They Were Ready To Quit Hockey...Until This Changed Everything!

Lee MJ Elias [0:00 - 2:37]: hello, hockey friends and families around the world. And welcome back to another edition of our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias and I'm joined by my best friends Christy Cash, Anna Burns and Mike Finelli. And today we're diving into a story that really hit home for us because it's something we discuss and mention on the show quite a bit. Specifically, Mike Benelli talks about this a lot and it's the need for more recreational leagues in hockey. Now, this episode was inspired by you by a note. It came from a listener and it might be one of the most relatable and refreshing stories we've heard in a while. So I'm going to read some of that message for you now and we'll jump into what I am sure will be a lively discussion. Cue. Cue the music. Cue the the aura music. Thank you post production team. I just threw that on you. Here we go. At the end of the regular hockey season this year, something just seemed off with my daughter. She wasn't putting in much effort on the ice and and more importantly, she didn't look like she was having fun anymore. There were a lot of factors, but one of the biggest was her confidence. She's about to turn 13 in August, so there are a lot of changes happening for her. For the first time, I put my foot down and said no to spring competitive hockey. She still wanted to play. So we signed her up for a fun, low pressure park district league run by her favorite coach from when she was younger. It only took about six weeks. One light skill session during the week and a three on three cross ice game on Saturdays. No coaching unless it was a safety issue. And her spark came back. The change was incredible. She went from barely breaking a sweat to coming off the ice drenched. She's smiling. She's loving the game again. That same coach now has her scrimmaging with high school and college girls and her confidence just keeps growing. Next season she'll dual roster between the park district and girls travel. She didn't do a single camp this summer. Just one scrimmage a week for six weeks. And she's having the time of her life. Keep preaching the importance of fun in hockey. Maybe more of us thick skull people will get the message a little sooner, myself included. And for obvious reasons. This person asked to remain anonymous. But you know that they're in an area where there's a park league. But we love this story. We love it not. Not just because it shows the power of less structure and more fun, but it's a great Reminder of what hockey is supposed to feel like. So today we're going to crack open this one from all angles and, and really celebrate the return of joy in the rink. It has to exist, gang. If you don't have the fun, it's not gonna work out. And I think that this story really dove into that. So let me bring in Mike and Christy now. Guys, again, why do stories like this one resonate so deeply with us? 

Christie Casciano [2:37 - 3:49]: Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, sports culture for kids now, it seems to be wired for burnout. So kudos to this dad for knowing his kid, for recognizing the signs that she was starting to burn out. And that's the age 13 where we've seen studies have shown kids quit sports altogether. And he stepped in. He did a great intervention. He knew his kid and he did exactly what the experts would tell you to do, what your heart tells you to do, what your mind tells you to do. And you're listening to, to all that. And he did the right thing. So many parents might just fluff it up. Oh, she probably wants to stay home and play video games or, you know, maybe she's just being lazy. No, he knew the difference. It's not laziness, it's something more here, something more serious. She's starting to burn out and not having fun. So what do I do to fix it? And that's great because if your kids are showing that burnout signs, doesn't mean they're going to quit forever. But you can pull them back and reintroduce joy. He did all the right things. Kudos to this dad. Yeah, Mike. 

Mike Bonelli [3:50 - 5:17]: Yeah, I just, it's so depressing that the way you have to describe the other league is the fun league. Like the idea is that this is supposed to all be fun. Like this is. And this is probably the root of the problem, right? Yeah. Is that when we, when we, when we listen. I don't know, being around kids and kids that are developing in sport my whole life, you just see that self directed play is always the best play. It just is. Like anytime there's a self directed activity, it always seems to have the most joy. Right. And the most fun and the most passion and you're the most driven. And I think that's like anything else, right. If I get, you know, it's like, you know, if I get asked to do a chore around the house, if I do the chore on my own, I always feel better about it than being asked to do it 15 times. Right. So, you know, to me it's like that, that's, and that's the kids and, and the, and the opportunity we have with these children is that, you know, they've, they've get into a place where they are now even seeing the fun and the joy in it. And imagine now a father or mother have to look and say, oh, that's what that looks like. I've been playing hockey for 15 years, 12 years. And that's what the fun looks like. And that's. So I do, I do applaud the parent and the parents of seeing this and saying, you know what, we're not going to keep driving this into this kid's head. We're just going to let them have their opportunity to do this and then we'll go from there and have that self directed play. I love it. 

Lee MJ Elias [5:17 - 6:59]: Yeah, I love that you brought that up too, Mike, about how the contradictory of it being the funnily. Because we do talk about this a lot. You know, I can say this, Mike. You can too, Christy. You know this. And this is true, not just of hockey, but of anything even at the highest levels I've coached, professional, international, where the stakes are very high. I'm not going to sugarcoat that, like you have to win at those levels. But if we're not having fun, we tend not to win. If you look at the Florida Panthers, they're working, they were injured, but they were smiling. They're having a good time. All right. And again, it's a very different atmosphere at the pro level. I'm not trying to compare youth to pro in that sense, but I'm talking about the, the, it's, it's a game. It's got to be fun. I, I do want to share some quick stats that I, I put together here. So according to the Aspen Institute State of Play report, the average child. This is going to surprise a lot of you quit sports by the age of 11 with not having fun as the number one reason. And then here's another one since we were talking about a young lady here. A 2022 Women's Sports foundation report showed the confidence dropped significantly in girls around age 13, which is coinciding with peak pressure in youth travel leagues. And I think with boys, the studies show that that's at 15. So gang, I want to talk about this too, because the person who wrote us this letter spoke about confidence multiple times. It wasn't just she wasn't having fun, her confidence was nosediving. And I think it's important that we bring up that when you get to this kind of crux point with your kids where maybe they're pushing back a little bit. Maybe they're looking burnt out. As parents, we have a choice in this moment, Right. I think a lot of parents push and they go, get out there. Work. You don't know about hard work. Get out there. And the thing is that there's a difference between being lazy and being burnt out. 

Christie Casciano [6:59 - 6:59]: Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [6:59 - 7:16]: Okay. And you have to know the difference. And I'm going to use this word. I think sometimes we accidentally imprint our daily lives on our kids. Right. We have to get up and go to work every day. We've been raising the kids. We're. We're grinding, our bodies are falling apart. So it's easy for us to go, hey, you just need to work harder. 

Christie Casciano [7:16 - 7:16]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [7:16 - 7:33]: That's gonna kill a kid's confidence because they are working hard. They're burnt out. There's a huge difference. So, Christy, I want to talk to you about that. Right? Like, how. How do you think the role of burnout plays in kids that age 11 to 13? And how does that intersect with confidence? Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [7:33 - 8:51]: And I'll throw the other stat that has. The American Academy of Pediatrics found 70% of kids drop out of organized youth sports by the age of 13. This is a real thing. Sometimes it depends on the teams that you put your kids on, too. So many parents think the best team is the best fit for their kid. That's not always true, especially if they're on a team playing with kids. They don't really know if there's an opportunity to put your kid on a team that may not be as highly competitive, but they're with a bunch of friends having a blast. And so what? They're going to remember that over wins and losses. You know that. So you got to find the right fit for your kid, too. If you see that you're watching them at practice, you're watching them play, and they just don't have the love for the sport. They're just kind of doing the motions and not really learning and growing. It's time to reassess where you're at with the team, too. I think that that can play a role in burnout. Let's not forget the S word, too. Specialization. We'll get into that a little bit, but I want to hear from Mike, too. 

Mike Bonelli [8:51 - 9:29]: Yeah, but that's the whole crux of the whole thing, right. Is I think that burnout is because of us doing something that probably we want more than the child wants. Right. I mean, and it. And it. And, and. And unfortunately, you always Think you're doing the right thing? You think you're doing. You're. You're doing it in a positive way for the, for the kid. And then what happens is, you know, all of a sudden they, they get to a point where they're not playing anymore. Like, oh, well, that was 15 years down the tubes, like, or in this case, 11 years. Right. So I think it's just a matter of reading the room and seeing where you think your own family instead of trying to keep up with everybody else's families. 

Lee MJ Elias [9:29 - 10:01]: Yeah. You know, we bring this up a lot on the show about, you know, the push pull methodology with parents, which I get asked a lot. Do I push them here? Do I pull them here? And I said, I just think we're looking at it the wrong way when we do that. Right. It's. It's so much more about the environment that you create for your child to explore and have some wonder in. Right. They have to take some ownership over now. You still have to mentor them. You still have to, to give them the, the, the, hey, look, let's work hard. Kind of, kind of talks. But if you're pushing and pulling, of course they're going to burn out. Right? 

Mike Bonelli [10:01 - 10:01]: We. 

Lee MJ Elias [10:01 - 10:06]: Mike, your. One of the favorite things you do is if you want to get your kids to stop playing video games, start playing video games with your kids. 

Mike Bonelli [10:06 - 10:07]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [10:07 - 10:19]: That's not true all the time. But, but it's like, you know, you know, we just went through that time period where everybody was talking about Sigma and Skibidi. That's gone now because all the adults started using it. The kids got rid of that language in 24 hours. Right. 

Mike Bonelli [10:19 - 10:20]: So is that out? 

Lee MJ Elias [10:20 - 10:42]: It's gone. Yeah. Or they're doing it in secret now. They have other words. Every time I told my kid I have aura, they roll their eyes at me. But the idea is that if we're forcing hockey in that same regard, of course they're gonna not want to do it. They don't want that from their parents. So again, mentor, push, pull. Yeah. Okay. There's some of that. I'm not, I'm not saying that that's parenting. 

Mike Bonelli [10:42 - 10:48]: Well, no, you have to. Yeah, there's. Well, this. There's a. Because there's a difference between not pushing and then not doing anything. 

Lee MJ Elias [10:48 - 10:49]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [10:49 - 11:00]: So there's a. There's a difference between, like saying, okay, well, I've got to influence them a little bit. But they can't be if, you know, you are now committed to this and that's all there is to It. 

Lee MJ Elias [11:00 - 11:15]: Right. And I'm all about just helping them create great questions. Right. Because I can tell you and Mike, you know this. Krista, you know this. If you let them come to the answer on their own, if they can figure it out, that's going to stick a lot more than you telling them or else you're going to have to tell them 430,642 times before they usually. 

Christie Casciano [11:15 - 11:17]: They do figure it out. You're rightly right. 

Lee MJ Elias [11:17 - 11:18]: Yeah. 

Christie Casciano [11:18 - 11:19]: Figure it out. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [11:19 - 11:25]: They're always listening. I like, I hate to say that they're listening. They might not be doing. Or maybe they're not listening. Who knows? All right. 

Christie Casciano [11:25 - 11:25]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [11:25 - 11:41]: I do want to talk about this too, that, you know, there is a lot of high pressure hockey out there. What are the signs? Right. We'd be remiss if we didn't discuss this. What are the signs? Your kid really is burning out. We've had episodes on this. But. But you know that maybe there's a shift that needs to happen. 

Christie Casciano [11:42 - 12:04]: Right? So you've got. Fatigue would be one of them. Sleep problems, muscle pain, weight changes, decreased enjoyment in sports. It seems like it would be obvious, but sometimes kids are very stoic. They might not necessarily run to you and tell you, hey, you know, I'm burning out here. You have to look for those signs. 

Lee MJ Elias [12:04 - 12:11]: You gotta know I'm terrified to tell you that, Kristi. They're terrified because you know why? Because every parents, you know how much money I spend on this, they're terrified to tell you. 

Christie Casciano [12:12 - 12:32]: So. Right. So make sure you let your kid know that you, you gotta come to me if this isn't fun anymore for you, if you feel like you don't want to go to the rink because it's just mentally wearing on you and physically wearing on you, you need to let me know. You need. We gotta have that open line of communication. 

Mike Bonelli [12:33 - 13:21]: Yeah. And there's usually one parent in the group that knows what that fatigue looks like. Right. I mean, don't, don't chat, don't, don't count on the dad, probably. But most, there's usually a parent that knows because, you know, when your kid's sick, you know, when they're off, like, my wife could tell, she'd be like, oh, he's a little off. Nah, he's fine. He'd suck it up. You know, I'm sure he's fine. The next day he's got a, you know, 102 fever. So I think it's just about like, you know, you, you know, parents know when Their kids are off. Right. So I think, you know, but, but most of us put our head in the sand and say, wow, they really, they really must love it. Like, I could, you know, this is just, it's just they're going through a little phase right now. So, so it's, it is hard. It's very difficult to say to, to identify what fatigue is and then, and then I guess make a decision whether that's, you know, a rationale for pulling them out of the sport or not. Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:21 - 13:31]: You know, one of the signs I look for, because I think with burnout is also there's a bit of consistency that has to happen. Like everybody has a bad morning here or there. Right. It's the consistency of. 

Mike Bonelli [13:31 - 13:33]: Right, right. It's not the back to back. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:33 - 13:33]: Yeah. 

Mike Bonelli [13:33 - 13:48]: And just like we say, you don't have a bad season on one weekend. Right, Right. That's right. You don't get, you don't get burned out after one practice, you know, like, oh, my kid's burned out. Like, no, you just watch them over a week of two weeks, over three weeks, and then you have to look at those and make that decision. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:49 - 13:55]: I know with my own kids, one of the things I look for is how am I fighting them to get to the rink. 

Christie Casciano [13:55 - 13:55]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [13:56 - 14:09]: Am I consistently fighting them to get to the rink? And most of the time that's not the case. Now, now, parents, I'm not talking about, did you pack your bag? Did you, did you put this on? And the kids are playing something and they're, they're procrastinating. I'm talking like they don't want to go. 

Christie Casciano [14:09 - 14:09]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [14:09 - 14:42]: All right. To be fair, I mean, not to be fair, I'm very blessed that I have not experienced that too much yet. Right. My kids generally want to go. They're not fighting it, but that's something, you know, a telltale sign that, hey, something might be wrong. And then I'll just say this. In ending this kind of little segment here, it's about having a conversation. If you give your kid a yes or no question, are you burnt out? They're going to tell you no. All right? Highly unlikely they're going to say, yeah, all right. But if you, if you ask them a little bit of a more long tail question of, hey, I've noticed that you're having a hard time getting to the rink. 

Christie Casciano [14:42 - 14:42]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [14:42 - 15:38]: Is something going on? Are you, are you enjoying hockey? All right. And then I sometimes will say, keeping in mind too, that in my household, hockey is a very big thing. It is My profession. Right. So I will, I will often tell them, remember, kids, you don't have to do this because I do it right. I want you to enjoy this and want to do it. That really opens them up to, there's no wrong answer here. You're not going to disappoint me by saying no. At least not outwardly. I'm just kidding. They wouldn't disappoint me either way. I want to talk about this too, because there's going to be part of the audience that says, well, a rec league, a three on three rec league. What kind of development can happen in the fun league? Parents, so much, so much development can happen when they have that lightly structured or unstructured play if the environment is there for them to learn. Okay. When the environment's not there, it can be annoying. Mike is, Mike is looking all around the screen. Mike, what do you got? 

Mike Bonelli [15:39 - 16:29]: Because, because I'll keep using this word, like, who cares about the development? Like, it doesn't, right. The development doesn't matter if your kid quotes quits. So what's the point of development? Like, like, like we can't all lead. Like everything can't lead. And we have these episodes all the time about, I know, what sport, what sport should my kid play to be better at hockey? I'm like, who cares? Right? They shouldn't. Like the, the development piece is literally for elite athletes. Like the development piece is for players that are going to move on to play. But if at 11 years old, your child quits playing, all the development in the world's not helping them. There's plenty of developed athletes that are great developmentally that hate the sport. Right, Right. They can't stand going. So I, I think we just got to be careful about, you know, you know, because I, I do agree with you. Lead. Everybody's going to go, oh, well, of course, a three. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:30 - 16:33]: I kind of framed this picture, this question to tick you off. I'm not gonna lie. 

Mike Bonelli [16:34 - 16:41]: They're just gonna, oh, well, how are they going to develop? I go, well, how are they going to develop when they're not playing anymore? How about that? Like they didn't really not develop. 

Lee MJ Elias [16:41 - 16:41]: Right. 

Mike Bonelli [16:41 - 17:06]: So I think it's like, I think it's, so I think there's a matter of all of us as parents have to say what is, is, is, is what is development mean in the context of where my kid is playing? And you're absolutely right. Like most parents would see. Now, I, I, I, I didn't mean to cut you off because you're Right. I mean, developmentally, three on three, and, and, and, and, and these other ways to play are probably just as good or better anyway. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:06 - 17:07]: Yeah, they might be better, but you. 

Mike Bonelli [17:07 - 17:14]: But you can't look at it as. There's nobody out there teaching my kid how to play and get better, so it's not as valuable to me. 

Lee MJ Elias [17:14 - 17:15]: Well. And. 

Christie Casciano [17:15 - 17:55]: Well, and I would encourage a parent to sit there in the stands, and if your kids out there, three on three with those buddies, what you're going to see and what you're going to hear, you're going to see a lot of smiles. You're going to see some real hustle out there because they get real competitive with each other. And you hear a lot of laughter. You know, they have a blast. And those bums even get closer with their buddies. You know, these are. These are going to be the kinds of skating and events that happen in their life that they're always going to remember. You know, they'll joke about it years later with each other. Remember, if I smoke down that three on three, you know. 

Mike Bonelli [17:56 - 18:03]: Well, again, and how do you develop? You develop by competing. And what makes competition the best? When it's fun. 

Christie Casciano [18:04 - 18:04]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:05 - 18:58]: I'm gonna, I'm gonna segue this into, like, the second half of this, too. I was at a summer league game yesterday, and summer league is notorious for just being horrendous. Right. I'm sitting in the stands, I'm having a lot of great conversations with the parents. And Mike, to your point, because, you know, the games are horrible. And I made the joke that in the regular season, we play chess. Summer league, we're playing checkers. All right? And I said, this is their time. This is their time to just go freaking out. Now, the reason I'm bringing this up is because tactically, I'm going to say it again. Tactically, it was some of the worst hockey I've ever seen. I didn't say a word. You know, why? The smiles on their faces. I saw a kid, one of my favorite players to coach. He is such a quiet kid, and he went down a breakaway, scored a goal, and he did a huge, like, Hulk Hogan celebration down the. I never, I've never seen this kid do that. 

Christie Casciano [18:59 - 18:59]: Fantastic. 

Lee MJ Elias [18:59 - 19:00]: And people were laughing. 

Christie Casciano [19:00 - 19:01]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [19:01 - 20:00]: And, you know, I also made the joke, why pass when you can score? But the point was this. This is. This is a league where they can try and. And this is where it segues in. The hockey was horrible. But you know what? The effort wasn't. They were really going at it. They were really Playing hard. I mean, and not to hurt each other. They were skating. And. And that in the letter that we got. And I want to point this out because you could feel it in the way it was written. The, the fun league was not just fluff. It drove her effort. It brought her confidence back. The fun. Mike, this is, this is your point. Fun might be the most forgotten part of development. Right, Right. If you want to look at it, merge them together, it wasn't something extra, but it was essential for this young player's ability to move forward. And I guess gotta. I gotta close the question or the, the comment on this, guys, is that. Mike, to your point, if it's not fun, who can. I mean, the developed men doesn't matter anymore. It's. You're not going to develop if you're not having fun, period. 

Mike Bonelli [20:00 - 20:28]: And I think you have to know as an athlete, like, so if you're a parent and you're not an athlete, like, if you're a parent that has a good athlete or, or, you know, apparent that you are. That you're now in the room and you're like, oh, my son's an athlete, but I never was an athlete. Like, I didn't play sports. That the levels of what makes something fun, fun for an athlete probably is different than what somebody should be looking at as fun. Like, I always look at, like, if you, like, like, to me, fun is winning. Right? 

Lee MJ Elias [20:28 - 20:30]: Yeah, I agree. 

Mike Bonelli [20:31 - 20:45]: What level of competing do you need to do now? It might not be fun getting to the win. It actually is very hard work. But. But you know, and it's. And it's. And it's not fun to get up and work out. It's not fun to eat correctly. It's not fun. Fun to do the things you. 

Lee MJ Elias [20:45 - 20:48]: Embrace the suck, Mike. Embrace the suck from our friends. 

Mike Bonelli [20:48 - 21:44]: But I think that. And I think that's where people get a little disillusioned. The fact that these, these people that they're looking at as the elite athlete and the player that's like, developmentally sound is doing things that they deem fun that most of us look at and like, that's not fun. Like when somebody like, like trains for a marathon, like, that's not fun. But the person training for the marathon probably thinks it's a ball. Like, they love it. Like, like they think it's fun. But a normal person like me, somebody says that's stupid. Like, why would you do that to yourself? But, you know, but these other people go, that is fun for me. Like, I gotta rush out of that. I gotta high from that. I gotta, you know, I got. I got to a point where I saw that in my. In my scheme of how I'm trying to develop, and that was fun. Where. Where again, I think to go. Let's go back to the beginning of the conversation. If your kid is not experiencing those things, it's probably because they're just not that person and they're probably not going to be a great hockey player. I gotta throw this in. 

Lee MJ Elias [21:44 - 22:15]: They shouldn't be having fun for Christie here. Right? So, Mike, you bring up a really strong point here, because I actually think what you're saying is not limited to the player. It's. It's the family. Right. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna say this right away. Look, not everyone has that standard that you're talking about. And, and that's okay. Believe it or not, if a kid does not have the standard to eat right, work out and do all these things, it's okay. All right. But that also means they have to be somewhat realistic about the outcome. Right. The kid who wants to do all that stuff, the standards high. And Christy, this is where I'm going to throw it to you. 

Christie Casciano [22:15 - 22:15]: Sure. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:16 - 22:33]: The family tends to have the highest of standards as well. This is an ecosystem type deal. Right. I've never. I shouldn't say never. I have rarely met a kid who is into everything, Nutrition, working out in the game, and their parents are going to McDonald's every day. 

Christie Casciano [22:33 - 22:33]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:33 - 22:43]: I don't. You don't see that? Right. So it's about the environment. I'm bringing it to you, Christy, because you're both Your kids are highly successful, you're highly successful. The environment. Right, Right. 

Christie Casciano [22:43 - 22:58]: And that's a great way to put it. It's an ecosystem that's fabulous. I never really thought about that before, but yeah, that's. That's. You nailed it. That is a great way to describe it. You're all working together here, so you have to set good examples too. 

Lee MJ Elias [22:58 - 22:58]: Right. 

Christie Casciano [22:58 - 24:04]: And we tried to do that with our kids. We're lucky because they were self motivated and we kind of learned a lot from them about nutrition, sort of, and working out. They steered me in a different direction. You know, mommy really shouldn't be eating this, or did you know what you're eating, how much, you know, sodium is in that? So. So they kind of taught me how to, you know, take better care of myself. And I got motivated by them, seeing them working out. So it can, you know, it can actually benefit you as parents too, because Learn from the kids. Yeah. So I mean, sports has so many great opportunities for your kids. You know, they can help and studies have shown they're mentally better fit, but there's that delicate balance because then the parents want to jump and push and that's where the anxiety can, you know, cause stress. So it's sort of like a double edged sword, a delicate balancing act. Yes, you want your best for your kids, but you also don't want to push them so hard that they're burning out and showing fatigue and, and just want to just. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:04 - 24:46]: And this is why I say, this is why I say environment. Really quick example, Mike. I'll throw it to you after this. When I was growing up, my dad lift weights in, in our basement. And he never asked me to do it, but I'd see him doing it. And you know what happened one day I said, hey, dad, can you teach me how to lift weights? All right. In my house? You know, in, in, in this time period, we have, we have a peloton, we've got a bunch of exercise equipment. My wife and I regularly work on the house. Guess what happened? My daughter jumped on the peloton. Not prompted. Right. My son, my son's doing some of the, the move. You know, the band works that we do. The ecosystem, the, the environment existed. I'm not saying it's every family. And I know it sounds like I'm bragging a little bit. I'm really proud of my kids for doing this. 

Christie Casciano [24:46 - 24:47]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:47 - 24:56]: But I'm saying like the environment is there. Okay. So. So parents, if you're on your kids about eating and working out and you're not doing any of that. 

Christie Casciano [24:57 - 24:57]: Right. 

Lee MJ Elias [24:57 - 25:00]: There's some recipe for bird out there. 

Christie Casciano [25:00 - 25:19]: I get scolded by. And it's still to this day. I got scolded by my daughter the other day because I was feeling a little sluggish and I went and I got an energy drink and I walked in the house with it. She goes, mom, what are you doing? She's got all over me. You know, those are not good for you. You shouldn't be drinking that. 

Lee MJ Elias [25:19 - 25:23]: I bet you, you had a lot of energy though. I bet you were ready to go after that. 

Christie Casciano [25:23 - 25:25]: I was ready to go. Come on, let's go. 

Mike Bonelli [25:26 - 26:59]: It's a funny. It's funny, right? Because that let go the other way too. The letter could be. Oh. My daughter is in a non competitive rec league. And you know what I did this spring? I gave her a chance to be with high performers this year. This spring I gave her A chance to be with players that thought differently and acted differently and had a different motivation. And my daughter rose to the occasion and rose to the level of play. So I think, and that's, you know, what we're saying in the middle of the conversation, right, about reading your athlete and reading your family and reading the performer is because it could, you know, I just, I just think when you're, when you have a kid that can make a decision, sometimes being around high performing players and other kids will elevate them to stay as a high performer as opposed to, you know, being with, you know, you are like, you know, we used to joke around all the time. I said, you want to hang out, you know, on, at 9:00 clock at night, at 7:11, guess who you're going to be, you know, like, you know, sitting on the corner. So it's all you are who you, you hang out with, right? You are who your friends are. And I think that for athletes that if you're going to be, if, if you think you might have a high performer and maybe you're not giving that player the opportunity to really find that in them, right, Then that's the other way too. Like, it goes both ways. I mean, and, and I think because burnout could happen by a kid just not having fun because they're, they're bored. They're, they're like. Because they're not, they're not, they're not getting any competition in a place where you're like, oh, this is really competitive for me. I want to get better. I want the extra time. 

Lee MJ Elias [26:59 - 27:01]: Mike, this is a perfect segue, right? 

Christie Casciano [27:01 - 27:05]: And that's where it's not a one size fits all. You know, you got to know. 

Lee MJ Elias [27:07 - 29:12]: Well, let's, let's look. There's some elements in this letter as we kind of come to the ending side of the episode here. One of the things that I was going to bring up here is too, Mike, we talked about environment, we talked about, yes, this absolutely go with both. Goes both ways. But I actually know from talking to this person because we, we do message back and forth once in a while, you know who you are, that the coaching at the elite level that she plays at crushes her. I mean they, they are at least from the, the point of view of the parent, right? It's, it's a highly stressful environment. The other part of this letter was that she was playing with a coach that she loved, right. And I'd be remiss as a coach if I didn't bring this up. Right. The person leading you and your kids is so important. Right. And that her confidence is back. She's having fun playing with a coach that she loves. And I'm sure the coach is a good coach. Okay. This is why it's so important that you don't just look at AAA All Star Showcase. It's who's coaching the team. You can be on a lesser letter team with a great coach. You will, you will a have way more fun, but you're also going to develop one. I'm going to say it again. You can't develop properly if there's not some aura of fun in the game. All right. And if your kid does not enjoy being back skated, which should never happen. Right. It's probably not where they're supposed to be. So I'm going to kind of combine these into a question. The coach played a big role and also the other part of the letter was less is more. It was one skilled session. One game wasn't on the ice five days a week, four days a week. Again, this environment was correct for this kid. I don't want anybody to take away from this episode. I got to get my kid into this situation. It's the parent. As you said, Christy, the parent understood the kid was burning out. They found a better environment. And it brings us to our final question, which, which I'm not sure how we're going to go on this, which was at the end of the letter, he said, well, we're going to do both leagues this year. We're going to do the high level league and the rec league. So now the question comes up is, is dual rostering smart? You know, travel, rec, long term, is that good, Is that bad? Yeah. Now, I come from an area where my kids play club and school, so this isn't crazy for me. 

Mike Bonelli [29:12 - 29:12]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [29:12 - 29:14]: But it's something to talk about real quick. 

Christie Casciano [29:14 - 30:51]: Right. High school level, my kids all double rostered. They played, you know, Syracuse Nationals and they also played high school hockey and they did fine with it. And we were fortunate because the coaches work together to make the schedules work for our kids. So there wasn't a lot of pressure like, oh, if you miss this game with the Nationals, you know, because of a high school hockey game, you know, you're off the team. It wasn't like that. So fortunately we had coaches that work together and they all double rostered. My son too, played on a sport, sports, high level league and high school, and he did fine with it. But again, it's, you got to know your kid because There is a real concern about burnout and the sports culture. I'll say it again. Youth sports culture now is wired today for burnout. It really is. And that's where parents need to step in. Know the signs. Know your kid. If your kid isn't ready to play up, which can be great. When we put our kids on an upper level team, we saw a vast improvement in how they skated, in their attitude toward, you know, competitiveness because they were playing up, but they were ready for it and they thrived in that. Some kids who were on the same team didn't. They burned out, weren't having fun, got hurt, got injured and then they were done, walked away from it. So again, you just got it. It's not. You can't say this is right for every kid. You have to know what's right for your kid. 

Mike Bonelli [30:53 - 31:29]: Yeah, I don't know if this was even a double rostering question. In my head. It's more of like, I want the best of both worlds kind of question. Right. I mean, you know, so I don't know. To me it's like if you have a player that's leaning one way or the other, I mean, the real, the real, I guess choice for me would be, well, who is your child? Like you, you. If, if it's the rec kid, then let them and then do more of that. And if it's the competitive travel kit, do more of that. But I don't know if you're going to see like imagine, imagine the Jekyll and High feeling of going from the coach that's great that you hate to the coach you like, that sucks. 

Lee MJ Elias [31:29 - 31:31]: Well, you're not going to want to go there. 

Mike Bonelli [31:31 - 32:11]: Like it's just, well, yeah. And then eventually. And maybe the choice gets made for you. Like, I'm sick this day, but I feel great the next day. Or, or now you want, if you feel like you're even burned out a little bit now, even add. Now you're adding another layer to that because it's time and, and you know, she's getting to the age where she's going to be going to middle school and high school and like this is. There's a lot going on there. So, you know, again, I don't know. I don't know if you're looking the double roster because you want the mix of both. I would always lean to, why don't you just go to the place that's having the most fun, you know, like, as opposed to, as opposed to, well, I'm going to have her have some pain on Saturday and Sunday, and she's going to love Tuesday. I don't know, you know, so I don't know the person. And if you do, then great. 

Christie Casciano [32:11 - 32:14]: But your kids, Your kids double rostered in high school, right? 

Mike Bonelli [32:15 - 32:18]: They do. But that. But that. But they had fun, and they were having fun in both. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:18 - 32:18]: Right? 

Mike Bonelli [32:18 - 32:24]: Like, there was. There was no. There was no, like, oh, I hate that. But I'm gonna double roster anyway because I hate it. 

Christie Casciano [32:24 - 32:25]: Right? My kids. 

Mike Bonelli [32:25 - 32:29]: To me. To me, there's a distinct. Like, I don't like that other option. 

Lee MJ Elias [32:31 - 32:36]: I'm gonna say this too. If you don't like it, I'm not. I don't want to do it either. Yeah, I could use the time. 

Mike Bonelli [32:37 - 33:17]: I guess the double rostering idea is for the upside obsessed kid that loves everything, and then you're like, I just need more ice. And I want to be with my. Like, every. Like. And Christy knows this from New York State. Like every kid in New York State, double rosters. They play for their high school team, which is. And they play for the travel team, which is both nuts. Like, but they're like, it's crazy that they have to do this, but it's just the options they have where in other states you can only play for one or the other. So maybe that kid would do more of like a wreck type thing. But I think in this question, this particular question, it's a dad that's saying she hates team A. She loves Team B, but because she loves team B so much more, we're going to keep her in both. I'm like, well, yeah, don't even put her in A. 

Lee MJ Elias [33:17 - 33:18]: It's a weird equation. 

Christie Casciano [33:18 - 33:19]: Don't put her in A. 

Mike Bonelli [33:20 - 33:33]: But again, that's. They. They know. But again. But I think to your point, they know. They know the family best and they know the player, and they. They can read the room and figure it out. But again, if it's a question of fun over no fun, then I would go with the. The one team. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [33:33 - 34:29]: You know, just in closing this out, I love these episodes and these conversations because it's a paradox, right? There's no way for us to land at A. This is the correct thing to do. Thus proving, remember I always said the audience, you're not crazy. The hockey world is crazy. And. And if there is a takeaway from this episode, you guys tell me if you. You agree, it's A, the fun has to be there, B, it's about balance, and C, maybe most importantly, it's about knowing your kid this parent is, is as all of you are listening, invested in their child's well being, not their child making it to whatever level. Right. That's a side step. So, but these are the conversations that have to happen within the game. And I, I, I mean, if you're both you, I love that we get to kind of do that. Right. Any final thoughts before we close this out? Because I know Mike. Mike who? By the way, we should give a shout out to Mike who's joining us live from Norway. 

Christie Casciano [34:29 - 34:29]: Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [34:29 - 34:42]: It's almost 5:00' clock in the evening. It's, it's almost 11:00am on the east coast on this side of the pond. But I want to give a big shout out to Mike who's joining us from Norway today. He makes, he, he goes all out. Christy. I love that about, I know. 

Christie Casciano [34:42 - 34:44]: Did you have caviar for breakfast this morning? Just one? 

Mike Bonelli [34:44 - 34:51]: No, no, we're looking, we're looking for salmon. But more, more, more, more, more. That everybody, you know that I'm allowed to do this, which is, I love. 

Christie Casciano [34:51 - 34:55]: That they serve caviar in a tube for breakfast. Amazing. 

Lee MJ Elias [34:55 - 34:56]: I had Eggo waffles. 

Mike Bonelli [34:57 - 34:59]: I just ordered my liver post day. 

Christie Casciano [34:59 - 35:01]: And it's, I love Norway. It's so. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:01 - 35:02]: I don't know why he comes back. 

Mike Bonelli [35:03 - 35:04]: I don't know. I don't know either. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:05 - 35:08]: Yeah. All right. We'll have to do a show one. 

Mike Bonelli [35:08 - 35:16]: Day and I think, and I think, you know, for me to sum it up too, it's just that Lee makes the point that we really have no answers for any of you. So why don't you even listen? 

Lee MJ Elias [35:18 - 35:20]: Well, you know, they have listed we're over 400 episodes here. 

Mike Bonelli [35:20 - 35:34]: Someone's listening, right? We can't really come up with any answers, but we come up with a lot of, a lot of solutions, a lot of opinions. Yeah, a lot of opinions. But it's all. But I get again, read the room, know your kid. And I think ultimately, you know, pick fun. 

Christie Casciano [35:35 - 35:53]: Yeah, exactly. Make sure whatever sport your kid plays that they're growing, learning and enjoying it. That this is the best time in your life. You have a big role to play to make sure that you're guiding them along the way and you're in a positive way. Yeah. 

Lee MJ Elias [35:53 - 36:32]: What's that song? Life is life. Enjoy your life, my friend. Listen, this has been a tremendous episode and I'm going to close it out there. For Mike Benelli, for Christy Cash and A. Burns. I'm Leah Lias. You've been listening to our kids play hockey. Remember, if you have a message like this. If you have a story like this you'd want us to discuss. Email us team@our kids play hockey.com or accompanying every episode in the description there's a text link. Text it. Send us your name. You can make it anonymous now. I'm thinking about it. Let us know where you're from. Tell us your story. We'll share it on the air. I think the more of that we do, the better. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you on the next episode. Remember, skate hard. Have fun. Enjoy your day, everybody. 

Mike Bonelli [36:32 - 36:33]: Awesome. 

Lee MJ Elias [36:33 - 37:01]: We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kids playhockey.com also make sure to check out our children's book, when hockey stops at when hockeystops.com it's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey and we'll see you on the next episode. 

Mike Bonelli [37:06 - 37:06]: Sa.