The Secret to Hockey Success? Patience. (with NHL Veteran Mike Knuble)

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of Our Kids

Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias, joined by my co-host Mike Bonelli. christie Casciano-Burns is

literally on assignment right now doing the news. We hope one day she's going to leave that job for

us. We'll have to let it know. But our guest today represents something we talk about often on the

show, long-term development, professionalism, and earning your way throughout the game. Mike

Knuble played 1,068 NHL games over a 16-year career with the Detroit Red Wings,

New York Rangers, Boston Bruins, Philadelphia Flyers and Washington Capitals. That's literally half

the original six and then a couple of the next six. That's pretty cool. Scored 278 goals, was part

of the 98 Stanley Cup winning Detroit Weddings. You know, he was a native of Michigan. Mike played

four years at the University of Michigan, served as captain, earned first team All-American honors

before building a long NHL career the right way. And after retiring, he transitioned to coaching in

the AHL and remains deeply connected to development, including as a hockey parent himself. We're

going to talk about that today, but we're also going to go through. patience, culture, longevity,

and what youth hockey families should really be focused on. That was an awesome intro, Mike.

Welcome to the show.

Yeah, well, we love hearing that. And I can tell you right now that our audience loves hearing from

people that say that and believe in that because, as you know, the youth hockey journey is a

tumultuous, chaotic. And hopefully we're bringing some peace to that. But let's go through kind of

your origin story. Right. In Michigan, you know, you played for it there. Then you got drafted by

the Red Wings, eventually part of that Stanley Cup team. Can you take us inside that youth journey

for yourself and then playing at Michigan, ending up in Detroit? I mean, that sounds like a crazy

development story. Yeah. Long story short. So my father and. mom were married in Michigan,

transferred to Toronto 10 years, had my brother and I Toronto. So you don't necessarily go throw

the football around or the baseball around with kids when you raise them in Toronto, when they're

born there, you put them on the ice. So that was kind of our start. So I transferred back to

Michigan. And then there was, you know, we had a small program in Grand Rapids, Michigan and kind

of put us in there. And then we kind of played our way through just A and double A hockey. That's

all we had in Western Michigan.

My father passed away when I was 15, and then I jumped to our high school program, which was kind

of unique that we had our own rink for a public school. We had one of three rinks in the state of

Michigan, or one of three schools that had rinks on campus. Did two years there as a 16-year-old

and a 17-year-old, played junior hockey as an 18-year-old in Kalamazoo, and then that summer

drafted by the Red Wings and on my way to Michigan.

not like the journey that it is these days. It was much more, much disorganized, much more

disorganized, much now it's like, you know, with the internet, there's no hiding under the rocks or

anything. I think back in the day, it was very still territorial. I don't know if you saw the USA

1980 thing, but you know, there was Minnesota, there was New England and Michigan was this weird

thing. And so you just kind of played your way through there. And, and, you know, all of a sudden I

was 19 at the university of Michigan. I know that's not a great. That's a short story there, but

there's more in between. For the sake of time, I'll speed it up. So,

Mike, I think, you know, based off of your story, I mean, the adage that if you're good enough,

you will be found is certainly like your story, right? You didn't need the social media. You didn't

need the agent. You didn't need all these people, you know, blowing your name out there. You're in

a place where, in a lot of ways, you went unnoticed, I guess, in the scheme of things. But

obviously, you got to a place. because of your work ethic and your skill. And I think the

circumstances, right, that you're in. I mean, how many kids get to walk out of class and go to a

rink, you know, that's attached to the building? So I think it's really a great, you know,

just shows, you know, how having access to is such an important part of a player's journey.

Right. And I think, you know, back then, and this is, you're talking in the late 80s. You know,

to go to play junior hockey, they had a regional draft. They owned every player within certain

districts, right? There was no national draft or anything like that. But for me to play A and AA

and then play high school, I was blessed with some, you know, all of a sudden my junior year, I'm 6

'3", I'm 195 pounds, so certainly interesting. But again, you know, I played high school golf in

the fall, and then I played hockey in the winter, and I played hockey in the summer and stuff. And

hockey was my true love. um that's just that's the way it worked out and not not that you stumble

into it but and not that I stumbled into it but I just kind of kept playing right and and I think

people get caught up in a lot of other things and and there is the case for me just you show up and

play hockey right and and then you end up on the right platform so high school in Michigan is not

necessarily the right platform right and and and back in the day and and even to this day it's sort

of It's hit and miss. You might find a player or two in Michigan high school hockey, and I wish it

was better, but it's not. It's just kind of the way it works out.

I kind of, you know, I just kept plugging along and found myself in a good spot. Now, we made a

life decision when my dad passed away at 15 to keep our family together, and we just kind of rolled

with it, and whatever happens, happens. You know, I was hoping to use hockey, maybe walk on

somewhere to go to college. You know, I had dreams, but I never knew they were going to. you know,

anything would come to fruition. And then, then once I got on the right platform as, as an 18 year

old, and I think that's, that's a big key thing is I finally got to the right league. It was the

time as a North American junior hockey league and USHL and that were on par and North American

junior hockey league happened to be around Detroit, Kalamazoo, Indianapolis, and that, and those

kids kind of went to the CCHA, the USHL kids went to WCHA more or less.

um and you know and so that day was miami michigan michigan state lake state you know bowling green

that kind of ferris state that kind of those kind of teams so a lot of those teams teams grab or

grab players from that league and so uh I plugged my way through there and, and, you know,

and, and Michigan got onto me quick amongst other schools and, and, and I played and made my

decision. And then at the end of that year, again, being a draft plus one, nobody knew who I was as

a 17 year old coming out of Michigan high school hockey already give it much credence. And then you

play on the right platform and do well, then, then all of a sudden, you know, the attention's

there, but it was a much slower process. No agents, no nothing. I didn't even have an agent until I

think my. until I was in my senior year of high school. So, I mean, it was more or less you were on

your own and you just played and let things take care of themselves. And I think that gets lost a

little bit these days. You have to be talented, but your playing does the talking for you.

Right. Well, I think that goes to show, like in your situation, right, that you went into a

championship culture in Detroit. And I think, you know, knowing that, what,

98 team had to have some. pretty heavy hitters and some, some hall of famers. But it also had day

-to-day standards. It also had like, like every player had to play their role. Can you just talk

about what, what in that room, what accountability looked like that led to this winning culture in

a program with so many superstars? You know, and, and so for me being a Michigan kid playing at

Michigan and then draft pick of, of. of the Red Wins. Sure, again, we go back to development. It

doesn't mean you're going to play for the Red Wins any day. So what you're going to do, you have to

play your way through college, right? And so, you know, I have a great, great story. My first game

was Detroit, Colorado in 1997 when Patrick Waugh and Mike Vernon fought each other.

And there was a huge brawl at Joe Los Arena. Happened to be my first game in the NHL. So certainly

after plugging through the American League, maybe a year and a half, year and three quarters,

about, you know, it was March 26th. So we're coming up. another month or so. It'll be an

anniversary. But that was my first game. They won the Stanley Cup, and I made the team the next

year. And certainly coming into that situation, it was very hard to get out of the minors in

Adirondack and Glens Falls, New York, because the team was very veteran-laden and veteran-set,

right? The roster was all veterans. There's probably seven, eight, nine Hall of Famers on that

team. You know, you think of the Russians and Sergei Fedorov and Igor Larionov and the Eisenmans

and the Shanahan's and the Nick Lidstrom's. I mean, there's five or six Hall of Famers right there

without even digging. But certainly there was a standard for me coming out to learn what these guys

were doing. And Steve Eisenman was in the process of... his career a little bit.

Scotty Bowman was on him to be more well-rounded as a player, maybe not have 120 points a year,

maybe have 80, 85, but be more well-rounded as a player if you want to win a Stanley Cup. And so

he was buying in and the way that guys worked there, that team, those teams ran, they were on

autopilot. You know, Sky would come in, and if it was getting off the rails a little bit, he'd just

bump it right, you know, like throw a hip on it, get it back, get the train back on the rails, and

that team would just go. But, you know, as a young player, to get in there and keep my eyes open

and my mouth shut and learn a lot about what it takes to be a pro and hope.

hoped that I could achieve what those guys were achieving. I wanted to be them. I knew I was a

player there in my first year, and those guys have been there 10, 12 years. I'm like, I want what

they have, you know? And so I think it was a terrific environment for me to learn from the Red

Wings in 97 and 98 with those guys in the locker room and the standards and how much you had to do

to be a good pro and be a Stanley Cup champion.

Go ahead. Let me fan out here for one second, Mike. Sometimes our audience, Mike,

lets me dive into my hockey fandom a little bit. I just think it's very interesting, the timing

here for the start of your career, because listen, the audience knows I'm in Philadelphia, so I

didn't love the Red Wings growing up because of 1997, which is also impacted later because you play

for the Flyers and you're a massive... person on the Flyers at that time. So, but I want the

audience to understand, especially the younger side of our audience, that in 97, 98, I mean, this

was the start of one of the greatest dynasties and teams in NHL history. It's amazing to me that

your first game was that rivalry game that is well documented. There's been documentaries about

that rivalry. And then you said it, you are stepping in, not even just the players.

You got Scotty Bowman on the bench. Do you ever think about, I mean, that team changed the game in

a lot of different ways, right? And not just the Russians coming in, but I love, we talked about on

the show many times, Steve Iserman changing to that two-way player, which really, I mean,

you can tell me, was kind of the linchpin of what turned the Red Wings from kind of dreamers into

really one of the greatest championship teams in history. So I just, can we stay on that for just

one second about... the the level of professionalism you mentioned professionalism but from a fan

standpoint i mean i don't know if there was ever a team higher than that team and what they

accomplished and it lasted for for 15 years yeah and it was building you know it was it was

building the years before it's not like it just happened right and so right we had some tough

losses in 94.

Well, they went to the Stanley Cup in 95, right? I was a young buck coming out of Michigan and a

practice player there. Lost in New Jersey, four straight, 95 this short year. And then I think

Florida won. Colorado started coming on. And then they had this incident during the playoffs where

Claude Lemieux hit Chris Draper, broke his jaw. And that really fueled like this.

And they tweaked the team a little bit. They got rid of Keith Primo, who's a really hard-nosed

player, and brought in Brendan Shanahan. They made some tweaks here and there, and I think it was

Shanahan that really kind of pushed him over the edge, his leadership. His toughness,

his scoring ability, kind of could play it any which way he wanted to do it. And, I mean, Keith

Primo could too. Keith Primo turned out having a great career. It was just they needed something to

tweak everything a little bit and bring in him. So it had been building, you know. And so, like I

said, that team, Steve was buying it. Steve was morphing his career a little bit. He had some real

good young up-and-coming players. Nick Litstrom was really coming into his own. You had

Konstantinov, who was an absolute animal. You had the Russian guys.

Then internally, you had guys like Chris Draper and Darren McCarty, Kirk Mopey, were really coming

in to be that third and fourth line, agitating, just grinding type team. They started checking all

the boxes you need in a championship team. As far as skill, had that toughness. Skill with

toughness had that. Just regular toughness. Could skate, could do everything. Veterans,

guys who fill roles, play their roles, and do it really well. As a young player,

it certainly... know, you're getting a crash course on what a championship team looks like, and

you're seeing it in person. So certainly very interesting. And then those games with Detroit and

Colorado you touched on. I mean, both teams, even Colorado was an absolute machine. They were

wagging too in Detroit, and they would just beat the hell out of each other to get through each

other. I mean, it was amazing. It was no joke. I mean, people talk about playoff hockey these days.

Like, just go back and watch any game from 1990.

my god it's like whoever's left standing at the end it was yeah savage it was beautiful it was it

was everything i mean plays were being made guys were killing each other it's just it was it was

mean hockey like it was tough right hockey so well uh it was a crash course at a unique time in the

league for sure mike i'll tell you what i i was a teenager when this was happening And I'll tell

you what I took away. I think the non-fans saw that as just savagery and hockey's hockey.

What I saw that as is, man, I got to stick up for my teammates like that. I mean, that's what we

took away from that. It wasn't just the fighting. I mean, there was plenty of that. Don't get me

wrong. But it was like, wow, I got to stick up for my team like that. So I think there was actually

a massive positive influence from those games. And the fact that we talk about it, dare I say,

30 years later. Yeah, yeah.

One of the things you just brought up there, though, is patience, right? Patience to build the

championship team. Again, you were drafted. There was patience to get to the NHL.

Patience is something that's lacking horribly in youth hockey today. And I want to have a quick

discussion with you and Mike about how can families be patient knowing that Everyone is

experiencing FOMO. The game itself at the youth level is not exactly situated for patience,

but patience is still an important part when it comes to development. It's an important part when

it comes to finding your place in the game as a player. Can you talk to us for a little bit about

patience and the importance of that in youth hockey? Right, right. So I think, you know, when I was

kind of coming up and through, you didn't. you didn't have this like national reach you didn't know

like what what the heck was going on outside your neighborhood kind of so you know i think that

really helped the mental part of it i've raised two boys uh in the system here i had one currently

playing kalamazoo wings in the east coast league won a national championship with western michigan

last year and played in the ushl and played tier one on the way up my other one's a flyers draft

pick plays at notre dame played in the ushl junior hockey player of the year,

moonlighted, didn't play for the program, moonlighted with them a little bit, and then played tier

one on the way up. So, and I coach both boys, you know, one is a 2000,

one's an 04. So this level of player and what's going on in youth hockey is,

you talk about patience, it's certainly patience. I found, you know, when kids are 13, 14, some are

growing up, some are growing. faster than others um some excel right out of the gate some are quote

unquote the best 13 year old in the country uh while others still haven't lost their baby teeth um

you know others have a mustache at age 14 and others are barely you know you know they they you

know their voice hasn't dropped yet or anything like that so that you know it this it's very

difficult because um People see things around them, how fast things are moving for certain people,

how slow they move for other people. And it gets very hard because we're all in a world where it's

like things happen now and I need it now. And if it's not happening now, what can I do to make it

happen now? But hockey is such a huge patience game. And players move ahead of other players.

Players fall behind. Players develop. This guy grew as a 15-year-old. Holy cow, he wasn't on the

radar. But now look at him. His growth spurt kicked in. Players develop early.

You see kids who grow really large, young, may lack in some other skills where players who are

smaller and become more agile and have their head up more because they had to survive a different

way. Now, when they catch up in size and that, they're a different player than the bigger kid who's

blessed with size in the beginning. So the whole thing is patience as far as, you know, how your

child grows, how your child develops, you know, and where that leads them down the path.

I think the hardest thing as parents is trying to understand what path your son is on,

your son or daughter is on, as far as how they're going to grow, how they like the game,

how they see the game, where it fits in their life, and understanding all that and letting things

kind of fall into line without, you know. without getting your hands all over it too much. And I

alluded to before in the beginning of my thing, it's just for the most important part is the kid

just playing and being in a good environment to play a lot and keep improving. And I know it's not

that simple. It really isn't. And patience is extremely difficult. It's difficult for everybody.

It's difficult for the player. It's difficult for the parents. It's difficult for everybody around

them. um the key is to have them in good environments and and where they have a chance to grow and

to fail and to succeed and and and and what and and be in an environment where they want to come

back and play hockey every day where they want to come play hockey next year and they want to

return and they want to give it another go and and and hopefully fall in love with the game so

patience is this and i feel like me talking about it now is this is this is just the tip of the

iceberg as far as is that but uh patience is extremely extremely difficult thing to to maintain and

in your in your player and in your family now you can say mike mike i always joke about how we've

got a we've got a whole nation of veruca salts from willy wonka i want it now and it's like where

we're at and then just to support your point before i throw it to mike Bonelli you know there is we

always say this there is no one path Right. Everybody always talks about the journey. There is no

one path. A report just came out recently. It's a funny one because I always tell people the

results still indicate the same thing. The report was that, well, early talented players tend to

not make it. And I said, well, most players tend to not make it. It's like it doesn't change the

journey. All that says is that, you know, if you're great when you're nine, it doesn't guarantee

anything. Right. Because there is no one path. Mike, I'm sure Bonelli, I'm sure you have a comment

about that too, but all these reports come out. It just, it all dictates the same thing. There is

no path. There is no button you can press to get to the pros and you shouldn't be thinking about it

that way anyway. Well, even further on that, let's not. You can't even call pro hockey the finished

product because even when you get to pro hockey, you have a path, right? Right. So you're still on

another path. I mean, you get, sure, you sign an NHL deal. Some guys go right to the NHL. Some guys

are toiling in the American League for a year. Some are there for two years. Some are there for two

and a half years. Some are traded then again. I mean, so the pathway never ends. And people,

your path is never done to the day they won't give you a jersey again. Your path is done. That's

it. Even when you're in the NHL, my path, my path, I was a third and fourth liner. I played for a

while. I probably played five, six years as a third and fourth liner. My path switched. I caught a

break. I played with Joe Thornton and Glenn Murray. All of a sudden I scored 30 goals. My pathway

just changed again. So it's never, your path is never done. I think that your patience is never

done. The grind is never done. I get the feeling that people think there's some end point to this

whole thing. And there really isn't. Your end point is when nobody will give you a contract.

anymore and you're done playing as a professional that's your end point until then your path is

moving all over the place and and you're spotting the lineup and your your role on a team and free

agency and this and that your path is never changing and that's even as a pro you got to be patient

you know you you get signed a pro deal you're you're patient the minors because you're not getting

called up tomorrow but coaching in america i've seen many guys oh i'll be here two weeks Here I am

those two weeks later, all of a sudden you're a month later, all of a sudden you're six weeks

later. You're waiting for the phone to ring, but again, you go back to the player. Man, you need to

stop worrying about your call-up. You need to be patient down here and you need to just play. You

need to play hockey. You have no chance of that phone ringing. You have no chance of my phone

ringing in the coach's office to look for you to come up to the major leagues because you're not

playing good hockey down here. So again, the patience thing. It never ends.

It really never ends. As a player, as everybody, the good thing is when players are pros,

the parents can kind of check out because now it's your career. It's your individual career. The

parents are like, I have nothing to do with it. This is my son's career, my daughter's career.

Like, again, the patience thing, it never ends. It never ends. I think understanding that patience

piece and understanding what you came through, right, and you just alluded to it,

like your game certainly. change and you had to tweak it and you had to be patient within your own

career. And I think, you know, I would say that you probably weren't ever classified as a perimeter

player. You know, somebody that's going to, you know, lay out by the boards and kind of be a soft

guy around the offensive zone. Can you talk a little bit about, you know,

the fact that you earned a lot of these opportunities because of the way you played, you know,

being in the house, being in hard areas near the crease and how that earned you the opportunity.

to then work your way into maybe a different lineup with different players from a third and fourth

liner to now a top line player doing the certain things that we look for in the game and how you

evolved with that. And what was your mindset going into that? Because I'm sure you were very

talented. You were probably a very talented player, right? So I was like, I'm a really talented

player. Like, why do I have to go in there and do that? Like, and so, but you had to do it at some

point to get to where you were. Right. So, and again, you know, I probably played four or five, six

years, you know, floundering around third or fourth line, skating up and down my wing, you know,

kind of hoping the puck comes to you and stuff like that. And I don't know, I got to a point and I

was in Boston and. You know, I had a chance to play with Joe Thornton and Glenn Murray.

There was an injury up front, Sergey Sampsov. They were debuting left-wingers. They were trying to

figure out who can play left-wing with these guys, who can play, who can play. Well, they went

through five or six people and finally got to me. And I don't know what happened, but I figured

out. And, you know, I had some skill for sure. You know, I felt, you know, I'd scored my way in

college. I scored a bunch in the American League. So I knew I was, you know, I knew I was close,

but scoring the NHL is a whole nother thing. So I kind of figured out, well, I kind of have some

skill. And I've said, well, if these two guys need the puck a lot, like I probably should go get

them a puck. And I'm like, well, I should probably go make myself valuable and go get the puck for

them and help them get the puck. Because when they get it, good things happen. Now, if they're

wasting all their time. chasing down pucks, then nothing good's going to happen on our line. I have

to go get the puck for them and at least do something out here to make myself valuable. So that

kind of became my MO and my thought of complimenting those guys and digging out pucks for them.

Sure enough, pass to Joey, pass to Glenn, Glenn shoot it, goes in the net. Right. So I'm like,

okay, well, this is pretty rewarding. Like, all right, well now, now where's the puck a lot?

Where's the puck end up a lot? Well, a lot of times below the goal lines, it's either out of the

point being past D to D or it's in zone. And it's, it's, you know, it's below the goal line in the

corners and around the net. And I'm like, all right, well, I should probably be hanging around

there because if I'm going to chase a puck around all day, I'm going to be chasing. It's like a dog

chasing its tail. You're going to be late all over the ice. You're never going to be where it's

supposed to be. But what the thing kids and young players realize, it always has to come to one.

spot the goal is to get the puck to come to one spot right in front of the net right you got to

enter the net through the front you can't enter the net through the sideboards you can't enter the

net way over there it always enters from the same area so i felt well that puck seems to be coming

around there a lot i might want to hang around there a bit more and obviously i'm blessed with the

size and stuff that i could stick my nose in there and this was a hard time to play this is before

2004 when Guys like Darian Hatcher and Chris Pronger and Scott Stevens.

And, you know, like they had wood sticks. Not all of them were using synergies, which are kind of

late sticks. They were still the old bower sticks and they stung like they hurt. You know, there's

a lot of. They didn't let you just stand there. Yeah, you didn't want to stand there very long. And

it was hard, right? You went there and you got your rear end handed to you. You come out of there

and you got stuff all over your arms. Your shoulders are sore. Your back sore. You're like, holy

cow. that's that kind of kept guys from going around there but you know so in conjunction with 2004

the rules opening up a little bit more it got a little bit easier to play around there frankly and

and those guys were limited in what they could do uh around there so um again going back to my

opportunity then all of a sudden you know things go well for our line now they keep throwing me

back on the ice now i'm on the power play so i found this way to compliment guys and and and i love

and and for me that's the way it worked now These days, you know, there's a lot more skill.

The game's a lot faster. The game's different than it was in 2004 to 2012 when I finished up. It's

a lot faster game now. But that puck still, as far as I know, puck's still got to go to the same

spot. You still store goals in the same spot. And I think young players, and I've had many

conversations with young players in the American League, at the youth level, pro guys. Pro guys,

you can relate to money. They're like, you want to make a million dollars in a league or you want

to make four? And that's how you get guys' attention. You know, like, oh, what are you talking

about? You know, okay, so now I'm going to talk about start hanging around the net, hang around the

net. You'll pick up five to 10 more goals. You pick up five to 10 more assists. Used to be a 20

point guy. Now you're a 35, 40 point guy. Now you're going to get more ice time. So your 40 points

are going to go to 50 and 60. And all of a sudden you're up for a contract and you're up for a big

deal, right? But players feel that's like a dumb way to play hockey. And I don't get it.

It seems like the smartest, easiest way to play hockey is to be around the net, where the pucks are

going to show up and where the puck has to go every time. And for me, that got me another 10 or 12

years in the league. So that's my argument, and I'm sticking to it. Well, listen, Mike,

I remember you scoring. Our fans are going to roll their eyes. I remember a pretty big goal in

Philadelphia in front of the net against the Washington Capitals one year from you. It was a

similar thing about going to the net. But I want to bring up here with youth hockey. You're

absolutely right. You know, one of the things when I coach that blows my mind, I really try and

work with the kids on this, is there's this real problem where they take a shot from anywhere and

just kind of, that's it. They kind of watch the shot. And I really dig into my kids of after you

shoot, you go to the net, you put your stick down. I said, if it goes in the net, you'll know,

right? But I said, just the act of stick down, going for that rebound, stick down.

Even when you don't have the puck, obviously. I mean, you talk about the NHL, what that'll do for

you. In youth hockey, you're going to double or triple how many goals you get because you said that

the puck is still going there. So I'd love to hear from both of you on that from just a youth

hockey standpoint, especially the kids listening. You know, you can't just have this, I took a

beautiful shot top right from the bottom of the circle. It's, I shot it, get to the net.

Or my teammate shot it, get to the net, stick down. That instinct. which you probably call killer

instinct, but that instinct to be there will create goals. And just to harness this,

if I'm not mistaken, the stat in the NHL, and this is way more in youth hockey, is that half the

goals scored in pro hockey are second chance opportunities. They are rebounds.

They are something happening in front of the net. Just to prove your point, Mike, what you just

said, half of the goals scored are from this. So why are we not training that?

with every single drill.

Yeah, well, I'll just speak on one side of this, and then Mike, and I'd love Mike's opinion about

having watched, you know, hundreds of youth hockey practices, his own kids going through practice.

This is where I will probably differ, you know, with a player to not listen to your coach.

If you shoot the puck in practice, Go to the net. I watch every practice,

and it's a shoot and curl. I had a great coach mentor that I had. He goes,

you want to be really good at shoot and loop? Shoot and loop. That's all you do in practice. You go

down, hey, coach, my kids don't go to the net. Because every single drill you have is they're

shooting at the top of the circle, and you force them to get to the line as quick as possible so

the next drill can go. I think this is where our mindset of, it's great to be able to say,

do it. But unless you have those reps and at least at least and you and you you go out there and

you honor the fact that a kid did that and expose the fact that look at that kid, that Knuble kid

shot net, shot net, shot net. And I think that's and if you do that in practice and that's the

mindset you put into the game is easy. The game all of a sudden you find yourself around the net.

And I think that's where I think that's where the flash today. Right, Mike, of of the. the kids

tick handling to the deviator 17 times along the wall is not really indicative of what the game

should be played like. And there are, there's certain obviously benefits to that piece, but

ultimately, like you just said, that's, what's great about the sport of hockey. There's actually an

end point. Like there's, there's a place that we all know we have to get to at some point to win.

And that's very clearly defined with these red pipes in the middle of the, in the middle of the

ring. Yeah. It's so like, For me, it's a coaching thing,

right? So the kids are a blank slate. They don't know what they don't know. And so many times in my

career at various levels, I've had coaches say, you shoot the puck, you go right to the net, and

you touch the post. Whatever happens, you go, and it's automatic. So you have to build it in. In

September, you start your teams going, you know what we're doing? Every time we drill, every time

we do our first three drills, which are shooting drills for the goalies, you get your reps in, get

your skating, get your skill touches in. Every time we're shooting a puck to the net, we follow it,

we stop, we touch the post, and then we go to our line. Or you stop and you're waiting for the next

puck and you put the rebound in. And I've had coaches be like, I don't care. I want you in. And

these are habits. Anytime you shoot a puck on goal, whether a goalie's looking at you or not, you

go find it, go put it in the net. You go find it. Goes in the corner, too bad. Before you get in

line, you won't get the puck. Have it. Have it. Stop at the net. Touch the post. Have it stop.

You're waiting for the next shot. You put the next player's rebound in. You go to the line. That

player just shot fills in. He stops, comes back for you. Okay? And those are coaching things. Those

are on the coaches to not let a kid go and turn and return to the net. You go, you shot, you stop,

and you're at the net. You don't go in the corner and take this big long loop and mail it in for me

and come back, right? You go, you stop. So, for me, a lot of this is on coaches. It's on coaching,

not the players, because they don't know what they don't know. Go ahead, Mike. You're going to say

something. And our other show, Our Kids Play Goalie. Every goalie coach would say the same thing.

You want to make your goalies better? Then get in their face, stop in the crease, battle for the

puck, let them finish plays. If you want lazy players that shoot and curl, then just do that for 60

minutes. And if you want a goalie that can't track and stop a puck on a rebound, then do that for

60 minutes. So I think your point is, like, that's the consistency, and that's where we have to

take a step back a little bit. Sorry, I've got a little... I'm thinking about all the practices

I've been watching in the last two weeks. Like, oh my God, guys, just slow your practice down. Let

it become the game. Let the goalies be goalies. Let the shooters be shooters. Let the rebounders be

rebounders. And then we all become these great byproducts of great habits.

And that's what it actually looks like when you get to a game. And I think we all, like not all,

too many coaches just want to go through the... system of the drill and don't understand that the

end game of the drill is to either create some havoc, create a rebound, stop a puck and freeze it,

or, you know, play for hunting pucks. We don't do that. We shoot and we say, Oh, that's not my puck

anymore. I don't have to worry about it. Right. Right. There are some times in your, in your

coaching, in your menu or your. you know your plan for the day your coaching plan for the day where

you just you know i'm trying to get some shots here i need to go get some touches i need that and

you might not ask for it but you can still you can still have you can still get that stopping

mentality touching touching the net going to the net all that stuff um but you know then later on

in your plan you're doing other drills you've got to create and i get that too sometimes i It

depends what you're working on as a team, right? So maybe you're, you know, you're really working

on this aspect of it. I'm saying I'm working on two-on-ones. I really want my two-on, I'm

working on the attack portion, right? And then what, you got to let it, sometimes you got to let it

play out and let them play and keep playing. And now your goalies. You know, your goalies need a

little break too. They, you know, they're the ones that, you know, that, that are in on every rush

and players aren't, the goalies are in on the rush. They're going to be like, coach, I need a break

here, you know, but to let things play out. And I know you're so worried about getting through your

plan and getting the reps in. I need my guys moving. I need them moving and playing that you've got

to finish rushes. And, and it's really hard. Like I'll moonlight at somebody's practice. I'll jump

into somebody's practice, give them a help. And I'm like, I'm like watching and I'm like. I just

watch kids take a shot and take off. I'm like, why are you guys playing that out? You've got to

play that puck out. What are you going to do in a game? You're not going to bird dog that puck.

You've got to stay on the puck and hunt it again, right? So those habits you have in practice, what

are your players going to do in a game? They're not going to track second pucks because they

haven't been doing it in practice, right? They don't have that dog-on-a-bone mentality where

they're going to do it. So I think coaching, I think getting coaches, you have to really analyze.

It's on you, really. You know, when you have young kids, it's on you because, like I said, they're

a blank slate. They're not trained. They don't know what they don't know. But that's up to you to

harp on your details. And you don't have to harp on 10 or 12 different things. You've got to pick

your three or four that are important to you and that you're trying to get for your kids. you get

those three and four for two months now you can get a three or four because you can move off those

because they're already in their brains and they're doing them every day now you can maybe add in a

couple more and back off those because they're just doing them on their own but now you add a

couple more things and move on to something else so um again that that's that's on coaching to me

that's on coaches to be sticklers about those points right seems common sense right but uh you know

that's like i look at that and i'm like you know if you're if you're and i love that bird dog

mentality idea like i use that reference a lot like if i'm out hunting pheasant And I let my dog

just go get the bird and then go chew it up in the corner. That's what he's going to do. He's never

going to bring it back to me, right? So you have to train. You have to put those situations over

and over and over and over again in a good, positive way. and then really train the looping out of

the player. And more importantly, don't let it get in. I'm going to stay on this for one more

minute too. I joke on this episode of our coaches are angry.

Our coaches are excited. I like that. Our coaches are passionate.

A lot of these things, we're talking about the habit, they become muscle memory. Right. And and

again, Mike, you bring it up to it's about the coaching. You know, you mentioned a few minutes ago

about like when the goalies are warming up, communicate. I tell my goalies, look, I want all of the

skaters going to the net. You don't have to go for the rebound in the warm up. OK, like if you

don't want to play the rebound, don't play the rebound. I understand. But just communicate that to

them. Right. Because like they need to get warmed up, too. But, you know, a funny story about how

this becomes a habit. I was taught this to go to the net. all the time and i always went to the net

my first year coaching pro in europe um i had to jump into a drill right so i'm in my track suit

i'm jumping into this drill and i i think i've mentioned this was before the best goalie in the

league and i took a shot and i just mental like just complete muscle memory went for my rebound and

i ran into this guy and like full-on ran into him and i'm bleeding like crazy from the face and

i'm thinking i'm getting fired and i remember he got up he goes i wish players went to net like you

I just remember him saying that. But, like, it was ingrained in my game that you shoot and go to

the net. And, again, I always – coach is just some advice. I always tell the players, again, I said

earlier, if it goes in, you'll know, and you can celebrate all you want. But what I see a lot in

youth hockey games is it either misses the entire net and I get the eye roll head back.

And, kids, that frustrates the heck out of me. Or the other one that we've seen, Mike,

to your point. is you'll shoot and curl and the rebound's there. I mean, that's a shot.

That's probably a goal. So coaches, when you're breaking it down, like we talk about, a lot of

coaches are focused on breakouts and these intricate plays. You've really got to break down these

situations into what are the skill sets you need? What are the muscle memory things that you need

to build to create an effective whatever, chance on net, breakout, right? And going to the net

after a shot, in my opinion. is one of the easiest habits to build because the coach just has to

implement it, right? And I'm sure we could talk about there's other habits too, like always facing

the play, always facing the puck, don't turn your back to the puck. These are such important

things, especially at the younger ages, to teach these kids that will completely transform not just

the players, but the team. Am I right on this? Yeah. Yeah. It, you know what? It's, it's very

demanding on these coaches. It's one thing when you're a paid coach and you have to do, you know,

most guys are, you know, have eight, nine year old kids. They're hustling from work, you know,

they're like trying to, you know, they're, they're having a traffic. I'm trying to get here. I'm

here five minutes before. Okay. What are we doing today? I'm looking at my two assistants. Nobody's

thought about it because they got work problems. And so it's, it's hard to have that energy to

focus on that. And it's so important. Right. So. You know, I think when coaches spend more time

with the players at age 13 and 14, they spend six months undoing the habits that kids have picked

up from 8, 9, and 10 that have never been dealt with before. So now you get a good coach.

Like toe dragging at the blue line. And you're like, where did you guys learn this stuff? Like

what? But, you know, again, through no intent, nobody's intent and purpose or trying to.

It's the way life comes at you. You know, when you have an eight or nine year old. Right.

And you go back to the archives and listen to all our advice on, you know, building programming and

communicating lesson plans. And I think that's what we've talked about for five years. Just, you

know, changing the culture of, you know, what the train coach does, like what they how they prepare

for a season, whether you're a volunteer or a paid person, you know, leveraging all the tools that

are out there. And I think, you know, one of the tools that I want to leverage is, you know, for

our families right now is. You obviously have two sons that are very successful in the game right

now. And what I always like to hear is kind of the secret sauce. And I can almost guarantee that

when I hear your answer, it'll be very similar to all of the answers we get from most NHL hockey

dads that have kids. But what are some of the things that were really important to you in the

conversation? that you had with your boys growing up, not at 18 and 19,

but at 10 and 11, what was your perspective of their development from you from a parent and off the

ice and before training or after games? What did those conversations look like? Yeah,

that's a good question because it's really kind of all over the place. I think, you know, Being an

NHL player and having kids and any NHL guys you have in there, I mean, it's your lifestyle.

It's your life, right? So it's kind of rammed down their throat a little bit from the beginning,

right from the crib, right? It's kind of rammed down their throat. Now, whether they take to it or

not is a different question. We were always very lucky that, you know, the boys started playing in

Philadelphia. They started playing, you know, kept going in Washington. We were in towns with

decent programs. And then when we kind of wrapped up, we had a plan to move back to Michigan. uh

and continue their progress there so so what we would always provide and even my daughter is a

lacrosse player and this applies to lacrosse applies to every other sport we we would say we we i

think our and we were lucky enough we would say we're not we're not gonna like what's that's a

negative like not push you not not push you but we're gonna we're always fortunate we're always

gonna provide you with the best opportunity that we can right And if there's a top team that you,

you need to play on and you qualify and you make that team, well, you're going to play in that

team. And same with my daughter, you need to go to Maryland to go play lacrosse. You're going, you

know, like we can do that, you know? And, and that's, we're always felt like that. We'll give you

the best opportunity to play at the highest level that you can play. Now you get to a point when

they're eight or nine and 10 and you, you, as a parent, you have to have your, your, you know, your

kid goggles on and you're like, well. Let's be realistic here. Let's step back. Is he having fun?

Is he or she having fun enjoying this? Are they competitive? Are they productive on the teams? Are

they getting better? Are they in a good environment? All these things, you have to sort of make

these adjustments where you think your player lies, right? And the player, after they get to be 10

or 11 years old, they'll tell you exactly where they're going to play. They tell you by their body

language. They tell you by their compete. They tell you by the smile on their face. They tell you

by their skill development. They tell you by how hard it is to get them to practice. You know,

are they excited to go to the games? Are they excited to go to practice? They tell you everything.

So as much as we provide for them. by the age 10 or 11, 12, they tell you kind of what they're in

line for and what they're down with, you know? And so is there a magic sauce?

No. But again, if they're interested and they're that, yep, we'll find, you know,

we have access to this program. We can get you here. We can get you there. If you qualify and

you're good enough, then you'll play. And everything you can take, everything you can absorb,

we're fortunate enough to, our thought was like. We're going to lay it. We'll put it out there for

you. It's up to you to grab it. Is everybody like that in every family? No, probably not. But

that's kind of the way we went through it and said, if you're into it and you're liking it and

you're competitive and you're smiling and we can tell your body language you're having fun, then

we're going to provide you the opportunity. And that's kind of the way my wife and I thought about

it. You know, Mike, we talk a lot on the show about... The love of the game,

which is essential to succeed in the game. You can't succeed without a love for the game. And

speaking to the parents out there and the way you parented your kids, there seems to be an

understanding of you can't create the love. You can cultivate the love. So adversely,

and I'm going to say it pretty poignantly here, where I see a lot of parents fail is the immense

amount of pressure they put on their kids. Because maybe they love the game, or maybe they're

overachievers, and they're not seeing that out of their 10-year-old, which is not crazy.

Some 10-year-olds have that, and some 10-year-olds don't. Can we maybe comment on the other

side of that culture of the forced pressure? Look, I'm not saying not to...

push your kids like i always exactly clarify that like i'm not saying no just they're delicate and

no you should be talking about hard work and effort these are very important elements but you can't

put your dreams and your wants that pressure on them there's already enough pressure in the game

right so how do you find that balance yeah again that's you know, what I was alluding to is like,

we're always going to provide opportunity and, and, and pushing, pushing is, is a, is a, is a word,

but, but again, it's pushing within the parameters of what your player is telling you they can

handle. Right. And, and as far as everything. So a lot of times for parents that, that becomes a

moment and you have an epiphany and it might be with your wife sitting down over dinner and you're

like, you know what, like. I, I, I don't know if this is the right spot for our son or our

daughter. I really don't, you know, cause you know, you've really got, it's a really hard part as a

parent to step back and be objective. And we all have rose colored glasses on our kid.

And we were like, why doesn't the coach, she and my kid, what I, you know, why is he getting this

attention? Why isn't he or she getting that? Why, what, what do they see? What, what don't they see

that I see? You know, and it's really the most difficult part of parenting in sports, I think, is

to step back and be objective and really look at your son or daughter and say, how do they truly

fit in here? What is really going on? And if I'm Joe Blow off the street and you're looking at my

son, what are they going to see? And you've got to like, you have to like compartmentalize yourself

from being a parent. And like, you have to move yourself to a different box and be like, okay. I'm

looking at my son or daughter much differently and I need to be really realistic here. And you know

what? It might not be on the tip top team. It might not be a tier one player. Maybe you're a great

tier two player. And you're going to have a hell of a hockey experience and have a great journey as

a family and enjoy the whole process and have a great time and make your adjustments along the way

and have your son or daughter be. an excellent hockey player at the age of 17, 18,

and then go off to college and find their way and keep playing hockey in college just a different

way. You might not be in Civil A Division I. The ACHA programs are unbelievable going on right now

if you want to play at a higher level. Maybe that turns into your goal. And maybe your goal at 12

and 13 is different than what it is at 15 and 16. And those are hard times in families where you've

got to kind of readjust and readjust your buoys a little bit. Like, okay, this is our lane. This is

our lane we're in right now. And this is where we see them in the future. And again, if he or she

turns into being a hell of a player, they'll play themselves right back out of that lane. I think a

lot of it's, too, the byproduct of what we do at Youth Hockey. We're in a time frame right now

where we're seeing all the tryout flyers and all the posts and all the Instagram stuff and all the

Facebook, you know, super elite, AAA, 58 games a year, full uniforms,

blah, blah, blah. And nobody's saying, hey, we're just a place that you couldn't come here and your

kid's going to be in a safe environment and they're going to have a hell of a lot of fun. And I

don't think we have any value in that. It's crazy as a parent that everything, like, does

everything have to revolve around being an elite, world-class athlete? Because nobody's getting

there. One percent, Mike Canoble, that's it. Like, right? And I think, like, the rest of us are

mortals. And the rest of us love playing. And the rest want to go to a rink, be in a safe

environment, be with coaches that love their kids, be with other kids that love being with their

kid. And I think we all get caught up in like the end game having to be that if you didn't become

an elite athlete, you failed. And I don't think that and I think that's the and that's getting it

happens to look. I run a lacrosse program. All I see is I can't play rec lacrosse.

I can't play talent lacrosse. I'm like, why? Our field's nicer than any field you're ever going to

go to. Like, it's a ball, it's a stick, it's a net. Go play. And I think that's where we have to

have that, not lower expectation, but have a little bit better,

clearer picture that. What are we setting our kids up for? Let me jump in here, Mike.

And are we giving them the right path? Look, I'm an interesting point. And again, I mentioned prior

to the show, Mike, to you that when the show started, my oldest was just starting hockey.

And where we sit today, he's about halfway through. After this year, he'll be his second year at

Pee Wee. And now I know that the trajectory after 12 is different than before 12.

But I can tell all the parents this that are in the first half of this journey. The coolest thing.

that I've experienced, and I've seen my son win. You know, he's a goaltender. I've seen a lot of

cool things. The coolest experience for me as a father was when he came up to me unprompted and

just said, Dad, I love hockey so much. That was the coolest moment of the first half of this

journey because, you know, and again, just on top of it, I know that because I'm not fighting him

to get out to bed with the early games. I'm not fighting him to get to practice. He wants to be

there. That is, as someone who played, like, you know. that's the coolest thing in the world for

me. And it was organically done, right? I'm sure my experience in the game plays a role in him

being aware of it, but his love of the game is his love of the game. And I'm seeing that in my

daughter now too. She said, I love going to the ring. That is, again, I'm putting myself on a

pedestal a little bit here, but it's like, to me, like, man, I succeeded in the first half of this

journey. Now the second half, we're going to keep Mike Bonelli and christie on this show for eight

more years for me. But the second half of this journey, is is a little bit different and I'm kind

of gearing up for that now but I just wanted to say that like if that's not the bar of I love this

that's the bar for me like that's all I wanted for them for this half now if they get serious from

here from that 12-13 yeah my my messaging may change a little bit you know based on what I believe

it takes to to succeed right and and Mike I do want to mention too thanks for bringing up the ACHA

because you know the college hockey scene now is vastly grown since since you played or since mike

and i played um so there's there's a path for everybody if you want to keep going i should say that

i think we had we had uh we had college hockey inc out speaking to a group of 200 athletes that we

have out here on the east coast and the faces of these kids you know when they showed the

statistics i felt so bad i'm like oh maybe we should that we probably should have had these guys in

but because there's so many other opportunities for kids and it doesn't have to be you know and

we've done a million shows on just all of stuff that revolves around hockey But Mike, don't you

think like the joy of watching your kids compete and the joy of watching your daughter even on the

lacrosse field? That's not I'm assuming it's not your sport, right? That you're watching you're

watching athletes just find those. I mean, isn't that the goal is to find the attributes that they

need as adults, whether they're going to play adult league hockey or professional hockey for the

Washington Capitals? How like what are the other things they're learning? And what are the

attributes that we're giving them from eight until 18? That really ends up being the most important

thing. And I think a lot of people in our space really, really forget that.

And so there's much more successes if you look at it from that perspective than how many kids

signed an NHL contract. Yeah, I know. It's, you know, the things you learn, you know, as a kid

going through and, you know, sacrifice and.

People talk about players sacrificing to play hockey and this and that.

Other kids who are staying home, partying with their friends, they're sacrificing things too to

stay home and do that. It's not like that is the whole thing. Sacrificing to play hockey means

you're sacrificing dead time and other time that you're going to get in trouble with other people.

Those are things you learn. how you can be productive and what you're doing with your time,

the failures, the successes, showing up every day, showing up consistently every day,

no matter what, you know, practice is Tuesday and Thursday. And no matter what's going on with the

team, we're out there, we're practicing hard, you know, winning, losing the good times,

the bad times and being on the road and making friends from all over and just enjoying yourself.

I mean, there's so many things that you're learning. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's a,

it's a really fun time and it's, you know, it's, it's, it's the, the lessons are valuable.

And again, I go back to the coaching and it's, it really is on the coaches and, and, and,

and creating that environment. Like you touched on before your first half of your journey. You

know, from 5 to 11, their coach's job is to make sure the boys want to play hockey next year,

right? And make sure they're coming with a smile on their face and be back.

And then, like you said, at 12 or 13, you get a little more – maybe you're starting to get a little

more serious, a little more heavy about it. But those lessons that you learn when you're young and

getting in the locker room and dealing with kids, you might not necessarily – You know, everybody

doesn't get along all the time, but working through that and becoming great teammates and your

teammates above everything else. And it's a different relationship than kids you're in school. You

know, you kind of have this real common thing that you're all doing together. And I give it to the

families, too. You know, the families that they sacrifice. to, to, to, to be in sports and do that.

I mean, I say that all the time. You don't see, you see hockey families more than you see your best

friends in life. Right. Families give up on ski trips and they give up on vacations.

They give up on time with their grandparents and they give up time with everything to do this for

their kids. You know, you got to enjoy that journey and spend that time. That's such quality time

with your family and the stories you figure out on the road and the car breaking down. And this

time we ate here and this food was the best and this food was the worst. And then we did this and

we've left them or that one time we left our gear a hundred miles on the road. We didn't realize we

had our, we didn't have our hockey bag. I mean, those are things that those are the moments that

make families. Right. And those are, those are the things that when you come home from college and

you're back at Thanksgiving and you're having a beer with your dad and you're 21, he's like, man, I

could have. your neck you remember you were 12 years old you left a bag at the at the arena because

you're out in la la land worried about what's on your phone versus forgetting your gear and we got

100 miles down the road i had a fedex your gear down there the next day cost me 200 bucks but you

know those are the memories you have you know so those are those are things and what kids should

remember that time in the car and all that stuff and one of one of my those are great things one of

my mantras is when we're in a tough spot I'll say, don't worry, one day this will all be a memory.

One day this will all be a memory that we laugh at. A few other mantras on that note, Mike,

with coaches, for the coaches listening. One of my mantras or one of my sayings is don't ever be a

kid's last coach. Don't ever be a reason a kid leaves the game. And you've got to keep that pretty

high up on the list when you're making decisions. And look, we all make mistakes, including myself

as coaches. It's inevitable, but never be a kid's last coach. And then the other thing, too, is,

you know, we use that word sacrifice. I forgot what guest we had on not too long ago, but she made

a great point. She goes, they're sacrifices, but they're also choices. Like we're making choices,

right? You can look at it as a sacrifice, but no matter what you do in your life, you're going to

make a choice where something else does not win. Our Olympian co-host is like we just had a

conversation that Q&A like like kids would call in or write in and be like, oh, my God,

like like this is such a sacrifice. But if you're if you're in that boat, right, if you're an NHL,

AHL, NCAA player competing for the top plays, you know,

with the top players in the world, that's what's. about how parents have to look at this and kids

like, you don't see that as a sacrifice. That is not the sacrifice.

The sacrifice is not eating right, not getting enough sleep, not training properly,

giving up early on a drill. That is sacrificing. And I think that's where people that aren't in

that mentality and can't put themselves in the brain of an elite competitor,

that's where they lose that, right? They don't see that, to them that's not a sacrifice right all

right i i i touched on a little bit i didn't do a great job explaining you know people like oh you

sacrifice your high school dance you sacrifice this and that well all the kids who are at the dance

and staying out late and drinking beer when they're 15 and stuff they're certainly sacrificing

something too so right you know everybody's again here's one you know which one are you going to

sacrifice you go you don't have to feel bad for the kids who are you know missing a high school

dance because they quote unquote sacrifice because they're playing a hockey game or whatever. You

know, feel bad for the high school kid that's really sacrificing doing anything, you know, great

outside, you know, and achieving something greater for him or her because, you know, they're

drinking beer at 15 or they're staying out late or they can't get off their phone. You know, that's

a sacrifice, too. So that's a little bit of a, you know, you got to maybe change the angle on that

a little bit, too, in my opinion. Yep. Mike, that's a great way of putting it, too. Like everyone's

making a choice and they're sacrificing something. And like we always say on the show, the ROI of

youth sports, not just youth hockey, but hockey is a high one on the list. The ROI is the life

lessons and the memories and the things you earn from that. You know, I wanted to bring this up,

too, before we get to Scotland. You know, you spent some time coaching in the AHL. This might be a

bit of a harsh question, but I want to know what you think of the developing athletes.

What are they missing today that maybe you felt like you had when you played? We talk a lot about

hockey IQ is not what it used to be. What are the foundational things that you would want to see

more of at that level that maybe the youth hockey audience listening can say, you know what, I'm

going to implement that into my game and my coaching style? Yeah, you know what I would tell our

young players? I mean, the world now, so much Instagram, so much Twitter, and like it or not,

it is what it is. But, you know, the kids see the highlights, right? They really skim the top. They

see the highlights. They see the goals. That's what you're alluding to. I don't know if Mike or

Lee, but you're talking about coming down and shooting a puck. They'll try and make that impossible

shot because they know if I get that one out of 100, it's sweet. And somebody's going to tweet it.

And, you know, versus just going to the net and kind of rolling up my sleeves and getting a dirty

one, I'm going to go for that one out of 100. And I say, you know, I've had many conversations with

players, you know, that shot has no chance of going in. And they're like, yeah, if it does, if it

does go in. You know, it's like, that's a highlight. And I'm like, all right, okay. Real team

first. Yeah. Yeah, I know. What I tell my players are like, you know, I'm like, well, you guys

listen to a hockey game. Like just sit down and watch a whole period and just listen to the

announcers and listen to what they talk about. Really listen to the play-by-play guys. In

Michigan, we're really lucky. We have Ken Daniels and Mickey Redman who cover the Red Wings. They

do a great job. And there's some of these guys on ESPN that do a really, really nice job. Ed

Olchek, guys like Kenny Albert, they do a real nice job. Brian Boucher, guys like that, they really

explain the game. And I think you can learn some of that, and you can take that with you and really

start to digest it. Now, when young players come to the American League, again, same thing we

talked about. A lot of them played in junior. They used to get 95 points. in junior you know maybe

they're in junior in college you can get away you know the coaches ah he's he's doing a role for us

especially in junior you see guys with 95 well if i'm a junior coach and i'm gonna get fired if we

don't win i need i need mike out there scoring 95 points i need lee out there cheating a little bit

on defense because this saves my job and i'm not saying all junior coaches like that but you know

hey you got to get wins when you got to get wins and so they get to junior they get to the american

league you're like well you know You got to do a little bit more than that. You know, you got to

come in your own end. It's not come back in your own end and curl and then curl and come back to

the middle. Because when you open up. Our team gets scored on right there. That puck's going right

to the middle where you should have stopped, and we're getting scored on. So, again, we talked

about being eight, nine years old. You get them in 12, 13, breaking those habits. Again, when you

get guys to the American League, you've got to break bad habits because of things that they had to

do to cheat and what they got away with when they were playing junior or in college. And now in the

pro game, that's not going to fly. And an American League guy, you're trying to get them not only

to be. The pressure's on you, not only to get them to the next level of the NHL team, but your goal

as a coach on there is like, when I send you up, I don't ever want to see you again. Not because I

hate you, because I want you to go and you're stuck in the NHL and you're never coming back to the

American League. That's my goal for you. So we're going to work our ass off down here to get you to

change your habits and get you on the right page so that when you get called up to the Red Wings,

you get called up to the Flyers, you get called up to the Bruins, we'll never see you again. And

you are gone and we'll never see you. And that's what our goal is for you. We love you. Love you as

a guy, but we never want to see you again. Right. So there's a reason why there's a reason why

hockey cliches are hockey cliches. Right. When you hear the Canadian bobsled team doing that the

other day, I loved it. Like they're like, we're just going to get pucks in deep. We're going to get

pucks off the wall. We're going to, you know, you know, play play in the safe, play in the safe

spaces and get the job done. You know, my job is to is my job is to back check for check. I mean,

there's a reason why those cliches exist is because that's what's that really at the end of the day

is the game of hockey. All the other stuff going around that. Yeah, of course, we love the kid

doing the Michigan. But if you're doing it in the wrong time. and in the wrong place, then it's not

helping any of us. And I think that's really the juggle we have to have with youth players that,

yes, be creative, but understand that the nitty-gritty, the meat,

potatoes of hockey still are here, and they're still very important, and they're still really

valued. And you can come to that ability to say, well, we can develop both ends of that.

then you have a player that can you guys are both bringing up a we always like to give actionable

items right for the audience you know a great question parents or kids listening that you can ask

your coach is what bad habits do I have that I can break that's not a question I've ever heard a

kid ask me and I'll tell you what Almost every kid will have a good answer to that question. Great

questions demand great answers. But whether it's everything we talked about today, the peeling

away, the going to Michigan when you're not supposed to, you know, you should be curious about what

bad habits do I have? Because the older you get, if you keep bad habits, Mike,

I'm sure you'd agree, they become more and more noticeable and they can really start to hurt you.

If you go for a selfish play in a big game when you're not supposed to, you're not going to play

much. Right. Because as Bonelli just said, the fundamentals are really what's going to win you the

game in that situation. So I think that's just a great question. What are some of the bad habits

that I can break?

Mike, I got to ask you this. So we got to talk about Scotland and Bonelli, you're going to love

this. We got a little bit of a question here. So Mike Knuble has dual citizenship.

And as of today, we are not sure what team he's going to play on, USA or Canada.

For this USA Hockey Canada series happening in Scotland, it's called the Ice Hockey Cup, for those

of you who aren't aware. Our friend Ryan Ball put this together. He's got a lot of pros. He's done

a lot of hockey in Australia and around the world. The guy's a super ambassador. He hates when we

shout him out, but I got to do it. So, Mike, this is the funny thing about this. Our top city,

listening city, is Toronto. But our top listening country is the United States.

So, you know, now we're teasing both of them. Canada's going to want you for their reasons. The USA

is going to want you for our reasons. Let's just start with how excited you are to be going to

Scotland, play ice hockey over there and grow the game. Yeah, I know. It's kind of funny. My buddy

Carl Hallsner, I play with in Washington Capitals. Yeah, he's coming on the show soon. too. Oh,

good. Yeah. We were in DC this summer and playing golf and he started bringing this thing up and I

was like, Oh yeah, it sounds really kind of fun, you know, and got put on the back burner a little

bit and you don't know what you're going to be doing in seven, eight months. And I was kind of

like, all right. So as the fall progressed, kind of started looking into it more than finally

pushed myself over the edge, you know, kind of said, okay, I think this will work out. And, uh,

and, uh, yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be a lot of fun. And, you know, uh, you know, the

premise is to go over there and play three games and in a round of golf at St. Andrews,

a nice little carrot to get guys to go. Well, coincidentally, I've booked like four more courses,

which is awesome too. So Carl Alsner, Matthew Pro and I, and another guy are going to do another,

we're going to bounce around there. But, but back to the Canada U.S. thing today, as of yesterday,

I got flipped to U.S. So, okay. Yeah. So with me being born in Toronto. And then playing most of

my, like, international IIHF hockey, Olympics, World Championships with the U.S. You know,

technically, I got skin in both games here a little bit. So I can go either way. So I kind of told

Ryan, why don't you just make two jerseys for me? You know, give me two jerseys. And then you can

decide last minute if somebody can't make it or we got to adjust the team. Hell, you could train me

mid-game. I was going to say, you could be playing. Somebody's short, a guy or somebody injured,

I can get in there. But it really depends on who leaves the nicest McAllen in their stall.

I mean, you know, Canada or U.S. It's like, you know, when you're over there, you can entice me

any way you want. But I think that's an awesome, it's awesome that you have the flexibility and the

opportunity to do either or. And I'm sure both sides of the staff will be.

you know, fighting to get you in their locker room. Well, as long as you have enough bodies, body

count is what we need. You know, we don't want to be out there. You know, we want to be out there.

Give me the team of more guys. Give me the team of more guys.

Mike, whichever jersey you put on, I'm sure you're going to represent with pride. And I'll say it

to, and sorry, Toronto, when I, when I remember Mike Canuba playing, I think a team USA, but, but

maybe you guys will get lucky, but Mike, listen, we're going to have you on for a ride to the rink

episode for the kids, but this has been a fantastic discussion. not just surrounding, you know,

your career, your time in the NHL, but also youth hockey, where it's going. And I think we

uncovered a tremendous amount of stuff that's been valuable to our listening audience. So I just

want to say thank you for being here today. Well, thank you for having me. That's a great

conversation. I felt like, you know, good thing it's only 45 minutes an hour. Otherwise, I can't go

for hours about this stuff. It's great. It's hard to cover in one swoop. You can't have all the

answers in one swoop. It's got to be a little bit drawn out. But I enjoyed it. Thank you, guys.

That's why we're here five years later, I guess. We thought it was going to be a quick in and out.

If SiriusXM is listening, we could have a 24-hour channel now.

But that's going to do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Remember, everybody, if you've

got questions, comments, thoughts, if you want to ask a question, email us at team at

ourkidsplayhockey.com or hit the link in the description for this episode. And you can let us know

who you are, where you're from, or you can do it anonymously. I said that correctly that time. And

get involved in the conversation. But for Mike Canubo and Mike Bonelli, I'm Lee Elias. Thank you so

much for listening. We'll see you on the next episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. Take care,

everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and

subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a

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with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to

this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.