an even playing field. I don't believe that. If you're playing for me, you're already above.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Here's another guarantee, all right. And I've seen this so many times. They tell uh little Johnny or little Alice, you got to be at this pre-tryout if you want a chance of making the team. And then we do it, and you get to the tryout, and some hot shot that no one's ever seen comes in, and they're really good. That kid's the one making the team. All right, it's not Johnny or Alice.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Well, the other answer is like you like Lee, coach, you saw me play for 25 weeks. Right. You need to evaluate me on Wednesday night at 7 30.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

That's a great point. You know, you just saw me play all. weeks you know what i can do right so so i i just i wanted to make sure i threw that out there i know this is an episode about breaks but a lot of the ice time during these these breaks we're talking about happen because of oh well you need to be at this because if you're not at this yeah take the break and that's why i said at the beginning right we're a product of we're we're going down a vicious cycle because where we when i say the organizations we are creating the problem like we're creating anxiety we're creating and and and again when you're an organization that doesn't have a you you're somebody that runs an organization that doesn't have kids or you're a hockey director that doesn't have children or you're somebody who doesn't just you you don't like if you openly do this you just don't care about the health of the kids in your organization you can spin it any way you want if you had a kid on your team for 25 weeks this year and you need to bring in 10 other kids to see if your that kid is any good then you are not a good coach you're not a good evaluator.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

So if you're a parent I've watched an organization take nine nine kids from a 10 U team went and tried out for a triple A team close to home. All nine kids made it well why wouldn't you just say it to program your ass like it doesn't make sense to me like you you nine so nine of your kids from this crappy organization made it to the to the elite triple A team and you're leaving and then going to that team like that that is a team. And there's 12 kids on the team so what do you like don't you you and that happens let me tell you something it happens all the time I'm watching it right now in real time over and over and over parents if you're listening to this and you're driving the car and going to tryouts go and look and see how many kids from other organizations are out there on the ice trying out for your program and it's probably two probably two different helmets and you're telling me that over the last 25 weeks from last tryout well forget about more than that right 50 weeks from the last tryout in March that your coaching staff can't determine who should be on the team now then that's that's that's an that's an inefficient and unproductive coaching staff.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

And again and then and and take the break take the break take the break yeah get away from that most likely you're gonna come back and they're gonna go oh we need players anyway because the kids that all made the team they didn't stay here anyway because they weren't they were only coming here to see if they were good enough to play on the team and then they looked around said oh these kids stink I'm getting out of here.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

So I'll I'll also say this Mike that that when when in youth hockey and again look here's the deal with coaching in youth hockey there's multiple types of coaches uh and there's a huge gap between coaches who have kids and coaches who don't have kids because obviously it changes your perspective and um you know you could be anywhere on the the line with this but the idea is this if your goal your primary goal is winning at youth hockey and I'll I'll give a maybe a rare exception at the top programs but I even think they get this if that trumps your need as a coach to develop the players we're we're in trouble. All right first off the coaches who develop their players tend to win all right that's that's like one of the big paradoxes believe it or not but I've I've met coaches like well no we gotta win we we have to win I'm like I know you want to win I I understand that well we bring in money when we win have you tried have you tried the opposite I'm telling you that just by the audience size of the show we're all looking for programs that are going to put our kids' best interests development mentally physically academically hopefully I know we steer clear of that a lot in club hockey but um that's just my word is you got to check yourself as a coach of okay is my will to win trumping my will to develop um do I even enjoy the development aspect because if you don't you you got to rethink this whole thing and it's funny because the older I get and the more I coach the more it becomes less about winning and don't get me wrong everybody I am a competitor and I love to win and I hate to lose but but my drive is more and more towards let me help the kid let me develop the kid let me grow the kid and again it creates more winning like but I'll argue and I'll argue if you all you want to do is win what's that uh Caitlyn Q up win win win what's that that's a song I hear all I do is win win win yeah all I do is win win win I hear it all I hear it all the time so if all you want to do is win win win build a development model and keep the kids right if all you want to do is win build a model that has given you the key that that that you position your kids for 12 months a year say to it say to a parent I'm picking you at eight and I'm graduating graduating you with 14 that's my goal my in my only being because I'm a great coach I'm a great developer you're coming to me you coming to me because I'm the best then I'm gonna develop I my job is to develop you if I'm so good that I'm gonna be able to tell in April how good you're gonna be that's how good I am I'm so good that I'm gonna be able to project just like I say I am just like I say I can just like I say I can develop kids well if you're so good then you're gonna pick me in April of 2023 and you're going to graduate me in in uh March of 2028 whatever it is I'm not a math guy so just just be be that to me is the that's the step that's the that's the ask.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

I know I'm signing up for your tryout it's uh it's $325 if I didn't do it online. I realize if I did it online I save $25. I get it. But I'm just showing up and I'm trying out I'm signing a contract because you're not gonna let me leave the rink without signing a contract right they're gonna you know I'm gonna sit in the hallway and Christy daughter made a team but you do not there's zero chance you have a chance to you can't ask somebody else what they're doing no no you sign the contract or you've lost your spot run away run away because I I want you to value me I want you to pick my kid and I want you to graduate them if you if you now if you're just full of if you're BS which I'm gonna say you probably are then you're probably your job then is to pick my kid in April and then find a way to cut them next March. If that's the case if that's the history take a break go away find a program that wants your kid and wants to keep them and and and nurture them and develop them and if you're a good coach and you want to do this call me up I'll give you a 12 month plan it's easy I'm gonna pick my kids we're starting to see this more and more around the country by the way we're seeing like prep type environments for eight and nine and ten year olds that that that is saying you know we can develop you guaranteed until we can't then we're gonna cut you anyway like so like if you're gonna make the commitment make the full commitment say you know yes will you listen will you play as much is it equal no all that kind of stuff is just you if you're good enough you're good enough if you're not good enough if you're not gonna make the commitment to me it's hard for me to make the commitment to you but if you're making the commitment to me and I'm gonna make the commitment to you then my if I'm a professional if I say I can do it then believe it my job is to make sure you get you get better.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

And if you can't and if that coach is not saying and I love like Lee's analogy like like why why aren't why isn't a hockey program doing in a town say hey the hockey kids are ending on March 15th and then lacrosse season starts with all the same kids. Like every kid that was playing hockey now plays lacrosse or baseball or you know these multiple as a group as a community yeah and I just think it's so much we could do so much better. But at the end of the day you have to whether it's a fizz like a complete cutoff break and to do go do swimming or take a break as far as if you're going to replicate the every weekend tournament 60 game winter season and then just carry it over to spring and summer I my personal belief it's a mistake right you don't need to do it and you're gonna find there's no benefit in doing that.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Right. Oh if only we knew then what we know now right now looking back um you know thinking about all the times I signed my kids up and they were money grabs. They really were they were pure money grabs but you don't see them until after the clinic is over. So um you know parents what what Mike just shared with you is a huge golden nugget.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

Huge had that knowledge better all I do is tell people I know I know it's listen you say whatever you want and you could you could call me out I have a crystal ball. I have it I do no no you can laugh all you want I I have the crystal ball right now I'm not laughing because I'm laughing at all the experiences I had that just yeah that I wish that almost to a T watch your kid for 20 weeks write down something like where I think they're gonna what what's gonna happen with them put it in an envelope and slip it in your glove compartment and when you trade your car in in in seven years pull it out and say holy crap I can't like wow he was off by this and only and it's it has nothing to do with anything else but but but you're in the system it it's it's knowing and watching and frankly running those programs. Like I've ran I've run those programs. I mean I've run I've run tryouts with 175 kids trying out for four spots and I've taken I've taken that this $8500 revenue. I'm not saying I'm I'm I'm not saying that I haven't lived these experiences and I think when I was younger I would do it because I just thought everybody else was doing it. I'm like well if I don't do it the other team's gonna take those kids like I have to do it. And the fact is we all as parents can can say no no I demand better. I'm the customer I'm the consumer I demand better. It's the reason why a Shaw's can open up next door to a stopping shop and put them out of business. It's the same steak except I'm gonna give you a better experience over here. Yeah you buy this and I think that's to me that's shopping and maybe taking a break and sitting back and watching dominoes fall is sometimes maybe a better situation for your kid because I can tell you this no matter what happens your child's going to find a place to play in September. They're gonna yeah they're well not only if they want it just if you you're going to find a place to play that's within reason of what you think you need for your kid.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Right. Yeah, this was a good episode Mike I'm gonna start the first uh triple B team you know triple A team I'm gonna start the first triple B elite team and and let people figure out what that is. Are you on double B or triple B this year?

SPEAKER_01 55:59

No I it's a it's a great back to A B it's a great episode let's go back to just hey this is my team I'm a good coach I love it come play for me.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

I love it. Well that was what the spring and the summers were like for me as a kid but I think we're all in consensus here that you know taking a break is very important and each one of us listening you have to look at your situation but uh as Mike and Christy said you have to reflect on the season you got to maybe project about where you're heading uh talk about some of those fears and talk about some of those apprehensions that you're having in your home um and decide you know maybe we should take a break. I I think it's clear here that we need to take a break. We're gonna take a break um and that's one of the reasons I love this show. Mike Mike Mike bring in the heat today great stuff today both of you um I've got a long weekend of tryoff. Yeah right shows yeah he's smiling now if for those of you watching this not listening you can see Mike go from serious to happy throughout the episode which is great Mike we love happy but that's gonna that's gonna do it for this edition of our kids play hockey remember you can hear all of the episodes at our kidsplayhockey calm or your favorite podcast provider. Also if you're looking for end of season gifts or if you're looking for uh just something to buy for a player, a coach, anybody head over to our kidsplayhockey com. Uh we have a little bit of a team or player deal kind of section there that you can go with has all of our little uh things that you can get there. We got tired of saying this this product every week so they're all there, our kidsplayhockey calm. But uh for Christy Cash Anna Burns and Mike Binelli I'm Leah Lias. We'll see you next week as we get here to the spring on our kids play hockey have a great week everybody we hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening whether it's a podcast network a social media network or our website ourkidsplayhockey calm also make sure to check out our children's book When Hockey Stops at when hockey stops dot com it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life we're very proud of it but thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode