Tournament Turmoil: The Real Cost of Youth Hockey Tournaments

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another

exciting edition of our kids play hockey. We're going on the 60 Minutes route today.

I don't know if the episode will actually be 60 minutes, but this episode's been

brewing for a while. Okay, we've got letters from the audience. We've got members of

the hosting crew here wanting to talk about it. Today, we're talking about

tournaments, all right, and not the normal tournament episodes. There are some things

we've got to discuss that are happening in the tournament world that are maybe

unfair, unreasonable, maybe costing families a little bit too much money, and we're

going to dive into all of that today. Okay, so joining me, as always, one of my

two best friends in the world, Christie Casciano-Burns and Mike Bonelli. Christie, let's just

jump to you real quick because you are the senior hockey parent here, only in name,

not in years. And you have been through more tournaments than all of us, right?

What are your thoughts on the cost of tournaments, the amount of them we have to

do during the season, and where this ranks in kind of the youth hockey specter?

Yeah, I've lived and breathed tournament turmoil is what I like to call it. There's

the laundry list. I don't even worry. What's at the top of my list? Top of my

list is I couldn't stand. You would travel, oh, let's say Chicago for a tournament

only to play one of your hometown teams. Yeah. Ah!

Yeah. Why are we here? Why are we here? Right? The whole idea is you're going to

play new teams, new experiences, to see where you stand against other teams of the

nation, only to play a hometown team. That is a huge pet peeve.

That's number one. Mike, has that ever happened to your team? Yeah,

it's basically an ongoing concern, and I think we bring it up with everybody all

the time that, you know, why? So there's a couple of things there, right? Because

the way you're framing it was that people, I guess we have to first discuss, why

do you go to a tournament? Like, are you going to a tournament for the experience

of the place you're going to? Are you going to a tournament because of the need to

increase your rankings? Are you going to the tournament because of finding, like

desperately finding across the United States and the world competition that you could

match up against because you're Nothing within 60 miles of you can match up to the

competition of your kids. So there's all these, these all these things that we talk

about. Combalances, yeah. Yeah, but why do we go to a tournament? But I think one

of the reasons we don't go to a tournament is to go to hotels and fly places to

play a team that is within a half -hour drive of us. I would say that that's 100 %

of people would agree that is one reason not to go to a tournament. Agree.

Yeah. So, so I don't, yeah, and that's a very frustrating piece. I think as a

hockey director for whatever, how many years, I've always asked, like, please, like,

so there's two things, playing an organization that you could have played on a

Wednesday night at home. Right. And you're in Chicago. And the other thing is, like

in big organizations, like a lot of organizations I work with, that two of our

teams end up playing each other in a playoff matchup. Yeah. And I'm like, oh,

that's the, and that's like a program killer because it's just, it's just not, it's

an unforced error on everyone's part. Like, this is no record. Well, and who can

afford these things? Like, I'll say this thing, too. Like, a few years ago, and I'm

not going to say the organization name because I respect them, and they actually fix

this. But they decided to do a travel exposure series basically across the United

States where the same four teams played each other in four different locations. So I

got the idea, but the thing was this, you know, people can watch the games online.

So it was like they didn't get the exposure. They didn't get the people showing up

that they wanted to. The reason I'm not going to say the organization is because

they did do away with it right away. Like They understood this was not a good

thing. But they're like, who pays for this, right? And that's kind of where I'm

going to steer this to because we have a letter here, all right? And I should also

say this too. When you look at tournaments, you do have to do the kind of youth

hockey split of around 14 or 15 and up. It's a little bit of a different scenario

than down, 14, 15 up. You may be looking to get exposure. You may be looking to

play some top elite teams around the country to be, you know, in that sphere. I

mean, we could debate that, too, whether that's real. All right. But my opinion,

guys, is that when you're, you know, pre -teenager, these tournaments have to be fun.

And you should be going to a location where you can explore the location. We all

know, every parent's going to nod here. The season, you don't see your friends for

eight months. So if we're going to go to a tournament, at least take us somewhere

where I can go around downtown and have a family vacation along with the hockey,

right? The ones that come to mind, like Niagara Falls, Lake Placid, obviously we're

on the East Coast here, right? You know, locations like that, Washington, D .C., you

can turn that into a trip, right, and make it fun. But we got a letter here from,

again, no names, from one of our listeners that really kind of triggered this

episode. But she said, I always like to start with this. You may not know it, but

you're all on my team to help me with decisions whether or not you know it. My

question is about stay to play. So first off, thank you for being such a loyal

listener. We love all of you out there. My child was invited to participate in a

tournament. I'm going to redact some of this so we don't give anything like. He's

seven years old, okay? The tournament has a name, the cost is you have to buy a

room and the tournament. You have to stay the same night, so you have to be at

the hotel that they say is $426 for two nights. They're being charged $710 for two

nights if they do it at the tournament hotel that they're being forced to do,

right? So again, just for winding back because I'm reading this, they're saying that

they found a cheaper option, but they can't do it. So they're being charged $710

for two nights. They get a free breakfast, whatever that means. You get a gift bag

valued at $5, which is basically water in a lanyard, and then access to a knee

hockey area, all right? And they said, I wish we could opt out and pay the lesser

amount, but we can't. So we're now forced to try and raise our own money. I feel

like I have no choice. If my son doesn't pay the amount, his entire team will

forfeit the tournament. The tournament organized that said, staying at their hotel

rate is mandatory. It's on the website. And then she says, I ask the other moms if

they'd be willing to split the room with me, but no one was able to. That happens.

I'm hoping that maybe someone will listen to this and offer a solution. I'm planning

on talking to the coaches to see if we can opt out for next year. It's really

unfair because we're not giving the information regarding the cost of the tournaments

when we signed our kids up to play travel hockey. This is more common than I'd

like to admit. And I'm seeing this from a lot of tournaments now of, oh, we'll

book the hotel. We'll book everything. We'll put our 10 % on top of it. And it's

like the families can't afford it now i did hear from this this listener actually

over the weekend um and they were able to raise actually five thousand dollars

through funding so that's that's fantastic so like it's a nice end of the story but

they had to raise five thousand dollars to go to a tournament yikes right it

doesn't it doesn't make a lot of sense to me right that money could be used it's

already expensive enough right right So I would love your thoughts on this. And then

she's asking for help, right? Again, the fundraising, that's the back and forth that

we had with her, was ways to fundraise. But how did tournaments get away with this,

right? And here's the thing. We're not even talking about the hockey yet. I was at

a similar tournament where there was an A, B division, which blew my mind. They had

A and B teams together. That's not going to create a competitive balance. And guess

what happened guys the a teams killed the b teams of course right like i don't

understand like it's a cash grab i think some of the onus and mich i'll turn to

you some of the onus is also on our organizations to not book these tournaments

right unless they're just fantastic right but man that's a that's a tremendous amount

of money on top of what you're already paying we are pricing people out of the

sport you are definitely going to have kids who cannot afford to go to these

things. What do we doing? Yeah, I guess I'm kind of puzzled because,

in my experience, anyway, all parents have to agree we can afford this,

what are ways to offset the cost, and we work as a team to do fundraisers to help

balance the cost for families. Sharing rooms, I always did that. We always split the

hotel bills by sharing rooms with another mom. Dad's would share with dads.

A great way to save money and pitching for gas. You'd take one vehicle. That really

works. I'm kind of surprised that the organization just said, you have to do this

tournament. Was it mandatory? Or was it optional? Well, I'll tell you this. I know

this tournament because I've been to it. And that's another reason I don't want to

mention it. Okay. And it was just something, oh, well, we do this every year.

That's kind of what we got. And I will tell you this, that the tournament is an

outdoor tournament. So I had done it two times. One time was really great because

the weather was great. Another time it rained. All right? And the temperature went

up and guess what melted and we couldn't play. And it was, it was a mess. And

guess what? We paid for it. You still paid for it. There's no refunds or anything

like that. That I would definitely rethink that tournament. Plus, I've never been in

that situation where you had to agree to stay at that hotel. We've always had the

option of finding our own hotels. They would say, here's a hotel that is sponsored

by this tournament. You can stay there or not or find your And we always found

cheaper options. So, Christie, let me tell you how this is working. I told you

hostage like that. So because I'm seeing this at multiple things now. So what I am

getting now, and again, the listeners will know what I'm talking about. You get an

invitation to the tournament. Okay. And it's through a website and everything is

handled through that website. And here's the thing. It is very convenient. It's like,

here's the hotel, here's the schedule. But what they're doing, and this is how they

hold it over your heads, which I don't like, is they'll say, well, everyone has to

book at the hotel and we will not book you at the tournament until you book the

hotel, all right? And we get messages of not everyone's booked yet, so you're not

able to do it. Or I've seen a very, very popular tournament that everyone here has

been to say that the faster you book your hotel, the better hotel you get. Right?

And again, you know, there's always one straggler right and basically the later you

do it the further away you are from the ring uh i will say that tournament is

very expensive you in my opinion you do get the bang for the buck but it's very

expensive right um you guys can put two and two together on that one all right but

yeah there's a tournament right now i got an angry message of you have not booked

your hotel roomette your team is not your team is not activated yet That's how it's

being done today. Wow. I do not understand how you don't have an opt -out for these

families. Yeah, that's not fair. And the organization should help these families

fundraise. We've always done that, whether it's, you know, sell pizza or cookies or,

you know, crispy cream donuts. We've always done team fundraisers to get to

tournaments that are, you know, out of reach are really expensive for families.

That's what they need to do. I'm also a big believer on perspective, right? I think

that the hockey season moves so fast that, you know, look, there are families out

there that can afford this and it's great and maybe the tournament sucks, but you

kind of just move on and it's fine. I am telling everybody out there, there are

families really struggling, really struggling financially. We're in immense amounts of

debt. And it's a choice. So This isn't a wo -as -me statement. Right. All right.

I'm just saying that like everyone's situation is a little bit differently. To be

pigeonholed into I have to buy this hotel room. Yeah. You're right, Christie. The

organization, if you're going to make your team do something, you should be offering

up some funds for that. Yes, and some do. Mike, I see you nodding up there. I

mean, again, you're involved in the room where it happens a lot of times. Right?

What are your thoughts on these kind of like you have to pay up front? You have

to the hotel we say is is i mean is there any value to that in any way maybe

there is it's it this is i mean i'm literally my blood is boiling right now this

is a good monday morning conversation because i am disgust i'm actually i've actually

disgusted by this conversation it is criminal criminal for organizations to demand

that you stay where you don't want to stay and that And if I'm an organization, do

not book there. You are the consumer. You have more power than anyone. A tournament

can't run without teams. Don't go to the tournament. Do you take the same amount of

resources? The other side is, like, I have a standing rule. I don't help fundraise

for youth hockey tournaments and trips. It's complete BS. You have enough money to

play hockey the program to go to, I'll find, if you need a food drive and you

want to help somebody earn money, you know, clothing drive to help somebody with

their house just burning down, those are fundraisers. I need to go to Toronto for

six days and my kid can't afford the $4 ,000 bill. You know what?

Go, go hit your family up. Don't hit me up on that. Don't do not, I'm not helping

fundraise for ice hockey tournaments in a place you do not need to go to.

None of these tournaments, none. I don't care what level you play. None of them

under the age of 15 mean anything to anybody at any time. They mean nothing,

nothing. And if you talk to a professional that knows how to run tournaments, I

know there's people out there that know how to find the right solution for you, you

can have a thousand times better environment by putting your kids in the right

competitive place. You could still travel. You could still go to hotels. You could

still go to Niagara Falls and Florida and parts of Pennsylvania. You could go to

all these tournament destination places, but do not become a hostage to a pay to

play tournament. It's not it cannot be legal it's criminal and the only reason we're

doing it is because the tournament is is saying you have to do it and then we're

doing it yeah and then we do it and then we and then we and then we and then we

and then we and then we bitch about it so we do it and we say this isn't wrong

but here's my check no no no it's wrong i'm not doing it and i'm not going and

to your point about you know who can afford what nobody nobody could afford it's

this is this is less about money than it is about time and and value and

experience right people people I think these tournaments take advantage of the fact

that hockey parents find a way to make it work for their kids they don't care how

they do it right but they do parents find a way parents will always find a way to

make their child incorporated into the bigger picture of, I can't afford this,

but I'm going to do without to make this work. But it's completely unfair.

It's completely unethical. It's completely against the growth of the game and

development and all the things we talk about every day about what your experiences

in a youth hockey world. And on top of it all, you have no control over who you

play, when you play. Look at all these tournaments that they don't even tell you

when the finals are. So on a Sunday morning, you wake up and you're like, am I

keeping my hotel room? Am I not keeping my hotel room? Am I getting Monday? Am I

not getting Monday? Am I going to work on Monday? Or am I staying here in

Massachusetts on Monday? This is nuts. It is absolutely, like how it's even gotten

to this point is because of the greed and the inability for organizational leaders

to make a stand and say, we are not sending our teams to these programs. And guess

what, guys, if four people, if four organizations said that, guess who can have a

tournament that's not paid to play? Four teams, easily. Because there's going to be

plenty of ice available because nobody's going to be skating there. I know. I just

think you have to, somebody has to step up. I know on my side, the organizations I

work with, I just demand that we don't. No tournaments before Columbus Day weekend,

no pay to place ever. We have the power. We have 30 teams. We have the power.

We could do whatever we want to do. Why are we catering to a group of people that

are skimming off the top, hurting our programs, hurting our families, and then we

have no say in anything the tournament's doing, I think it's, I really think it's

crazy. I don't call me about fundraising.

I have to support fundraising because I can recall there was this one tournament.

It was a great tournament. I'm so glad we did it. And we worked as a team and

all the families paid equally. We didn't have to stay at a certain hotel. that was

always, I've never heard that, that you must stay at this hotel. That's ridiculous.

We're always finding cheaper options. That should be our right to do that. Christie,

it's becoming more commonplace. Someone has figured out a business model here. Mike

said it was skimming off the top 100%. That's why you're 420, what I say it was,

426 to 710. Yeah. For two nights and you're getting a deal.

If you want to go to a tournament in Cape Cod, you just go to Airbnb. You find

yourself a $99 a night hotel. You get free breakfast and you live on the beach.

Your kids are having fun and all their family members. You've got to track around

all these family members. Like this is supposed to be a time for your family and

you've got to drag a kid to a hotel room that you don't want to be at in the

first place. It's crazy. And let me come from the first of neutrality here. We've

actually done that. It's so fun just to get your own place on the beach. You split

the cost with the families. Wonderful memories. Fantastic. I'm going to come through

this neutrality. Yeah, that's criminal. To make families you have to stay here at

this cost. Oh, by the way, you get a free breakfast. I'm going to say. $800. Yeah.

Yeah. Enjoy your scrambled eggs and runny's sausage. I'm going to say this too.

Like, look, to answer the question of the letter, You deserve a choice on where you

stay. And I would not, as an organizational leader, force anybody to play in a

tournament where we have no choice. Okay, without the complete, you know,

agreement of everybody on the team. All right, like, I will give a positive example.

There's one tournament I love that I'll call out. Now, this is a younger kid

tournament. It's called the Mite Beach Bash. And you have to stay in the hotel that

they tell you. The reason why is because the ice rinks in the hotel. All right,

and it makes a lot of sense, and the rates are fine, and it's a carnival disguises

as a hockey tournament, and what I love about what they do for the kids is that

everybody makes a championship game, I'm doing quotations, no matter what, it's a ton

of fun. To me, that one was done right. I was also recently at a tournament,

again, no names. I'll just say it was near a Pennsylvania theme park that steamed

around chocolate. All right, we didn't stay that park there were there were two

rinks potentially there and we got to the park but it was like we really had to

plan it it was late at night and and we had fun fun time at the park but it's

like that was the one that had the ab standing i like what do we do the hockey

was was not fun right and it's like you kind of play through to get to the team

that's equal to you And that's your last game? I want that to be the first game

because I'm trying to develop these kids, right? And I don't want them coming off

the ice. I'm like, when are we getting out of here and going someplace else? I

don't want that as a coach. I want them going, I love that game. Let's go here.

Oh, my God. This is fun. I felt like, you know, when I was a kid, I felt like

we got a little bit more of those. But again, the place of neutrality again is

that I agree with both of you. I think that fundraising is important, but I think

we also have the life lessons that we have to teach the kids. Sure. And so I'm

kind of with both of you. Like if we need to fundraise for the tournament, I'm

okay with that. But I also think if you're going to fundraise for a tournament, you

also have to do some sort of fundraiser for charity during the year just to show

them what that means, right? Because that doesn't happen either. And it's like

something inside me feels a little awkward. Yeah, but What are you fundraising for

for a hockey team? Like, honestly, look, okay, I'm just trying to grab my head

around this. Right. I'm going to a tournament. The whole team is going. Right. The

tournament fee is, let's call it, $20 ,000. That's what it probably is, right?

At the end of the day, 20 grand for a team to go to a tournament about, you

know, hotels, food, everything, every. So we all have to fundraise for the

tournament. Where is the fundraising like where is it that i have to go to another

portion of of outside my life and go to work and go to go to family members and

go sit at the side of the a and p and shaws with a bucket and a bell like why

do i need to do that to raise money for my privileged spoiled kid to go to a

tournament that I have not that that has no bearing on anybody's life getting better

like why am I doing that why are we asking people to fundraise for that is it

because there's a certain portion of a team that can't afford it and we need to

make up the money or is it because we're like oh shit we just we just got to a

tournament that none of us can afford and we better raise another 10 grand like

maybe don't go to the tournament then I don't know. I just think I just find it

very hard to understand how, and we see it all the time and it's a Quebec level,

right? Yeah. That everybody goes, oh, we're going to Quebec. Oh, now what do you

got to do? Oh, we each have to raise $6 ,000. What do you mean raise? What do you

raise $6 ,000? Right. You either go if you can afford it or you don't go if you

can't afford it. I honestly don't get it. Mike, there's, isn't. Is that true to

that, yeah. You know, my girls going to And the girls hockey team, they were what

maybe, she would, Sophia would have been 12 because she switched from the boys team

before they started checking. And there was this great tournament option in Canada.

And they ended up winning the championship, which was fantastic. And we were a

little short of fun. So the girls thought of all these great ways to raise money

to make up the difference so that we could get there and they had a ball i mean

i think they sold crispy cream donuts they they really bonded and it was a great

way for them to say hey we they all agree the girls wanted to go to this

tournament okay you want to go to it you've got to earn it and they really

appreciated being there more and they ended up winning the championship so So

sometimes the kids may surprise you, Mike. It was on them.

If you want to go, then you guys have to resort this amount of money. If you can

raise it, we'll go. And they did. I understand. And a great bonding experience from

them. So much so that I've never seen them like that on the ice before. They were

so because they had a work to get there. It wasn't just handed to them. Right.

If the kids are sitting there selling cookies and baked goods at the side of the

road and they're earning money on their own, aside the street, you know, somewhere,

they're doing something to earn money, right, to go. I understand that part of it.

Listen, I've done a thousand fundraising things. I mean, I do fundraising for high

school teams for 20 years and we went and picked and raked lawns and but it was

it wasn't because we were we were without it was because we wanted to contribute

more like it was always like we want to do more and not just for us but for

another for somebody who actually can't afford to go to a tournament in toronto so

i get it hockey's expensive and i i i just don't understand the whole fundraising

culture around sports because you're because there's no there's nobody's like like you

can't afford it you can't afford it like don't go but if you can't eat then maybe

fundraise around that I don't know we can't get off the subject I just think it's

no no no we're this is part of the subject guys like the whole point of this

episode is to kind of debate it Mike and and I love but I'm just wondering is

this woman who said I can't afford the extra $300 a night is she could she just

go out in funder rates on her own with you know and and you know i don't know

right around selling roses in the in the in the in the in the in the in the

malls to earn money for her kid to get an extra night in the hotel room yeah

listen it's tough i think every family situation is different i think mike you also

bring up a good point so as christie that you know a lot of it is where what is

this money going towards right right if it's going towards a mandatory hotel, that's

one thing. If it's going towards food for the team, that's another. Look, look, I'll

give you an expanded situation here. It's not so much a tournament, but my local

organization does this really fantastic exchange with Finland. So it's like every

other year we go to Finland or they have Finnish players come to us. And we do

massive fundraising for this. But the life experience is well worth it, right?

And traveling to Scandinavia is not cheap. So they fundraise for years, right? And

the kids do this stuff to build up. But again, that's a little more than a

tournament. That's a life experience. I think that, and this is like you said, maybe

I'm in the middle ground here. I think it depends on what you're doing. It depends

on the tournament. I think if you're going to some cash grab, I think it's on the

organization of the family say, you know, we don't really want to do this

tournament. Although if you're going to an experience that everyone's going to love,

and as a team, you want to reduce the cost, I think that's viable too.

Now, Mike, you're also bringing up a bit of a morality clause in this, which is

not unfair of, and you said it, we're like, we're coming from a place. Like, we're

fundraising for hockey when there are people who can't eat. Like, that's, that's

something I think everybody has to gauge on their own. I, I'm on two minds of that

subject, too, right like that's why i said that i think it's important to introduce

uh the hockey players to what christie said that the value of work and earning

something but also that there are people of lesser means that that also deserve to

be fundraised for right that you know go to go help people on thanksgiving get a

dinner get a meal um i think there's a 360 aspect to this i don't think anybody's

right or wrong here i think that these are all really good points that's why we're

having the episode because this is a really contentious space. But I think we all

agree that, Mike, to what you said, you should never be forced into one option, one

place, you know, one scenario. And again, we got to keep in this, keep in mind,

too. I do not expect a family that does not have the funds to just come forward

and say, I don't have the funds, right? That's not going to happen. I would never

want to put a family into that situation unless they want us to know, right? And

then FOMO plays into this, big time FOMO. Like, Mike, and I'm saying your name.

I'm not pointing this at you. It's like, I can't imagine, I mean, it happens. Like,

you're going to have to tell your kid you can't go. We can't afford it. Like,

that's a reality of life sometimes. But no parent wants to do that. Right. So I'm

just, I'm just throwing out like all the different. Yeah, no, I'm probably different

because I said it all the time. Like I, I, like, I'm always like, well, we're not

going to that. Why? Because why would we go to that? What's the point? I mean,

listen, I watched a, you know, everybody will know who he is if you're in my world

in hockey, but I watched a dad, which his two kids go to every tournament for

seven years in a Winnebago, and he'd pull up, he'd plug it at the rank, and he'd

live in the Winnebago all weekend. It saved hundreds of thousands of dollars in

hotel rooms. Now, the other side of this whole thing, like it, he didn't nobody

mandated him to go to a hotel, you know? I think we agree that's wrong right can

we all just agree on that now like any hotel mandates is in it's wrong right it's

wrong and it's somebody if somebody in your organization i know like like you were

saying lee like sometimes the organization makes the decision yeah if the organization

has to make the decision that we're not doing it and and then somebody's got to

say well what is the alternative okay here contact mike manelli he'll give you 17

different alternatives than going to a pay to play to order mike's not kidding about

that listeners by the way this is what it does all right so just yeah and the

other side of that is that and we haven't really discussed it is like how many

tournaments are you going to right like it used to be like it used to be like you

know Columbus day Thanksgiving the holiday tournament and then the end of the year

yeah now it's every weekend every one that I have a problem with that too I have

a showcase it's a showcase at a tournament so like to Chrissy I'll probably a

little more sensitive to it because I just see teams fundraising every single week.

I'm like, why isn't somebody fundraised to go to school on Friday? How about that?

I'm going to shout out my organization. That is ridiculous. I'm going to shout out

my organization to have Hawks real quick because what they do is they've actually

limited us to two tournaments. They can not do any more and they help with it.

They actually help with the funding of it. Right. And it's very clear. Like if you

want to do more, it's on your team to do more. And I don't have a problem with

that right now the other thing i got to bring up to both of you this is probably

more towards uh uh hockey administrators what's wrong with just having a free weekend

what is wrong with having nothing on the schedule for a weekend loved those weekends

why are we not normalizing that right it's like i always feel like oh we have to

fill the time in no you don't you don't it's because the the model's brokenly. It's

because the model of youth hockey, because of USA hockey, because of leagues,

because of organizations, because of conferences, because of all these different

places, the ability to really grow kids and give them the experience of sport is

gone. I was, like, I used to be adamant. Like, if I'm running an organization of

12 -view kids, this It's called 12 viewed as two teams. We'll call it an A team

and a B team. God forbid, there's a B team, right? It's an A team and a B team.

Those teams would have, and this is reality. This isn't pie in the sky. Those teams

would have number zero through 60. That's it. Two teams, boom, boom. Right? On

Saturday, the A team plays. Sunday, the B team plays. Double header, double header.

If five kids on the A team didn't get to play because they, I don't know, for

whatever reason, the coach was shortened the bench, guess what? They're eligible for

the B team because they could play. They're in the same age group. Now, oh, you've

got to get a roster change. This kid has to be, he has to be on this team for a

certain amount of games. You can't make a roster change in the middle of the night.

You need four weeks to make a decision on moving a kid. This is all against kids

developing, getting better, and participating. All of the stuff that we do is going

to the side of eliminating kids having the ability to get better and develop and

more on the side of how much money can we suck out of these suckers to make them

pay all these different fees and programs. And then the kids are stuck. So it's

just - The kids don't know anybody. It's the parents - It's not the kids. I'm not

even blaming the kids. The kids are like, I don't know, I'm just miserable right

now. Well, let's okay well hey listen tomorrow why don't you go play on the other

team same age group you're not a ringer we just want you to play playing will

actually get you better participating in the sport it's actually one of the ways

you'll get better not sitting on the bench earning your spot and then and then

working hard to try to develop you can't develop by watching for four weeks you can

only develop by develop by playing. Right. But our rules and regulations, even

tournaments, right? You go to a tournament. You can't. Like tournament directors will

just say, no, no, sorry, I know you have seven injuries. You can't end anybody to

your roster. It's too late. We can't go up there with six kids. And then what do

we do? And then what do you do? You go up there with six kids to get your doors

blown off. Everybody's miserable. The other team now that just paid $7 ,000 to be

there has to play you and they're like why we play this team this is a way like

like oh because we won the game who gives a crap that was the worst experience I

could have had and I paid to have that experience it's nuts and like we're not

even talking about the low hanging fruit here of of reclassification of a team where

I've been to tournaments where oh yeah it's an A division and there's a triple A

team in the division because they want to win something right right because they're

losing a AAA and they want to win it's horrible so listen we've only got a little

bit of time left i want to flip this i think we are all in agreement of the

problems of there should never be no options we all agree on that and definitely

limit the number of tournaments your team 100 % almost to during this season it's

it's not it doesn't have to every weekend yeah limited like mike said thanksgiving

great you know have a holiday tournament fine end -of -the -year tournament that's it

that's it that's That's it. Or Chrissy, have a tournament the weekend before

Thanksgiving when actually nobody's doing anything in life and then have Thanksgiving

off. Hey, Mike, imagine that. I mean, imagine going home to your Thanksgiving dinner

and say, hey, I don't have to run out of here. And my kid doesn't stink to high

hell because he just came from a game. Like, I'm in, I'm, we're in Thanksgiving.

We're actually with our family. This is what the rest of the world does. Look, I'll

also say this, too. Or maybe that's the world, maybe in the United States, but

somebody doesn't. This is going to be a little more serious for just a half a

second. But I have to say it. Look, everyone on this show has lost someone close

to them or multiple people over the last few years. When they're gone, they're gone.

So if you've got a chance to be with your family, I will tell you right now

that's more important than any hockey tournament or game that you have coming up.

All right. And, you know, look, you don't want to wait to find that out, okay?

So be with your family. If you have a chance to be with your family, I'm assuming

you like your family too, right? Be with your family, all right? Because the other

end of that's not so good. Those are also sexy every tournaments or just people

that hate their family. Maybe they just want to be with somebody else's family.

Well, they should name it that. It's the I hate my family hockey tournament. Then

at least you know, at least when you know

you're there, you're around a lot of people that don't want to be home. We're

dealing with a lot of suppressed anger at this tournament. Okay, I do want to go

into some solutions now. All right, like, like, at least like in this. I actually

have some crazy ideas. I'm going to put them out there for free. Hopefully somebody

can run with them. All right. But the first solution is the one we said. Just say

no. Just say no. We're not doing it. Mike is 100 % correct. Christie, you are too.

I just think it's okay to say we can't afford this. We're not doing right we don't

need to do it um i also think we just need to rethink tournaments right uh or

even rethink traveling for hockey right um i i would i've had two ideas i'd love

your thoughts on audience you tell me your thoughts as well first one is i think

it's a misconception that you have to go and play games for a championship i think

that that is you know a traditional tournament i would love to go to a great

location to have great hockey coaches do some clinics, maybe some teaching.

Like I'd love to go to Niagara Falls and just have three great skill sessions and

maybe a scrimmage, right? And then part of that tournament's tournaments, part of

that trip is we get to go see Niagara Falls. I'm just giving that as an example.

You can pick any place you want around the world or the country of you get this

great exposure to this area you've never been You're going to develop and you're

going to play a scrimmits, so you will get a game. That's one idea. Another idea I

had a while ago, I think I'm putting this out there. Mike, I really want your

thoughts on this. We go to these tournaments as teams, and I do understand it. You

want to play with your team. I wish someone would launch a tournament in which you

show up as a team, but there's an evaluation, and they split everyone up into

different teams. Whatever, red, gold, brown, green. I don't care. And now you've got

an even mix. You get different coaches coaching you, or the coaches that come have

to coach different teams. Everyone's learning something. You've got competitive balance,

right? And then, you know, you're competing at the end, you come back together. All

right. I know it's a far -fetched idea because people go, no, if I'm going, I want

to play with my team. I'm talking about the personal development of a human being

now. It is so important you are a exposed to other coaches, other players, other

situations, other positions, other locations. I think, and then my other idea with

this is me is that you do more classroom -based things. Like maybe there's a mental

health aspect to this of what it's like to face adversity with other people, right?

No one's ever done this. I'm called crazy sometimes when I bring it up, right? I

think that would be a fantastic event for my kids and me as a If I get a brand

new team that I got to learn how to coach it overnight, right? Provide the

education. I think that would be real fun. Again, that's just me. I know there's a

lot of people who go, no, if we're going, I want to be with family that I'm at,

you know, I'm like, I get it. I get it. I just think that this is an alternative

to create really even match games and a really great opportunity for your kids to

learn and play with different people, right? Because that, I'll tell you right now,

they'll learn faster at that. They'll learn more hockey and they'll learn faster

faster that situation than they will. They just go with their team and destroy

everybody the whole week and get a nice $12 medal or trophy, right, that's going to

sit on your mantle. I'd love your thoughts on that, guys. Yeah, it's a fun option.

Although I've got to tell you, my kids have had fabulous experiences going as a

team. Sure. Having success. And the trophy, still in the trophy case today,

which is pretty cool. they walk by as adults now and they look, there's the trophy

that we won. Christie, I should say, I'm not saying this is a replacement. Yeah. I'm

just saying it's a different option. It sounds like a fun option. I do agree with

one of the six tournament weekends that you're going to. Well, you know what I'm

saying. I think this is one or three. Because then you get both. It's a lot of

fun for the kids. Yeah. So, so contact me. I will give you the formula for the

same amount of money you'll pay in Marl next weekend, same amount, but less. I will

send you to Norway. You'll have four days of ionized training. You'll have a hotel,

food, transportation, fun, adventure, sightseeing.

You'll be back on Monday,

probably tired, but you'll have the best thing. You'll spend less money. The same

formula, Lee, I do it all the time with teams, right? We call it like training

camp weekends. If you want competition, if you want development, if you want team

bonding, if you want family bonding, if you want parents to work together, there are

many, many alternatives than going on it to a tournament or showcase that you have

zero control over and zero say in and zero ability because really because i hear

all the time oh we're going to tournament for team bonding your kids don't see each

other this kid goes to the hotel room that parent goes to that dinner that parent

goes here that's all it doesn't happen it happens very very very small and as the

kids get a holder you probably see it less and less because they're like holy crap

i got to go with this table of this guy four of those guys are drinking like

you'd never seeing anybody drink before. And then these guys don't drink at all. And

I got a family here. This is not bonding of teams. This is just, I don't know,

one of the guys I work with called parental entertainment. That's all it is. So if

you really want to build a bond with your kids, you want to save money, you want

to build real life things into your programming. Like I even offer a program right

now. You come to my place. You stay in a hotel for the weekend. You do team

building, team bonding, a hockey IQ, three on ice sessions, you get out of it and

you didn't, you spent one third of the money you would have spent going to any

tournament in the United States. Mike, I'm going to tell you what's about to happen

here. The email is team at our kids playhockey .com. Mike, you better put together a

little packet here. It's not even, it's done already. It's like what I'm saying is

you can't, we all are a bunch of sheep and we're like, oh, tournament okay, book

to pay to stay, and then get in your car. What I'm trying to stay is the last

time we offer the audience something like this, I got 4 ,000 emails. So be ready

because I'm going to be forwarding you emails. It's easy. I think you're right. And

I think that, again, that's another point. Maybe we should make an out of kids play

hockey tournament schedule or something like that. There we go. There we go. You get

the choice of two hotels for $800 a week. We got to say in my hotel.

That's the only caveat of this whole thing. Maybe we need to make a hotel. Maybe

we need to make the... Just stop. I do have to give out a shout out to some of

the tournaments that we have been to that have been wonderful, like Lake Placid.

Yeah, of course. I remember my son had the best time. They were 12 years old. They

bonded. It was fantastic because Lake Plac is such a beautiful,

serene place. It is. We were comfortable with the boys going out of their own for

the first time. Like, we can go out as a group and go get ice cream. And your

parents are going to be over our shoulders, making sure that we're behaving

ourselves. But we trusted them. They had the best time we went, you know, we saw

all the venues that were part of the Olympics. And that was a fantastic memorable

experience. The kids still talk about it today. Yeah. So there are some good. Yeah,

but that's a known, but, Chris, to your point, that's a known entity. That's like

when you go there, you're not going for the my hockey rankings, you know, uh,

development. You're going there for that exact experience. Again, and I think they're

greedy too. I think they're over. I think they're getting more and more overpriced.

I do. I think they take advantage of, of the fact that people want to go there.

But they, you know, again, at all, but at least it's known. We're going in knowing

what you're getting and why you're getting it. And I think they do a good job of

making you feel like you're part of that weekend. That's where I was going to go

to. I want to make sure we say it. I hope no one's ticking away from this episode

that tournaments are evil. Like that's not what we're saying. We're saying some of

them are. All right. Mike has a higher thought of that. But look, like let's just

talk about real quick. Canam is what we're talking about. Everybody knows that

tournament exist. It is extremely expensive, probably a little too expensive, but, and

I said this earlier, you do get a lot. You get a lot at that tournament and you

know what you're getting. I will also say this too, because I don't think a lot of

people know this. Lake Placid has multiple tournaments. Can Am is just one of them.

I think we don't look enough at that. I'm not shooting down Can Am, but there's

other tournaments at Lake Placid that are more economical, right, that you can look

at. But that, to me, like Placid is an experience. You just said that. And it's

awesome. It's awesome. It is awesome. I mean, go there in January. It's awesome. But

again, just be aware of if that's your, if that's the one you're going to and it's

the seventh one, and that's the one, like, that's the what I choose. If you're

going to go to three, go to that one. Like, don't go to the meaningless one in

whatever. I won't say where, but you know, that that means nothing to your kids.

Yeah. Well, look, in closing, I'll say this. There's a lot of tournaments. There's a

lot of cash grabbing at these tournaments. So don't be fooled. All right. Like,

again, I think, you know, Mike, I think you said it. It's okay to say no. And

Christie, I think you said it too. Do some research and find a really great

tournament. Yeah. Okay. You know, tournaments that offer the kids skill development

would be great. They're skill tournaments. And sometimes they make it so that the

kids aren't on the ice 24 -7 in the tournament mode. But they take a break,

say, okay, we're going to have some fun with the kids, do some other options. Yeah,

I just think if you're going somewhere, if you go to a tournament, you guys tell

me if you agree with this. And all you've done is play hockey and be to the

hotel. and you have not done anything else in that area. Or if there was nothing

to do in that area. Right. That might not have been a great choice by the

organization or the team. All right. Well, that's what it is. It's our kids play

hockey. That our kids love to travel. Our kids love to stay in hotel rooms. Our

kids love to eat crappy breakfasts. Don't crap on our name, Mike. It's a good

podcast. It's our kids play hockey. That's the whole idea, right? It's play. Go

play. Not sit in a hotel room for seven hours between games. There you go. Good

pivot. That to me is not playing. And again, going back to Lake Placid, there's an

outdoor rink. There's an outdoor skiing. You're not going to be in the hotel. You

go to do the bog and run and see. Right. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's

unbelievable. It's an Olympic Museum. There's a lot to do there. Oh, so much. That's

a great one. So, all right. Well, listen, I hope we've brought some light to this.

I said it at the beginning. This is going to be a commiseration episode where where

we've discussed a lot. But listen, we want to hear from you on this. There's a lot

of thoughts. Team at our kids play hockey .com. Let us know what you're thinking. We

can definitely do a redux of this episode. Or if you want the Mike Bonelli super

duper tournament thoughtful Monday morning Mike's schedule. Just call me up.

We will get that to you. Ladies and gentlemen, this is what Mike does. We don't

talk enough about our businesses on here. That is what he does. He's your guy. He

is your coffee. All right. But yeah, any final thoughts before I close this out?

It's a great discussion. That's the whole point of the show. Just a couple of deep

breaths, Mike, you know? Monday morning, Mike. Get it out.

I'm literally looking at a text message for a fundraiser right now. Steve is coming

out of his year. It's like, you're driving around a Ranger over at your beach

house. I said, you need a fundraiser? Come on. Give me a break. I drive a key. I

drive a key. All right, gang. Christie, any final thoughts? You just have taken to

take the press. So fun. Always. All right. That's going to do it for this edition

of Our Kids. Go to Tournaments. For Mike Bonelli, Christie Casciano-Burns. I'm Lee

Elias. Remember, have fun out there. If you have any thoughts, again, Team and Our

Kids Playhockey .com. Or there's a link in the description. If you tap on that, you

can send us a message, make sure you include your name where you're from. Any

thoughts you have? Any thoughts you have, episode ideas, thoughts on this episode,

thoughts on future episodes, we're here for you. That's going to do it, everybody.

Have a great day. Enjoy your hockey. We'll see you on the next. Our Kids Play

Hockey. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like

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Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.