Why Your Kid Should Talk to the Coach (Not You!) - With Communication Expert Jen Fry

Hello hockey friends and families around the world and welcome to another episode of

our kids play hockey. I'm Lee Elias, I'm joined by Mike Bonelli today. Christie Casciano-Burns is on assignments.

 And today's episode is one of the ones that will hit every locker room, car ride, kitchen table, 

anywhere you communicate with your family, your

hockey players, your coaches, the people involved in the game, because our guest

today is Jen Fry, a sports educator, communication strategist, an inclusion consultant

who works with some of the biggest organization in sports and education from the

NCAA to ESPN, a couple names you might have heard of, and the NFL, another name

you might have heard of. Her company, Jen Fry talks, helps athletes, coaches, and

parents understand how communication and awareness can transform not just performance,

but connection, which is a major part of youth sport.

on the team in general. The importance of communication. So I would say, A, it's

critical in helping people, these athletes understand how to advocate for themselves.

You know, I've seen so many times people saying, my kid is on the bench mad

because they're not playing. And I'm like, well, have they asked why they're not

playing? Well, no. Well, they're afraid of repercussions. I'm like, what repercussions,

they're already sitting the bench. Like, what other ones are you worried will happen?

And I think sometimes they blow it up and I'm like, we have to kind of narrow it

down and ask, why are we afraid to ask the coach why we're not playing?

Right. In reality, and so I think it's so important in helping develop these

athletes, like I said, giving and receiving feedback, self advocating, being able to

stand up for themselves, be able to set boundaries around what they believe is right

or wrong of what they're doing, being able to advocate using their voice. It's so

important. I think when we talk about communication related to parents, I think this

is a harder thing for them to understand that communication for them means taking a

back seat while their kids learn their communication skills. And that's a hard one

because parents want to jump in and be like, I can solve it. I'm mama bear, dad

bear, whatever it is. I want to solve it. And a part of communication skills is

allowing your kids to figure it out and it be really hard, meaning they go and

talk to a coach and they just aren't able to figure out what they want to say.

And they come back frustrated. And they're like, well, coach said I suck. And we've

seen this all right before. And then it's like, did coach really say that? Well,

no, he said this, this and this. Okay, well, maybe we need to learn how to ask

better questions or state more what we want. And so I think communication skills in

that way for parents allowing the kids to figure it out, I think is important, so

critical. And I think on the third part with the coaches, I think this is important

for is to understand how critical transparency is.

And transparency in the aspect of saying, this is the skill that you need to work

on to see court time, ice time, whatever. Like, this is the skill. And not hiding

behind the well, you just need to get better. Like all these, like, kind of fake

comments of like, these are the specific things you need to get better at. And

understanding that even if you get better at it, you still might not get the time

you want. And beyond.

down to communication always it always breaks down to it wasn't communicated well it

wasn't communicated properly it wasn't communicated honestly it wasn't communicated with

education behind it wasn't communicated period right but i think what jen what jen

brings up is the anxiety a lot of us have as parents right and as coaches that

sometimes as a coach especially the youth thought you're not talking about you know

the great communicators of the NFL and the NBA and the NHL. We're talking about, I

mean, the reason these guys are great communicators, like when you look at a Pete

Carroll or something like that, you know that this person is a superior communicator

because of their success, a John Cooper in hockey is a superior communicator because

you can tell because they're successful with their players. I think at the youth

hockey level, and Jen, maybe you could talk about this a little bit about, like,

what can we do as parents to support our players going in with a coach that may,

that you know, like as a parent, like all of us have young, like a lot of us

have young coaches. They're guys or girls that are just out of college, you know,

they're just beginning to their coaching career. Maybe they've never been communicated

to, you know, in a great way. Like what can we do as a parent to coach our

player to go in there and, I don't know, I don't even know the, like,

give a leading question to get the, to get the answer you want out. Because I

agree with you, the most frustrating thing I could have as a parent is my son

coming back and saying, well, what did the coach think about you? I said, I'm doing

fine. I just got to work harder. What do you mean? You got to work hard. You're

clearly not doing fine. You're on the fourth line. So if you were doing fine, you

wouldn't be on the fourth line. So, but, so what is it, what can we do as parents

to help coach our players to come back with the with answers that are that that we

could actually are substantive where we could use them yeah so i think the very

first thing that i say is parents need to journal and i say that because it helps

you get your feelings out right because what happens is like go go ask why you're

not playing we need to know and parents are upset and right because like let's take

a step back like y 'all are spending so much money so much money so much time and

then when the expectations or results are occurring then that is leading it right

there i've been seen in some parent forums where parents are like i'm donating

plasma a few times a month we're looking at taking out another mortgage And I'm

dropping my kid off for practice and going and working a second job. Like there is

a lot of angst, feeling expectations behind it. And I understand that.

And I think sometimes that leads the conversation or pushes the athletes. And so I

think that's why the first thing is, is parents need to journal. Get your feelings

out. I'm pissed. I'm raged. I'm whatever it is. Like, write them down so that you

can get them out. So you're not using your feelings to push your kid into having

the conversation. Yeah, I love that. Because.

thing is what do your kids really want? Are they okay being on the fourth line?

Are they okay sit in the bench knowing that the third backup setter, the third

point guard? Like, are they okay with that and having that real conversation of

like, I'm not mad or frustrated? We just need to know if you're okay with that,

then we have to be okay with it. And sometimes there's a disconnect. Parents are

not okay with the kids being okay with it.

And so having that real conversation, then I think the third thing is asking the

kid, what is it you want? What, like, what is it you want? I want to play. Well,

what does it you mean do you want to play? Do you want to play any position? Or

do you want to play this position? Like, what is it you want? I want to play

outside. I want to play goalie. I want to play whatever it is. And then having,

like, having them write down questions specifically to the skill. This is not a

closed book test. You do not have to go in there memorizing. You can come in there

literally with a pad of paper of like, here are the questions I have. What skill

sets do I need to specifically develop? Jen, I love this. So go ahead,

Lee, but you're asking specific questions that don't shape the work harder, be

better, but like specific skill waste questions. No, no, yeah, I'm sorry for

interrupting you. I'll say where we're going here. What I love about this is, and I

like to pinpoint this for the audience, is the skill sets, right? So being a great

skater, being a great puck handler, having a great shot, does not translate to the

office, right? But communication does, right? So I think in part of that journaling

or even that reflection for parents, and coaches play a role in this too. This is

not on the kids, is to look at, okay, my kid is not in a position they want to

be in. That is a life situation. Period. I'd say 100 % chance you're going to run

into that in your life a few times. In your 40s, it's every 15 minutes.

Yes. You know, so that's the skill set that you need to work on. Well, mom, dad,

I'm scared to talk to the coach. Okay, good, Good. That's a normal reaction to have

to talk to someone of authority. Let's dissect that. Now, you know, I always tell

my kids, too, when they have to talk, if you're really nervous, let's write out

what you want to say. Yep. Right. And I will say this. Coaches, in hockey, we have

a thing called the 24 -hour rule, the 48 -hour rule. I know many sports have it

where a certain amount of time has to go by. But in my, this is my opinion. For

coaches, the door should always be open for players to have a conversation. Always.

If it's brought to them the correct way. And to be fair, I don't know many coaches

who don't do that anymore.

Real mad. And it's up to us for coaches to help say, I understand you want to

have this conversation, but we can't have this dialogue with you yelling or crying

or screaming, right? So that's like an aspect of like, how do we help them? Because

we're also the test ground for them learning the correct way to advocate for

themselves. Right. And look, as a coach, I'll give a great example. I had a young

player on the bench yesterday who was fighting everything that I said, all right?

good kid, but fighting everything that I said. And, you know, a younger version of

me probably would have got pretty mad as a coach. But the mean now, we realize

it's, okay, something outside of hockey is bothering this athlete. So I kind of took

a deep breath and I sat down. This is during the game. And I said, I haven't a

bad day. Did you have a bad day? And man, it was the doors open. Yeah, my mom is

yelling at me and my family this and, you know, contention, contention. And so I

said to this player, I said, oh, you know, I just kind of nodded. And look, look,

here's another side note here, right? Her family business is not my business. All

right. So I don't comment directly on, well, hey, your mom shouldn't say that. I

don't do things like that, okay? And coaches, you should, you should probably not do

that, okay? What I did do and say, well, listen, that sounds really hard, all

right? But right now, you're on the bench with your team and with me and this is

the world for you and I want you to learn how to leave that stress away I said

this is a place of peace for you this is this is sanctuary for you and you know

there was one more little yeah but but and I said yeah listen I understand you're

frustrated but we're we're in a game right now and I want you to be with us the

player won like the player of the game at the end of the game I'm not saying it's

because of me at all I'm saying this player was able to take what I said and and

and she turned it around, not me. Like I just maybe opened the door for her to

see, oh, I'm out of my mind right now, right? I'm not present right now. But that

communication changed the trajectory of this player's game. That's coaching to me, all

right? And it had nothing to do with ice hockey, right? So my point is, is that,

you know, I don't know if a lesson per se was learned by her there, but the idea

was we had a good conversation. We communicated. That's the purpose of this, right?

we took the conflict we moved it away we got present with the situation now where

i'm going with this is that that's an opportunity the player was egregious clearly

had an issue we moved the ego out of the way we had a communicative forum here we

talked coaches you should always be available for your players to have a conversation

with you right and if a player comes to you and says something the wrong way which

can happen great example yeah why the hell am i not getting more ice time i did

everything that game okay coaches you got two choices now you can yell at that kid

back or you can say listen i understand you're asking for more ice time do you

think the way you presented this question to me is going to make me want to give

you more ice time right right you know now can you rephrase the question right

that's a life lesson, all right? Because the coach, Jen, I'm going to throw it back

to you. I probably, the coach now has become safe. You're teaching, right? So when

they have a job in 10 years, then I go, why am I not being paid more money? I

shall. Okay, you think I'm going to pay you more money now? You think you're going

to have a job now? Yeah, yeah. Good luck with that approach. You know, I think the

thing about it is that coaches and parents sometimes forget they're the testing

ground for these kids right like if we want them to advocate for themselves when

we're not around they have to test it out this is you all know this is the

hardest skill ever to be able to advocate for yourself in really hard times when

you're frustrated mad sad whatever it is and they have to test it out this is that

different between soft and hard skills you all are doing how much puck work you're

doing all this practicing why aren't we practicing with this skill set and giving

our athletes the place to be able to figure it out their words and how they're

going to feel? It's like, hey, you know, Mike, I understand right now you're really

frustrated, but this is not the way to talk to someone. Why don't we take a deep

breath and let's come back to it. But that also takes, I mean, Lee, I don't know

about you, but young Jen Fry as a coach was a hothead. Me too. Right. Young Jen

Fry was a hot head. Surprise, surprise. And you have to learn, you can't hothead to

another, a 13 year old. Like, y 'all can't, you can't do that. And it takes some,

like, some self -realization, some emotional regulation to be able to say, like,

they're going to test you. They're going to, the words that they're going to use,

how they're going to say it, their tone, body language. And you have to be able to

be the ground where you're like, this is not the way to do it. I want to have

the conversation with you, but not like this. I understand you're frustrated, but

this is not the way to do it. I do have to say this, too. I agree with

everything.

getting pushed over, right? So I'm just saying there, there is a line, right?

Coaches, and you have to understand that line. But, Jen, like you, I was a hothead

as a young coach. It took me a long time to kind of find that place of balance.

I think that just comes with with reps. Well, and also, like, the coaches,

they see the parents and they know the kids getting it from the parents. And so,

like, we all We all know it's going to do. Yeah, like we know. And that's the

thing. It's not trying to take a knock on someone's parenting or anything like that.

But we see where they get that. And so it's like this is where it's a both sides

need to help them out. Both sides need to maintain emotional regulation for these

young people. Both sides need to be able to have the conversation. Both sides need

to help themselves advocate for themselves. Both sides. It's a two -party system right

here. And I got to say this too. Again, action items for coaches and parents. To

me, this starts the first second the team is together. You have to have a

conversation with the parents and with the kids. And I've sat on a lot of these

coaches kind of conversations. And they usually go like, don't talk to me after the

game, 24 hours, equalized time. We're going to do this. And I wish more coaches

would say, I want your kids to advocate for themselves. I want to talk to your

kids, Right. If there is a bullying issue or something severe parents, the door is

open for you to come talk to me. I understand that. If your kid is in mental

health danger or physical danger, we can talk. If your kid has a problem or you

have a problem, I'd like your kid to be the one who speaks to me. And then make

it a joint venture. We need to help your kids advocate for themselves. You set that

up from the first second. You've changed the whole dynamic of the team. Jen, you

said communication yes right it starts from the first second and you if you try

doing this mid -season good luck well many people think it's reactive because of

something someone did so now if you try and do it in the middle of the season

everyone's going to be talking to each other trying to figure out who was the

reason right that this was done right great point mike did you want to i'm taking

a lot of the oxygen today no no no i mean it makes it makes total sense i mean

i'm just reflecting kind about.

often take advantage of parents that aren't confrontational. Like, it's almost like

the squeaky wheel, it always gets kind of attuned to,

right? Because the parent that doesn't, like, I'm a parent that just, I just tell

my son, you go talk to the coach. I'll be standing right next to him, you know,

depending on his age, right? And depending on where my kids were in their age

group. But I'm like, listen, you have to advocate for yourself. You have to have

this conversation. You have to be the one that the coach has to relate to and talk

to. Again, this is like 16, 17, 17, 18 year old. It's not a, not a nine -year

-old. But I think that us as parents, though,

you do have to be a little aggressive as far as asking for that communication to

happen. Because if you don't, it just never will. Like the only people that will

get responded to are the kids that the parent is screaming and yelling from the

stands and the kid that the coach is always, you know, trying to help as opposed

to the kid that, that says nothing, right? I don't know, Jen, do you think, I

mean, do those kids get lost in some of these communication systems because

everybody's like, well, he must not be having any issue because he's nice and quiet.

And I'm like, yeah, but we want every parent to be quiet. Like,

I want all the parents not to be confrontational. You know, but I think you're, but

what you're saying is though, you know, if you're, if you don't set that up from

the beginning as part of your culture that, you know, that, that you have to as a

parent, I don't mind you coming to me. Like, I want you to come to me. You know,

because you're dealing with a lot of different parents. What would be your advice to

a parent that says, I'm completely hands off. My kid is unhappy,

but I'm not the parent that's going to go approach to coach. Like, you know,

how do you find a way to advocate for your kid? So that's a really good

multifaceted question. And I think the first thing is, as you mentioned, your kid

advocating for themselves at 16, 17, 18, but not at 9 or 10. I would push back

and say, why are we not teaching nine and ten year olds to advocate for yourself

for some reason think about your kids when they were like up until maybe like two

or three what was their favorite word no no no no no no they said it all the

time if you went and if someone they didn't like maybe put their hand on their

shoulder the kid would be like right like ripping their shoulder away they were very

in tune with saying no and boundaries and somewhere along the line, kids stopped

doing that. Kids stopped doing that. Maybe it was because just go hug that auntie.

Go give your grandpa kiss. I know you don't want to go, like we started forcing

these things on kids that stopped them having body autonomy. So then they stopped

advocating for themselves. And I would argue that we should be teaching six, seven,

eight, nine year olds how to advocate for themselves. It's you standing next to

them, but they got to learn to use those words because we're not just talking about

them advocating for themselves in terms of sport. We're talking about them learning

when someone is touching them inappropriately and they have to say no. When someone

is saying something to them and they have to learn how to stand up for themselves.

We shouldn't be waiting until 16, 17, 18. We should be teaching them that you have

to stand up for yourself, to advocate for yourself, to go and talk to your teacher,

all these hard things. Because these are the micro advocacy that builds.

when they're driving and they're out more by themselves and they're going to parties

and they're going to situations that can be potentially problematic now is the time

for them to learn how to advocate it's not going to go well and that's where i

tend to see kids put themselves in really harmful positions because they don't know

how to tell a friend i'm leaving this is not where i want to be this is unsafe i

don't feel good about where we're at and so i would argue that parents stand by

the kids, but we got to get them to start learning how to use their voice at a

young age. And that means that parents got to let them use their voice at home. We

can't tell kids at home, no, no, no, don't ask me questions. You're being

disrespectful. Don't speak back. Like, we can't say all of that stuff and then

expect them to advocate for themselves in a really hard position, it doesn't work

that way. So we have to figure out how do we help them use their voice? And just

to kind of hit on Mike's last question about the kid that does, the parent that's

like, I'm hands off, you can be hands off and help your kid prepare to advocate

for themselves. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Yeah, no, and I probably

didn't articulate myself well there. But you're absolutely right. Like that's like I

would never, what I'm saying is like I wouldn't put my eight or nine year old in

a room with a coach by themselves where I might, but I might do it with my 17 or

18 year old. Like if I, you know, if I have my kid and it would say it with a

teacher, I think, and just a point of reference too for a coach, you should be

asking for that parent to be in the room with you as well. Yeah. Because number

one is, number one is it's, it's very protective of yourself. Yeah. But also it

allows you to use words that you want to use. And the parent knows that

the coach is saying or that's not the question you had for him originally do you

want to rephrase that question or hey did you you know you mentioned this so do

you want to ask this because these are kids and you're you're right on with

everything like we've got to coach our kids write down the question if you have an

issue go ahead and ask and i think i see that all the time you know from my

perspective working with children like Like, I'm like, listen, I want your parent in

here. I want them to hear what I'm saying to you because they're the ones that,

like, it's just like all of us, how was school today? It was fine. What did you

do? You know, and then you find out like he got some huge award in school. You

don't even know about it, right? So I don't. So I guess that goes on my other

question to you, though, is, you know, from a, from this expectations,

you know, having this communication, but then, but in the ideal world, in the ideal

world here, not having conflict, right? We all want to have these conversations

without a fight. And I think, you know, so it's funny, like, so I require from my

coaches in every organization I work with, they have to do three progress reports a

year, and they have to be a digital version of a progress report to a kid. It's

not seven pages long. It's just player one. Here's where they fit in with my team.

Here's how I think they're reacting to me. And here's what I'd love to see more

out of them, right? So that goes to them. But you know what the biggest pushback I

get from coaches sometimes is them not having the confidence. They'd rather have no

conversation than to be proactive to initiate the conversation. Because they almost

think like, well, that's going to even cause, that's going to actually initiate the

conflict. Because before I wasn't saying anything, but now I'm going out of my way

to say something. So could you maybe have a conversation about, like, how do we,

you know, help these athletes and parents communicate,

but know that we don't want to invite the conflict if there is none?

So I think the problem is that we can't think that conflict's always bad and we

can't have this idea of not wanting to invite the conflict. I think the thing to

think about is normalizing it is that you're potentially giving hard information to

someone and they're going to emote, right? Like we can't tell a kid that they're

not doing well and not expect there to be emoted, right? Like they're going to

emote, they're going to have feelings and you can't, you can't separate them. And so

the thing to me is to how do we prepare the coaches for this? Like you think,

like there's a quote. It says silent, um,

um, what's it? It's like conf, let me think here. It's silence. No. I'll have to

think, I'll have to find the quote, but essentially it talking about harmony and the

absence of conflict is not harmony. That's what it is. The absence of conflict is

not harmony. And so many people think everything's fine if we don't have conflict.

And that's inherently not true. You have 10, 12, 13, 15 completely different

personalities. There is going to be conflict all the time, sometimes, especially these

folks got hormones. They're growing. They're going through middle school, high school.

And so we have to kind of stop with the idea of how do we stop conflict from

happening? But how do we better prepare ourselves and everyone involved for it? How

do we better prepare ourselves? How do we understand it? How do I say, okay, I

know I'm writing this really hard thing about Jane or Jimmy, and they're probably

going to be frustrated or mad, and I have to be okay with that. So when they come

to me and Jimmy's like, I don't understand why I'm not playing, and I can say, I

understand that. Let's talk about it. And I am better prepared. And I think that's

the thing is that coaches so don't want conflict so bad that when it happens

they're trying to stop in all ways versus saying if I tell Lee he is not probably

going to play for a while because his puck handling skills or whatever is not up

to par, Lee is probably going to be frustrated with me and I have to be okay with

that. And so you are learning to be okay with giving bad news or hard news and

not I'll holding it, I'll holding it, I'll hold it. Because if I tell Lee at the

beginning of the season, here is what he is just not up to par with. And we have

time to work on it versus I don't want to tell Lee. So I wait, wait, wait, wait,

wait. And now there's two weeks left in this season. And now I tell him, well,

Lee's going to be way more pissed off. Duh. So, like, we cause the anger because

we don't want to give the information versus I'm telling you you at the beginning

of the season so we can prepare for it so we can work on it and helping that

way. I'm laughing for a few reasons. One is the irony of the sport's world is the

sport is conflict. That's what sport is. It's complete conflict on the ice, on the

court, on the field. So it's like we're dealing with it in the games that we're

playing. The other thing, too, is there are an interesting examples, Jen, because

I've dealt with them all. right so i've had i've had coaches who have

of this, right, is I take a lot of solace in the understanding that, look,

I'm doing the best I can as a coach, right? I think coaches need to get in touch

with that. If you're doing the best you can and there's conflict, there's conflict.

And you know what? Here's the thing with conflict. Everyone, everyone listening. You

may be wrong. You may be on the incorrect side of that. You have to be okay with

that too, okay? Because if you're doing the best you can, you're doing the best you

can. Look, I'll give you a high -level example for this audience, right? I have

coaching positions now where I can be fired as the coach. Okay. So when you're a

volunteer coach, you're not getting fired unless you do something really, really bad.

You're volunteering. They're happy you're there. I'm in a position. I can be fired

for wrong decisions, like losses, right, the record. So you want to talk about

pressure and how to compartmentalize it. I have to communicate with my athletes. And

I'll tell you what, the way I live with that pressure, which it's not really

immense, I guess, in the way that I'm saying it, is I'm doing the best I can. And

I have told players before in those kind of situations that we're talking about of

conflict of I, this is my decision to make and I have to live with my decision. I

understand you disagree with it, but it's my decision, right?

right and so i knew they were mad all right so the first thing i did was say hey

listen let's talk i understand you're mad let's give it a week and we'll talk all

right this is a situation we were in and when we got on the phone yeah there was

a little bit of conflict they were mad they wanted to they wanted to know why and

you know what i didn't let my ego get in the way when someone comes at you when

you're in sports you typically feel like you got to come right back i just kind of

sat there i think this is a big part of communication too, Jen. And I just

listened. Just listened. Get your feelings out, right? And then I explained to this

player why I did not play them in that situation. And I'll tell you what, and you

don't get this every time, there was a little bit of silence. And they said, that's

all fair. It said, everything you just said is fair, right? Because think about it.

I let the emotion get out of the way. I let them say what they wanted to say.

And I'll even tell you all the situation because it's an interesting one where this

player, it was a tournament, this player did not have a bad tournament, but they

didn't have a great tournament either, right? And I was putting the players out that

had a great tournament. And I told them that you didn't do enough to show me that

I could play you in these big moments. Right? So it's a tough situation where it's

not like when you did all these things wrong and that's why I didn't play it.

Those are actually easy. Yeah, absolutely. Those are easy to tell them. Well, I'm

not confident in you because so, so, but when I said that of you have to create a

reason for me to put you out, keeping in mind, this is a high level. This is not

you sports. They understood that. And I'll tell you what, they have been unbelievable

since then, right? Because I think we both trust. We understand how to communicate.

They understood there is a method to the madness, right? This is the power of what

communication can bring, right? So it's, Mike, to your point, too, I never invite

conflict. Like, I'm not looking for conflict, but I think Jen makes a good point,

too, that that's inevitable, and that's part of life. That's part of the ROI, right?

Another statement I say, and then I'll give it back to you guys is, you know, I

tell my kids, there's two sides to it, too. I tell coaches, hey, you got to meet

the kids where they're at, but I also tell the kids, you've got to learn how to

talk to adults because that's a 100%. You got to learn how we think too, right?

And by the way, kids listening. If you learn how to talk to adults, you get a lot

more. Listen. I'll throw it back to you guys. Yeah. Go hit it,

Mike. I'll follow you. No, no. Well, listen, so the way I look at all this, right,

is that this is all these kind of, I mean, all these, all these emotions and

conflict and sport. And this is why this is why we're competing, right? That's why

we're, where it really becomes like this side of like I tell parents all the time

like listen I I completely agree that your son probably should have played more but

I have to I have to look at the holistic part of the team like you're only

watching your son that's all you watch yeah don't you say to watch everyone else

but you're only watching your son and I'm trying to work with all these different

dynamics and and working within how I feel like I can't let everybody have an

opinion on the power play if I did we we would go nowhere right so somebody has

to be able to say well I'm making decision now at the end of a year I'll be

evaluated and if I wasn't a very good person to evaluate the power play then I

won't be the coach next year right so so it's just like okay well depending on

what role you're in and what level you're in these kind of things I think you know

as you know As you mentioned earlier, that a beginning of building that culture that

I have, the buck stops with me. Please understand that. This is how I feel about

it. This is why I do it. But just understand, I can't take 15 different people's

opinion. I have to go with what I feel. And the way I'm going to come to that

conclusion is through this, this, this, this and this, all these different pieces in

there. And, Jen, I want to hear your thoughts on this. The buck stops with me.

And they're playing, if they're playing good, your greatness has to show up and you

have to go above and beyond. Is it fair? No. But that's the reality of it. I

think the second thing, I can't remember as Mike who said it, but like you're only

watching one player. And more than likely, you're watching one player and

overestimating them and underestimating everyone else. And so you're watching that

player and your expectations on your player are way overestimated their mistakes

aren't as bad their things they're doing are way greater and you're not taking the

totality of it i think the next thing of it is is that it's always easy when

you're not in that main seat i can make every single decision possible but if i'm

not in the main seat i'm not the person responsible for the repercussions so i did

a podcast um with alison who's the ADA at Cal State East Bay and it's I have a

one called Five with Fry and it's a great podcast. It's about you, when you're in

the main seat, it's not about the great things. It's about can you handle the

consequences? Everyone wants to be in that number one chair. They want to make the

decisions because you want the glory. You don't want to deal with the consequences.

You have to be willing to deal with the consequences. And many of the people that

come up and want to doubt the decisions, A, they don't understand the totality of

what you have to decide on because they have a small amount of education, right? I

tend to see a lot of people who they know only a little bit and they want to

make a decision on the little bit, not reason you have a not understanding you have

a lot of bit of information, right? You have a lot of stuff. And so you have to

be willing to take the consequences then many people don't think about that. So when

they come up and they want to talk about every decision you made, they're talking

about it in Road 34, not you sitting there knowing, right? Because we've all had to

make that decision as a coach that I know I can decide between this person who's

been playing great, but now as soon they've dropped off, I can put this person and

this decision is the game. Right here is the game. And they're not sitting are

thinking that they're one decision is the game. And they don't think about that

aspect of it. So there was a podcast, I was looking at by Mel Robbins, and she

interviewed Dr. Elaine Langer, and she was talking about, like, stop making the right

decision. It's a fascinating podcast, but essentially it talks about, like, how we

always romanticize the other, and these people romanticize the other decision.

And the reality of it is that you don't know if you did that thing if it would

have went to crap right well if you would just put this person in you don't know

if you would put that person and they would have went to crap and so you have to

be willing when it's my decision and I understand that I get the glory and the

consequences and yes the players don't have to agree because also potentially there

is 20 % that they have no clue about that that we're basing our decision off. They

think they know 100 % and they don't. The parents think they know 100 % and they

don't. And there's a 20%, 30 % part that we're not telling them that is critical in

our decision making. And that's why it's like you don't have to agree, but you have

to respect it because there's a lot that you maybe just don't know about. How about

pro sports? I always love using pro sports. This is a good analogy for this.

You listen to pro sports fans and they know how to fix the team. They know,

no.

stuff to make you think certain things to get you to touch you see so little if

you're a parent and youth sports and you show up to every practice in every game

and everything which i don't recommend but if you do that you're still you're still

seeing 30 percent 40 percent of what's actually going on you're not in the locker

room these are things you got to think about you know another one another one you

just brought up all about i got to say this because if i don't say things i

forget for those you know um

I've been doing this a while now. I've got decades in coaching. And what's funny is

this, is that you start to hear parents say similar things, right?

Well, they're never going to make it if they can't figure out this hard work ethic,

except. Well, they just can't stay full. They're never going to make it. They're

never going to make it. First off, my antenna goes up when I hear parents saying,

you're never going to make it. Make what? What are you talking about? Right? And

then we have these comparisons like Connor McDavid or Kobe Bryant about, man, they

were up working at 4 a .m. that's the

He doesn't even clean his room. Right. I'm going to keep going up. It's normal for

a 12 -year -old to have some games. They show up super motivated. And then the next

game, they're not super normal. This is super normal. It's also normal for a 16 or

17 -year -old boy or a girl to have some distracting thoughts every second of the

day. These things yes so so well the reason i'm bringing this up we talk about

meeting the kids where they're at right it's don't don't put any of that extra

pressure on them you can guide them hey i noticed you didn't work hard last game

parents you should be having that conversation with your kid but in a way of yeah

you're 14 that happened to me when i was 14 let's figure out some ways to work

through this this is part of communication all communication. If you're getting into

the car saying you were you were shit tonight. You didn't work hard. I mean, what

do you think that? What is the outcome of that going to be? Right? Because it may

be your kid quitting the sport eventually. All right. We're never talking to you.

And I got to say, I get pissed too. I get pissed at my kids too. Guys, I'm human

too. Right. I get frustrated when my daughter doesn't, it just happened this week.

She had one game that was amazing. And the next game was it wasn't great. But I

got to mind myself, she's nine. Okay. This is going to

but understand the normal behavior yeah it's true like these parents who are like

never going to make kids are well my kids work so hard all the time no they don't

no one does like bro i'm 45 and i just be days like i'm like just send one email

jenn you got it you can do this get this coffee we can get the starbucks if we

send the email we can do it yes and they just they put they put a cobi Bryant on

a pedestal And it's like Kobe also is in the league at 18. Like, let's pipe down.

Let's pipe down about who we're comparing to it. It's okay if your kid's not an

enigma. Like, again, I think most of the parents listening to this podcast, totally

agree with what we're saying. But, you know, Mike and I joke about this too. We

wish that they would glorify the fourth liners in the NHL who play for one year

and like they're exceptional people right you know go ahead mike i'll come in this

one a lot no i mean the best players in the world and we're saying oh that guy

stinks he's the best player in the world he's in the one percent of people in the

world you're one percent you know after you dropped your popcorn on row 345th of

the stadium yeah you can't make that you can't make a comment so but you know so

jenn i am fascinated fascinated by locker rooms and interaction and players and all

of this stuff that we're talking about from the coach's perspective and the parents

perspective. But, you know, really where the where the sausage gets made,

right, is in the locker room. It's, it's where players, and I think your term,

psychological safety, like it's like where players feel they can voice their concerns

without repercussions and can speak about, you know, with their feelings to their

teammates. Because at the end of the day, like, even as a coach, like, who cares

how you feel about me? I need you to love your teammates. Like, I need you to

want to fight for your teammates. So can you just talk about that? What does that

look like in a locker room that you work with in a team room or, you know, where

the players feel safe to criticize, communicate,

advocate for each other within the room. Yeah. So can I just want to bounce back

about what you were saying about being like the worst hockey players of 0 .01? Who

is the basketball player that played for the Celtics that literally did, it was like

him and he would play any average Joe? And he was like, I'm closer to like Michael

Jordan than you are to me. I can't. What was his name? I don't remember. but I

know that.

like that thought but so um when we're talking about that I think the first thing

that comes to mind to make a safer locker room is for everyone to understand y 'all

aren't going to like each other all the time that's a great point like we have to

throw it out of like you I remember when i would be recruiting and have recruits

and they'd be like so how does everyone get along because we don't fight and my

other team I'm like girl you're lying like just don't you're lying everyone's going

to hate each other at some point, right? Think about the honeymoon is preseason. The

honeymoon is y 'all love each other until that roster is made, until the starting

lineup. And so I think the first thing is to understand you aren't going to like

each other. There are going to be times you're rooming with someone. You're going to

not like them. Like that's just life. You're not going to like each other. I think

the second thing is that kind of, and I saw this from this woman on Facebook, I

thought I was really fascinating, is that coaches we have to kind of teach our

athletes how to not like each other meaning if you don't if i don't like mike it

doesn't mean i get to roll my eyes every time he talks it doesn't mean i isolate

him it doesn't mean i do these bad things to him it doesn't mean i make everyone

else not like him it means i just don't like mike and so i think those are

aspects of it i think the next thing to help out with the locker room is teaching

people to give and receive feedback. We don't teach that. So anytime there's

feedback, it's taken as the ultimate criticism and it's just super personal. And so

we have to teach our athletes how to give feedback and how to receive feedback and

be able to take it of like Mike's giving me feedback, but doesn't mean he hates

me. And I'm not going to be sitting there the next day like, yeah, Mike told me

that I did this drill wrong and who does he think he is? No, a part of being on

this team is that we give and receive feedback. And that is a part of our culture.

And so we're training them how to give feedback one -on -one in a group because

that's where some of those pain points are of people don't understand it. I think

the next thing is that really starting teaching like if there's a concern with

someone, how do we talk to them face to face? We don't triangulate and me be like,

hey, I'm mad at Mike Lee. Can you talk to Mike for me and we bring in all these

other people no we learn how to go i would love to talk to my no i'm just

kidding anything please yes but but jen you're so right right because like we want

competition in the locker room like we want players fighting for positions like if

you're not fighting for a position on on the field or on the court or on the ice

but what the hell you're doing i mean you've got a battle i just wrote this down.

I wrote down, show me a team without conflict and I'll show you a team that's not

going to win. No. I need to have, right? I need to have people who are battling.

And a part of battling is that we are fighting for this position. And it doesn't

mean that you're sitting there upset that I won. It's like your next thought should

be how do I beat Jen out? And the problem I'm seeing is that these parents are

like, I saw one parent post was like, we came on this team and it's the beginning

of season and she came out to LaBaro and now she's a D .S. What do we do? Let

her fight for the Libero spot. Like, I don't know what else to tell you. Right.

These kids have to learn the battle. The problem now, right, at the college, they'll

just go in the portal and they move to another place where they can play. So,

like, there is no conflict resolution. There is conflict. Get out. Well, let's get

some actionable. Let's get some actionable items, okay, that Sometimes you can do.

Sometimes you can't. I remember when I was a freshman in college, I'll tell you the

end of the story, won a championship with this team. We did a thing called good

and welfare, which I at the time hated, hated. And we would have to sit in a

circle and call each other out. The coach would make us call each other out on

stuff. Right. And it's you had to come to the meeting with something to talk about

in front of the whole group on somebody else. I would not do this at 10 or 12

years old, all right? This was college. I'm just giving it as an example, but we

did it begrudgingly. And I'll tell you what, one of the closest teams I've ever

been on after a while because we learn how to just talk with each other about the

things we didn't like. And some of the things were stupid. Like, hey, I didn't like

the drinks this guy brought after the game. Seriously, like these were things like

that. But when it comes to kids, you can create a version of that, right?

And coaches, it's about identifying it. If you see two kids fighting on the ice or

even not verbally fighting, but like pushing each other, that's an opportunity for

you as a coach. What's going on here? A lot of times what we do is, you two,

stop it. Stop it. And that's not what you want them to do.

I mean, you got to pick and choose. What's going on? Talk to me. Well, he did

this and he did this. Okay. Well, What's the problem here? All right? Here's the

thing I say to athletes sometimes, sometimes the older athletes, but do you both

believe that you're trying to do what's best for the team right now? Usually the

answer is, yeah. Okay? And follow me here. There's two sides of this. Usually the

answer is, well, I think I'm doing what's best of the team. Okay, well, can we

agree on that that? That you guys are just trying to push each other. Sometimes the

answer is, no, I'm putting myself first. All right? That's a good one. Are you, I

like that. I like that. Yeah, well, it's important to ask questions like that.

point you can have two athletes completely different sides of something both think

they're doing what's best for the team and i'll tell you what that's a better place

to start a conversation because most people can understand okay we we disagree you

can go somewhere from that right if it's i hate you right and that's that's that's

why you see like like sports fans or somebody watches like a video of two teammates

having a fist fight on the ice and they're like oh that team's never going to

they're they're going to lose they they have these guys hate each other like don't

know those guys like best friends like they're like like i used to laugh like i

used to tell people all the time like i have three brothers growing up right i

fought against my brothers harder than any competition i've ever had i mean blood

broken bones i mean it full out fights competition for everything that's why we're a

radio show and i'm just going to go But that competition bred the best out of all

of us. Like, it's just like when you, when you see that, when you see that on the

ice, like I, like there's obviously, there's lines, right? But Jen, your point was,

yes, have the conflict, but then learn how to give it and take it, but learn that

it's not personal. It's a way where I can express my feelings.

I'm not going to bottle it up. I'm not going to say, oh, show and so and hide in

the corner and be in these little fractions of groups. We're all going to expose

it. We're all going to have this conversation and we're all going to resolve it.

And I think this is where teams can move on. And I think it's the coaches and the

players that allow that to become little clicks. And you see that all the time. And

like parents in the stands are you see that click and this click and this click.

And you could honestly see where the team's going to go. Yeah.

most were my opponents, right? Like the person I wanted to beat, right? So it just

shows you the motivation here. And again, all this translates to real life. We're

talking about ROI of you sports. I mean, we're making it very, very sport -centric

right now, gang. But, you know, the kids are going to deal with this stuff in real

life. And I wanted to say this earlier. For the most part, our kids are growing up

just like we did in a very different technological age where they can text and they

can hide behind a user name, all right? And that's that's what they're growing up

with. It's not their fault. All right. That's the reality. And again, our generation

had similar things, right? So I think, in general, I want your thoughts on this.

You know, when it comes to team communication, right, the chats, there's parent

emails, there's digital communication, there's text. I mean, There's so many different

ways to communicate that it can create confusion or even tension because when you

think about text communication, I was trying to warn people about this. There's no

emotional connotation. So we will assign emotion to a text based on sometimes how

we're feeling. If we're in a bad mood, we might read a text completely wrong. So

the question is what boundaries or what best practices Do you recommend for the

families and the coaches and the players and the people involved in digital

communication? So what you're saying is 100 % true. I will not like argue over text.

I won't. All right. Like I had to have a conversation with my, um, an app

developer and I got text from him. I called him because I'm not going to have.

There are certain things we have to start understanding that should not happen over

text. And just what you said, if you're in a bad mood and someone says, okay,

instead of okay with the exclamation point, you're like, what's their problem? What's

going on? Right. Right? Like, are you mad? Or just, right? Or just Kate. Like we,

whatever we're feeling or what we think about the situation, we assign to it. And

now we're even more upset about it because of what we've deemed the emotion is

behind it. So I think the first thing when it comes to communication is yet, like

it's both and, right? Yes, I agree that our kids know a digital world where all

communication is through that. And we still have to teach them to engage as humans.

But that can't be our excuse of like, well, that's just how they're raised. Yeah,

but they still need to be able to engage like humans and have conversations. And we

have have willing to do that because we also have to acknowledge as adults it's so

much easier to do stuff through text i'm not seeing your eyes i'm not feeling you

i'm not the emotion it's so much easier to i send the the text to to lee about

how i'm feeling and then i don't have to answer or i can answer them on my or

leave you on red leave you on red yeah i think i think i think my son actually

gets offended when i actually call like Like, because he's like, I just texted you.

Why would you call me? I'm like, no, I'm just calling you because I need to have

this conversation quickly. And I need to make sure that you and I understand each

other. And I think it goes the same way when parents are texting coaches or you're

in these group chats. I mean, there's a lot of programs that dread the group chats

because they could go in a really bad way, right? I think so is the conversation

more about we have to have more face -to -face meetings. And I think as we've talked

about a million times, right?

for everyone yeah so right because then it gets very personal yeah so let me kind

of hit on a few things like you like what you said mike was on point like i need

to make sure that you are understanding what i'm saying because i'm texting now i

have to wait maybe five 10 minutes to get an answer now i'm annoyed and now i'm

like hey did you get my text i need an answer now that starts that effect versus

me picking up the and just say like i am notorious for picking up the phone or

facetiming my friends like i i just am and i think we have to get people used to

the conversations of that i think the next thing regarding that is parents who are

upset will use every communication medium possible to get to the coach right they're

upset with the lineup so they will do text they will send a tic -tok they will

send the snapchat they will send a Snapchat. They will send a Facebook. They will

send the email. They will send the Instagram message. They will send every

communication method possible to get to the coach. And when they don't get what they

deem is their appropriate answer, they're going to get more upset. Well, I Instagram

the coach and I saw that they're online and they're not answering me. How dare

they? I pay, right? They comes back to that because I paid.

I feel like I should have access to them at all times in all ways.

And that's not true. And so kind of going back to that question, the coaches should

really put around. Here are the parameters. I will only answer through email and

sending up a calendar appointment. Well, I'm going to say. Yeah. There was a

cheerleading gym owner that had these great kind of prompts.

And it was like, you know,

And so that's the type of thing that coaches and admin need to do to be proactive

because what happens is that an angry parent wants to go back and forth in the

Facebook message. That's never going to go well. If they're contacting them in

Facebook or Instagram, it's never going to go well. They're wanting that back and

forth and chat and riled up to screenshot and to send the people. No, no,

no, no. You want to talk about this issue, we need to talk about face -to -face

with your kid there. Well, and it appeases too. It's almost as bad as talking to a

parent at a bar at 1130 at night on a tournament weekend. Like you just don't do

it. Like just don't go there. Don't get out of there and run away. Well, I'm going

to say a few things here too. Like, you know, with the parents, they're going back

and forth. It's not even limited to parents. It's just people, right? And look, I'm

guilty of this too. When you're in an argument and you're heated, a lot of things

could be happening. You may just want to win the argument or you may be waiting

but but let me stop you lee the problem right there is that they're not trying to

solve a problem they're that and that's where i'm argument yeah well Jenna that

that's where i'm heading right is that that you're so focused on winning the

argument you're not listening you're not hearing and you're not in a position to

have a two -way communication adhesive adhesive sorry it you know conducive adhesive

is a totally different thing a conducive to uh to finding a solution. So, you know,

one of the things I wrote about a while ago was that, you know, when they removed

teaching cursive from schools, which I think they have put back in schools now, I

said they should have replaced that with a social etiquette course about the dangers

of typing from behind a screen and how etiquette should work with that. Now, I use

the word etiquette loosely here, but just teaching people, When you text someone,

there is no emotion, even if you put an emoji attached to that. People will respond

to it the way that they're thinking. The other thing, too, is this. I wrote this

down.

Texting gives you time to think, which can be very good or very bad, depending on

how it's going. Right. You know, if I'm a coach and I get a text, I'm not going

to discuss with you most likely anything over text. Jen, you actually said it to

it. I'm not going to give you the opportunity to screenshot what I'm saying and put

it out of context, which will happen, all right, especially when I'm assuming it's a

private conversation. There's no private text conversations, by the way, right? The

other thing, too, is this. I want to have the face -to -face conversation as the

coach, all right, because my coaches want to coach. I want to teach. I want to

hear, I want to learn. It's a really cool example here. The other night I was

doing some team building with the team. I was talking about how great questions lead

to great answers. And a lot of time, great questions will invite, you know, an

opposition, right? It'll invite conflict. And so I said to the team, I'm going to

put myself out there. I'm going to say, my goal is to help build the best team

possible here. These are my methods. Are there any things you guys can think of

that I can do my job better, right? And one of the kids said, well, you're very

unclear sometimes with your directions for the drills. Oh, wow. Now, this was good,

all right? And I said, he said, maybe that's something you can work on. I said,

now, that's a great question. And what I said to him was that, and this is not,

this is not fake. I said, I am purposely vague with the instructions because I'm

trying to inspire you guys to think and be creative on how to find a solution. And

I said, here's an example of how I did that and how you succeeded. Then I said,

do you understand that? Does that make sense? And he said, oh, now I get it. Now,

that's a great conversation. Yep. Because I didn't know he felt that way, right? I

mean, I know what I'm doing with the vague questions. But he said, oh, that's a

concern because I'm not getting the information I need. And I confirmed that. Now,

if this is done through text, it's why aren't you giving us better explanations? And

I write back, you don't need better explanations. Then he texts that to the whole

team. Coach doesn't want to work and give us explanation. It's out of control. And

a 15 second conversation, we both learned. That's good communication.

So don't bring your anger to the conversations. Don't bring your ego to the

conversations. You really got to check that, all right? One of the things I work on

all the time. And again, this is a human thing. It's just a hockey thing is i

always say if i'm emotionally compromised and you've got to be aware of that my

friends you got to be aware if you're angry you're upset something happened you're

rushing right that you're like in a mode where you got to be getting somewhere you

should constantly be asking yourself is this the right time to communicate with

someone i will avoid people if i know i'm in a bad mood because i'm not going to

communicate well all all right i gotta say too that that's not always possible right

there are times you're gonna have to communicate but audit yourself before you start

throwing shade of people i think i think i said i used to ever i used to have a

rule you know when i would be pre uh before texting um when you have a family

meeting or a parent meeting and you know before you could throw the emoji with the

little kid with the hair blowing up yeah yeah like like to me like I always knew

like the conversation was going at a bad place and I would end it.

the person is visibly getting upset, there are great text messengers that can send

you messages all day that are really, really negative, but they don't sound too bad,

right? And then you find out, like, oh my God, this person's like left, just left

the program. Like, you know, so it's, you cannot gauge any kind of, you know, piece

of that unless you're there, live with them, but then you've got to be careful, I

mean, from the coach's perspective, you know, you too, like to at least point is

you need to know oh this probably isn't a good time for me to approach the

situation let me wait not a good time let me wait and then i'll handle this in a

way where i can have more control over it so that it doesn't get into a bad place

yeah i want to hit on kind of a few things of what you said the thing also lee

about you opening up the space for the questions is that your athletes were able to

see how you react Because a lot of people talk about, you know, I have an open

door, you can trust me. And then they ask the question and immediately it's

defensive of like, I do this for a reason. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not being

trained to be here. I'm a volunteer. How dare you talk to me like that. And then

you see like all it takes. I mean, I hope you sat the kid. I hope you sat.

Right. Like then what you tend to see is that the kid will look at the other kids

and everyone's glancing at each other. And now you've shut it down versus here's the

reason why I've done it. But like, Mike.

then i know we have our monthly meeting coming up we'll just have the conversation

then because it i don't need to have it i know we're going to solve it and i

think so many times people have this fear that the conflict won't be solved and so

they have to have it immediately and like you said mike it's important that a coach

knows right now i have a sick kid uh me and my partner are are battling it out i

don't have the space right now to have this conversation. But what some coaches can

do is just admit that. Be like, hey, John, I know you want to talk about your

playing time right now. I have to be home in 15 minutes and I won't be able to

give it the space it needs. So can we have the conversation? Can you come to

practice 15 minutes early? Can we at the end of next practice? But I want to have

the conversation with you. So can we have it? And what you're doing right there is

you're letting them know the importance of what they're saying that you have time

for them but you're also show them that that sometimes everything can't be handled

immediately yeah and let me just kind of add on to that is the last thing is that

if you have someone who's trying to rush you into the conversation that's not that's

not a good indication of what the conversation's going to be if someone's not like

hey okay mike cool i understand we'll talk later If they're like, no, no, let me

just say it right now. Let me just, let me do. And they know that you don't have

the headspace in time, but they want to make sure to get it out. That to me is

really problematic, especially if it's in front of a lot of people. The people who

only want to handle conflict in front of a group aren't really interested in

handling the conflict. They want to make it a spectacle, right? They almost want to

make it like, what's the old story like west side store everyone's got their leather

jacket on right like okay let's do this they want to hey warriors come out to play

i mean this is exactly the reason why you walk out of a car dealership so the car

you can't afford right because you get bullied in like like they just on you on

you on you i'm not ready i'm not ready i'm not ready i'm not really i'm not

really i'll just find the car just in the front seat look at this but it's just

like It's just like a parent with it with a player. And it's just like, you know,

all of a sudden, like maybe you might, like I know, I've seen coaches time and

time again just say, oh, you know what, you know what you're right. We're going to

put you on the power play. But you know you don't want to do that. Like that

should, like that player and that parent pressuring you into those situations because

you just want to give them an answer is not the answer. And I think to your

point, though, that face to face, that

when the time is right, when I make the time for you, we all have to respect

those boundaries, you know, whether you're a player or a coach. And like I used to,

I remember I used to send out notices, and this is before I had kids. And I would

be like, oh, hey, I need to know for practice tonight if we can do this. And I

would expect an answer back, like in 15 minutes. And here, you know, I find out,

oh, that guy's a lineman. He's up on the hole, you know, he doesn't have a

following with him. This guy's a stockbroker. He's not allowed to have his phone

with him. This guy's a dentist. He's probably working all day. All of a sudden,

you're like, you're expecting, like, we're sitting in a coach's room, you know,

putting together these grand plans and what information, but we don't respect the

fact that other people are not on our timeline. We're all living in our own little

worlds. And again, when you can become conscious of that, it helps. Like a couple

of quick things, we're starting to run of time here um i want to talk about the

psychology behind this for everybody listening maybe we can kind of all grow together

here okay jen you brought up a really good scenario whereas i just have to tell

you right now i just have to tell you right now okay when you are feeling the

pressure of a burden and what i mean by pressure of a burden is i feel like my

kid or myself have been wrong and i need to get this off my chest okay it's oh

it's hard but it's okay to live with that burden for a minute and maybe

compartmentalize it and think.

to write things down here's what i'm thinking here's how i'm doing it look parents

players coaches there's not every situation you can do this i acknowledge that all

right but if you're in a situation you should be asking yourself do i have a

couple seconds here to think about what i'm doing before i do it number two i

wanted to bring this i can i push you on that though how many situations is there

an actual urgency that the thing needs to be said well that's a great point very

right if we're not talking about safety if we're not like mental like there i think

that's the thing about it is that right in reality there are very few situations

that they have to say this immediately right i'll take it broader jen i'll take it

actually broader for you okay when we when we work on present moment awareness like

the now one of the things we always teach is You know, most of your problems don't

exist in the present moment. And it's, it, the, I forgot what the equation was, but

it was, if you asked yourself constantly in the present moment, what is the biggest

problem right now? You typically don't have one. Now, with that said, to answer your

question, there are some life moments where there is a major problem happening in

the present moment. And And just to put context on that, you have just received new

that you have a major disease. You've lost a loved one. All right. Someone you care

about has been hurt. Those are life moment, present moments that will hurt you in

the moment. But with that said, they're very rare. If you think about how long

you're on this planet, there's very few of those moments that happen in the present

moment. So to answer your question, almost nothing that you're dealing with is a

present problem. You do have the time. And again, if your problem is ice time, that

happened in the past. And you're trying to get a solution for the future. It's not

happening right now. So people getting a grip on that is very important. I love

that you ask you that. I what you said, like I actually am going to sit with that

because I think like what you said is like, I see my kid not playing instead of

me sitting with it. It's like, I have to go up and be like, I don't usually do

this, but I need to, right? And I like the famous last words, I never do this.

But yet you do this so well. For someone who never does this, you know this really

well. You're practicing this in your mind, haven't you? Right. And so like they are

like, I have to go talk about this immediately.

need to talk about now right like there's no walk away from your parents if you

yes i have no problem doing that the other thing too jen just to just to say this

again it's coming from a place to love you know parents you're doing this because

you love your kids and you want the best for your kid but i would make the

statement that if you know you do love your kid so go to your kid first and talk

with them see if you can have them advocate for themselves we talked about this

that on this episode too your kid should be the one reaching out to the coach

always all right um really always all right now again always if we're talking

bullying i've always i'm talking about the sport if you have a severe bullying

situation uh or or something like that parents you should be involved and coaches

should be getting the parents involved okay but but generally no look the last thing

i want to say again we do have to close this out it's a great conversation jem we

will have you on for part two um is i want to i want to say this to everybody

listening all the parents look coaches we

coach to never let that happen i promise you all that i know mike is the same way

what it happens all right there there are things or every coach listening will not

at this you've got this great drill that's going to help your team and you're

excited and you set it up and it's dog shit just just doesn't work it just doesn't

work and you feel horrible about it we have bad days too all right so just keep

that in the back of your mind now if you've seen six practices in a row that are

horrible, that's not acceptable. All right. But if there's one bad practice, great,

grace people. Give us some greats. We're doing the best. So you don't know what's

going on in our lives either. Yeah, 100%. And I think the thing about it is that

parents expect a level of perfection from coaches. And if not, they do flame

throwers, right? Like I see in the volleyball parents. Right. Like, or they're not

making that much, like the amount of work that's going in to help your kid. And

like, they're just putting flame throwers in there about these coaches.

she doesn't know anything and you're just going after them how do you think coaches

become old coaches is their young coaches she doesn't know anything she's learning

yeah it's like that's okay it's okay and i you unfortunately fortunately fortunately

the team is her guinea pig is his guinea pig they have to learn and i know you

want your coach to always have the former national team coach who's won several

championships and has who walks around practice with an Olympic medal around their

neck. I get that that's the coach you want. And that might not be the best coach

for your kid because the expectations that that coach has, your kid cannot meet at

this time. They actually need the young coach who is figuring out because your kid

who is on the 15 -8 team is figuring their crap out too. And both of y 'all are

figuring out together so have grades for young coaches i'm going to take it even

broader in any youth sport any youth sport the coaches are learning the players are

learning parents you're learning how to be parents i don't care how many kids you

have the refs are learning everyone's learning yes and youth sports all right and

here's the here's the kicker even at professional sports everyone is still learning

that part never ends and i was to say this again these coaches are our volunteers

trying to figure out Mike and I

way you get the expert coach is that they go through those losses the only way the

coach becomes the great coach is that they put in the wrong lineup incorrectly and

screwed up they made the wrong decision they sat the kid too long they kept the

kid too early they communicate poorly you draw up the most amazing drill and it

sucks to high heaven you have to learn that way that's how you become excellent a

hundred percent look there's a quote i always say jen that is a good coaches know

everything great coaches know nothing right because it's going to be constantly

changing all right listen this has been fun we i i want to shout out your book

before we go real quick i'd be if i didn't love the title the title is i said no

how to have a backbone and boundaries without being a jerk that that kind of sums

up this episode too Tell us about the book. Tell us, obviously, where people can

find it, and then we'll close this out. Yeah, so I wrote the book. It actually has

reflection questions in there. I tell personal stories. It's a really quick read. My

goal of it is to give people a better understanding of setting boundaries, self

-advocating. Because we are taught that you shouldn't do it. We're taught if you're

selfish, you're bad. We're taught if you say no. And in reality, that's how you

stay a healthy human is that you know how to say no you pick your battles and

you're able to fiercely advocate for yourself and so that's my hope for the book

you can find a amazon barns and noble if you want an autographed copy of my herbie

hancock some of y 'all might not be old enough to know that if you want my herbie

hancock you can go to genfrighttalks .com you can buy a signed copy and you will

get stickers and a bookmark so Yeah. The holidays are coming up.

The holidays are coming up. As an author myself, please go to her website to buy

the book. Thank you. There's multiple reasons. I'd want you to do that. Look,

people, we all love Amazon. If you want to support the person, go to the website.

Yes. With almost everything. Okay. Amazon overlords, if you're listening, we appreciate

you. Please do not cancel my show. All right. I do want to read this. It's, Again,

the book is, I said no, how to have a backbone and boundaries without being a

jerk. I also love it says the no bullshit guide to setting up boundaries and being

unbothered by other people's feelings. That's a book. We all need to read. I think

we all need to read if you've been listening to this. Lastly, I want to say, and

I'm really proud of this, that, you know, we had Jen on, I was Dr. Jen, right?

You know, Jen is not super involved in the game of ice hockey and the reason i'm

saying that is because it's so important that we bring in multiple perspectives from

different places different background different sports different experiences to learn i

have learned from this episode mike i'm i'm sure you have too right we're talking

about communication we can't silo ourselves only in the hockey world parents i know

i know you don't like i know we play multiple sports we got to get these different

perspectives. And as we learned today, Jen, doesn't matter what your background is.

The communication stuff applies. Every way to go. Yes, 100%. All right. So I don't

want to say no, but I said no. We have to end the episode now. Darn it. This is

so fun. It has been. I appreciate you being here. Mike, any final words before I

let this off? No, I think you're absolutely right.

It's whatever sport it is, parents are parents and players are players and

competition is competition we all get heated whether it's volleyball or football or

ice hockey and um you know it's just a great yeah anything you know tennis uh golf

you know anytime anytime we're we're putting our time and our money uh into

something you know we want and we want results from that uh there's going to be um

you know there's going to be emotion and they think just uh on both sides learning

how to use that emotion for good right uh is going to help uh everybody involved

especially obviously the kids that we have uh under the tutelage of of the coaches

and the parents yeah those are the really ones you know i think we need to protect

the most i love to use emotion for good you know i think we forget that our

emotions are kind of one of the things that uniquely makes us human not that other

beings don't have them, but that's one of the things that's special about our

species. So now that I've taken this to the galactical level, I appreciate all of

you listening to this episode of Our Kids Play Hockey, please check out, Jen Fry.

Again, it's genfri Talks .com. Grab her book, I said no. We're going to do that and

support her. And again, the link will be in the show description, all right?

Also, if you have questions for Jen, if you have questions us. If you had episode

ideas, email us, team at our kids playhockey .com, or once again, click the link in

the description accompanying this episode. Let us know who you are, where you're

from. Ask us anything. We've got a lot of mailbag episodes coming up. This is a

community conversation because we practice what we preach here. For Jen, for Mike,

I'm Lee. We'll see you on the next episode of Our Kids Play Hockey, everybody. Take

care of that fun and skate off.

We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and

subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a

podcast network, a social media network, or our website, Our Kids Playhockey .com.

Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at when Hockey

Stops .com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in

life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of

Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode. Thank you.