Too Many Coaches on the Bench? Youth Hockey’s Loudest Problem.

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another

edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. It's Lee Elias with Christie Casciano -Burns and

Mike Bonelli. Got another mailbag episode with you. I'm going to dive right into it

because the letter is a little long, but very entertaining to read. Here we go.

Hey, guys. Always enjoy listening to your podcast. I've got a coaching question for

you. Well, my friend, you've come to the right place. I'm a newish hockey parent

with an eight -year -old playing his second year in a fairly competitive well -run

organization and a 10 -year -old playing his first year with a less competitive

organization. As it was that the 10 -year -old's first year playing hockey, he was

placed on a team with a bunch of other kids who were also new to hockey, which is

great. It makes perfect sense. Because this team was made up of a lot of kids that

hadn't really played, they didn't have any coaches lined up. They sent out an email

asking for volunteers. So myself and two other parents volunteered to help out, and

the team was also assigned a non -parent coach that had been involved with the

organization for 35 plus years. I'm happy that I get to help out, learn some things

about coaching, help the kids, etc.

Now we're into the season and playing games. We have four quote quote, coaches on

the bench. The two other parent coaches who don't have any hockey experience outside

of putting their kids through learn to play are big into yelling directions at the

players while they're on the ice. And it's driving me nuts. It's non -stop. It's

getting to the point where I don't even want to be on the bench during games. I

also feel like four adults on the bench may be one too many. Do the kids really

need to get feedback from three to four people? I had imagined that my primary job

was opening the door, organizing the lines, providing some encouragement, and letting

the head coach do the real coaching in between shifts. I haven't said anything to

the head, non -parent head coach yet. I'm just not sure if or how to approach the

situation. I look at my eight -year -old's coaching situation, and it's a night and

day difference, calm and limited coaching during games. Am I being too dramatic? I

was excited to help out, but I'm tempted to only join the bench when one of the

other coaches aren't there. And before we discuss this, because I know there's going

to be a lot of listeners to go, I know this situation. This situation happens

everywhere, okay? I'm saying that because I don't want people start going into there.

Did you write our kids play hockey so they would talk about it? I am telling you,

I see this everywhere. So it's a great question. It's a very well written letter,

and I appreciate you sending it to us, sir. Great stuff. Who wants to start? Well,

I haven't seen this or experienced it, but I would say there are definitely too

many cooks in the kitchen. You need to narrow those, that coaching staff down, and

you definitely need to speak up. The only way it's going to work is if somebody

says something that says, this is not working. You can't be a silent partner here,

Because you've got to think about who are you helping the kids. That's your goal.

If the kids are not progressing, if they're not developing, if there's a bunch of

argumentative people on the bench, you've got to do your part in making that work

better. So don't be a silent partner here. That's my advice.

So when Jim wrote this about me, I really didn't think that he would have brought

this to a public forum like this. A very public forum. A top -ranked podcast,

I might add. So there's two ways to go about it. Number one is you can go in the

stands and undermine the three other people that are left on the bench and just

keep, you know, pointing out how terrible they are and, you know, saying, oh, can

you believe what they're doing here again? Look at them yelling at the kids. Do

you, you know, do you think they should be all at the kids? You know, so you

could be that person, which happens in every organization and every place in youth

hockey, right, that player or that coach that goes up to the stands and then he's

not known with a coach and you can blame the other three people for the demise of

that organization. The other way you could do that, I think depending on where your,

I don't know, stature is in the group or how well you think the maturity level is

with the other adults that are on the bench, it might be a great time to introduce

like delegation and introduce like the ability to say,

hey, if I did this, would you love to handle this? Or if I could help you with

this, would you love to handle that. And I think this way, to Christy's point,

you start having some clear definitions of who the leadership is and who is

directing, I guess, the bench and practices. I mean, I'm thinking about this guy in

games right now. I can't really imagine what practice must look like. I mean, is it

just four different people doing their own thing and throwing things out there and

coming up with a plan? It's hard to tell, right, from the letter. But in the game

situation, you know, especially at that age, that calm, cool, collected, you know,

bench is so crucial. And I think the only way you get that if you're in the

inner, you know, if you're in the inner circle already, which is hard enough to get

in for a lot of parents, you know, try to be the voice of reason by having an

adult conversation, not like two minutes before the game, but strategically maybe look

out and say, hey, you know, we should, you know, what I love to do because I'm

really good at, I'd like to do this. And maybe it's, it helps other coaches on the

bench say, well, I'd love to do this. And then at least you have a conversation

about, you know, who could be, you know, leading the group that day or on the

bench, you know, for that section of time that you have the kids. No. You

definitely need some definition there of what roles you need to play. Yeah. Well,

and look, like, I think that's important in everything in life, not just, not just

coaching. I think the players should have roles. The coaches should have roles. You

should have roles at work. I wrote a few notes here, but I want to answer this

question. He wrote at the end, am I being too dramatic? Simple answer, no, you're

not. This is an incredibly common thing. I do want to say that. And I want to use

my own experience here. This is my coaching belief. And, you know, I do mentor

coaches. So take it for what it's worth. Really great coaching takes place in games

on the bench. I coach the kids on the bench. If I'm yelling something out on the

ice, and this is a really important distinction, it is to alert the kids or make

them aware of something I don't think that they're aware of. If you are telling

them where to go and what to do, you are you are doing play -by -play, all right?

And play -by -play is not coaching, all right? I want my players to know, okay, I'll

kind of go young ages up. Like, if we're not moving, it's very common at younger

ages for kids to watch the game sometimes when they're on the ice and not be

moving. I always love telling this story. With my daughter's team, we have a word,

donuts. If you hear me yell donuts, you're not skating hard enough. And I'll tell

you what, they don't look at the bench when I yell, they just start moving, all

right? Adversely, and I love telling this story. I was telling a coach, maybe this

is a little bit of me patting myself on the back, but I told them this, don't

coach the kids on the ice, don't do play -by -played. And without fail one time, he

yelled at his kid. This was when they were nine years old, kind of yelled at his

kid to do something. The kids stopped dead on the ice and turned to the bench

while the puck went right by. right because like that was a young age just what

what what what right like they can't they can't compartmentalize that so here's the

deal coach for the person who wrote this but all coaches coach the kids on the

bench when they come off coach the kids that were on the ice or when they're on

the ice if you see the kids on the ice doing something incorrect tell the kids on

the bench what's going on don't just scream it out to the ice and i don't know

wait what i do want to say because i'm about to throw this to you Thank you.

Yeah, because Zamboni is coming around the turn and you've got a kid skating into

it. Yell, yell for him, yells loudly. Get away from the Zamboni. But I think it's

more, it's, I don't think this conversation in this particular scenario is about the

four individuals even understanding that the coaching on the bench is better than

yelling and screaming into the ice. it's more about the understanding that the one

voice on the bench is the most important piece of if I go and whisper in the

kid's ear and he gets off a shift and then the next shift the other coach goes

and whispers in the other ear and then somebody else yells something else out these

are these all these messes nothing none of this helps it doesn't even help the

coaching staff no because then I look and go wait am I wrong like I'm telling this

kid to do this, and then the mom and dad are telling the kid to do something

else. And it's really more of having an understanding that, you know, I mean,

it's like, it's like thinking about, like, if you went to your kids, imagine if

every parent went to their kids home phys ed classes, like at school. And every

time the, the phys ed teacher was teaching kickball, each parent had the opportunity

to have a conversation with their kids about kickball. Like, it's like, imagine what

that would look like. Well, for the kid, too.

You have to think about the same way, and somehow this coach has to be able to

approach his coaching partners in the same way that, like,

I can leave the bench, guys. Like, I'll go ahead and stands. I have no problem

with it. But no matter what, we've got to resolve the problem of all these voices

in these kids' ears. And if it's me, if I'm the problem, Because most likely it's

this guy's the problem, like, that's writing the letter. No, I'm kidding.

He's like, I want these other people off the bench. I'm the smartest guy on the

bench. No, no, to take this credit, he said he would leave the bench most games.

Right, so, yeah. Right. But maybe it's him saying, listen, guys, if it helps the

situation, I'll leave the bench, but somebody has to be the voice, not all of us

be the voice. And maybe it takes that one person saying, well, listen, how about

today's game? Me and Joey, we'll go sit up in the stands. You two guys take the

game. He says in the letter, there is a head coach. So I think that brings up a

good point. The head coach must provide guidance and leadership for the assistant

coaches. Yeah, but maybe the head coach is the least mature out of all the group.

I don't know. They said that there's a, there is a non -parent coach involved.

You're right. I don't know who the head coach is. But I will say this. And this

is an important one too, right? I have a lot of experience in this game now. Okay.

If I am not the head coach, that, to me, the head coach reserves the right to

make the decisions. If I agree with them or not, right? That's a tough thing for

some people to swallow. All right? If the head coach says, this is how we're

playing, it is not my job as the assistant coach to tell the kids anything

different. I can have a conversation with that head coach away from the team of, I

don't agree with this. Here's what I'd like to do. But it's also the head coach's

job to say, nope, don't agree with that. This is what we're doing. So Mike, to

your point about one voice, the head coach must provide that guidance, that

leadership, the blueprint of how you're going to play. And assistance, you really

have to adhere to that, all right? And I, because I've seen it too, Mike, where

the assistant goes, no, we're going to play this way. I mean, oh, man, is

detrimental. No, no, it hurts everybody. I mean, even even Gordon Bombay knows this.

I mean, you know, the bottom line is like, you know, you're the head coach and

your boss is your assistant coach, but you have to listen to the head coach. Right.

Like it's just, it's just like this is crack mix of dustworth. Yeah, yeah. So, so

this is just one of those things where you just have to be able to be in a

situation where somebody has to have an adult conversation. And somebody, and maybe

it's this guy willing to extract themselves right from the place of the conflict

right and then by just by virtue of that's all it's left on the bench there's only

one person talking to the kid right so do they meet as a group should this person

call a call a meeting the four of them get together well let's say there's fighting

among the four they don't get along, then you've got to go to the head of the

organization, I think, at that point. Well, Christy, I would say this. You need to

designate the top coach and an assistant coach and two have to,

can be helpers, but not coaching. Putting ego aside is one of the hardest things to

do. Sure. But I will say this, the best coaching staffs I've ever been on, and

this is at any level, communicated all the time. In fact, I've praised my son's

coaching staff from last year. We didn't win a lot of games. We talked every day.

And I wanted to write this. We had four coaches also. And there were many games.

Most games, I did not go on the bench because I felt four voices was too much.

Agree. Right? All right. And so if you, especially if you know you're a strong

voice. Like, if you know you're a strong voice and you're like, so is it better?

Is it healthier for me, sit in the stands and sit on my hands than fight being on

the bed? And people seeing my eye rolls and seeing the, like the heavy breathing.

And maybe it's better just to extract yourself in the situation and know that,

listen, I can't help anybody by being an undermining voice. And Mike, this might

shock you, but I'm a pretty dominating voice when I'm on a bench. That is a shock.

That's a shock. But here's like my boy, my wife will warn me every time like

anybody asked me to be like an assistant coach. All Mike, we'd love you to come be

an assistant coach. You don't want to be that. That ain't going to work. Well,

well, here's the thing. Where I was going with this is this. I know myself. I know

how I am on the bench, right? I'm very vocal. The head coach last year is also

like that. So I understood I do not, they don't need these two voices. Right. So

The only time I ended up on the bench was if the head coach wasn't there and I

was kind of like, I kind of replaced that spot on the bench, or if they asked me

to be there. And there were reasons for that. And when they did ask me, there was

a role, right? Like, hey, this player might need a little help. Can you focus on

this player? And I love that. I'll also say this too, that watching the games as a

coach, give, you know, you forget how much of a different perspective you get in

the stance, right, about seeing it differently. Like when you're not coaching or

you're not seeing things. And, you know, there were some great text conversations

from coach to coach with that. But just kind of to answer this person's question, I

think four coaches at this level, at this age group is too much, right? I do agree

with that. And I think you have to have that conversation. But again, Christy, to

answer your question again, yeah, the best coaching staffs talk. They converse. They

disagree. Right. They understand how to disagree. And again, they understand the

hierarchy. The head coach has the final say. If you can't respect that as an

assistant, you should not be on the bench. Right. All right. It sounds like that's

not happening in this scenario. Perhaps. I mean, look, like this, the writer of this

letter also asked, I thought I would just be opening doors and closing doors. I

mean, look, if that's your role, there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. We need

that.

Trust me, like coaches appreciate that because the last thing I want to be doing

when I'm really coaching is opening and closing doles, right? It can become just, I

can't tell you how many times I've been in that position and there's a kid suddenly

there knocking like, coach, I'd like to get off the ice, please. I'm like, oh, my

bad. I wasn't watching this. But yeah, look, it's an interesting conversation again.

I think, again, from a coaching standpoint for the future, right? Like this team is

in the place it's in now. Coaches have these meetings, right, plan practices together

or head coach, create your practice and share it. And I'm going to say it again,

the team I'm talking about from last year was a 10 -U team, all right? A 10 -U

team was one of the best coaching staffs I've ever been on. And I've been to the

pro level, all right? Like, it's not like at the top level, they don't do this,

right? It can be done at any level you want. All right. But I'm going to say it

again, as I said in the beginning, if you're yelling at the kids on the ice and

you're telling them where to go, you are not coaching. You are not coaching. You're

telling everybody that you know, all right, for the most part. Again, if a kid is

not on the boards on a breakout, this is a common one at this age group, right?

The puck's coming out, they're not on the boards. Screaming at them, good all the

boards is, I don't know, below average coaching to me right it's they they should

have and it's and it's wrong yeah it is wrong too right like i see it everywhere

too that's not but that but that was your point earlier right that you're like you

don't know you're yelling and screaming about things that probably aren't even part

of the game anymore right so just like be be present be a cheerleader be a person

who can who can give a little bit of a vice on the bench don't give 15 pages

pages of and you know 10 minutes of whiteboarding it's not it's not being retained

it's going in and out and it's not helping anybody and a matter of fact now it's

distracting everybody on the bench not only the kid you're trying to talk to but

the four kids around you like it's just it again this is this is a 10 you hockey

team yeah this is a find a way to have fun find a way to be They're beginners.

Yeah, they're beginners. By the way, to praise every kid when they get off the ice,

whether they made a great pass or a good back check or didn't take a penalty where

they could have be a great cheerleader and just give the kid to some motivation

that might get back on the ice the next shift. Right. You know, another piece of

advice. You know, ego and, you know, ego and, you know,

trying to figure out who's the best. You just figure out how to make it an

experience that these kids are really going to remember and appreciate and develop.

Yeah. I'll give you another piece of advice that could be very eye -opening for the

coaches, especially if you have four, designates someone not to be on the bench

every game. You'd be shocked how much different you feel not on the bench watching

the kids play, right, than when you're in there and you feel like some personal

responsibility for the outcome of the game when you're not even playing in the game,

right? You know, the more, this is, this is going to make Mike laugh. The more you

coach, the more you realize how little you have to do with the outcome of the

game. When you start out, you think, man, it's on me to win this game. And then

you do it for 20 years and you realize, I got to give some structure so the

players can the game right all right also too you know i've talked about this in

previous episodes and christie you just brought it up the ego right that there's

there's there's subconscious fear that you're going to be judged if your 10 -year -old

loses this game and nobody cares all right well the best is when i watch these

coaches that that that claim to be great coaches and they're telling me what great

you know great

strategists they are and I'll watch every single game and they're down by a goal

with a minute left and there's goalie's still sitting in the net. I'm like, that's

when you actually, that's when you actually make it impact in the game. That's what

you should be yelling on the ice. Like you should be talking about like, hey, but

the next shift's going on. We have a face off in their zone. This is where I want

you to be in the zone. Like there's a lot to be said for just letting players

play. I get all that. But if you're going to claim to be a great strategist and

claim that you actually think that you're going to influence the results of a game

that actually coach like you're influencing the results of the game like do things

that that you see oh well that that player should be on the left wing not the

right wing or that player is my best defenseman but today i bet you if he's

playing wing we'd be a score go like be that coach don't be the guy who's thinking

you're out coaching the other team by having these long -winded conversations on the

bench of the kids that aren't listening to anyway. And at the end of the day,

aren't letting them just experience the joy of being out and playing. And if you're

that guy, if you're that other coach, you know, that if you're a smart enough

coach, you have three people on the bench with you, then make that person, give

them an assignment, say, coach, what I need you to do for me. Every period I need

you to keep track of turnovers. And in between periods, you're going to give me the

statistics for the kids to tell us where we get the most turnovers. Get that guy

busy. Make it be busy or her. That's great advice. I'm going to end it on this

unless you guys have other things too. We're talking about coaching. So, you know,

we say not to do this with players, but I can do this with coaches. Let's look at

the very top at the last few coaches who have won Stanley Cups, right? You got

Cooper, You got Jordan Bednar, and you've got Paul Maurice, right? Watch how they

interact with their players. Okay, I know you're not coaching NHL players at 10U,

but Cooper, super relatable to his players, super relatable, super nice guy,

hard on them when he needs to be, right, does that. Jordan Bednar, same way. Paul

Maurice comes across as a hard ass, but then you watch locker room footage of him

getting down, showing goalies, what to do, how to move, right? He's very sarcastic,

very funny. He knows when to get intense because he's dealing with NHL athletes.

People have said to me in the past, well, that's soft coaching doesn't work. Well,

they've won four, five, six, seven of the last seven Stanley Cups. All right.

Things have changed. All right. And if you think yelling, just one last piece of

perspective, Meet the kids where they're at. I can't imagine, keeping in mind, I

never played a U -10 U -Hockey. I didn't start until I was 12. I try and put

myself in the place of a kid that the coach is yelling at me. My parents are

yelling at me. My teammates are all over the place. Everyone's yelling at me. What

to do? I mean, how are they supposed to compartmentalize that? And you know what

ends up happening? They will find a voice they listen to at some point out of out

of admiration or fear right and and that's just typically where they're going to end

up going i don't think the fear response is the right response anymore i think most

of us grew up in a time period if you're over 40 where that was the way things

were done we had no idea what mental health and mental fitness was at that time

none right now we have a clue, and I wanted to say this. Statistics show,

and I can share this report. Kids who are yelled at and demeaned by their parents

are not ending up being the tough kid anymore. They are becoming the shy kid,

the introverted kid, the kid who moves away from the sport. That's the world we're

in today. All right? And people say, well, back in my day, that didn't happen. Back

in our day, we didn't know what a concussion was. We thought it was a day -to -day

injury. Things have evolved, and we have to evolve, too. Seven of the last seven

Stanley Cup champion coaches coach this way. And you can too by listening to our

kids play hockey, the most wonderful show on the plan. No, Mike, Christy, was there

any other final thoughts before I close this out? Yeah, that's, I love that. That's

a great way to add that.

Yeah. We've learned a lot, haven't we?

And hopefully people listening to, especially the coaches. So take a look at your

bench. And after we've just had this conversation. And if things kind of red flagged

to you, take time to resolve it. This is, it's not too late. Even if you're in

the middle of the season, you can become better coaches. You can become a better

assistant coach, better parent, pitching in, helping the coaching staff.

So that's what it's all about. We're lifelong learners. Lifelong. I love that. Mike,

your final thoughts. Yeah, just if you're the head coach of this team, manage your

staff and just find the best, you know, people that can do the best things that

can help you. And if they can't help you, then ask them to go up in the stands.

That's it. Make it easy. Mike Bo knows. I'll say this as final two.

I want to thank the person who wrote this letter for being vulnerable enough to

write this. This is a very common situation in hockey. I'm really glad you wrote

this letter and really explained it well. And I'm going to do this again. You

asked, am I being too dramatic? It may be apropos, but we'll edit on this. You're

not crazy. The hockey world is crazy. All right. Thank you so much for this letter,

my friends. And if you have a letter, you want to send us, email us, team at our

kids, playhockey .com, or in the link accompanying this episode, sorry, in the

description accompanying this episode, there's a link. Tap on that, let us know who

you are, where you're from. Ask us anything. We love having these discussions. And I

think we just proved, my friends, that there's a lot of people out there with

questions like this. Ask them so we can discuss them. We don't always think of

these things, right? Right? And it just shows you, like, these are the conversations

we need to be having. And I'm so thankful Mike is, Christy, is too, that you let

us kind of lead those conversations for you, okay? That's going to do it for this

edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Share the episode, like it. Make sure you give us

five -star reviews on Google, on Apple, on wherever you listening to Our Kids Play

Hockey for Christy, for Mike. I'm Lee. We'll see you on the next episode, everybody.

Have fun. Play hockey. Enjoy your day. Take care. We hope you enjoyed this edition

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thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see

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