Power Skating Expert Christian Grunnah on Breaking Bad Habits Transforming Your Skating Game

Lee MJ Elias [0:07 - 1:19]: Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias, and I'm joined today by my best friend, Christy Casciano Burns. And today we're digging into one of the most important hockey skills. Skating. Not stick handling, not shooting, not systems, not Michigan's skill skating. And we've brought in one of the best minds in the world when it comes to teaching it. Christian Grona is the founder of GRA Power Skating, something many of you have heard. A national leader in power skating and a player development person. He's a former NCAA player, a Shaddock St. Mary's alum, and a professional coach. And Christian has trained thousands of players at every level, from beginners to the NHL, the draft picks, anything in between you can think of, he's trained them. His method focuses on biomechanics, individual body structure, and building confidence through repetition. Now, if you've ever asked the question, and we know many of you have, when is the right time to start power skating? How do you tell if your kids fallen behind in skating? Where's the development? Where's the elite players? Where do they go? This episode is 100% for you, so let's get right into it. Christian, welcome to Arika's Konaki. 

Christian Grunnah [1:19 - 1:56]: Awesome. Thank you, Lee. Thank you, Christy. I'm, I'm so grateful to be here. It's such a privilege and a pleasure. And yeah, we can, we can dive in deep to this topic because there are so many, so many avenues towards understanding why it's so important to, to learn the proper techniques and training regimens for maximizing your skating effectiveness. I mean, it is, it's, it's the way we move for our game. And if we don't have all those little details and tools available to us, especially the younger players, it's going to catch up to you pretty quick. We know that. We know that. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [1:56 - 2:08]: Why don't you just start off explaining to parents what it is about power skating that's so important and what's the difference between just, you know, regular old skating and power skating? 

Christian Grunnah [2:08 - 2:08]: Absolutely. 

Christie Casciano [2:08 - 2:09]: What are we talking about here? 

Christian Grunnah [2:09 - 4:22]: Yeah, we'll give a little bit of a nod to the, to the term. It was, to my knowledge, it was coined years ago when. Right. The legendary Laura Stam got started. Started starting with, with hockey players. Right. She has a figure skating background and she started working with hockey players. But power skating is, is as it. You know, the term at its simplest form. Right. Is how to generate power in, in your Stride, Right. That's really where it came from. And the term eventually and now really kind of encompasses, you know, really edge control, body mechanics, all technique surrounding skating. And it's really, I would say, been adapted more for hockey than it has for figure skating. Right. So we can thank Laura Stam for that one. And we really want to think about all the different ways that skating differs from, say, every other sport that there is to play. Right? Our bodies are. Are naturally designed and fit to run linearly, right. In a linear motion. That doesn't mean we can't move side to side, but as soon as you strap some. Some sharp blades on the bottom of your feet, your technique of how to manipulate that tool on that slippery surface, it's going to change how you activate the proper muscle groups to. To get that tool to. To effectively manipulate the surface and get you moving. Right? So, yeah, so power skating, it really encompasses everything from technique to your efficiency to your athleticism even, Right? And yeah, we try, I try in my training to start from the foundations of understanding which edges, when to use which edge, how to use each edge, which. But then also how we're most efficiently creating that power. And honestly, that's really. And we'll get into it. That's really one of the biggest differences, isn't just how fast we are, but are we efficient on those edges? 

Lee MJ Elias [4:23 - 5:31]: You know, Christian, one of the things I was gifted as a young hockey player was an ability to skate. I was. It was the first skill that I had. And I remember I loved it. I loved skating. I love being really fast. And I remember the first time I was put into a power skating clinic, going into that, thinking, well, I'm a really good skater. And then realizing pretty quickly that while I was a proficient skater, man, did I have a lot to learn. And in that skill. I'm bringing this up for our audience because I think the number one question I get asked as a coach, we get asked as a podcasting group, is what's the skill I should work on? What should my kid work on? And my answer is always skating. And I also follow up with, I don't really care how good you think your kid is at skating, right? This is by far not. Not a little bit by far the most important skill set in the game. And if you're not willing to dive into it fully, I believe it will hold you back. I'm not saying that the other skills don't have a place, 100% do, but I was joking in the intro, if you can, Michigan, but you don't know how to Mohawk. 

Christian Grunnah [5:31 - 5:31]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:31 - 5:33]: You may have a problem. 

Christian Grunnah [5:33 - 5:44]: That's absolutely true. And you know what's really interesting, right? Like, if we think about the other major team sports, like nobody says, like for soccer, it's a given, like you have to be able to run. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:45 - 5:45]: Right? 

Christian Grunnah [5:45 - 6:05]: Right. If. If we can't move properly within the environment. And, and what of the things that's so unique about our game is. Right. Like, unlike most other team sports, even though there are boundaries in those team sports, our boundaries are solid. Right. Like there is a wall there. Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [6:05 - 6:07]: So sometimes a person. Yeah. 

Christian Grunnah [6:07 - 7:29]: That really has a massive effect on the way that the game is played. On top of all of the movement that we have to learn utilizing this tool. Right. The skate. So you don't think like, again, basketball, soccer, football, baseball, like, it's automatically understood you need to be able to run and move. But because our game is. Is enclosed. Right. It's easy to kind of not, not forget about skating. It's like it's. It's this thing that's easily not just misunderstood, but gone. Oh, well, you know, if my kid has the puck on his stick, well, it doesn't really matter how good of a skater is. And we can kind of see that at the lower levels, at the younger levels, for sure. But we also see how many times right before USA Hockey went to cross ice, right? How many times the kid who has the best wheels, the kid who can get that ice up, you know, that puck up the ice and chase it down, he's got like seven breakaways a game. Right. And as we get older and as the bodies get bigger and the space shrinks, that skating becomes not just more important, but it becomes so much more obvious who is able to manipulate that service and who is falling behind, you. 

Christie Casciano [7:29 - 7:44]: Know, and we love to get into the question, Lee. And I know, I know everyone's going to ask this, at what age is the proper age to get your kids to even start thinking about some of those elements that go into power skating? 

Christian Grunnah [7:44 - 12:01]: 100%. Yeah. And so, you know, that's probably, besides sharpening, that's probably the number one question that I get is, you know, when will you start working with my kid? And there's no hard and fast rule. But what I will say and what I've found, it's less about a player's physical ability and more about their. Their ability to focus on how their body is relating to that blade. And a lot of players don't have that mind body connection yet until they're 8, 9, or 10. There are some younger players, right? 5, 6, 7 for sure, who start to see, right, that next level of coordination or like I said, mind body connection. But a lot of times those players have a difficult time just even for 30 minutes, focusing on that technique, right? There can be a lot of frustration involved and, and then that frustration can take over and then they'll either lose motivation or they'll just continue their bad habits because they're like, well, this gets me going. And right now that works in my little cross ice environment and I'm faster than everybody else, but I still don't know how to stop properly. So I'm just gonna forget that as the 6, 7, 8 year old and you know, until, until that becomes a problem, not going to worry about solving it. So to me what I've found is like in general, 7, 8, 9, right. That's kind of the meaty age where it's like, okay, let's start to really introduce proper technique earlier than that. Let's stay with the fun games, let's stay with exploration, let's stay with making it game focused, right? Not, you know, and I don't, if you ever came to one of my clinics, you'll see I really don't use cones. I, I really have a more exploratory way of, and creative way of, of looking at how the ice is, is your surface, your, your playing space and how you're moving within it. And sometimes cones can limit us and limit the kid's brain and how they're, they're moving because right, they see the cone and it becomes about the focus of the cone, not about how do I feel in that movement. It's more like, did I make it around? Did I go around the cone? Did I stop at the cone? Did I touch the cone? And then that pulls away from the focus of again the feeling in their body, through their feet, through their legs, right? Of what's actually happening. Not that cones are all bad, but like if you go to again, a game focused learning environment, again for the real little guys, where they're playing tag, where they're, they're racing, where they're given like, hey, you know, you got to do three jumping jacks before you take off, right? All those little things start with those because the, the little person's brain just isn't really ready yet. For the most part there again, there are exceptions to that. Direct feedback from a coach to say, hey, feel this, try to feel this change. And once they're there again, 7, 8, 9, 10. Once they're at that level, try to maximize the reps that they get with a coach. And that doesn't mean. Doesn't have to be in a private environment, doesn't have to be one on one. Right. Because you don't go to class one on one like school. You don't go to school one on one with a teacher. The teacher is in front of you. Right. 10, 20 kids, they're giving you an assignment. They're showing you how to solve the problems. They're giving you more problems to solve. You explore in the classroom how to solve those, those problems. This is how I approach skating training, is give me a group of kids, I will talk to you how the blade works in relation to the ice, the science of it, the physics of it, how your body needs to respond to that tool, the different muscles we need to activate to get that tool to work properly for us. And. And then you go explore within the drill or. Right. The. The game that I'm giving you to try to manipulate the tool to the most effective use possible. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:02 - 12:16]: I love the way you're breaking this down, Christian, for a few reasons. We talk a lot on the show about how practice should emulate gameplay in some form. You know, and again, we're not, we're not ripping cones apart. But there's no cones in the game. 

Christian Grunnah [12:16 - 12:16]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:16 - 12:22]: There's no private lesson in the game. And again, I'm not saying that these don't have valuable aspects to them. 

Christian Grunnah [12:22 - 12:23]: Correct. But. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:23 - 12:36]: But I think sometimes we lose that at the younger ages because parents go, well, the development, development we talk about all the time on the show. We'll just look, look from kind of below eight years old for a minute. Part of the development is finding fun in the game. 

Christian Grunnah [12:37 - 12:37]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:37 - 12:44]: And I talk all the time. I've said this, people. How'd you teach your kids to skate? I took them to a public session and had them dodge around people. 

Christian Grunnah [12:45 - 12:45]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:45 - 12:53]: And they essentially taught themselves the basics of skating. Now, I'm not expecting them to have an advanced understanding or a master's level understanding. 

Christian Grunnah [12:53 - 12:53]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:53 - 12:58]: Control. But. But they taught themselves for the most part. And we had fun doing it. 

Christian Grunnah [12:58 - 12:58]: Absolutely. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:59 - 13:13]: You know, it's funny. I'm glad you brought up the seven, eight and nine year old thing. And we'll get, for those of you listen, we'll get to the kind of the older ages too in a minute, maybe look at a little bit of a progression. But it's funny because we see that in my youth organization they bring in a skating coach. And what's funny, I Want to ask you about this. 

Christian Grunnah [13:13 - 13:14]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:14 - 13:25]: Is one of, one of the kids probably unfairly described the skating coach as torture. All right, all right. And, and what's funny is that too. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [13:25 - 13:27]: Well, all the parents, we just want to stick handle. 

Christian Grunnah [13:27 - 13:30]: Right, right. Torture. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:30 - 13:35]: And what's funny is, luckily most of us are on the same page of it. It's not torture. You're being challenged. 

Christian Grunnah [13:35 - 13:35]: Right, right. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:35 - 13:42]: So, so the question I want to ask you, and again, we're kind of keeping this in that maybe that, that, that squirt peewee kind of age group. 

Christian Grunnah [13:42 - 13:43]: Yes. Right. Yep. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:43 - 14:11]: Is, is what is the approach we should take as parents to maybe explain to our kids of first off, this is not torture. You don't know what torture is. All right. This is not torture. Was back skating at 5:00am When I, you know, before we understood half of this stuff. All right. This is actually something that's critical for your development. I wish we could just, you know, turn the polarity from the kids minds a little bit from, oh, I'm bad at this too. This is fun, this is good, right? 

Christie Casciano [14:11 - 14:16]: And you know, and you hear from the kids, well, why do I need to learn that? I'm. I have a great shot. 

Christian Grunnah [14:16 - 14:17]: That's all right. 

Lee MJ Elias [14:17 - 14:17]: Great. 

Christie Casciano [14:18 - 14:29]: My shot. So yeah, share with us some great advice that parents can share with their kids to get them more excited about the fundamentals of skating. 

Christian Grunnah [14:29 - 15:52]: Absolutely. So one of the things that I will usually point to and when I train my kids, like when I'm doing camps or clinics, right. I'll have an hour or two of off ice training as well. And a lot of that training depending on the age group. Right. Like if we are talking about score peewees, a lot of that training honestly will be coordination and flexibility. It won't even be like power or strength or agility or speed. Right. And, and to me, right, like think about juggling, okay? So the kid's gonna say, why do I need to juggle? Right. Like parents, like, hey, you know, have you learned how to juggle? Right? Juggle two balls, juggle three, juggle four. Right. How is it going to hurt you? It's not. It's going to help your hand eye coordination, which then is going to help your stick handling, which then is going to help your ability to see the ice, which that is going to make you a more effective player with the puck. Right? So like helping the kids see the line down the road. Right. A lot of times I would say one of the, the biggest failures of, of skating coaches is focusing just too much on the technique and not the relatability to like you just said, like every kid wants the secret. Every kid is like, hey, give me, give me an edge. Like literally, right? Give me an edge over. 

Lee MJ Elias [15:53 - 15:53]: Right. 

Christian Grunnah [15:55 - 17:32]: Right. Like when I'm in a one on one entering the zone and that defenseman is, has done a great job angling me, how am I going to escape out of that reliably and consistently. So if you are able to mold that into, hey, here's how we use this stopping technique, this shave, right. If we understand how to manipulate the blade with that precision, then we take that technique, we put it into. Okay, now we're going to play a little game one on one, right? Like you and your partner are playing a tag game. I'll play a, a game I call stick tag quite a bit, right. Where the, the offensive player doesn't have a puck. He has, he has to have two hands and stick, he has to have the stick blade on the ice. Otherwise it's cheating, right. The defensive player has to have one hand on the stick and the stick turned over and they have to tag the other players blade so they win. The defensive player wins the round as soon as they tag the offensive players blade. Right. But we won't play that game until after we've experimented with all the different ways to shave the ice, which is stopping. Right. So the ability of the coach or coaches to relate why a technique is going to be useful specifically in a situation the kids want to see it within a situation in the game, a circumstance that's going to help those kids go light bulb. Oh, thanks. Because again, just like if we talk about school, right. Like kids want. Kids get frustrated with when they're given math homework and they're like, why do I need this? 

Christie Casciano [17:33 - 17:34]: Of course, right? 

Christian Grunnah [17:34 - 17:35]: Why? When am I getting. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:35 - 17:36]: I still think that, Chris. 

Christian Grunnah [17:36 - 17:55]: Yeah. So if your teacher is like, here's a life situation where you need this, right. And if you can do it faster, then you don't have to pull out the calculator. Right. The easier it is for these kids and parents, right? You ask parents, right? Like so the better the parent is at understanding the overall game. 

Christie Casciano [17:55 - 17:55]: Yeah. 

Christian Grunnah [17:55 - 18:21]: Understanding hockey, you don't have to even understand the technique, but you can point to, hey, I watched you in the game last time and you struggled to stop to your left side and that kept you from escaping in time and he stole the puck from you and the kid goes, bam, you're right. Wow, I really do need to work on that. But if you can't point to the exact situation, they're just going to go, I don't need that. Yeah, right. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:22 - 18:29]: And the parents blame something else. I could have just passed it to you. Go ahead, Christy. 

Christie Casciano [18:29 - 18:41]: Yeah, no, I think you're right. Creating these light bulb moments for our kids are going to help them grasp it and want to use it and improve their, their game. 

Christian Grunnah [18:41 - 18:42]: So that's it. 

Christie Casciano [18:42 - 18:42]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:44 - 19:09]: Can we pull the thread on this a little bit? Because I think it's really important. You know, like, like when, when, when we talk to coaches, we always say that, you know, I know USA Hockey, specifically in the US Hockey Canada is similar. It's all about moving, getting the drills going, a lot of movement. And I, I actually agree with that. I'm not against small area games, of course, but, but I think one of the things we do miss is, is we. Christian, you're leading into this. We don't explain the why enough. 

Christian Grunnah [19:10 - 19:10]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:10 - 19:36]: And we just expect the kids to get out there and kind of do. And then we wonder why the hockey IQ is, is way down right now. It's because we're not explaining the why. You know, and Christian, I want to dive in as to a little bit. Just thinking about it, like things like speed, deception and explaining to a kid to understand what 50% speed is, 75% speed and 100% speed is at a young age to me is a really important drill. 

Christian Grunnah [19:36 - 19:38]: And it's funny, important and challenging. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:38 - 19:49]: Right. Because kids can't do it if you say go. I've done this 100 times with like 7, 8, 9 year olds. Go, 25. Go, 50. Go 75. Everything's 100 or 110. They have, they have no idea. 

Christian Grunnah [19:49 - 19:50]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:50 - 20:02]: You know, and eventually, hopefully, I mean, if I don't explain well, why are we doing this? Well, it's very important to understand how to go certain speeds because that deception creates time and space. Again, I'm not trying to get too far ahead. 

Christie Casciano [20:02 - 20:02]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:02 - 20:15]: But there's such a skill, and this is why we had. John, there's such a skill in understanding skating. I think that, that the, the, the hockey IQ jumble as well. If I can get my hands really fast. 

Christian Grunnah [20:15 - 20:16]: Yeah, yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:16 - 20:24]: Not that there's not a skill there, but it's the speed, the deception, the agility that is a massive skill. 

Christian Grunnah [20:24 - 20:25]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:25 - 20:32]: To creating time and space for yourself. So explain the why is. I'm just, that's all I'm pulling the thread on. Christy, I'll let you ask a question here. 

Christian Grunnah [20:32 - 20:33]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:33 - 20:45]: It's so important your kids understand that parents and, and that you Understand it too, because if you don't see it as a parent, I'm not making fun of you. You're not gonna know. You're not gonna know. You'll say something like, just skate harder. Just skate harder. 

Christian Grunnah [20:45 - 20:47]: Yes. Thank you for bringing that up. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:47 - 20:48]: Right. 

Christian Grunnah [20:48 - 20:59]: I, I'm gonna, I gotta go off that one. Okay. So. Yeah, My, my least favorite phrase in hockey is move your feet. So the beauty of our game. We all have. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:59 - 21:01]: Everyone said. I've said it. 

Christian Grunnah [21:01 - 21:07]: The beauty of our game is, is that our, our surface allows us to move without moving our feet. 

Christie Casciano [21:07 - 21:08]: Correct. 

Christian Grunnah [21:08 - 21:15]: And if you watch, if we picked right, like top 10 players of all time, like start with Wayne Gretzky. 

Lee MJ Elias [21:15 - 21:16]: Sure. 

Christian Grunnah [21:16 - 21:22]: Right. Like start with Mario Lemieux, Start with Bobby Orr. Beautiful skaters. Did they skate hard? 

Lee MJ Elias [21:22 - 21:24]: No, I skated smart. 

Christian Grunnah [21:25 - 21:45]: This is the, this is the thing that's so. It's really difficult. You nailed it on the head. Like deception is, is more than, than just skating as fast as you can. My, my, my business slogan is find the speed to succeed. It's not put your pedal to the metal and go as fast as you can and run into the wall. 

Lee MJ Elias [21:46 - 21:48]: There's other sports for that. That's nascar. 

Christian Grunnah [21:48 - 22:39]: Yeah. It's, it's track and field. It's like, it's speed skating. Right? Like, it's, that's, that is go as fast as you can for as long as you can or as long as the race allows and needs to. And, and even then, like, you know, so my father was a speed skater and that's where, that's where my, you know, my training originates from, is from his teaching. But he would even say, like in short track speed skating, there, there is some, some, some gamesmanship. Right. It's like you don't just go 100% all the way through. Right. You, you have to use your speed effectively and efficiently. So we bring that back to hockey. Right. We bring this to this concept. Like you said, how do we teach kids that you don't actually need to go 100% all the time without losing the effort. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:39 - 22:40]: Right. 

Christian Grunnah [22:40 - 23:15]: Spot. Right. Because everybody wants to. And, and, and understandably. So use the phrase hard work or work hard. Right. Our game allows for our, our, our tools on the bottom of our feet, the blades to work for us. So if we in fact work too hard, we're going to work ourselves into a shorter shift and less effectiveness because we're going to be moving our feet the whole time. We're not going to be gliding properly. We're not going to be just, we're just gonna be skating around with like a chicken with his head cut off. Right? And. 

Lee MJ Elias [23:15 - 23:15]: Right. 

Christian Grunnah [23:15 - 23:31]: To be fair, like, I did that for a period of time when I was younger because I was always the fastest guy and I could just go 100 miles an hour, steal the puck from this guy and take it from that guy and, and just like enjoy the, the feeling of, oh, I can move super fast. 

Christie Casciano [23:31 - 23:33]: Right. And it looks really cool. 

Christian Grunnah [23:33 - 24:03]: Yeah. It's like, wow. Yeah. But at some point, and this is a good problem to have, right? Yeah, it's. To me, it's easier to teach that player how to be effective versus the player who is really struggling to put in an effort and understand exactly what you said, Lee, that there are differing levels of not just speed but the, the, the power that you're putting into your skating and when and why. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:03 - 24:04]: Right. 

Christian Grunnah [24:04 - 25:33]: We're always going to come back to when and why. Right. Our game is not. It's. It's not just race. Like I break the game down in, in three modes. It's. And this helps the kids a ton. It's race, battle, space, right? Right. So you race for the puck, right. Even at the face off, technically you race for the puck, right? You race for the puck. And soon after the race, whether you win it or not, whether you win it, whether you lose it, there's going to be a battle. That battle is, is either a one on one or you're outnumbered, right? You have. It's one on two, one on three, whatever it is. But there's a battle. You need to navigate that battle by finding more space, right. That's either initiated by your skating ability, right. Escaping, turning, changing directions, changing speed, or by moving the puck right. By passing. Right. Or, or by chipping the puck into a new area for your teammate to then start the whole process again. Race, battle, space, Right? Right. So if we can't get past number one, you ain't gonna get to two and three. And that's where we see teams like if, if there's a huge gap between two teams and, and one team is just like running over the other team. And you see this at the youth level and every right. You lose 10 nothing. Not just because you haven't gotten past number one, but because the other team is able to Skip through from 2 to 3. They went from race, we won the race to the puck and we get more space because you can't even keep up. 

Christie Casciano [25:33 - 25:34]: Yeah. 

Christian Grunnah [25:34 - 26:19]: So yeah, it's teaching, like you said, teaching that, that differentiation of when we have the puck, we don't always have to go full speed, Right? Right. It's very challenging. The players who understand it early are usually the ones who are very confident in not just their, their ability to manipulate the puck, but manipulate the playing surface. That's part of the iq. Yeah, they, they have, they have that understanding that in fact if I save my energy a little bit, right. And I pull my opponents in while I'm going slower, I'm then going to have more space and time to go faster once they commit to me too early. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [26:19 - 26:40]: That's a great way to explain it to kids too. I'm curious, Christian, what happens when kids, and I say it all the time, they've got bad habits, short strides, heads always down. You know, they don't have the deep edges on their crossovers. How difficult is to. Is it to break kids of their bad skating habits? And how long does it take and what do you recommend? 

Christian Grunnah [26:40 - 31:12]: Yeah, so we're lucky. Nowadays it's a blessing and a curse, but it's mostly a blessing as long as it's used correctly. Like we have videos, the ability to video anywhere, anytime now, right. With our phones. So, you know, showing a kid outside of a game environment, right? Training the player with video so that they can see what they're doing. Because this is what coming back to, like I said earlier, right, that mind, body connection. A lot of players, they, they might not have it yet, right? Different. And this is to me, like, this is really right, the biggest difference between like great players and good players. The, the best players are the ones who are able to recognize their mistakes innately and when it's not working for them and they're able to almost not watch themselves but feel that it's not working. Right? And I'm not saying that good players don't have that at all, but they are develop, developing that self critical or that critical self, self in, in coaching themselves maybe at a slower pace. So like you said, like a kid maybe who's. Who has a very rigid habit of heads down, right. Tell people all the time there's two secrets of skating that are so easy to just, you know, look, overlook. As we say bend your knees, which is another problematic phrase. You say move your feet. The two secrets are here, our eyes and our core, right? So if our eyes are looking in the direction we want to go, just like when we drive, which again, kids don't relate to driving. But if they ride a bike, right, we say, hey, when you ride your bike, you're not watching your feet. Pedal the bike. Yeah. You have to see down the road. Otherwise you're gonna run into something. So that's one that I use a lot as I'll say, hey, are you riding your bike? Where are you going? And then with your core, one of the major issues is that players, they think again, they think chest up. The problem with that is it's really not, that's not a, A, a recognizable cue for most kids, right? They'll kind of like stick their chest up and then they'll end up with, you know, an over curved back here where they're really putting on a strain on their lower back, right? So what I'll say is, I'll say belly, eyes up, button up, as in belly buttons forward, right? Because as soon as your belly buttons bent over and you're. And you're hunched over your, your knees now your weight is too far forward. And that's usually like what you just said, Christie, is their heads down because their core is soft and their belly buttons over their toes. So eyes up, button up makes a huge difference for a lot of kids where instead of chest up, right, where they kind of like do that over correction. As soon as they put their belly button almost like on a wire, I'm like, okay, put the belly button on a wire so it's always facing the playing surface, not the ice. Don't, don't let your, your logo and your belly button face the ice, because that's fantastic. Yeah, it's gonna, it's gonna put you all kinds of all over the place. But in terms of the timing of like when kids have habits that are hard to break, you know, this is, this is the difference in, in, you know, most athletes is what we call a late bloomer, right? So there's so many factors that go into this. Brain development's a big one, but body development and the rate at which a kid is growing, right. I have so many examples of kids who went through all kinds of. I just call it Gumby stage, right? Where they're like, and you know, like 12, 13, 14 for most kids. But some kids go through that Gumby stage even through like 16, right? Because they're either gonna like, they're either growing a ton and they're over 6 foot really early, right? Say they like, are a 6 foot 13 year old, which there's plenty of now, right? And they like, their coordination is all over the place. So that kid is probably going to just by the nature of having to play the game, right? Not just work on their technique all the time. They're going to create Habits that aren't really useful. Right. So some of those habits are going to have to be ironed out as they go through that gumby stage into 14, 15, 16. And then they're finished with puberty and they have their, their full muscle set and then you can really dial it in, complete it. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:12 - 31:20]: Yeah, I remember that awkward phase very well. It was one year I grew five inches and I was the tallest kid on the team. Then next year I was not the tallest. 

Christian Grunnah [31:21 - 31:21]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:21 - 31:32]: And you got to change your game kind of accordingly. But yeah, I think one of the things that we have to do is as parents and coaches is also remind parents and kids that this is very normal. 

Christian Grunnah [31:32 - 31:32]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:32 - 31:49]: And that the growth process is actually can be part of the fun of kind of rediscovering things over and over again. I know that can be frustrating at times, but it's part of the progression. I wanted to bring this up too, because we talked about this earlier in the show, kind of about, about how skating is a skill. 

Christian Grunnah [31:49 - 31:49]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:49 - 31:57]: And how it can be utilized. You know, when I'm coaching the high level teams, one of the things we talk about all the time is time and space and creating time and space for yourself. 

Christian Grunnah [31:57 - 31:58]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:58 - 32:10]: I think what, you know, when we talk about looking down the line, sometimes what players and parents don't see is how meticulous and how small time and space creation is. 

Christian Grunnah [32:10 - 32:15]: When you get to an elite level, it's impossibly small. It's a half a second. Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:15 - 33:08]: But that's enough. And that's, and that's where I think people get lost. It's like, no, you don't understand that creating a half of second at the elite level is all you need as an elite player to make a play. And I think that again, this is where the stick handling conversation comes in, where people go, well, if I get really good hands, and I, I'll say it again, having great hands is a gift. It's a wonderful thing. But your body positioning, your ability to utilize your feet probably is the most important skill to create that extra half a second, whether it's protecting the puck with your body or maneuvering yourself. Can we talk about this from a progressive standpoint for, for all the parents listening, the meticulous nature of, of skating at that elite level, maybe how you approach that a little bit, we don't have to go too far into it, but I, I want parents to understand that, you know, it's not just stride work. 

Christian Grunnah [33:08 - 33:08]: No. 

Lee MJ Elias [33:08 - 33:13]: It's not getting fast. You know, at that level, it's Meticulous. It's insane. 

Christian Grunnah [33:14 - 35:00]: Yeah. So one of the things that I, I. The. One of the first things that I really love to point to to kids and then therefore their parents is like if you get to go to an NHL, specifically an NHL game, right, where they have the ice crew come out, not the same bony, but the ice crew come out during the stoppages, right? In the TV timeouts and whatnot. What you will see on the ice, like the, the by far the most obvious signs you'll see on the ice are stops, are shaves of the ice, right? And if you sit back and you, like, do a soft focus on the game, like the number one thing that you will see are players fast to slow, right? How fast can you slow down? I know that sounds crazy, but how fast can you slow down? How fast can you stop, right? And that, that precision, like if we talk about the physics of the blade, right, and how precise you have to be to. To stop, literally stop on a dime like it is. It's crazy. So what the blade is doing, like if my hand is a blade here, right? You have to start a shave of the ice at or close to a 90 degree angle. If you start to shave too early, your blade's gonna hop. Right? Right. So that I always say the shave is not the stop. To stop is not the shave, right? The stop is when the shave is completed so that the blade then bites the ice. The physics of that are crazy. You're literally taking a layer off of the ice to then get yourself slowed down quick enough for that blade to meet the ice at an angle so that the blade bites. The. The. The speed at which an NHL player can stop is truly insane. Yeah. Right? Skaters don't stop. Figure skaters don't stop, right? They don't shave. They. 

Christie Casciano [35:00 - 35:03]: At least we do a T stop, right? 

Christian Grunnah [35:03 - 35:11]: Yeah. And it's not. And in many programs, right, like if you're. If you. If your spiral or whatever you're doing shows any kind of shade to get points off. 

Christie Casciano [35:11 - 35:12]: Yes, you do, Right? 

Christian Grunnah [35:12 - 35:13]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [35:13 - 35:15]: So no shaping. 

Christian Grunnah [35:15 - 36:09]: No. Right, Exactly. So the. To me, the most important skating skill you can have as a hockey player is to stop is to shave the ice. Because the players who are able to separate themselves in that half a second by stopping and then going again, right? Stop and starts. We talk about it all the time. But the precision, precision at which the. The foot activation you need, the core control you need in order to make sure you don't wipe out when you hit that shave, right. Is massive, right? Huge and and one of the things, like I just said, like, your foot activation, Right. Like, I feel it because, like, I. I almost never get to play anymore. I'm almost always coaching, right? And I'll do my camps and clinics mostly in the off season, but, like, if I get a chance to, like, play in a game the next day, for as much as I'm on the ice, I'm always sore in two places. 

Lee MJ Elias [36:09 - 36:10]: Not soaring. 

Christian Grunnah [36:10 - 37:11]: My quads. Not sore. My glutes, my. And my hammies. Like, in my legs. It's my feet and my back, right? And it's like, that's the proof that my feet are working harder and my back is working harder to stabilize in those changes of directions. Yeah. And the precision we need. We need is in those two places. Like I said, core control and your foot, Right. A lot of players don't even think about, where am I placing my weight on my foot in any given technique, right? That's one of the biggest things that I'll do is I. As. As I will. I'll. Here's the drill. Here's the technique we're working on, and I'll ask the kids, where do you think our weight is in our foot during this movement? And as soon as that turns their. Their brain on, like, they're like, whoa, that. Why I never thought about that. And once they make that connection, that. That channels up the rest of the way. Channels through the leg, channels through the core. And it changes so much when it clicks. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:12 - 37:36]: I mean, I get. The audience is gonna have to take my word. It is so beautiful. Such a symphony when everything works together. Christy, you know this as a figure skater, too. I mean, there's nothing quite like the fluidity of. Of skating a certain way. Now, I do. I do have to ask this question, and. And Christian, you're the perfect person to bring this up, because I don't love bringing this up. I'm gonna say two names right now. 

Christian Grunnah [37:36 - 37:37]: Okay. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:37 - 37:38]: Connor McDavid, Nathan McKinnon. 

Christian Grunnah [37:39 - 37:39]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [37:39 - 38:07]: I don't like to bring them up because everybody compares people to them, and it's like, these are God's gifts to hockey. They're the point 0/ Infinite 1% hockey players. But I'm bringing it up for this reason because I think. And I would love to get your thoughts on this, I think there's a misconception about these guys, because what I hear from young players is, well, they just skate through everybody, and they just. They just dangle through everybody. And I said, if you watch them, that is not what they are doing. 

Christian Grunnah [38:07 - 38:08]: That's right. 

Lee MJ Elias [38:08 - 38:19]: All right. And I said, and I said, they are actually probably the greatest example of not doing that. Well, McDavid just skates through five guys. That's not what he's doing. 

Christian Grunnah [38:20 - 38:20]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [38:20 - 38:33]: Can you, can you talk for a minute about how these are two of the most elite skaters in history? Like, I, again, like, I, I, I cannot praise them enough for their skating. They are the best probably ever. 

Christie Casciano [38:33 - 38:38]: Right? Great examples, excellent examples. And Christian, it's all yours. 

Christian Grunnah [38:38 - 38:51]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the, the wonderful thing, right? It's like, I think what happens is we see what the kids see, especially. Right. The highlights. Well, where did the highlight reel start? 

Lee MJ Elias [38:51 - 38:52]: Right. 

Christian Grunnah [38:52 - 38:59]: They had the puck already. Okay. What happened? What were they doing before they got the puck? Have you watched the two of them? And they, you know, those guys talk. They. 

Christie Casciano [38:59 - 39:00]: Sure. 

Christian Grunnah [39:00 - 39:14]: They're, they're on Team Canada. They work together. Right. Those guys are, are using each other as examples. Right? Oh, how did he, how did he do that? Okay, I'm gonna try that next time. Right. They are winding up their speed more often than not before they get the puck. 

Lee MJ Elias [39:14 - 39:15]: Right. 

Christian Grunnah [39:15 - 41:15]: Right. Like, that is what is allowing them to go through those guys. It's really not just like you said, it's not just the stick handling, and it's not just like, hey, hey. Well, if I just skate really fast. Okay, well, when did the speed start? And how did you get the puck? What were you doing before you got the puck? And here's, here's the other thing I'm going to throw out there. Like, I'll ask the kids a lot of time in my camps. I'll say, who's the best skater in the game? They'll say, those two guys. And I'll say, no, say it's K McAr. And they're like, what? I'm like, do. Does Conor McDavid and Nathan McKinnon have to skate backwards very often in the game? They go, oh. I'm like, yeah. So technically, the, to me, the best skaters in the game are the guy, Kale McCarr, Quinn Hughes, the guys who are having to change directions and facing more often than not and who have sometimes two and a half minute shifts if they're out there on the power play and then they get stuck out there. Right, Right. So not to knock Connor McDavid and Nathan McKinnon, but they're the, the thing that's impressive about those two is their ability to maintain the speed that they have with the puck. And that's what we see that's so impressive. Right. We're like, wow, he is literally going like 25 miles an hour, right? Nathan McKinnon, they do all those stats. He had over A hundred more 20 mile an hour bursts than Connor McDavid last year. Like something like 400. Some odd 20 mile an hour bursts like crazy. But that means again that he's winding up his speed likely more often than not before he gets the puck. Right? Here's the problem that we're going to find in, in kids thinking this. Okay. Well, if I just go super fast and my teammates are going to give me the puck, right? So here's this, this problem. What we need to pull back is we need to get the, the players to understand it's not just the speed that beat them. Right? When did he do it? 

Lee MJ Elias [41:15 - 41:15]: Right? 

Christian Grunnah [41:15 - 41:44]: Okay. Right. At what position on the ice did he start to wind up his speed? Right. In what situation? Okay. Did the other team just go for a change? Right. Are they already set back in. In. Right. A neutral zone forecheck. So that all of a sudden. Right. Like he has that ability to wind up his speed. Right. And, and recognize that situation. Isn't every situation you find in a game. And let's actually watch all the times Connor McDavid and Nathan McKinnon weren't successful. 

Lee MJ Elias [41:44 - 41:44]: Right. 

Christian Grunnah [41:44 - 42:41]: Guess what? It's probably 80 of the time. Right? That's the crazy part is we think, oh, they're actually successful 80. No, they're successful maybe 20. Right, right. And that the defensemen who are meeting them. Right. Are actually able to keep them from just walking to the net. Right. To just going through everybody. It's just that we see the highlight reels. The kids are like, ah, if I just do that, that's the answer. But we forget about all the times where, right. The defenseman did angle Connor McDavid out. Like, it's so, so fun. We were all so excited to watch Four nations and we get to watch the, the Olympics this winter. And it's going to be the best hockey possible. Right? We get to see all these incredible players at the highest level of the game. Put all these skills on display and you're going to see again, more often than not, those two and every other player fail to be successful offensively more than they are. 

Lee MJ Elias [42:41 - 42:43]: They don't show that on Instagram. 

Christie Casciano [42:43 - 42:43]: No, no. 

Christian Grunnah [42:45 - 45:23]: Yeah, exactly. And to me, that is super important. Watch how often he's getting it. Not wrong, but he's getting stopped. And then let's think about it from the other side. Why did he get stopped? Was it because he did something wrong or did the defensive player do a really nice job of skating to close them off? Right. Because that really does happen a lot. Right. Like, not just defenseman, but like whoever your opponent is does a really nice job of timing their speed, using their skating skills to shut off a player offensively. And I think that's so, so, so important. And we, like, I could say this to him, blue in the face, right? Like 95 to 99% of your shift is without the puck. Right? Right. So that doesn't just mean, right, be a good skater, but it's like, what are you actually doing with your skating for that 95 to 99% of the time? What, what are you doing to make yourself the most effective defensively, offensively, with or without the puck? Right. Like, there's, there's so many different things that all the skating techniques that we have can either help us or really hinder us from being successful. And if we bring this all the way back to where we started, the earlier you are able as a kid. Right. Again. 8U 10U. 12U. The earlier you're able to learn all the different ways to utilize the blade, then you don't have to think about it. Once the game, Once there's hitting right, once there's tag up off sides, once there's advanced systems play. Like, if you have to think about that stuff by the time you're a teenager and you're playing AAA hockey, it's, it's not gonna happen. You're, you're. That's where we get stuck. If you're still, if you're still stuck in a game with your footwork behind the play, someone else is going to keep going up. And I tell people all the time, 99 of the players who get drafted in the NHL and the first thing that somebody says about them when they're getting drafted in the, the, the analysts are up there, oh, you know, his skating's not up to par. Good luck. Like, it's probably too up to you. Yeah, it's probably too late. There are very, very few players who are not, especially now, who are not already elite skaters being drafted. And, and unless you just have like, you know, the, the best hockey IQ in the world, if your skating is holding you back by the time you get drafted, it's, it's going to be so hard to fix that technique at 18, 19 and 20 years old. 

Christie Casciano [45:23 - 45:40]: Right. And Kristen, I was wondering if we could throw a nugget or two out there for goalie parents because we've always had excellent skaters in the net. And I think a lot of goalie parents assume they don't need to work on skating. 

Christian Grunnah [45:40 - 45:41]: Sure. 

Christie Casciano [45:41 - 45:45]: But it's critical to that position too, right? 

Christian Grunnah [45:46 - 46:05]: Yeah. And the thing I think too, the earlier that players, like I would say, you know, that's the beauty of, of cross ice that we have is like, get those, get those young kids trying goalie as soon as possible so that they can understand how different that movement pattern is. 

Lee MJ Elias [46:05 - 46:05]: Right. 

Christian Grunnah [46:05 - 47:00]: Like, goalie is like almost like a different sport. Right. Like, it really is like you're wearing different pads, you're. You're seeing the ice in a completely different way and you're moving in a different way. And then eventually, right, like outside of it, you, you have a completely different skate and a very different blade. You essentially don't use your outside edge. Right. So like those, those parents whose kids are goalies, like, get them, get them experimenting and exploring whether it's with, you know, high level goalie coach or throw them in a, a skating session or two early on so that they can have that time experimenting with the blade. So, so that there's a level of, of biomechanic understanding. What am I actually standing on here? What am I doing right, with this thing and not just guessing and not hoping, oh, I'm gonna make that slide across, no problem. So. Yep, for sure. 

Lee MJ Elias [47:01 - 47:23]: I say you talk about stopping on a dimension. Know, my son's a goaltender and, and you know, I'm very, very impressed with his ability at his age to understand, wow, this is an important skill and to take the time to work on that at every practice. You know, it's funny what we teach young goaltenders and we make them do the T pushes and the slides and I just want to make saves. I'm like, well, if you want to make saves, you better learn how to do this. 

Christian Grunnah [47:23 - 47:24]: Gotta move. 

Lee MJ Elias [47:24 - 47:54]: Yeah. Because. Because it's not going to work out for you if you don't. Christian, I do want to, I want to jump onto your skating academy a little bit too. And you know, I mentioned in the open some of your approach. You've given us some real diamond sayings today. But what do you think has separated your, your skating stuff from everybody else? And again, for everybody listening, you know, grow up. Power skating is a well known name. I mean, most of you have seen him online, whether you realize it or not. What about your approach do you think sets you apart and why are you having so much success with it? 

Christian Grunnah [47:54 - 53:01]: Sure. So I did mention, right. My dad taught me as, as a Kid, he was a speed skater, national champion speed skater. So he gave me a lot of those principles of weight transfer really early and right where we, where we look at the history of skating training, changing our game. Like, it really boiled down to figure skaters teaching hockey players. But I actually, I never learned from a figure skater. And I, I, I didn't learn about more, some more of those advanced, like, you know, change of edge work until I was older and not knocking it at all because I did eventually learn it. But I, I, I learned what I really utilized from two things, from him and, and, and understanding how to be as fast as possible, right? And efficient, right? Because if you're a speed skater and you're not efficient, right. You can't just, yeah, you can't just win the race on pure athleticism, right. Your technique has to be perfect, right? Otherwise the guy whose technique is perfect and is in better shape than you, he's going to beat you. So he just, like, just absolutely nailed that into me when I was younger. It took me a while to put it into practice, right? Like, I was a really bowlegged skater for a while, and then once I finished, my growth spurred and, and my muscles developed and like, my stride was as full and complete as possible. But it took me, right. Longer than most kids, you know, in general. Right. So that's the number one is, I would say, you know, I have a little bit different of an upbringing in that I have those speed skating principles in my system. But then, also, right, I played right. There's a lot of skating coaches who only have, like, a figure skating or a speed skating background. I played right. Like, I, I played with guys who ended up winning Stanley Cups and gold medals, right. Like that, that you can't separate the skating work from the game work. Like you talked about, Lee, like, it's so crucial to be able to manipulate the tool within the environment, not just the tool itself. Like, one thing I'll always say is, like, we are not in service to the technique. Like, like our game is not in service to the technique, which is why you see so many such a wide range of technical manipulation, right? In shooting, in skating and stick handling. Like, you know, will, Will. If we compare the way, like Patrick Kane skates to Connor McDavid, we compare the way Sidney Crosby skates to Connor McDavid. And I still, I love Crosby. He's one of my favorites, right? Like, and it's not the same, right? They're manipulating the environment in a way that works for them. So for me, having a Complete understanding of what it's like to be in the game environment is so crucial. And, and I bring that to my teaching and understanding. Like, hey, like I know what it's like in that situation. So I'm gonna help you and give you those tools specifically to solve the problems that you're seeing in a game. The last thing I would say is I, I kind of. So I went, I, I had an injury at a back injury that ended up putting me into coaching and I stepped away from the game for a little bit and I studied theater, I studied acting and I had the chance to go to Russia and train over there. And we did acrobatics, we did ballet, we did all kinds of like really deep different stuff. And it was, it was like so eye openening. I said to myself, I was like, man, if I had this stuff when I was playing when I was a kid, I think I would have been just that much more complete. Right. So some of the, some of the best things that we can do for ourselves as athletes is look outside of the game and don't. And I don't even just mean like, look at other games. I look outside of the game, look out, look at what are things that, in your life or, or in your environment that really interests you. How can you take those into your, the way that you play the game? Right. Because some of our favorite things as, as fans is to like you said, compare players, right. Like you just, you really, you, you watch the game and you're like, wow, the move that that guy just made is, is nothing like what that other guy just did. And that's, that's so, what's so incredibly beautiful about our game? It's like there's such a wide variation in how these players create opportunities for themselves in the way that they move. So if you can learn multiple ways to move outside of and, and think of, right. Your body and space outside of hockey, how is that going to translate onto the ice? To me that, that has a massive effect in a player's again, mind, body, connection, but also their proprioception, which is, right. Your yourself in space. Like how are you seeing or feeling yourself in that environment? 

Christie Casciano [53:01 - 53:26]: Right. I'm so glad you shared that because I think everybody gets caught up into my kid has to be the best hockey player. So this has to surround himself with hockey, hockey, hockey. And there are so many other interests, as you mentioned, you know, the theater, you can bring that into making a more complete kid. 

Christian Grunnah [53:26 - 53:26]: Yes. 

Christie Casciano [53:26 - 53:35]: And hockey player, you know, blend all those talents, you can learn outside of the ice and, and use them in your skating. 

Christian Grunnah [53:36 - 55:05]: Ultimately, we want the kids to have fun, right? Like, we, we can sit here and talk about, right, the percentages of players that, that only make it pro, that only make it ncaa, that. Right. We can sit there and we know the numbers. It's. It's slim to none. So what we want is these, these players to be able to get on the ice, have fun, that the fun comes in confidence. If we're not confident, how are we gonna have fun? Right there? There's no way we're going to be chasing the game. Right? And this is coming back full circle. Yeah, right. We're going to be chasing the game. We're going to be running around like a chicken with our head cut off, and we're not really playing. Right? We're not really playing hockey. We're just going out there, we're getting a workout, and we're guessing. Right? So understanding that once I have the confidence to move the, the best way possible for me so that I can be effective for me, for my teammates, because it is a team game, I can't just play in a bubble. I can't just play like this. How, how that translates for each player is going to be a little bit different. But what really matters is, can you get yourself to a place where, again, I don't have to think about what I'm doing anymore with my feet. If I can get to a place where I can do every single thing possible to, to move in this environment super effectively, no matter what level I get to, I'm going to have fun. I'm going to have fun. So if I can learn how to skate the best, I'm gonna be effective in some manner or form in that game. 

Christie Casciano [55:06 - 55:07]: Very nice. Very nice. 

Lee MJ Elias [55:07 - 55:12]: I'll say it too. If you're not having fun, you're done. There's no point. Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [55:13 - 55:18]: Well, there. First of all, I guess the question, where do people find you? If. 

Christian Grunnah [55:18 - 56:24]: Yeah, sure. So it's like you got my handle here at Power skating, right? I tried to make it really easy. I started my business about eight years ago. I had worked for others for about six, seven years before I started my own business. And I just thought to myself, when I, when I, when I jumped on Instagram, which eight years ago. Doesn't sound like that long ago, but think about what Instagram looked like eight years ago. It's not, it's not like what it is now. And that's a whole nother conversation. But I tried to make it easy. I was like, okay, let's just, let's just make it as easy as possible. So if you go on Instagram, social media, look up power skating, you'll find me. But also one of the easiest ways is just look up GPS hockey, right? So like, I tried to make it really simple too, right. GPS is a really easy thing to, to remember, right. And luckily my last name, Grana Power skating, comes out to a real easy, you know, thing to remember there. So GPS Hockey, power skating, you'll find me. But yeah, because my last name, unless I spell it out for you, it's really hard to, to see it if you're listening on a podcast. So just look up GPS hockey, look up power skating on Instagram, you'll find me. 

Christie Casciano [56:25 - 56:25]: Excellent. 

Lee MJ Elias [56:26 - 56:44]: Christian, I've got one final question that, yeah, I know our audience will appreciate. There's a lot of clinics out there, man. There's a lot of things for you to pay for and show up to. What are the red flags for power skating clinics that parents should be on the lookout for? 600 people signed up for one session. 

Christie Casciano [56:44 - 56:44]: Yeah. 

Christian Grunnah [56:44 - 57:42]: And that I think that is, that is certainly one of them, right. We don't want any more than like 30 kids on the ice. It's tough, right? Like you're, you're just not going to get the reps. You know, a lot of, a lot of parents think about again, oh, the coaching, right. What's the coach ratio? Well, that's important for sure. But I think what's most important is like, are you being given quality coaching from no matter who's on the ice? Like, are you, is your, is your child being given instruction? Right. Not personal instruction, again, that's one on one stuff, but instruction that actually is going to be relatable to them as a kid, as a player, are they going to be able to translate what I'm communicating to them into an action? Right? So that's the first thing. It's like, can, can you find a coach and a clinic where that coach is able to communicate right. Verbally and right visually? 

Lee MJ Elias [57:42 - 57:45]: That's a big part of the value. It's big part of what you're paying for. 

Christian Grunnah [57:45 - 1:00:23]: To me, like, like, it's as tough as this is because there is a little bit of a push back on this now. Like with all the different ways we have to train, it's like, but specifically if we're learning how to skate for a technique, if you don't have someone that is demonstrating it as well as they're able to verbalize it, the kid is it's not going to connect. We are. That's like part of our human nature, right. We mimic one another, right. We see someone moving in a certain way. We're gonna go, oh, I'm gonna try to move that way. Not to say that I need the kids to move exactly like me, but if I don't put. Do a good job demoing, it's not going to happen. So be wary of, like, you know, the. The older skating coach without someone to at least demo for them. Right. For the kids, how it should look. Right? That's. That's number one. Yes. The numbers, I would say, are number two. And one of the other things, too, that's like there. There sometimes are skating clinics that aren't really skating clinics. Like, it's really. It's really just another hockey clinic. Right. There's kind of a divergence. It's like, here's only technique, here's only hockey. Try your best to find one that has the technique that also leads into the hockey. So we do both in the same camp, right. We learn the technique, why we should do it when we should do it, and boom, it's going to be a. It's going to be a good camp. Yeah. You can. You can find me. I. I travel as much as I can from March through August. I also do. Right. Like association clinics where people can bring me in, hire me out for their club, for their team, and honestly, that's. That's one of the best ways to do it. The one thing I would say is this. Private lessons aren't usually the answer for hockey players. They can be right for. For some, but you're in a team environment as it is, right? Yeah. Again, we're not in service to the technique. The technique is in service to us in the way that we play. Right. So be careful of getting in the mindset of, if my kid just does more private lessons, everything's going to be good. Sometimes I have found that kids really don't respond to private lessons very well. Right. They feel like. Like they're in a. A bubble. They're being judged. They're not being given, you know, you know, the proper space to actually explore, experiment. Sometimes they want, right. That little eye of criticism to be put away. Right. Because in school, somebody's not over your shoulder all the time going, like, oh, did you get it right? Did you get it right? 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:23 - 1:00:24]: Did you get it right? 

Christian Grunnah [1:00:25 - 1:00:40]: That to me, is sometimes I'm like, look like, give your kid the space. Yeah. To try something which is like, again, right. Get out on stick and puck. If they go to stick and puck, encourage them try to do something without the puck for at least five minutes. 

Christie Casciano [1:00:41 - 1:00:54]: And I've also found when the kids do it with their buddies, they encourage each other. So, you know, when they're. They're not in that, you know, if they're just doing it for fun, hey, let's work on this. Let's practice. Practice this. They encourage each other. 

Christian Grunnah [1:00:54 - 1:00:56]: Absolutely. Yes. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:00:57 - 1:01:10]: No, I love it. Christian, I always say I find private lessons are okay for refinement momentarily refinement, but they're not a solution for the game. Kristen, you just said it right. Iron. Or I guess in this case, steel sharpensteel. Not iron sharpens iron. 

Christian Grunnah [1:01:10 - 1:01:10]: Right, Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:01:10 - 1:01:18]: Like you see the best at any sport, they search out the other bests in the sport because the rising tide lifts all, shifts lives. Right? 

Christian Grunnah [1:01:18 - 1:01:19]: I love it. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:01:19 - 1:01:44]: Christian, this has been a fantastic episode and there's no way the audience is walking our way without some diamonds and and gold from you here. I, I can't thank you enough for joining us. And for the audience, Christian's gonna join us on a quick ride to the rink too, for your kids. So parents, if you're listening to this, I know you're like, yeah, that what that guy said. We're also gonna get you something for him to talk to your kids on the way to the rink. But Chris, I gotta tell you again, thanks you so much for being on our great. 

Christian Grunnah [1:01:44 - 1:01:47]: Thank you guys. This is such a pleasure. I appreciate you. Thank you. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:01:47 - 1:02:29]: Thank you. And again, that's gonna do it. If you've got questions for Christian for us, email us team atourkids playhockey.com or use the link accompanying this episode in the description. Tap on it. Let us know your name, where you're from. You can text us a message. We love hearing from you, but that's gonna do it for this edition of our Kids Play Hockey. For Christie. For Christian, I'm Lee. We'll see you next time. Everybody. Skate on. We hope you enjoyed this edition of our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our Kids Play hockey dot com. Also make sure to check out our children's book When Hockey stops@when hockeystops.com. it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. 

Christian Grunnah [1:02:29 - 1:02:30]: We're very proud of it. 

Lee MJ Elias [1:02:30 - 1:02:34]: But thanks so much for listening to this edition of our kids play hockey and we'll see you on the next episode. 

Christian Grunnah [1:02:38 - 1:02:39]: Sa.