Aug. 24, 2024

So You Want to Coach in the NCAA? A Conversation with Coach Pete Whitney

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Season 1 Our Kids Play Hockey

In this episode of Our Kids Play Hockey, we’re thrilled to welcome back Coach Pete Whitney to dive deep into the world of NCAA coaching. Whether you’re an aspiring coach, a parent, or simply curious about what it takes to climb the coaching ladder in college hockey, this episode is packed with valuable insights.

Key Points Discussed:

1.Passion and Mentality:

•The mindset required to transition from youth coaching to the NCAA level, including the importance of passion, patience, and willingness to work hard without immediate rewards.

2.Ego vs. Confidence:

•Understanding the critical difference between ego and confidence in coaching. Confidence empowers you to make tough decisions and grow, while ego can hinder your development.

3.Building a Coaching Career:

•The challenges and rewards of starting as an assistant coach and the importance of gaining experience and understanding the culture of the school and team.

4.Communication and Leadership:

•The necessity of being a great communicator, both with your players and fellow coaches. Pete emphasizes the importance of open lines of communication and the ability to manage different personalities.

5.Balancing Personal and Professional Life:

•The impact of coaching on family life, and the need for strong support systems at home. Pete and Lee discuss how to navigate the challenges of being a committed coach and a present family member.

6.Developing a Coaching Philosophy:

•Creating a strong “why” behind your coaching. A successful coaching career isn’t just about winning championships but about fostering a positive team culture and personal growth for both coaches and players.

7.Navigating Challenges:

•Handling difficult conversations with players, managing time commitments, and making the tough decisions that come with higher-level coaching.

Coaching in the NCAA is about more than just understanding the game; it’s about being a lifelong learner, building strong relationships, and creating a positive culture that goes beyond the rink. Whether you’re a current coach or dreaming of one day stepping behind the bench, this episode offers essential advice for anyone looking to succeed in this demanding yet rewarding field.

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00:52 - Coaching Mentality for NCAA Success

10:31 - Building a Strong Team Culture

23:26 - Coaching for People, Not Glory

27:22 - Balancing Coaching and Personal Life

32:39 - Balancing Coaching and Family Commitments

43:39 - Building Team Culture and Trust

53:33 - Assistant Coach Dynamics and Ego Management

01:00:02 - Navigating Assistant Coach Dynamics and Relationships

01:05:54 - Navigating Difficult Conversations With Confidence

WEBVTT

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Hello hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey.

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Today's topic is so you want a coach in the NCAA.

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There's only one guest that we could bring in, one person that we've had on the show so many times.

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He easily holds the record for longest term guest on our kids play hockey.

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That man is pete whitney.

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I'm going to welcome him onto the show today, but I'm also going to welcome back our good friend, christy casciano burns he was abroad, she was abroad and now she's back.

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She came home.

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She came home to us back on the air, christy first off, great to have you back yes, thank you apologize for the dog barking in the background.

00:00:43.645 --> 00:00:48.994
It's raining very heavily here and he gets upset by that, so I'll mute myself in time.

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I'm going to mute right now, you start us off.

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I will.

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I think everyone knows this is a pet-friendly show we know, which I love, which is just about what you know, what aspiring coaches have to think about in order to get themselves to the next level, which can arm you with some really interesting thought processes when you're playing the game.

00:01:32.546 --> 00:01:34.132
So, pete, happy to have you back.

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Thank you, it's great to be back and I'm enjoying your mug as ever.

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Well, listen, if you're on the show three times, you get a free mug.

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I believe this is your fourth appearance on the show, so we'll have to figure out some other gifts to get you when you get to six.

00:01:47.971 --> 00:01:53.203
All right, all right, but yeah, let's start with you here.

00:01:53.203 --> 00:01:54.948
Man, this is a topic that was something you wanted to talk about.

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There's a lot of different directions we could go with, but why don't we start with just the mentality needed if you want to coach at a higher level?

00:02:03.231 --> 00:02:13.508
Right Again, a lot of coaches at the youth level, volunteer coaches, but I have had many coaches and this should be no surprise to the audience come up to me and say hey, how do I get to a higher level?

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How do I get to a point where I'm paid for this or professional at this?

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What do you think is the first part of the mentality of doing this?

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To know.

00:02:21.182 --> 00:02:22.747
Okay, this is something I want to pursue.

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Well, I think you're talking about a.

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You're talking about a passion, right?

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So you're, you're, let's take that youth coach, you're around the game and you love it, and you're, let's say, you're coaching peewees for your town organization.

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The thought is so now, how do I, how do I, how do I advance what?

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What can I do?

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Um, and honestly, the the short answer is, early on, really be ready to work for nothing for a while.

00:02:53.526 --> 00:03:33.907
It's very true, because the and that's one of, that's one of the things Lee is typically now the, the assistant coach is a former college player graduate wants to step in to a salary, in some cases a high salary, if you're talking Division I, but with playing experience, but not really any experience around team culture, about the X's and O's of and this is the X's and O's of do I know where I'm going to go?

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Am I going to know the school?

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Like I got to know the nature of the school, I got to know their strengths.

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I got to know what courses they offer.

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I got to know what tuition is.

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I got to know what you need as a GPA to get in there as a student.

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I have to know all those little things that are the details that, again, throughout coaching, details are what matters, and so those are the things that have to happen.

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And then, above that, you also have to realize too which a lot of guys and gals I think don't when they first step in is you actually have to take a test through the NCAA so you know all the rules and regulations so that you can get through compliance.

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So there's, there's that piece of it too.

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So there's, that's the, I guess, uh, I guess the last, the least fun parts of it, maybe, but, uh, the, the important parts of it knowing that kind of thing, so knowing that, having that passion, connections, because sometimes it's right former players calling their old coaches, seeing if they could jump on a staff, that kind of thing.

00:04:38.379 --> 00:04:42.312
Is it best to start as an assistant coach when you're starting off?

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Like, let's say, there are opportunities, you know, especially women?

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Like, let's say, there are opportunities, you know, especially women's hockey.

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There are all these opportunities popping up because women's hockey is growing More, colleges are putting together teams and they're looking for coaches.

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Is it best to start off when you're starting off as a higher level coach, to start off as an assistant and learn under someone?

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Or do you think, take that bold move and go ahead?

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If there's a coaching job open, go for it.

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What's the best suggestion?

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What's the best path?

00:05:12.264 --> 00:05:16.903
Well, I think it depends upon the individual, right, Because there's all different types of personalities.

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Not everyone has a type A personality, so you have to look at that piece there.

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I mean, for me you have to have had some kind of experience coaching at some level prior to that.

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I think, if you want to be your best wife and I've never baked a cake in my life, but you know what I'm just gonna go read a recipe somewhere and throw it all together and then try to figure out why it didn't work.

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Well, it didn't work because nowhere did I realize that you have to let the cake cool before you before you frost it, you can't take it out of the pan too early, but all those kinds of things.

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So I think having actual life experience in anything you do is a benefit.

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Christy, this man has made a cake before.

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I can tell by the way he's describing the cake.

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Yeah.

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So it's better to bake the cake as a sous chef, so to speak, learn under somebody who you really expect and admire, or should you go ahead and take that bold move and, if you've got what you think is pretty much enough experience in the um in the lower levels, to go for it?

00:06:30.255 --> 00:06:31.577
Or is that a bad move?

00:06:32.139 --> 00:06:36.547
no, I would never tell anyone, uh, not to try, I mean so.

00:06:36.547 --> 00:06:47.011
So now you start to talk a little bit about a topic that I enjoy throwing in is, uh, confidence versus ego yeah it, it's a great.

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I love this.

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Right, I mean confidence, chrissy, is it's a feeling of self-assurance, right?

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That comes from you having appreciation that you know your own abilities and your own and your qualities, whereas ego is a sense of self-esteem or self-importance, and that's the biggest stumbling block that I have seen in head coaches and in individuals trying to become assistant coaches understanding and being comfortable with knowing.

00:07:18.130 --> 00:07:25.451
It's okay to know you don't know everything I love that and I love that you're bringing it up for multiple reasons.

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One this transcends just coaching.

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Obviously you could you could apply this to being a player too, absolutely.

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But one of the things is this I think when you're a young coach and it's weird because my coaching journey was really backwards, I started as a head coach at my early twenties there was a lot of ego in that time.

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I have no problem telling everybody that I mean I felt like I was a king.

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It didn't mean I did my players wrong or I did anything wrong in that front, but I needed to work on myself a bit more.

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Now I always say I was really happy with my experience as a head coach, but I also know and I knew this coming out of it, man, I got a lot to learn and I almost immediately dropped the ego and started becoming an assistant, kind of, for the purposes of this program and I searched out great head coaches that could teach me something.

00:08:12.122 --> 00:08:18.622
And I've said this on the show many times and I know you and I talk about this a lot and I think this speaks to what you just said.

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Good coaches know everything.

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Great coaches know they know nothing.

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It is an evolving science.

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Every year and, trust me, when you think you got it, something's going to change, especially when you're dealing with college students.

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And look, here's the truth about college coaching too you get older every year.

00:08:39.721 --> 00:08:42.008
The students stay pretty much the same age.

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All right.

00:08:42.990 --> 00:08:45.236
And again, when I started, students were usually 18 to 22.

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Now it's more 20 to 24.

00:08:45.500 --> 00:08:45.971
All right, and again, when I started, students were usually 18 to 22.

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Now it's more 20 to 24.

00:08:47.885 --> 00:08:54.630
All right, but you're dealing with a younger generation, and I'm going to say it again Every year, they stay the same age and you're getting older.

00:08:54.630 --> 00:08:59.851
So the way you did it 10 years ago might not work today.

00:08:59.851 --> 00:09:11.092
Aspects of it may work Right, but this is where I think we talk about the ego and that to be a great coach, you really have to be a student and you have to yearn for the knowledge of the game.

00:09:11.092 --> 00:09:12.904
And again, this is true for players too.

00:09:12.904 --> 00:09:18.573
It's just a little bit of a different process, I think, when you're coaching and managing personalities and other things too.

00:09:18.614 --> 00:09:27.384
I wrote down here Pete I wanted to bring this up too that I think one of the big misnomers that sometimes young coaches have when they jump into an NCAA system is.

00:09:27.384 --> 00:09:33.024
Well, I'm just going to do the hockey man that that's part of it, but that is not the big picture.

00:09:33.024 --> 00:09:41.010
I mean, your job is to graduate these kids right Maybe I shouldn't call them kids Right, but that's, you know, really should be one of the prerequisites.

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Is that your, your goal is to get them through college or to the next level effectively.

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Right, the hockey is part of it, but that's not the whole plan.

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You have got to understand recruiting.

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You have to understand, like you said, pete, the aura of that school.

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What does it mean to coach at that school, which you did successfully at post-university, from really the birth of that program through many of the successes?

00:10:00.765 --> 00:10:30.649
So why don't we turn that way a little bit too, pete, and feel free to comment on anything that we talked about here, but Right, and I also, like Lee, that you brought in the fact that they're you're dealing with a lot of personalities because, as you know, pete, especially with the college age kids, you know you're dealing with all kinds of angst and you know, especially the fresh the first year students, they're trying to figure everything out, trying to figure out how to be a part of that team.

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There's a lot of nervousness.

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So there's also that aspect beyond just teaching these kids how to be great hockey players, you're also dealing with a lot of different personalities right.

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I mean, the reality is, um, as as a head coach, as an assistant coach, uh, I think in any ncaa sport you have to understand that you're in the service industry, right?

00:10:54.945 --> 00:10:57.009
right, that's a great point that's.

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That's what you're there for.

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I mean, you are there for like to see that they have the best possible experience they can have because, again, while they rotate through, depending on your career, you're the constant as a coach, right?

00:11:13.631 --> 00:11:16.902
So they only have that snippet.

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They've only got that four.

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Get rid of the covid year thing.

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They've only got four years.

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They've only got four years to have this experience.

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So your job is to give them the best opportunity within those four years to have that best experience.

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So the question is how do you develop everything from?

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You've got your off ice culture that you need to talk about.

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What are we going to be?

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Are we going to be strong academically and we're going to be really big into community service?

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We need to define that, what that is for them, our on ice culture, what are the systems and beliefs we're going to play?

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What's our playing style?

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Are we a puck possession team?

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Do we back check all the time?

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All the details that have to occur, shift in and shift out, and then, I think, finally, the locker room culture, the etiquette, cleanliness of a room, respecting each other's space, trying to make everyone belong.

00:12:06.594 --> 00:12:10.729
So, again, these are all the things that are not X's and O's.

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But I guarantee you, if you don't have these particular things in order, your X's and O's are not going to matter, because I have seen so many teams with talented players and then I watch games and I try to figure out what the heck is going on and then when you dig a little deeper and you're able to kind of talk behind the scenes, there's always something going on behind the scenes that's not X's and O's related.

00:12:37.909 --> 00:12:49.610
Right, you're so right, and I think it's so important for head coaches in particular to be great communicators and sadly I've seen coaches who aren't.

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They just assume, after your word has spoken, that everyone digests it and gets it, and that's not always the case, and when there's a lack of communication and effective leadership, the team falls apart.

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It can be pretty chaotic.

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Right, I mean honestly the the uh, redundance of the airline industry, I think is a piece that every coach should take.

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I don't ever want to assume that, uh, because I said something that you understand exactly what I said, I want to get it back from you.

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When we want to hold meetings, we need those open lines of communication because, at the end of the day, as you said that you understand exactly what I said, I want to get it back from you.

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We want to hold meetings, we need those open lines of communication because, at the end of the day, as you said, especially as a freshman coming into a program, you're looking over your shoulder everywhere.

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You're trying to fit in academically, socially, athletically, you're trying to fit in in every single corner and you need someone who can do that and not just look at you and go back to the 1970s and say figure it out, because that's not the world we live in anymore.

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And it's to me.

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I enjoy that because it makes you for me anyway, it's made me a better coach.

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That personal, that interaction, and I think the success that we were able to have in a fairly short amount of time was because we invested in the individual as much as the athlete.

00:14:12.493 --> 00:14:16.046
You know, one of the things I love that we're talking about too, from a communication standpoint.

00:14:16.046 --> 00:14:20.130
Our producer Caitlin, who has a teaching degree, wise me up to this.

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You know I used to say there's there's three or four different ways to learn and retain information, and she actually told me there's actually seven, right, and?

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And I can't list them all.

00:14:28.140 --> 00:14:31.923
But the point is, when I realized that it's like, oh wow, I have a lot to learn about communication.

00:14:31.923 --> 00:14:37.883
But the the, the bring back point here is this as a coach, especially an assistant coach, this is a role sometimes you have to play.

00:14:37.883 --> 00:14:42.591
In the big picture, People learn one of three major ways, right?

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They can read it and retain it.

00:14:43.773 --> 00:14:44.995
They can see it or retain it.

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They can hear it, retain it, and then another one would be like you have to do it to retain it.

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Man, as a coach, you got to know how your players retain information.

00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:57.831
It's not their fault if they can't read it and just figure it out.

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That's not for everybody.

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So I think part of the role of a coach, or specifically an assistant coach, is that the head coach has to obviously communicate what they want to happen broadly.

00:15:07.351 --> 00:15:10.744
But I've always found one of my roles as an assistant coach, which I really relish.

00:15:10.744 --> 00:15:11.686
Assistant coaching now.

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Where I'm at in my life for lots of reasons we'll go into later is the ability to say, okay, I need to talk to these four players because I know they need a little more support in terms of how they're going to get this.

00:15:22.225 --> 00:15:27.673
Or even telling a player like a freshman listen, you're a visual learner, right, you got to do it to learn it.

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Don't be first in line and try and impress everybody.

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Go fourth or fifth right, See the drill a couple of times and then execute right.

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Little little tiny intricacies like that.

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That's part of the people process.

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We can call it a guess of being a coach.

00:15:43.285 --> 00:15:46.402
Um, go ahead, pete, comment on that, because then I want to.

00:15:46.501 --> 00:15:53.850
I have some notes here I want to dive into as well yeah, no, I, I agree with that 100, and what really what you're talking about is I.

00:15:53.850 --> 00:16:03.092
I have to know that individual absolutely because, again, into, sadly, into today's world, there is a lot going on in these kids lives.

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I mean there's everything from, uh, the nuclear family to, in some cases, uh, no, parents, right.

00:16:11.147 --> 00:16:21.328
So those things happening away, I gotta know what, like, what is in your head on a daily basis, right, right.

00:16:21.328 --> 00:16:23.340
So those are the conversations that you have to have.

00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:28.331
Again, that goes back to, like I say you're in the service industry and you're really a personnel manager.

00:16:28.331 --> 00:16:45.145
I think, first and foremost because until you can get everyone on board, understanding and knowing that you actually care what is going on in their lives, they're not going to be able to perform for you or definitely not for each other, because they're still going to be caught up with those other things.

00:16:45.145 --> 00:16:54.808
So the meetings of, like what's going on, like I, I know I knew who you know kid had a had, um, he was an uncle, it was his first.

00:16:54.808 --> 00:17:04.702
His brother had a little baby and the kid was so excited about that, but he was, he was really like chirpy in the line and all that and it seemed as if he wasn't really paying attention.

00:17:04.702 --> 00:17:07.828
So pull him aside, have a quick conversation.

00:17:07.828 --> 00:17:08.510
Hey, what's going on?

00:17:08.510 --> 00:17:16.218
I'm just, I'm just all jacked up because, um, you know, I had a uh, I'm an uncle, I'm an uncle for the first time.

00:17:16.218 --> 00:17:16.819
This is amazing.

00:17:17.301 --> 00:17:21.857
And then what I did brought the guys together and just sort of announced it to the group.

00:17:21.857 --> 00:17:26.346
Right, they gave him a little stick tap and everybody was excited and we all kind of moved on.

00:17:26.346 --> 00:17:27.950
So we shared in his joy.

00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:31.522
But now it was now he was all part, it was, everyone was part of it.

00:17:31.522 --> 00:17:33.429
It wasn't like what were they talking about there?

00:17:33.429 --> 00:17:33.930
What's he said?

00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:35.082
What's, what's going on?

00:17:35.082 --> 00:17:50.586
So, knowing your, knowing your players, knowing their life situations, it's hard, like I'm sorry, but it's it's difficult, like you, especially as an assistant, if you jump on board with a team and you think, ah, it's summer, it's great, I can take my foot off the gas.

00:17:50.586 --> 00:17:54.547
I mean, that's your golden opportunity to get to know your guys.

00:17:54.988 --> 00:17:55.208
Right.

00:17:55.890 --> 00:17:57.092
Right and they want to hear from you too.

00:17:57.813 --> 00:17:59.520
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we did.

00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:00.962
I did that on a weekly basis.

00:18:00.962 --> 00:18:03.125
I would make our phone calls, we'd have Zoom meetings.

00:18:03.125 --> 00:18:10.602
I want to get caught up on what's like, what's going on, so then when we get back to campus we could continue certain situations.

00:18:10.602 --> 00:18:37.167
Maybe that needed to be talked about and it can be that whole thing with the again we had on the back of our all of our apparel warmup apparel something said one family, said one family, and to me that that resonates with every player if you're actually, you know, walking the walk right, right.

00:18:37.188 --> 00:18:44.107
And I think too, coaches need to understand, especially at the high level, if you're just getting into it, every Every year can look different.

00:18:44.107 --> 00:18:59.832
You know, I'm thinking about my daughter's college years and you know, first year, great senior class, such wonderful glue for that team, they leave and that important dynamic is gone.

00:18:59.832 --> 00:19:01.987
Now you're starting over again.

00:19:01.987 --> 00:19:04.788
You got a new crop of kids coming in.

00:19:04.788 --> 00:19:09.726
You know, some of the personalities don't mesh Different philosophies.

00:19:09.726 --> 00:19:18.554
So how, I mean how do coaches keep that consistency, especially when it fluctuates so much?

00:19:18.554 --> 00:19:36.401
I mean you can have one year where you're golden, you know you're champions, and then the next year you're you're, you're golden, you know you're champions, and then the next year you look totally different well, when I was coaching, my goal was not to create a team, my goal was to create a program.

00:19:37.201 --> 00:19:41.848
Okay, and the difference between the two is exactly what you're talking about.

00:19:41.848 --> 00:19:46.954
In a program, you have a certain culture that you set.

00:19:46.954 --> 00:19:53.773
To me, culture is the, honestly, the lowest denomination of behavior that's acceptable to the group.

00:19:53.773 --> 00:20:01.643
So the higher your standards and the better your culture is, it's easier to continue that going through.

00:20:01.643 --> 00:20:03.528
And that may be community service.

00:20:03.528 --> 00:20:12.943
That again, that may be all those little things that we do in an effort to bring us together away from the rink which will make a difference inside that locker room.

00:20:12.943 --> 00:20:14.808
So, creating an actual program.

00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:24.587
Again, plenty of teams, while this team look at a roster this team is loaded with players, but they really don't win much, or they don't win when they need to.

00:20:24.587 --> 00:20:26.211
So why?

00:20:26.211 --> 00:20:35.432
So it always goes back to that culture, to that feeling of belonging that we all crave as human beings.

00:20:35.432 --> 00:20:38.762
We all want to belong and we all want to feel valued.

00:20:38.762 --> 00:20:40.365
So how do you do that?

00:20:40.365 --> 00:20:50.663
And that's the trick in athletics right, because that 20 goal score has a different value than the fourth line.

00:20:50.663 --> 00:20:52.407
We'll call it penalty killer.

00:20:52.407 --> 00:21:06.108
However, both are equally important, so you have to understand that as a coach and be able to communicate that to those players, that everyone has a role, just like that player that's in and out of the lineup who is.

00:21:06.108 --> 00:21:14.684
Their role is to constantly push someone else in an effort to get into the lineup, which makes everyone better.

00:21:15.266 --> 00:21:21.900
So, yeah, pieces and I think a lot of coaches fail um, in that regard.

00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:22.942
They don't.

00:21:22.942 --> 00:21:34.420
A lot of times they'll treat their top line players as the stars and that fourth line doesn't always feel as important, like, oh, I'm on the fourth line, that means I'm not good enough.

00:21:34.420 --> 00:21:43.955
And I think coaches fail to make each kid, each player feel like they're a valuable part of that team.

00:21:43.955 --> 00:21:51.231
And that's the difference between successful coaching and coaches who, just you know, collect the paycheck.

00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.807
Yeah, listen, I agree, and the reality is it's hard.

00:21:55.807 --> 00:22:09.782
But at that time, I think when I was coaching between Division One, two and Three, I think there were 165 NCAA men's programs in the country.

00:22:09.782 --> 00:22:21.846
So for the seven years that I coached, I took pride in the fact that I had a job that only 164 other people in the entire country have.

00:22:21.846 --> 00:22:25.991
So I'm going to give this thing 100, right?

00:22:25.991 --> 00:22:27.714
Uh, I owe the job.

00:22:27.779 --> 00:22:36.306
The job doesn't owe me right that's a great statement, right there, you know that is great, right, that's out I, I, I've got it.

00:22:36.306 --> 00:22:38.550
I was just like I make notes anytime I go.

00:22:39.231 --> 00:22:40.213
Yes, that's my.

00:22:40.213 --> 00:22:41.803
It used to be in the locker room.

00:22:42.263 --> 00:22:50.891
Put that one up um, you know, pete, one of the things I love about our friendship and we and we text a lot is the clear passion, not just for the game.

00:22:50.891 --> 00:22:57.327
I mean, you obviously have passion for the game if you're if you're coaching at a high level right, but it's the passion for the people what we're talking about.

00:22:57.327 --> 00:23:05.372
Like you and I have such a deep care for our players, and I think that makes all the difference, and I think that a lot of young coaches it's not.

00:23:05.372 --> 00:23:06.923
Actually, this isn't limited to young coaches Now.

00:23:06.943 --> 00:23:07.526
I'm thinking about them.

00:23:07.526 --> 00:23:10.040
They're chasing glory, all right, and look.

00:23:10.040 --> 00:23:10.843
Glory is great.

00:23:10.843 --> 00:23:12.848
Winning a championship is awesome.

00:23:12.848 --> 00:23:15.021
I would never, ever downplay it.

00:23:15.723 --> 00:23:20.453
But if that's your goal, you're actually shortchanging yourself pretty heavily.

00:23:20.453 --> 00:23:23.486
Right, that is not the primary goal.

00:23:23.486 --> 00:23:46.351
It's never been the primary goal when I coach, because because people are going to think I'm insane for saying that I have a higher goal, which is what Pete is talking about the culture as a standard, the people knowing that I care about them, that they know I care about them and that that's also returned, and that there is a devotion to making them a better version of themselves.

00:23:46.351 --> 00:23:50.671
That thought process will breed results.

00:23:50.671 --> 00:24:04.144
Championships are a result of that and you come to learn pretty quickly, I think, in the coaching journey, when you pursue that kind of infinite goal, that while championships are great, not the only thing, it's not the reason you're here.

00:24:04.144 --> 00:24:06.888
If that's the only reason you're here, you're going to bounce around a lot.

00:24:06.888 --> 00:24:10.968
You might not last too long, all right, you've got to have a higher calling, an infinite game.

00:24:10.968 --> 00:24:16.087
And I'm telling you right now, everyone listening, and you could bring this all the way down to the might level.

00:24:16.087 --> 00:24:20.609
I mean, I really mean that there is a power and enjoyment.

00:24:20.609 --> 00:24:27.260
There's not enough words.

00:24:27.260 --> 00:24:32.260
I could picture that when a group of people believe in each other and they can look at each other in any moment and just know I got your back and I know you have mine.

00:24:33.262 --> 00:24:44.186
Not only is that something we need more of today, but it is a miraculous moment and I have been on the championship bench when, pete, you just gave the example.

00:24:44.186 --> 00:24:54.000
We have to ride our top level players and we have to sit, unfortunately, the bottom players, but there's an understanding from those players that this is my role at the moment.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:07.171
I need to make sure that the team succeeds right, the cultivation of that is is a gift first off, but to me like that's the why behind you doing this right.

00:25:07.171 --> 00:25:09.548
So I'm going to kind of spin this back into a question.

00:25:09.980 --> 00:25:20.690
If you want to get into coaching at a higher level, you don't need to fully have a grip on this immediately, but this is something you're going to have to want to develop in addition to your knowledge of the game.

00:25:20.690 --> 00:25:28.267
There has to be a why beyond just well, I want to win an NCAA championship and again you can go to the Stanley cup.

00:25:28.267 --> 00:25:34.880
You can watch Paul Maurice winning last year and the way he talks about his gratitude to everyone and everything that led to that moment.

00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.527
It wasn't just the moment that he was focused on.

00:25:37.527 --> 00:25:45.611
So, again, bringing that back to a question, the why that's where I'm leading towards, pete is you have to have a have a why, a really strong why.

00:25:45.611 --> 00:25:50.630
I think, if you want to dive into coaching and I think maybe we should talk about how do you identify what that why is?

00:25:51.921 --> 00:26:00.773
Yeah, I think part of the issue is today, with the younger players coming out of college and wanting to be coaches in.

00:26:00.773 --> 00:26:06.268
That success you're talking about is they're kind of a victim of the current society, right?

00:26:06.268 --> 00:26:13.542
Because we have things called instagram, snapchat, everything is instant gratification.

00:26:13.542 --> 00:26:23.284
Now, for me, honestly, one of the things that has really really helped me over the over the years was the fact that one of my my background and you know I've talked about a little bit was in horticulture.

00:26:23.284 --> 00:26:33.034
So there are certain plants that you plant and it might take them four to six years for that crop to come in.

00:26:33.034 --> 00:26:38.271
So you learn patience and you have to care for it and nurture it and some fall off along the way.

00:26:38.271 --> 00:26:51.964
So there's a lot of always want, a lot of parallels between between the two, but having the ability to have a set goal is the key.

00:26:51.964 --> 00:26:55.851
So you're a player and you say you know what?

00:26:55.851 --> 00:27:05.112
I'm going to score 20 goals this year and you're the new assistant coach coach, we're winning the whole thing this year, okay?

00:27:05.112 --> 00:27:13.051
So my question to both of those individuals is so if you don't score 20 goals, are you a failure?

00:27:13.051 --> 00:27:13.732
Right?

00:27:13.732 --> 00:27:16.843
If you don't win the championship, are you a failure?

00:27:16.843 --> 00:27:25.894
Your success, wherever it may be, will be a byproduct of all the other details that you take care of.

00:27:25.894 --> 00:27:44.972
Because, again, in today's instant world not that you would, uh, be necessarily great at it, meaning me, but it could probably go online and figure out how to coach lacrosse or soccer or any other sport, just like anyone could figure out how to coach hockey.

00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:54.617
No-transcript, it's so true.

00:27:54.617 --> 00:28:02.237
I I just I just feel like no, knowing yourself, like when I got into this, I was so excited about that.

00:28:02.237 --> 00:28:06.085
I finally it was a goal of mine to become an NCAA coach.

00:28:06.085 --> 00:28:07.688
That was a goal of mine.

00:28:07.688 --> 00:28:14.724
Once I became that NCAA coach, my goal was for me to try to be the best NCAA coach I could be.

00:28:16.508 --> 00:28:36.238
So that's what I pursued, and any other success that I was fortunate to have along the way was simply a byproduct of me focusing on that, not on the prize, so to speak, and I think that's important as you're learning and growing, especially as a younger assistant coach.

00:28:36.238 --> 00:28:42.223
As you know, as you get to the higher levels, as you get to the pro levels, it's a different animal.

00:28:42.223 --> 00:28:55.702
That's one of the beautiful things, honestly, about coaching at like the Division II, the Division III level, because some of your players, you know will have the opportunity to go play some minor pro, probably afterwards, but the reality is this is it.

00:28:55.702 --> 00:28:59.741
You can create something for these individuals and stay connected.

00:28:59.741 --> 00:29:03.769
I mean, I'm still connected to players that played for me seven years ago.

00:29:03.769 --> 00:29:09.688
We were on group chats and we do all that kind of stuff because we actually do care about each other.

00:29:10.796 --> 00:29:27.704
You know it's funny, you bring that up, I, I and for some reason you just remind me of this I had a player get inducted into the hall of fame for the school that I coached at and he mentioned my name in his acceptance speaking and he called me afterwards, and this was 12, 13 years ago.

00:29:27.704 --> 00:29:30.940
You know, the connection is there.

00:29:30.940 --> 00:29:42.469
And look, I, while I appreciate he mentioned me, the connection is what I was most impressed about it was that, wow, he, he, he still feels that bond that we had when he was a player and he's a father now.

00:29:42.469 --> 00:29:47.825
Like, he's well out of college, right, um, I mean, he's in his mid-30s, it's, it's.

00:29:47.825 --> 00:29:51.557
That is something that transcends any championship, any win.

00:29:52.018 --> 00:29:57.240
Um, and I'll tell you this too, pete is at the pro level and I've been very blessed to coach it at a semi-pro level.

00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:04.661
Um, you know, it's really easy to say or have people say, well, look, you know the wins and losses, now they really matter, you're getting paid to win.

00:30:04.661 --> 00:30:08.053
Yeah, it's true, but it doesn't change my approach.

00:30:08.053 --> 00:30:11.502
Like, you still care about the people, you still got to put the time in right.

00:30:11.502 --> 00:30:17.306
I think the difference at the pro level is, you know, you can move players in and out a little very easily, right?

00:30:17.306 --> 00:30:30.741
I mean, you can, you can form a roster that you want and guys will be there for 10 years, uh, but it doesn't change the culture piece, it doesn't change the personnel piece, and you can learn that really well in the collegiate situation because of the rotation of the players.

00:30:30.741 --> 00:30:37.541
Um, one thing I want to dive into now we're talking about the joys of coaching, uh, but there's other things you got to be prepared for.

00:30:37.541 --> 00:30:40.066
Um, we're talking about the joys of coaching, but there's other things you got to be prepared for.

00:30:40.066 --> 00:30:41.969
If you're the higher level you coach, the harder some things have, right.

00:30:41.969 --> 00:30:54.698
Something's come across Like, for example, cutting a player is not easy and it never gets easier, right, whether it's NCAA or pro, you're at some point going to have to sit down with a young man or woman and say you are off the team.

00:30:54.698 --> 00:30:58.306
All right, it is really hard to do, all right.

00:30:58.306 --> 00:31:00.377
That's one thing the time commitment.

00:31:00.377 --> 00:31:08.842
I can tell you this right now and I'll be very I'll be very black and white about this.

00:31:08.922 --> 00:31:20.615
When I had children, I realized rather quickly that I'm either going to be a great coach or a great dad, but I don't think I can do both at the same time at the speed that I'm going Now.

00:31:20.615 --> 00:31:21.941
It doesn't mean I left coaching.

00:31:21.941 --> 00:31:27.211
What it means is that I had to rethink how I approach coaching to make sure that I'm still a good father.

00:31:27.211 --> 00:31:35.401
All right, because I will tell you now and there are many coaches that have had to make this decision, and it's not easy you are away a lot.

00:31:35.401 --> 00:31:37.321
You are completely dedicated to your team.

00:31:37.321 --> 00:31:39.297
Your easy you are away a lot.

00:31:39.297 --> 00:31:40.400
You are completely dedicated to your team.

00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:41.403
Your weekends, if you're in college, are gone.

00:31:41.403 --> 00:31:41.744
All right.

00:31:41.744 --> 00:31:50.000
I mean, you can quickly be in a position where your kids and I have had a lot of coaches tell me this your kids will look at you and say why do you care about that team more than you care about me or us?

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.165
All right, and that's look.

00:31:53.165 --> 00:31:55.717
This is a decision every coach needs to make individually.

00:31:55.876 --> 00:32:04.909
I was very fortunate that I created a life for myself where I could come and go with teams and touch and do the team building piece that I do, but largely be there for my children.

00:32:04.909 --> 00:32:06.590
That was my choice, all right.

00:32:06.590 --> 00:32:10.566
Also, the lifestyle that my wife and I have allowed for, that Right.

00:32:10.566 --> 00:32:16.123
That's not everyone's case, but that is a decision when you have children.

00:32:16.123 --> 00:32:18.528
That will quickly come up.

00:32:18.528 --> 00:32:20.760
Other things, too is the time commitment.

00:32:20.760 --> 00:32:21.523
I just talked about this.

00:32:21.575 --> 00:32:25.205
I can tell you, pete, the moment that coaching became my life.

00:32:25.205 --> 00:32:27.021
This is actually kind of out of a movie.

00:32:27.021 --> 00:32:37.458
I was sitting at a desk in a suit, working in almost a sales job, and an opportunity came up and I realized I'm going to have to volunteer to do this for free.

00:32:37.458 --> 00:32:38.298
All right, this coaching job.

00:32:38.298 --> 00:32:39.267
And an opportunity came up and I realized I'm going to have to volunteer to do this for free.

00:32:39.267 --> 00:32:41.458
All right, this coaching job.

00:32:41.458 --> 00:32:43.061
And I remember.

00:32:43.383 --> 00:32:49.207
I remember the moment I said I'm willing to do this, I'm willing to leave my job and do this for free.

00:32:49.207 --> 00:32:52.820
And again, economically, I was in a position to do that somewhat safely.

00:32:52.820 --> 00:32:53.865
I mean, that was important.

00:32:53.865 --> 00:33:00.720
But that moment is when I decided this is probably going to be my life because I'm willing to do that and it became it right.

00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:12.138
But these are like the risk cliff jumping moments cutting kids, the time commitment, becoming a parent, having a relationship right outside of the team.

00:33:12.138 --> 00:33:20.141
Obviously these are not easy things that coaches deal with and I think that if you're going to think about becoming an NCAA assistant or head coach.

00:33:20.141 --> 00:33:23.508
These are things you have to talk about with your family or with your own mind.

00:33:23.508 --> 00:33:24.469
Am I correct on that?

00:33:26.439 --> 00:33:27.261
No, 100 percent.

00:33:27.261 --> 00:33:29.397
You are, I mean the first.

00:33:29.397 --> 00:33:47.905
So my first paying job in prep school, I remember they came to me and it was the admissions director, and because you wear more than one hat, certainly when you're in prep school, so it was admissions and it was also coaching hockey, Right right.

00:33:47.905 --> 00:33:54.688
So he said to me, he said I can pay you.

00:33:54.688 --> 00:33:58.921
So first off, I'm pretty excited about that because he's saying he can pay me.

00:33:58.921 --> 00:34:06.269
And he said what I'm going to do is I'm going to pull our advertising spots from PBS this year.

00:34:06.269 --> 00:34:08.639
I'm going to give you that money, Wow.

00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:11.365
So that made me feel good.

00:34:11.365 --> 00:34:14.981
But then I thought I don't really hear us on PBS too much.

00:34:14.981 --> 00:34:17.425
So how?

00:34:17.445 --> 00:34:19.009
does that translate how much we talking?

00:34:19.677 --> 00:34:21.222
It doesn't sound like a lot of money.

00:34:21.875 --> 00:34:29.518
It was not a lot of money, but I again, in my case I was fortunate because I had my nursery, I had my farm, I had another, I had another income source.

00:34:29.518 --> 00:34:32.927
So I was able to pursue that.

00:34:32.927 --> 00:34:34.217
But it was.

00:34:34.217 --> 00:34:35.101
It was hard.

00:34:35.101 --> 00:34:36.364
It was it was difficult.

00:34:36.364 --> 00:34:53.047
I mean, you might have a son that played in the NCAA and when I was coaching prep school I would say in the four years that he played I probably made 12 games, because guess who else plays on the weekend besides college?

00:34:53.047 --> 00:34:53.710
Right?

00:34:53.849 --> 00:35:00.721
right prep school and it was conversations that we had and we talked about and we supported each other and we we still do.

00:35:00.721 --> 00:35:04.697
You know he's still in hockey and you know I'm still dancing around it a bit here.

00:35:04.697 --> 00:35:08.025
So, uh, that that was huge.

00:35:08.025 --> 00:35:08.867
That was huge for us.

00:35:08.867 --> 00:35:10.577
But, yes, it's, it has to be a commitment.

00:35:10.577 --> 00:35:24.704
The worst thing you can do, the biggest disservice you can do, not only to yourself but to your players and to your staff, if you are fortunate to become a head coach, is not be all in that's hard.

00:35:25.346 --> 00:35:32.340
That's hard right because again, like I said, there's only 100 and probably maybe it might be closer 175, 180 teams now.

00:35:32.340 --> 00:35:44.032
But it's kind of hard to give up that goal, that thing that you strive for, knowing that you know someone else potentially is better equipped.

00:35:44.813 --> 00:35:45.152
Right.

00:35:45.474 --> 00:35:47.061
In that sense to do this than me.

00:35:47.355 --> 00:36:14.391
Right, and especially if you're a mom or a dad and you know you've got, you've got kids who are in sports, your spouses, your kids need to be all in too, too, if you're going to make that kind of commitment, and I think you've got to lay it out to them, saying, hey, I'm not going to be here for your games, or telling your husband or wife that big dinner party, I'm not going to be there, it's not a weekend.

00:36:14.391 --> 00:36:19.766
So you really have to carefully weigh the pluses and the minuses.

00:36:19.766 --> 00:36:22.682
What's it going to do with your family relationship?

00:36:22.682 --> 00:36:38.672
Even though that's your dream, because that's a huge part of it, like you said, it's not just you that has to be all in and telling that the uh, the team, the college, the organization, but your family has to be all in too.

00:36:38.672 --> 00:36:40.757
That's really something important to weigh.

00:36:41.641 --> 00:36:48.606
Yeah, I mean it is, and Lee, kind of going all the way back to what you're talking about, that youth coach that wants to advance.

00:36:48.606 --> 00:36:59.865
That's where the sticking point generally is, because those are individuals that have careers, they have well-paying jobs and it's it's.

00:36:59.865 --> 00:37:05.400
It's hard to put that aside, especially if you have children.

00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:06.943
If you have children, it's a little different.

00:37:06.943 --> 00:37:12.626
If it's just, if it's you and your spouse, right then between the two of you you can probably figure it out.

00:37:12.626 --> 00:37:15.101
But man, once you get kids.

00:37:15.442 --> 00:37:26.846
We've had conversations about this where I've said to you that you know the game is calling to me and it's hard, uh, because here's the thing my primary role in my life is a father and a husband.

00:37:27.106 --> 00:37:30.097
Like as much as I love hockey, nothing trumps that.

00:37:30.097 --> 00:37:32.284
Uh, but there will be time.

00:37:32.284 --> 00:37:33.407
Look, I'll give you a great example.

00:37:33.407 --> 00:37:35.297
Everyone listening to plays will understand this.

00:37:35.297 --> 00:37:36.320
We're recording this.

00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:48.106
In the late summer, in two to three weeks, there will be a morning where it is slightly colder than it is normally and this chilled breeze will come over you and you'll know hockey season is about to start.

00:37:48.106 --> 00:37:50.099
Okay, it's, it's one of the.

00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:54.047
You just know it's an amazing feeling and it's tough.

00:37:54.047 --> 00:37:57.856
If you know you can't dive in, uh, you'll experience this.

00:37:57.856 --> 00:38:01.219
Uh, the tough part, you'll experience this when you're done playing.

00:38:01.219 --> 00:38:05.603
Those first few years out are hard, but if you're coaching and then not coaching, it can be hard.

00:38:05.603 --> 00:38:12.608
So I've always said that the game calls to me, but you have to have your priorities in order, point.

00:38:12.608 --> 00:38:17.552
You know my, my, obviously, my parents have always supported me.

00:38:17.552 --> 00:38:18.652
I mean, you know that's.

00:38:18.652 --> 00:38:27.101
That's one aspect of this, but my wife has been incredibly supportive of me.

00:38:27.121 --> 00:38:29.309
And when I look at my coaching journey, which has spanned over 20 years now.

00:38:29.309 --> 00:38:29.891
My wife who, who, who?

00:38:29.891 --> 00:38:30.594
Is a physician.

00:38:30.594 --> 00:38:37.119
I, god, god bless her, but you know she was going through med school when I was starting this journey and then she was in the air Force.

00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:51.786
During this journey, we had to have a really clear understanding of commitment to each other's goals and I supported her and she supported me really without question most of the time, and what I mean by that is there was never an inauthentic challenge to what I was doing.

00:38:51.786 --> 00:38:54.858
We've had conversations about, you know, is this worth it?

00:38:54.858 --> 00:39:01.909
And we've had good conversations about is this the direction you want to go, but there was never a you can't do this anymore because I have my own goals.

00:39:01.909 --> 00:39:04.179
We completely supported each other.

00:39:04.179 --> 00:39:07.858
It's one of the things I'm most proud about in my marriage, aside from our children.

00:39:07.858 --> 00:39:10.786
It was the ability that we've had to communicate and work together.

00:39:10.786 --> 00:39:17.507
I'm also very blessed because I don't think that that's actually the common ground for most people.

00:39:17.507 --> 00:39:18.668
I think this is very hard.

00:39:19.335 --> 00:39:30.581
All right, I think you know, when you're pursuing coaching and you're a type A personality, you tend to think you're the main character in the story, and the truth is that that's not how life actually works, right?

00:39:30.581 --> 00:39:33.351
There's 8 billion main characters on this planet.

00:39:33.351 --> 00:39:36.063
You just happen to be one of them, right?

00:39:36.063 --> 00:39:47.766
So I think we're bringing up a good point here, that if you're going to dive into coaching I mean NCAA specifically for this episode these are conversations you need to have with your loved ones, with your spouses.

00:39:47.766 --> 00:39:50.862
If you have children, you should talk to them about it.

00:39:50.862 --> 00:39:53.536
You know mom or dad's going to be away a lot If I do this.

00:39:53.536 --> 00:39:54.278
Are you okay with that?

00:39:54.278 --> 00:39:55.340
Can you support me with that?

00:39:55.340 --> 00:39:57.344
And then you have to make a decision.

00:39:58.007 --> 00:40:00.811
And again, look, there's a lot of positives in coaching.

00:40:01.393 --> 00:40:03.840
You know, like I said, I would never tell anybody not to coach if they want to coach.

00:40:04.161 --> 00:40:21.268
But you got to think about these things because, pete, you said it a minute ago the drive can waver at times and I'll tell you right now if you walk into a locker room and you're not feeling it as a head coach or an assistant coach, and that feeling continues for a while, you really need to sit down and meditate for a minute on what's going on.

00:40:21.489 --> 00:40:24.199
All right, like everybody gets burnt out from time to time, don't get me wrong.

00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:27.130
All right, but if you can't be all in.

00:40:27.130 --> 00:40:30.440
It might not be the right fit right now and again.

00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:38.197
Look, I know a lot of coaches and professionals in general who have stepped aside, just saying you know, I just wasn't feeling it the way I used to feel it.

00:40:38.197 --> 00:40:39.739
It was time Right.

00:40:39.739 --> 00:40:50.847
I also know some people I think that will go to the grave being all in, right, but I mean it's just a larger point of the discussion here is that you got to make sure you have your priorities in order.

00:40:50.847 --> 00:40:58.213
You've got to make sure that you know what you're stepping into and that you're willing to take that step with the people around you and you're not pushing them aside.

00:40:59.313 --> 00:41:05.023
And that actually speaks a little bit to the whole thing we were talking about earlier about confidence versus ego.

00:41:05.023 --> 00:41:19.617
If you're really confident in what you're able to do and you're confident with that person because, similar to you, like I'm incredibly lucky with having a wife that was so supportive, I mean, I remember when we went to our we had that great run.

00:41:19.617 --> 00:41:24.047
We went to the championship game lost by a goal, went through the room, talked to the boys, came out.

00:41:24.047 --> 00:41:27.601
After she's out there in tears.

00:41:29.164 --> 00:41:37.583
I'm the one that actually had to hug her and tell her that it was all right yeah, she's just as invested.

00:41:37.664 --> 00:41:44.800
So yes, but knowing that you have someone like that is is really, really important.

00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:47.186
Like it's a hard decision for you to make.

00:41:47.186 --> 00:41:57.242
I you know I can't move forward because of x or y, but if you can't move forward, quite honestly, it only affects you if you decide to move forward even though you shouldn't.

00:41:57.242 --> 00:42:00.016
Only affects you If you decide to move forward even though you shouldn't.

00:42:00.016 --> 00:42:04.405
It affects up to at least 30 people, right, that's a good point too.

00:42:05.007 --> 00:42:13.481
And look, you have to think about those other people, and I know what it's like and I think a lot of the listeners will too to want something so bad.

00:42:13.481 --> 00:42:21.666
But you got to look at the full picture here, because if you don't have the full puzzle in place, it's not going to be what you think it is Now.

00:42:21.666 --> 00:42:49.210
With that said, when you have a supportive system surrounding you, man, that helps the success of these situations, right, and again, we're talking about spouses, we're talking about parents that support system goes well beyond just those people, right, you know, friends play into this, your team plays into this, right, you know, and I don't want to go too deep into that, but the experience of sharing extreme happiness and extreme pain with a group is important, right, like, as humans, we need that.

00:42:49.210 --> 00:42:51.539
We could tap into that, pete.

00:42:51.539 --> 00:42:54.847
Another direction I want to go with this, and this is a funny one.

00:42:55.155 --> 00:42:57.259
When I dove into coaching again, I was in my early 20s.

00:42:57.259 --> 00:42:59.141
I wanted to do everything.

00:42:59.141 --> 00:43:01.664
I was diving into this, I was diving into that.

00:43:01.664 --> 00:43:05.190
I almost completely burnt myself out by the second year.

00:43:05.190 --> 00:43:16.007
Oh, dear, need great assistant coaches, people that you trust emphatically.

00:43:16.007 --> 00:43:32.577
But what I started to realize, pete and this is something I want you to talk about About five or six years in, I started to realize that while I was proficient with all aspects of coaching and running a team and all I mean by proficient is I could do it.

00:43:32.577 --> 00:43:43.757
I started to realize this culture piece is really my realm Getting the group to believe in each other, building that team culture, building the trust, building the communication.

00:43:43.757 --> 00:43:50.684
And then starting to realize, wow, if I support a head coach in this realm, I'm far more effective as a coach.

00:43:50.684 --> 00:43:51.860
You want to talk about dropping ego.

00:43:51.860 --> 00:43:56.733
I realized I think I'm more of an assistant coach than a head coach after a while.

00:43:56.833 --> 00:44:02.547
Right Doesn't mean I couldn't be a head coach, but I found my niche right.

00:44:02.547 --> 00:44:07.980
Building team cultures, building team bonds, is what I love to do.

00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:09.302
I study it.

00:44:09.302 --> 00:44:10.846
I'm passionate about it.

00:44:10.846 --> 00:44:12.329
I'm always learning.

00:44:12.329 --> 00:44:14.416
I mean I'm very blessed.

00:44:14.416 --> 00:44:16.998
A lot of people call me an expert on this.

00:44:16.998 --> 00:44:22.204
Now I'm still so far from where I want to be in terms of learning about this.

00:44:22.204 --> 00:44:24.206
It's an eternal pursuit.

00:44:24.206 --> 00:44:30.711
When I figured that out, I really had this direction in coaching that I didn't have before.

00:44:30.711 --> 00:44:39.844
Interview and say look, this is what I do Almost in a take it or leave it kind of attitude.

00:44:39.844 --> 00:44:40.588
I don't mean that in a cocky way.

00:44:40.588 --> 00:44:41.210
It's like no, this is what I do.

00:44:41.210 --> 00:44:42.938
If you don't need this, I'm not a good fit for your program.

00:44:42.938 --> 00:44:45.324
Right Again, this is 20 years down the line.

00:44:45.324 --> 00:44:48.719
I'm very blessed to be in a position where I can kind of pick and choose things like that.

00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:51.061
That's not what it's like at the start, okay.

00:44:51.222 --> 00:45:03.965
And I also want to ask too, when too, when you're looking for an assistant coach, um, since you were into that, do you want somebody who's like-minded or do you want somebody who's different than you?

00:45:03.965 --> 00:45:06.297
You know the good cop, bad cop thing, right?

00:45:06.297 --> 00:45:14.862
So maybe you're a softy and you want someone who's tougher, who can be more of an enforcer, or do you want somebody who's very much like-minded?

00:45:14.862 --> 00:45:17.327
What do you look for in an assistant coach?

00:45:24.954 --> 00:45:27.021
Well, for me to be successful, the like-minded piece comes in the philosophy.

00:45:27.021 --> 00:45:28.324
And the philosophy is not just the X's and O's piece.

00:45:28.324 --> 00:45:31.211
The philosophy is what I talked about earlier, the culture.

00:45:31.211 --> 00:45:33.579
How important this culture is important to me.

00:45:33.579 --> 00:45:34.923
Is it important to you?

00:45:34.923 --> 00:45:46.539
Tell me why it's important to you Ask those same the to you ask those same, the same questions, not see, the questions when interviewing for an assistant coach for me were pretty similar to the questions I was asking a player.

00:45:47.300 --> 00:45:51.440
I'm not going to ask a player, hey, can you shoot the puck, can you see the ice?

00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:54.596
Because those are all things that you figured out when you were scouting that player.

00:45:54.596 --> 00:45:59.317
So what makes you a fit for the team are those other aspects?

00:45:59.317 --> 00:46:11.576
Are we going to be on the same page, uh, with our philosophies of the importance of getting again, as an assistant coach, helping get those kids through education wise with study halls and things like that?

00:46:11.576 --> 00:46:15.943
Um understanding, um, what limitations we may have?

00:46:16.284 --> 00:46:34.737
Because you know with us at the division two level um, which is kind of peculiar, interesting division two, uh, men's ice hockey is the only um level of division two that does not offer athletic scholarship money, right, only academic uh.

00:46:34.737 --> 00:46:36.961
So you have to know, but you have to to know that stuff.

00:46:36.961 --> 00:46:41.000
So getting them on board so that we are like-minded.

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:48.942
The easiest, you know the easiest way to find out if you're like-minded with somebody is go take somebody out to dinner and see what they order.

00:46:48.942 --> 00:47:06.054
And if you look at it and you say I have no idea what that even is, that you're eating, it might sound like a silly thing, but it does two things it opens maybe my eyes a little bit that there's another world out there and we can have a little discussion about.

00:47:06.054 --> 00:47:07.266
So how come you like that?

00:47:08.068 --> 00:47:12.056
And we can spin that into a discussion about anything else.

00:47:12.056 --> 00:47:13.539
So so you like that.

00:47:13.539 --> 00:47:25.047
So so, when you're in a situation where we're together and maybe you like a player or you like their actions and I don't, how do we deal with that and we can have that.

00:47:25.068 --> 00:47:31.614
So yeah, if they're ordering filet and lobster, you may want to question whether or not they're on the same page with you, right?

00:47:34.170 --> 00:47:42.143
I keep an eye on how to treat the servers and the waiters I always keep an eye on that too, and and you know how do they treat the?

00:47:42.384 --> 00:47:47.456
I always I, I look for that right like, how do you treat the people around you?

00:47:47.456 --> 00:47:59.753
I was at dinner one time uh, not kidding, a professional dinner and someone I was with waved away the waiter, like get you know, like with their hand, and I have never done work with that person again because of that moment.

00:47:59.753 --> 00:48:01.818
It was unbelievable.

00:48:01.818 --> 00:48:05.472
I repeat, the word that comes to my mind is shared consciousness.

00:48:05.472 --> 00:48:09.472
You know is, can you create a shared consciousness with these other people?

00:48:09.472 --> 00:48:25.565
And, like you know, christy, it's funny the question you asked, because my favorite story to tell about this is when I was working in the UK, the head coach of a team was from Russia and I explained to him pretty, pretty to the point this is my team building philosophy.

00:48:25.565 --> 00:48:27.030
This is why I think you need it.

00:48:27.030 --> 00:48:31.085
I'll never forget him looking me in the eye because this was a stone faced man, like.

00:48:31.085 --> 00:48:45.257
He does not show a lot of emotion and I'll get a spare the accent, but he basically just said I don't know how to do what you do, but I know that I need it and he hired me on the spot and he went on and he's one of the greatest tacticians I have ever worked with.

00:48:45.257 --> 00:49:00.646
He taught me so much about the X's and O's and in turn, he has told me this I taught him so much about culture building that we don't work together now, but he still implements this and he still credits that with a lot of his success, which means the world to me.

00:49:00.646 --> 00:49:07.599
But that's an amazing example of this, right, where we both learn from each other.

00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:08.809
We had a shared consciousness.

00:49:08.889 --> 00:49:13.967
Adversely, I worked with another coach, was an AHL coach, tremendous human being.

00:49:13.967 --> 00:49:18.829
We bonded over trust more than anything, and we were very yin yang.

00:49:18.829 --> 00:49:31.451
All right, I I was very much the I don't want to say the Joker on the bench, but I was running the defense on this team as, in addition to the culture piece, and I, my D needed to be a little loose, and he understood that, and and I had that balance.

00:49:31.451 --> 00:49:41.809
Where he does not coach that way, all right I, he is a very stern, this is how I want it done, coach, but we learn from each other, right, so I like.

00:49:41.829 --> 00:49:48.713
The aspect of that too, pete, is that you know, look, when it comes to assistant to head coach, there has to be an understanding of that.

00:49:48.713 --> 00:49:58.431
We'll just call it hierarchy for the episode, right that the head coach makes the final call and, as an assistant, you assist that person with the role that they play.

00:49:58.431 --> 00:50:02.045
You can disagree, never do it in front of the players, right?

00:50:02.045 --> 00:50:05.445
But at the end of the day, that's that person's call and they have the right to make that call.

00:50:05.445 --> 00:50:06.628
That's okay, right?

00:50:06.628 --> 00:50:08.675
I think that's what we'll dive into that in a quick second too.

00:50:08.675 --> 00:50:13.197
But that shared consciousness of coming into the room and saying, yeah, I can work with this person.

00:50:13.197 --> 00:50:21.507
I have turned work away.

00:50:21.507 --> 00:50:21.989
I've turned work away.

00:50:21.989 --> 00:50:25.001
If I don't think that the person in charge has a shared consciousness with what I bring to the table, it's not going to work, right.

00:50:25.001 --> 00:50:29.320
So I think we're bringing up a good point here is that it's always going to come back to the people, right?

00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:31.045
You got to understand the people that you're working with.

00:50:33.068 --> 00:50:34.771
Yeah, a hundred percent.

00:50:34.771 --> 00:50:40.425
I had an assistant who at one point told me that it was something.

00:50:40.425 --> 00:50:40.726
It was.

00:50:40.726 --> 00:50:45.445
It was something really super simple and but ended up being a good example.

00:50:45.445 --> 00:50:53.509
We're on the road and like the room is like dead forehand and I said to him, I said where's the music like?

00:50:53.509 --> 00:50:55.172
And he said, well, I don't know.

00:50:55.172 --> 00:50:58.739
I said, uh, the guy's got to bring music.

00:50:58.739 --> 00:51:11.594
He said, well, they should know that oh and I said once you assume they should know everything, we're destined for failure yeah, exactly, yeah.

00:51:11.675 --> 00:51:12.717
I would much rather.

00:51:12.717 --> 00:51:21.072
I would much rather you go in there and mention it and then maybe it's like oh yeah, it's in my bag, coach, or all right, you bring that next time.

00:51:21.072 --> 00:51:32.813
But you can't assume that they should know, because that ends up being a little bit of a cop-out, because now you're, you're avoiding, and confrontation is not always necessarily a negative thing.

00:51:32.813 --> 00:51:33.476
You hear the word.

00:51:33.476 --> 00:51:42.547
It's not necessarily a negative thing, but that a great opportunity for him to teach them say, hey, I played boys and this is really early on.

00:51:42.547 --> 00:51:45.434
This is like the first, literally the first year of the program.

00:51:46.155 --> 00:51:57.119
Um right, what you got to do a small example, but a small example of a bigger problem that will, you know, escalate down the road, you know.

00:51:57.119 --> 00:51:59.733
So, yeah, it's a great example.

00:51:59.733 --> 00:52:09.193
Just curious now, because college sports is changing so much now, you know, the growth of hockey is fantastic.

00:52:09.193 --> 00:52:16.518
There are more teams, so now more opportunities for, you know, for new coaches.

00:52:16.518 --> 00:52:24.719
Do you think it's time for some of the older coaches to kind of let the reins go a little bit?

00:52:24.719 --> 00:52:25.485
Let some of these?

00:52:25.485 --> 00:52:31.219
I think some coaches hang on a little too long and don't know when to leave.

00:52:31.219 --> 00:52:34.507
You know, I've seen that I'm citing.

00:52:34.507 --> 00:52:37.956
I have an example that just happened.

00:52:37.956 --> 00:52:45.284
I think the coach just stayed a little bit too long, so how do you know when it's time to step aside?

00:52:46.746 --> 00:52:49.150
I mean, I think it depends upon the individual.

00:52:49.150 --> 00:52:59.007
Um, again, you look at everything from your success to it to, honestly, is someone from administration telling you something?

00:52:59.007 --> 00:53:03.407
Having a polite conversation with you that you've been here for 25 years?

00:53:03.407 --> 00:53:07.594
We don't win, we have to make a change, that kind of thing.

00:53:07.594 --> 00:53:38.295
But but for me, I think, where the value would be like, like for myself, like I don't think that I would be a great candidate for anyone to slide in now and be a head coach, but I think I would be a really good candidate for them at some program to create what would be a if you want to term it, what would be a if you want to term it coaching advisor.

00:53:38.355 --> 00:53:59.547
Coaching mentor team senior hockey advisor for a team, because now I'm looking at everything from 30,000 feet right when you're in it as a head coach.

00:53:59.547 --> 00:54:07.954
That can be difficult to do, but if you have the individual with the experience the life experience as well as the athletic experience I think you could be very, very valuable to helping mentor the younger coaches and just interject when appropriate.

00:54:08.695 --> 00:54:09.257
That's great.

00:54:09.257 --> 00:54:21.974
Also, I think a lot of assistant coaches assume, because they've been with a program and, let's say, the head coach steps aside, that they're automatically to be tapped to take over the reins.

00:54:21.974 --> 00:54:27.097
And I've seen that locally with one of our basketball programs.

00:54:27.097 --> 00:54:35.894
You know everybody thought this one coach assistant coach was going to get it because politics for whatever does it, then that assistant coach leaves.

00:54:35.894 --> 00:54:47.353
So for those who want to be the assistant coach, don't assume, right, that you're automatically going to be the next head coach, right?

00:54:47.353 --> 00:54:49.619
That's another aspect to think about.

00:54:50.326 --> 00:54:51.628
No, that is, that's another thing.

00:54:51.628 --> 00:55:11.070
And you know, you hope at some point, when you you have that discussion and that there was a discussion that there is some exit you know exit strategy, unless you're in a situation where you're getting fired, which there isn't any exit strategy there really, um other than administration firing you, um, that, uh, you have that discussion.

00:55:11.070 --> 00:55:19.920
Hey, listen, I have a plan where x year or x season I'm going to be leaving this.

00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:26.213
So you need to start doing some things to put yourself in the best possible position.

00:55:26.213 --> 00:55:38.748
If you think that you want to step into that head role because there are some players too that you know um, or coaches, I should say that maybe don't want to do that, maybe they just they're just, they're just loving it.

00:55:38.748 --> 00:55:47.175
I mean, honestly, one of the reasons that I left prep school when I was, when I was coaching, was I use the expression that you shared a brain.

00:55:47.175 --> 00:56:04.637
We shared a brain for a lot of reasons, but between the three of us at least, we had one brain, but we shared that brain.

00:56:05.726 --> 00:56:09.333
We shared that brain and our success was really good.

00:56:09.333 --> 00:56:21.251
I mean, we had 70-plus players that went Division I same amount or more division two and three NHL draft picks, coach of Hobie Baker, finalist.

00:56:21.251 --> 00:56:36.681
But I knew when that head coach was moving on I would never have that same 12 years, that same feeling going to that every single day.

00:56:36.681 --> 00:56:41.931
So I'm trying to replicate that, as you know, potentially becoming the next head coach.

00:56:41.931 --> 00:56:50.012
I wanted to keep that memory and create a new memory, which is a big reason why I moved on to the NCAA.

00:56:50.914 --> 00:56:54.568
That's so important for people to, for future coaches to keep in mind.

00:56:54.568 --> 00:57:05.516
You know lot that goes into it when you decide to stay with a program or leave a program, and that was a great example right there of how you came to your decision.

00:57:06.326 --> 00:57:07.865
There's a lot to it how much does?

00:57:07.925 --> 00:57:11.775
politics play a role in who gets to be head coach.

00:57:11.775 --> 00:57:13.257
Is that still a thing?

00:57:13.704 --> 00:57:20.170
Listen, you know that there are no politics in hockey, that's why we have the show right.

00:57:23.385 --> 00:57:26.514
That's the reality of it, People have to realize that.

00:57:26.634 --> 00:57:27.516
That's part of the game.

00:57:27.516 --> 00:57:29.150
You got to get ready for that.

00:57:29.432 --> 00:57:30.719
It is absolutely part of the game.

00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:32.266
I think that's when we find good people.

00:57:32.266 --> 00:57:36.434
You want to stay with those people as long as you possibly can, as long as it's working.

00:57:36.434 --> 00:57:52.396
And you know, christy, you bring it up a great point, and this is especially for the parents listening the coaching staff's a team within the team and, like any team, they have good days, they have bad days and they have to find ways to work together too, while also simultaneously trying to get 20 players to do the same thing.

00:57:52.396 --> 00:57:57.166
So there's a lot of moving parts.

00:57:57.188 --> 00:58:01.056
You know, one thing I wanted to talk about on this episode specifically Pete, with assistant coaching.

00:58:01.056 --> 00:58:19.498
And again, this kind of all comes back to what you started with with the ego and I alluded to it a few minutes ago is the understanding that you make suggestions but the head coach, unless he is delegated to you, makes the decision right, and you have to have a really clear understanding of that and drop the ego.

00:58:19.498 --> 00:58:40.994
And I'm telling you right now, if you're an assistant coach, whether it's happened already or hasn't, the day will come where you really disagree with the direction a head coach might be going with a situation, a team, a play, and you have to be okay with the thought of I disagree, but this is not my call and you have to drive the ego.

00:58:40.994 --> 00:58:48.324
Now listen, a great head coach will always give you the ability to voice your opinion in a in a professional way, right?

00:58:48.324 --> 00:59:01.048
I've always told, when I was a head coach or as an assistant coach, I will not disagree with them in a public view of the team, that is not correct, it is not professional.

00:59:01.048 --> 00:59:01.510
It hurts the team bond.

00:59:01.510 --> 00:59:03.699
The best coaches I've worked with have always given me the time to sit down and say, hey, I don't agree.

00:59:03.699 --> 00:59:03.818
Right.

00:59:03.818 --> 00:59:17.987
I can think of a situation right now where I sat down with him three times and on the third time he said okay, I think you're right, you know, but he disagreed with me twice.

00:59:17.987 --> 00:59:18.708
And my point is this that's okay.

00:59:18.728 --> 00:59:22.416
Right, as an assistant coach, your job is to assist the head coach, in addition to, obviously supporting the team and the players.

00:59:22.416 --> 00:59:29.567
Your job is to take their vision, or create that shared vision, and execute it with the understanding of they are the one driving the ship.

00:59:29.567 --> 00:59:41.018
So, pete, again, I'm saying this a little strictly, but I would love for you to talk to the audience about that a little bit, because I have also had assistant coaches that aspired to be the head coach.

00:59:41.018 --> 00:59:49.637
And to your point, christy, politics can someone play into that and may or may not make a decision to better their chances at that.

00:59:49.637 --> 00:59:53.992
If you're, if you're not careful, right, that's the, that is the like we talk about.

00:59:53.992 --> 00:59:58.144
That's the ugly side of it, right, but I try and avoid that at all costs.

00:59:58.144 --> 01:00:02.367
I don't ever want an assistant coach to think that they have to do that to better their position.

01:00:02.367 --> 01:00:03.954
But, pete, go ahead and dive in on that.

01:00:03.954 --> 01:00:07.956
And that's my last question because I think that's an important aspect of it.

01:00:09.126 --> 01:00:10.228
Right, I agree.

01:00:10.228 --> 01:00:11.934
I mean, for me it was always.

01:00:11.934 --> 01:00:14.429
We can talk about anything.

01:00:14.429 --> 01:00:17.985
We might end up agreeing to disagree, maybe it's you know what.

01:00:18.748 --> 01:00:20.851
I really think this should be a defensive parent.

01:00:20.851 --> 01:00:25.648
I just and as a head coach I'm saying I just can't see that.

01:00:25.648 --> 01:00:57.706
But here's why I think it's important, again from the head coach piece, like I think again, I think if you're a good head coach, just like if you're a good father or a good parent in general, good mom you're, you don't have an ego, right, the the days of because I said so, they don't really work in today's world very well, right, they're not really well accepted and probably nor should they be, because any decision you make, you do have a reason for that decision.

01:00:57.706 --> 01:01:15.469
So why not share that with that individual who you have to either parent for the next so many years, or coach for the next so many years, or work with on your staff for the next so many years, so that you at least have an understanding of the reasoning, of why you're saying what you're saying.

01:01:15.469 --> 01:01:26.474
Right, I think that's the most important part is to be open and transparent with those individuals, because any decision you make, again coming from confidence rather than ego.

01:01:26.474 --> 01:01:27.315
Yeah, I can back it up.

01:01:27.315 --> 01:01:43.726
I can tell you why Because in this situation, both those players are very offensive minded and they're both going to want to be jumping into the play somebody has to be able to be the last guy back and neither one of those are going to be the last guy back.

01:01:44.148 --> 01:01:45.251
So that's that's my feeling.

01:01:45.251 --> 01:01:47.275
We could try to practice, and that's the other thing.

01:01:47.275 --> 01:02:02.831
Where we have practice, you know, we can try, let's, let's try some of these pairings of practice, and very often we try them and you look at them and you know, as often as not, it's like yeah, that's not going to work, or all right, that might be something to look at, something to at least keep in mind.

01:02:02.831 --> 01:02:12.146
If we need to change things during the course of the game because that's the other thing the game is so fluid you have to be willing to change things as it's going right.

01:02:12.146 --> 01:02:17.949
You can't wait sometimes till the end of a period to change something because it may be too late.

01:02:17.949 --> 01:02:26.496
So you have to have that open-mindedness to be able to do that, and the best way to get that is to experiment with that kind of stuff at practice too.

01:02:27.224 --> 01:02:33.009
Right, you're bringing up another point Patience is key, right, like immediate gratification we talked about before.

01:02:33.009 --> 01:02:36.143
In coaching, you might see something as an assistant coach.

01:02:36.143 --> 01:02:37.288
Oh, you know, I think this would work.

01:02:37.288 --> 01:02:38.833
Let's try it in the next shift, like that is.

01:02:38.833 --> 01:02:42.715
That is not how this works, unless it's like a really desperate situation.

01:02:42.715 --> 01:02:49.190
You poke and you prod and the season's a living thing and you try things and look, things are going to happen.

01:02:49.190 --> 01:02:50.655
Kids will get injured, things will happen.

01:02:50.655 --> 01:02:51.547
Things will happen.

01:02:51.547 --> 01:02:54.795
You got to be able to navigate those waters, right.

01:02:58.824 --> 01:02:59.005
As a unit.

01:02:59.025 --> 01:03:00.527
So I'm really, I'm really glad you brought that up.

01:03:00.547 --> 01:03:01.067
Christy, go ahead.

01:03:01.067 --> 01:03:01.487
Oh no, I'm just.

01:03:01.487 --> 01:03:01.788
I just.

01:03:01.788 --> 01:03:20.724
This is a great conversation, appreciate your honesty and your openness and I think you know, down the road, the kids and I can say this with my own kids they may not necessarily remember what the coach did or what the coach said, but they do remember how the coach made them feel 100%.

01:03:20.724 --> 01:03:23.934
I think that's really important for coaches to keep in mind.

01:03:24.724 --> 01:03:26.224
Yeah, I think I agree with that 100%.

01:03:26.224 --> 01:03:28.594
I think that has to be your driving force.

01:03:28.594 --> 01:03:34.925
Now there's always difficult conversations Honestly one of the most difficult conversations I ever had with a player and this kid was great.

01:03:34.925 --> 01:03:51.407
Again, it was very early on and to this day that kid is probably top three in the hardest working player that I ever coached oh, wow and at one point he came to his senior year, he was not in the lineup.

01:03:51.467 --> 01:04:08.199
A lot came in, was super frustrated, more or less had it out with me and my staff saying I do this every day, I'm here, I work harder than everybody else, I deserve a chance.

01:04:10.268 --> 01:04:27.036
And the most difficult conversation I had was I understand exactly what you're feeling and I understand your frustration, but the end of the day, taking the personal aspect out of this, you still have to be better than someone else to get into the lineup.

01:04:27.036 --> 01:04:40.891
And he understood it, didn't like it, didn't really have an answer for that, because that's that's the harsh reality of athletics, right?

01:04:40.891 --> 01:04:45.579
You can't just put people in the lineup because you're, you're nicer than they are.

01:04:45.579 --> 01:04:51.956
At the end of the day, you have to have, you have to be better in some way, in some way.

01:04:51.956 --> 01:05:09.675
And and then you know he got, he got awards at school academically, um, you know he was like our seventh man, like he got all those accolades, um, it was really tough for him and it was really tough for me to have that conversation because he's still he's a great human being.

01:05:09.675 --> 01:05:11.610
But that was a hard.

01:05:11.791 --> 01:05:31.456
That was probably one of the hardest conversations I think I ever had to have yeah I I had one too, christy and pete that I remember a player came up to me and the head coach and said um, I'm owed this thing oh dear and I had to look him in the eye and say you are not owed anything that is not how this works, right?

01:05:31.456 --> 01:05:35.789
Yeah, um, and again, he was saying that in a completely inappropriate way.

01:05:35.789 --> 01:05:38.269
This wasn't like like, like we lied to him, or that we didn't.

01:05:38.309 --> 01:05:41.728
He just felt like he was owed something because he did something, is it no?

01:05:41.728 --> 01:05:45.657
And I said I'm not owed anything, I'm not owed a thing like I'm not owed a job.

01:05:45.657 --> 01:05:49.273
Right, it was a little bit of the mentality of the time, if you will.

01:05:49.273 --> 01:05:56.820
Um, there was a little bit of uh, you know derangement of how this works in his mind.

01:05:56.820 --> 01:06:08.489
Now I did, I this player actually did not stay on the team, believe it or not, but I tried, I sat down with him, I really tried to explain to him the philosophy here and it wasn't a fit and and we had to remove him from the team at some point.

01:06:08.489 --> 01:06:14.757
I'll reiterate we did everything we could to try and reincorporate this player into that team bond and just was not a fit.

01:06:14.757 --> 01:06:19.914
All right, that that again harsh realities of coaching, that that's going to happen at some point.

01:06:20.697 --> 01:06:24.233
Um, and again, you have to be built for that again.

01:06:24.233 --> 01:06:28.550
That's we go back to like who you are as an individual, you're confident to have.

01:06:28.550 --> 01:06:34.733
If, if you have an ego, you're going to be given like some really short answers like how dare you approach me like that?

01:06:35.114 --> 01:06:38.431
yeah, xyz whereas if you have confidence.

01:06:39.152 --> 01:06:41.581
Let's talk about this, and that's that's how I followed it up.

01:06:41.820 --> 01:06:45.735
Yeah, like we can discuss this but don't, don't tell me you're owed something again.

01:06:45.735 --> 01:06:48.010
These tough conversations will happen.

01:06:48.010 --> 01:06:49.434
Uh, adversely, pete.

01:06:49.434 --> 01:06:50.376
I had a coach one time.

01:06:50.376 --> 01:06:51.139
Talk about ego.

01:06:51.902 --> 01:07:01.722
Um, I remember after a practice I went up to him and I said I was, I, I, I remember this is coming as politely polite I'm sorry, completely polite, uh, it's possible, I didn't.

01:07:01.722 --> 01:07:10.027
But I remember genuinely wanting to have a conversation and asking for the time, uh, to talk about uh, positioning and something like that.

01:07:10.027 --> 01:07:11.851
I really wanted to have a good conversation.

01:07:11.851 --> 01:07:15.710
And he turned around and said you, you, I mean, he was horrible.

01:07:15.710 --> 01:07:21.146
He was just accused me of making it all about me and he goes how dare you question what we're trying to do?

01:07:21.146 --> 01:07:24.797
And I really, I genuinely was not trying to do that.

01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:28.005
Um, but you know, as I got older, I realized well, the ego.

01:07:28.005 --> 01:07:28.807
This was all ego.

01:07:28.807 --> 01:07:31.434
This person doesn't even coach me, right, like it was.

01:07:31.434 --> 01:07:33.985
He took it as I'm challenging him and I said I want to learn right now.

01:07:33.985 --> 01:07:35.007
Again, I was young, I'll admit this, it was.

01:07:35.007 --> 01:07:36.447
He took it as I'm challenging him and I said I want to learn Right Now.

01:07:36.447 --> 01:07:37.688
Again, I was young, I'll admit this.

01:07:37.688 --> 01:07:38.588
It was very possible.

01:07:38.588 --> 01:07:52.639
The way I said it may have came across the wrong way, but I still think that that was an incorrect usage of his power of accusing me at the time of saying that I'm trying to ruin his team and that was not my intention.

01:07:52.639 --> 01:07:54.300
A good coach would have at least explored that.

01:07:54.940 --> 01:08:00.784
Uh, yeah, with me right, 100, that's just a complete uh defense mechanism.

01:08:00.784 --> 01:08:03.871
There it was, yeah, yeah, so yeah, there's no question.

01:08:03.871 --> 01:08:12.663
I mean, whenever you approach someone from a standpoint of hey, I really want to know because maybe it makes me better, that was my move.

01:08:12.663 --> 01:08:23.547
Honestly, as a, as I coach with the, with the officials, with the referees, I would always, when I would bring them in, like they're ready, right, you, you know they're, they're ready to.

01:08:23.547 --> 01:08:25.292
Okay, here I go, I'm digging my heels in.

01:08:25.292 --> 01:08:30.750
Yeah, I would always say I didn't see what you saw.

01:08:30.750 --> 01:08:35.018
Explain to me what you saw so I can make my guys better.

01:08:35.018 --> 01:08:36.520
I want to make myself better.

01:08:36.520 --> 01:08:38.208
I want to make my guys better.

01:08:38.208 --> 01:08:41.176
Now you diffuse the situation, we can actually have a conversation.

01:08:42.145 --> 01:08:44.894
Right, right, and I think that's a great tactic with the officials.

01:08:44.894 --> 01:08:45.815
You know what I do.

01:08:45.815 --> 01:08:46.846
This will make you laugh, Pete.

01:08:46.846 --> 01:08:52.908
I always offer them a stick of gum before the game, and you know like sometimes I'll get the, would I have bad breath?

01:08:52.929 --> 01:08:55.676
Yeah, I just want to make sure you're comfortable, buddy.

01:08:55.966 --> 01:08:57.591
You know, just to break the ice a little bit.

01:08:57.591 --> 01:09:05.331
But look, we had Kerry Frazier on years ago and he had a great statement about the refs, which is you can't beat the refs and your opponent.

01:09:05.331 --> 01:09:06.734
You know, you just can't.

01:09:06.734 --> 01:09:08.146
You can't be playing against both of them.

01:09:08.146 --> 01:09:11.972
So I think proper way to discuss things with that that's a.

01:09:11.972 --> 01:09:15.037
That's a topic for another show how to tell the deal with reps.

01:09:15.037 --> 01:09:16.639
But, pete, look, we discussed a lot today.

01:09:16.639 --> 01:09:18.067
I wanted to kind of at least give you the mic here.

01:09:18.067 --> 01:09:20.435
Is there anything we didn't discuss that you wanted to discuss?

01:09:20.435 --> 01:09:24.413
When it comes to, uh, you know, so you want to coach in the NCAA?

01:09:24.413 --> 01:09:25.957
Did we miss anything here today?

01:09:27.324 --> 01:09:49.154
I don't think we we missed anything, but I really, I really want to again go back to the confidence versus ego, Because I feel like self-confidence empowers you to execute your difficult decisions and develop your own self-knowledge, and I think ego prevents you from doing that.

01:09:49.154 --> 01:10:17.278
And if you can acknowledge your deficiencies because we all have deficiencies 100% and if you can acknowledge your deficiencies, because we all have deficiencies 100%, acknowledge those deficiencies, that self confidence supersedes that and I think that strengthens us as coaches and as individuals, to be it.

01:10:17.278 --> 01:10:25.899
If you're trying to coach, if you're trying to parent, I think that is huge in human development, personal development, let alone NCAA coaching development.

01:10:26.945 --> 01:10:28.110
Excellent, well said.

01:10:28.444 --> 01:10:32.936
It is well said, and I'll say this too deficiencies are opportunities for all of us.

01:10:32.936 --> 01:10:51.338
This is not just coaching, right, and I think that I think you'll like this Pete from an ego to confidence standpoint and this is a very famous quote I'm going to merge in here when you have ego, you will coach with the judgment, and when you have confidence, you will coach with curiosity.

01:10:51.338 --> 01:10:59.069
And when you are able to bring curiosity to everything that you do, you will learn at an expansive rate.

01:10:59.069 --> 01:11:12.195
So when you have a deficiency of I don't like how I feel about this situation If you're curious about this, you're more likely to find a solution, whereas if you're if you're judgmental you'll probably end up judging yourself and you'll shy away from that.

01:11:12.845 --> 01:11:15.814
Right, I like coaching in a place of wonder.

01:11:15.814 --> 01:11:27.324
I like and I've had this happen recently I was uncomfortable on a bench with the way things were moving and I didn't get angry, I got real curious Well, what about this is making me uncomfortable?

01:11:27.324 --> 01:11:28.835
And I was able to identify that.

01:11:28.835 --> 01:11:39.819
And then it's like, okay, well, I don't necessarily like that and I explored it and I got myself to a really good place with it and was able to kind of navigate it and move past it and have an understanding of it.

01:11:39.819 --> 01:11:51.904
I'm not saying that's going to happen every time, but approach coaching with curiosity and wonder, uh, and keep in mind coaching hockey it's a pretty, pretty amazing place to be right.

01:11:51.904 --> 01:12:09.006
I think we always have to have that perspective of there are other jobs you could be doing that that are that are not as fun right as coaching hockey, but I love that come from a place of curiosity 100, 100 and and again you hit on it with if it's not fun, I really don't want to do it.

01:12:09.126 --> 01:12:10.007
I don't care what it is.

01:12:10.007 --> 01:12:11.390
Yeah, why would you have fun?

01:12:11.390 --> 01:12:11.492
I?

01:12:11.511 --> 01:12:14.627
don't want to do it, yeah, no, when it's not fun.

01:12:14.627 --> 01:12:15.971
You got to rethink a lot of things.

01:12:15.971 --> 01:12:19.373
But listen, this has been a lot of things right?

01:12:19.373 --> 01:12:24.155
Yes, life's not always fun, but you should find fun in your you know enjoyment in your work.

01:12:24.155 --> 01:12:26.371
This has been a great episode.

01:12:27.746 --> 01:12:28.207
Pete again.

01:12:28.266 --> 01:12:30.831
When he texted me, christine said I've got an idea for an episode.

01:12:30.831 --> 01:12:35.439
I actually I got a pencil out and I was like tell me, tell me your idea, and this is what it turned into.

01:12:35.439 --> 01:12:38.310
So so you want to coach in the NCAA?

01:12:38.310 --> 01:12:39.454
What a great episode title.

01:12:39.454 --> 01:12:41.070
Pete, I want to thank you for being on here today.

01:12:41.070 --> 01:12:44.347
Another rockstar episode from you, man, we might just have to move you here.

01:12:44.347 --> 01:12:45.712
Just keep you here full time.

01:12:45.712 --> 01:12:47.756
Yeah, I'm retired.

01:12:49.485 --> 01:12:50.587
That's the perfect answer.

01:12:50.606 --> 01:12:53.310
You know you're a part-time guest.

01:12:53.310 --> 01:12:56.051
No, thank you, sir, for coming on today and sharing your wisdom.

01:12:56.492 --> 01:12:58.533
Thank you, really great to catch up with both of you.

01:12:58.573 --> 01:13:00.716
I'm glad things are going well for you.

01:13:00.716 --> 01:13:01.577
It goes both ways.

01:13:01.657 --> 01:13:01.957
Again.

01:13:01.976 --> 01:13:03.217
Caitlin setting everything up.

01:13:03.217 --> 01:13:04.380
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01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:07.402
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01:13:07.402 --> 01:13:20.550
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01:13:20.550 --> 01:13:21.854
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01:13:21.854 --> 01:13:26.716
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01:13:26.716 --> 01:13:29.731
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01:13:29.731 --> 01:13:39.600
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01:13:39.600 --> 01:13:39.984
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01:13:39.984 --> 01:13:40.837
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01:13:40.837 --> 01:13:42.132
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