Our Girls Play Hockey: How Players Can Get More From Every Hockey Camp

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This episode is powered by NHL Sense Arena. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of Our Girls Play Hockey. It's Lee with Haley Skimora here today, and we've got a topic that's going to affect all of you along your hockey journey at some point, whether it's girls, boys, pros, anything in between. At some point, probably annually, you're going to go to a camp of some sort. Okay. It could be a skills camp, a training camp, development camp, a summer camp, right? It could just be a day camp, but you're going to go to camps. Okay. So our very own Haley here has a little bit of experience in every single one of those types of camps, including running them and coaching them. So that's what we're going to be discussing today. We want you to leave this episode with some actionable advice of okay, if I'm going to a camp, this is what I should be looking for, or this is what I should be taking from a camp that I'm already at. So, with that said, let me bring in Haley. Haley, it's great to see you. Always glad to have you. Thanks for being on your show.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Thanks for having me back, obviously. Excited to chat with you again.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Yeah, it goes both ways. And you know, Haley, where I want to start is a really cool, awesome, warm moment. Uh, you and your father both recently ran a camp, the Skimora camp in Buffalo, New York. So why don't you just walk the audience through a few things? Like how that came to be.

unknown 1:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Walk through the actual camp. And then I just love seeing all the pictures of you with the gold medal and the kids and the family. Uh pretty unique moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah, it was uh it was funny because it was after we had won the gold medal. I had kind of thought about like maybe doing something back home, and I wasn't sure what because it was a little bit quick to kind of decide to do that for the summer. I feel like it was a pretty quick plan that kind of came together. Um, and then my boyfriend actually came up with he's like, What if you do like a daddy-daughter clinic, you know, something like that? And I was like, that could be really fun. And my dad had just been getting back into coaching a little bit. He would help uh kind of youth teams in the area and just go on the ice with them and work with them. And he's like 71 now, so like he doesn't move, you know, as great as he would like on his skates. Uh, but he just loves hockey. He lives, breathes, eats it. Like he was so excited to get back out with the kids. And so I brought the idea to him and he was he was like, Yeah, I'll do it. Like, that sounds amazing. He was so excited. Um, and I was kind of like working through the ideas that I wanted to uh incorporate into the camp. Um, and my thing that I wanted to add was the family fun skate at the end. Um, and that's where like anyone who participated, they could bring a parent, a sibling, you know, whoever they wanted on the ice with them to just kind of like, you know, take pictures, enjoy, just kind of have fun together. And it was funny because when I came up with the idea, I was like, I wasn't sure how it would be received. I was a little nervous about throwing that idea out there because I've never really seen it done before. And I was like, oh my gosh, what if everyone hates it or what if no one does it? And I'm like, okay, Hayley, calm down. Like it doesn't, it's not that big of a deal, but it felt so nerve-wracking. Um, and you know, along with that, we also added in like the mentorship piece because obviously, like Nick and I are both super passionate about that. So we started with that um at the beginning. We did a little talk, question and answer, just kind of all that fun stuff. And then we did a workout with the bands outside, which was really nice. And then we did about our 20 skate. And then my dad ran one end, I ran the other. Nick ran stuff in the middle, or we only did two stations. It depended on the group. And then the family fun skate was at the end. Um, and it was just, it was so much fun. We absolutely loved it. Uh, everything went amazing, but it was definitely super nerve-wracking, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Yeah, but you want it to go well, right? But I'll tell you this one thing about you, Haley, you're just never afraid to try things. Like, like I think you run towards uh, we'll say calculated risks of like this may work, it may not. I don't like the way it makes me feel. Let's do it. But that's why you succeed, right? And um, you know, I I'll say this too. I am all for family fun skate, and I'll tell you why, because I think I'm gonna say this to the whole audience out there. If you are a parent of a hockey player and you did not play, if you've never played, I think it's imperative that you get on the ice one time. Yes, just one time to understand not just the skating and you know that aspect of it, but the speed uh that you're in an enclosed space. I've always loved to equate hockey to like NASCAR, except I said, imagine uh you know, 10 cars going around in an enclosed space like that where you can hit each other. That's kind of what it feels like at times, you know, and throw the goaltenders in there too. You know, I I also love um again the pre-re the uh or that the prerequisites, the the resume on this. It's like you got any anybody out there listening. If you had heard former NHL player, Olympic gold medalist, current uh uh PWHL champion, those are pretty good reasons to attend the camp, right? Oh, and by the way, their father and daughter, that's unique in its nature, right? Can you talk? I do want to ask this a little bit of a savvy question, but like you're out there with your dad. I mean, that must have been that must have been amazing.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

It it really was, and especially because, like, obviously, our relationship, a huge piece of it is hockey, right? And we've gone through our fair share of you know frustrations and um also the joys and excitement of it, right? Like he was my coach growing up. Like obviously, I would get frustrated by him. Like it wasn't a surprise. He was hard on me. And at the time I remember it being really frustrating. And, you know, now looking back, it's it's obviously helped me kind of become the person and player that I am today. And I'm very grateful for it. And I think that perspective has helped me kind of cherish our relationship in a different way now, too. And now it's like now I'm excited to go work with him. Like now I'm excited to be coached by him or hear his thoughts on things. And I think that evolution kind of in our relationship, it was really nice to be able to uh to go out on the ice and coach together. Like that was a very unique experience. And uh it was so great. We were like, I stayed at his house for a few days before uh the clinics, and he was looking up YouTube videos. He had his like notebook, which I remember he would plan like meticulously, like our practice plans growing up. So it was just like such a throwback. But then there we are practicing or like working through the practice plans together and wanting to make sure this was such a great camp for the kids. And um, and you know, we did a lot of the drills either we did growing up or you know, in our summers and things like that, or it was new drills that he found online. So it was just so much fun to kind of work with him in a different capacity and just kind of build our relationship in a different way and um share our love of the game with like the next generation in the area was just absolutely surreal. And um, afterwards, he just said he loved seeing me like kind of interact with all the young girls and stuff and seeing me inspire them. And that was like his favorite part of it, which was great.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yeah, I'll tell you, Haley. So obviously, for those of you wondering, there's plenty of social media content on Haley's channel here that you should check out uh at Haley Skimora, obviously. Um, Haley, you're a good coach, you know. And again, like we only we only get a few snippets of you, but I was watching you on a video the other day, kind of explaining the drill. You communicate really clearly, and not like I mean, you're clearly in your element out there, like not that you're not here or anything like that, but I'm just saying, like the way you were explaining it, it was so great because obviously you were explaining the drill, you explaining kind of the why and the how, and then the here's how to do it better. Um, look, you're a player, be a player as long as you can be a player, obviously, right? Where does that you know, coach Haley, come from? Uh, like, where did you draw for that? Because I'm gonna say it again, Haley. I've been around a lot of coaches. You are really good at articulating what needs to be done.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate that. I think it's evolved for sure. I I've done so much coaching kind of throughout my career as a side gig for you know, for fun, whatever it might be. And you really have to learn different ways to communicate a drill or a concept to kids because it's not like a one size fits all. And funny enough, like the clip that you're talking about, like each time, because it was stationed. So I was doing different groups each time. And as the groups went on, I was realizing, oh my gosh, I have to teach this part of it. There's so many little things about the game where I'm like, oh, this is like second nature to me, but it's like, wait, it's not to them yet. Like, I need to explain this in detail. And then um, the ice hockey systems guy was out there as well, and he he was like, Oh, like uh he was showing his niece who was on the ice something. He's like, Is that okay? I did that. I was like, Of course. I'm like, I forgot to kind of mention that with like the stick detail and stuff. So I was like, that's great for me to know for next time. So it's just it's constantly evolving, honestly. And I do appreciate that compliment because it is like yeah, um, but it's definitely it has evolved for sure. Like I remember I like to pick brains of people I coach under a lot too, and I like to see how they coach a concept and see how I can incorporate it like in my own way, uh, because I may not know as much on the you know, uh on the subject as they do, but maybe I can explain it in my own way for kids to hear in a different way so it clicks for them.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah, I and I love that you're always like ever evolving with it because that's the key too. And and I actually enjoy, at least this part of my career, I enjoy watching how other coaches coach because you start to draw things from that as well. And like you said before about drill creation, uh, drill creation becomes real fun, uh, you know, when you enjoy the team you're coaching, because it's almost like putting puzzle pieces together of how can I get from A to Z through the drills that we're trying to discuss. But no, I I I love the way you you explained that. I also love the way you did it. I'm gonna say that again because you know, you mentioned it, kids have to have this done sometimes differently, depending on who you're coaching, what their age level is at. We did that great episode not too long ago about net front presence and how that muscle memory was built in your mind. And and I remember we talked about like you know, now you just do it, like you're not thinking about it, you just do it. But all the steps that had to happen for that to be there, you know. One of the things I'm coaching to right now is the difference between re reaction and anticipation. Uh, and it's you know, for the like for the audience listening, you know, reaction versus anticipation, just to quickly imagine trying to coach that, right? They're very similar things. One is forethought, one is after the thought.

unknown 10:37

Right?

SPEAKER_00 10:38

You gotta that's and that's important in hospital, right? So so little things like that are not always as simple to coach as people think, but but you did a good job. I I want to ask you this too, just keeping it moving. You know, you've attempted you've attended a lot of camps, right? What what and and you can go any level of your career here with this. What separates the great ones from the uh the meh ones?

SPEAKER_02 11:02

It's so hard because I feel like they're all for different purposes. And I think that could be great depending on what you want, right? Like I know for mine for the Buffalo clinics that I had, that's I added the family fun scape part of it because I didn't want it to be so serious. Sometimes I find that like summer camps can get like super intense and serious, and I'm like, these kids are coming out here to have fun. I mean, unless you are choosing a super serious summer camp, which all power to you, but I like, at least for mine, I wanted it to have like that fun piece to it. You know, we're playing games during the practice and things like that. But um, I honestly just think it's the intention behind the camp. I think you can tell when it's just a money grab versus when they want that experience to be really great for the kids.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Um, you can tell people's intentions by the thought that is put into like the drills or maybe like the gifts that like the kids might get, or or just like yeah, their attention to detail and what they're kind of offering and what they're promoting and things like that. I think you can really just tell uh when people are doing it for the love of the game, for the next generation, for and like obviously I understand people need to make money and that's totally fine, but like you can tell the difference from when their heart's not in it.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yeah, well let's let's do that. Let's do a lot, we'll do this together, right? Okay, based on what you just said. There's so many camps available, like there's just no shortage of them. Uh and you're right, some of them are cash grabs. I've seen them. They're kind of scary, actually. But let's just say you, you know, we're like I am a parent. Let's just say we're parents here, we're investing our money. That's the way I want you to look at it. Someone's spending money on this. Let's come up with three things that we should look at before we sign up for the camp. Okay. I mean, and I I could tell you one of mine right off the bat is is coach to player ratio. Oh that's what I'm looking for. All right. Because uh, if it looks like the first day of learn to play hockey and there's a hundred kids on the ice, to me, that's a big red flag, right? That is that is a cash grab. Like I want I want a coach, I'd say for every five kids, there should be one coach, right? Um, within reason. And that might even be a little too high. I mean, ideally, I think you want three or four. Um, the best clinics I see, there's coaches littered all over the ice at camps, excuse me, um, with intense teaching. And we should also say, too, that you know, coaches and shooters can be different things, right? But I think it's it's it's coach to kid ratio is important to me. I think that's a fair question of like how many kids are going to be on the ice at this at this camp.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

That that's a really good point. It's interesting to hear your point of view, obviously, too, as like a parent, right? Like what to look for for your kids. And I think coach to player ratio are important. Um, I remember we made sure we had that for sure. Uh, because some of our groups, we had like 36 kids in the one day. And so I had to make sure we had extra hands on because you really want to make sure the kids are getting individual, you know, support and um value. And value exactly. Like they're I we want them to have a good experience. So I think it's super important to make sure. Um, honestly, maybe like a honestly, I don't think you're too far off with the five to one ratio. I think six or seven to one is also but like around that range is broken up.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Like if you're doing small groups around the ice, I think it is. Yeah, um, it just it just really depends on what you're trying to teach. I think. Yeah, I mean, because like there's also, I should say as I'm playing a little bit of devil's advocate on myself, but like if you're doing a skating clinic, um, I think the groups can be a little bigger if if you have a right skating instructor. Yeah, um, what I always say in those situations is you know, you kind of want someone uh you know watching as well, just to kind of you know see what people are doing. Because I can't coach 10 kids at the same time, right? Right, but but if I say this is the drill, we're working on edges, you know, I want a couple extra coaches out there, at least just watching and pulling kids aside if I have to. Yeah, since the kids, yeah. Not all camps are for kids. Yeah, you know, I think another one uh you mentioned, and I'll come at it from the the point of view of a parent, is and this is this is a tough one. It's like, you know, are are my kids friends going to the camp? And are they friends that are gonna work hard? All right, because because what I don't want is my kids going and just in the corner chatting the whole time, and it's just a fun time with their friends. I'm all for that off the ice. Don't get me wrong, parents. I think that's an aspect of it, but I want them to push each other, right? But but the truth is this whether you go with friends or not, right? They have to have that competitiveness. Um, and so but sometimes, especially in the younger ages, yeah, I want I want my kids to go with their friends just so they they can kind of catch up and and push each other further. I at the same time, Haley, I'm again contradicting myself, I want them to meet new kids, right? I want them to meet other opponents, like like I think about my son's goaltending camp, uh, which is excellent. You know, he has friends at that camp that he doesn't see the rest of the year, right? So that's that's also pretty cool. But how much does the camaraderie pay into it for you, play into it for you, excuse me, in terms of like three things to look for?

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Yeah, I think I think that's huge too. And um, that was also something I had noticed because like a lot of kids would obviously sign up with their friends, so they wanted to be with their friends, and so sometimes we would give them the same jersey color, but then there were times where it just worked out, they were on different teams. And I do think it's great to be able to branch out, get to learn to meet new people, play with new people, and especially in such a quick environment where you're only with them for like a day or or a few days, and learning to like play with um with new people and get to know them. And that's like a skill in and of itself, not even just related to hockey, just life, like getting able to meet people and know how to interact with them and know how to work together in such a short amount of time, I think is is a vital uh life lesson.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah, no, uh a hundred percent. And and it always freaks me out when people don't branch out like that. Because I just I'm not I don't think I'm talking about just hockey now. I think like you should you should have other activities. I mean, you're gonna always have your friends and things like that. Um, look, let's go for the number third one. If it's number third, number three. The the I think we can go one of two directions here. It's either scheduling or price. Now, may I ask how much you charge for your camp?

SPEAKER_02 17:01

For the day, it was 275.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

That is a perfectly acceptable price. Okay. I'm I'm saying this for a reason. I did not know what that cost. I knew, I know you though. Perfectly acceptable. I had an email come through to our group here saying that there was a camp that was charging $900 for the day. For one day. It sounded like it was one day the way it was described to me.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Uh but here's the thing, even for two days, that's no, that's like so wow.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

And it's I I actually said I would not do that camp for that amount of money. All right. And and unless you have no cares about money, which none of us in Yu hockey do. I was like, that was kind of a red flag. I was like, and then I'm gonna merge the two. I was like, what are you getting for the money? Right, right, because like you could buy your own ice session for that three times in a row, most likely.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

And it's like it was just kind of a generic schedule, so I think it's the value of the amount you're spending versus what's the schedule. I love your schedule, it's not just ice, off ice, or gone. It's ice, mentorship, off ice, family fund, skate, come right. I I could invest in that for my kids as a parent.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

But I I wish more camps would have better schedules, right? If I'm just paying for a jersey in the ice time, right? I don't think that's a good value, right? Yeah, I think it's it's gotta be what are you doing off the ice? And I'd want to hear what value is my kid gonna leave the camp with. Again, I'll use my son's goaltending camp. He always leaves with something new, and he tells me, I learned this, I learned that, I asked this, I got that. Coach told me this. Um, adversely, in a positive way, my daughter was at an all-girls camp um uh last week as well. And it's like every day she came home with, Oh, I they taught us this, we did that. This was really hard. I didn't like this. That's that's a good thing to hear too, right? I I didn't like I didn't enjoy this, right? Like that's that's progress in some form, right? But the the money has to match the experience. It's like like $900 for a camp, even if it was a weekend. I'm not gonna lie to you, that's it's too much. Like it's a little crazy for me. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 19:12

I I agree. I don't know if I've ever I don't know if I've heard a camp that high, if I'm being honest.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

So that is that is quite something. But I mean, I think the the price was something I you know worked around for a while, just trying to think of what what the fairest price is. Um, and that was hard. And I think that was also like it was a little stressful to think of. Like I wanted to make sure that I was offering enough for these families and like gifting the kids stuff and the jerseys and just making sure everything was good based on what I was saying the price was, but it is taking time out of my life and out of the coaches' lives that are also coming and working the camp and um you know, paying for ice time and uh all those different things. And so yeah, it it took a minute, but I'm glad uh I'm glad it was like a fair price. But yeah, you don't want to be paying like an arm and a leg to let your kid go to a camp for a few days, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I'll say this too, that you know, when I think most of us, it's not that we would do it for free. Most of us don't want to overly charge, like we're not going in this going, and like it's like this is not how a lot of us are going into these camps. Truth is though, ice time costs money, time is time, right? We do need to be compensated for these things. But that that's why I said it's a red flag. Because I I think most camps that I see, the value matches the amount that I'm being asked to spend, right? Right. So for the parents listening and the kids listening, if if you don't feel that, if if it raises an eyebrow, like how much did you say? I mean, unless you've got everyone coming out of that camp thing saying this is the greatest, most amazing thing ever. I went in there, my kid's six inches taller now, and God is 50 miles per hour faster. I'd pay for that, right? Who wouldn't? But that's probably not going to be happening. Um, right. Um, on this trajectory, Haley, let's talk about this. So there's different types of camps, too, right? I said at the beginning of the show, there's kind of hockey day camps that are more recreational in nature. Um, there's also hockey skills camps, defensemen camp, offensemen camp, goalie camps, skating shooting skills camps. Um, do you believe players should attend one over the other? Do you think there's more value in one over the other? Like, how would you approach that as a family?

SPEAKER_02 21:28

I think if you're kind of looking for something fun for them to do over the summer where they can just like meet new people, uh enjoy going on the ice and working out or whatever, I think a hockey day camp is perfect for your kid. Like, I think those are the ones where they're there all day. You're able to just drop them off 9 a.m. or whatever that time is, pick them up at 3 3 30. Um, and they have a lot of fun and they get to meet new people and they're, you know, playing off ice games and things like that. Uh, I would say if You're looking for more individual work or individual skills, then you would want to attend like those smaller skills sessions and things like that. Um, if you're kind of more serious in that sense. Uh, but maybe doing honestly both in the summer might be kind of fun. You know, maybe you start off your summer with like the fun, the fun week of hockey camp where it's not as serious, maybe, and then you kind of go into like your more skill-based ones later in the summer when you're kind of like ramping up for the season, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, I I feel like that's kind of how we do it in our family. So look, I'm I'm I'm religious about this on the show. We take a break at the end of the season always. Yeah, you know, the minimum month, it's usually two. Uh, there may be a thing sprinkled in there, like a couple days, but it's nothing consistent. And then, you know, kind of when we get to now, we're recording this in July. Uh, is is I c I joke with my kids, it's like season kickoff. It's just let's get on the ice, do a camp. They both did a week camp. Nice. My favorite thing that I hear from them is it's so good to be out on the ice again. I'm my son said it to me uh after the first day, just so happy to be back on the ice again. Like, okay, you're refreshed, you're feeling good. You know, my daughter's out there, I could see her trying hard. And now I'll start at home a little bit to ramp up uh a little more of a consistent buildup. It won't be five days a week or anything like that. And it's funny because when I'm looking at my calendar, Haley, like like our practices start for the regular season, the last week of July, starting into August. That's that's sounds early, but that's when a lot of teams start. And it's like they're gonna have plenty of ice from that that whole month leading up to the regular season. So now it's just about some building, some touch points, right? Right. So when we look at camps right now, that's kind of what I'm looking for for them. They have their day camp. It's if a hockey thing comes available. Yeah, I always ask too. I think that's another important part of this. Like, I don't force my kids into hockey camp.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Um, I'm always asking them, do you want to go, you know, to my daughter, do you want to go to this all girls camp? Yeah, you want to go to the goalie camp camp. Yeah, okay. Well, that's good. Now they're invested in it and they're trying to learn something. So I think that's an important part of the choosing process, too. It's having that conversation with your kids.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Absolutely, because I'm sure your kids will let you know if they had fun or not at that camp.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah, yeah, there's nothing more heartbreaking than I hated that. I hated it.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Oh I've seen it.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

I you know, um, there's a there's a difference between it was hard and I hated it.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

It was hard and I didn't like it being hard. Now that's life lesson opportunity. If it's I hated that, I hated the kids, I hated the coach. That's that's usually a red flag uh for the future.

unknown 24:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Um, here's one for you, right? And and I don't you I you can bring this to Olympic camp if you want. All right. What's a mistake you see players make coming into a camp, like arriving at a camp, and maybe what should they do instead?

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Oh man, that's a tough question. Um I would say I don't know if mistake is the right word, but something I've noticed is just having like respect for the coaches that are there. I think sometimes you have to kind of like lay down the law a little bit uh at the start when you maybe don't really want to do that. And I think they'll having a respect for the coaches that are there taking time to like have fun with you and have camp. And I think the quicker you kind of realize that you need to respect them and listen to directions and stuff, the more fun you're going to have at the camp. But sometimes that kind of level of respect, they're kind of just like uh thinking it's just only for fun, they can do whatever they want. It's like, no, you're still here to like learn and and to get better, and you can still have fun, but you know, within the lines of still respecting everyone around you.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah, it's not daycare. That's one of the things I think I when I run a camper, I do it. I I kind of establish that in a positive way. Like it this isn't like a uh uh I mean, you may drop your kids off, but it's not drop off, don't care daycare. Yeah, right. Like that was when they were babies for me. Like it's you're in, I mean it like this. You're investing money into what I'm doing. Yes, let's make sure that they show up mentally ready to understand that we can have fun, it can be maybe a little loose compared to the regular season, but there's work to be done, and I expect you to do the work. And if you I'll say to parents, if that's not your kid, then this isn't the camp for you, right? Right, and again, I'm not I'm not like oh, but when I'm out there, it's just like, no, we're gonna have fun, but you got to put the work in. Yes, another pet peeve of mine is just being on time. I mean, like it's a little awkward, you know. Look, look, you're gonna be late every once it happens, traffic things happen. But when I see a kid walking in during the first ice session, and I can tell it's because they didn't feel like waking up that day, yeah. That's uh maybe you're right, maybe mistake's not the word. That's a pet peeve. Yeah, like it's it's you know, and and I'll be honest with you, the parents will come in and say, I just couldn't get them out of bed, they were just lazy in bed. I was like, Well, you're the parent. Yeah, get them out of bed. Like, what are you what are you talking about? And then and then I'll say this too the preparation, right? Uh some of these camps start early. Like, if you've got to be on the ice, let's just say 8 a.m., which is not crazy early, but you figure you gotta be there late as 7:30. Yeah, maybe driving a half hour, you're probably waking up at the six o'clock hour in the summer. Does anybody want to do that? No, nobody wants to do that, all right. But did you pack the bag the night before? Put it in the car. I I'll I'll have my kids get dressed into their kind of like undergarments at the house. Like, put yourself in a position to succeed, right? All right, and and I'm gonna say this. I'm I'm not I'm not gonna take the excuse. Well, I have I have four or five kids. Like, I I mean this is an action, like just yeah, it's a consistent habit that you gotta create. So I think I think that's pretty important too. I mean, and I imagine at the pro level, like Haley, you know, the the on time is 15 minutes late mentality takes off, right? Can you talk to us a little about the pros and how they approach camps?

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Yeah, I think uh for us, you know, our joke is always like if you're not 10 minutes early, you're late, kind of thing. Right. Uh so that was a big thing, especially like with USA hockey. Like we're literally sitting in the meeting room for 10 minutes before it's supposed to start. So we normally start like five minutes early, probably. Um that's just kind of like ingrained in us. Like you don't just show up like right on time, like you're always early. Um and I just think it's just um it's the basic, you know what I mean? It's like the easiest, simplest thing you can do, but it also shows that you're a professional when you're showing up early and stuff. And like whenever, like if a rookie or something, if they're like always late, like that's usually something we're like kind of cracking down on pretty quick. Okay, we we gotta be early. Like, we're not we don't show up late to things. Um, and so that's one of the easiest things to kind of like hold each other accountable for, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

How the Olympic level, the Olympic camp.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yeah. I I want to talk about that. Just like I imagine everyone's at that. Well, maybe I'm right. Is everyone at that level at that camp? Or do you have the rookie situation sometimes at the Olympic level?

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Um, I would say we had the situation maybe in 2022, but uh this time around we didn't have we didn't have any of that. Everyone was was good and ready to go for sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

And just remind everybody how that ended up.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

So you know up early.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Canada, Canada. It's I'm sorry, can't for Canadian listeners give it give us a break. Okay, you've had it for a long time. You get to do this every once in a while. Okay, um, yeah, no, I'm just teasing there. Um, you know, here's another one I want to ask you, right? So let's talk about specific camps. Let's say you're going to a skills camp of some sort, right? The question always comes up from parents of when the kid enters the camp and leaves the camp, how much progression should they see, right? Now, I want to discuss this for a few minutes because there are no camps on earth that in one week your kid's gonna go in at a certain level and come out at a completely different level. And I think that parents have to go into these camps, kids too, for that matter, an understanding of the job is not just to improve. I I I I hope to goodness every kid comes out of any ice session I'm with with more information than when they came in. But I always say to the parents, Haley, you want to bring tools out of the camp that you can apply for the rest of the season. If you leave my camp with a tool or a skill set that you know you need to improve on, and I and we've given you the tools to do that, that's the biggest value you can take away from a camp. And yeah, look, of course, every once in a while, not even once a while, like kids, things will click at a camp. Like you'll get to get things for the first time. Okay, I can use goalie camps, like like the mechanics, like that's almost an easier place to find things to click, uh, just the nature of goaltending. Nothing easy about goaltending, folks. Don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

But I think when we think about camps, it's like, no, no, no, it's not about coming out of the camp a different player, it's about coming out of the camp a more knowledgeable player. You agree with that? And then tell me about your experience with that too.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Absolutely agree with you. I think you know, maybe you come out of the camp with more knowledge on how to work on a skill. Right. And so that you're able to work on that skill more often in your free time. I think that's probably maybe the biggest like indicator of you know, having success at a camp or enjoying a camp and what it provided. Um, something else that I kind of realized, and I don't know it kind of ties in with the camaraderie thing and meeting new people and stuff, but like by going to a camp, you're also exposed to more kids at different skill levels.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

And so I think that naturally kind of helps you either elevate your game or be or realize like kind of where you are and like continue to elevate your game. Um, but that's another cool aspect I think of a camp is that you're going to be surrounded by kids you maybe normally wouldn't have been surrounded by. And you kind of like expand what you feel you could be capable of and kind of elevate your game in that way.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yeah, and that's not just talent-based, that's maturity-based. That's um, you know, like again, and it can go either way, how a kid handles themselves or maybe doesn't handle handle themselves.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

You know, I think also in this kind of culture of this highlight real mentality that we have now of only seeing highlights, you know, that's another reason they be at these camps because I would want my kids, and I had a really good discussion with my son, I don't mind talking about about the mindset of a camp of if you see a kid that's that's more skilled than you at something, that's your opportunity to learn, right? Yes. And and the story I remember too is that um my son, you know, look, I coach, he sees me coaching, so he naturally kind of has some of those tendencies to want to help other people. It's not so much that he's coaching, but like he'll tell his teammates, hey, this is what I see. And and he's learning that not every teammate wants to hear that, right? It's just the truth, right? And and I remember he getting the guy in the car one day, he was kind of confused. He's like, Well, I this is how he said it. He said, I was trying to tell this kid something I saw. Um, and the kid snapped at me saying, Well, I'm triple A, I don't need to listen to you. All right, and and I'm bringing this up. Uh obviously, no names here, right? I'm I'm bringing this up because the way we had discussion was this. I didn't go, Well, that kid's an idiot. No, I said, Well, okay. I said, I said, he didn't want to, he just wasn't in a position to want to take that information. And I said, Is that is that your problem or his problem? He goes, That's his problem. I said, Yeah, then don't let it bother you. Did you do you feel like you were doing the right thing? He goes, Yeah. I said, Okay, that's enough. I said, But you also gotta realize, you know, not everybody wants to be taught. And I said that, yeah, and this is the this is also a key of coaching, is you know, you have to be ready to receive the transmission. Yeah, if it's closed, you're not receiving the transmission. Uh you know, and we all get to mindsets like that at some point in our life.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

But I said, I also said to him too, Haley, I said, Do you see how the letters next to your name don't qualify you as a person? And I said that I'm not saying that goalie that he was talking, he was a bad person, could be a tremendous kit, right? For sure. At that moment, he was not available to listen. Right. So the point I'm making, what I'm getting to with this, is that you're right, Haley. When you go to a camp, you're gonna have every letter triple A, double A, A, B, C, whatever exists out there. Yeah. Um, man, what an opportunity to see what they're doing uh well, what you can improve at. You might also discover things that you're good at that you didn't realize, right? Like if everyone's great at shooting, well, maybe get good at passing, right? Or if everyone's good at skating, you know, obviously get good at skating too, but like where do you fit in? What can you do? Uh so I think that's one of the tremendous values is is again being around other kids, being around other skill levels, and then learning. And I would say this too to the kids, and and Haley, I'm gonna tap into your mindset too. Like that growth mentality, that learning mindset. Kids don't go into the camp with this, God, I hope I hope no one's that much better than me. It should actually be the opposite. Like, yeah, you know, not I hope everyone's better than me, but like hope there's people here that I can learn from, right? And yeah, I imagine at the pro level too, Haley. Like, again, not just camp, but in general, like you play with some pretty prolific players, kind of accomplishment. I'm sure you're trying to learn from them every time you're with them.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Absolutely. I always want to be around the best players. I think it only makes you better, it elevates your game. Um, and then you also realize like what your strengths are, right? Like they might not have the same strengths as you, and it kind of makes you uh appreciate those a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Um, and then yeah, it's it's fun to play with good people. I I've never been one to be like, oh, I I want to be the best player on my team. Like, I don't want anyone to be better than me. It's like, no, I want everyone to like bring their strengths to the table. I want to play with the best players and make myself better in the process.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah. Well, and and you continually do. Here's a couple more questions, here's one for you, right? Um, again, we can discuss it together, but like think about parents, and and I want you to take it this from the coach point of view. What's something parents should be telling their kids before camp? Um, because I've heard it all. I mean, I can tell you what not to say, but you know, you're around these kids when they're showing up. I mean, what are some of the things you heard growing up or some of the things you want to hear parents be saying to their kids to prep for camp and when they drop them off?

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Um, I mean, I said it earlier. I think the respect thing is huge. Um, respecting your coaches. I think uh being being willing to listen and be coachable, I think is a big one. I think there's a lot of uh sometimes a lot of resistance to that as the coach. And you, you know, it's like, okay, I I'm here to coach. Like that's kind of my like my purpose here. Uh, but if you're not willing to receive that, then you know what? I'm gonna go to the next kid because they're probably excited to receive that information. So I think just letting your kids know that like being coached doesn't mean you're like you're not good or you're bad or anything like that. It's only to help you continue to get better.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Um, and I think those two pieces are some of the biggest, I don't know, I think some of the biggest ones to kind of focus in on before going to a camp. And then just having fun and meeting new people, I think is super important. I I remember the other day I was I was shocked when I heard these two kids, like they were hanging out this whole time, right? And I'm like, oh, what's their name? And they go, Oh, I don't know. I go, you've been hanging out, like introduce yourselves, you guys. So I think that's a little surprising. I think in this day and age, sometimes where I think people forget to just introduce themselves so they know each other's names and things like that. Um and I think that's super important. Like uh it was fun this weekend. I was coaching the team Montreal for this Rochester camp. And I didn't interact with them too much. Like I was coaching behind the bench and then coaching on the ice, but it's quick, quick hits, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:29

And we're on the bench and the girls are talking to each other and they're calling each other by ice cream flavors. I'm like, what are you guys like, what are you guys talking about? They're like, oh, we were in the locker room getting to know each other and we're asking each other our favorite flavors. I'm like, wait, that's so cute. And so then they would refer to each other as that. So I think um fostering that in your kids, like getting to know other people, getting to know their names, introducing yourselves, like getting more social in that respect. Um, in my opinion, is super important and I think is important for just life in general, like not just for hockey. I think with these camps, it's fostering things that help with life skills, not just for hockey.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

100%. You know, first off, I'm lactose intolerant, so that probably it would have been mint chocolate chip for me, but I don't like call me lactate or something like that now. But uh, one of the things I know to be true, Haley, and you just talked about it, is I was a kid once, I'm an adult now. Uh looks like through human history, kids have never had a problem making friends with other kids, they're so much better at it than adults, yes, right? In terms of like to the point you just made of like they don't even know each other's names, but it's I mean, you know, if you put enough kids in a room together, they're gonna figure it out, right? And they're gonna be friends. Um, and I think that's another aspect of these camps is you know, encouraging your kid, go meet some new people, go talk to some people, and typically they'll do it on their own. I do love the growth mindset too. You know, I say this all the time on the show. Coaches want to coach. We want to coach. The kids we love the most are the kids who ask great questions, right? I I just love it when a any hockey player, a kid, just comes up to me and says, Can you teach me this? Because I want to give my knowledge. Yeah, right. The thing that probably is the biggest like no-no for me is I know, I know, I know. I'm like, if you knew you wouldn't be here. You know, it it it that's one of those things that's frustrating to me. So, yeah, as parents, in addition to hey, look, I love you, son, daughter, have a great day, have fun out there, learn something. Yeah, have an open mind, right? Learn something. That I think that's especially in the summer, you're and making me think about this as a dad. You know, during the regular season, I probably don't say that enough, but in the summertime, I'm like, hey, learn something, learn something amazing today. Like, even learn how this like I'm not a goaltender. I said, learn how your pads can work more efficiently. Like, yeah, talk to the other boys how they tie their skates, right? Like, go learn, like be a sponge. And yeah, the other thing, too, that my my and I'm I'm not bragging about my kids, but my son has a notebook and he writes down what he learns. I love that journals what he learns, and he's got a notebook per season. And you know, I hear that my kid would never do that. I'm like, do you know that? That's why I said you know that, or are you assuming that? Right, right. You might be surprised if you ask him to write about hockey. Like if you're asking for an essay on the state of Hawaii and the gross domestic product of that state, yeah, I I wouldn't want to write that either. But if you say, write down just three little notes today about what you learned, not only do they have a bigger chance of remembering it, but you're setting up a habit, right? And a reflection. So, and that goes back full circle here of you know, you want to take something away from the camp. When I ran my training camp recently, I told all the athletes that my goal for this camp, one of the main goals, is that you leave with information you did not have when you got here, right? When and then this will set up the final question for the show, whether it's actual hockey information, tactical information, or mental information. That's why I had guest speakers. That's why we had uh, like you said, you have off ice mentorship, right? Yeah, that's gonna set up the final question. And we I think we've danced around some of them today, Haley. But in addition to the ice, right? Besides the ice, what life lessons do you hope players leave a camp with? All right, and again, we talked about the camaraderie, we've talked about these things, but you face a lot of adversity in a week, right? With these camps, what's a life lesson that they can take away? And please draw on your own experience, and you can go at any level you want.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

There's so many. I think to be honest, like one that's coming to my mind right now is just being able to take constructive criticism and be able to make yourself better from that.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Um, I think it's so easy to brush it off and be like, no, I don't need to do that, or or I already I know everything, like I'm good. And it's a lot harder to be like, you know what, they're right. I could work on that, like I could get better at that. Um, and to not take it so personally as well. And I think that also just equates to whatever you might do in your next stage in life or in college or um in your job or you know, with relationships. I think there's just things you can always improve upon in yourself. And I think it's really important to be able to take those and not take it personally.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah, I I think that's just tremendous advice. And I think it comes back. Like I look for the commonalities in the episodes. It's a lot of this is just about having a growth mindset consistently, like whether it's camp, regular season, school. And I think that what we're hearing from you, Haley, is that and this is you know, again, what separated you from the pack is whether you're coaching, you're playing. It seems like in everything you do, you're looking to learn. You're you're looking to find something else. And um not to not to extend it with more questions, but do you think that that was something you've always had? Is that something that you had at a young age as well? Or is that something that developed over time?

SPEAKER_02 42:49

I feel like I've always had it, but I also had a dad who was my coach. And so I feel like I just naturally was being coached a lot and was eager to learn and get better. So maybe it's like a mix of both. Uh, because yes, I would get frustrated with my dad sometimes, obviously. But overall, I enjoyed learning. I enjoyed getting better. Uh, in school, I loved learning. Um, and so I think those things did kind of come naturally to me in a sense, but I do think it was also taught in me by both of my parents, obviously. But my dad for sure was was like a strong force in terms of coaching. So uh I was used to being coached.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Well, I love it. And now Skimora Hockey established 2002 thing, right? So look, I I I again I don't know your dad personally, but as a dad of two kids, uh I can only imagine the level of pride he has in you, uh in your family, how proud he is. But I'm telling you right now, if I was running a camp with my daughter or my son of that nature, I mean, I would I would be on cloud nine. I would be the happiest thing in the world uh for that. And I and I love your answer to the question as well, Haley. That you know, like this is something as parents we can encourage our kids to do uh to learn, right? The learning, right? And again, telling is not teaching. Let's say that again to everybody. Telling is not teaching, okay. The teaching is getting teaching the kids to think for themselves. I laugh because I feel like we're living in a time where like critical thinking skills are just not as sharp as they once were. Like, like, like son, daughter, go find the answer. Well, can't you just give me the answer? I can, I'm not going to go find the answer. All right. Um, and I find that the kids do that enter into these camps with a sense of curiosity, uh, take the most out of it. I think I think that's the moral of the story here, right? And and and you created a camp that's that's demanding curiosity, uh, and I think that that's really special. So thank you. Good on you, Haley. Yeah, another uh feather in the cap. All right. Um, we got some more exciting our girls play hockey episodes coming up. Uh, some of them Haley doesn't know about, she's some surprises for her coming down the line, and then uh in a good way. Um, and then we're gonna be here with you the morning in the summer gang with uh talking about a lot of different aspects. And uh, I'm just gonna tease it because we're recording it here. Um, we all know Haley's going to Vegas, but she's going to Vegas for something else soon, uh, including the ESPN awards, SBs, and uh, and a party that we're all we're gonna have to do at the ML party coming. For sure. Just teasing it out for those of you who don't know. Haley, thanks so much for the time today. Uh, as always, um, love to have this with you.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Yes, me too. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

All right, that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Girls Play Hockey. Remember, you can email us, have any thoughts, questions for Haley, team at our kidsplayhockey.com, or hit the description notes. You can uh text us, we can text you back. Only 160 characters. So if you want a longer answer, email us. But uh for Halley's Kamura, I'm Leah Lias. We'll see you on the next Our Girls Play Hockey, everybody. Take care. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at When Hockey Stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.