Dec. 16, 2023

Turning Youth Hockey Tournaments into Unforgettable Experiences with Showdown Hockey Tournaments

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Season 1 Our Kids Play Hockey

With a combined experience of 30 years in the industry, Brian and Whitney Harrington join the show to give an insider's look into the world of organizing hockey tournaments, straight from the trenches. The Harringtons are experts in creating an unforgettable tournament experience that transcends beyond just winning games. They share tips on how to maximize your tournament travels and stays, and shed light on unique showdown hockey tournaments events like their Olympic skills competition and the iconic crab hat giveaway.

Peel back the layers of what makes a tournament unforgettable. Discover the importance of diverse matchups and competitive division, ensuring every team has a fair shot at victory. Learn how team bonding and camaraderie can be fostered not only through the games but through traditions like pen exchanges. Navigate through tournament management challenges, from effective communication to handling last minute changes. Hear how the Harringtons tackle these hurdles, demonstrating the importance of clear communication, commitment, and a hunger to overcome adversity.

Finally, delve into strategies to improve your youth hockey tournament experience. We discuss the shift in focus from solely winning to creating positive, memorable experiences for players. Explore the evolution of tournaments from AAA to tier two, the challenges of youth hockey, and the benefits of a fair, well-rounded tournament experience. We guarantee this episode will provide invaluable wisdom for anyone involved in hockey tournaments, from coaches to managers, to parents. With the Harringtons' insights, you'll be ready to take on your next hockey tournament with confidence.

Text The Our Kids Play Hockey Team!

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00:52 - Insights and Tips on Hockey Tournaments

05:18 - Competitive Division Importance and Diverse Matchups

16:42 - Team Bonding in Tournaments

25:51 - Tournament Communication and Scheduling Challenges

31:29 - Managing Tournaments

42:45 - Challenges and Controversies at Tournaments

50:03 - Youth Hockey Tournament Strategy and Experience

55:59 - Keys to a Successful Tournament Experience

01:06:30 - Insight Into Hockey Tournaments

WEBVTT

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Tournaments, tournaments, tournaments.

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You know, whenever you're listening to this episode there's probably a tournament coming up, but we're recording it right towards the end of the year, which means a lot of tournaments are coming up.

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So we decided to bring on some tournament experts Brian and Whitney Harrington, who have been in this industry for 30 years.

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Go over all the good things, you should be looking for all the bad things, all the red flags.

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There's no way you walk away from this episode as a coach, a manager or even a player or a parent not learning something about tournaments.

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That's going to make the experience better.

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So enjoy this episode of Our Kids Play Hockey with Showdown Hockey, Tournaments and always yeah, remember this, we say this every episode hockeywrapperoncom code OKPH add checkout get you 20% off your entire purchase and you get to support us and this show.

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You can get anything from Our Kids Play Hockey's book when Hockey Stops that Christy Cashiano Burns and I wrote.

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A lot of solutions for hockey families over at hockeywrapperoncom and a discount for you when you use OKPH add checkout.

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I'm doing my best smooth radio voice while I'm doing this ad.

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I hope it's working.

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If it didn't work, no worries, let's get into the episode right now with showdown hockey tournaments on Our Kids Play Hockey.

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Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey.

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I'm Lee Elias, along with my faithful co-host, Mike Bonnelli, and it's the time of year where tournaments seem to come every weekend, depending on what team you're on.

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So we decided to bring in two people with an immense amount of tournament experience to give us some advice on how to attack the travel, the stays and, of course, the hockey being played.

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Those two experts are Brian and Whitney Harrington, the dynamic duo behind showdown hockey tournaments, who have been bringing fun and competition together in Nashville, Tennessee and the Washington DC area for over 30 years.

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Unlike some of the largest tournament organizers, these two have kept showdown tournaments a family run business for that time period and have introduced some pretty unique events with their tournaments, such as the showdown Olympic skills competition and the elusive but much sought after tournament crab hat.

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We'll talk about those on the episode today.

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For those of you who have been to the tournaments, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

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The two were recently featured in this month's USA Hockey Magazine in the article by our very own Kristy Casciano Burns.

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Make sure to grab that and read it when you can.

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Brian and Whitney, welcome to Our Kids Play Hockey.

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Thank you, Thanks for having us.

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No, actually I should be thanking you for coming on because in the madness that is the fall into winter, into springtime period, we're all looking ahead on our calendars to what eight hour, potentially five hour or longer journey we have to take to get our kids to these tournaments.

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So let's start with the basics.

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Let's introduce you to the audience.

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What made you get into the tournament industry and why have you stayed?

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Well, it started back in 1972.

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My parents got involved with skating, it evolved to hockey and then, shortly thereafter, the rink manager, willie Marshall, who's played in the AHL for 20 seasons, him and my father partnered up and they decided to do Can-Am hockey in North Tonawanda, new York.

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So we go back all the way to 1972.

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Yeah, well, that predates me.

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I'm not going to speak for Mike, but one question I want to ask right off the bat.

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Guys, is this Everybody listening?

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We're going to dive into a lot of tips and tricks today to kind of prepare you, but I think it's important that we begin kind of the episode of that portion with how hard is it to run a tournament, because I think when we get there, parents and kids, we're expecting something.

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But I don't think a lot of people know how much goes into the back end of obviously just reserving ice time, getting everybody there, finding people to show up, making sure everybody's happy and you can't keep everybody happy no matter what you do.

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So how hard is it to run a hockey tournament?

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It's pretty challenging, but we like to say it's like Disney World.

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We create the magic for you to come and have great time and there's all the behind the scenes secret stuff, but we joke about it.

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We should start a podcast when tournaments, nafus and all the things that happen and go into it, because it is pretty entertaining when we especially when you look back on 30 years of whatever it is.

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But I think the part that we spend the most time on is matching the teams.

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That's the most important part.

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For you to come and have a good time is to be in a competitive division.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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I love hearing you say that, because I have been to tournaments where that's not the case.

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Or you hear things like oh, we're just going to move you up to the next division, it makes more sense and it'll fit, and you end up going 0 and 3, 0 and 4, getting 20 gold.

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That's just not fun for anybody.

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I think also and I know Michael want to talk about this too the matchups, right.

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I think one of the best parts of tournaments is playing against teams you haven't played before.

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Nothing frustrates me more as a coach, or even just as a parent, when I travel five hours and I'm playing a team from 20 minutes down the road.

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So does that go into the planning at all?

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Or do you actually try and diversify the teams that you're selecting?

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We definitely try to diversify.

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So if we have teams that come from the same area, same league, your regular games, we try not to match you up.

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But when there's a crossover, if you're in first and the other teams in fourth place and you end up playing each other, that's where we tell the teams that you might see that team from your league.

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But we definitely try we will tell teams.

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Actually, in Nashville we get a lot of 8U teams from Missouri and we had to cut it off because we had too many and we felt like, hey, you don't want to come down to Nashville just to play teams you play already.

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So there's definitely a balance in the decisions of the teams that we select.

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Yeah, that's.

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We're going to go over some red flags later on.

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I think that's a big red flag is when you get the tournament schedule and it's we just played these teams right.

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Mike, I know that's a primary frustration of yours.

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Do you want to comment on that a little bit?

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Yeah, no, it's great that you're you know you have to think ahead a little bit, but it's also the responsibility of the, the folks putting themselves in these tournaments, right, they know, like, they know the other teams going in and you know I'm sure you guys, you know, do a good job of posting that as well.

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You know say, hey, listen, you have, you know, 10 teams from Missouri coming in and you're not going to play anybody else but the teams in your local district.

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So I think there does mean I'll complain about it a lot as a customer on my end.

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But it's also our responsibility as coaches and managers.

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And in our own region we know, you know, other teams are going to these tournaments, right.

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So if you choose to go to the same tournament that the you know seven other teams in your league are going to, you'd probably get out of, like you said, you can't do anything about the matchups.

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You know, once you get past that that first round, right, you know, I'm sure you guys try to do a good job, like I know.

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The one horror story I heard just recently was two teams leaving school on a Wednesday to fly down to Florida to play in a tournament where they played the team next to them and the next town over.

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They played already five times on the Thursday morning of the tournament, right, so this is to me that's just egregiously an issue, you know on everybody's part, but again it's.

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This is, though these tournaments are things where you have to just you get into them and and, and you know, based off your article and kind of who you guys are, a lot of it's just not even based on the ice.

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Experience is based off the location and the ability to make like a great experience of coming to these things, you know, outside of the, the ice product.

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Yep, and I would say we see the most of those similar league matchups because we go from double a all the way down to house select and house elect.

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you're going to pull from mostly the surrounding area but the teams that come are excited because we're going to play him in a tournament setting versus you know, we but the thing, but they already know that one going into it and especially at the A and double A level, there's a good mix and I feel like we've been pretty lucky with there's always a team we call it's a turn occasion who's planning to do a tournament vacation.

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So they're traveling from, you know, Nevada or California or Arizona, and that mixes in.

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It makes it more challenging to place them, but it is a lot of fun for all those other teams be like we're playing a team from wherever, yeah, and I think when yeah, and I think when the other challenge too is that you know and I guess it probably helps with my hockey rankings a little bit now and the internet and having access to these, these players, these team schedules and who they, and they're like opponents.

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But you know, the frustrating thing is you could people signing it for a tournament and trying to, you know, dumb down their team so they could win the tournament, and it just doesn't make that fun for anybody.

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I mean, you know, going in and winning a trophy, you know, and you beat every team by 10 goals doesn't help, you, doesn't help the players, probably nobody makes out from that, but it is a very challenging piece, right, it's like, well, you know, in an ideal world we'd all want to be, you know, two, two and one going into Sunday and every game was decided by a goal and four overtime games, and but you know just, it's the nature of the beast of going out there and playing other teams.

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And again, if you went into it to your point that it's a tournament vacation, you know, really, go in, and I think for the parents that listened to our show, you know, go in with the, with the understanding of what is your goal from the tournament?

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It's not.

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It's not a you know.

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It's not a tournament you earned by winning a bunch of games and got into.

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It's a tournament you chose to go to, and how are you going to make the best of that experience?

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Exactly, that's why we have fun in capital letters.

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The competition and fun right Well matched.

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Yeah, the problem is the competition sometimes beats the fun out of it, right?

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So I think it is difficult.

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It's about the experience.

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Hockey is part of it, but there's so much more that goes into it besides just the games that you're playing.

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That's why we do those extra events at our tournaments too, to just give the teams a different opportunity.

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So back in the day, if you played hockey, you used to go out of town and you used to bill it with somebody, stay with another team's family.

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That kind of went away.

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So that is one of the reasons why we do these extra events is to get teams in a different setting, outside of a game, where they're talking to each other on the ice, shaking hands, having a little bit of fun.

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It's not as competitive, but it's a little lighter than playing in a game no referees.

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Yeah, brian, let's dive in on those now.

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I don't mind going forward, because you do do some unique things at your tournaments and I think that you're making a really great point.

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When I go to my dad's house and there's like a trophy room there that he created and there's a lot, I've been very fortunate.

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There's a lot of tournament trophies, right, and what's funny is when I think back now, you know, 30 years, 25 years later, I can't remember any, almost any of the games from any of those trophies.

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I mean, I'm glad that we won, but that's not what I remember now as an adult.

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I remember the experience.

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I remember some of the extra things that we did.

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I remember spending time with my teammates, I remember aspects of the destination.

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I rarely remember any of the games and I'm pretty sure I played a role in the team succeeding right.

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So it just kind of shows you what stays with you.

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You know what else I remember too.

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Sometimes it's the negative things.

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Is the crazy hockey parent or the dad that was screaming over the glass at the ref?

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Absolutely, you know.

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So the things you end up remembering from these tournaments.

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And don't get me wrong, man, if you win a game and over time of the championship.

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You're probably going to remember that, all right, but remember the experience, and I love that what you both have done is included, some of those extra experiences.

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So let's talk about that, the Olympic thing that you do, and and how you've added that in how the kids look forward to those things.

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Yeah, why don't you, Whitney?

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You'll give it a shot, because she I was talking to.

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Whitney you tell us about.

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I'm just kidding, I'm the mastermind.

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So anybody who who doesn't like the skills of that mastermind.

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To be fair, I haven't heard anyone say that one time, but yeah, but well, it started with Brian's father when he so he ran the first few tournaments before he 1991 and 92.

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And they had a shootout.

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So that was the extra thing, and sometimes the shootout would go for hours, hours.

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It'd be 11 o'clock at night and these little kids are still shooting on.

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So then we started to hear from the parents about the poor goalie of the, you know.

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But it was all this fun and they got this cool plaque and it was all exciting.

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Until that was the problem.

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And the other one was there has to be a way to end it in a timely fashion for the sake of the kids and the and having some more fun.

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And you're in that setting.

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You're picking out the best.

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The coach is going to pick the best player and the best goalie, and that's not what we were trying to accomplish.

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So so then I said, ok, let's figure out a way to include all the kids and get them all on the ice from every team in the division at the same time, so they'll be up to have.

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We ever had eight teams on the same time.

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Yeah, we've had up to, I think, 12.

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Sometimes we bring in two divisions.

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Well, you know, six teams in each division.

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They're all on the ice together, but they do.

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Yeah, and they do a relay race where it includes nine skaters, the goalie and a coach.

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It's a highlight because everybody loves to your coach, skate the obstacle course and come back and do that, and then then we have its section like like a decathlon.

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There's like five or six different events going on at the same time on the ice and the whole point of it was so that you can't calculate we won that, we won that, we won that, we won that, because it's not about what you won.

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It's about every kid doing some fun stuff.

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So they're shooting and skating and hardest shot and how many shots.

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And then there is a mini shootout that ends after the round and everybody, yeah, but then at the end of that is also where we do our participation part, where the crab hat comes in, or the cowboy hat, or a red, white and blue hat for our capital, my arcana theme.

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So we just, you know.

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So that way everybody's getting something.

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You get medals during the Olympics and as well as the games, but it's something that's totally different.

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There's our cowboy hat.

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There's the cowboy hat.

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These are the things that everybody talks about from your tournaments is these?

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They do and they come the teams that come multiple years still want the same straw.

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Yeah, we're going to switch up a few times and people are like where's the hat?

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Yeah, we just want to.

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We don't want to tell where's the hat.

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So yeah.

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How dare you being fun to hockey tournaments, guys, it's supposed to be a serious matter where you're supposed to go to the championship.

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No, I look, I love that you've done this.

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The other thing I love about it, too is and I'll be very upfront about this and follow me here I'm not a big fan of participation trophies.

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All right, I'm a believer.

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As a coach, you know there's there's winners in tournaments.

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Now you can do the Olympic style thing of gold, gold, silver, bronze.

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I've never had a problem with that, but I love that you've kind of spun the participation aspect of this into something fun.

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If no, if you're coming here, you will be rewarded for being here, because hockey is supposed to be fun and we have these wonderful gifts that we're going to share with you for participating in our tournament.

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That, to me, is brilliant because and I think I think more tournaments should rethink this Because, again, I don't I don't think every kid should get a trophy when it comes to the actual tournament itself, right, I think that that's reserved for for winning or runner up, if you want, but I think the idea of celebrating that we're here together to have fun is is a brilliant thing, and I really commend you for that.

00:15:58.307 --> 00:15:59.208
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

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It makes great team pictures, you know, because there's not the trophy, but the whole team is wearing their hats and doing their thing.

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And the other part of it is the way we got to.

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The giving the giveaway out during this was when you've got a 14 division and you've awarded especially eight, you or six, you, you know three sets of models and there's one they're like well, what do we get?

00:16:21.245 --> 00:16:23.854
Right, so it's like it fills that gap.

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It fills the gap and makes everybody happy.

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It's nice with something that's the hat.

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I think we can make the argument that in eight you it's a little different than you know 10 you, 12, you, so forth and so on.

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In the sense of eight you is very much.

00:16:37.318 --> 00:16:55.645
Let's have fun playing hockey and love the game, right, and I do tell my eight you team you know we don't keep scoring our regular season games and when you get to a tournament they do keep score, and I talk about the aspect of competition, right and that, and that there is sometimes a winner and a loser, but it's about your work ethic.

00:16:55.645 --> 00:16:57.282
Again, these are eight and under kids.

00:16:57.282 --> 00:16:59.120
These are the lessons we try and teach them, right.

00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:10.500
So I just love that you figured out a way to do that, because I think that that, especially other tournaments, that there's too many of them are cash grabs and they don't care and it's just like thanks for being here.

00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:12.823
We needed another team, thanks for your dues.

00:17:12.823 --> 00:17:14.559
You know what I mean.

00:17:16.737 --> 00:17:29.125
We do the effort, the effort you put in to the gift for the participation just shows you know kind of, you know really where you value your tournament, right, and it's not a, it's not a, it's not a.

00:17:29.125 --> 00:17:50.034
Hey, you know, anybody listen, anybody could rent a bunch of ice and throw a bunch of teams out there and, and you know, hopefully some scorekeeper show up and maybe somebody comes in a bag of Pox, but I think it's just like what are we doing to make the experience better and then have those kids leave there, and I personally I think it's a brilliant marketing piece, right, those kids go back into their communities and they have these hats that everybody's like where the hell did you get these hats from?

00:17:50.034 --> 00:17:58.222
You know go, you're in a tournament in Nashville and you know our team won this and we, you know, nobody sees a trophy, nobody sees a medal, those things are gone.

00:17:58.222 --> 00:18:03.403
I mean, those things just don't mean to have to remember that they don't they don't get out of the bottom of the car half the time, right?

00:18:03.403 --> 00:18:05.643
Or they're sticking their hockey bag for the rest of their life.

00:18:05.643 --> 00:18:06.818
But I think it's, but it is.

00:18:06.818 --> 00:18:07.402
It is great.

00:18:07.402 --> 00:18:09.281
Me, I personally love that kind of stuff.

00:18:09.281 --> 00:18:11.122
I love the fact that a player can leave.

00:18:11.122 --> 00:18:19.444
It's the reason why, when you go to the Quebec tournaments, that they that they do the pen exchange right, Because there's a, there's meaning behind it and people anticipate.

00:18:19.444 --> 00:18:25.134
I mean, imagine if you went up to Quebec and they said oh, by the way, nobody's giving, nobody's doing pens, People would freak out.

00:18:25.355 --> 00:18:26.058
They think it would be.

00:18:26.118 --> 00:18:28.449
I mean, I'm sure the same same reason.

00:18:28.449 --> 00:18:32.601
If you stopped doing hats one year, somebody be like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:18:32.601 --> 00:18:33.461
What happened here?

00:18:33.461 --> 00:18:34.704
You know, we came here because of this.

00:18:34.724 --> 00:18:35.866
We came for the hat yeah.

00:18:36.954 --> 00:18:42.186
We did have a supply shortage with the hats and they had bands but they had crap whatever.

00:18:42.186 --> 00:18:43.778
But to the pen exchange.

00:18:43.778 --> 00:18:45.624
We do run a pen exchange as well.

00:18:45.624 --> 00:18:56.301
It's not as big as in Quebec but in our Nashville tournament about 70 to 80% of the teams all trade pens with each other from their league, but in the DC area.

00:18:56.301 --> 00:19:00.045
It's still on the edge, but it's open to everybody and it's something that we pride ourselves in.

00:19:00.045 --> 00:19:03.922
That goes back to Brian's experience of growing up in New Hockey and trading.

00:19:03.942 --> 00:19:10.528
Yeah, having the jacket full of pens, your hats full of pens, you walk up to somebody say, hey, I like your pen, let's trade.

00:19:10.528 --> 00:19:13.194
You know it's the experience, I love it.

00:19:13.796 --> 00:19:18.067
I think for new parents too, for people that are from the game and you know and can.

00:19:18.067 --> 00:19:25.961
It's the same reason why people collect Pucks and it's just like you know, it's just a fun thing to do and gets the conversations going, gets people meeting each other.

00:19:25.961 --> 00:19:32.740
You know, when they're just walking aimlessly past each other and say, look at the schedule, say okay, when's when's team A playing what locker room?

00:19:32.740 --> 00:19:35.006
Let me get in, let me get out, like there's so much other.

00:19:35.006 --> 00:19:46.363
It sounds like to me I've never been to one of your tournaments, but it sounds like to me to just so much more energy and interaction going on between the teams other than I'm here to kick your butt and get out of here with a win.

00:19:47.635 --> 00:19:55.961
And I would say this really this mentality stems back from at least my childhood and I would say Whitney's as well.

00:19:55.961 --> 00:20:00.376
Our experiences, when you know, a few years I played for my father.

00:20:00.376 --> 00:20:04.490
He was my coach, but I saw him coach many teams that I was not on.

00:20:04.490 --> 00:20:11.002
90% of the teams he coach, I was not on, and they went to tournaments.

00:20:11.002 --> 00:20:15.358
They started off the year a fishing trip, but they played hockey too.

00:20:15.358 --> 00:20:23.213
So they would go up to Canada, stay at a cabin and fish all day and then go play hockey.

00:20:23.213 --> 00:20:34.750
In all his trips that he would do you can go swimming, let's go skiing, let's go have fun, Then we'll play hockey and if we win, we win, if we lose, we lose.

00:20:34.750 --> 00:20:38.029
But it wasn't focused on we got to go to that tournament and win.

00:20:38.029 --> 00:20:56.813
It was focused on the experience of having a good time with the families and the kids, with other things to do other than play the games, and I think that's a little bit lost today out there in the hockey world is you know, hey, but we're traveling to Nashville, Tennessee, and let's have the best experience in time.

00:20:56.813 --> 00:20:59.353
Let's make the most of it rather than just focus on.

00:20:59.353 --> 00:21:05.507
We got four games to play and we got to be well rested in, Because the kids actually come out and play much harder for you.

00:21:05.507 --> 00:21:13.492
When you've let them, they'll give you that extra mile when you've let them, you know, unleash the reins a little bit.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:14.804
Especially if they have fun.

00:21:14.804 --> 00:21:25.671
Yeah, I mean Lee can speak to this better than I can, but I mean I think that's that's the reason why, you know, the byproduct is they probably won a lot of tournaments because they they there's a lot of bonding going on there.

00:21:25.671 --> 00:21:25.941
It's like.

00:21:25.941 --> 00:21:30.172
So, like you know, most people would look at them like, oh my God, this guy's not serious, he's got kids fishing.

00:21:30.172 --> 00:21:31.800
This is a hockey tournament, like.

00:21:31.800 --> 00:21:37.705
These kids are just out there having fun and goofing off and, you know, getting to know each other and it's too light.

00:21:37.705 --> 00:21:44.189
And all of a sudden you say, well, they won one game and now they're closer, and now they won another game and now they're even closer and they're having more fun.

00:21:44.189 --> 00:21:58.471
And it just, it's one of those things where it's the, the byproduct of the, the allowing them to have that fun and then Lee could talk about this from a team building perspective is like that is where the bond, that the bond is what builds the wins.

00:21:58.471 --> 00:22:00.569
And I think you know to your point.

00:22:00.569 --> 00:22:07.539
You know, if you get a chance, if you go to one of your tournaments and the only goal was for team bonding, then they've accomplished.

00:22:07.539 --> 00:22:09.125
You know you can accomplish that pretty easily.

00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:11.887
Well, I can absolutely speak to that too, mike.

00:22:11.887 --> 00:22:23.884
And look, it goes back to the pins we were just talking about, like in the trading of pins and talking to somebody from another place that you don't know about, and just even having that five minute conversation, we did a whole episode about the importance of communication recently.

00:22:23.884 --> 00:22:29.592
Right For young kids to meet kids from other places with accents, even other countries in some.

00:22:29.592 --> 00:22:34.119
In some places it's so important to see that there's another world out there.

00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:37.516
I mean, I remember when I was a kid, mike, I went to a tournament.

00:22:37.516 --> 00:22:42.042
I met a kid from Brampton, ontario, and I had never met anybody from Canada before and you know, it's like.

00:22:42.042 --> 00:22:51.268
You know, it's a different world up there for them, and I was from the city and it was a totally great conversation and perspective that I needed to have at a young age or as a teenager.

00:22:51.268 --> 00:22:54.654
Now, from a team bonding standpoint, I'm a big believer.

00:22:54.654 --> 00:23:03.387
I think I wish teams would all go on road trips early in the season just to get away from everything and the pressures and the seriousness of the season.

00:23:03.387 --> 00:23:15.468
These trips are opportunities for you, as Mike said, to bond as parents, as players, as coaches, the players, as players, the players, but it's all about the environment that's created.

00:23:15.468 --> 00:23:22.765
If you create a pressure cooker environment for really anybody 18 down, I mean, you're going to get the results of a pressure cooker.

00:23:22.765 --> 00:23:30.567
It's going to be stressful, it's going to be hard and you're putting all of your onus on winning the tournament which I'm not saying there shouldn't be onus on that, all right.

00:23:30.567 --> 00:23:32.960
But if that's your only thing you're going to, you're going to be miserable.

00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:35.548
And again, look, mike and I have seen this tournament in Boston.

00:23:35.548 --> 00:23:39.950
I won't mention it, but you go to Boston, you don't get to see Boston.

00:23:39.950 --> 00:23:41.113
It's a high level tournament.

00:23:41.113 --> 00:23:45.190
And then you have to pay, even as a parent, to get in to watch the games.

00:23:45.190 --> 00:23:48.788
And the kids are all told there's people watching, there's scouts watching.

00:23:48.788 --> 00:23:51.086
What kind of environment are you in?

00:23:51.086 --> 00:24:03.410
Right, you know, excuse me, like I just think that I understand the need for showcase tournaments at the higher teenage levels to show talent.

00:24:03.410 --> 00:24:08.392
I don't understand why we have to sacrifice fun in those environments.

00:24:08.392 --> 00:24:11.769
And again, I know you guys, you know, focus more on the younger age groups.

00:24:11.769 --> 00:24:14.619
But again, tournaments can be a cash grab.

00:24:14.619 --> 00:24:17.507
I mean, a huge red flag for me is I have to pay to watch the game.

00:24:17.507 --> 00:24:20.002
Are you crazy, like what?

00:24:20.002 --> 00:24:21.106
What are we doing here?

00:24:21.106 --> 00:24:22.845
So, anyway, listen, I want to.

00:24:22.845 --> 00:24:27.906
I want to refocus us here because we're talking a lot and I did want to ask these questions before we run out of time.

00:24:27.906 --> 00:24:36.502
Right In the article that you guys did with Christie, there's a whole section about proper planning for a tournament.

00:24:36.502 --> 00:24:40.710
Everything from equipment you know, skates and gear to budgeting, to making a plan.

00:24:40.710 --> 00:24:46.689
Can we talk about that from your perspective, two people that have seen thousands of families show up to a tournament?

00:24:46.689 --> 00:24:50.630
What are the ways to properly plan for a tournament?

00:24:51.280 --> 00:24:53.226
Well, I think it starts with for us.

00:24:53.226 --> 00:25:00.811
We communicate with the team manager, so every team, their team manager is our point of contact and emails go this way and that way directly.

00:25:00.811 --> 00:25:07.065
So what you need is a great communicating team manager to get you all the information because we're going to give it to you.

00:25:07.065 --> 00:25:17.505
We have a 20 page tournament information package and I told Brian I'm like that needs to be broken down you should do an instructional video that would be in the mail.

00:25:17.545 --> 00:25:28.926
that 20 pages thing you could do like an infomercial with like hi everybody, but we broke it down now and we put it online and it's more digest, so anybody has access to it.

00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:38.209
So any you know, if you were even interested in our tournaments, you could just go poke around and be like, oh okay, and it's more digestible, but we're very thorough, trying to cover every single base.

00:25:38.670 --> 00:25:38.809
Right.

00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:57.750
But we also give people like, just for Thanksgiving, we send out an email to all the teams that are coming in December and then our teams that are coming in March and said you know, happy Thanksgiving, and if you owe us this, and this is what's coming next for you, because that's the hard thing, because you got the great planners and then you got the ones that are just at their wits end because they've over committed.

00:25:57.750 --> 00:26:02.761
They're, you know, managing multiple teams, whatever your life circumstances, but they're over committed.

00:26:02.761 --> 00:26:04.961
Where they can't process it, we get.

00:26:04.961 --> 00:26:05.564
Try to get you.

00:26:05.564 --> 00:26:06.950
This is what we need now.

00:26:06.950 --> 00:26:10.144
You know timelines and then everything is even on our website.

00:26:10.144 --> 00:26:22.803
It says when the list is ready, when the schedule should be released, when the just to kind of help you along as a parent who's coming to know, okay, well, we're waiting on our team manager, but that's the main thing, yeah, I think communication.

00:26:23.044 --> 00:26:34.327
Communication is the key if gaps, like when you first apply, you do get a notification that you know your application's been accepted but there's a little, you know, break in communication.

00:26:34.327 --> 00:26:38.290
But once we are getting closer to the event there's constant communication.

00:26:38.290 --> 00:26:40.185
If you don't do that, I think there's a breakdown.

00:26:40.185 --> 00:26:52.423
I'd say on the team's side, the number one thing that really they they need to consider is are we committed to the tournament?

00:26:52.423 --> 00:27:05.844
Because when they decide a month before to drop out, it not only affects their team but that division, and that division, if it is not a large division, could get canceled.

00:27:05.844 --> 00:27:13.814
I'm not sure that the team thinks about the other teams that are wanting to come and have planned to come.

00:27:13.814 --> 00:27:15.384
It's in their budget.

00:27:15.384 --> 00:27:22.526
We picked our two or three tournaments for the year and now a team or two drops out and it folds the whole division.

00:27:22.526 --> 00:27:30.220
I think that's that's something that could use a little bit more thought from the, from the teams, when they're selecting tournaments.

00:27:31.103 --> 00:27:31.724
Yeah, that's my.

00:27:31.724 --> 00:27:33.048
I'm going through that right now.

00:27:33.048 --> 00:27:34.525
I'm like are we going?

00:27:34.525 --> 00:27:36.525
Who's going to this tournament?

00:27:36.525 --> 00:27:42.688
I'm getting I, because the minute I get my flight, that's it Like I'm going, I'm going there.

00:27:42.688 --> 00:27:45.709
So I don't know about you guys, I will be there.

00:27:45.709 --> 00:27:48.420
Just let me know if the team and I'm not the team manager, so.

00:27:48.420 --> 00:27:57.614
But I'm just saying it's just like one of those things where you're absolutely right, I mean, but it's, it's that's systemic right For any sport and anything we're doing, to think about the other.

00:27:57.614 --> 00:28:02.190
Like you can't just sign up for something and be like, well, it doesn't matter if I don't, we don't go.

00:28:02.190 --> 00:28:03.002
Well, it does matter.

00:28:03.002 --> 00:28:09.133
Because you've down affected the tournament Six, probably six other teams or, in this case, maybe five of their teams.

00:28:09.133 --> 00:28:16.311
You've affected people's travel plans, you've affected people's destination, you've affected your own parents, like, like there's nothing worse than a tournament.

00:28:16.311 --> 00:28:20.147
You know, get sending you out to schedule the Monday before the Friday's first game, right.

00:28:20.147 --> 00:28:32.221
And then, but again, knowing you know for some of you that's run tournaments, that's most of the time the result of a team dropping out on Sunday, and then we like, oh God, okay, so remember the schedule.

00:28:32.221 --> 00:28:34.648
We sent you six times for the last four weeks.

00:28:34.648 --> 00:28:35.471
That's now changed.

00:28:35.471 --> 00:28:37.825
So, but there is so much juggling.

00:28:37.825 --> 00:28:50.007
And then you know, everybody wants the 11am game and the 530pm game, right, wants time to get out and get the dinner with their team group wants to be able to get out on Sunday morning early, so everybody wants the same thing.

00:28:50.007 --> 00:28:51.281
So I'm sure you know.

00:28:51.281 --> 00:29:00.031
Maybe you could talk a little bit about the challenge of preparing your, the managers you work with to make sure they're disseminating information about.

00:29:00.031 --> 00:29:02.688
Not that it's hard, because people expect you're getting money right.

00:29:02.688 --> 00:29:03.280
People go.

00:29:03.280 --> 00:29:03.983
It is hard.

00:29:03.983 --> 00:29:09.049
But how do you, how does a manager make the experience better for their parents?

00:29:09.049 --> 00:29:12.089
And you know so they're not all calling you.

00:29:12.089 --> 00:29:15.739
Like 19 different families aren't calling you to get this information.

00:29:16.281 --> 00:29:19.865
They're doing a pretty good job of that and we do that at the tournament too.

00:29:19.865 --> 00:29:25.968
If there's an issue, it's going through your team manager or coaches, not through all the parents, because then it just becomes pandemonium.

00:29:25.968 --> 00:29:32.605
So it's keeping everything you know on smooth and when the bumps come, so that they can get smooth down right.

00:29:33.780 --> 00:29:33.942
I.

00:29:33.942 --> 00:29:42.028
The decision to release the schedule is probably one of the most important aspects of the organization of the tournament.

00:29:42.028 --> 00:29:49.262
So when you release that, it's go forward, because you don't want to have to call referees, scorekeepers.

00:29:49.262 --> 00:29:51.954
The ranks move teams between ranks, you know.

00:29:51.954 --> 00:29:56.009
Part of the decision on where they play is what if you're out of town, what hotel you're in.

00:29:56.009 --> 00:30:00.310
Well, we had you at the rink that's 20 minutes away, but now we've had some changes.

00:30:00.310 --> 00:30:02.586
Now you're playing at the rink that's 45 minutes away.

00:30:02.586 --> 00:30:04.362
We try to.

00:30:04.362 --> 00:30:09.051
I think that's an important part is when do you release the schedule?

00:30:09.051 --> 00:30:15.426
You know that everybody's committed and there's not going to be any changes and we've been pretty successful at that.

00:30:15.426 --> 00:30:32.511
We've had very few times that we've had to go back and change the schedule and that just keeps everybody kosher and everything moves forward without any hiccups Cause once you change something, you find out a team went to the wrong rink.

00:30:32.511 --> 00:30:34.282
They were using the old schedule.

00:30:34.924 --> 00:30:35.546
Somebody got missed.

00:30:35.546 --> 00:30:37.650
Yeah, referee got missed, the scorekeeper got missed.

00:30:37.650 --> 00:30:38.491
Somebody's going to get missed.

00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:43.859
The more important to get that timing right when you, once you, launch that schedule.

00:30:44.141 --> 00:30:45.248
But I think the witness point too.

00:30:45.248 --> 00:30:48.285
It's also important for the manager to communicate that properly to you.

00:30:48.285 --> 00:30:58.205
Like you know, a lot of times, like I'm sure this doesn't happen, but you're not sitting at the table at the tournament, like that was Wendy's fault, we had nothing to do with that, this person is the worst manager.

00:30:58.205 --> 00:31:00.366
Like it's always like the customer is always right.

00:31:00.366 --> 00:31:07.286
That's kind of philosophy, but but the customer can really screw things up for you if they're not getting you the proper information.

00:31:07.968 --> 00:31:09.481
Sure, so we try to.

00:31:09.481 --> 00:31:27.022
Well, we stated in the original information saying you know, like no scheduling requests are honored and that's for what you said, like because if everybody said we want to play at 11 and five because we're going to the pro game and we're going to go have a team dinner and it does like okay.

00:31:27.022 --> 00:31:29.269
Well then, how are you playing in the hobby tournament?

00:31:29.269 --> 00:31:30.383
But we also try.

00:31:30.383 --> 00:31:31.969
Brian does a really good job.

00:31:31.969 --> 00:31:38.066
He's a scheduling master where he spreads your games out so that you have time in between to go and eat a meal.

00:31:39.022 --> 00:31:43.986
Yeah, that's a great point because you do go to some tournaments where it's you've got a two hour break between games.

00:31:43.986 --> 00:31:47.446
Yeah, Try to do six, seven, eight hours between games.

00:31:47.446 --> 00:31:48.288
That's awesome.

00:31:48.940 --> 00:31:52.049
I've been in the five tournaments in the last two months that I don't think I've only.

00:31:52.049 --> 00:31:54.949
I've been to the ranked to the hotel, to the ranked to the hotel, and then bed.

00:31:54.949 --> 00:31:59.201
I mean I, literally it wouldn't even matter what was going on outside, it did not.

00:31:59.201 --> 00:32:01.269
I mean, and but that's, and that's not my fault.

00:32:01.269 --> 00:32:18.625
Well, it's my, it's our fault for signing up for the stupid tournament, but I think, for for for us, it was like it was like, well, didn't any thought go into the fact that we're in this beautiful place that you know I, I'm work, we're working with, like you know, high school level kids that are looking at colleges right now, like the whole idea of these tournaments.

00:32:18.625 --> 00:32:21.721
And you've go to Boston, or you go to Rhode Island, or you go somewhere.

00:32:21.721 --> 00:32:32.391
You, you know upstate New York, you want to be able to say, well, I can, I have a three hour, four hour block in here, we can get out of the rank, we can go visit a bunch of different colleges, see some campuses, see what's going on.

00:32:32.391 --> 00:32:41.051
If I'm in Nashville, you know I'm going to Tootsies or I'm finding a way I'm, I'm going to go somewhere where you know there's an experience that I can enjoy too right.

00:32:41.051 --> 00:32:47.383
So I think it's like and, and, and I'm sure every tournament you have because I would do it right now If I was starting for your tournament go.

00:32:47.383 --> 00:32:50.343
Okay, predators are playing the Dallas Star Saturday night.

00:32:50.343 --> 00:32:53.029
Do not schedule me a game after five or five hours.

00:32:54.344 --> 00:32:57.063
It happens, but guess what this year the Preds are out of town.

00:32:57.282 --> 00:32:58.465
Yeah, yeah they're out of town.

00:32:58.465 --> 00:32:59.027
That helps you.

00:32:59.027 --> 00:32:59.729
That helps you.

00:32:59.729 --> 00:33:00.329
I guarantee it.

00:33:00.329 --> 00:33:00.810
It does help.

00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:03.666
But we also want to support and they've been great.

00:33:03.666 --> 00:33:10.111
I mean, the Predators have been great over the years too, and so have the Capitals with, you know, trying to get the kids there and doing all that.

00:33:10.111 --> 00:33:11.605
So it's when it works.

00:33:11.605 --> 00:33:17.424
But yeah, it's just everybody taking a breath and realizing it affects more than just you and your team.

00:33:17.424 --> 00:33:18.102
It's the.

00:33:18.102 --> 00:33:25.750
There's 50 something teams coming in December and in March we have our two tournaments that each are going on 65 to 70 teams.

00:33:25.750 --> 00:33:27.907
So that's a lot of people, a lot of moving parts.

00:33:27.907 --> 00:33:31.368
So when one team or one manager says, hey, can we?

00:33:31.368 --> 00:33:37.750
Just it's not a big deal, it's like but yeah, but we try to try to do what we can.

00:33:37.750 --> 00:33:42.691
But we also say, you know, please don't make requests unless it's something really necessary.

00:33:42.859 --> 00:33:45.525
And there's some years where we did reach the hundred team.

00:33:45.525 --> 00:33:49.854
You know, tournaments, participation.

00:33:49.854 --> 00:33:53.606
I think we prefer to do 50, 60, 70 somewhere in.

00:33:53.606 --> 00:33:58.847
There is a better number because it provides us and the teams a lot more flexibility.

00:33:58.847 --> 00:34:05.392
Once you start ratcheting it up, you get lose that flexibility and it's just.

00:34:05.392 --> 00:34:07.644
I think it's a better experience.

00:34:08.903 --> 00:34:15.447
Yeah, but I'm glad you brought that up, because one of the things I think that's really great about your tournaments is that you did realize like, hey, you know what?

00:34:15.447 --> 00:34:16.168
This is too much.

00:34:16.168 --> 00:34:25.409
Right, we can't operate to our standard because it's too much, and I think that that's something that, when we're looking for tournaments, people should think about.

00:34:25.409 --> 00:34:27.425
Right, are there a hundred teams in this tournament?

00:34:27.425 --> 00:34:33.746
Because, again, it's not that the tournament would be run bad, but that might be a red flag of the.

00:34:33.746 --> 00:34:36.224
You know, there's too many moving parts, there's too many things going on.

00:34:36.224 --> 00:34:39.369
You know, one of the other things we're talking about is these ice times.

00:34:39.369 --> 00:34:47.905
Look, I would say there are some situations where two games close together in a playoff scenario is very, very frustrating.

00:34:47.905 --> 00:35:03.166
If you're the only team doing it, if every team has to do it, you know it's all gravy, but as a coach, I often tell the parents and the kids, like you know, this one game or these two games are at a horrible time for us, and that's adversity that we have to overcome together.

00:35:03.166 --> 00:35:04.786
So you're going to have to plan about it.

00:35:04.786 --> 00:35:05.967
You're going to have to do better with it.

00:35:05.967 --> 00:35:09.547
So it's right, at dinner time we're going to have to think about our food before and after.

00:35:09.547 --> 00:35:19.065
So, like all of these things at tournaments the good and the bad opportunities for you as a coach or a manager or a team, to overcome adversity Things are not always going to work in your favor.

00:35:19.065 --> 00:35:21.985
Here's the other thing, too what's the mentality stuff?

00:35:21.985 --> 00:35:28.146
The team that gets to the playoffs that had three rough times is going to be a little hungrier to win than the team that had the perfect time.

00:35:28.146 --> 00:35:33.211
So convenience is not a guarantee when it comes to tournaments.

00:35:33.211 --> 00:35:52.889
What should be the guarantee is what you two are providing, which is a good, memorable experience with the opportunity to look around where you're at All right, I would be so frustrated if I was at a tournament at a location and I didn't get out of the rink or the hotel, like Mike just said, like that is not the point for us going Right.

00:35:52.889 --> 00:35:56.751
So I applaud you for that, for making sure that that happens.

00:35:56.751 --> 00:36:07.646
You know, the other thing I wanted to bring up from the article too, was we talked about performance, right, especially like when it comes to meals and rest and arriving.

00:36:07.646 --> 00:36:12.186
So, brian, you had said you do, you guys do a good job of kind of scheduling things out.

00:36:12.186 --> 00:36:13.759
You talked about managers.

00:36:13.759 --> 00:36:15.403
You talked about prepping the teams, right.

00:36:15.403 --> 00:36:21.166
What are some of those keys the team should do to be prepped when they arrive so that they can go out and do things?

00:36:23.096 --> 00:36:24.077
Yeah, they definitely should.

00:36:24.077 --> 00:36:28.282
You know, should make sure that you get to the rink.

00:36:28.282 --> 00:36:46.646
You know within, you know amount of time to warm up and you know, check out the facility, especially your first game, right, you know, really knowing where that everybody knows where that rink is located and there's a time that everybody's expected to get there and then you'll have plenty of times.

00:36:46.646 --> 00:37:06.737
You know, prepare yourself for the game mentally, do some warm ups, but if you got everybody scurrying around and again it goes back to communication If we're communicating properly and the managers are communicating and the families, the parents, are listening to their manager, everything works well.

00:37:06.737 --> 00:37:09.601
So it's really just giving yourself adequate time.

00:37:09.601 --> 00:37:24.583
When you're going to need to get your skate sharp and get some tape, maybe even buy a stick, you know you got to show up to the rink with enough, enough time and know that the facility that you're playing at has has you know a great point, right, If they don't have a skate sharpener?

00:37:26.396 --> 00:37:56.422
So we just, we just had a guest recently that was, you know, our our manager, guru, right, and I think what she talked about, one of the things that you're bringing up is that boilerplate time place, uniform time to be there, time we're leaving, who's going to, who's running the you know who's if it's a home game, who's running the clock or who's checking the kids in, who's doing who's locking, monitoring, and just have that boilerplate piece and then you, just, you just stick in whatever those duties are to help you and I know that probably helps you too.

00:37:56.422 --> 00:37:57.824
When you come to a rink, like there's nothing.

00:37:57.824 --> 00:38:02.889
For me as a coach, more frustrating is, like, you know, trying to guess, like, okay, are we wearing home?

00:38:02.889 --> 00:38:06.440
Or you wearing home, who's wearing the blue jerseys, who wearing the white jerseys?

00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:08.382
Like, is there a medic here?

00:38:08.382 --> 00:38:09.804
Is there, is there a pro shop?

00:38:09.804 --> 00:38:11.688
I got five kids that need their skate there.

00:38:11.688 --> 00:38:13.576
They're sticks cut.

00:38:13.576 --> 00:38:16.458
Well, is that anybody gonna let them use a saw?

00:38:16.458 --> 00:38:17.099
We have a saw.

00:38:17.099 --> 00:38:21.304
Like it's like this whole like thing that you need to go through every single weekend.

00:38:21.304 --> 00:38:32.079
And we could avoid all that just by having that communication piece and following your 20 page, you know, guy, to your, to your 20 page, which, again to me, I'm like thank God, there's so much information there.

00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:41.650
Like I, I, I shouldn't miss any of this, but it comes down to just that piece of communications, like parsing it all up so that people have responsibilities to do these things.

00:38:42.715 --> 00:38:51.143
And in part of it, you know, falls on the tournament, when you get into that ring will just say you know, some of them are two sheets, three sheets, four sheets.

00:38:51.143 --> 00:39:04.260
We notice on a Friday, the first you know day of the tournament people come in in a scurry, they look lost and people that are in the lobby waiting for those you know teams to come in and greet them.

00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:06.121
That includes the ring staff Right.

00:39:06.121 --> 00:39:17.398
Some ranks operate different than others, so we're fortunate to have some great ranks that we play out of their very own and we learned about keeping things scheduled on time.

00:39:17.398 --> 00:39:29.789
So it's when you first get in, how do you get people organized and, you know, situated for them, to make them feel comfortable, rather than feeling like, okay, I'm overwhelmed, what, where are we?

00:39:29.789 --> 00:39:31.190
You know, what rank are we playing?

00:39:33.007 --> 00:39:33.635
on where's my locker room.

00:39:33.635 --> 00:39:34.356
There's nothing more frustrating.

00:39:34.356 --> 00:39:36.943
Right then you go to a tournament and the person that's sitting at the desk does this.

00:39:36.943 --> 00:39:43.163
I'm like, oh, please don't speak to me so kind of like this.

00:39:43.163 --> 00:39:44.125
Don't look at the board.

00:39:44.284 --> 00:39:45.126
All the games are on the board.

00:39:45.126 --> 00:39:46.277
Just doing this.

00:39:48.655 --> 00:39:51.298
But it's like, but again, that's like the old gap reader.

00:39:51.298 --> 00:39:51.559
Right?

00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:53.902
Just just give me an opportunity to know that.

00:39:53.902 --> 00:39:55.045
Okay, I'm acknowledged.

00:39:55.045 --> 00:39:57.367
I just paid $10,000 to be here.

00:39:57.367 --> 00:40:00.119
Thank you, I'm here for a great weekend.

00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.161
Just where to go.

00:40:01.161 --> 00:40:02.224
Tell me when to be there.

00:40:02.224 --> 00:40:03.347
Tell me when to get out.

00:40:03.894 --> 00:40:06.179
You know, mike, it's like the best ones I remember.

00:40:06.179 --> 00:40:08.141
Here's your tournament pack Right.

00:40:08.141 --> 00:40:08.402
Here's a.

00:40:08.402 --> 00:40:10.186
Here's a bunch of information for you.

00:40:10.186 --> 00:40:11.568
Here's a table of information.

00:40:11.568 --> 00:40:12.530
Take whatever you need.

00:40:12.530 --> 00:40:13.657
What team are you on?

00:40:13.657 --> 00:40:14.838
Great, here's the rink you're in.

00:40:14.838 --> 00:40:15.619
This is your first game.

00:40:15.619 --> 00:40:16.501
Is anything we can do for it?

00:40:16.501 --> 00:40:17.963
We got to remember to even mention this.

00:40:17.963 --> 00:40:19.065
This is after.

00:40:19.065 --> 00:40:24.494
Parents are probably dragging their kids, you know, from a, from a stressful so just to get them to the rank on time.

00:40:24.494 --> 00:40:33.422
You're already stressed when you get there and they're drawn likely Maybe sometimes some of them are right, never me, but yeah, but it's one of those things like that.

00:40:33.422 --> 00:40:35.065
First, you make a great point.

00:40:35.065 --> 00:40:37.768
When you do that, that first interaction is huge.

00:40:37.768 --> 00:40:41.155
Right, because it sets the tone for the whole tournament, yeah, right.

00:40:41.155 --> 00:40:45.764
So I think that and again, I love that you guys do this, because I've been to some horrible tournaments.

00:40:45.764 --> 00:40:49.936
I'm going to talk about some of these nightmares I've been to before, but let's stay on the positives.

00:40:49.936 --> 00:40:51.579
To here with what's working.

00:40:51.579 --> 00:40:53.240
So you introduce them, right.

00:40:53.240 --> 00:40:56.364
And and do you, do you guys hire someone?

00:40:56.364 --> 00:40:57.427
Do that, or is that just the staff?

00:40:57.427 --> 00:40:59.168
Do you educate the rink ahead of time.

00:40:59.208 --> 00:40:59.409
how do?

00:40:59.409 --> 00:41:00.471
What are the best practices?

00:41:00.471 --> 00:41:03.684
So there's tournament tables set up in the lobbies of each ring.

00:41:04.085 --> 00:41:04.385
Right.

00:41:04.994 --> 00:41:11.141
And well, like Brian said, at the gardens ice house, their information center, they're very helpful and friendly.

00:41:11.141 --> 00:41:20.755
They're friends in the neighborhood.

00:41:20.755 --> 00:41:26.141
Luckily, they've been helping us over the years, right, so we present that tournament front of here.

00:41:26.141 --> 00:41:28.764
Here's where you can get your information for whatever you need.

00:41:28.764 --> 00:41:36.956
Right, that's a helpful one, but I'm like we need a flag so you can see overall people, because they're out of the lobby with it.

00:41:36.976 --> 00:41:37.436
Look for you.

00:41:37.436 --> 00:41:39.719
They look for you right and look.

00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.842
Just even seeing a smiling face I get it.

00:41:42.842 --> 00:41:45.585
You know, and again, I remember the best tournaments have been to.

00:41:45.585 --> 00:41:50.010
Sometimes they might even give the kid like, hey, here's a little candy or a gift, thanks for being here.

00:41:50.010 --> 00:41:51.577
The kids love that, you know.

00:41:51.577 --> 00:41:54.063
The kids don't feel the stress the same way the parents do.

00:41:54.063 --> 00:41:59.942
The kids just want to go out there and play, right, and I think that helping the parents probably ends up helping the kids.

00:41:59.942 --> 00:42:04.288
Let me ask you guys this this is going to be one that everyone relates to.

00:42:04.288 --> 00:42:05.309
That's ever been to a tournament.

00:42:05.309 --> 00:42:16.650
I'm going to talk a little bit about some of the crazy things I've seen at tournaments, right, or common situations that I would love to know how you kind of combat this or prepare for it.

00:42:16.650 --> 00:42:18.317
Here's a few off.

00:42:18.317 --> 00:42:19.297
I wrote them down a few.

00:42:19.297 --> 00:42:32.193
I have been to a tournament where, after the the regular games were done, one of the teams had to do something the next day, so they reseeded the playoffs, which was insanity to me.

00:42:32.193 --> 00:42:33.815
So you earned your playoff spot.

00:42:33.815 --> 00:42:34.878
They had a team in second.

00:42:34.878 --> 00:42:38.001
They said well, you're in fourth now because it doesn't work out for this other team.

00:42:38.001 --> 00:42:40.083
That was insane to me.

00:42:40.083 --> 00:42:40.864
That was one of them.

00:42:40.864 --> 00:42:42.706
I can understand why everybody was upset.

00:42:42.706 --> 00:42:53.085
I had one tournament where the rules were very unclear for tiebreakers and and and again, tiebreaker rules at tournaments are insanely important.

00:42:53.085 --> 00:42:55.208
I you guys are not going to disagree with that.

00:42:55.208 --> 00:42:56.009
You're shaking your heads.

00:42:56.009 --> 00:43:02.501
I have been there where you have multiple teams, there's a three way tie and a team is selected.

00:43:02.501 --> 00:43:26.010
I was at one one time where head to head was not the tiebreaker which is that was terrifying to me and a team that didn't win against the two teams they were on it was a goal differential or something ended up getting it right, which which, again, I think a competitive nature in my opinion you can disagree with me head to head should be one of the first tiebreakers when it comes to going to a playoff scenario.

00:43:26.010 --> 00:43:47.800
Then there's the referee situation and unfortunately, you know, when you get to a tournament, parents and people that are watching tend to watch every game like it's the Stanley Cup game seven playoff thing and if my kid doesn't win in this game or there's, you know these refs for lack of a better word there, there, they're amateur referees, are not NHL referees.

00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:50.583
They're going to do the best they can and they're getting.

00:43:50.583 --> 00:43:54.447
I would never want to ref a tournament, just personally.

00:43:54.447 --> 00:44:03.688
How do you combat some of these crazy things again, from seeding to tiebreakers, to referees, and then you know, even maybe out of control parents?

00:44:05.393 --> 00:44:07.039
I'll take a stab at that.

00:44:07.210 --> 00:44:09.036
That was a big one, I'm sorry, it's a big one.

00:44:09.170 --> 00:44:09.932
Straight off, we got.

00:44:11.731 --> 00:44:12.614
With the seeding.

00:44:12.614 --> 00:44:14.300
The seeding has evolved.

00:44:14.300 --> 00:44:16.336
We used to put up the big boards at the rink.

00:44:16.336 --> 00:44:18.097
We stopped doing that since COVID.

00:44:18.097 --> 00:44:20.438
Covid really changed how we do everything.

00:44:20.438 --> 00:44:22.838
Everything's done via website.

00:44:22.838 --> 00:44:28.717
All the standings are up there, all the points are up there, but when we used to do those boards, people would be.

00:44:28.717 --> 00:44:33.577
There'd be 30 people over your shoulder, especially when you're deciding who gets advanced.

00:44:33.577 --> 00:44:34.380
I remember that.

00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:38.561
My guys and gals at work, they all made mistakes.

00:44:38.561 --> 00:44:40.697
They added up something wrong.

00:44:40.909 --> 00:44:41.994
You paid under the pressure.

00:44:41.994 --> 00:44:44.235
You can do the math, but there's too much pressure.

00:44:44.789 --> 00:44:52.057
I remember seeing that that's ridiculous People are trying to tell you oh, it should be this way or that way they paid you off.

00:44:52.289 --> 00:44:54.177
You got paid off to put that team ahead.

00:44:55.273 --> 00:45:03.757
We always had a parent that would say, okay, if you win by three and they lose by six, and if this team shows up at the rink five minutes late and doesn't come with their starting goalie, we're in.

00:45:04.030 --> 00:45:06.137
If we poison their pizza, it'll be.

00:45:06.976 --> 00:45:07.710
I can't even deal with that.

00:45:07.710 --> 00:45:08.954
I said just go play the game.

00:45:08.974 --> 00:45:10.057
Just go play the game, guys.

00:45:10.057 --> 00:45:11.693
Tell me where I'm going, it'll take care of itself.

00:45:12.030 --> 00:45:13.315
But that does make a big difference, right?

00:45:13.315 --> 00:45:14.152
You just throw it online.

00:45:14.152 --> 00:45:14.976
Everybody's on their phones.

00:45:15.871 --> 00:45:26.740
Yeah, it's changed everything as far as the acceptance of the results and we do a system where it's done by game points.

00:45:26.740 --> 00:45:32.916
You get two if you win, you get one for a tie, zero for a loss, and then we do head to head.

00:45:32.916 --> 00:45:34.175
That's our next criteria.

00:45:34.175 --> 00:45:39.418
And then we do period points and everybody's, and then we do least goals and most goals.

00:45:39.418 --> 00:45:44.400
But people are always saying do you combine the game points and the period points?

00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:49.101
No, the rules are very clear that it's step by step, by step.

00:45:49.101 --> 00:46:02.842
But the biggest challenge, I think, is once we place a team, we have quite a few people that want us to continue going down the criteria.

00:46:02.842 --> 00:46:05.289
We go back to the beginning.

00:46:05.289 --> 00:46:12.740
So if we have three teams that are tied, we place one, those two teams, we go back to game points.

00:46:12.740 --> 00:46:19.300
Obviously they're tied and we go back because it's head to head that usually determines who advances.

00:46:19.300 --> 00:46:26.778
That's why we go back rather than continue and that creates a whole lot of controversy for some people or acceptance of it and other people.

00:46:26.849 --> 00:46:28.998
It depends if you got in or not.

00:46:28.998 --> 00:46:34.596
Yeah, and I think it's so important that you know the rules prior to playing your first game.

00:46:34.596 --> 00:46:39.356
It kills me when anybody coaches parents like well, I don't agree with, that's the way it should be.

00:46:39.356 --> 00:46:40.119
That's great.

00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:44.079
That's a comment for six months ago or six months from now.

00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:50.574
If it's clearly written that head to head is the tiebreaker, that's the tiebreaker, right, whether you like it or not.

00:46:50.655 --> 00:46:56.856
It sounds like to me and I've never received this from Whitney, but it's probably in the guide, so I would hope it is definitely in the guide.

00:46:56.856 --> 00:47:03.077
So when I sign up for the tournament that's very clear it's not like well, this doesn't seem fair.

00:47:03.077 --> 00:47:09.114
Well, no, I know you shouldn't have signed up for the tournament, but I mean you know, if you want to change the criteria and how that all lays out.

00:47:09.114 --> 00:47:13.152
then go to the tournament that allows you to never win a game and still get into the finals.

00:47:13.152 --> 00:47:13.956
That's great.

00:47:13.956 --> 00:47:19.315
Go to that tournament, but I think when you go in, when you're going in, it's just like anything else right, you sign up.

00:47:19.335 --> 00:47:21.474
You should make that tournament, mike, we'll be rich.

00:47:21.474 --> 00:47:24.952
Right, I mean every game, and still We'll lose every game.

00:47:24.992 --> 00:47:29.815
As long as you paid your in, you're in the finals and in fact, if you pay more money, you get into the finals, no matter what.

00:47:29.815 --> 00:47:35.213
But I think the issue is it's the same thing of everything Like you can't go.

00:47:35.213 --> 00:47:37.219
Well, I don't agree with this rule.

00:47:37.219 --> 00:47:41.016
Well I know, but you signed up for the tournament, you signed up for even the league.

00:47:41.016 --> 00:47:42.653
Very point Rule there.

00:47:42.653 --> 00:47:59.936
So let's just use that rule, and I think it's so important too, and it sounds like you guys have buttoned this up is like your scorekeeper's got to be on task too, right, like I mean, what's the anxiety level between the game clock ending and the score having to be updated from the person coming out of the family?

00:48:00.210 --> 00:48:02.418
They actually want the score updated before the game ends.

00:48:02.418 --> 00:48:03.594
We'll get a message.

00:48:04.231 --> 00:48:08.097
We'll get a message or an email that already has When's the score going to be posted.

00:48:08.170 --> 00:48:09.657
So the buzzard just went off.

00:48:09.657 --> 00:48:12.018
The referees aren't even out of the handshake line yet.

00:48:13.976 --> 00:48:14.980
Yeah, but it is a thank list.

00:48:15.672 --> 00:48:16.474
That's the part, right?

00:48:16.474 --> 00:48:18.534
That's the juggle, that's the like.

00:48:18.534 --> 00:48:23.036
And again somebody like me would come in screaming and yelling at you guys and you're like OK, I got to act like.

00:48:23.036 --> 00:48:28.476
This is the first time I've heard this complaint, but I've heard it seven million times this same thing.

00:48:28.476 --> 00:48:32.961
But that's the dance of being a tournament director, right?

00:48:32.961 --> 00:48:35.393
Just saying you're right, we're looking at it.

00:48:35.393 --> 00:48:37.655
We're going to make the adjud.

00:48:37.655 --> 00:48:39.019
This is what it is.

00:48:39.019 --> 00:48:48.818
This is why it's clear and yes, ma'am or sir, you may not agree with it, but it's been the rule we've had.

00:48:48.838 --> 00:48:49.358
That's the rule.

00:48:49.358 --> 00:48:50.322
That's the rule.

00:48:50.322 --> 00:48:52.594
That's how we run our tournament.

00:48:52.614 --> 00:48:53.177
Yeah, I think it's just.

00:48:53.177 --> 00:48:53.878
But I think that is.

00:48:53.878 --> 00:49:03.101
But people get all heated up and crazy and you know, for whatever, justified or not, they're just At the least point, you're competitive and you know.

00:49:03.101 --> 00:49:04.036
Then you start throwing in.

00:49:04.036 --> 00:49:06.534
You haven't slept in three days and you probably have a flight to catch.

00:49:07.331 --> 00:49:08.186
The kids have been awesome.

00:49:08.186 --> 00:49:09.974
The kids have just been awesome the whole time.

00:49:10.436 --> 00:49:16.192
Right, right, the hotel's never sent the complaints about the ball hockey, nothing I mean.

00:49:16.192 --> 00:49:18.956
Everything's going great, I'm sure, but it's like a very stressful.

00:49:18.956 --> 00:49:21.673
It's funny every tournament you go to you're like why the hell are we doing this?

00:49:21.673 --> 00:49:23.114
And then you sign up for the next one.

00:49:23.114 --> 00:49:26.672
But again, if you're having a good experience, that's what I love.

00:49:26.672 --> 00:49:29.416
That in the beginning here, when we talked about that, that it's not.

00:49:29.416 --> 00:49:41.157
I don't think you guys, you know, never, you never introduced the tournament as, oh, when you come here, you're going to be the, you're going to be shown that they're the top 10 ranked team in the country and this is going to be.

00:49:41.157 --> 00:49:55.090
You know we're going to compete into the death, like we are trying to schedule here for you to have a great experience and we want you, as a concierge, to you have that experience and that's you know.

00:49:55.090 --> 00:50:06.512
I'll tell you, that doesn't happen in a lot and it certainly doesn't happen in a lot of these bigger tournaments where they act like it's a showcase but all it is is, you know, somebody's scheduling teams to play each other.

00:50:07.610 --> 00:50:14.094
And I think, when you look back at the history of our tournaments, like I said, early 70s is when we started.

00:50:14.094 --> 00:50:22.661
Probably all the way up to Close to 2000, maybe 1995, we were AAA tournaments.

00:50:22.661 --> 00:50:35.336
We transitioned from a AAA type tournament to more tier two, and that tier two also included all these house select teams that didn't have tournaments to go to.

00:50:35.336 --> 00:50:44.695
So I think we opened up an area that we felt was we were comfortable with, you know, providing a tournament for that type of hockey.

00:50:44.695 --> 00:50:48.322
I think we don't have a lot of AAA hockey anymore.

00:50:48.322 --> 00:50:51.074
Oh yeah, I think that was our basis.

00:50:51.690 --> 00:50:59.856
Sometimes the non AAA kids can enjoy a tournament more than AAA because there's so much pressure at a higher level sometimes to perform.

00:50:59.856 --> 00:51:08.717
You know, like you know, man, some of the lower level tournaments are great because it's you get that competitive atmosphere and I think even from a development standpoint.

00:51:08.717 --> 00:51:15.715
You know, kids can discover a lot about themselves from a confidence standpoint, from a team standpoint, when they're introduced to that environment.

00:51:15.715 --> 00:51:21.199
You know, something you brought up earlier, I wanted to bring up about just tournament guidelines.

00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:37.518
You talked about period points and I love hearing you say that and again, everyone does it a little bit differently, but the idea is that you can, whether you win or lose a period, there's a tally for that of some sort, so that if there is a tiebreaker, you can go back okay, who won the most periods during the weekend?

00:51:37.518 --> 00:51:46.454
The reason I love this is because I am very much against goals for and goals against being high up on the list of tiebreakers.

00:51:46.454 --> 00:51:48.396
I think there is a point that they should come into it.

00:51:48.396 --> 00:51:58.978
All right, but the problem with goals for and goals against is that you'll get a 20-nothing game, a 25-nothing game, because that someone says and here's the thing, it's not really the team's fault at that point.

00:51:58.978 --> 00:52:04.277
If that's the tiebreaker, it's what we got a 20 goal this team or 10 goal this team, so we can get that tiebreaker.

00:52:04.277 --> 00:52:10.855
And that is not fun for anyone and I love, as a coach, being in a position to say, hey, let's win the period.

00:52:10.855 --> 00:52:24.231
All right, let's win the shift, let's win the period, because you never know and I've been in tournaments where we've advanced or, more importantly, didn't advance because we didn't win every period and it's a great lesson for the kids of.

00:52:24.231 --> 00:52:26.594
This is why playing the whole game is such an important aspect.

00:52:26.594 --> 00:52:28.076
You can't ever think that you've won.

00:52:28.076 --> 00:52:31.817
That's a lot better than hey, listen, we gotta get 10 goals this period.

00:52:31.817 --> 00:52:34.938
If we get 13 goals this game, we advance.

00:52:36.934 --> 00:52:43.438
Well, it's also the whole like as you're speaking about, like the type of teams you're catering to right now.

00:52:43.438 --> 00:52:48.458
Those teams probably aren't going like AAA teams are going to 17 tournaments a year.

00:52:48.458 --> 00:53:02.335
These probably this is probably their tournament Like, so that experience becomes even really more important for the kids because it's probably something they normally don't get to do where these other high level teams, every weekend is a showcase in a tournament, right?

00:53:02.335 --> 00:53:03.856
So I think that's number one.

00:53:03.856 --> 00:53:08.929
I think number two just the criteria of when teams play, and I said this all the time.

00:53:08.929 --> 00:53:15.119
Like you can't in a youth hockey world say, well, this team won this game, I go, yeah, but does your team split goalies?

00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:16.516
Does your team even have a goalie?

00:53:16.516 --> 00:53:17.693
Does your team have?

00:53:17.693 --> 00:53:27.838
So, like, it's just this the four kids show up for Saturday at Ms Friday, or did five kids leave Saturday because they got a lacrosse tournament or they got soccer?

00:53:27.838 --> 00:53:30.177
Like there's so many variables in youth hockey.

00:53:30.177 --> 00:53:35.181
It's not like you know that you get the lineup on Monday morning for Monday night football.

00:53:35.181 --> 00:53:39.797
If here's the starting quarterback and here's who's gonna play, you have no idea who's coming sometimes, right?

00:53:39.797 --> 00:53:44.454
So I think having the flexibility as a coach and a parent to know that.

00:53:44.454 --> 00:53:59.059
You know all the pressure is not on scoring all these goals or not letting up goals, it's just you can I mean, if you're smart and you really know the system and you're really into this kind of thing I guess in a tournament you can start to say, hey, we need to win two of our periods.

00:53:59.059 --> 00:54:03.958
We could play this goalie and then, if this kid doesn't matter, if he gives up 20 goals, we still are ahead.

00:54:03.958 --> 00:54:05.371
We could win two periods, like I don't know.

00:54:05.371 --> 00:54:08.257
There's a lot of strategy that can go in there if you're really gonna get that deep.

00:54:08.650 --> 00:54:11.824
It enables coaches to coach better with those rules.

00:54:11.829 --> 00:54:25.996
I think so right, especially when you get into, like the Saturday afternoon game where maybe you're rotating goalies and players and you don't know who should get the start, because now everybody's doing the math and, like I know, this kid has played two games in a row but you know he's our starting goalie.

00:54:25.996 --> 00:54:27.476
He's gotta play in order for us to win.

00:54:27.476 --> 00:54:30.476
Well, I just flew to Nashville and my kid hasn't even seen the ice yet.

00:54:30.476 --> 00:55:02.612
So it's like there's all kinds of but it sounds like your tournaments, because they're geared and I don't mean this is not like a reflection of the level, but it's toned down a little bit Like there's not that piece, like listen, I've been in tournaments right now where coaches basically won't pull their goalie because if they lose by one more goal and it falls out of the my hockey ranking algorithm that all of a sudden they're gonna get knocked out of a 50 point mark and they're gonna be a 64 point team, which I'm like.

00:55:02.612 --> 00:55:03.956
This is how we're coaching.

00:55:03.956 --> 00:55:13.373
We're not coaching the win, we're coaching to manipulate the algorithm which, if I'm a triple A, double A if I'm in a tournament.

00:55:13.373 --> 00:55:15.018
I'm just coming to play, yeah.

00:55:15.610 --> 00:55:23.416
No, but we have some of those ultra competitive coaches and their teams don't have as much fun and they may or may not win.

00:55:23.416 --> 00:55:24.679
And they usually don't win.

00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:35.302
They usually end up losing in a semi-final, or you know what I mean and then they're just more upset about why you wanted it, because if you stack up all of the things, we should win right.

00:55:35.302 --> 00:55:45.376
So there's always that element of it that well, actually, we used to run a reform coaches clinic at the tournament we built a wooden post.

00:55:45.376 --> 00:55:50.255
It was actually for digital photography, but Brian's dad.

00:55:50.255 --> 00:55:52.875
We're all about good sports, how to be good sports, right.

00:55:52.875 --> 00:55:54.376
Be a good sports development.

00:55:54.376 --> 00:55:58.336
They're all kids, whether they're the eight years or the 18 years, because we go all the way up to 18 years.

00:55:58.336 --> 00:56:02.777
It's about developing these kids, because you don't know where they're gonna develop, right?

00:56:02.777 --> 00:56:12.737
So this kid who's playing on the house team at 16 years old could still end up playing in college if they wanted to, and the cards line up and they work really hard for it, those types of things.

00:56:12.737 --> 00:56:19.496
But these coaches would come to us with tears in their eyes reading his dad's letter, saying I finally got it.

00:56:19.496 --> 00:56:22.713
And they were one of those Uber ultra competitive that read it and went.

00:56:23.173 --> 00:56:30.036
It's about the kids, it's about fun, I mean all of it is right, and that's not limited to just tournaments.

00:56:30.036 --> 00:56:33.918
It's an interesting realization.

00:56:33.918 --> 00:56:38.672
Sometimes you see people come to that from a coaching standpoint, a parent standpoint, a manager standpoint.

00:56:38.672 --> 00:56:46.679
It's not about us, it's about them and making sure that they have the best experience humanly possible, especially when they're younger.

00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:52.896
Because here's the deal, man, if I'm seven, eight, nine years old and I'm just under pressure, I don't wanna play hockey anymore after that.

00:56:52.896 --> 00:56:55.197
But if I go to Nashville, we should talk about that.

00:56:55.197 --> 00:57:00.458
You know Nashville is a fantastic destination, right, the DMV is a fantastic destination.

00:57:00.458 --> 00:57:01.373
You go see the capital.

00:57:01.373 --> 00:57:04.639
You know, if you're in Maryland, you can go see that side of things.

00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:06.657
If you're in Nashville, it's a great city.

00:57:06.657 --> 00:57:14.018
Why would you do that and not expose your kid to that wonderful experience, especially if you've never been to those places before?

00:57:14.018 --> 00:57:21.637
And then you know you get these little hole in the wall tournaments usually they're local that you know they're in the middle of nowhere and it's like what is the point of being here?

00:57:21.637 --> 00:57:22.574
Why did we travel here?

00:57:22.574 --> 00:57:26.193
So I just think that you're kind of rounding this episode out too.

00:57:26.193 --> 00:57:28.460
What would we learn today?

00:57:28.460 --> 00:57:34.664
Right, one is that great tournaments have great tournament managers that truly care about the people coming.

00:57:34.664 --> 00:57:36.722
They're gonna have that booth out front.

00:57:36.722 --> 00:57:38.742
They're gonna do less teams over more teams.

00:57:38.742 --> 00:57:44.626
They're gonna find those little ways, like crab hats or cowboy hats or straw hats, to make you feel welcome, make you feel part of it.

00:57:44.626 --> 00:57:46.061
They're going to have very clear rules.

00:57:46.061 --> 00:57:49.041
They're gonna have very clear paperwork that shows you this is everything you need to know.

00:57:49.041 --> 00:57:50.858
That is a well, not a red flag.

00:57:50.858 --> 00:57:51.400
It's the opposite.

00:57:51.400 --> 00:57:52.364
That's a green flag.

00:57:52.364 --> 00:57:54.057
That's a yes, this looks great.

00:57:54.057 --> 00:57:57.518
The other half team managers I'm talking to you.

00:57:57.518 --> 00:58:06.322
I can tell you, guys, this right now, the best tournaments I have ever gone to had that first half, but we had an itinerary.

00:58:06.322 --> 00:58:10.103
Our team manager put together a fantastic itinerary.

00:58:10.103 --> 00:58:11.166
This is when we're playing.

00:58:11.166 --> 00:58:12.400
Like you said, this is what we're wearing.

00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:13.980
We're having a team meal here.

00:58:13.980 --> 00:58:15.900
You have free time here.

00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:17.820
Here's the local destinations.

00:58:17.820 --> 00:58:20.041
I'd like to plan a team trip on this time.

00:58:20.041 --> 00:58:21.719
This is what we're doing.

00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:23.900
Parents love that.

00:58:23.900 --> 00:58:25.757
All right, I love that.

00:58:25.757 --> 00:58:28.036
What I don't have to think right and I can go.

00:58:28.036 --> 00:58:35.760
And Mike, like you said, not that I would ever get too much, but I can have a drink and be okay, just relaxing a little bit because I know that it's been taken care of.

00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:44.880
That is the recipe to me for a wonderful tournament experience that the tournament directors and the team manager are on the same page.

00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:48.378
And then it makes the coaching easy because you know where you need to be.

00:58:48.378 --> 00:58:55.481
We're gonna have fun, we're gonna do what we can and, whether you have three games or five games or anything in between, you have something planned well.

00:58:55.481 --> 00:59:03.579
And on top of it, especially with showdown, there's this great Olympic event that we're gonna have and you're all gonna get to participate and showcase your skills.

00:59:03.579 --> 00:59:05.221
You're gonna see kids with other skills.

00:59:05.221 --> 00:59:16.215
I remember doing one of these when I was younger and I was look, I was the fastest skater on my team and I was not in that Olympic event that we did, and that was a very humbling and awesome experience for me to see.

00:59:16.215 --> 00:59:20.519
Wow, there's kids faster because I can get better and I can move faster.

00:59:20.519 --> 00:59:25.539
And I got beat today and it wasn't a negative for me, right, and maybe that's just me.

00:59:25.539 --> 00:59:29.224
Those are the recipes for a great tournament, right?

00:59:29.224 --> 00:59:31.240
I think the red flags are well, we moved.

00:59:31.240 --> 00:59:32.003
We have four teams.

00:59:32.003 --> 00:59:33.860
This one was just added at the last minute.

00:59:33.860 --> 00:59:34.280
You'll kill them.

00:59:34.280 --> 00:59:36.215
You'll kill that team because they were just added.

00:59:36.215 --> 00:59:37.480
There won't be a problem for you.

00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:41.722
We just had to fill it and yeah, it's gonna be three days and we have t-shirts.

00:59:41.722 --> 00:59:43.862
We're gonna get a t-shirt at the end of the tournament.

00:59:43.862 --> 00:59:44.684
Thanks for coming.

00:59:44.684 --> 00:59:45.798
Everybody gets a trophy.

00:59:45.798 --> 00:59:47.340
Those are the red flag ones for me.

00:59:47.340 --> 00:59:49.219
I wanted to throw that to you guys too.

00:59:49.219 --> 00:59:56.963
Is there any other red flags we should look for as parents, coaches or managers for maybe cash grab tournaments or things?

00:59:56.963 --> 00:59:59.682
You've seen that you need to run from that tournament immediately.

01:00:01.394 --> 01:00:04.063
Well, I think again it goes back to communication.

01:00:04.063 --> 01:00:09.260
If nobody writes you back and you're the contact, that's a red flag right.

01:00:09.260 --> 01:00:18.297
If you're not getting things by the deadlines of when they say and there's no information, like no follow-up, those are them, that's scary.

01:00:18.297 --> 01:00:24.663
The most important thing is, too, is the communication, and I say pack your patience, love it.

01:00:24.663 --> 01:00:26.286
I love that, that's great.

01:00:26.365 --> 01:00:29.940
Pack your patience yeah that's something I'm gonna steal, right.

01:00:30.021 --> 01:00:31.204
Remember to be nice.

01:00:31.204 --> 01:00:35.681
I mean this whole last week, on all of our social media, we thanked everyone involved in hockey.

01:00:35.681 --> 01:00:45.204
We thanked the rink staff, we thanked the rinks, we thanked the pro shops, we thanked the snack bar, we snaked the parents, the team managers, everyone.

01:00:45.204 --> 01:00:46.739
Right, it takes the players.

01:00:46.918 --> 01:00:47.581
They're working together.

01:00:47.581 --> 01:00:47.902
The refs.

01:00:48.755 --> 01:01:02.083
They don't know who's having a hard time Like over the years there's been crazy stories of I don't wanna say anything because I don't wanna get up like Tiri, but families who had a serious accident and they're coming to the tournament.

01:01:02.083 --> 01:01:03.860
The rest of the team comes and plays in the tournament.

01:01:03.860 --> 01:01:15.699
That's something like telling the other team like hey, let's remember to be good sports, but also just remember to pack your patience when you're waiting in line, when you're trying to figure something out Because it makes it easier.

01:01:15.699 --> 01:01:17.101
As Mike said, the gap greeter.

01:01:17.101 --> 01:01:18.721
I used to work at the gap.

01:01:18.721 --> 01:01:19.818
I was a gap manager.

01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:20.822
There you go, perfect.

01:01:21.094 --> 01:01:21.878
So I understand the whole.

01:01:21.878 --> 01:01:22.440
You know what I mean.

01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:24.561
Customer service is it for that too.

01:01:24.561 --> 01:01:30.364
It's smile, and as a parent, player or whatever, just smile, walk in the rink and smile have a good time.

01:01:30.364 --> 01:01:33.418
If they think, say hi, you'd be surprised what's gonna come your way?

01:01:33.954 --> 01:01:35.621
You're not having fun in Nashville anyway.

01:01:35.621 --> 01:01:37.481
I don't understand how we could be not full at all.

01:01:37.481 --> 01:01:41.458
Maybe, watching DC I could see a little stress, but I'd be for Nashville.

01:01:41.914 --> 01:01:43.641
Depends if it's an election year, Mike, to be sure.

01:01:45.074 --> 01:01:46.079
That one goes Friday.

01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:47.199
Everybody's in a good mood.

01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:53.355
Saturday starts to get a little more attention Sunday, because everything's about the final.

01:01:53.536 --> 01:01:54.117
Yeah, championship.

01:01:54.117 --> 01:01:56.458
I would add something.

01:01:56.458 --> 01:02:10.018
Just a red flag is if you have access to the results and you look across not just one division but several divisions and you start seeing that one team that's blowing everybody out, and it's not just.

01:02:10.018 --> 01:02:17.681
you know there is a division here and there that that happens, but if you see a lot of high scores and then you see a lot of divisions where there's a team that's dominating.

01:02:17.681 --> 01:02:28.003
It says that they're not selectively trying to get the teams as tight as possible, and that is hard to do, but I think that's a red flag as well.

01:02:28.215 --> 01:02:29.340
That would mean one more.

01:02:29.340 --> 01:02:32.019
Yeah, I just forgot what it was.

01:02:32.019 --> 01:02:35.766
Oh, if there are no local teams in that tournament.

01:02:35.994 --> 01:02:38.902
Ooh, that's a good one to think about too, I mean unless it's an elite, which we're not.

01:02:38.974 --> 01:02:39.577
But you know what I mean.

01:02:39.577 --> 01:02:42.139
If there's no local teams, why are the locals not?

01:02:42.139 --> 01:02:42.661
Are no?

01:02:42.702 --> 01:02:43.083
locals.

01:02:43.083 --> 01:02:46.559
They know not to show up right, like no.

01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:48.405
I think these are great things to look for.

01:02:48.405 --> 01:02:54.259
And then again, above all, it's about having fun at these things, even at the AAA level.

01:02:54.259 --> 01:02:56.204
If you're not having fun, what are you doing?

01:02:56.204 --> 01:03:12.005
And like, I'll say this, I'll put this out there I cannot think of one game or one tournament ever played where someone's entire career was based on that one thing.

01:03:12.005 --> 01:03:13.027
All right.

01:03:13.027 --> 01:03:15.501
If you wanna quote unquote, make it.

01:03:15.501 --> 01:03:23.900
It's the culmination of many, many years together in a lot of different things to get to an elite level tournament or a fun tournament, right.

01:03:23.900 --> 01:03:36.436
I think we gotta remember that when we walk in that even if it's a high level AAA showcase for colleges, you know if, look, I'm a coach, I would never recruit a kid on one game Like alone.

01:03:36.436 --> 01:03:38.403
I'm saying I would look at the body of work.

01:03:38.403 --> 01:03:42.742
I'm not saying you can't show up in a game and impress me and then stand out.

01:03:42.742 --> 01:03:43.538
Of course you can.

01:03:43.538 --> 01:03:48.260
But I'm looking at everything the parents, I'm looking at the family, I'm looking at the body of work.

01:03:48.260 --> 01:03:49.820
Where did they come from right?

01:03:49.820 --> 01:03:51.000
Where did you play when you were a kid?

01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:52.940
And I think that we can forget that.

01:03:52.940 --> 01:03:55.239
That too much rides on this or that.

01:03:55.239 --> 01:04:00.302
The idea that the only way to have fun at a tournament is to win.

01:04:00.302 --> 01:04:01.760
Winning is very fun.

01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:08.181
I'll be the first to say that I love winning, all right, but it's not the whole thing when you go to a tournament at a destination.

01:04:08.181 --> 01:04:13.514
Now, the way I wanna close out this episode we're talking about the red flags.

01:04:13.514 --> 01:04:25.041
I'd love to hear from both of you just your favorite story from a tournament Like the most heartwarming thing you had seen at a tournament that you love, that really major week, major month, major year.

01:04:25.041 --> 01:04:38.264
Let's end on that, because I think a lot of those moments happen too, when you see things like kids from two different teams shaking hands, or a team that just lost and a kid consoling them, or just a team that didn't win a game having a great time.

01:04:38.264 --> 01:04:41.277
What's your favorite stories from the tournaments that you've run?

01:04:41.277 --> 01:04:41.318
I?

01:04:42.179 --> 01:04:42.882
wanna go first you.

01:04:42.902 --> 01:04:43.583
You wanna go ahead?

01:04:43.583 --> 01:04:44.184
I'm gonna go first.

01:04:44.894 --> 01:04:47.523
Well, we're supporters of the underdog always.

01:04:47.523 --> 01:04:56.059
I just you got a route for the team that's having the hard time and so that showed out Olympic skills competition so many times.

01:04:56.059 --> 01:05:01.516
So it's not one specific one, but I remember the first time it happened because it's staying with us, the team.

01:05:01.516 --> 01:05:09.322
They didn't win, but they won first place in the Olympic skills competition and they got gold medal and they got their crown.

01:05:09.322 --> 01:05:10.775
And do you know what I mean?

01:05:10.775 --> 01:05:13.360
But they're like we didn't win the tournament but we got this.

01:05:13.635 --> 01:05:15.603
Yeah, that's special.

01:05:15.603 --> 01:05:24.942
Yeah, and again, I love, I love that there's a multiple ways to see that right Because, like you know, one of the things going on right now in America, the NBA has that in season tournament and I love it.

01:05:24.942 --> 01:05:28.204
I love it because I think it adds some spice to the league.

01:05:28.204 --> 01:05:29.298
I think it adds some spice to the.

01:05:29.298 --> 01:05:30.322
There's another chance to win.

01:05:30.322 --> 01:05:34.523
This is something that happens regularly in Europe, by the way, that there's multiple chances to win.

01:05:34.523 --> 01:05:42.958
Right In America, we're all about the one big victory, and so I love that a team can come there and say, yeah, but no, we did this, we did this.

01:05:42.958 --> 01:05:44.277
That's a great story.

01:05:45.161 --> 01:05:45.481
How about you?

01:05:45.481 --> 01:05:48.563
I think I got a couple real quick ones.

01:05:48.563 --> 01:05:53.739
One is you know during the screening process finding that team.

01:05:53.739 --> 01:06:08.581
So if you just look at my hockey rankings, I think you're far from the results that you want when you dive down into the leagues and understand what league they play in and how those leagues compare across the board and where those teams fall.

01:06:08.581 --> 01:06:11.538
So my point is you find that team that's sitting at the bottom.

01:06:11.538 --> 01:06:13.364
They've lost every game.

01:06:13.364 --> 01:06:17.940
But you've got one team that's lost every game by one or two or three goals.

01:06:17.940 --> 01:06:18.898
They're competitive.

01:06:18.898 --> 01:06:22.981
The team that's losing by eight, nine, 10 goals, you drop them down a bracket.

01:06:22.981 --> 01:06:24.579
They come to the tournament.

01:06:24.579 --> 01:06:30.661
They either win it or they just they've won three games or two games where they've lost all their games for the season.

01:06:30.661 --> 01:06:34.260
That is a great experience and that's what we're trying to.

01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:41.023
You know, facilitate our tournaments is to give those teams an opportunity that they don't have in their league play Right.

01:06:42.835 --> 01:06:43.458
Yeah, no, we love.

01:06:43.458 --> 01:06:44.782
I mean, and that's, that's a great.

01:06:44.782 --> 01:06:47.643
I mean that just shows what you're doing.

01:06:47.643 --> 01:06:52.262
You know, from your side you're not just taking a check and saying, okay, where do you want to play?

01:06:52.262 --> 01:06:54.621
Oh, we want to play in the highest division or the lowest division.

01:06:54.621 --> 01:06:55.503
Okay, great, you're in.

01:06:55.503 --> 01:06:56.224
See you later.

01:06:56.224 --> 01:06:58.822
You know you'll get an email from us, you know, in a month.

01:06:58.822 --> 01:07:11.315
But let me ask you a real quick question because, based off of the good things that the like, so a red flag to me would be never seeing an organization go back to a tournament that they went to Like.

01:07:11.315 --> 01:07:12.675
Do you guys have multiple like?

01:07:12.675 --> 01:07:15.217
You have organizations that come every single year to your tournaments?

01:07:15.855 --> 01:07:18.380
Yes, yeah for sure.

01:07:18.775 --> 01:07:19.215
Like to me.

01:07:19.215 --> 01:07:21.862
To me, that's like I want to see organization A.

01:07:21.862 --> 01:07:33.159
It's like the pilgrimage every year that they're going to send their sport team and their might team is going to be at your tournament and you just pencil it in like, oh yep, they'll be here every year.

01:07:33.159 --> 01:07:35.822
They're not just shopping around, they're coming.

01:07:35.822 --> 01:07:41.358
And this is like a place where I think, like if I'm a family member of a kid that's coming from like learn to play.

01:07:41.358 --> 01:07:44.722
I'm like, oh my God, in two years we get to go to Nashville and we get to go to this tournament.

01:07:44.722 --> 01:07:45.505
And this is the experience.

01:07:45.505 --> 01:07:50.784
I see all the kids walking around with their crab hats and their you know, their cowboy hats.

01:07:50.784 --> 01:08:03.657
Like to me, that is a you know, a piece that I want to see as a hockey organization that, well, we're sending our kids to the same tournament that's successful every year, whether we win or lose.

01:08:03.657 --> 01:08:07.838
But you know we're in there and obviously these parents are coming back with this great experience.

01:08:08.614 --> 01:08:09.378
For Nashville.

01:08:09.378 --> 01:08:12.041
We're going to give a shout out to the St Peter's hockey.

01:08:12.041 --> 01:08:15.784
They send as many kids, as many eight U teams as we can accept.

01:08:15.784 --> 01:08:17.822
So I think they are up to seven or eight.

01:08:17.822 --> 01:08:23.740
We had to stop and they're on the wait list because there's more than St Peter's, there's also Chesterfield.

01:08:23.740 --> 01:08:25.337
But we'll give a shout out to St Peter's.

01:08:25.337 --> 01:08:29.637
The Queen City Royals always sends a bunch of teams to our Maryland end.

01:08:29.637 --> 01:08:37.407
The other cool thing is our local teams Navy Bowie, tri City, maryland Junior Black players.

01:08:37.407 --> 01:08:42.539
They're all coming to the two here but they're going to Nashville now and they picked us over.

01:08:42.539 --> 01:08:47.520
There's a tournament almost every weekend in Nashville but they picked to come to ours because they've had that experience.

01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:52.860
So that's a another you know claim to the Testament of the that they like what we did.

01:08:53.055 --> 01:08:58.203
Carolina Junior Hurricanes is another one that consistently comes to our tournaments.

01:08:58.515 --> 01:08:59.739
And both Nashville and.

01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:00.081
DC.

01:09:01.997 --> 01:09:05.541
Yeah, to me that's like I know, you know, like I know organizations that just go to.

01:09:05.541 --> 01:09:11.645
They go to Can-Am every year and it's it's one weekend and that's what they do and I think you know there's an.

01:09:11.645 --> 01:09:21.618
Obviously there's enough organizations around, but I love the fact that you know you guys are seeing those repeat organizations, not just the teams, and then it becomes that destination place for your teams to go into.

01:09:21.618 --> 01:09:22.822
Awesome.

01:09:23.935 --> 01:09:29.940
And a story that I remember there was a couple of things I was going to share with you is my tournament director.

01:09:29.940 --> 01:09:31.386
It's six AM in the morning.

01:09:31.386 --> 01:09:32.117
He calls me.

01:09:32.117 --> 01:09:33.743
He says I think we got a problem.

01:09:33.743 --> 01:09:35.841
The alarm is going off at the rink.

01:09:35.841 --> 01:09:39.341
I'm like what I said go in and see what's going on.

01:09:39.341 --> 01:09:42.744
He goes all the way to the back to find the rink manager.

01:09:42.744 --> 01:09:47.141
He's up in the rafters pounding with a hammer on some pipes.

01:09:47.141 --> 01:09:49.460
Don't know what he was doing.

01:09:49.460 --> 01:09:59.925
He probably knows all the bugs at the rinks, but the one rink, the compressor went down, oh no, starting to take water because it was overnight.

01:09:59.925 --> 01:10:01.498
So now we show up.

01:10:01.498 --> 01:10:04.140
You've got a whole sheet that you're like what are we going to do?

01:10:04.140 --> 01:10:08.003
And Whitney had mentioned the Maryland Junior Black Bears.

01:10:08.003 --> 01:10:12.481
Nelson Burton happened to be at the rink and I said Nelson, we got an issue here.

01:10:12.481 --> 01:10:13.940
Is there any ice over at Piney?

01:10:13.940 --> 01:10:16.582
That's where his team plays out of.

01:10:16.582 --> 01:10:22.320
He made some phone calls and before he knew it we were rescheduling the games and all worked out.

01:10:22.320 --> 01:10:24.140
We didn't even get behind by the end of the day.

01:10:25.515 --> 01:10:30.240
That is an amazing amount of teamwork and generosity there, because you don't see that too often.

01:10:30.240 --> 01:10:33.563
That's your problem, that's your mentality.

01:10:33.563 --> 01:10:41.122
And I love hearing things like that because at the end of the day and this is kind of the whole order of the show it takes a village for all of this stuff.

01:10:41.122 --> 01:10:49.280
And, brian, when you tell a story like that, the thing I always like to echo back to the audience is like the kids see that.

01:10:49.280 --> 01:10:52.462
The kids see the adults working together.

01:10:52.462 --> 01:10:54.082
We're always on the kids for working together.

01:10:54.082 --> 01:10:56.484
We don't work together so well all the time as adults.

01:10:56.484 --> 01:11:01.680
So when you see adults working together, you see something organized well, kids pick up on that stuff.

01:11:01.680 --> 01:11:05.560
I remember I had a good time and as a parent gives you the ability as a coach.

01:11:05.560 --> 01:11:08.283
Well, yeah, it was a really organized tournament.

01:11:08.283 --> 01:11:09.104
They really did a good job.

01:11:09.104 --> 01:11:12.380
You see what it's like when you organize and you plan ahead and you do all these things.

01:11:12.380 --> 01:11:15.762
I mean there's a lesson in that alone.

01:11:15.762 --> 01:11:25.542
But I gotta tell you both God bless you because while there's a lot of positives and, I'm sure, a lot of negatives, you two have been doing this for a long time successfully.

01:11:25.542 --> 01:11:29.822
Like what you just said about the teams will travel now to your destinations.

01:11:29.822 --> 01:11:32.301
I think that tells the audience everything they need to know.

01:11:32.301 --> 01:11:36.920
So, look, we could keep going on for probably another hour here, but we're out of time.

01:11:36.920 --> 01:11:52.524
So, above all, I wanna thank you both for coming on here today, because it's been really insightful, but we got to dive into the kind of like the behind the curtain of how these tournaments run, and I know I'm walking away with why I need to look for that more often too, and I need to think about this as well.

01:11:52.524 --> 01:11:54.780
So, again, thank you guys for being here today.

01:11:55.582 --> 01:11:57.600
Thanks for having us, and that's one thing we do too.

01:11:57.600 --> 01:11:59.742
We tell people to contact us and ask questions.

01:11:59.742 --> 01:12:00.524
Just ask questions.

01:12:00.524 --> 01:12:01.438
I wanna know more.

01:12:01.438 --> 01:12:06.780
I've got a question about this, and especially those first year team managers, we say you are not bothering us.

01:12:06.780 --> 01:12:08.942
We answer every question.

01:12:09.234 --> 01:12:10.099
That's another rarity.

01:12:10.099 --> 01:12:17.661
This is the answer you are bothering me is usually what people hear back, so I love that that you're down for that and I didn't mean to interrupt you.

01:12:17.661 --> 01:12:19.239
I'm sorry, but like 100%.

01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:25.826
And then, if I'm not mistaken, it's showdowntornamentscom, correctly for people.

01:12:25.826 --> 01:12:30.640
If you wanna look this up, you might get an influx now with teams after this episode of like well, when's the next?

01:12:30.640 --> 01:12:31.697
Yeah, when's?

01:12:31.697 --> 01:12:32.439
The next tournament.

01:12:33.914 --> 01:12:36.122
And Whitney had mentioned my father's letter.

01:12:36.122 --> 01:12:39.185
It's up on the wall behind over Whitney's shoulder.

01:12:39.185 --> 01:12:44.582
If you're watching showdowntornamentscom and click on information.

01:12:44.582 --> 01:12:47.581
Well, gene Harrington, gene Harrington, you'll be able to read that.

01:12:48.342 --> 01:12:48.784
Absolutely.

01:12:48.784 --> 01:12:50.841
I'm gonna say it again showdowntornamentscom.

01:12:50.841 --> 01:12:55.780
Obviously, go check that out just to see how they do things, especially if you're a tournament director out there.

01:12:55.780 --> 01:13:10.162
These two in this family have been doing this right for a very, very long time and the focus again is on the kids and having a wonderful experience, and the hockey kind of comes second to that, and I think that that's the right prioritization.

01:13:10.162 --> 01:13:12.939
Anytime you're looking for a tournament or, as you guys said, I love the turnication.

01:13:12.939 --> 01:13:15.600
We'll have to do a song for that one.

01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:18.801
But, guys, thanks so much for being here today on the show.

01:13:19.543 --> 01:13:20.265
Thanks for having us.

01:13:20.265 --> 01:13:21.158
Thank you very much.

01:13:21.875 --> 01:13:24.560
All right, that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Playahockey.

01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:27.940
Remember all of the episodes are available wherever you listen to podcasts.

01:13:27.940 --> 01:13:38.381
Make sure to check out showdowntornamentscom, look at that letter, look at that website and remember if you can give us that five star review or subscribe wherever you're listening, it helps us out a lot.

01:13:38.381 --> 01:13:42.380
So, for Mike Benelli and our friends from Showdown Hockey, we'll see you next time on Our Kids Playahockey.

01:13:42.380 --> 01:13:46.462
We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Playahockey.

01:13:46.462 --> 01:13:55.662
Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value, wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network or our website, ourkidsplayhockeycom.

01:13:55.662 --> 01:14:00.743
Also, make sure to check out our children's book when Hockey Stops at whenhockeystopscom.

01:14:00.743 --> 01:14:05.399
It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life.

01:14:05.399 --> 01:14:06.502
We're very proud of it.

01:14:06.502 --> 01:14:10.819
But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Playahockey and we'll see you on the next episode.

01:14:10.819 --> 01:14:14.462
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