Fan Mail - Your Kid Loves Hockey but Lacks Confidence in New Situations

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey Hockey Hockey Hockey. I love the echo on that. Uh I'm Leo Elias joined by as always Christy Cashana Burns, Mike Benelli. We got a fan mail episode. And for those of you listening, we know you love these. Because anybody who writes into this show always writes something that a lot of you want to discuss, but they had the guts to do it. That's a little bit of a pressure push for you guys to submit topics. We have a lot of great guests on the show, but we want to hear from you as well. But today, we've got a great letter from someone from the great state of Connecticut. And guys, before we dive into this letter, we have to have a quick debate because my producer Caitlin and I were talking yesterday. This person says they're from the tri-state area. We're having a discussion about how there's a lot of tri-state areas, depending where you're live in the United States. But Mike, I'm going to turn to you real quick because the tri-state area where you're from is New Jersey, Connecticut, New York, correct?

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Well, the tri-state area for any where anybody's from is Connecticut, New Jersey, and New York. There is no other tri-there is no tri-like. I've never heard, like, I'm on I'm in the tri-state area of Vermont, Maine, and New Hampshire. Like, that's not real. It's not real. It's not the only the only tri-state area is Jersey, New York, and Connecticut.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

You're speaking like a true person from that area. Uh, you guys love leaving Pennsylvania out of this because where I'm from in Philadelphia, the tri-state area is New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Oh. All right. And then the Delaware, Delaware, Delaware is hardly into even if you're well we don't want to make the viewers in Delaware go away, Mike.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Now, the other part is that if you go farther south, you have uh the tri-state area of Del Marva, which is Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Right, but it would be again, this could be a whole other podcast. But I think it's but it but it but it's it'll never be it'll it'll never be referred to the tri-state. I've never been anywhere else in the world where like, oh, where are you going to the tri-state? You know where the tri-state is. You know where the tri-state is.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

I agree with you. Yeah, I would agree with you on this. Uh just having to look at it.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

So the call, the the writer is is is accurate.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Uh okay. Well, I'm gonna get in the letter now because the viewers and listeners are here for the letter. Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

And I will verify that I'm from central New York, the tri-state is. Yes, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

If you're a tri-stater, you're in upstate New York.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

No.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Well, my mic's own caveats in now, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Now now we gotta go into the upstate, downstate debate, which is a whole nother episode.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

So you're above, you're above Albany, New York.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Are you from Canada, New York? Are you from New York, New York?

SPEAKER_03 4:08

He's in upstate New York.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

You you watch. Now we're gonna get channel about this. We're gonna get a lot of letters about listen. Let me tell you what the tri-state actually anyway. Just wanted to start it off with a barn burner today. Let's get into the letter. Okay. Uh, the person who wrote this letter has been has asked to be anonymous for for many reasons, but I'm gonna read this. Uh, stick with me for a minute, folks, because it's about two pages long, but it'll flow right by. Okay, here we go. Hi guys, love the podcast. I'm a hockey dad in Connecticut in the Tri-State area with a 2019 birth year playing travel mites. Again, the year is 2026 when we're recording this, uh, just for for uh uh to let you guys know out there. I really appreciate the way you talk about development, confidence, and keeping the game fun for young kids. I have a question about my son that I think a lot of parents probably deal with, especially at this age when things start getting a little more competitive. Again, my son is a 2019 birth year who really loves hockey and plays well once he's on the ice. He actually does great in pressure situations. He just has had a strong try-out this year and made the higher level team, but he sometimes struggles before practices or clinics when the environment feels new, especially if he doesn't know the kids or feels out of his comfort zone. Once he's on the ice, he usually does great. In drills, he works hard and in one-on-one situations he competes well. But in scrimmages, when things get more chaotic, he can turn into more of an observer instead of chasing the puck and playing aggressively. He seems to do best when hockey feels fun and social, but he also clearly has the ability to play at a higher level. Recently he had a situation where he got very upset before a spring clinic because he didn't know anyone there. But once he went on the ice, he played great and said he wanted to go back. The first day of that spring clinic, my son was dressed and ready, but when we got to the rink, he froze. He wanted to go on, but he was overwhelmed and just couldn't move. In that moment, I said something I regret along the lines of maybe he's not ready to play with kids of his own level, and I know that wasn't helpful, but my wife stayed calm. She gave him space and told him he only had to go on for five minutes and could skate off if needed. And a promise of his favorite toy. He finally stepped on the ice, and once he did, he played very well. We learned to help him name it instead of I don't want to go, we say I feel nervous. That shift appears to help him see not uh just hockey, but it's about how he's feeling. That's something we actually talk about on the show a lot. The next spring session, he refused to go back, still unsure, still no friends, but lured into the rink with the promise of playing arcade games and said, Let's see how you feel, and he eventually got on the ice. And by the third session, something shifted. It was three versus three, same ranks, same kids, same coaches, fast and competitive, and he played aggressively. He scored multiple goals, chased loose pucks, and was fully in it. I do see him playing more competitively with smaller groups versus four and four or larger scrimmages, especially if he doesn't know the team. I was proud that by his third session, he had a breakthrough and was able to handle the feelings before getting on the ice. This past season was his first year of travel hockey. He was a little nervous at the start, but he never hesitated to go, practical games. He dressed, he showed up, he played the part. Over time, he built real confidence, he had two close friends from school on the team, and that made a big difference. Still leading towards watching versus diving in, though. And here's the thing, and for the audience, this is the crux of the letter. Not only did he finish the season strong, he jumped a level in tryouts and made the top team. He's got the skill, the fire, and the love for the game, but at certain times he has this weight of feelings holding him back a bit. So when everyone is new and everything is new, uh, new rank, new kids, new familiar faces, that's when the overwhelm can start to shut him down. Now, the challenge is this a lot of his friends left the team from this past season, and he'll be starting next season with mostly new kids and a new coach. We want to keep signing him up because growth lives there, but we're looking for simple, sustainable ways to help him step in with confidence. How should parents handle a kid like this at this age, one who loves the game and has the ability, but needs time to get comfortable in new situations and isn't always naturally aggressive in games? How do you push them to grow and compete harder without hurting their confidence and making them lose their love for hockey? Written by hockey, written very well, by the way, by hockey dad in Connecticut. Now, before we get into this, for the audience listening, I know I said it's a 2019 birth year, it's a young kid. Do not think this does not apply to the the older kids, right? Because this situation not only is a root situation for older kids, but for the dad that wrote this, if you think this is limited to a seven-year-old, I've seen this at 12, 15, 16 across the board. But just bringing it back. How do you push them to grow and compete high harder? Um, how do you keep them aggressive when maybe they're a little shy? Christy, I'm gonna throw this one right to you.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

All right. What he's describing is really pretty common, and it's a great foundation to build on because here you've got a kid who loves the game, shows up consistently, develops confidence over time. Those are all really good qualities that you can build on. Hesitation in new situations, everybody feels that. That's not uncommon. So what I would suggest is you help them give him the tools to help him build confidence. So let's go back about those to those good qualities. You got a kid who's observant, he's coachable, he's emotionally aware. That's all great stuff. Newness to a new situation. There are ways you can help him to make that. What my kids always did is, and they love to do this, if it's a new rank, a new team, take them into the rank a day ahead of time, you know, meet the coach. Um, a new school, for example. I don't know if your kids did this. When when my kids went from a grade school to middle school, they let the kids in a day early so that they could walk around the school, try out lockers. They never did lockers before, figure out how to do a combination, go into the classrooms. That familiarity can build confidence. So um I think this dad has a lot of great things to work with. And it's just helping your kid feel a little bit more comfortable in new situations, which is very common. That is not a bad thing. And you can help him give him the tools to help build the confidence.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Yeah. There's there's you know, that's all like healthy stuff, right? That's all like normal, like that. Like when you're saying that, Christy, I'm thinking, okay, well, that's like a normal, healthy kind of thing you would do. Like, like you would never throw your kid into middle school without having gone to middle school orientation. I mean, I just have my kids at college and he wouldn't go to college. I don't orientation. It's like, hey, get off the bus, good luck. Right. So I think so. I think there's there's there's there's so many levels of this that that can be approached, you know, from an organization perspective. Like, like to Lee's point, this happens to more kids than I think we we would admit. And it's the organization's responsibility to probably put in those those tools, the the the orientation sessions. The you can't just go into the rink and the first thing you do is you go into a a foreign locker room with foreign people and foreign kids and jump on the ice and and you might not even meet the coach until halfway through the practice. Like so there's all kinds of there's all kinds of you know tools in here that we can use as organizations. But I think the the thing that the thing that that that gives me a little red flag in this kind of situation is number one is the player's a 2019 year of birth. So he's he's he's seven. So in my and my on my hockey director's side of my life, I'd be like, well, who really like just put him in a place where he's having fun. Like there should be no coercion, there should be no baiting, and there should be no like, hey, uh, you know, quid pro quo where you do this, I'll give you that. I mean, he's seven years old. So like I I think all as parents, we all get like hung up on like like the stuff like I love, you know, actually he was very articulate, right? In the letter, like like he he excels when it's just fun and social, and then he has a hard time when it's more competitive and a little more, you know, in depth, right? And I'm like, well, then then put him in the fun and social. Like it should be it should be all fun and social, he's seven. So and again, and I think in our region, the tri-state, that you're you're when you're when you're when you're in when you're in a when you're in a place where everything is like I've gotta be the best at the minute I start it, and I have to place myself in a in a in a in a level that looks good on Facebook and Instagram, like at the pressure of being like on the elite level or the competitive level, or like everybody gets so offended by saying, Oh, my kid's just on the weekend having fun. Like, it's almost like, what do you mean he's just having fun? Like, isn't he a hockey player? Like, isn't he progressing? Like, isn't he getting better? So I always fall back to the my my I always fall back to the fact that like my analogy that you would never, these these words and the way you would write this letter would never happen on a playground. Like ever, ever. Right? You would never just be like, I had to beg my kid to get out of the car and go get on a slide or go on the swings or play in the sandbox or a bunch of like you think about kids when you go on vacation, right? And you go to a you go to a park and you have a seven-year-old and there's a bunch of kids at the park, they just go and play with the kids at the park. Right. Like there just literally is no reservation. And if you have a shy kid, most of the time it's like some other kid's gonna come over and be like, hey, little Michael, come over here. Like that's just that's the environment we're in. We get all caught up in the hockey side. But to Lee's point, this happens at every level. I mean, this is this is happening today with 12-year-olds that that leave a team, they go to a new team, they go into a locker room, and we're not, we're just not, and you know, and Christy, you said it, prepare your child, sure, and and and and build the the pieces in place that are gonna help them make this transition. Um, and and you can do that. You actively have to do that, though. It's not a it's not an organic thing that happens. You need to you need to actively put in place these steps, and this dad has obviously done a great job by articulating what the what the symptom is. And I think now we just have to prescribe you know what the antidote would be to this these kind of situations.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Right. I always like to call it shrink the newness for your kids, and there are ways you can do that. That sounds like a good book.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Shrink the newness. That's shrink the newness. It's gonna be on new. You know, a few things I want to say. I always write a lot of notes when you both are talking. You know, um, the first thing I want to say to this person who wrote the letter uh is, and I don't think parents we do this enough. Ask your kid what they want at that age, ask your kid what they're comfortable with. I think a lot of times uh what happens here, and I always like to say this if you're a hockey person, let's say if you're a parent who played hockey or you've been involved in hockey, or even you're a hockey fan, a lot of times we do this mystical thing where we apply the intensity of playing hockey or watching hockey to this young age, right? Like hockey's an intense sport. It is, don't get me wrong, but when you're seven, it it's not and it shouldn't be. And I wrote down here like it's funny how it's like kind of playing competitively versus being seven years old, right? And Mike, you said it a minute ago, like there's no other environment where you would put a seven-year-old in and be very concerned about their compete level, other than maybe youth sports or youth hockey. I think across the board, you've got to let the kids be kids, right? The three of us are saying it right now at that age. Look, if your kid's competitive, that's fantastic. I really mean that. That's a wonderful asset, but that's not an asset that we're really paying attention to at the higher levels with a seven-year-old. It's cultivating a love for the game.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

So, Mike's suggestion of put the kid where he's having a blast, that is exactly what you should be doing. All right. Now, we're also talking about you know, the fear of a kid in a new environment. In my opinion, we're not doing enough to put our kids into those environments. That is a massive skill set for young people of introducing them to new people, allowing them to talk to new people, letting them be nervous, right? And in the letter we they talked about bribing their kid. I'm not gonna sit here and tell every parent I know has bribed their kid at some point to do something, that's not a bad part of it at all, right? But what we're seeing at the older levels is a complete failure of these kids' ability to communicate with each other. Now, again, they're growing up in a world where they're in their screens all the time and they're not communicating. As a parent, you know, look, competitive hockey is great. I'd be more concerned at this age of hey, go talk to that person, go talk to this person, your coach. Something small I do with my kids that that I like to share when we're at a restaurant, my kids will order what they're going to get and they will look the waiter or the waitress in the eye when they order. And and when I tell them to do that, do you think they're like, Yeah, no, they don't want to do it, but they're going to do it, they gotta do it. Yeah, so those skill sets are insanely important. And again, if you want to apply it, we can apply this to how what does that have to do with hockey? If if your young player cannot communicate effectively when they get older, they are not gonna accomplish much uh on the ice, off the ice. I mean, again, I'm going back and forth between hockey and real life, right? Okay, but interacting is a skill, communication is a skill, and they are just as important at seven as being competitive. Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

But isn't that isn't that the reason to put your kid in sport? I can like again, we the reason to put your kid in sport is not to create a professional athlete, although that could happen. The idea that you're putting your kid in a sport is to allow them to learn all the things that sports provides us. And one of those things is uh you know, reacting to new environments and to you know creating space for yourself to you know learn new things and to meet new people and to communicate in in good and bad ways, like to say, oh, well, that was kind of the wrong way to do it. Rather my seven-year-old have a have a bad reaction to a way, you know, to introducing himself to somebody in the locker room than my you know 22-year-old for his job interview. And again, not that we have to bridge all these huge gaps, but it's just like there's it's I guess it all depends on the motivation for putting your kid into an activity. And if the motivation in the activity is to create a world-class athlete at 70 years old, then okay, then then you are gonna experience all these these trials and tribulations very quickly, and it's probably gonna be exasperated and and and and defined harder because and you know, and and more stark because you're looking, you know, for this, you're looking to mold this 17-year-old, you know, into Connor Dard. And they're not Connor Dard yet. They could be, they could be, but but again, the the motivation shouldn't be, and we hear this from virtually every professional hockey player we talk to. Right. That they wish, and again, and now now in in in in full defense, a lot of them still don't practice what they preach, but they do say you should just go have fun, just let the kids enjoy themselves, right? Right, I mean when you dig into it, you know, maybe not everybody's doing that, but that's really the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Right. And you listen to this, you read this letter, and his kid is not overwhelmed by hockey. That's not the overwhelming factor. It's just the newness and the uncertainty, and that's pretty normal, especially for a seven-year-old, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Yeah, it probably goes, it probably goes back to my, you know, to to a lot of the conversations I have any time you're building a program, is to retain kids for longer periods of time and and enables them like our curse, our culture of hockey right now is every six months you're meeting another 15 new kids. Yeah, and that's just not a healthy culture. It's not a good way to coach, it's not a good way to develop, it's not a good now. You could say, I guess in some ways, if your kid was on the on the spectrum side of the bad experience, that oh, well, he needed a new, he needed a new environment, he needed new people. But if there was a good you know, amount you know, it was good social interaction, everything seemed to be going okay. Why we keep trying to change it is beyond me. It's actually getting back. It's like it's like you can talk to his parents, especially in tryout season, right? Well, why are you leaving? Oh, the coach left, so I don't, you know, we we really like that coach and we don't want a new coach. Yeah, but you're leaving for a new coach. So your your argument is stupid. Like, like you're you're saying you're leaving because the coach left, but you're leaving to go to another coach. So wouldn't you rather be with all the kids? You just a red like like that's the one common denominator is okay, well, we figured out the kids, that's hard, and now the only thing you need to change then is to figure out the coach. Instead, what we do is we have to figure out the coach and the kids. Well, and the coach and the coach has to figure out our kids.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Different coaches, like like this is another episode, too. But you know, we we should have a conversation about how having different coaches is not a bad thing, right? Like sure, having different coaches give different perspectives, different teaching. It actually helps you. If you look at the top NHL players uh in the offseason, they'll work with a professional coach, but every two or three seasons, they'll switch it up who they're working with because they want a different perspective, they want different knowledge, um, for the most part. Um, I also want to bring it back to this. One of the questions he asked here is how, and I was reading this while you're talking, Mike, right? How should parents handle a kid at this age? This is the key part here. One who loves the game, yeah, has ability, needs time to get comfortable in new situations and isn't always naturally aggressive. And you've already answered the question. Your kid loves the game. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah, you're doing all the right things.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Right. You can't replace that love. That's what you build on the love for the game. You don't want to take that away from the kid. Right. Um, these feelings of nervousness, and Lee, we've talked about this many times on the show. Um, you got to help kids figure out how to handle the nerves. You don't want it obviously to overwhelm them, but you also want them to realize they're real, acknowledge that. That's a part of life. You're going to be nervous. And there are ways to control that nervousness. And you know, we've all talked about this before. Let's say you're in a game, your kids are, you know, the kids are getting pummeled. What does the coach tell them? One shift at a time, win the battle with the puck, the little things that can build confidence that'll make you feel take away some of that edge, edge off the nervousness.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

You guys are gonna laugh at me now. So this is fun. This kind of goes back to the roots of the show.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

All right, because my my oldest is 12 now, and I am enjoying all of the wonderful things that being a tween uh has to offer, if you guys understand what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

I remember those days.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Right. And something I'm learning, because remember, we started this show when my son was about seven. All right. One of the things I'm learning is uh for the person who wrote this letter, you're gonna have to have these conversations over and over and over again uh in a lot of different ways. So I I love that they wrote that they're doing kind of what we talked about on the show is hey, identify what you're feeling. Yes, call it out, right? That is a powerful tool for anyone at any age. Identify what you're feeling and say, I am angry, I am nervous. That is a massive tool for anyone. Every human being, it gives you power over the emotion. And we did all this with my kid when he was seven, and he got a really good grip on it. Then puberty started. All right. And it's like I'm having the same conversations again with an older child, all right, but but it's like, hey, remember these tactics, right? And one of the things I'm learning about uh, you know, a 12-year-old is because their brain is changing so much right now, is that when they're 12, and and you know, there's a range on this, obviously, their brain defense mechanisms turn off. So they feel wild emotions and they experience wild swings in what they're doing. And anybody who has a kid like mine or older is laughing right now because they're they're experiencing this. So the development of the human being is not gonna stop, right? And and I'm I'm gonna bring this in too, because my son is very competitive, right? But I would not have pinged him as that when he was seven. In fact, I bet you if we go back to the older shows, uh, there might be a show of me talking about I don't feel the competitive energy out of him at this point. Now it's really there. So to the person that wrote this letter, your kid's competitive today, and that that's great. They may not be in two years, and other kids may be like that. That part of the game comes and goes in different forms. All right. And I'm gonna say it again like much like the game, you can kind of only cultivate it. You can't you can't yell at a kid you're not competitive enough. That's not gonna create make them more competitive.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Well, I think I think that, but that's the whole point. Is he saying he's competitive when he's comfortable and he's not competitive when he's not comfortable?

SPEAKER_02 24:56

So is that is that competitive?

SPEAKER_03 24:57

Keep him in the comfortable positions then. He's comfortable, he's confident, and that's why he's competitive. Like when kids, when kids, when you look like when you have a parent say, Hey, can you make my kid competitive? Well, I said, Can you help me make your kid confident? Right. Like, so because if you're confident, you can be competitive. But it's hard to be competitive when you're a peripheral, you know, outside the line player. Like when you're somebody that's not willing to go into the dirty areas and go in to you know, make a play that might not be, you know, it's the same kid that's like, eh, he just dumps the pucket and he gets rid of it, he curls, he gets, and people are like, Oh, he's not competitive. I don't know if he's not competitive because when he's playing against, you know, because it sounds like when he's out there just having fun, he's very competitive. So it's like just be careful of the fact that you know that you mask his competitiveness with the fact that he's not having confidence with a different group and a maybe a better group. Right. So be the big fish in the small pond, dominate every every level, whether you're whether you're seven or seventeen, dominate at the level that you're at first before you start to try to move a kid. Like at seven years old, and I and I will I will die on this hill. Seven years old is not the place where you need to say, in order to get better, in order to be the best, you got to play the best. That is complete B. It is just BS. That's nonsense. It's one percent of the kid that needs to, you know, feel like every day they've got beaten down and and discouraged, and and I'll show you. Most kids are, wow, I really like being the best kid. Great. Now be the best kid with the next best kid. Now be the best kid with the next best kids. Not the, oh, I wanted to be the best kid, but dad, I never touched the pop for a whole weekend. All right, well, you're no good. That's why you stay. So just go, you know, figure so so now go to the level you can you could have you can compete. Competition will well, you know, confidence will breed competition. The competition will breed you to get a little better. When you get a little better, you move to the next level.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Well, I was gonna say this too, real quick. A couple things, real quick. All right, so I gotta preface this always. If your kid plays triple A might, I'm not judging you right now, just just follow what I'm saying. Okay, Mike, you're a coach, I'm a coach. Have you ever, ever had a parent or a kid come up to you when they're 17 or 18 that's really succeeding and said to you, you know, it's because I played triple A mites. That's why I'm here today. Has that ever happened to you once?

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Is it is it possible because they don't even know, they don't even remember when they were seven-year-old Mike.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Right. So that that I'm only saying this for perspective because I'm gonna say it again. There's not I'm not saying it's wrong to play mites. I'm saying I I've been to those games, the pressure on those games is mind-boggling to me because it's like it, guys, what are we doing here? The other thing, too, and and I gotta say this too, is like like we would never expect a seven-year-old to go to the playground and become competitive. Like we we would never you go to the playground, like you said, you would never say, like, I want you to get on that swing, and you need to do better than the kid next to you on that.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

We would never say I will say, I used to get mad. I used to get mad when I'd see my like I'd get mad. Like if I was at the playground and somebody like, like, like nudged one of my kids out of the way to get on the slide or said, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna get off the jungle gym. I'm I gotta be like and I I as a as a dad, I'm like, get in there and get in there.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Like, but that's human interaction, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:17

No, but I'm but I'm not saying like I can't believe he couldn't get on the monkey bars as quick as that kid. I better get some private lessons for this kid. Like, he's got to get on those monkey bars better. Like, so it's never it never goes through your brain that way. But it but it does listen, I I can I know I can see like you look and go, oh, I wish he was a little more competitive. Sure. But the kid might say, I don't even give a crap. Like it doesn't even bother me.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

It bothers the parent more than it bothers me.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

It bothers me. So you know my wife would say, Well, we'll take a walk around the soccer field then. If it's bothering you, then don't look at it. It doesn't bother him. And I'm like, okay, well, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

That's why one hockey woman used to keep a big bunch of suckers in her pocket as soon as people started yapping, the parents started yapping, she'd given this. Here you go, put that in your mouth, just be quiet, go take a walk. But yeah, if your kid is loving hockey, then that confidence, then that aggression will come in time and with reps. Or it won't worry about it at age seven, or it won't.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Yeah, that's okay too. Well, that's the problem.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Everybody's always like, Well, how am I gonna get my kid? I go, it doesn't he might not right. Well, it's not throw 20 kids on the ice and say, if you give them all the same environment, they're all gonna become the same player. They're not.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Let's talk about Bedard and McDavid real quick, right? Because like those are the those are the standard bars, right? Like Bedard and uh McDavid are known, it was like documented that at eight, nine years old, they were training for hockey all the time. It's all they cared about, it's all they did. But if you ask their parents, you can find these interviews of of like the McDavid saying, you know, Connor did that himself. Like, we didn't have to push him. That's all he wanted to do. In fact, we were there's one interview I read from his mom where she's like mildly like concerned, like, you're different than other kids, other kids aren't doing this. Now, the the point is this for the parents listening, you may want your kid to do that. In fact, the second half of the question is how do you push them to grow and compete harder without hurting their confidence or making them lose love for the game? You don't push them. That's first off, that's the coach's job to do that. All right, the other thing too is that they shouldn't need to be pushed if they're doing it on their own, right? That's fantastic, right? But uh Mike, you said it, Christy. You said it just now. Not every kid's gonna do most kids are not gonna do that. That is absolutely okay. It is absolutely normal. Now, again, a lot of gray area in this conversation. We all have to parent. Like, I'm not saying like if your kid is lazy, just let them be lazy. That's not what I'm saying. All right, I'm saying the the in you know, the incredible levels of drive and determination that you see from these NHL players, that's not normal.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Yeah, but that's why that's why statistics exist, right? That's why there is a statistic that says when players turn 13 years old, they quit sport because then they are you're like you can mask a kid's desire at six and seven. You can you can manipulate a kid to think that they have to do these things. You can keep because a no seven-year-old is gonna tell his dad to go, you know, pound salt. Like he's gonna go, okay, I gotta I gotta get up, I gotta work out, I gotta catch up, I gotta like again. But if that's not your player, and not every listen, like I said, I I I experience it every day. Like I see kids all the time. I'm like, oh my god, that kid is a different animal. Like that kid is crazy. Like he loves this. Yeah, and I'm always like, I wonder if that, like, like that, that and then you'll see the two parents like, I don't know what the hell is just crazy. Like he get he goes to the gym every day, he shoots every day. Like I come home from school and he's broken the garage door six times because he's shooting on it. Like, like, but but it's in the re in the reverse of the parent that says, Mike, how do I get my kid to get off the couch and go shoot? You can rhyme, but then that runs out, but that runs out.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

Yeah. And again, I agree with Lee. There is a there is a there is a we're in a different world than like when I grew up. Like, I was so bored, I did go out and play hockey. Like I was bored, but these kids aren't bored anymore. Like they there is no boredom. Like they could they could play video games all day, every day. Like so, or anything. They can do it's so many other things they can do, like in a different world than we lived in, that it's hard for a parent over the age of maybe 25 or 30 to see, like, oh, well, they don't they don't have the chance to get so bored they're gonna go out and do something.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Like, like Christine, I want to jump in too, because it I think it's about these crucial conversations you have with your kid. And I'll give you a great example. Most kids, most hockey playing kids, most if you say, Hey, what do you want to be when you grow up? I want to be an NHL player. I hear that all the time. Sure, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm all about kids having big dreams. All right, but I know conversations I've had with my own kids where I'll say to them, Well, look, saying you want something, and I don't just apply this to the hockey, all right. Saying you want something and doing the work it takes to have something are two very different things. And I'll say everyone says they want something, everybody wants to be rich, everybody wants to play in the NATO.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

I might be a NASCAR driver, but I hate driving.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

That's a problem. That's because he's from Tri-State area.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

You live in the tri-state area where you can't we don't get the race racetrack everywhere there.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

I inspire, I try and inspire, and this is why I say cultivate, you can't create, you can cultivate. I try and inspire my kids if you're serious about what you want, you will do the work, and I won't have to tell you. And then I'll always follow it up with and I'm here to help you, right? So if my and and look, look, I can always speak to my own experience. I've had some some positive responses to this where my son has said, Hey, I want to work on this aspect of my game. Can you help me? Yeah, I mean, not only is that the most rewarding thing in the world as a father and a coach, all right, but it's coming from him. I'm not doing that now. For everybody listening, of course, we have the conversations of hey, you gotta get up and practice if you want to get better. You you you gotta you gotta push a little harder. I watched you today, I didn't think that was your best effort. But I'm not focused on if you're not competitive, you're not gonna succeed. Sure. I'm focused on him as a human being. This is not really about hockey. I thought you had more to give today, and I think you did your best. Can we discuss that? And I never do that in the car ride home because the car ride is not, but it's so odd, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:39

That it that this is just a hot thing's a sport thing. Like, like if you like if your kid, because you say this all the time to your children, if they say, Oh, I want to be an honor roll student, oh just sit around and do nothing then. Like, don't go to extra credit, don't worry about opening a book, don't do, don't, don't, don't study. You'll be don't worry, you're a smart kid, you'll eventually become an artist. Like, like it's like it's just all of these things, like people want to become something, then you have to do the things that are gonna enable you to become that. And if your child is just somebody that's like, listen, I just want to have fun, I'm just out here, and and once you put me in a pressure situation, I kind of turn into this little butterfly and I don't I don't really get engaged. Well, then put them back into the place where they were engaged, and then and then eventually they will engage and surpass, or they won't. And so it's just it's just a hard, but I get it because it's so hard when it's your kid to look and be like, oh god, God, this can't be my kid. Like I look at my buddy's kid and he's doing this, and my kid's doing this. Like, you know, he's eating grass out in the field, and this kid's scoring soccer goals. Like, like it's just not fair. Well, it is what it is. So I think it's just a matter of, you know, put him in the and it's a really, really, really hard thing to do. There's no doubt about it. The FOMO piece is hard. That's right. You gotta be able to extract yourself from it and sit back. That's why I think that's why I love parents, like hockey parents that I work with that have nothing, like have zero idea about hockey. I they they just don't like, I don't know. Is he is he good? Is he good? I go, is he good? This kid's unbelievable. Like, like he's really good. But but just let him, but don't, you know, just just let him mature into it. Let like just keep him where he's at because he's having a great time. It's their journey, man.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Right, it's their journey, right. And and we've seen this when parents push too hard, kids can easily retreat. So, as a parent, you want to be that steady voice, you want to be supportive. You also want to be that person they turn to if they have to resolve emotionally. I mean, that's really important to be there for your kid. Like if they have no place else to turn, if they're not doing well out in the ice, it's uncomfortable for them. I really hate this. You want them to be comfortable to come to you and share that with you and say, okay, let's figure out this isn't making you happy, let's go in another direction. It's okay, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Well, and I'm gonna take it, I want to say this too. We have to acknowledge this, right? Because there is a dark side to this conversation as well. Because I have seen kids and adults whose parents did try and mandate competition and trying hard, and they forced the kid to try hard. And their kids, and and and Mike, you've seen this too. Their kids are sometimes really good, but they are psychologically really bad. Yeah, all right. And I'll tell you what, I I just in obsession, I'm not even talking as a father, right now, I'm talking as a coach. Uh, it is one it's gotta be the most heartbreaking thing as a coach when you see a kid burnout, uh, or worse, you see a kid that is unbelievably talented and hates to play, and that does exist. It does have seen it. Okay, I have met hockey players.

SPEAKER_03 37:46

I think we interviewed some of these people.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

We I have yeah, I've met pro players, pro that hate playing hockey, and it's because they were forced to do it. Now you can say, well, they got this great life. I don't think they do, they they are not in a good place, all right. And that is because of parenting, they were pushed too hard to the brink where their whole value set now with their with their loved ones is based on that, and it's not healthy. Um, and again, look, that's that's my position. I got I mean, look, there's no perfect parents have said that every show, right? Yeah, but I can tell you that your kid has to figure this out on their own with you helping to guide them, guide. Yeah, you can't do it with them. All right, again, we were joking at the beginning of the episode about the tri-state area. I have gone to every NHL team's rink in the area. You go to a ranger game, a flyers game, a devil. It's intense, it's very intense. I don't bring that to the eight-year-olds or the 10-year-olds. That's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

The Flyers aren't tri-state.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

You'd meant the Islanders, but yeah, I'm talking about the team that's probably gonna make the playoffs, Mike. Do we want to go there right now? The date, April 13th. Don't call me out if they don't make it. Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

But I think you're it this this is all true, this is all true stuff. I mean, it's like it's it it but again, the cautionary tale is wasted on the people that need to hear it. And that's a fan, and then and it it's just you know, because when you when you get into a room of a bunch of night uh parents of 19-year-olds that had elite athletes at seven, they're gonna have very, very different stories about what the end of the journey was. Um, but they're all gonna have the same start. My kid loved going on the ice. So continue to do that. Like just make sure they're you know in a loving relationship with hockey, and it's not an adverse relationship with you about hockey, right? And then things will work out whether it's hockey or not. Like it's just gonna give them a better base of where they end up going with the sport. It might end up leaving the sport, but having great memories of being in a sport. And I think that's kind of like hopefully the goal of all of us, right? That the the the old saying that like don't like you say it all the time, like don't be your child's last coach, or you know, or don't don't be don't don't have it be the last year of hockey because of what the of the decisions you made this year. And I think you know, we all as hockey people, we all want to see these kids keep progressing and and moving on, like you know, and and and because I I don't think anybody would say that they don't enjoy watching their kids play hockey. That's the best part of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Yeah, actually, I'm I'm enjoying it more as as my kids get older. Good to be honest with you, because it's it's you know, looking back on, especially for the person who wrote this, looking back at that age level, uh, there's so much unneeded stress at that age level. And as my kids gotten older, uh I've I've I've really settled in. Now, again, I've been such a beneficiary of this show uh in this process, but I am I'm enjoying them much more at the levels that they're at now than I did when they were mites. Uh, and and I I think a lot of that's just because like I'm not putting the pressure on it anymore, right? Um, I I think we also acknowledge it's normal to feel that pressure though, it in mite hockey, like it's just kind of comes with territory every parent is hovering a little too much, right? And they're all wondering what's gonna happen with their kid when they're 18. And I'm gonna say it just be present at seven, at eight, at nine. Don't be looking too far into the future. All right, again, the last question here how do you push them to grow and compete harder without hurting their confidence or making them lose their love for hockey? My answer to that is if you think they are losing the love for the hockey, back off completely. Yes, right, walk away. It's not it's not gonna work, all right.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Because that's the whole foundation of everything is their love for the game. Yeah, you don't have that, you're not building on anything.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yeah, and and again, uh the the confidence and the competitiveness. I I gotta say this, it kind of comes and goes sometimes. Like my son, even my daughter, some seasons she was more competitive than other seasons, and it just it's just kind of part of the journey, right? And I gotta say this too, uh, you know, especially for this one. When your kids, first off, when checking comes into the game, will change the how the game is played completely. And we always have I always like to remind parents of a below 14 U, you're playing a very different version of hockey than the game that is after hitting comes in. That's number one. Number two, man, there are a lot of distractions that come in 12, 13, 14, 15 years old away from the rank. All right, and that's real life stuff your kids are gonna be dealing with, right? And hockey might very suddenly not be the most important thing, or might become the most important thing. Like that, and I'm saying this because every kid's gonna go through this journey very differently. Like the confident, competitive kid at seven may continue to be that way, may not be that way by 15. By 15, they might not even want to play hockey anymore, they might want to play an instrument, they might want to do other things, right? So, just very important things to keep in mind. Uh, that this is a long journey. Stay present for the person who wrote this letter first. Look, let's compliment the person first off for even writing this letter. All right. The fact you wrote this and you're aware of this stuff, I think uh from a parenting standpoint, puts you light years ahead, right? Because you want to discuss it. The other thing I wanted to uh acknowledge in this letter, guys, before I forget, is this father uh got very vulnerable saying, and I I applaud this. He said, I said something to him I shouldn't have said. All right. So so to the person who wrote this, first off, hey man, I've done that too. Sure. All right, you're not alone with that. All right. I think at some point on the parenting journey, we all say things we wish we hadn't said. All right, but there's no perfect parents. That's true in marriage, too. Okay, we we we all say things we shouldn't say. Uh the fact that you acknowledge that and then even provided like the solution of you know, my wife did it this way, and this was a better way. Um, that's awesome. Because, and again, speaking as the dad of a 12-year-old, your kids will enrage you at some points in the future. I mean, enrage you, they will disrespect you, they will say things to you they shouldn't be saying, and you have to hold all of it in yourself to not take them and lift them up by their collar and say, Do you know who I am? No, I'm your father. That has not happened in my house, don't worry. Uh, but like that that's that's some competitiveness right there as well. But apply I really want to say that to the person who wrote this. It takes guts to write a letter like this, um, to say what you feel like you're doing right, you're doing wrong, and ask these questions. These are fantastic questions, all right, that that we love discussing on this show. Okay, so again, I think the advice here is just enjoy the journey, enjoy the game and put make sure your kids in an environment at that age where they're happy and they're succeeding and they're learning, and hopefully you have a great coach that's cultivating all of that, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:25

And you can do things to help them learn how to deal with the uncomfortable situations, the fluness factor, right? How to stay in them and even eventually how to thrive in them. That's a skill way bigger than a hockey, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:41

I love it. Christy, again, we've said it every episode for six years. The ROI on youth hockey is the life lessons. Anything else is a bonus. If you do anything in this game beyond that, it's a massive bonus. All right. Uh, and again, I know that from just going to softball games and how lax that is, right? It's like a totally different environment, at least for me, right? Compared to hockey. Uh I know there's intense people at softball too, don't get me wrong. But oh, there are. I know I know I've seen them too.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

I've seen them too.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

What I'm trying to say is that I'm amazed how relaxed I get in a different sport environment. And it actually makes me think about oh wow, I really do have two separate versions of myself, depending on where I'm at. And I don't want that. I want to be even keeled across the board. So that's actually helped me as well. And then Christy, you said it too. Uh Just kind of another answer to this question that has been asked today. Uh, this is something you got to practice, not just at the hockey rink. Um, I said it earlier about like having my kids talk to the waiters or the person that they're ordering from. Like, you're gonna experience uh interactions with your kids everywhere. So encourage them to interact, encourage them to communicate. Um, I am a big believer, and we struggle with this at times, but I'm a big believer, like the phones are down at the table. All right, to the to the point my kids call me out if I pick up the phone now, right? And I hear myself, no, no, no, it's just a it's just a work thing. And my daughter will go, Dad, put the phone down. The phone away. Right? And I'm like, you're she's right. She's right. Um, but great letter. Go ahead. Any final thoughts on this?

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Um, yeah, you can also help you because we we've talked about this, and so of you, Mike, about um acknowledging your feelings. That's not a bad thing to feel nervous. Don't dismiss them, but give them the tools to deal with that nervousness. You know, some sometimes these kids need structure um if they're overwhelmed by new situations. So give them some structure. So, you know, take a deep breath before you get into that situation. Take a sip of water, have a phrase in your mind. We've talked about this before, too. You know, I'm ready for skate, skate hard, some kind of a phrase that will help you kind of focus and be able to handle that situation a little bit better. Routine is good. Routine is good.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Yeah, I I like to say too, and and look, this it's probably isn't true for everybody, but I I say, and this is true for me, like, hey, as soon as you step on the ice, you'll feel great. Yeah, as soon as you get out there, you're gonna feel great. I love that. And and it's it for me, that's like anytime I was really nervous, I would say that, like, eight man, once you get on the ice, because it as soon as I step on, I'm a different person. Right. So it's like you know, that alter ego kind of thing of hey, once you just get out there, just get out there, you're gonna have a great time.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Right. Those small wins can flip that switch faster than any big pressure.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Yeah, all right. Uh representative of the tri-state area, you let us know uh what you thought.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

No, they're all they're all they're all great points. And again, I think we live in uh we live in an air, we live in a in a in a time right now where a lot of these things that that's that should be common sense are are like they're just overshadowed with you know just this desire to you know have a label or or be on the the right team at the you know at an early age. Again, it's just I think the most successful kids we find are the ones that are just you know they come out of nowhere and like, oh my god, this kid's just having fun, they're having a blast, and they're enjoying themselves. And you know, take all these little and again, you and and and we've said this a lot, right? You're your child's best advocate. You know your child the best. So tweak and use the tools that are available to you to figure out what works for your kids. Um, what works for my kids isn't gonna work for somebody else's kids. And you know, my motivation for for them playing might be different than your motivation. Whatever it is, just find and just realize that you know they're seven or they're 11 or they're 12 or they're going into puberty or like just put put yourself in a situation where you know they're a developing human being and they're not a fully functioning, you know, professional adult, which which they have their own issues as well. So I think it's just a matter of saying, just understand like where you know, where you're what do we say all the time? Like just just be you know, just just be aware where your feet are right now and and your son and your kids' feet, and then say, okay, well, where from based off of that, what is the plan uh for to to help them you know progress through uh a practice, a season, a career, whatever it is. If you go in and just wing it, it just there's a lot of there's a lot of missteps you can have if you don't think about it. And and like Christy's saying, you know, even write it down and think about it like and and and manifest what you want your you know what you want out of your child and help them, you know, find that find that path.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Mike, I'm I'm glad you brought up motivation to, you know, I think it's important for the whole audience. When I coach coaches, one of the things I often talk to them about is hey, do you know how each of your players is motivated? And and I I think I've said this before, but I always get this no, how do I do that? Well, you ask them how they're motivated. All right. Every you said it, Mike, you said it, every kid is different, every kid is motivated, motivated different. So, as parents, I always say, do not make the mistake of assuming that your kid is motivated the same way that you are, no matter how similar to you you think they are, they are a separate whole person. They're not you, like my kids are not me. I'm me, they're them. Um, and again, I want to know how they're motivated. And look, that has been hard for me because my son does not respond the way I respond to different types of motivation. I've had to figure that out. It's it's it's very frustrating. Whereas whereas actually my daughter's a little more on my wavelength with that, right? But I I don't I want to get along with both of them, and I do, don't get me wrong. So uh just remember that there's no path here, there's no answer that's gonna be true for every kid. You have to figure out what's best for your kid, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Tremendous letter.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

It was a good letter. Yeah, great letter. We appreciate it. Send more, we love tackling these questions. Yeah, that will be.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

And if you're in the tri-state area, just come have a beer with me and and uh and uh and and and and reach and you know let me know about right.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

And if you're from anywhere else in the world that listens to this show, because we can have the whole audience involved, Mike. Oh, that's such a tri-state answer. Anyway, Christy alluded to it. Uh, guys, we're always finding new ways to get you involved in the show. Uh, one of the cool things now is you heard me say it every episode. Obviously, you can always email us at team at architlyhockey.com. But uh there's some expanded options now. If that link in the description, not only can you text us, now we can message you back. Uh, you can also leave a voice message if you want to have your voice on the show, uh, or just tell us what it is so we can submit it on the show. Uh it's really never been easier to communicate with us. And I always like to say, too, just like this person, hockey dad in Connecticut, uh, we we will protect your name, obviously. If you do not want your name known, we will never put that on the air. We never have. Um, so just know that. If you want to communicate with us uh one-on-one, or if you just want to have a conversation on the air with us, let us know. We can do that. And uh always check out our kidsplayhockey.com. For all the episodes, you can search for the topics uh and find out what you want to hear from this group. That's gonna do it for this edition, though. For Christy Cashana Burns and Mike Vanelli, I'm Lee Elias. Thanks for watching or listening to Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at When Hockey Stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.