Putting Perspective Back Into Youth Hockey Culture with Former NHL Captain Bryce Salvador

SPEAKER_02 1:23

What's up, everybody? Welcome to a special edition of Our Kids Play Hockey this week. We're joined by Bryce Salvador, former captain of the New Jersey Devils. He had a very long NHL career. And he's sharing with us today a story about a perspective, something that happened with him and his youth hockey team, a 12U team, in which uh he had to make a really tough decision to pull out of a tournament at the last moment. And it came with a lot of controversy. And he's here to share with us the story of why he put the mental fitness of his kids first ahead of a championship. It's a really great discussion with a lot of different perspectives. And again, that is the purpose of the episode to discuss perspective and how we're treating youth athletes, how we're treating youth hockey, and how we can move forward together. So enjoy this special edition of Our Kids Play Hockey with Bryce Salvador. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world. Welcome to a special edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. We'll jump right into it. I'm Leah Lias, that's Christi Cassiano Burns and Mike Benelli. And we are joined today by the former captain of New Jersey Devils, had a great NHL career with the St. Louis Blues and the Devils. Bryce Salvador is here joining us today with a very special topic. And Bryce, we're going to jump right into it. You asked us to come on the show today to talk about uh an event that happened with uh youth hockey coaching that you were involved with this past weekend. So let's just jump right in with the story, tell us what happened, and we'll kind of dive into a conversation right afterwards. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Well, first off, thanks for for having me. And I I think it's important that you know we have these type of discussions and and especially with people that have platforms like what you guys are doing. And so, um, and so I think it's important from what I've now went through over this past weekend to you know, if you're in a position um of it, we'll say leadership or you're looked up to, um, you you do have a social responsibility, um, you know, to voice uh your opinion, right? Not saying that my opinion is always going to be the right one, but if if you're in this situation when you're going into rinks and and you've been doing it for years, and you see all the fighting that's going on between the parents, between the kids, you see the refs getting screamed at, um, the refs now quitting. There's not enough refs. Um, and and everyone just cringes uh every time they go to watch a youth hockey game. Um something needs to be said. Um, and that's kind of where I've come to. And what happened this past weekend, it was just, you know, it's it's probably one in a million in the perspective of we had two kids end up going to the hospital. Uh, they're 12 years old. Uh it's Halloween weekend. Um, the first kid is still in the hospital. This is uh when we're recording, this is Wednesday. So he went on the hospital on Saturday. He's gonna be released today. So these are not injuries that you know someone sprained their ankle or took a shot and their foot swelled up, or they, you know, sprained their wrist, or they maybe have a broken finger. Um, these are serious injuries that were traumatic experiences for 12-year-olds. So we had this first instant, this first uh injury that happened Saturday morning, right? And and the reason why I want to preface the time frame here because as I take everyone's opinion on my ultimate decision, a lot of it was well, you have teams that have traveled all this distance to come play. How can you not finish this game? Well, this is Saturday morning, right? We have a kid that ends up in the hospital. We we played two more games after this one kid that was in the hospital. So we did rally around an injury to continue playing. Um, so that needs, you know, I want to make that point where you know everyone's saying, well, it's hockey, it's sports. Absolutely, right? Injuries are a part of life, and and I know how to manage those moments, even with 12-year-olds. And so one kid's in the hospital, we play two games, right? In the second game, which is now Sunday morning, it's the semifinals, the minute left, we're up 4-1. And, you know, where this kind of all ties into this conversation, you know, parents' egos, coaches' egos. Um, now you're losing a game against a team that you really want to beat. And we have a kid take advantage of another kid in a vulnerable situation. And this kid is, you know, really hurt. Um, he's on the ice, he's not moving, it's one minute left in the game. It's now emotions are going. This is the second kid that you know that our team is now having to see go to the hospital. And and what's really important in this situation is the traumatic visual um effects that this also has on the kids. Anytime an ambulance comes to a rink, everyone's worst nightmares, right, are fresh in their minds thinking, oh my gosh, is this that moment? And and this so is is even more traumatic to a kid to see one of their teammates at 12 get taken off the ice and stretcher. So I I really want people to understand, like a 12-year-old kid doesn't know, does not know how to deal with that, doesn't know how to comportamentalize that in his brain. And um, and so now we've got our second kid. Our kids are losing their minds. You know, they're 12. They're going into locker rooms trying to fight, they're trying to, you know, what's going on here, and the ref don't know what to do. Uh, I'm sure the other team doesn't really know what to do at this point. Um, and then the parents are getting upset. And so at this moment, I'm like, okay, we've got two kids in the hospital. Uh, you know, what are we gonna do? You know, it's a championship game. This team came all the way. Our family also traveled. There's money, you know, it's not just one team came. And and immediately I just had to process that what I'm gonna have to do as an adult to get these kids in the right mindset to play another game. And so we can go into that maybe as this conversation goes on, some of the different elements, but I think to keep this moving along. Um, so I made the decision at that point that there's no way that it would be ethical to put these kids back on the ice. So, and I'm full, you know, and transparent and not being a hypocrite, I've said, like maybe three weeks ago, maybe a year, like I would probably too get caught up in the motion and say, you know what, maybe the kid's gonna be okay. This is a championship game. Uh, we got to play. Um, but you know, and I say I don't want to draw parallels to this emotional weekend, to what Kyle Beach is going through and all that. But I really all of a sudden felt this situation was Bryce, you've been coming into rinks for five, six years now. You're seeing the fighting, you're seeing where this is going. You know, if you're not going to make the right decision here, who is going to? And so that's in part why I said, okay, we can't play this game. It's not right. As I get into the lobby to kind of just talk this over with the other coach, with at that point the rink director, and then later the tournament director, the mindset in the lobby was like, are you kidding me? Like, you're not gonna play this game. You know, nobody was even asking about if how the kids were doing. They're like, okay, look, like how many kids you still got left? Yeah. What do you want? Excuse me? Like, what do you mean? Like, yeah, like physically, you want to go count how many kids we have left? So just to put them on the ice to play a game that absolutely meant and I'm cautious with this, meant nothing big picture in the moment. Yes, 12-year-olds want to play, they want to compete, they want to win that championship game. I 100% get that. But I also saw that when I'm looking across the room, it's all these parents and the coaching staff, and they the they really want this game more than anything. Right. So, so at that point, it's just we were having an irrational conversation with grown adults to saying, like, you're really gonna just pack up and leave. And yeah, I am. And after that, you've got parents screaming and fighting, uh, you know, screaming at kids, kids screaming at parents, and so I walk out of this rink and I'm like, you know, at that moment, like, I gotta say something, I gotta do something. Not that I think that anything's gonna change overnight, right? Um, but I need to start having a dialogue um with people and just say, hey, how can we change things? So that's kind of the events and how they unfolded. Um and and you know, and I'd love to kind of go into any, you know, dissect any parts of this because I know there's lots there. And um, so I'm I'm open to kind of, you know, hear what you guys want to talk about from these experiences.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

You know, that right go ahead, Chris.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

Yeah, I just I'll jump in here. I'm gonna stay in my lane as a hockey parent. And I'm gonna tell you, I am not shocked at all at the reaction that you got from those parents. Am I disappointed? Absolutely. Is it frustrating? Yes, this has been building up for years. Um, we've been in these situations too. And I wish we had a coach as brave of you, as rational as you, to have done the same thing. Um, because you know, here's the thing, it's a game. And what are you teaching your kids by saying, yeah, we're gonna keep playing? Let's not even think about the two kids in the hospital. Are you kidding me? I applaud you. Thank you. I wish we had more rational, sensible, compassionate, caring coaches like you in the hockey world because we need you.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Well, I really appreciate that. Thank you. Um and uh, you know, like I said, and I'm very cautious to not say that I am perfect, that I'm a perfect coach because I've been in those emotional moments, and and I honestly don't know if the Kyle Beach situation had come out, had I maybe acted as I did, right? Where I really just thought, hey, like we just can't keep doing this. And and if I cannot pave a path for other coaches to have the courage, um, nobody's going to because I'm not um I do understand the position that other teams are in, coaches are in, uh, families, the the resources, the energy, everything that we're doing to for our sons and daughters. Um and and I probably, if it wasn't me, I don't think some another coach would have been in the position to not have played that game. So I think as I look back, one of the takeaways I hope that comes from here is maybe I've created that safe space for for other coaches to say, you know what, this isn't right. Now, and I'm also saying that Chris, it it's not that, hey, if somebody gets injured, we don't play games. It's it's not that at all. We're not talking about a kid that sprained his ankle. We're talking about the severity of the visual impact that these kids had. So I want to also preface that.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Yeah, and I think, you know, just for context here, right, for the audience, for anybody listening to Bryce and understanding, you know, the level of play that these kids are at, this is the pinnacle of this age group, right? This is this is all the investment of all these people. So there's already a pre-judged, I guess, expectation, right? That parents are like, well, we're we're traveling from California, from Alaska, from Florida. We're we're all like meeting together to compete. And I think what Bryce was doing in this moment, which when I really look at as a coach at any level, right, forget about this this elite level of kid is the one and their kids, is that the emotions now that those kids have to try to process if they play. And you see this all the time. The emotion of the kids and the parents and the coach, this situation could get worse because then another kid's gonna get injured as bad or worse. Because now, I mean, Bryce used those terms, right? Of you know, the kids are out for blood, they want to go fight, they want, they want retribution. The parents have already gotten in the ear. Like, you need to you need to stand up for your teammate and show them that you're not gonna, you know, take it. And it just snowballs. It gets, you know, now imagine on a Sunday afternoon what a tournament director, and now two coaches have to deal with let's thank God that there's a there's there's two kids that are okay, they were injured, but think about the ramifications of continuing to play and where that could have escalated. And I think having this this perspective of saying, let's tone it down, let's all relax, let's get perspective of where we're at in the scheme of life here, and how can we still teach and have a teachable moment to Bryce's point? We're not we're not asking the kids to be soft, we're not asking them not to compete, we're not asking them not to battle through injury. This is this is bigger and more important than injury. It's really the fact that there's a person in power that has the ability to say, we can go one way or the other, and I can take the fact that my ego is not broken, that I didn't get to bring home a trophy. And and and I and hopefully we can teach these kids that you know there there are there are ways to de-escalate. And again, they're not getting paid. It's not a playoff game where somebody gets hurt, you know, in the NHL and Bryce is you know, coming from that level of play. I'm sure there's a lot of times you've seen players get carved off on a stretcher in your career, and you as an adult have to process that in the locker room as a professional hockey playing adult, and how hard that is to go out and play.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Well, Mike, you're exactly right. And then that and that's a perspective that I've lived through and I have. And that was what was also going through my mind when you have a traumatic injury, and you're exactly right. And in those milliseconds, I'm thinking, okay, what I'm gonna have to do to the mindsets of these kids to get them to play is not ethical. Right? Because there's only two ways. When you I've been on benches when people have been severely hurt, and when you're paid, you tell yourself it's a job. And you're also being like, you know what, they're gonna be fine. There's medical staff right down the hallway. They're getting there's an ambulance waiting on site, they've got surgeons, they've got plastic surgeons, they're gonna be getting the best care. They don't have to drive 30, 40 minutes to try to find a hospital that may or may not take them, right? So it's a different environment. And even, you know, at different levels of junior, they're better equipped for injury. So, so first off, so if you're professional like I was, it's a job. I'm gonna go there, I'm getting paid. And I have to tell myself that because if your mindset is scared or you're worried, you're gonna get hurt because you need to be aggressive. Um, and so for these kids to get them to play that next game, I'm gonna have to rally them now around two players. I'm gonna have to protect them and say, hey, you know what? You you better be ready to go take blood because you know, because I know if they're gonna be scared, they're gonna get hurt. So I have to immediately change, like I said, change their mindset to be in attack mode. And that isn't healthy for a 12-year-old. So then what a lot of people don't understand, won't take into account is that I'm actually thinking about the other team. Because God forbid, the first shift, one of their kids accidentally trips one of my kids, kids, and it looks bad, they are going to they're gonna lose their mind. That game will probably take three hours to finish.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Right. And and so you but one of your but one of your kids not not processing that, and dad's in his ear, right? You've got to go out and send a message that our team doesn't take this, and he rips the kid from behind on the first shift. And now you have forget if forget about what it does mentally for that kid. Because I listen, I've been on so many ice drinks and surfaces. Forget it, lacrosse, baseball. When when little children, the 12-year-old is little children, I don't care how you classify them and the scheme of selects and triple A's, right? They're children. Hit somebody from behind, injures somebody, throws a ball at somebody's head by mistake, they have trauma. The person inflicting, nobody goes out there trying to hit somebody from behind. I really truly believe that. I think you even said that in in one of your conversations, right? But I said, you don't, there's no, you don't think that there's 12-year-olds out there hunting kids down, trying to, you know, cross-ject them behind and break their leg. But when it happens, it's just as traumatic for the kid that injured the player. And now, and again, we don't think like I I even when I teach kids to protect themselves going into the boards, I'm like, you there's nothing you can do about the person's instability behind you. Like you need to prepare yourself. So I think you know, knowing that it's not only protecting your own team, protecting I think, and it sounds weird, right? Because everybody's like, oh, that's a bunch of crap. You're not protecting anybody else, the other team. But in your world, in with knowing what you would have to do at the NHL level, the next, the next period's a uh, you know, a line ball. Yeah, you're gonna be able to do that. And and and and and that's that's but I don't think people have to they have to be able to say that's not that's not hockey. That's not real hockey. That's hockey at some point. That's not 12-year-old hockey.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, it's not 12-year-old hockey, and I think that's critical. Like it's it's not like these kids we were playing for the national championship at Banco, right? Where, hey, okay, people want to win that championship. Um, this is it's a tournament. Yes, it's important for kids and everyone that came there, and uh, right, but look, we all got our guaranteed five games, right? It wasn't guaranteed that we're all gonna be in the finals. Um, and so this was gonna be the sixth game. Um, you know, maybe you know, I know from a tournament perspective, it it's tough on them to you know have an outcome like this, and so they're scrambling. Um, but but it's we have to keep going back to perspective, right? So at 12 years old, they're not being paid, right? They're young, they're developing. How do we create this environment for them? Right, because as they get into bantam, yeah, now there's hitting, right? And that's a whole different can of worms, but we need to make sure that kids feel confident and strong and safe going into bantam so that they want to stay in the game, right? Because at the end of the day, you know, we just see numbers dwindling in all different aspects of the of the youth sports, and whether it be coaches, whether it be you know, refs, you know, most importantly, refs, because um, you know, that they they've really had enough. And and um, and so you you're exactly right. And and I just want to, you know, really always keep circling back to the perspective of this particular moment. It's probably one in what a hundred thousand that that an ambulance comes. So it's not a uh something that happens all the time.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Look, this is what I'd like to do, Bryce, because we want to use this as an educational moment too. We we're always talking on this show, always, about how the game is more than just the game. Life lessons, uh, you know, the things you take from the game to grow as a human being are just as important as winning. Uh and this is something I want to say, even if it was the Banham National Championship, all right. Here's the deal. What you what you've done here is you've created a moment, uh, an inspirational moment that no one would have remembered who won this tournament 10 years from now, but every one of these kids is going to remember that you did this. All right. And as they get older, and hopefully the parents too, they'll start to understand more why. Uh we're also, and you've alluded to this multiple times, we're living in a time period now where mental fitness is starting to come to the forefront of a lot of conversations, whereas even 10 years ago, it didn't. I mean, that's it's one of the issues with how the Kyle Beach situation happened, is it was not top of mind and it was handled poorly for that reason. Um, now mental fitness is at the forefront of a lot of conversations. See with Simon Biles, we've seen it all over. And you had a moment of clairvoyancy where, and and and this is what I want to dissect so the audience can understand, and you've been doing this, let's look at the minute by minute here. You weren't just thinking about the players that were injured, you weren't just thinking about your own players, you weren't just thinking about the other team, you're thinking about all of it one piece at a time. And I think we should walk through that um to really educate um any coaches or players or parents listening of how you came to this point. Right. Because one of the things I loved in in your article with the athletic, you should all read that if you haven't had a chance, is you're talking about these are pubescent kids. You know, I could I at 12 years old, I couldn't control myself off the ice, much less on the ice. Right. And and that all played into your decision. So if you could, just for the listeners, let's let's really dissect the the moments of this decision, right? And and how you came to this point, the things that you thought about, um, you know, and and and how you eventually landed on this. We are not playing the game.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah, well, it really goes starts with you know the first injury. Um we had a kid go hard into the post. They'd always try to defend a goal from happening, hits the net, goes, you know, really hard. He the wind's knocked out of him. Kind of comes to, right? And the first moment he says, the first thing he says when he comes out, he's like, did they score? Right. And I'm just like, just the how sincere and the and the caring for the team over himself first is just priceless. And those are just the type of moments, right? And and and this kid was tough as nails. He finished the game, right? Then we find out that you know, there's it's it's more serious than we actually thought. And like I said, he's he's just getting out of the hospital today. So, right off the bat, you know, that was in this was the last game of the round, Rob. So just for everybody, you know, what a coach goes through now, we do what we all do. Okay, well, we have an injury, we're using this as a rally moment, right? So, you know, we we get this player's jersey, we hang it up in the locker room. Uh, you know, this is this is for him, you know, kids are touching the jersey, they're going out, you know. So I know how to make sure the kids are safe and how to kind of use moments as teaching moments and make sure make them feel that, hey, not to get scared about injuries, right? That things are going to be fine and we can play. And so, but also in the back of my mind, just understanding, like, hey, it's a fragile moment. These kids are crying, right, when they see injuries still. Um, and there's always the fear factor from the parents. So I'm managing all that. Um, we get through the game, and you know, and the kids play well, they play great, you know, that was one of those moments. Um, but but do we but I'm always very cognizant of the mental health of the kids. Like, you know, sometimes people just say, well, you just get them all. I'm like, no, you you just can't keep jacking up 12-year-olds to play a game emotionally and mentally and and rallying them up. Like they need to, they need moments to calm down. If you know, as you go up, like in the NHL, if we want to quit, like they don't play six games in two and a half days, right? But you mentally, energy emotionally, you can't you can't stay that high in the moment that long. It's not healthy.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

So and and every and every day, and doing that, and doing that multiple weekends in a row. I mean, they're doing you know, it's not like it's one tournament a month.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Yeah, so so just alone, when you think about it from that perspective, how amazing our youth are that they are able to to well, maybe some people say maybe it they're not playing at their highest level, but are able to play multiple games over multiple days and be effective and and and and just be amazing at times. Um, but we also have to know that, okay, they also need to come down. So, you know, so Lee, so that first moment that's already in the back of my mind. Okay, so they played well, everyone responded well. So now we're going into the into the semifinal games. Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

So do I do want to note just from what you said, again, just kind of walking the audience to this, that the mental health again was there from the start, right? So you're already managing that, you're already considering that. That you know, the question I have for our viewers and listeners is you know, how often do you do that in and and how do you compartmentalize it? Is it just about winning or is that? So we already have a a milestone here of mental health being in the picture. All right. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yeah, well, and I think what's fair um to say is maybe I should say, like, I just all of a sudden it just wasn't there. Um, and if I'm if I really go back several years, like when I really got involved in youth hockey, is now that I've learned so much by making mistakes, right, to where I am now, that's you know, in part of probably a lot of why I was able to really process the emotion and the situation that these kids are in. Right. Um, you know, because look, you know, I always had the mindset of, you know, trying to have you know a very strong team, which we do, so that the environment of these kids to that are practicing, I'm all about practicing, not so much about games, but practicing. So if you have, you know, kids that are of in part like pretty much all the same skill set, you can have a lot more development. And what ended up happening through that is the team became really strong. I had lots of players that wanted to come play on my team. You know, once everyone, because at first people didn't think I could coach, and then you know, they were scrutinizing me that I couldn't coach, which I tell everybody you're exactly right. I didn't know how to coach, you know, six-year-olds and seven-year-olds. I learned quickly. Um, but what ended up happening as I started to get, you know, really good players all wanting to come to the team, is you know, you started to see the anxiety and the mental exhaustion from kids of always having to be their best. So over the last several years, you know, my team's been very strong. Um, every team wants is using, you know, my team as the gold standard. So every time we were playing, these kids are playing their Stanley Cup game. So I started to understand, like, Bryce, okay, like, geez, when you're in the NHL, like when you played an emotional game, like you're exhausted mentally. And then I started realizing, like, geez, this these kids just played a team that was lights out, like, and I was like, and then, and then the next day I was like, why aren't you why aren't you stating hard? Why aren't you this? And I started realizing, like, holy cow, Bryce, they just played a Stanley Cup game, right? I was really trying to equate it. And and people may laugh at that and may say, I'm losing my mind. But no, I started to realize, which on one side I thought was great from a development perspective. So, and what I mean by that is I started seeing that every team that we played, it became a real great game, a great development game. We were kids on the other side were elevating their game. Goalies were playing best. You know, the coaching staff on the other team, they were making sure they were prepared because they knew if they're gonna play, you know, the team that I coached that, hey, we got to be good, we got to make sure everybody's focused. And so it was a really good game from the development, from the development perspective, from that element, right? Like, um, you know, maybe some people have different opinions on that, but I really saw, wow, this is great learning environment. Um, but then I started to see, wow, like this is taking a toll on my kids, right? They're 10, or they're they're eight, they're nine, they're 10, they're 11. Like every time we go in the rink, like we're getting every team's best. So so I know that's long-windedly, but that's kind of I started to understand the emotional mental health of the families, right? And so I started like reducing practices. So, like, you know, if we had a a real big tournament, you know, we went to the finals, we didn't practice that week when we got back. I gave that week off to the families. People think I'm losing my mind, right? At first, well, we mean I'm practice. We're not practicing what like, no, actually, because you know, I know how I went if I went through a round of playoffs. I needed to shut down for a couple days. So, so I started doing that, and I started to see that when we got back to practice the next weekend, kids were in such a better mental place versus just getting run down, run down, run down. So, so again, that's kind of how I came to this over five years. I I didn't really know this. I was making wrong decisions, I was going to tournaments. I was being like the you know, the team we played, like we need to win this game because you know it's gonna affect the rankings, or we need to get tournaments or whatever, recruiting, all that type of stuff, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:12

You should just call me earlier. You should have called me earlier.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Yeah. Well, you know, Mike for a while.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

Um I didn't, you know, I but good for you guys too, recognizing their kids because so many times, and I've seen this over the years with my own kids, especially if it's a high-performing team, the expectations are so high. And the coach sometimes loses sight that they're still children and they needed to be treated like children, not as you know, NHL stars who need to show up and be on time and let them be kids. It's good for you to do that.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

Christy, I think I think it's it's a great, it's a great way to view it too, because at the at the highest levels, let's let's call it college major junior pro. They they gear it up. It's geared up Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, and then they and then they're done. Now Friday night, Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon, Saturday night, Sunday morning, and then back to practice on Monday because we have another competition. So it's huge for these kids to be able to, I mean, mentally and physically, but that physical fatigue adds to the mental fatigue, and this adds, and then what do we what do you do with Bryce, right? As a coach, now Monday's practice, they stink, you get frustrated, you're screaming and yelling at them because they're not making passes and they're not paying attention. But who who how could they? I mean, they they just played three Stanley Cup games in a row. And I think that's where, you know, I was a coach, like you love playing the team that had to play that high game, right? Because you know, like, wow, now we got them on the we got them on the game where they they they won. It was such an emotional win. We might get them now because they're emotionally drained. Now imagine doing that for 23 weeks in a row. And I think that's where the perspective comes from not only somebody that's played at the pro level, but somebody that is is is watching their children, your child and other kids, other people's children, and saying, I feel exhausted. Like, what do you feel like? And I think if you really asked a lot of mom and dads, they're exhausted, but they just don't know, they don't have the capacity to sit in that hallway after that game and say, Bryce, my kid is mentally exhausted. I'm leaving the game.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

Right, right. Especially if they get a taste of winning and succeeding. And you know, it's hard to step back from that, you know. It's like an addiction. Oh, well, we got to keep working them hard, we got to keep giving up, we got to do this, we got to do this. Look at us, look at us, look how great we're just and it's hard to step back and say, whoa, time out. I want to remind everybody too. There are kids.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Yeah, I want to remind everybody too. 18 down, you're dealing with a lot more than just hockey. All right. A lot of these kids might be playing multiple sports, so they're getting this from multiple angles. Bryce, you're talking about 12-year-olds. Look at 12, I had a lot on my mind. Okay. A lot of new thoughts coming to my mind that had never been there before. There's a lot going on. And you know, one of the things that, and Bryce, I want to jump back to you on this is that I hear this a lot from parents. Well, I did it that way and I turned out fine. And you know what? You're not fine. You just don't realize it. Yeah, like like it's one of those things of and and Bryce, look, this is one of the things I love is that uh, you know, you made yourself vulnerable there. Like, look, I didn't know what I was doing when I started. I had to learn. We don't say things like that enough, right? We don't say things like that. Oh no, I turned out fine, but you're not. You're not. You didn't put your mental fitness anywhere on the charts. I'm not gonna even say first. And the thing is that we get so focused on winning and the grind that then we get into the real world after 18. Again, uh, you know, Bryce, obviously you went to the NHL, you know, you walked into the civilian world and we we can't work with each other, and it's always about the bottom line, it's always about winning. We don't take time to even care about each other, right? So, again, I'm not trying to expand this into something bigger or a bigger conversation. I'm just trying to say you took a moment of pause and reflection, you used your experience and said, okay, you know what, we're not fine. All right. So let's let again, everything you're saying is great. This is I love that we're dissecting this, like almost documenting it, right? Let's go to the moment now. Again, the second injury happens. You I want to reiterate, you said these kids are not controlling themselves, they're out for blood. They're not, they're they're mentally compromised, right? You probably are mentally compromised, the parents are mentally compromised. So walk us to the moment of that decision of was it was it a gradual kind of coming to of like, you know what, I don't think we should, okay, I've decided this, or was there a snap moment where you said we're not playing this game? And then I do want to dive into the reaction, not to call anybody out, but I think that's an important part of the story.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Well, yeah, well, look, uh, the the moment was, you know, I'm holding you know this kid's hand, right? The mom comes on the ice, you know, they're crying, and you you don't know, you're like all the worst possible thoughts are going through your mind.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Right. And then you're kind of like, if I'm being emotionally impacted in this, I can't imagine. And if you talk to my wife, she's like, I show no emotion, right? So so if I can get emotional about a situation, um, you know, I can only imagine what everybody else is going through. You know, yes, it's it's isolated to our team, right? Other the other teams are like, hey, yeah, injuries happen. Okay, I I I appreciate that and understand that, but it's my responsibility to protect my team. And so at that moment, then I was just like, there's no way I'm gonna, there's no way I'm going to try to downplay this with my players, right? Right. Because that just that's not the right thing to do, you know. Then I later find out. So I said, um, this game's got to be called off, you know, forfeit it, however, we're gonna do it. Um, and then I just, you know, as I'm walking to the lobby, you know, my kids are going crazy, they're you know, they're circling dressing rooms, right? You're just like, holy cow, I gotta, you know, I got some Philly kids on this team, right? These guys are tough, right? So I gotta, you know, bring everybody down. I know you live in in Philly, yeah. I'll take the guy in the and you know, and look, yeah, like I said, I'm not trying to be a hypocrite. Like, hey, I, you know, I'm not saying I never, you know, went after somebody. Uh, you know, I like to fight, you know, I I have a switch, right? I I know how intense and how aggressive you need to be in hockey and how to have success and all that. So I understand there's that aspect, but 12, there's no hitting, right? These these kids haven't hit puberty, right? So, so it's a different animal from that perspective. So, now as I get into the lobby, you're asking, you know, it just the mindset, which is a product of the last 10 years of youth hockey or whatever, I don't know, whatever you want to say, is you know, we're all built around we got to win this championship game. Absolutely, you know, and and and maybe well, I know for a fact because you know my team has won championships, right? That you know, and I hate to say this because, but I'm gonna be truthful, like it didn't mean much to us at that moment because we've had, right? So this is why I do understand part of the perspective of the other team and the other coach, right? They wanted to come and they wanted to win this, they wanted to, you know, beat my team. I hate using the word my team. They're not, you know, like it's like I possess it, like our team. Um, and so I I totally understand that, right? But it's when you're talking to somebody for five, 10 minutes and and you and you really can't get through to them that like the game is gonna happen, where you have to start saying, hey, like what if it what if it was your kid on the stretcher? Right. And then when you start talking like that, you start to see a little bit of thinking going on, but they're still not getting there. It's like you're still gonna leave. Yeah, yeah, we're we're concerned about the kid, but you're still gonna leave. Right. So, so at that point, I just realized like, you know, if I cannot really stand up and almost not get bullied into playing this game, um, then no coach will ever be able to. Right. Right. And and and and it's not to the you said leave, not to single out the coach or the parents and all that. It's um because I totally appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Yeah, yeah, we're we're not trying to call anybody out. And I don't think you are either.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

So I just I just and I don't think I don't think the emotion of the other team is the same. It's your it's your family, it's your kids. You're with them every day, right? And you're and you're in the locker room and feeling the the the the you know that that bubbling up. Like you could you're closest to it. I wouldn't expect the other team or the other coach, the other parents. They they weren't even in the room. I mean, they were in a different rink, probably playing in a different game. They didn't they didn't they didn't they didn't experience the trauma. You watch on Live Barn, you don't experience the trauma. You're like, oh wow, that can be a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

What bothers me, guys? What bothers me about this, and Bryce, you said it earlier and you wrote this in the article, is that the first question was not how is the kid doing? Yeah, that freaks me out. All right. And again, I might be just in the might level, you know, I've coached at different levels, but when someone gets injured, I I generally care. Like, is that person okay? And I and I know a lot of coaches, by the way, and parents do do that. All right, I'm not saying this is isolated, but that freaked me out a little bit that you know that was not done. Can you can you talk to that for a minute? Yeah, not again, not I'm not trying to put the other coach on the spot. I really want to keep saying that, but it that that bothered me a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Yeah, and you know, and look, it's uh what I honestly thought was gonna happen was gonna say, like, was that hey, like, hey, we've heard you had some injuries. Um, you know, how's it going? How how are your players? Like, is do you think that this game is gonna happen? We're hearing that you're not playing, you know, hey, it's October 31st, you know, my team really wants to play you guys. You know, we're gonna see this team again. Like it's you know, there's months, right? There's more tournaments. Um, so it was the the lack of perspective in that moment to understand, like, we're gonna probably see each other three, four more times this year, right? And and I can't, and that individual wasn't able to just take a pause and just reflect on it, right? And so, you know, it could have been very easy for me to say that, you know, to talk to not include the coach, right, in you know, the tweets and stuff like that. But the reason why I did that, and but I didn't call him by his name or anything, but was for every other coach out there, right, that say, hey, wow, what if I was the coach that Bryce was talking about? You know, how would I have handled that situation? And and I guarantee that 99, maybe we'll say 100% of us, and I include myself in this conversation before me really feeling I have a you know a social responsibility, would have probably acted maybe somewhat the same as this this gentleman. You know, maybe half of us, whatever that percentage, may have asked about the kids first, but the ultimate goal would have been for that game to happen. So I'm not naive to that fact, right? So what transpired was against the norm. And so this did catch this coach off guard, right? And that's why, you know, people who are like, well, Bright's like, I thought you were gonna snap on this guy, right? Like, you know, yeah, I know how to snap. Like, you know, you I, you know, if I gotta, you know, drop the gloves, I know how to drop the gloves. Um, but I'm also very sensitive and respectful for everybody's perspective, right? I got in there, I could clearly see that this guy wasn't being irrational, not saying that he, I said, like he looked very articulated, very astute. Like, you know, I can't imagine the pressure that he was under for this game to happen. Um, but but I did need to include him in this, right? Because so that every other coach can maybe feel like, wow, like, you know, and and and if anything, maybe what what I hope that comes out is at the end of the day, Lee, what hope I come comes out of this, Mike and Chrissy, is that when we're in these moments, can hopefully people might just have the ability now to just take a deep breath, yeah, have perspective, realize, you know, based on their situation or circumstance, in this case, we're talking 12-year-old kids. Again, we're not talking about junior kids or college kids. These they don't have a career in hockey yet, that we could just kind of reflect back and realize, you know, there'll be more hockey tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

And I think that's what I hope is gonna come out of this. And I'm already starting to see that. I've received phone calls, text messages, you know, from people all the way from owners of youth hockey, all the way from people at the NHL, former NHL coaches of mine, you know, former teammates, youth hockey um executives. So so that tells me that um, you know, people do want to find ways to provide more perspective to everybody.

SPEAKER_04 44:27

Oh, good. I'm glad they're not hating on you, and you're getting you're getting some message.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

But he's getting some pretty good hate. He's gonna be a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

I want names right now.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Well, look, Christy, the way I look at it is most I and I and I genuinely am, you know, sincerely saying this is I respect everybody's comments. Like I I and and it doesn't get under my skin. I I've been in arenas where 20,000 people are telling me how horse crap I am, you know, when you go into visitors' rings. Like I'm I've been trained for, I play professional hockey, you know, since I've been six, sixteen. Sorry, sixteen when I was in junior. I but I understand how to rinse and repeat, you know, the process. Right, having people criticize you, have people have different opinions. But I'm a I was, you know, I went through that process, right? I could deal with 15,000 people telling me that you know my opinion's wrong. Um, but I've also learned over time is that a lot of those people's opinions probably are not like the four of us on this call, they don't have a son or daughter that's in hockey, right? Right, they're looking at it from you know a society perspective, right? Like, how can Salvador deprive these kids of playing this championship game? They don't have full context or perspective of the youth environment. Um, you know, uh maybe there are some coaches that think, geez, I can't believe Salvador did this. But perfect, right? Like, I don't expect everybody to agree with my decision, right? I just I just welcome the opportunity that we're all talking about it because at the end of the day, somebody has to start saying something.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Right. And and if anything, like I said, I've even had we had some games that we had coming up, and the coaches of those teams, they're like, which I've already seen change. They're like, hey, like, how's your team doing, Bryce? Yeah, let's let's reschedule these games that you have coming up this weekend, right? Let's do them a few weeks later, right? You know, so that alone shows me that there's been progress because I could tell you in the past, if we're if we're scheduled to play a team, there's no way that team's canceling that game. You know, they've got that date circled on their calendar and they want to play us, right? Which is great. Like I love those games. I love going into those environments. I love the competition, I love the teaching moments, right? Um, so so just even to have a you know a team already say, hey, like it's not right to play this game right now. It's early in the season, you know, we could put this game on the schedule a month later, right? Is was really encouraging to already see that versus trying to find a way to have the other team see our perspective and go jump through hoops and um and and so you know it's it's it's encouraging the response that I've seen so far.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

And it should always be kids first, always should be kids first. Uh shouldn't be a trophy before kids. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

I used to, I used to laugh, I used to, I used to, you know, laugh at I still do when when you see like a team down, like, oh, they're missing their starting goalie and their best defenseman, like, oh, let's play them now. Like this is the time we can beat them. Like, no, don't you want to beat them when they're fully ready? Like, like I want to beat the team that like it's not like you know, like you said, it's not, you know, in the NHL level, okay, if if the devils lose their three best players and you can get them on the next day in a playoff game, yeah, great, let's play them, let's get them under down. But at a youth hockey event that you have the opportunity to play the you know the best versus the best. I mean, that's what we should strive for, right? And we should strive for the the fact that, and I and I I do think I think you're such a high profile person in this situation with a whole high profile team, and and let's let's face it, a high profile tournament, you know, when it when the in the scheme of things. I I do think this happens a lot. I think there are uh I think there are enough coaches out there at the at sports level that see these kinds of this is not a like and I've read the comments on Twitter and some of the, you know, this is not a you know a boo-boo. This is not like a kid that got, you know, got hit with a shot, and then you're like, oh, he can't play. He's he's really just you know, doesn't want to get in the game, and my kids are traumatized. This is a major, major event. And I think it, and and again, it can it could happen, you know. I'm cringing, you know, I'm thinking about all the tournament directors that are cringing right now, saying, oh my God, kid, you know, guys are gonna be getting out of games for for a lot less than this. And but I think in the whole, in the in the whole realm of what we're thinking about, I think one of the big keys here is you know your kids, your children, and your families. That's all you're responsible for. And I think being responsible for the other team is, you know, obviously knowable, and that's great. And thinking about, okay, what's this gonna affect when we stick when we go on the ice against these guys? But the but you the the what's the great thing about coaching is that you should know your kids. You should know their their mental health, you should know when and when and how to push their buttons. And I'm sure there's a way for you that you could have got in there and be like, oh boys, okay, this is our chance. We're gonna do one for Johnny and and we're gonna go out there and crush these guys. But I, you know, I don't, I don't, there's, there's a, there's, there's a time and a place for that. It maybe if it's a different situation, if it's a misconduct, like where a kid is, you know, says something to one of your players or mouths off, it's a whole different situation. It's a different way to motivate kids. And I and I I do believe that too. You have to have you have to have grit, you have to have passion, you have to have an edge to play at that level, at the highest level. I don't think anybody's saying, and I hope nobody's saying, and and misrepresenting that this is taking an edge away from kids. It's I think it's it's just it's teaching it's just a way to teach them how to control that edge and where that edge is.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Yeah, where that edge is, where there's a fine line. Um, and I and look, which a lot of people forget through all this is we already have one kid in the hospital before this incident. We are already playing down. So it's not like, and we just beat a team that's a top five team, you know, based off we're going off rankings, right? So so it's not like we're trying to avoid playing the game or we're, you know, we already have a kid, we're already down numbers, right? And and I already know, like you said, yes, I know how to how to get kids, you know, to be prepared to play. We did that, right? As I went through, you know, not to bring up what we said earlier, but you know, we brought the kids, you know, the kids' jersey into the locker room, you know, we made it a special moment, right? That's all part of the learning process. Those are moments kids need to understand, right? Because it's gonna be all the way through all the locker rooms as they get older, right? How do you rally around a situation, right? But perspective when an ambulance shows up and a stretcher comes on the ice, and the kids are 12 and you already have one kid in the hospital, you you have to be the adult in the room um to say, hey, this is something different, right? And and that what happened to our team, and maybe it happens all the time. I don't know, but I I don't think two two kids go to the hospital in a matter of 24 hours, and ambulances are showing up all the time, right? It happens, but it's not happening all the time. Um, and so you know, so maybe if anything, tournaments maybe definitely have a backup plan, maybe, you know, like you know, it's in hindsight, maybe there's a way we could have got the team that we just played to play the final game, right?

SPEAKER_03 52:01

Yeah, right. Like you'll that's what I thought at first. I'm like, why isn't you just the other team play?

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Yeah, right. But but but the problem with that, Mike, was it was so chaotic, right? So it was so chaotic in the in the locker rooms and in the lobbies that nobody had any rational thought process to say, oh, okay, there's still some teams here. Maybe this other team wants to play. Like if it's genuinely about playing the game, right, right, and putting these kids to have a championship game, right? Well, there's maybe there's another team that could have filled in, right? And and we can, you know, all you know, not be maybe having this conversation. But look, things happen for a reason, and um, you know, and it not saying that you know, I wanted to be, you know, in this situation, but now that I'm in it, um, and now that I see the you know the response, it just, you know, I'm you know, as bad as it may sound, I'm happy it did happen to us because I really now see that I don't think that there would have been probably another coach had he not been, you know, a former, you know, NHL player, some of the former captain, had the you know, been with the team for for a while, you know, had a strong team that's been in that position for many years to say, you know what, this isn't this isn't gonna happen.

unknown 53:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

So so when all when you all those things come together, um it seemed like it was kind of a situation that was, you know, meant to be.

SPEAKER_04 53:29

Right. It's so easy to lose perspective. A couple of questions for you. Uh my heart, first of all, goes out to those parents because you know, I've been in those situations where my kid has, you know, gone to the hospital and it's just it's horrible. So my hearts go out to them. I hope the two players are okay. Are they yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

So so look the they'll probably, you know, I don't want to really discuss, but they're gonna be out for some time.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

Okay, good. Because I just my first thing. I'm just worried about those kids. It's like can't stop thinking about them. Um and also, so how so when you go forward now with the rest of the teammates, you really have to explain to them, um, or maybe you don't, and they probably get it right, why it was important to rally around their teammates. Um, was were any of the kids just not getting it, or were they did they have a good perspective?

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Well, well, I I was pleasantly surprised to be, you know, uh that every parent on my team no one even questioned it. It was it was actually assumed. And and again, I say like that's how much you know, even my team's changed over the last couple of years because we would have been the other team wanting to play that game, right? So, so we, you know, we have different perspective as as a team, um, you know, but we've made mistakes in the past. So I'm not how we say that. We've made our mistakes. I made my mistakes as a 12 as a coaching youth hockey. Um, but the only thing, you know, it's a funny story. Like the only the only kid that was kind of still amped up to play, I tell everybody, was was the goalie, right? Because he's like, you know, he can't get out of the mind out of the out of the mem the mental preparation. He was like, you know, still jacked. He's like, is this game happening, coach? Is this game happening? And um, then finally, you know, when he found out it wasn't happening, you just see him like his shoulders just like oh like more relief. Yeah, it's a goalie, right? That's you know, there's that's what makes them different, right? There's yeah, you know, and so uh, but both you can everyone says, Yeah, I yes, I absolutely could have had had that team back on the ice, and and the good and the bad of part of kind of who I am, none of my families would have would have stood up and disagreed, even though I now all of them are like thanking me for not playing that because they didn't want, you know.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

Yeah, they're relieved, they're relieved. You took you you took that. I mean, think about the pressure having it go to you. Like, I could just imagine it right now, right? I'm like, Bryce, listen, my son's in the car. Uh, my wife is like, there's no way he can play this game. And a lot of coaches be like, Well, how is he ever gonna get through adversity? How is he ever gonna get how's he gonna fight? How's he gonna learn that, you know? Well, that's it. And I think just just the ability to, you know, that is hard. It's hard for the because you you have a bunch of parents that are all looking around. It's almost like the old, you know, when you get your manager saying, all the parents are saying this. Well, who's saying it? Nobody's saying it, right? So it's the same thing. It's like, listen, we don't want, we, we thank you, thank you for not allowing us to play. Because now it's on you, right? There nobody's tweeting about your parents. Yeah, they're they're on you. And I think, but that's you know, hey, listen, that's the responsibility too of the position you're in.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Exactly, right? And that's what I've also learned over the years is you know, how much you know the parents need the coach, you know, to make the right decisions. Um and and how much power the coach does have. Right. Right. And and and you know, it doesn't matter how many times I tell my parents, hey, like you can, you know, and I know I don't I don't follow the the 24-hour rule of my team. I'm like, hey, if you need to talk, talk to me. Like, you know, I don't want these these issues festering, right? And um sometimes, you know, I cringe, you know, when because I I have that policy, but I've also saw that um, you know, it's a little bit different, obviously, in our environment that you can put out some fires that way. But even families that I've been with for years still find it uncomfortable to really want to have an opinion or voice an opinion, especially something like this where you know you're making decisions for you know a rink, a tournament, right? The team that you're supposed to play, your team, everything it's a it's a it's a big decision. It's a you know, so I'm not diminishing that, right? And you said earlier, Mike, just like all the tournaments, and they're like, holy cow, like what's Bryce doing here? And right, but but at the same token, you know, when you talk to these tournament directors or you talk to different guys, they're like, Oh, we can't get any refs. Right, or we can't get any refs all the you know, you hear that all the parents are going crazy, right? Like you don't, you know, in this, you know, and and look, and even in this particular tournament, you know, and I haven't even mentioned this part of it, was uh uh I don't know if it was Friday the week before we we have a a close contact, COVID contact go through our team. We find this out, right? Uh I think it was Wednesday. So we might not have been able to go to that tournament. Because, right, like we so we scramble, we cancel practice the whole week. We're scrambling to get everybody COVID, like with COVID tests, just so that we don't go up there and bring COVID, right? Right. So we didn't know if we were gonna make it to there. I'm talking with the tournament director, he's stressed out, we're all stressed out because of I know that a lot of those teams are coming there, they they want to play the team, all right. And so, like we're like even just to get there, right, was a whole drama in itself. You know, everyone gets COVID tested, all the fans get COVID tested, everybody's negative. Like, thank, you know, thank the Lord on that one, right? So we were even get to even to get up there, you know, it was a just a nightmare for our team. And then, you know, and then all these other events. And so, like I said, it's you know, there's a lot going on with with everybody's team. Um, and so again, you know, I just keep going back to the perspective. There's no way I'm not saying, hey, we've got to change culture and everything overnight, and all saying the system's completely broken. Look, it's it's just these particular moments, understand your environment, the kids, the ages, who you're who you are mentoring, and just make sure that you're you're making appropriate decisions for them. Um, and and by no means am I saying, hey, we got to cancel games because kids are injured, right? Hey, if ambulances are showing up, right, and you're dealing with a pre-puberty team, so probably 13 and under, then I hope some people will really maybe weigh the situation, right? Right. But hey, if you're a junior and you're older and you know, those situations happen, kids, you know, they're fully, they're more mature, they can handle those situations, they can handle the emotions, they can realize, hey, like just because I'm upset, I'm not gonna go try to kill this kid.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

Yeah, but Bryce, it's not the game, the game's not the next day and the next week, it's the next hour. Oh, yeah, you know, it's not again. If it's the next day like you did on Saturday, you had an injury. Okay, we get it. You know, and again, it wasn't an injury where you know the kid hit the post, and you're like, oh my God, and we didn't even know he was hurt, you know, until after the fact. So there's so many lessons here. I mean, forget it. We could go on. I mean, I realize we could go for days, right? Because it's just a matter of saying, well, you know, we want our kids also to be able to say, listen, I'm hurt, coach. Like, I'm really hurt, not hiding it and saying, I've got to play this game, that I've got to rally for the team. You want a level of that, but we also have to have the ability to say, you're hurt. Like, I need you to be a healthy adult. I don't need you to be an elite 12-year-old that that is now injured for the rest of their life. Or, you know, and I think that and again, because I played this, I remember I played a game. I look at my parents, I'm like, how the hell do you let me play this game? I have a broken rib playing in a state championship game, and the and the doctor was icing, you know, spraying frozen or whatever, you know, the the freeze stuff on my my ribs, saying, You could get through it. Like, I could have died. Like, I would have never done that. But it's just perspective of where you are in the moment, and nobody being able to say, it's not that big a deal. This is not, this is not where I want to go. And I think it's it's so refreshing to be able to have you be there. And then maybe we can just sit back and say, okay, well, what are the little things we can do to create a better culture in small increments to get get back to some reality here? And I and it's just the starting point of saying, I'm not playing, stepping away. Right, let's reset and live another day.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Evolution takes time. And and like I said, Mike, you grew up in that era where a rib broken rib was an hour-to-hour injury back at that point. Yeah, you know, it's it look, look at concussions just 10 years ago or you know, 15 years ago, where that was a day-to-day injury, it's not anymore. And you know, Bryce, what you've done here, um, like like all evolutions, you've created a conversation that needed to happen, right? And I also love that you're saying, yeah, this isn't going to change overnight. I'm not asking it to, you know, but the conversation's there. And you tapped on this a little bit, but kind of to to kind of round this episode out, you've created the conversation. Where do you want this conversation to go? Where do you hope it goes?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

Just uh, you know, and I said it throughout the you know, the hour here is just people to regain some perspective, right? That that's all I'm asking is and including myself, like it took me five, six years to find this perspective, you know, with my team, um, and other teams that we are interacting with. And so that's that's the first step. One having conversations which which we are now having. Like I say myself, I've you know, been in contact with many different people. No one's asking to change the game and all like the tournaments and other no, no one's doing that. They're just like, yeah, you're right, Bryce. Like we need more individuals just looking at this particular moments in rinks and making sure that we're all holding each other accountable. And and and that's the first step. Because, you know, if not, I you know, I just the amount of refs alone. If we just start with the ref, not to really tie in the refs, like I every game I I I have a ref come to me and just tell me how exhausted it is, right? And you know, and and that they just they don't want to ref anymore. And the people are we're begging refs. We are literally begging refs to do games, right? Because they don't like the environment. And so if we can't get the environment to change, you know, then we're not gonna have refs, right? Right. And I've now have some games where we've got one ref, and so and it's a competitive game. I already know, like, oh my gosh, like this is gonna be a disaster. Right? Because you know, you just I just cringe, like it's like you know, it's I if anything, I'd like to pull out of those games, right? Because you know, one ref and and the poor you know individual can't, you know, can't even keep up with the 12-year-olds when it comes to skating.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:50

So you can we had a we had we had a we had a nice conversation with your friend Kerry Frazier just about that same subject, just about, you know, how do you expect like you look out and you're like, are you the only one here? Like this is not fair to you. Like, I you know, do you know what you're gonna get eaten apart here? Like, not by me, but I say this is gonna be this is not gonna be good for you. And I think, you know, we have this conversation like, do we really need, you know, 17 games on a weekend where like you said, it's the same ref over and over and over again, and you're the guy that gets that ref on his last game of the day. You know, it's it's think about how mentally tastic it is for him or her. I mean, it's you know, but you're right. It's just there's so many facets of this that I love that I love that you know where these the conversations can go. You know, I think for me, it was like following what the conversation was on Twitter, the negatives and the positives, and then being able to read that and then seeing your article in the athletic. I think it just gives, I hope that people can see the the totality of this, and then understand that, you know, to your point, nobody's trying to nobody's trying to tell you you can't have tournaments and rankings and and it's not win at all costs. But let's let's understand the the role we all play as adults in in this and as as and as educators and as teachers and as trainers, and just understand as a bigger, you know, we have I think just a bigger responsibility for what we can do with our kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

Absolutely, because you know, I I'm not gonna sit here and say, I don't want to win. I absolutely want to win. Do I want to have a competitive team and and mentor these kids and help them along their path? Absolutely. Um, and and so, but we just gotta I just saw that this weekend, you know, that the perspective was we can't play that final game.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:31

Bryce, this has been a really great hour. It's really educational, inspirational. I want to thank you for doing what you did. And I don't think in any way that was easy. I just think you're a trailblazer in so many ways. This is another one, and thank you for creating the conversation that needed to be happening. It clearly needed to be happening because it's happening. It's happening right out there right now in the digital world. So thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

Yeah, but thanks for having me. Just uh I appreciate the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:55

I think some hockey parents out there who might have been in the camp uh against you know, you guys walking out and not playing and sending a strong message, need to do a little soul searching, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

It all takes time, it all takes time. That's you know, and and and that's just kind of also my perspective, Chrissy. I just uh I don't like to 100% judge people. Um they'll they'll make their decisions on their terms and their path and their journey. And um, and I like I said, I just even if we help a few a few situations, we're all for the better.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:34

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

I agree. Well, Bryce, thanks so much for being here. And listeners, watchers, thanks so much for being with us. This is gonna conclude this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Uh, obviously, check us out, our kidsplayhockey.com or wherever podcasts are heard. And uh, if you want to jump in this conversation with Bryce, he's on Twitter, he's all over the place. Check him out at Bryce Salvador. That's gonna do it for this one. Have a great day, everybody. Thank you.