Sept. 9, 2023

When Should Parents Retreat from Coaching Youth Hockey?

Ever wondered when it's the right time for a parent to step back from coaching their child's sports team? Mike and Lee dig into this pressing question, examining how family dynamics, team requirements, and the individual experiences of the child factor in. We specifically dissect the controversies around the 12U mark, pondering the pros and cons of continued parental involvement in coaching.

We also venture into the realm of autonomy in youth sports. The spotlight here is on the evolving game of hockey, the growing necessity for qualified coaches at all levels, and the intense pressure of travel schedules for younger teams. We underscore the importance of fostering independence in children and allowing them to take charge of their sporting journey. In the latter part of our discussion, we delve into the not-so-pleasant aspects of parent coaching, such as nepotism and favoritism, and how they can impact a child's development.

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00:51 - When Should a Parent Stop Coaching?

09:52 - Coaching and Autonomy in Youth Sports

17:01 - Parent Coaches in Youth Sports

27:32 - The Importance of Diversity in Coaching

37:57 - Parent Coaches in Youth Hockey

WEBVTT

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Great topic today brought to you by our Facebook group, our Kids Play Hockey.

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This was an anonymous reader.

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Put it on.

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There is when should a parent stop coaching?

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What age should a parent stop coaching?

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So, mike and I dive into this today fully Also start of the hockey season and we really appreciate all of your love.

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We have just had the greatest month we've had in the history of this podcast Most listens in one day, most listens in one week, most listens in one month and that is because of you.

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Thank you so much for helping us find success with this show, and here we go.

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Let's dive into the episode with Mike and I about what age should a parent stop coaching.

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Hello hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey.

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I'm Leo Lies, joined by Mike Benelli, and today we are going to be answering a question that was posted anonymously on our Facebook group, our Kids Play Hockey.

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Make sure you join it.

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If you haven't, you have to answer a couple yes or no questions.

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It's a great group with a lot of great questions, a lot of great conversation.

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Not competition, maybe this competitive conversation, who knows?

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But Mike, someone wrote on an anonymous post asking the question to share their thoughts on when parents coaching their kids should stop.

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So today's episode is going to be how long should a parent coach their kids?

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And, as many of you listening probably know, some of you might have strong opinions on this.

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Some of you might be going.

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It depends.

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We have the great master level coach, mike Benelli, on the air today.

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Mike, let's start with our thoughts on this, and then I'm going to dive into some of the comments that we got on this post because, as I said, it's a little bit around the board, right?

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I think a lot of it depends on location, a lot of it depends on organization, a lot of it depends on experience, right, mike?

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Why don't you share your thoughts on this before we dive in?

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Yeah, so full disclosure, I'm currently coaching my 16-year-old and assistant coach.

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I'm on the bench, though, and I am making an impact, I guess, on the who plays and who doesn't play and the lineup and all that kind of stuff, so there's so many variables to this that I think people get caught up in.

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Well, you're a parent, or you're his dad, or you're his mom, or you're his uncle, or you're on the board, and that's why you're doing it.

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So there's a lot of different variables, but I think, overall, my feeling has always been this, since the day I started coaching, when I didn't have kids the best quality person with the most knowledge that can guide and mentor the players on my team, the best is who I want there Now and then, if I'm a youth organization, can I do that economically?

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Can that dad provide a lot of the things that I want and I get my case?

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Listen, I coach.

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Well, I love coaching.

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I got to go to the rink anyway.

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My son's on the team.

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He's been great at allowing me to coach him.

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That's almost getting that permission to be like.

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Listen, I'm going to be on the bench again this year.

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It's not going to be okay because it's a lot of money.

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I'm going to be going all over the country and I'm not a good guy sitting in the stands, so I mean, for me it's really maybe it's more about me than about him, but again, I think I bring a lot of.

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I think and this is the majority of cases of parent coaching that the parent brings so much to the table that it's only benefiting the other 15, 20 kids on the team at the expense of their kids.

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That's my experience in seeing this more than anything.

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But again, I've never seen it as a hard and fast rule.

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No, parents, they can't coach, they shouldn't be on the bench.

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I think it's really a piece by piece, team by team decision.

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And then how long should they do it?

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Listen, this is youth hockey.

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I mean there's some coaches that have coached their kids in pro right.

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So I think it's.

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I actually just talked to a very prominent Division One coach and his son is going to be going looking at Division One offers and he's like I don't want my kid coming to play for me, but he wants to come play for me and this is at the college, the Division One level.

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So it's really I think you got to look at it family by family in your circumstances.

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But overall I would just say find the best qualified person and keep them on the bench as long as you can.

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Yeah, look and again, as we dive into this, like most things on the show, there's different ways of looking at it.

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I just wrote some notes here.

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Right, there's personal reasons to or not to coach, then there's professional reasons to or not to coach, and they're very, very different realms.

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And then, looking through the comments again, like most things, there's this kind of split around 12 U right Of should it happen or not.

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I think I think everyone kind of unanimously agrees.

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Like you know, squirt might Adams is expected just because you need a lot of volunteers.

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At that age you don't need to have an extremely in depth knowledge of the game, and I think USA Hockey does a really great job of helping new dads, new moms, just kind of say OK, look, you got to get them skating, you got to learn these basic skill sets.

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Here's what a small area game is.

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So I think for the purpose of the episode, we'll just agree now that from from a 12 U down right, I mean, you know again, squirt might Adams, it's somewhat expected and we need those parents to keep the game going.

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It's just almost impossible, at least in the United States, mike, to keep the game going without that.

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We should also note, though we've said this many times on the show you go over to Scandinavia, you go overseas.

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The best coaches are paid to teach that age group because you want your best coaches teaching the new players and that's how you have kind of a hockey developer system.

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Mike, you want to comment on that?

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Yeah, no, it's just the most important time for those kids to develop and their model is they have certified, trained teachers and instructors, and I think that the trainers they call them.

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So I think that's important and, again, if you're in a youth hockey organization, you can do that and not break the bank and understand that development is first.

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Well, and I'll tell you, sometimes it might be apparent you have so many good hockey people in your building, but again, a lot of it, just a lot of it is just you have good people, like they do in Europe, and they're trained and they take your kids Great.

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But we have to be really careful that the system doesn't implode on itself by the fact that you're paying somebody you know $20,000 to be a head coach of a 10-U team.

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We should also note that different countries have different geopolitical systems that probably give a lot of funding to youth sports.

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You give and take with that.

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There's great parts about it, there's drawbacks to that, but at the end of the day, when we look at the youth, the younger youth levels, you always hope that the dad or the mom or the coach is yearning for knowledge.

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One of the things I've really loved over the last three years now is seeing the game from a different point of view.

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I never got to play hockey at that age.

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I didn't start till I was 12.

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So to be able to experience the game through my six almost seven-year-old and my nine almost 10-year-old for the last few years has been really fun.

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And again I'm going to say this again USA Hockey, I think, does a great job of providing the information you would need to be a successful coach.

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Now, when you get to that Pee, wee and Up level, I've got one comment here.

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I won't say the name because I know this person, but I know her kids play in a AAA organization 12 U and Up and they said that there's a cutoff there, that 12 U and Up they actually won't allow parents to coach.

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Now what I'm curious about is this there's a difference between volunteering to be a coach in Adams and then you're getting your coaching certifications and you become a pretty good coach and then you get above 12 U I'm like this is where I'm with you is that I want the right person for the job, I want the best person for the job.

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You're hoping at that age group that a parent can kind of and again, this is where that professional and personal thing comes in kind of separate themselves from that.

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Like I've had conversations with my own kids that, look, I'm your dad, but I'm also the coach and I have responsibilities as the coach that apply to every child on the team.

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It has nothing to do with my love for you, it has nothing to do with how I feel about you, but as the coach, I everyone gets treated the same way in terms of the hockey right.

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So I don't know if if I necessarily agree with there being a hard cutoff of no parent coaches above this age, although I imagine it makes it a lot easier for the organization when it comes down to to to spats or anything like that.

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And it's in my particular situation, you know it, just um, it's really just, it's actually a gift that the organization is giving to me, like they're allowing me to do this and and, and they know like, well Listen, this guy's gonna be in the building.

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How are we not using him?

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And I get the coach now and I'm not I'm not the head coach, so I get to be with a coach that I really like and respect and and I want to learn from and I and I love that I can kind of hand my son off to him right, even at any age.

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I mean, you're always, listen, I'd rather.

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I'd rather be on the guy, I'd rather be on the bench.

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You know row, in the same way than throwing anchors out, you know up in the stands, and I'm not that person anyway, like I just never would be that that person rip it on the coach or rip it on other players.

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But I, in my, in my circumstance, I Almost, like I really go out of my way to treat the other boys on the team Like I want my son treated right.

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So so they're getting the benefit of, I think, in my you know, and maybe I get probably have to ask those parents, but of me saying listen, I'm not gonna sit here and just berate you and yell at you and and and when I was a coach, as when I was a coach of and I didn't have kids and we I think we've talked about this a couple of times on the show is like I was a Completely different person.

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I was a, I was a completely different coach.

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Right, I never, I never appreciated and this is before you know, we didn't have all this other educational pieces and discussions and nobody really talked about what happens when the kids leave the ring Right, and and I never really appreciate the fact that you know those kids are gonna go home to mom and dad and they're hurt and they're disappointed and they're frustrated and they're you know, they, they want answers and I'm like, listen, just, I'm the coach, listen to me, that's all there is to it and, you know, shut your mouth and show for practice.

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So the game's evolved and I think you know, if you can find a good person, that's evolved with it.

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I don't care what level, it is right, you know that that person be on the bench.

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But again, I I've purposely, you know, kind of set back and I didn't even I didn't even really actually even asked to help Until after the team was picked anyway, like I kind of took myself out of the mix.

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Right and smart, we're gonna be, and then I don't want to be involved in the selection process.

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I just want to be in part.

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I just want to be involved in the teaching process right.

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And yeah, you know, and that's what I'm good at and I and I think I could bring a lot of value to that and I think, financially it's just like you know, for me it's like, well, jesus, if I'm gonna be going, all I don't.

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It's crazy.

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I mean, at the 16, 17, 18 level, the amount of traveling these kids do, it's ridiculous, yeah, it's crazy.

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It's crazy, and then you'd be a part of you know, away from your family and family I mean.

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So there's so much that goes into it.

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But you know, to me I don't know if there's a cut-off age.

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I think there's like an age where you want to leave and you want to cut that, not that off.

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But if it's if the, if the staffs just not there, then I don't think there is a cut-off age, I think what I would say.

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There's an age of consideration, right where it's like okay, who do we have in the mix that can coach at this level If we need them to?

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Like you said, if they're not there, you have to have someone volunteer to coach, right?

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You know, if there's a qualified parent versus a 19 year old that just wants to get into coaching, you know I want the parent to teach the 19 year old to so forth and so on, right?

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By the way, I also want to echo what you said, because I know I've get this question a lot with with my friends and squirt and might about To travel at the AAA 18.

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You, it's insane, it's like an NHL travel schedule.

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It's just less games.

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I mean, you're all over the country, it's it's.

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It's pretty insane.

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So you know I'm with you, mike, you want to have some control over that, alright.

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Next next comment here from Sarah says my husband has been coaching our son since 8u.

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He is also a 14u major now and my husband has decided to pull away and stop coaching so our son can have his quote-unquote time away from family with his buddies and with his space.

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It's hard because our son seems to enjoy that out there, but really don't know if he's just saying that and we want him to form some independence and autonomy.

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And then she says you know to figure out what's right.

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There's no right answer and you know it's interesting because I feel like I'm at that place a little bit now.

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So again, just to reorientate everybody, I've got two kids playing, one's first-year might, now once first-year squirt.

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So now I have to make a choice.

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Right now I'm in this position where, okay, I can't, can't be involved with both teams.

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So luckily, my son's 10u team, the coaching staff, was set.

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It was and I had full respect for that.

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I'm not gonna push my way into a situation where I'm not being asked to right.

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So I love it because my son is now in a position when he has to have that autonomy and I also think it was a position where I needed to pull back a little bit and let him have his space.

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I was feeling that that's the, that's the personal reason right now.

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With that said, my daughter who's the might Is like will you come coach me?

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Will you help out?

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And you know I told of course I'll help out, because I did that for my son I also might you know this right, you don't want ever one kid to think, well, why do you only coach with that team and not my team, right?

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So I kind of had it set before the season that I was going to help out my daughter's team because because I did that for my son and I would like to do that for my daughter also.

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My son, who's older, like he can handle it now, like, like that, that was part of the job.

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Right for me was, hey, you can go do it yourself now.

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So I think that that's.

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It's an interesting comment, because, again, when you look at the personal reason, you know it, I don't care how qualified I am.

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If my kid wants some space, I gotta respect that right.

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Because I think, mike, later on if you don't respect that both ways, obviously it can be really detrimental to your relationship with your own kid and I don't want that to happen.

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Yeah, listen, I sat around these, you know these, these, these, all these AAA, you know showcases and tournaments and rinks and and, and you know the dads in the stands are all you know, pro coaches, college coaches, right, and that coach and their kid, like they're just, they're just like, listen, you're the coach, and those are the best parents.

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Parents of the coaches are the best parents, I think I mean most of the time they're like you know.

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So I do, listen, I get, I get a lot of benefits out of coaching because you know, but I and I, and I really do, I think I like, I don't think, I know that the parents most wouldn't even know my son was on the team, unless I, you know.

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The only reason they know is because we have the same last name.

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But they don't know, you know, I don't, you know, I don't.

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It's just, you know, at the detriment of him probably is like, listen, I'm as easy and hard on all of them the same, but at the same time, you know you, you mentioned it about your little guys.

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So you know, it's funny, we had a.

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So the kids that I coach now are all getting their licenses right.

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They're all getting like permits and licensing, and so they're really at the point right now we're over the course of the year to now and the end of the year a lot of them will get their license and drive on their own.

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And the greatest comment I heard, I think, all weekend, was the one mom telling her son like hey, it isn't going to be great, you're going to get to drive yourself to the rink and go to practice on your own.

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And he's like I'm going to miss, I'm going to miss driving to the rink with dad.

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You know like, and then and then, and I'm like, I'm like, did he start crying?

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Like when did he start crying about that?

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Like I was like how come I can't get that.

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Nobody's saying that about me.

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So I mean, I think it's just, you know it all depends on your relationship.

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That's a big thing too.

00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:22.855
Like, when should you step down?

00:16:22.855 --> 00:16:25.138
Well, a lot of it's the relationship with your kid.

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If it's affecting your relationship in a negative way, then obviously, you know we always hear the horror stories.

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You know, maybe I'll get it someday too is like oh, my God, I hate it.

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Like I, but I'm always like for me, I check in a lot, but when you got to know your, you got to know your family and you got to know your situation.

00:16:46.120 --> 00:17:10.961
And I think, more and more importantly, if you are that coach is going to continue to coach your son or daughter through you know, over 12, you 14, you 16, you, then you better be articulating this to the other families about why you're doing it, how important it is for them to understand that you want to help everyone and how you can be the biggest benefit to their kid, you know, and to their player.

00:17:10.961 --> 00:17:22.364
So you know, if you're going to be, you know, and honestly, if I was coaching right now, like if I was back in coaching a professional team, a prep school team, a college team, I wouldn't have the time to coach.

00:17:22.364 --> 00:17:23.595
I just happened to have the time to coach.

00:17:23.595 --> 00:17:24.814
So that's you know.

00:17:24.814 --> 00:17:27.053
You know, neither here nor there, I don't know how to even.

00:17:27.053 --> 00:17:39.758
You know, just like I'm here, I'm coaching, I like to coach, I'm available, I'm going to, I'd like to do it Now if I was, if I had, you know, because I'm a, that's how I define myself, it's what I do for every day, right?

00:17:39.758 --> 00:17:53.761
If I was an accountant or a stockbroker and I happen to coach my kid, maybe, maybe that's a different situation for those people because at some point you want to give them, you know, back again to the best qualified person that's going to advance them at the highest level.

00:17:53.761 --> 00:18:08.663
And if you know, mike Sullivan lost his job tomorrow and his kid was a 16 year old, I would ask my Sullivan to get on the bench with me, right, if, if, if, if this person was on my you know, you see it all the time.

00:18:08.663 --> 00:18:14.141
You know, ron Brindamore's son played for Quinnipiac University this year, right.

00:18:14.141 --> 00:18:22.238
And if Rod Brindamore lost his job during the season, I think Rand Pectall will call him up and be like hey, why don't you, why don't you come to the staff?

00:18:22.238 --> 00:18:24.676
I mean, you know, because you just find the best people.

00:18:25.558 --> 00:18:27.355
Yeah, I think you also make a point.

00:18:27.355 --> 00:18:29.432
You and I are outliers in this right, like we're.

00:18:29.432 --> 00:18:36.239
We're very unique examples in the way we approach it, because this is what we do for a living right, but, like you said, the accountant right, that doesn't do it for a living.

00:18:36.239 --> 00:18:36.912
That's a great.

00:18:36.912 --> 00:18:41.719
It's a great point you're bringing up here, like I forget to think about that sometimes that, like you know, hockey is what we do.

00:18:41.719 --> 00:18:51.401
So when it comes to you know, the dad that works construction, I mean, or whatever right it does, driveways does, does garage doors, it's a little bit of a different thing.

00:18:51.401 --> 00:18:54.258
The question is too, is you know, how much do you love coaching, right?

00:18:54.258 --> 00:18:58.431
I think there's also a point where it's like, well, I'm doing this because they need a coach to.

00:18:58.431 --> 00:19:01.594
Okay, I need to coach, I want to coach, right?

00:19:01.594 --> 00:19:04.596
You know it brings up a couple couple of funny things too.

00:19:04.596 --> 00:19:09.761
You know we have to bring up the word nepotism here a little bit, because I have been on teams.

00:19:09.761 --> 00:19:16.935
I have worked on teams where there is a parent and a kid and it is clear that that kid is getting favorability from their parent.

00:19:16.935 --> 00:19:19.497
It's a very hard situation.

00:19:19.497 --> 00:19:24.126
There's not much you can do, you know, and then commiserating happens.

00:19:24.126 --> 00:19:27.090
And why is that kid getting more ice time than everybody else Else?

00:19:27.090 --> 00:19:31.157
Excuse me, you know, typically the kid is very talented at that point.

00:19:31.157 --> 00:19:37.742
But as a dad I don't want to put my own kid in that position right, where they're having to deal with this.

00:19:37.742 --> 00:19:41.097
Not the kid's fault, right, it's not anybody's fault.

00:19:41.097 --> 00:19:41.961
That's not the right word.

00:19:41.961 --> 00:19:50.071
But it's like I actually don't want to be in a position where people are going to be giving my own kid any flack because I'm the coach right Now.

00:19:50.071 --> 00:19:52.111
Granted, I haven't had that yet and the parents?

00:19:52.111 --> 00:19:58.695
I've been very blessed so far in my kids' youth hockey journey that all the parents have been fantastic.

00:19:58.695 --> 00:19:59.914
I've just had no pushback.

00:19:59.914 --> 00:20:02.057
But it's just something to think about, right?

00:20:02.057 --> 00:20:05.297
You know I always talk about putting ego aside, go ahead.

00:20:05.518 --> 00:20:15.006
Right and honestly I've seen it worse, not as a dad coach, but the nepotism of the country club friend, Like honestly I've seen coaches that they're not you know they're not.

00:20:15.006 --> 00:20:19.076
They're not the dad on the bench, they just happen to be friends with all the other parents.

00:20:19.076 --> 00:20:19.959
That's worse.

00:20:19.959 --> 00:20:30.615
I think it's because it to me it's like, oh well, of course this kid's playing, like I watch it all the time, like, oh, they're playing because you know they made the team, because they're buddies and they're that's what they.

00:20:30.615 --> 00:20:31.358
They hang out together.

00:20:31.358 --> 00:20:35.480
Oh, every weekend on Facebook they're fishing together or they're playing golf or like.

00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:37.280
And then you wonder why the kids getting you know extra.

00:20:37.280 --> 00:20:51.895
Or or the worst is like the nonparent coach that has a private lesson skating and stick handling clinic that he makes the kids go to and like I said, hey, you, you're going to play for me, you better show up at these clinics, you better show up these extra things and pay me and I'm going to tell you how good you are.

00:20:51.895 --> 00:20:53.434
And then it's just a bad cycle.

00:20:53.434 --> 00:21:01.781
So again, it's all the circumstances you're in If you have a pro coach, take the dad out, find me the best person, right.

00:21:01.781 --> 00:21:11.573
And if you find me the best person that happens to have a kid that can make the team on their own and play and be a competent contributor to the organization, great.

00:21:11.573 --> 00:21:19.779
In my case again, it's a little different, but like there's no coach that does what I do for a 16 year old team on, that's apparent.

00:21:19.779 --> 00:21:28.815
So you know, between video and teaching and education, and you know, making sure my podcast gets gets shared, you know on a daily basis.

00:21:28.815 --> 00:21:34.818
You know all that stuff is just at some point, yes, you have to let the kids go.

00:21:34.818 --> 00:21:58.282
I get it a hundred percent and I and I and I, me and I think a lot of guys I know, and girls that coach their kids through like kind of the high school level, are probably doing it because that's just what they do for that's what they do, right, and they're not going out of their way to say, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to jump in here because you know I, you know I've nothing better to do.

00:21:58.282 --> 00:22:04.380
Like, I trust me, I'd much rather be able to hand my son off and be with and I've done that.

00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:05.303
I think I've done that.

00:22:05.303 --> 00:22:14.179
I think I've handed him off to another human being that I trust and I can support and I feel like another pair, like I really try to be, like in the game ends.

00:22:14.179 --> 00:22:15.392
I try to be a parent, I try to go.

00:22:15.392 --> 00:22:18.576
You know I try to yeah, I don't want to be like you know.

00:22:18.576 --> 00:22:23.257
I even asked the people like, don't call me, coach Benelli, like I'm, you know I'm helping.

00:22:23.257 --> 00:22:26.309
I want to be on the inside track to help your kids right?

00:22:26.871 --> 00:22:28.556
And I can do that because I kind of have us.

00:22:28.796 --> 00:22:31.913
I have an inside, just been inside information, like I can help you.

00:22:31.913 --> 00:22:36.529
You know I can help you because I know that you're all our kids, because our kids are all the same.

00:22:36.529 --> 00:22:39.760
They're all struggling at 14, 15, 16 years old.

00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:41.749
So help them all, that's all.

00:22:41.749 --> 00:22:43.093
I look at it and I think a parent comes.

00:22:43.093 --> 00:22:45.941
Parent is a whole different perspective.

00:22:45.941 --> 00:22:46.811
They really are.

00:22:46.811 --> 00:22:47.252
Then.

00:22:47.252 --> 00:23:02.584
Then then some guy who's coaching your kids at 16, Doesn't have kids, doesn't understand what happens when they go home, doesn't understand about girls, doesn't understand about the stresses of of academics, doesn't understand the stresses of the home life, because they don't most.

00:23:02.584 --> 00:23:05.172
I'm gonna say in all a lot, don't care.

00:23:05.172 --> 00:23:07.938
Show up at the rink, do your job, go home.

00:23:07.938 --> 00:23:10.564
That's my extent of my relationship with you.

00:23:10.564 --> 00:23:18.471
I think when you're a dad or a mom on the bench, that relationship I think, from where I've seen it, goes deeper.

00:23:18.471 --> 00:23:19.074
Yeah.

00:23:19.074 --> 00:23:29.470
I agree with and if I can, if I can have that, if I can have that relationship, you know, as long as I can, and if I can find people that can do that for me in other organizations, I think that's great.

00:23:29.470 --> 00:23:39.258
I think it's but and and that, and I'm sure we could get, I'm sure we, as we get down to the comments, right, you see him that there are some ugly, ugly incidents.

00:23:39.538 --> 00:23:40.221
No doubt about it.

00:23:40.280 --> 00:23:43.713
There are some times when it's just like what the hell?

00:23:43.713 --> 00:23:44.095
Like I.

00:23:44.095 --> 00:23:44.977
But you know what.

00:23:44.977 --> 00:23:47.041
We've talked about this a million times about picking your team.

00:23:47.041 --> 00:23:51.509
You know that going in, you know that that's gonna be a problem, so you went on that team anyway.

00:23:51.509 --> 00:23:55.373
So I think it's just you know, if you know it's gonna be a problem ahead of time, then don't.

00:23:55.373 --> 00:23:56.277
Don't try out for that team.

00:23:56.578 --> 00:23:58.670
Well, I'll tell you a couple notes on what you just said here.

00:23:58.670 --> 00:23:59.874
I wrote some down, you know.

00:23:59.874 --> 00:24:05.311
Number one is that I am definitely a different coach since having kids and coaching my own kids Then prior.

00:24:05.311 --> 00:24:07.380
I think that's a really important distinction.

00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:12.066
I really enjoy helping young coaches that don't have kids.

00:24:12.066 --> 00:24:13.390
Maybe see that perspective.

00:24:13.390 --> 00:24:19.089
I have no problem being an assistant on a team with a young coach that is open to being mentored.

00:24:19.089 --> 00:24:21.765
I think that that I wish I had had that when I was younger.

00:24:21.765 --> 00:24:24.413
Right, I can also tell you this.

00:24:24.413 --> 00:24:30.585
I've said this a long time ago in a previous episode, but it's so tough to put in words.

00:24:30.585 --> 00:24:33.958
We, you know I care about those kids so much.

00:24:33.958 --> 00:24:36.810
It's not that I care about my kid more, it's.

00:24:36.810 --> 00:24:41.061
It's tough to explain to a parent how much a good coach really cares about your kid.

00:24:41.061 --> 00:24:44.328
It's not just about the hockey and what they do on the, the ice.

00:24:44.328 --> 00:24:55.675
You know when you get to the, when you get to the professional level now we're seeing changes in that, where it used to be all right, you're a cattle and I'm hurting the cattle and I need to win, even now at the pro level, that you have to have a relationship with these players.

00:24:55.675 --> 00:24:57.099
You have to know them and understand them.

00:24:57.099 --> 00:25:02.109
Even though you could trade them right Like you got, there's a whole nother layer to this.

00:25:02.109 --> 00:25:08.963
But one of the things I found crazy was that you know over the last few years like I really, really care about these kids.

00:25:08.963 --> 00:25:11.596
You know I want them to do well, you want them to succeed.

00:25:11.596 --> 00:25:16.250
You see them in the ring after you've coached them How's everything going and you know it's sometimes they're shy, which is okay.

00:25:16.250 --> 00:25:20.309
The next thing you said, mike, that maybe you know I thought about this.

00:25:20.309 --> 00:25:24.410
You know I've had plenty of time now where I have been in the stands and not on the bench.

00:25:24.410 --> 00:25:37.501
You know my first few years was always on the bench because of COVID and you know I think by far one of the greatest compliments I get From people is them just asking me questions in the stands of like, hey, what would you do with this situation?

00:25:37.501 --> 00:25:37.912
What would you?

00:25:37.912 --> 00:25:45.184
Because because there's a clear trust that you know I care right and I really don't take those questions for granted.

00:25:45.184 --> 00:25:49.017
When a parent comes up to me and says, hey, what would you do in the situation, it means a lot to me.

00:25:49.017 --> 00:25:54.439
I've also realized and anybody who knows me personally, this will make you laugh.

00:25:54.439 --> 00:26:16.269
But If, for someone who speaks for a living, I'm incredibly quiet when I'm watching a game, even even when my son's in net, I typically Rarely say anything good or bad, right, I remember he made a huge save the other week and everybody should I just kind of Just quiet and the people like but you know, you don't cheer at all and I was like, wow, I don't know how to explain that one.

00:26:16.269 --> 00:26:19.548
I mean, you can't really do that too much on the bench either if you're doing it right.

00:26:19.669 --> 00:26:25.423
Right, so so it was, but I'm going to coach coach mode, where just a little more even healed.

00:26:25.542 --> 00:26:26.250
Yeah, yeah.

00:26:26.250 --> 00:26:45.190
Well, the other thing, too, is that and this is me personally is that my Gauge on my son's play or my gauge on his performance, that's a better word is not Based on saves or, you know, goals against or anything like that same thing with with when they skate out.

00:26:45.190 --> 00:26:48.597
It's not about how many goals did you score, how many assists did you make.

00:26:48.597 --> 00:26:53.538
I know, I note that I see that it's more of how did you conduct yourself as a person?

00:26:53.538 --> 00:26:55.954
Did you, did you work hard the whole game?

00:26:55.954 --> 00:26:58.741
I can tell you right now my proudest moments of my own son.

00:26:58.741 --> 00:27:02.519
I'm very proud when he plays great, don't get me wrong.

00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:13.151
But I'm probably even more proud when he gets, you know, sheldon a game and he never quits right, keeping in mind he's he's under 10, right, it's a little different when it's older, I guess.

00:27:13.151 --> 00:27:13.893
Well, maybe it's not.

00:27:13.893 --> 00:27:26.296
My point is this is that when I see he's not giving up and he's taking care of his teammates, or my daughter, who's young, when a kid gets hurt in Adams, or when she's a might now, she goes to make sure they're okay, that's a really proud moment for me.

00:27:26.296 --> 00:27:27.319
And I've heard parents.

00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:36.173
I'm like whoa, buddy, all right, there's just yes, and a parent one time tell that this is bold, you know what?

00:27:36.173 --> 00:27:37.336
Because kids not getting up.

00:27:37.336 --> 00:27:37.960
It's like whoa.

00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.515
But that's my gauge.

00:27:40.515 --> 00:27:42.340
It doesn't have to be everybody else's gauge.

00:27:42.340 --> 00:27:45.517
I want to read another comment here and I don't want to.

00:27:45.517 --> 00:27:47.162
I don't, I do not want to gloss over this one.

00:27:47.162 --> 00:27:52.702
Christine says I wish more moms were coaching, and I completely agree with her.

00:27:52.702 --> 00:27:57.723
I've been lucky enough in my organization this year, multiple moms coached in our summer league.

00:27:57.723 --> 00:27:59.869
I've seen moms coaching on the bench.

00:27:59.869 --> 00:28:07.582
There's no reason why women should not be invited to coach as much as males, and especially the Adams and the might levels.

00:28:07.582 --> 00:28:09.665
If we're talking about getting into coaching.

00:28:09.665 --> 00:28:13.541
Right, I'd love to see more more women coaching the game of hockey.

00:28:14.490 --> 00:28:15.032
Yeah, I mean it's.

00:28:15.032 --> 00:28:16.055
That's foreign to me.

00:28:16.055 --> 00:28:26.422
Like I said a lot about a lot of things, because I just like, if you want to coach and you played wife where, yeah, yeah, you crazy, your coach, if you coach, you coach.

00:28:26.422 --> 00:28:35.112
You know, and I think some of the best you know, I know, some of the best coaches my kids have had have been women and Men and young guys and young and young girls.

00:28:35.112 --> 00:28:49.381
I got, I run, I do lacrosse clinics every week and our best, our best teachers, which is I don't know, I shouldn't say this to the guys, but the best teachers are the girls that are out there Because they just really have fun.

00:28:49.381 --> 00:28:50.519
There's no expectation, you know.

00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:55.006
There's no like, like, it's not even expectations, they're just more, they're kinder.

00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:57.323
Like they're not yelling.

00:28:57.323 --> 00:28:59.039
You gotta be careful with Mike man.

00:28:59.039 --> 00:28:59.823
I've met some women.

00:28:59.823 --> 00:29:02.080
No, I know, I know they are they're kinder.

00:29:02.516 --> 00:29:07.862
They're kinder to the kids of being like no, no, you're doing great, like that's a really good thing you're doing.

00:29:07.862 --> 00:29:09.280
And the boys too, the high school boys.

00:29:09.280 --> 00:29:12.342
Like they're not jaded, they're not like there's no expectations.

00:29:12.342 --> 00:29:18.281
Like young men and women that are like new to coaching, they're the best coaches sometimes.

00:29:18.281 --> 00:29:26.961
So if I can get a young lady that's just finished playing, a young man who's just finished playing, that's not like, that's not in it for the wrong reasons.

00:29:26.961 --> 00:29:30.680
Like listen, we've talked about this too right, about getting a new coaching job.

00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:32.882
Like the first thing you don't ask is how much does it pay?

00:29:33.535 --> 00:29:34.740
Because when you hear how much it pays.

00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:35.201
You're gonna go.

00:29:35.201 --> 00:29:40.039
Oh God, I don't know if I want to do this and I'm like, yeah, no, you don't want to do this, run away as much as you can.

00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:45.282
But if you're going to do it, do it for the right reasons and do it where you know, if you can, you know.

00:29:45.282 --> 00:29:57.067
So her comment about she was, you know, I don't think it has anything to do with age, I think it has the organizational's, you know, mission and their own kind of pool of candidates.

00:29:57.067 --> 00:29:58.940
But certainly, I mean, I don't.

00:29:58.940 --> 00:30:03.002
I think the game needs more diversity across the board.

00:30:03.002 --> 00:30:07.922
Agreed, and you know, it's always great to if your kids can get different voices.

00:30:07.922 --> 00:30:09.645
We're dealing with it right now.

00:30:09.645 --> 00:30:14.001
We have a couple of dads that coached their kids and now they're kind of handing it off.

00:30:14.001 --> 00:30:16.482
And I was joking.

00:30:16.482 --> 00:30:19.017
I said, yeah, like I'm actually looking forward to doing that.

00:30:19.017 --> 00:30:26.383
You know, after this season I really am Like and I have a 10 year old, so I have my squirt who's at the same question Like, well, aren't you gonna coach my team next year?

00:30:26.383 --> 00:30:30.540
I'm like, well, I can't, I don't times coach anybody and actually I don't even like coaching anymore.

00:30:30.540 --> 00:30:32.099
So probably not, I'm probably gonna retire.

00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:33.064
No, but I and I will.

00:30:33.064 --> 00:30:35.883
I'll jump in, I'll ask if I can help.

00:30:35.883 --> 00:30:36.945
I want to be involved.

00:30:36.945 --> 00:30:44.924
Let me know what I can do and if they'll have me please, and if not, then you know I'm gonna coach in the car.

00:30:44.924 --> 00:30:47.578
You know like against the coach, so better have me on the bench.

00:30:48.755 --> 00:30:51.301
Mike's trying to retire to become a full-time podcasting host.

00:30:51.301 --> 00:30:54.016
Right, the dream, no.

00:30:54.016 --> 00:30:56.436
My comments on this, too is like I'm very proud.

00:30:56.436 --> 00:30:59.806
My son and daughter have a female coach for their school team this year.

00:30:59.806 --> 00:31:02.903
I'm happily assisting her in whatever I can do.

00:31:02.903 --> 00:31:11.021
I think that I should also say this, and I gotta preface this in no way am I wording this like there's permission or anything like that.

00:31:11.021 --> 00:31:15.878
But I actually know a lot of women who just never even thought, oh, I could volunteer for that.

00:31:15.878 --> 00:31:17.938
Right, and I want you to know you can.

00:31:17.938 --> 00:31:18.440
Right.

00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:22.441
It's like if you're interested in helping out and coaching your kids, you can do it.

00:31:22.441 --> 00:31:24.181
This goes for anybody, right.

00:31:24.181 --> 00:31:31.046
It's just, you know, sometimes it's not top of mind, and every female coach I've worked with has been wonderful.

00:31:31.046 --> 00:31:33.923
The other thing, too, is that I have learned.

00:31:33.923 --> 00:31:40.602
Unlike you, mike, I never really cared who it was man, woman, anything in between, you know, race none of that mattered to me.

00:31:40.602 --> 00:31:51.260
You gotta be willing to learn from anybody, and I think that I've learned a lot from especially looking at NCAA programs and professional women coaches.

00:31:51.260 --> 00:31:52.299
They've taught me a lot.

00:31:52.299 --> 00:31:56.321
I've just had my mind open to it, and you know, it makes me think this too.

00:31:56.321 --> 00:32:00.821
I wrote this down and this is true for the whole conversation of just parents coaching.

00:32:00.821 --> 00:32:08.123
When your ego trumps your ability to grow as a coach, you're no longer a coach.

00:32:08.123 --> 00:32:14.842
All right, and Mike, you said this perfectly earlier when you were talking about I was a very drastically different coach when I was younger.

00:32:14.842 --> 00:32:19.898
Exactly, you should have been, and you should be a very drastically different coach probably 15 years from now.

00:32:19.898 --> 00:32:29.083
If you're still coaching when your ego trumps your ability to grow as a coach, you are no longer a coach, right, and that's one of the things about coaching.

00:32:29.083 --> 00:32:32.685
I am obsessed with learning more about coaching.

00:32:32.685 --> 00:32:34.335
I love learning more about coaching.

00:32:34.335 --> 00:32:35.882
I wanna know what different people do.

00:32:35.882 --> 00:32:50.221
I love working with different personalities, people from different backgrounds, with different diverse backgrounds, because I always learn something, and if you look at my resume, you can see I've worked with a lot of crazy different teams that people probably wouldn't think of, and I'm always learning something.

00:32:50.221 --> 00:32:53.661
So I think that you know whether your kid's on the team or not.

00:32:53.661 --> 00:33:01.284
You know if you have a drive to learn to be a better coach, you're gonna probably be in the right place, right?

00:33:01.284 --> 00:33:03.176
I don't think too many of us do it for the money.

00:33:03.176 --> 00:33:04.161
Mike, to your point.

00:33:04.161 --> 00:33:07.906
I mean, most of us don't even get paid for the youth levels.

00:33:09.472 --> 00:33:10.538
Yeah, it's like a wash right.

00:33:10.538 --> 00:33:16.815
I mean, it's like if you get to coach your team and the organization maybe saves some money by getting you and you're a good coach anyway and you can help out in other levels.

00:33:16.815 --> 00:33:27.855
Listen, it's an interesting question and subject that we have to answer as directors and program administrators and then come up with that philosophy.

00:33:27.855 --> 00:33:33.057
And I just, I've always been like a guy who's like don't paint yourself into the corner.

00:33:33.057 --> 00:33:34.515
I mean, I've told the story before.

00:33:34.515 --> 00:33:44.820
You know, in New York, when I was coach, when I was a hockey director, my first year, you know, we had a no parent policy.

00:33:44.820 --> 00:33:48.494
You know, in the youth hockey space and a lot of it had to do with me.

00:33:48.494 --> 00:33:56.255
Right, I'm like, well, I wanna pay my buddies here to coach and you know, I'll get all my college guys, all these guys are gonna be coaching with me.

00:33:56.255 --> 00:33:58.887
I love it and I don't have to answer to any of these parents.

00:33:58.887 --> 00:34:00.757
And we can, you know, isolate ourselves.

00:34:00.757 --> 00:34:03.818
And so the organization's like, yeah, no parent, no parent coaching.

00:34:03.818 --> 00:34:06.835
And all of a sudden, you know, marcel Dion walks in the room with his two kids.

00:34:06.835 --> 00:34:08.235
He's like, hey, can I help out in the ice?

00:34:08.235 --> 00:34:11.380
And the director's like, no, there's no parent coaching.

00:34:11.380 --> 00:34:13.036
I'm looking at him like are you insane?

00:34:13.036 --> 00:34:16.815
Like are you talking about yeah, you can come on the ice?

00:34:16.815 --> 00:34:22.717
I said you're not even only an exception, you're like a wanted resource.

00:34:22.717 --> 00:34:37.039
So I think it all and again and then maybe that goes to you know, the question is are you a head coach, assistant coach, a skills coach, a helper, an advisor, somebody that you want to count on to help with the kids, even though you're a parent?

00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:38.815
Like there's plenty.

00:34:38.815 --> 00:34:39.998
Look at all these kids around the.

00:34:39.998 --> 00:34:44.518
You know the youth hockey landscape right now that are high level executives in the NHL.

00:34:44.518 --> 00:34:45.271
You're not.

00:34:45.271 --> 00:34:49.056