The Shoulder Check Movement: Changing Mental Health in Youth Hockey with Rob Thorsen

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another

episode of Our Kids

Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias, joined by my co-host and best friends in the world,

Mike Bonelli and

Christie Casciano-Burns. And our guest today is someone whose impact on youth

hockey goes far

beyond the rink. Rob Thorsen is the founder of the Shoulder Check Foundation

and HT40 Foundation,

two organizations dedicated to protecting kids, educating families, and changing

the culture around

safety in youth sports. Something I know if you listen to this show, you are very

interested in.

Rob's work is rooted in personal loss, but also encourage leadership and an

unwavering commitment

to making the game safer for the next generation. Through education, advocacy,

and community

engagement, he's helping parents, coaches, and organizations rethink how we

teach contact,

respect, and responsibility in hockey. And I know from the past on this show, when

we do episodes

about contact, we get massive listens. So I'm going to thank the audience ahead

of time for

enjoying this one. And today we're going to talk about Rob's journey, the mission

behind Shoulder

Check and HD40, what families need to understand about safety and culture in

youth hockey, and how

we can all do better. for our kids. It's in the title of the show. Rob, welcome to Our

Kids Play

Hockey. Awesome. Thank you very much. I'm super happy to be here today, and

thank you for that

introduction. Thank you, buddy. Rob, your work has been absolutely impactful and

tremendous.

We appreciate you being here. We know that you launched Shoulder Check in

2023 to honor your son,

Hayden. Tell us about him. Tell us what happened and why you felt the need to

help others.

uh yeah yeah so uh our so uh he's a hockey player right first and foremost this was

my connection

here with you all would be um you know amongst a lot of other things that he was

as a young man um

and he uh he passed by suicide in may of 2022 when he was 16 years old and

when he passed a lot of

people uh kind of reached out kids parents teammates, everybody in letters and in

texts and inperson and at their own dinner tables and a lot of folks asked the question, who's

going to do what

Hades did for us now that Hades is gone? And it took not but a minute to realize

what they meant by

that. Hades was the guy who checked in on people. Hayes is the guy who kind of

brought people

together. And so when we took a step back and realized we needed to try and

make a positive

contribution, we realized that we can answer that question, who's going to do what

Hayes did now

that he's gone, by saying we all can. We can all check in on one another. We can

all look after one

another. We can all be the hand on a shoulder. So that was kind of the insight and

the genesis of

what started us down this path. And it ultimately became, we articulated it as our

program,

which is the shoulder check. And that's because, you know, it obviously comes

from a place and that

Hades left, but it honors who he was as a young man when he was with us.

And that was it. He was the guy in the locker room, in the classroom, or outside

school,

whether it was with parents or his peers or with their younger brothers and sisters

who people just

kind of gravitated towards. And I think that's because... he was an empathetic guy

right um it's

not necessarily he was a big guy he was a goalie he was six foot three he was 200

pounds he had a

presence to him so you noticed him when he walked in the room but the reason

you remembered him i

think is not because of his physical presence but rather because he was the guy

who noticed people

right he was the guy who um Empathy, yeah, that's the word that I always default

to.

And I think that's an unusual characteristic for somebody to be 16 years old and to

be the one

who's... wondering if everybody else is okay. And obviously there's a lot to be read

into on that,

and that takes us down a whole other path that can never really be answered. But

that's the space

we live in with this idea, right? It's just that notion that we can all be a little bit

more aware

of one another. So that's the genesis for the shoulder check, and that's come

straight from who

Hayes was when he was with us, made a big impression, and now hopefully thatspirit and that

intention can continue to make a bigger impression in the world. So, you know, full

disclosure,

I'm in I'm in like this hockey community in the area here, you know, where Rob's

from. And I think

this, you know, it made a huge impact in a lot of ways because of,

you know, when you actually know people and, you know, like and we all know be

on the show for so

long. And the hockey community is basically just like one community everywhere.

You see it in all

the places. And certainly, you know, a lot of people experience loss. A lot of people

experience

trauma. And I guess I'd have to ask you, you know, as a parent and, you know,

going through this, you know, what gave you, you know, what gave you that clarity

to say,

you know, we can do something about this and we need to change. We can make a

change.

We can make a really difference. And just, you know, explain, you know, how do

you even get to that

point? And so quickly, you know, and to, you know, to put this program together.

Yeah, you know, I appreciate the question and I'll try not to fill the whole time we

have together

answering it because it was a bit of a journey that was, yeah, it was both direct and

also like it

took a sec to get on track. But, you know, I think when this first happened,

you know, obviously the first few months were just disorienting, right? And there's

no real sense

of anything, time, place, whatever. Nothing made sense. But as we started to kind

of settle a bit

and understand what had happened, I think we were compelled, my wife and I, my

daughter, we were

compelled and felt like we had to make a contribution. We had to do something.

And as it happened

at that moment in time, my background, marketing and advertising used to run ad

agencies. And I was

working on a project at a time that happened to be working in the mental health

space. So I had

some people I could reach out to and just say, listen, you know, we got to make a

contribution. And

actually, the first bit of feedback that I had come back to me was so jarring. This

woman I was

speaking to, she said, you know, you need to leave this to the professionals. And I

was like, wow,

what is happening? You know, like, and. And I think it took me a second to find likewhat you meant

by that statement or actually use that statement. It made us kind of pivot and it

immediately sent

us down the track that we're on now today. So while it was like a pretty piercing

statement at the

time, it was foundational in setting us in the right course of action. Because I

reflected on that

for a second. I was like, you know, I'm not an interventionist. I'm not a psychiatrist.

I'm not a

psychologist. I'm not a practicing, you know, mental health expert. I was a dad who

worked in

advertising.

who had a young man who, you know, had an experience in a world that took a

turn that no one ever

could have predicted. And so I was like, well, you know, like, I need to leave that

part to the

professionals. But, like, I am a professional in, I had a career in marketing and

advertising.

And if I took a step back on that and think about what we're trying to do in that

world, it is

about, like, behavior change. It is about messaging. It is about creating programs.

You know, there's a lot of great work that's been done in that space, and I

immediately pivoted and

started to think of, like, Susan G. Komen or Movember, right, where these

signature causes and

these signature issues, and they've created programs that people can actively

participate in, and

they can find their own path to participate in it. So we were like, okay, so what if

we weren't,

you know, like they've done for women's health initiatives and men's health

initiatives. And what

if our initiative was about kindness and empathy? And what if we went about

building a brand that

worked that way? And so we started that. Our professional network came to us like

on day one.

Like we want to help my wife's agency that she ran. It's called Droga 5. They've

been our partner

in this from day one. They've done free work for us for three years, pro bono work.

And then at the

same time, to your point, like the hockey world is amazing, right? The hockey

world rallies. And

everybody in our hockey life came around us immediately. And it was just like

people knew that

something was going to come of this, and everybody just said, when you're readyto do something, we

want to be a part of it. So Gary Zegers and my son finished off at mid-Fairfield. He

was about to

head to Boston. He was going to play at Dexter, and prep school path was the way

he was going, that

kind of thing. But Gary came to me, and we had coffee one day, and he said, when

you're ready to do

something, I want to do something. And Ben Prentice, you know Prentice Hockey

Performance in

Stanford, Ben and Ashley, Hayes trained there.

framed Hayden's jersey and hung it in the gym next to all the other professional

athletes that

train there. She's right next to Adam Fox and K. Andrew Miller. When you walk in

the gym, it's the

first jersey you see. And Ben said he put it there. So when people walk in, they say,

oh, Thorsen,

who's that? Tells the story of who Hayden was. And he said, we want to do

something.

And just like that, it all just kind of snapped into focus where we had this idea for

the shoulder

check. of putting a hand on a shoulder and making it something programmatic that

people could

participate in. Then all the guys through Gary's world and Trevor's world and all

the guys that

train at the gym, led by kind of Chris Kreider and Kevin Shattenkirk, they're like,

yeah, we're in.

And it just came together. Let's use this charity game to launch this idea. And off it

went.

And it just came together like that. It was pretty amazing. Honestly amazing. And

every single

person connected to it is there because they want to be. It's an all-volunteer thing

that we do.

It's all Hayden's friends, Hayden's hockey parents, and right down to the athletes.

And everybody just kind of leaned in. And now we have this amazing idea. And

Rob, what does

shoulder check look like on the ground for teams and organizations that might

want to get involved?

What does it look like? How do you get involved? And what can teams do to help

each other?

Yeah, so that's what we've tried to do, and it keeps evolving, right? So each time

we have the

chance to go out and talk to somebody about it or be present with the idea or

share it, like it's

this iterative loop, right, where other people have ideas and we continue to buildout the toolkit.

But at its core, what we're trying to do is make it a part of team culture or

classroom culture or

even community culture because that's where we're at now. We're presenting in all

these different

places. And the idea is to just take this idea of reach out, check in, make contact,

right? refrain i promise to reach out check in and make contact then use that

sentiment to make it

part of what holds the team together right so we have like all kinds of little little

artifacts we

call them now um so we have like i check in because you know how people hold up

their placards say

stand up to cancer um so i say i check in because so we give those to teams and

they can fill them

in and hang them in the locker rooms and we have jersey patches and helmet

stickers and hockey tape

so that you can we say rep the blue right to show that you believe in these values

um but

ultimately to make it part of your team culture and what it found happens most is

We have a little

script, and the team will use it. And before they start their game, they'll share this

idea with an

opponent, ideally even a rival. They'll skate out to center ice, circle up at center

ice between

the two teams, put hands on each other's shoulders, and repeat that refrain. I

promise to reach

out, check in, and make contact. And again, just like little tools and devices, little

things you

can do to just bring awareness to each other. You know, I want to ask you this too,

Rob. It's kind of a two-part question here. Mental health, mental fitness is

something we bring up

a lot on this show. And in the nature we're talking about it, you know, it has been

stigmatized for

so many years. You know, I do feel like we are making headway to break through

that, but we're not

where we need to be yet, right? So those are some great actions that you spoke

about.

When we use the word success for this foundation, right? What is success for

you?

What is success for the group? You know, short term, long term. What does that

look like for our

audience who maybe have never heard of this before? Yeah, I think so. Our

program. So it is it is

awareness and behavior change. Right. And it started small. But I think we havethe opportunity to

contribute in a meaningful way to kind of break down these stigmas that exist

around this.

And you're exactly right. Like, that's what it is. And I think that's the nature of

change. Right.

Like slowly and then all at once. Right. We all keep doing the small things. until

more and more

people are doing the small things and that then becomes the norm right that's like

how change

happens and it's like slowly and then all at once and in that way i could think about

it logically

right like i always use a parallel a family member when i was young when i was like

12 years old

and he was 10 and he had cancer and um you know very fortunate obviously

massively supportive

family came around him But I still think about that in retrospect. It was the kind of

thing that

was a little bit quiet, right? And now look where we're at with that, where we

celebrate people. We

stand up to cancer. We honor. their battle. And we honor them in,

you know, in ringing the bell and then sometimes, unfortunately, in not, right? And I

think the

same thing's happening now as it relates to mental health and wellness. We're just

starting to

crack that thing open. And the thing that we noticed and what we're really keen to

do is make sure

we're being additive to the conversation, right? Because there are a lot of great

programs that are

working at the intervention level, right? There's a lot of great support. There needs

to be more.

If there's not enough, there needs to be more. And then there's a lot of work that's

being done at

the general awareness level. Like I always think of, you see the billboards that say

it's okay to

not be okay and you are not alone. But what occurred to us was like if I'm driving

down the road in

my car and I see a billboard that says you are not alone, I'm like, but I am alone.

And it still

puts the onus on me to be vulnerable, to allow myself the vulnerability.

So our thought was just like, let's just get everybody else involved, right? So you

are not alone.

And then our part of the sentence is because I'm right here beside you. Right. Like

if I needed the

ultimate elevator pitch for what we're trying to do, it's we don't always know whomight need a

hand, but we all have a hand to give. And that's what we're trying to do is get

everybody involved

to help create space, to allow people the vulnerability they need to ask for help

when they need

it. So I think, you know, that's, I realized that's not like, you know, a hard metric.

We want to

reach, you know, 275,000 people, right? Like, which we already have, you know,

we're reaching like

so many people now. And I think we just want to continue to bring this message

forward to

contribute to this positive evolution and understanding around mental health and

wellness. And I

have to add real quick, Rob, brilliant answer is that with the nature of the topic

today,

you know,

do this, right? Just asking someone or being with someone has massive power.

You may not realize someone is going through something. You may not see

something that goes,

oh, wow, they need help today. That's why it's important that this becomes a

normal thing.

Literally, hand on the shoulder, how are you doing? The understanding that,

I love how you said that, I'm with you, right? I say sometimes, I'll stand with you. I'll

walk with

you. It has a lot of power in this situation. Go ahead. Sorry. No, that's it.

No, that's a nod of agreement, man. Like I was thinking about it. If you think about,

try and boil

it down, because I think what helps where you find success is by simple ideas that

are universally

understood, right? And what's more powerful than like a hand on a shoulder, like

across cultures,

there's 8 billion people in the world. I would say virtually every single one of them

would

intuitively understand. what a hand on a shoulder means in lots of different ways

too.

Right. Like it could be celebratory. Like you just, you know, we just won. It could be

encouraging,

like, let's go. We got this. And it could be conciliatory. Like it's okay, man. Like it

can be all

those things. And it's such a simple gesture.

And how much power do you think there is for those listening? Not really sure

whether or not they

should get involved. How much power is there in peer to peer communication?

Well,that's it. And that's where it's at. My apologies. I got a little bit of a cold here.

When we

started, we looked at, one sec.

Sorry, not my best moment. No apologies. Winter weather. When we looked at it,

we started and if we boil it down, right? So if one in three or one in four people,

young men or

women, are going to need mental health support in some way over the coming

year, three quarters of

them say they don't have someone to go to when they're in need. But the flip side

of that coin is

nearly every single one of them says the first person they'd accept help from is a

friend.

That's where it's at. That's 100% where it's at, peer-to-peer.

I'm going to ask this question too. We're going to talk about coaches and parents.

I'm actually

going to go right to parents. We talk a lot on this show about the car ride home

after the game.

We talk a lot about... how parents interact with their kids after a good game, a bad

game,

with the solution of, you know, the car ride's not for coaching. But we also speak

about how,

especially in the younger half of youth hockey, that it's so important that you

establish for your

kids that you are safe with us at home, in the car. You know,

when I see parents, and I see it, you know, Really analyzing the game after the

game or really

having a problem with, you know, how their kid played that game. And it becomes

a classroom

situation, sorry, scenario over a parenting scenario. I wonder your thoughts on how

parents can

make the home a safe environment, how parents can make the car ride home a

safe environment and how

they should approach that. Yeah, and I think that's just it. It's just empathy, right?

It's

empathy. And I know and I can relate to that too, right? Just as a parent going

through that and

even my son and I finding our own space and path and, you know, just like you

have kind of the 24

-hour rule where anybody can reach out to a coach like we instituted the 24-hour

rule ourselves

for games and practices and said we're not going to talk about anything until, you

know, a day

later. and just finding our own path but just really empathy for that person in the

car andunderstanding you know like kind of i don't mean to ask a meta question but it's

like what are we

doing here right we're trying to encourage a kid along the lines of their passion um

and

understanding that they're having highs and lows right and understanding that

they're going through

their own things that that we're not gonna they're not gonna articulate they don't

even have the

words to articulate it when they're young right like right Yeah. You know,

it's funny. We reference this a lot. One of our best episodes is what to say to your

kids before a

game. And I always like to reiterate, it's, you know, I love you no matter what

happens. I love

watching you play. And then some form of work hard, have fun, go learn

something. But, you know,

there's also the things you should or should not say after a game or when you're

away from hockey.

And I think, you know, for the parents listening, it's so important to tell your kids,

you know,

After I love you, no matter what has happened. Right. I want you here. Right. I think

the world of

you, there's no, there's no, there's no scenario where, where, where I don't want

you here. Or also

things, you know, parents just tell, asking your kids, you talk about shoulder check,

right? Like,

Hey, are you okay? And they may not answer you, but if you say, Hey, are you

okay? I'm always here

for you. If you need, like, like them hearing that will resonate probably more than

they will let

on. Right. And I always encourage parents to do that. Now I see parents. ripping

their kids about

what's going on in the game.

You're doing it from a place of love. I actually really believe that. You care, right?

You said it,

Rob. There's no empathy in that statement. It's not a conducive environment.

They're not going to want to talk to you. They're already not going to want to talk

to you as

teenagers, right? It's like, why compound that? Go ahead, Rob. We had an

experience pretty early.

that struck me just as a, as a person observing what was going on. You know, you

go to like,

we used to go to these different clinics and stuff like that. You know, at some point

in time, I

noticed like things just turned like more serious than they needed to be at acertain point. And I

don't, I couldn't put my finger on exactly where or when, but everything got really,

really

serious. And it was, did you get invited to this? And are you going to that? That

whole thing. And

so and, you know, he's a good player. So he got him, you know, he went to those

kinds of things.

And we were at one and it was put on by a college coach. And these kids were like,

well, maybe 11

or 12 at the time. So we were already for four years into things. And the coach had

said,

no matter what you think, this was the speech. Like it was like, you know, one of

those things

where you go, you talk for 45 minutes, you do your skills, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And his speech

was all about no matter what, someone is always watching. Like that was the

speech.

And these dudes were like 11 or 12 years old. And you could just see like the body

language and the

look on their faces like. You know what I mean? It was just like putting this weight

on them.

And I remember, like, even me, I was thinking, like, man, if I was trying to motivate

a room full

of 11-year-olds, I'm not sure. Like, I get it, okay? This guy's running a D1 program,

and, like,

that's what he's looking for there. But, like, the 11-year-old mind isn't the 18 or 20

or 22

-year-old mind, which is the guys that he's dealing with, right? And that really it

just really

struck me. And I know it struck my son, too, because he would tell me stories all

the time that

that we would go to some of these things. And he'd be like, man, I walk in the

locker room and

everybody's so tense and so nervous and so high strung. He was like, I he did this

by the time,

you know, it was around that same age, 12, 13, 14. He was like, did I hate it? He

says. So he was

actively in the locker room like. trying to change him being himself and what he felt

he needed in

that room to lighten the mood, to bring out some levity. He was like, you know, I

look at, I

remember one specific, his name is Dan. My son Hayden told me a story about

Dan. He was like, I

could see it on him. He was like... I did everything I could just to make him smile.And that was

like Hayden's approach to the game. And he once told me, he was like, I don't do

well when I'm not

having fun. And we would get there and there'd be parents around and be like, this

game is the

biggest game we've ever played. We really, this, that, the other thing. I'm like, man,

like, no.

And I could see it. And I knew that that was like it took my son. he felt the weight

of that and it

took the joy out of things and i never understood why it was like it just it just went

like to 11

in a way that it didn't need to um so i think a lot of the time my son spent just kind

of pushing

back on that he himself and i was kind of taking my lead from him a bit um I was

like,

okay, like he's, he's there to have fun. Like he wanted to have fun and yeah, they

were succeeding.

They were really good players. They had really good, they did the, you know, go to

nationals and

all that kind of stuff, but he did it because he enjoyed it. And I think he, that's the

dynamic

that he personally fought with it a lot was trying to keep it fun. You know, you

know, I, I mean,

obviously through his experience and, and through the things you're doing, you

know,

with, with shoulder check and, and, and I'm, I'm assuming. that you're now being

contacted or

surrounded by people that had the same experiences or had tragedy in your life

like this.

Is there anything that you would say over this time period now that you could give

to parents,

like little things that you should be looking for or not just asking,

but just like you, just recognizing that this tournament this weekend is not the

most important

thing in the world and us as coaches we think everything's the most important

thing in the world

and i think you know and i and i use that i use that term all the time and i'll have to

rethink

that obviously about you know you're always being watched and i think coaches

say it in a way where

don't be disrespectful you know don't don't treat your parents the wrong way

make sure you treat

the the the garbage man you know the same way as a ceo i think that's how

people think they'resaying it yeah right But the but the pressure of saying every minute you do

something,

you're being judged is such a is such a, you know, a detrimental use of that

motivation that I

think, you know, I mean, I know just based off of this, I'm going to rethink, you

know, just using

that terminology. But can you just give a little bit of, you know, again, the people

you're now

associated with and surrounded with? I'm sure people reach out to you all the time

now because this

is a. I think, I mean, we haven't even gotten to the people that are supporting this,

right? The

pro athletes and the people around the game and the amount. And I'd love to hear

that because

obviously it's a very passionate thing for them. But could you just talk a little bit

about, you

know, from your perspective, you know, what could you tell a parent that you could

you'd say, well,

you know, you should look out for this and recognize this?

Yeah, I mean, well, I guess a couple of things on that front. And I and to your point,

like, I

agree that intent. of of what's being communicated there i think the articulation

that resonates

with me is on that character building side which is you know that notion of like you

are who you

are when when when no one's watching right it's what you do when no one's

watching that defines who

you are as a person and i think that's the same kind of sentiment but just said from

the opposite

side of the you know what i mean the opposite side of that same coin right like um

because because

and i do know and i've heard and i've talked to you know a lot of different coaches

and college

guys and all that kind of stuff and they're looking at What they mean is like the

whole person. But

I think in a lot of what in that specific instance I referenced that it came out is like

every

moment you're on the ice, every second of you as a hockey player is like

detrimental to your fate

if you don't get it right. And I think that's the way it that was what struck me there.

But I think

to your point, like that notion of like character, right? It's who you are as a person

matters well

beyond any specific sporting context, right? Like it's who you are in the world. Andthat is

important. And sports do that. Like, that's a really great thing about sports. And

that's why we

tried to add this component to it and make this a part of what the sporting

endeavor is. It's like

team building and being there for one another. And that's a life skill. You know,

and as it relates to in the larger scheme of things, like what to look for, you know,

I think I think the thing every I can only speak. From my own personal experience,

right? Like, that's the part that I know. And one observation I had pretty quickly

was,

I mean, look, if 50,000 people a year make this final decision,

they've walked 50,000 different paths to get there, right? And there are

archetypes and

commonalities and things to look for. But there are also sometimes, and this is

really specific to

our instance, when people aren't sharing. Like, if you made a list of 1,000.

kids. Hayden would have been a thousand and one on that list. Like, it's so

incomprehensible what

happened.

And there, it sounds incredible to say,

like, I even, you know, re-walk the path every day to think what,

where, how, why, and sometimes there aren't answers. And I think then the

question then becomes

like, okay, you know, are we checking in enough? are we sure are we are we

listening are we there

for the answer hey you good no no really man you good and being there for the

answer you know i

think that's the best i can offer as it relates to that question because you know

that was our

experience to just to be so unaware of something and to have someone in the

world who everyone no

one there was nothing you know what i mean there was nothing that ever would

have would have you

would have known you know you knew you had someone who was feeling who was

empathetic themselves um

that's why you see those expressions and this made me mad in the beginning but i

recognize it too

it said check on your happy friends you know what i mean and i was like man

where are we at we're

like we can't even trust that someone's happy but i think that is the case right we

live In the

world now, in a way where everything's kind of set to 11, right? Like even, you

know, going through

high school and your grades and your college and your this and your that, right?Like everything

seems to be set to 11. There's so much pressure that it's hard to let the guard

down.

So again, like that's kind of my piece and our contribution to this. Like let's just

create space

where people can let their guard down. You know, anything you keep. Anything you

push in is coming

out some way or another, right? No matter what it is, it's coming out some way,

probably with twice

the force that you're forcing it down with. And it comes out in lots of different

ways. It gets

expressed in different ways, right? Like obviously for us in this kind of ultimate

pathway,

but you have people who will act out. You have people who have behavioral cues.

You have people who

start to push the envelope or maybe find paths towards drugs and alcohol. For us,

they refer to these things as paths of despair, right? Like, push things in, they're

going to come

out some way. But ultimately, I think, you know, being open, being attuned,

and being honest about things and just being there for someone, I think, can make

a huge

difference. Rob, thank you so much for the work you've done. We are deeply so

sorry for the loss of

your son, Hayden. What a wonderful young man. We do want to talk more about

the impact you are

making. You know, teams and communities are discovering you and your shoulder

check is growing,

probably in ways you never even imagined. So tell us about that, how communities

are bringing...

Shoulder check to life and hockey teams are discovering you and the difference

it's making.

Yeah, I'll say like that's it's the it's it is the figurative and literal hand on our

shoulder,

obviously. Right. Like to see this idea of being embraced and knowing now directly.

Like you say, we've been doing this for a little bit. Like I have the stories, the emails

or even

the phone calls that come now where people will share like, hey, we had a

teammate who we were

worried about. We reached out and, you know, like that people have it's made a life

saving

difference in some places. And I think that's, again, the most extreme example.

Right. But I think it also makes a huge difference at the everyday level in just

creating a space

that makes people joyful. And that's ultimately what we're trying to do at this,right? So like now

we have it, I said all the time, from Stanford to Seattle. And now we actually...

calgary now right

so we've got like whl team in calgary's got a shoulder check night coming up the

junior kraken are

doing it in seattle sun valley youth hockey association um has got the whole

program involved uh

and interesting things come of that too right where a senior they did it for senior

night in sun

valley and this young man wanted to write a paper for his high school graduation

thesis about

mental health wellness and he reached out to me and wanted to do an interview

for his paper about

it right this is like kind of the interesting small things that are happening or um you

know i'll

be in in erie the erie otters the ohl will have a shoulder check night on a

wednesday night um then

we're headed down to dc where the capitals will be having a shoulder check night

but we do all of

that right again so those are big platforms where thousands of people can see the

message so that

people can be inspired to want to bring it to their teams. And I'll go to those events

and stand

behind a table and just meet people and talk about how they can bring the

program to their teams.

And again, what that is, is just kind of making the commitment. to be there for one

another and

then people can interpret that however they want for their teams so now yeah

we've got youth

programs from mites you know all the way up to the u18s um we've got the juniors

we've got colleges

we've got pro teams doing it and then it's gone well beyond hockey as well to

other sports but then

just two classrooms right we present to high schools all the time 1,200 kids at a

time,

and we have them fill out these iCheckIn cards. And it's really inspiring. We've got

corporate

sponsorships, things like, you know, we're working with a hospital system because

they recognize,

like, who's checking in on doctors and nurses who are, right, who are frontline

employees.

We're partnered up with a military charity called TK. foundation who you know

they also recognize

right the need to be there for one another because who's under more stress andcaring more than the

people who are on the front lines in the armed services and seeing the idea

resonate with different

people in such different places but again comes back to that one simple universal

thought of like

you're not alone because I'm right here beside you. Like you don't know who

needs a hand, but I

have a hand to give. And seeing that resonate in so many different ways and

places is incredible.

Like I'm really blown away by some of the things and some of the calls or

opportunities that we

have, but we keep always bringing it back to. The way it was meant to work by

design from the get

-go, which is, it is a grassroots program. And we're super fortunate to have all

these kind of

elite NHLers and the PWHLers that have been participating in this with us from the

get-go. Like,

these folks are role models. And kids see it. You know, they use the words. You

might see somebody

who, you know, when somebody has a broken arm, you can see that, but you can't

see when they're

struggling with something inside. And just to hear those guys say it. It's game

changing,

you know, and that's all to unlock this kind of grassroots participation. That's why

we do all this

stuff. That is amazing. I don't think I answered your question. Did I answer your

question? You

did. It's phenomenal. Wow. Yeah, I also, I think I read somewhere that you got the

rights to lead

on me. Yeah, so that was... Share that story and how you used it in that very

special night.

That's so cool. Yeah, that was, so that was amazing. So we, so every year, so we

wrote our mission

statement, right? So we were incorporated as the HT40 Foundation because we

had to get our, you

know, 501c3. And then we did the work that got us to the idea of the shoulder

check. And we wrote a

mission statement and said, we want to inspire and... young men and women to

check in and be there

for one another. So inspire and enable are like the two keywords for us. So every

year we try and

like add new tools to the toolkit. So the first year was the shoulder check.

Obviously, that was

the platform. And then the second year, we made an emoji. We called it the check-in emoji.

We were trying to get it on. It's called the Unicode database. Like every emoji you

get gets served

from the same place, whether it's on your text or Instagram or whatever. It all

comes from the same

place, and you have to get a proof. So we pitched them the check-in emoji. And

with that, we got

to ring the opening bell at the NASDAQ Stock Exchange. And we had all the

signage all around Times

Square. It was amazing. It was all donated. The Unicode database people, in all

their wisdom, chose

a chewed-up Apple core as a more important emoji than our check-in emoji. So

that one didn't make

the cut. But we got to talk about it for like three months and bring awareness to

the cause. And

then last year... idea so we had had this idea do you want me to tell a story about

the idea yes

yes yes yes um so when we when we first started our part my friend chris he's our

partner and the

creative guys at the agency came and he was like dude we should we should get

people to sing lean

on me and let's see if we could get um you know we could maybe we could get

some professional

athletes to sing at this that the other thing and i was like It was a great idea, man,

but we were

just starting. We didn't have any connects at the time, so it just wasn't the right

time for the

idea. So then he called me back probably a year ago this time, and he was like,

dude, I think we need to revisit this idea. I said, I think we could do it. So they

reached out to –

so the idea was that we would ask the NHL guys to just come in and sing the song,

to sing Lean On

Me, which – Was like, will they do it? I don't know. But even if they don't do it, even

if they

just say the words, that would be cool. So the agency folks reached out to Bill

Withers Estate,

explained the idea. And they said, would you allow us the use of this song? And

they were like,

yeah, absolutely. Please do. Which is incredible, right? Like they gave us the rights

to use the

song. And then the day of our showcase. which is, you know, we have our, our

shoulder check

showcase. That's our big event. I'll talk more about that in a minute, but anyway,

that's where allthe guys come out, play a charity game. Like everybody comes out with 2,500

people every year.

They're at. prentice earlier in the day and we were like well we were very fortunate

we had this

kind of production company commercial production company from la come out

and like we'll help you

make this and we went there and we told the guys like would you just would you

mind coming in and

singing a couple bars to the song and everybody looked at us like what do you

want us to do and i

had i had been i had the good fortune i was with marty saint louis the day before

And I was telling

him about the idea, and he's been a great supporter. He's in the area, and he's

been with us from

day one. And I was telling him about the idea, and I was like, you know, if you want,

like, swing

by, dude. See if you want to participate. And he was like, yeah, good luck with that.

And sure

enough, like, he came the next day, and, like, he did a part. You could see him, and

I'll send you

the video if you haven't seen it. It's on our site. Love that. And everybody did it. So

probably

about 15 guys came. You know, like Jonathan Quicks in there, Spencer Knight,

Adam Fox,

Matt Rempe, Kreider, Shattenkirk, Shane Goss, Despier, Brett Pesci, everybody,

Brett Berard. And then and then my son's friends are the extras in it and they're all

singing. And

we just did it that day. We just took a shot, did it. And then we have John Brancy,

who's the New

York Rangers anthem singer. um wow he yeah so he sings the uh he sings the

anthem for us at our

event and i said to him i was like dude would you would you go out there so at our

showcase and

sing lean on me he's like yeah i'll do that so he went out there and he sang it we

had our camera

guys on the ice and spontaneously people in the crowd turned their camera lights

on their phone and

started singing along And it's kind of the way this whole thing has been going

since we started it.

It was like, is this going to work? Like, I don't know. It's a good idea. Let's do that.

Let's see

what happens. And then and it worked. Amazing. Yes. And we have this like 90

second film.

And I had no idea the impact and the power. It brings people to tears.It's incredible. And I think what works about it. Yeah, I think what works about it is

the guys,

everybody that's in it. is just trepidatious enough that they're demonstrating the

very

vulnerability that we're advocating for in the world like it's an amazing the way this

thing worked

and it came out and again like so much credit to all of them who have just been

part of this with

us from day one and we're like yeah let's do it and and uh hey it was incredible we

had to go over

there and we showed it to them when it was done and you could see everybody

was kind of like wait

what are we doing with this and we're like we're getting we're gonna get on the

super bowl if we

can and they're like what that's not sick that's amazing yeah it was incredible it

was incredible

experience it's just another case in point of like how hockey world rallies right like

this is it's

our collective idea the shoulder check is our collective idea because it's much

theirs as ours as

the kids who participate when they bring it to their local rinks fantastic thank you

for sharing

that the reach is amazing you know one of the things about uh you know

organizations like this rob

is that I always joke, one of my favorite shows growing up was Quantum Leap. Me

too.

Yeah, there you go. Again, for the audience who doesn't know, very short is the

main character

leaps into different people's lives and helps different people. One of my favorite

parts of the

last episode is the main character is asked, do you think you've helped a lot of

people? He says,

not that many. I've only leaped so many times. The awareness of... The people you

have helped have

helped other people and they've helped other people and they've helped other

people. The echoes of

what you have done have helped hundreds of thousands and millions of people.

And Rob,

you've done that. I mean, and everyone involved has done that. Right. And I think

that with with

initiatives like this, whatever you want to call it, that's why it's so important to have

a

community based programs like this, because it reverberates loudly.

not just in your area, but everywhere. I mean, our podcast audience is hearingabout it now,

right? That's why things like this are so important. I also want to make a note, too.

You talked

earlier about vulnerability with the athletes and the coaches and how that,

you know, with situations like this, it is not always so obvious. You know, Robin

Williams,

you know, was apropos for this episode, said so famously, and obviously,

paraphrasing here,

but everyone that is going through something you know nothing about, be kind.

And you said it

earlier, and I wanted to reiterate this, that sometimes the happiest people on the

outside may not

be feeling that way on the inside. There may not be a huge awareness of

someone's dealing with

something. I can't stress that enough, especially to the coaches listening, because

I think a lot

of us grew up in a time where we were told to push our emotions down, do not

show your feelings.

And I will say it, that was a mistake, right? Like we have learned that is not the way

to be doing

this anymore. And I think it's so important when we deal with this new generation

of youth athletes

and just youth in general, they're growing up in a very different environment where

emotions and

feelings are actually important, a power in a lot of ways. So I think, and I'd love to

have a quick

discussion for coaches out there that might be listening to go, look, okay. You

know, guys, I

believe what you're saying. I have no idea how to implement this into my U10 team,

right?

So can we talk for a few minutes to the coaches listening about actions they can

take at the start

of the season, during the season, at any age, really, to implement shoulder check

philosophy?

And my guess is, Rob, it's not that intricate. It's not that crazy. It's not like it's a

daily

thing at every practice. It's little things. No, and by design. And that was kind of

why we built

our kind of annual way of working or our annual calendar around that,

right? So our Shoulder Check Showcase, which is our big event of the year,

happens the last week of

July. It'll be at Sacred Heart University, which is in Fairfield, Connecticut this year.

And we use that as a launch pad and we do that because, you know, fall teams and

school starts andall that happens right after that. So the idea was like you can come together and

you could start.

And you can make the shoulder check a part of your team or school, your culture

right from the get

go. And we have like I said, we have like team kits that we send that that have like

it's got a

script in it that you can read. Simple script that just says, look, checking in on one

another is

important. Like it's as simple as that just to make the point from the start. And

we're going to

make that a part of our team culture. You know, some kids have some teams have

like a make contact

Monday thing where they all somebody there's a text. There's always a team text

thread. So say

something nice to somebody on Monday. You know what I mean? Like it's the

littlest things like

that. But yeah, that would try to make it so that you could start. each team can

come together,

then it could just be part of the code of conduct, right? It could be like formal like

that, or it

could be like, hey, we're going to wear these helmet stickers all year. Or after every

practice,

we're going to get around the net and our chance is going to be make contact,

right? So just using

the language and like getting used to it and making that language part of the team

culture is kind

of super simple way to do it. And I think the thing that's really important, I've had

this a few

times too, right? Like where people think that A lot of people maybe don't

understand the program

enough or they think like, oh, this is a suicide prevention program. I've had people

say, no, we

don't need that. We don't need to be talking about that. That's off-putting, right?

That's a

challenging topic. Of course it's a challenging topic. It's a scary topic. It's all those

things.

And there's a definite ancient belief that says by like, if we talk about these things,

we're going to will them into existence, right? Like there's that old school line of

thinking,

which has been disproven. radically disproven but obviously also it needs to be

handled correctly

but that's why our idea is meant to operate like way up higher right it's like way pre

-intervention it's it's barely even in the language that we use you wouldn't even

necessarily sayoh that's a mental health program it's just an empathy program right it's a

kindness program and

the impact that that has is like game changing and all those other things that

happen underneath

that like this just opens up the aperture on it and that's why we tried to make it like

that right

so that it is simple and that and not only that but like especially as kids get older

and they see

themselves as role models right well then the role they're playing now is like hey

i'm a champion

for kindness like i believe in this i'm sharing this with you and and certainly that

that becomes a

thing that happens when the kids get older like yeah no we're Doing a shoulder

check game because

we want to role model this behavior. But back to your point to two coaches,

it is just a simple thing. We're going to work hard. We're going to do our best. And

then to say,

and we're going to look after one another. That's it. That's all there is to it. Yeah,

Rob,

I got to add in here too. A lot of the audience knows about my team building work.

That's the realm

I work in. if you think those of you listening that this does not impact your team's

ability to

play hockey better you're crazy okay it absolutely makes an impact on their game

as well right not

that that's the main reason you would do it all right but you know it's funny when

we talk about

you mentioned the word team building rob like um when you tell people that on the

surface they go

okay happy clapping and yoga and you know um all this that kumbaya It's actually

quite the

opposite. A lot of the things I do are very uncomfortable for these athletes. I'm

putting them

into, as you said, positions where it's not fun. I'm uncovering inconsistencies in

them as a group

and as individuals with the overarching message of we're in this together. None of

us are perfect.

It's going to be hard, but you've got to take care of each other. Teams that have

that down.

by and large, succeed over teams that don't, right? And I'm just going to say it,

that as coaches, find the shoulder check resources, first off, bring them into...

I was gonna say clubhouse bring them into your locker room because not only they

have a positive

effect on these kids lives it'll have a positive effect on your team and I have to saythis too I'm

gonna be on a soapbox for half a second here if the word empathy makes you roll

your eyes which I

don't think is this audience to be fair I mean you're behind here right like like this is

an

important part of human culture and always has been, to be fair, right? We haven't

always called it

empathy. And then the other, this is more of a warning, if I may. If anyone's

listening,

this is hard, parents. If anyone's listening, thinking this will never happen to me,

this will

never happen to my kid, that's a dangerous place to be, all right?

I don't think that way about my situation, my home. You know, don't, we talk about

this like,

oh, my kid's the one who's going to make it, right? It's like the opposite of that.

Don't be the

parent. thinking this could never happen in my home. It's just not the right

wavelength to be on.

I'm not saying it's going to happen or anything like that, but the lack of awareness

in that

statement, it should scare you a little bit at home if you've been thinking that.

Again,

I'm saying that. I don't know if the three of you agree with me on that, but don't

get stuck in

that thinking because that type of thinking is going to lead you to not having

conversations. It's

going to lead you to not checking on your young ones, and it's going to lead you

down a place

where, where, you know, a little bit of ignorance in my opinion. All right. And that's

a hard thing

to say. All right. I'm not trying to sound like the boss here. I just, I think if we don't

talk

about that, what are we talking about?

Right.

No, go ahead, Rob. No, not my place. No, I was just going to say, I mean, in my

own experience,

like I had actually texted Rob a couple of weeks ago, I walk into a rink and it just,

you know, we

were just talking about this. Right. And all of a sudden I see. the shoulder check

signs up there,

checking in on this person, the colors, not only the team atmosphere of this,

like the team went out and did this as a project for them, right? Whether there's

certain players

on the team that believes it or not, right, or buys into it or not, was really morerelevant to

Rob's kind of description of what Prentice did by having his son's jersey up.

It initiated a conversation of, What is that and what are they doing? And all of a

sudden now you

go into any high school game, youth hockey, you know, high school games

especially, right? And

Rob's talking about his professional teams, but, you know, there's hundreds and

hundreds and

hundreds of families there. And the reach out for really doing nothing but this one

event in your

own little world of your 20-game season and one of those games you do a

shoulder check game or

some type of awareness. I think for anybody that's listening to this episode would

be like,

well, that's really without effort. To your point, you're now spreading the word and

having a

conversation. And if it's hitting one person and one family and one kid, then,

you know, then we've accomplished a great deal. And I think it just and it doesn't

take a lot of

effort. I mean, I know if you go to Rob's website and you just order like a packet of

what you want

to do or how you want to be involved or, you know, whether it's wearing wristbands

or.

dashboard signs or whatever it is it just brings it's another level of awareness and

it helps with

your team building and it helps with communicating to your kids like so it's all

these great

benefits of it and i think i you know me personally seeing it firsthand because you

know walk in a

rink and you're not expecting it it you know instantly uh resonates and connects

I've been happy to

say I have seen it on the college level with my daughter's college hockey teams. I

have not seen it

on the local level. I have not seen it with youth hockey teams, unfortunately. And I

think,

Lee, it could be some denial on the part of parents. Oh, this could never happen

here.

So, yeah, we need to. keep pushing, keep raising that awareness, not only just

inspiring,

but enabling kids to be able to have those tools in their toolbox and letting,

giving parents permission to think about this could possibly,

yes, it's, it's right in, it could be right in your own home and you don't even know

about it.

So it's the word I should have used, Christie, it's just awareness. It's justawareness of it.

Right. Again, there's no perfect parents out there, including myself.

It's just one of those things of be aware of it. You can turn this into a massive

positive. My

guess, Rob, is the kids actually probably run to it. They're probably all about it.

That's totally. That's the way we've tried to build it so that I would say it's two-

thirds of the

people that reach out are the kids themselves. which is what we want by design.

Yeah, I would not have guessed that, Rob. That's a great stat. Yeah, 100%. I have,

excuse me,

I have, yeah, and it's an interesting dynamic. Like, we're sending out,

you know, our team kits, like we said, to... yeah definitely two-thirds of the of the

folks that

reach out are the players themselves saying i want to bring this to my team and

and that's how like

again like like we're going all the way back right we talked peer to peer before right

like And

that's it. Like, I know it's working because I see the inbound. And then the kids text

me back.

Hey, we did it. It was like Taft had at this gun school this past weekend or even

Darien High

School did. There were a few games in our general area that I'm aware of. They all

text me back and

say it was amazing. People had such a good time. The kids bring themselves to it.

They turn it into

fundraisers if they want to for us. There's no ask from our side. We don't ask for

anything in

return. Like, we're not raising money. We're raising awareness. do believe you

know we're still in

the naive part of this where a good idea will find the support that it needs like to

grow it

obviously we're gonna have to we're switching gears and doing that kind of stuff

Um, but, um,

yeah, one young man, he wanted to do something. He had, he built like, he made

like a shooter tutor

that was shoulder check branded and they sold opportunities for little kids to go

out, shoot pucks

and win a Jersey. Like they define their own ways to do it. Yeah. And I think that's

amazing.

Or a big, there was a bank sale at one. Like I know these things happen because all

of a sudden. So

Venmo comes in and they're $3 at a time, which is incredible. Like kids doing bake

sales,

but that's all the kids themselves doing it. And, you know, sometimes they'll needa coach to

sponsor or support them or a parent to help them, you know, make the case. I

think I've only seen,

I have seen one instance where someone said no, when a kid said we want to do

this and the team

said no. And because it was only one, it stands out.

so much more if it was you know like and and again that's the other reason we do

it with the kids

like it's the kids bringing it to their schools i'm not out pitching it to high school

administrators it's the kids bringing it to their schools and just like the teams

support their

athletes right the schools support their students right like This is an idea that

these young men

and women care about, and they're the ones who are carrying it forward, and

that's how all these

doors are opening. And the data supports it too, Rob, because, you know, they've

done it.

Obviously, audience, you can look this up on your own. Please don't ever take my

word for it. But

the research shows the number one concern of the youth, especially in youth

athletics,

it's not making it. It's not, you know, it's mental. fitness,

mental health. And they are openly saying that. And this is, we always talk about

meeting kids

where they're at, right? This is a win-win for your team, for your organization, for

humanity,

if you want to go really big with it, which we should, right? And it's important to

this generation

of kids, right? The fact that you just said two-thirds are kids supports that.

This is something that's positive. Rob, you said earlier about hockey is supposed

to be fun.

I'll go back to the people who make fun of happy clappers. There's already enough

adversity in the

game. They don't need more adversity. This is me as a coach talking.

Part of the fun, and I mean this, this isn't a stretch, is them learning to overcome

the adversity.

Right. When they can look back on, wow, we had this challenge that we overcame.

We all know that feeling, right? Like that's a, that's a form of fun if you want to call

it that.

So, you know, this can be fun. This can be part of that growth with a very serious

topic,

but you want to de-stigmatize it. Talk about it. Like, like, like I always say that to

you,

what we have to have these conversations. if you want to destigmatize things yeahyeah there's a

circular logic to it where we're trying to create space to allow people to feel more

vulnerable by

creating space for them to be vulnerable right like it is like this circular dialogue

you just have

to the wheel's going to spin one way or another right why not spin in a positive

way i draw this

distinction sometimes in my presentations the difference between reflection and

regret right like

And that's like a massive team thing, right? When you don't do something that you

otherwise know

you could have done or should have done, that's the path to regret. And regret is

heavy, and you

don't always get to put regret down. But the path to reflection is just like you were

saying,

is by being intentional and by being aware and knowing that things might not

always work out the

way you want them to. But because you put your best self into it, you can learn

from it. And that's

reflection. And that's such a better, more positive place to be. That's the life skill.

Right. Yeah. I always love to say this, too, because, you know,

I talked earlier in the episode about that car ride home. Right. I never said it would

be easy not

to talk about the game in the car ride home as a parent or as a coach. Right. Like

the first thing

I want to do. is talk about the game. But it's hard for me if I do it,

right? Like, no, Lee, you're not going to bring this up unless they do. That's tough,

right? No one said this would be the easiest path, right? And what you're talking

about with the

adversity, a big message here for parents, it's hard to allow your kids to fail.

Rob, you talked earlier about when did this turn to 11? When did this get so

serious? Well,

I think there was a turn in culture. I'm not putting this only on parents here, but of,

oh,

I don't want my kid to fail. I don't want my kid to fail. Well, don't play hockey

because the whole

game is based on capitalizing on someone else's failure, right? That's also the

greatest gift of

this game, right? And I think together, we have to be okay with letting your kids

experience all of

it, the ups, the downs, the lefts, the rights, the challenges, right? And again.

I'm not trying to get too grandiose here. Like this is part of, this is a big part of

that, what

we're talking about today, the mental side, right? We have to allow the kids to feeltheir

emotions, to express their emotions. And most importantly, to know that you are

not alone in

experiencing these things, right? We all feel these things, right? And I just love the

message of

just, hey, I'm here with you. You're not alone and I'm walking with you. I think that

was a great

addition to that statement, right? Sorry, I am going like five minutes. No, you're

good.

Rob, I'll just say this, because we're getting to the kind of time here. To you

directly,

sir, anyone who takes this type of pain and allows it to fuel purpose is not just an

inspiration to

all of us, but it's amazing. What you have done, what you have created, and the

community that

you've created together, I know you'll give all credit to them too. But it takes a

tremendous

amount of courage to turn pain into purpose like this or to fuel it. So thank you for

the work

you're doing as well. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Mike, Christie,

do you have anything else before we close this out? Please tell us how do teams

get involved? How

do we find you? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, definitely. I get to give the plug. I appreciate

that.

Yeah, no. So it's shouldercheck.org is our site, and it's the Shoulder Check.

That's the handle that's under me there on Instagram. The Instagram page shows

the program in

action. You'll see what other people are doing with it, with their teams, and all the

different

places. And then on the site itself, it has resources. We have... Like I said,

the scripts are there, the team kits are there, all the different ways. There's a

section that says

get involved. It talks about how you can do it with your team, with your school, or

with your

community. And there's different actions you can take, downloadables, all that

kind of good stuff.

And then also there's a contact button there. The email's come to me and one

other member of our

full-time team. And we get back to everybody directly. And a lot of times it just

starts with an

open-ended question. If it's outside, say, a team, like, hey, I have an idea. wanted

to do how

could i bring it to my whatever music festival and then we would do a phone call

and say let's talkabout it and then we find a path for it so that's kind of my full-time job is

supporting this idea

and helping it come to life in whatever way works best for the people that want to

use it um but

there's a lot of turnkey stuff on the website you could download it you could do it

you know this

afternoon if you wanted to

And then the other one is at Sacred Heart University, July 30th. This is our fourth

annual shoulder

check showcase. And that's where we have all this great support from these

incredible NHLers and

PWHLers who will come out for our charity game. So anybody in Connecticut or

the Northeast,

please come. That's a beautiful rink, too. I've been there. It is. It's our first time, so

we're

leveling up. We used to be at Terry Connors rink in Stanford, and we packed the

house there for

three years and kind of outgrew it. So now we're lucky to have the chance to take

it to Sacred

Heart, which is stunning. You'll love it. Well, one of the beauties of our audience,

Rob, is they really connect with things like this. So I know those of you out there

are going to be

running to this website. The other beauty of running a podcast, Rob, is that we get

to do a lot of

micro clips and we have a lot of audience that watches those. So we will be

sharing that message

across social media. Obviously, for everyone listening, you know, the links for this

are right in

the show description right now. You could pause it and go there. It's been there

the whole time.

But Rob, we're going to help you because you've helped so many people, man. It's

truly inspiring

work. And again, you know, episodes like this are so important just to have the

conversation and to

show people. So if you're out there and there's a conversation you need to be

having within your

organization, whether you're a player, a coach, a parent, anyone, have the

conversation. Free

resources. I mean, people love hearing that, right? Rob, thank you so much for

being here with us

today. Thank you. You guys are awesome. Love it. So are you, buddy. All right,

that's going to do

it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, everybody. If you have any comments,

remember, emailus, team at ourkidsplayhockey.com. Check out the show notes today. There's

plenty of stuff there

for you. And enjoy your hockey, enjoy your day, and we'll see you on the next

episode. Take care,

everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure

to like and

subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a

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social media network, or our website, ourkidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to

check out our

children's book, When Hockey Stops, at whenhockeystops.com. It's a book that

helps children deal

with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much

for listening to

this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.