Our Girls Play Hockey: The Ice Time Conversation Every Family Needs

SPEAKER_01 1:15

This episode is powered by NHL Sense Arena. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of our girls play hockey. It's Lee Elias with Haley Skimora here today, and we're talking about ice time. Ice time. Do you get enough of it? Do you not get enough of it? There never seems to be enough ice time in the game. The only people not complaining about ice time, Haley, are the gold hunters. They get a lot of ice time, but that's what we're talking about today. Uh, specifically, those of you who feel, and to be fair, everyone feels this at some point during their hockey journey that I'm not getting enough ice time. So we're gonna explore the scenarios and the questions that surround that statement. I'm not getting enough ice time, or I guess my kids are not getting enough ice time, and how you can navigate those waters together. So, again, as always, bringing in Haley here. Haley, thanks for joining us. Again, authority on these topics. I'm sure actually you're a great authority on this topic. Yeah. Um, so let's start with this. When a player says, I'm not getting enough ice time, what's the first thing they're usually getting wrong in that statement?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I feel that it's they're focusing on the wrong thing. I think they need to kind of focus on what they're doing when they are on the ice and what they could maybe continue to work on in that sense.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Well, their retort would be, Well, I'm not getting on the ice enough, right? Like, like again, I'm I'm just I'm I'm being double back here on purpose, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Like true.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Like, like, so so Haley, that's great, but I'm only getting a shift a period, right? So, like what I mean again, what am I supposed to do with a shift a period? I'm setting you up for that answer.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

I hear you. Um, then you have to you have to show what you're capable of doing in that shift. And I think you just have to go out there, keep working as hard as you can, putting in the effort, um, you know, maybe blocking shots, getting pucks out, simple little plays, I think really add up to to eventually getting more ice time. Uh, but I think sometimes we uh we think we're playing less than we actually are.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah, that's a good point. And and let's evolve on this question, right? So the the the way it was worded is I'm not getting enough ice time. Okay. So then again, there's like a ladder here of maybe the best way to approach this. I think up the ladder, meaning getting a little bit better, would be going to your coach and saying, Hey, how can I earn more ice time? or or I don't feel like I'm getting enough ice time. How can I earn more more ice time? I'm gonna tell everybody listening, that's actually not the best way of looking at it either, but it's a better step because coach coach is probably gonna give you an answer, all right? But it's not enough, right? I think you have to be introspective first of really being honest with yourself of why the ice time is not there first. Okay, and I'll preface this. Well, I'll say it's not always fair, not every not all coaches are equal. Sometimes coaches don't do this correctly, all right. But you got to look at your own game and start saying, okay, what can I improve upon? Or as Haley said, if I do get ice time, what do I need to do? Okay, right. Give a great story, a great example. All right. Um, at one of the teams I coach, I do not have to give anyone ice time. All right, that's part of my job. That's the same thing at the Olympic level, at the pro level, okay. But I'm gonna explain to everybody um how this works with the youth level because I have sometimes youth level players on that team. Okay, so it's that is what happened. I had a youth player on the team. Um, one game, uh, she got a few shifts, and then uh she made a couple mistakes on the ice, and I sat her. And I by the way, I always talk to the players at some point before or after about why that happened. Sometimes in the moment, it's hard to do that. Okay. So the player was sat, thought she had a little bit of a bad attitude about it. Okay. And that was it. That was her game. She didn't play again that game. All right. Now, this is what she did correctly.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

I got a text later that night. Now I was I was going to reach out to her the next day, regardless. Okay, that's just how I am as a coach. But I got a text that said, it said, Coach, um, I'd I'd really like to have a conversation with you tonight about how I can improve my game in this time. Okay. Now that's the right question for me. All right. Because, and again, kind of understanding, it's not guaranteed, it's just I I want to learn, I want to know. Okay, so I sat down with her, and here's the thing it was an uncomfortable conversation, and that's the exact conversation that needed to happen. I am not gonna sugarcoat it, I'm gonna tell you exactly what I don't like. I told her I said, this is what I did not appreciate, this is what I did not like, this is what you have to leave behind, and this is what you got to bring. All right. And I and I actually said to her, now, youth coaches, just so you know, I would never say this to kids on a youth team. I this is a different, I gotta preface it, but I said, You need to make it impossible for me not to put you out there. Okay, that's that's where we're getting to. Um, next game came around, got some more ice time, executed. All right, she executed, didn't give her a ton, but she executed with the time. The the next game, I gave her a ton of special teams time on the PK, and she got out there, got stuck out there for two minutes, could not change, and was amazing the whole two minutes. So, in in 72 hours, we've gone from uh essentially being benched now leading the penalty kill and earning my trust back. That's how this can happen. Okay, and then I had a great conversation with her, not an uncomfortable one after the tournament, about how I was I admired her growth over the weekend, the curiosity, the honesty, the ability to have an uncomfortable conversation, but also the accountability, right? And that's the key. And we we talked about that a little bit too. About are you taking responsibility for what I'm saying, or are you just telling me what I'm saying is not true? Give you a quick one, parents. Like, I'm the decision maker. Not not that I'm not can't be wrong, but if I'm the decision maker, like you kind of have to make sure that I if I say something, it's probably coming from someplace, right? You got to justify what I'm saying. Uh, but that was the right way to handle it, in my opinion. And she earned more ice time through her actions and probably continued spot on the team. All right, again, a little bit of a longer story, but that's the right way to approach it. All right. In youth hockey, I mean, every kid should be playing at that point. I I don't know if you're under 12.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Yeah, you shouldn't be, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Like everybody should be blessed.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

All right. So so if you're uh how about this, Kelly, we should probably say this. If you're in a 12 viewer under and you're not getting a lot of ice time, and let's preface this real quick. I'm not saying the last shift of the game or the last five minutes of the game in a championship where you know everyone wants to win. All right, I'm talking regular season games consistently. If you're in a situation where you're not getting a lot of ice time on one of those teams and that was not agreed upon, run. Yes, all right, run from that organization, all right, or that coach. That is not appropriate. You should absolutely be playing, and and I mean, uh, probably most situations, right? Like every 50th PK and power play time on my teams, yeah. At at the younger ages, okay. Yes. Now over 12U, that conversation can change a little bit. All right. I still think you should be getting a ton of ice time at 14U, but situationally, that's when it starts to change. All right. Yeah. How about this, Haley? I think as soon as you man, this sounds really harshly, I'm gonna say it, but I think as soon as you hit the levels where kids can be cut from a team, that's when this conversation changes a little bit because now you really are chosen, right? Right. And I think that that comes with responsibility too, right? Like you you have been chosen for the last 20 years of your life, yeah, right. I mean, yeah, how does that change when you know they can sit you? They know they can put you down. Or again, in in your case, Haley, and again, we can get into this 13th forward. We've said it a million times on the show. Yeah, you ended up getting a ton of ice time, right? So talk to me about that. You know, you know that's possible. How do you approach that?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Uh, I mean, I think for me, the biggest thing is that you can't really focus on ice time because that is out of your control. It's the coach's decision. And the only thing you can control is your effort and your attitude. Um, so let's say, like, you're on the bench more often, and you know what? You're you gotta cheer your teammates on. You gotta like watch what's going on on the ice, you gotta yell to your teammates while they're on the ice, let them know if they have time, let them know if there's a pass, let them know if someone's coming on them quick. Like, there's so much you can do on the bench to impact the game.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Um, let's say you notice a teammate struggling, you're on the bench the more, you can probably see it more because you're not as focused about getting on the ice. So you can talk to that teammate when they get back to the bench. And I think by having a good attitude, you're helping lift your teammates up. And that's something the coach is also going to take note of and be like, wow, this kid has a great attitude. I'm gonna get him out there when I can, right? Like they're less likely if you're sitting there pouting on the bench and upset about your ice time and refusing to help anyone on your team, they're less likely to want to put you back out there. So I think those two things are something you can control and something that makes a great teammate and ultimately could eventually lead you to have more ice time. But if it's just not meant to be, um, maybe your skill sets aren't necessarily needed out there as often in that game, then you have to just control the controllables.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Uh yeah, yeah. I I love you brought up attitude. Like I'm gonna give again more youth hockey perspective here. Uh as a coach, you know, you can go even beyond youth hockey with this. You know, players, you got to understand you know what passive aggressive behavior is and how it does not work in a coaching environment. All right. So if I have a player who's just not getting a lot of ice time or even getting a lot of ice time, to be honest with you, and they're sulking on the bench and they're looking upset. And I'm not saying you don't have a right to be upset, by the way. You can feel whatever emotions you want to feel. Yeah, but when I'm looking to put a player on the ice, if I see somebody hunched over and not engaged, players, I mean, put yourself in a coach's position. How am I gonna put you out there? Like I can't do it, I can't confidently do it. And and and I'm gonna say this too, uh, to all the parents out there and the kids. I don't know too many coaches that are gonna feel sorry for you in that moment, and I'm saying that very bluntly. All right, and this is true in youth hockey too. If a kid doesn't look like they want to be out there in youth hockey, I might try and encourage them a little bit more. I think in high-level hockey, it's it's not, I'm not supposed to encourage that. You should just be in that mindset. Yeah, parents, watch your kid on the bench. Like, are they hunched over, shoulders down, head down? Would you put that kid on the ice? Right? So, what Haley's saying about being a great teammate, everyone can do that, right? And it does impact the game, and it does impact how coaches make decisions, yeah. So I I think that's a really good one. And again, if there's kids listening, what passive aggressive is is when you're when you're trying to showcase an emotion to get a response, that's kind of passive aggressive behavior. I'm I'm looking sad to try and let my coach know I'm not happy. It's I don't know too many passive aggressive coaches. Okay, so that it's not a good one. Uh, adversely, coming up to a coach every 10 seconds, when can I play? When can I get there? When can I get out there? That's also not a great tactic. Just be engaged in the game. That's what I'm looking for. A player that's engaged in the game. All right. Um, know that. So good stuff. Um, here's one for you, Haley. Maybe you knew this your whole career, but when did you realize you know earning ice time is more than just about scoring goals? Because I think that's a common youth thing of well, I didn't score, that kid scores all the time, that's why they're getting all the ice time. Um and look, and look, maybe there are, I mean, I know there are. There's youth coaches that well don't have the hockey IQ to realize that's not the only thing either, right? Sometimes they just go with their horses like that. But when did you realize that? And did that change your game at all? Like in terms of of the ice time equation versus you know the traditional reasons for a player getting ice time.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

I don't know if I I don't know if I ever noticed it in that way. I always just felt like I focused on my game. But to be honest, I didn't really have too many experiences with getting benched or um or anything like that. I'm trying to think, like, I mean, maybe with my dad, I probably honestly, like in my youth hockey days, that's probably the most I got benched. Probably your hardest coach you ever had. Most likely. Yeah. Um, and those were usually over just like, you know, effort or mistakes or things like that, like too many turnovers or you know, who knows, right? But I think that's probably the only time I really got benched. And then um in college, uh, that was never really a thing. We had enough players where no one was really being benched, I would say. Uh, we didn't really have healthy scratches or anything like that. Um, I think, and then with USA hockey, just my role has been just usually less slice ice time in general, just with the nature of it and where I've been utilized and and how I've been utilized. And uh to be honest though, I would be on that team and just sit on the bench if I needed to. Like I would do whatever it took, you know, to be on that team. And I've just always kind of had that mindset and you know, was aware of you know that I need to perform really well in order to get ice time at that level because of where I am in the lineup. But um, I've enjoyed the challenge of that and I I've enjoyed my role doing that.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

So let me ask you this. Um, how have coaches communicated with you? Like, like taking in into con taking into that you said I understand my role. How do they communicate with you about that role? How do they communicate? And and you can go backwards here, like you can go from before the Olympics. Um how have they done it well is what I should be asking.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, I would say sometimes a lot of coaches don't necessarily explicitly say your role. And I would say that is a little confusing.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Um, and you usually kind of have to figure it out on your own based on context clues in a sense. Like uh, I mean, in college, my role was kind of everything. I did PK, I did power play, I, you know, was on in the last minute of the games, like different things like that. And you just kind of knew that was your role because you're going on the ice. And um, in high school, you know, it was kind of the same thing. Like first two lines, you kind of know your first two lines. Like it's pretty obvious. I would say when your third and fourth line are being jumped like jumbled a little bit more, maybe sometimes you don't want to admit that you know what your role is. But I think it's usually pretty clear what your role is. Yeah. Um, but I would say like for coaches, I just think honesty is the way to go. I think you you set a player down like individually, obviously not in front of the team or in front of other people, but just say, you know, this is where we have you. You're like the 12th or 13th forward. You know, we we really love like your defensive play and how you are on the PK. And how we feel that we can kind of slot you in on any line, you give that line energy and different things like that. So I think you can kind of focus on the positives in that role while also being very clear where they stand on the team. Um, and personally, like I prefer that. I would like I like honest communication and feel like that sets the player up for success because then they know they're not guessing, they're not like, oh, is he putting me out? Is he putting me out? And you're like wondering, you know. Right. Uh so I think for me, those are the the best conversations that I've had surrounding that. And I would say that's been with USA hockey.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Yeah, well, and you would hope it would be at the most elite level possible. Yeah. I mean, uh and when I'd say to coach, you know, if Mike Manelli was here, he'd say in youth hockey, like, you pick the kids, you picked them. Coach, you pick the kids, right? So, like, you gotta use them, you gotta play them, and you gotta explain things to them. Um, I I think uh from a coaching standpoint, youth hockey communication is lacking. Um, I I do understand the pressures that even volunteer youth coaches are under. I mean, parents want to win, kids want to win. I I understand it. You gotta communicate, and you gotta communicate really well. Yeah, all right. Uh, and and I find that uh when it comes to ice time, the biggest mistake coaches make is not communicating and not talking. And the kid kind of goes wayside. And and I'm not talking about the troublemaker kid, all right. I'm kind of more talking about maybe the quiet kid that that you're not taking the time on and and and being patient with. The other thing is patience, right? Um, coaches, I understand the fear of putting one of we'll just say the lower skilled kids out in a closed game. I yeah, I get it, I get it, but but the the duty of being a coach in development has to trump the fear of losing the game. Yep. All right, and here's the question I've been in this position. It's like you're late in the game, it's a one-goal game, and you're looking down the bench, and your top players a little exhausted, you get and you gotta you gotta pick a couple players to put out there. Yeah, I see this all the time. It's just okay, you two go. It's not it. You should go down to let's just say they're defensemen. You should go down to them and say, Listen, this is a big shift coming up. Yeah, I believe in you guys, and I want you to make sure you protect the front of our net and not let anybody get to our net. That's your job. This shift. Can you do that job? Right? Or whatever variation of that. Maybe you don't tell them it's a big shift. Maybe you just tell them here's what I want you to do. This shift. The amount of times I've done that, and kids turn to me and go, Okay, coach, I can do that. Like message received, yeah, right. And and here's why it's important. And this kind of almost goes into the next question a little bit, which is if you don't tell them that, and they deem that ice time is earned through scoring goals, you might have a D try and skate the puck end to end while you're winning late in the game to try and score because that's what they think they want that you want to see. This is true, right? So that that brings me to this next question, which is what's one thing players do that they think earns them more ice time, but actually hurts their chances.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Honestly, a big one I think is trying to toe drag at any blue line. Yeah, yeah, you amen, sister. Say that that way. I mean, high risk, low reward, I don't know, whatever the whatever the phrase is, but that is high reward, I think is the one. Yeah, just thank you. Thank you. Yeah, like that is not it. Like, even if you do succeed in that move, the risk is is too great. It's just not worth it. Um and yeah, I think that also decreases the coach's trust in putting you out there in key situations because turnovers at those lines are critical.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah, yeah, there's stats for it.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

All right, yes, literally.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Parents, Ailey. Let me tell you what we're thinking when your kid does an amazing toe drag and succeeds at the blue line. Okay, so again, the scenario is they've done this and it worked. Yeah. Actually, let me start with what my reaction isn't. Yeah, it's not, hey, unbelievable move. Wow. Yeah, wow, you should do that every time. It is almost always got away with one there. All right, it drives us nuts. Okay, it drives us nuts. Now, again, I don't think there's ever a time to do that. I think the only time that it makes I don't even want to say sense. The only time it doesn't kill me inside is if I know there's like two support players there. We have a defended situation. I am far more excited at the blue line. This could be either blue line. I see a player. We we we always say pass glass or skate, right? Yep, and it means it's off the the boards, you're passing it or you're skating it through over the blue line. Yep. Sorry, I'm having like PTSD here because I'm instead of like toe jack before they're over the blue line. You know what I told my team last week, Haley. Um, high-level team again. I said, I I told them I want you all to think about uh hockey. We talked about hockey IQ in our last episode. I want you to think about when that puck is a centimeter over the blue line, yeah. Coming out of our defensive zone. I do have to say that, right? So we're coming out of our D zone. The puck is let's say an inch out of think about all the things that have to happen once it's an inch outside of our zone. There's there's got to be a defensive regroup, there's got to be a back check, there's got to be uh so many things have to happen for the defensive team in that situation or the other team in that situation. Whereas if you lose it on the blue line, your team is now in that situation, right? So again, not to lose my mind here, but but kids, parents, it does not make sense for you to make any move on that blue line, yeah. It's dangerous, right? Right. That's how you get benched, yeah. That's how you don't earn ice time now. Adversely, to your point, yeah. If I I'll just say lesser skilled, I don't love that term, but I'm gonna say it. If I have a kid that I know will get that puck out every time, yeah, I'm putting that kid out every time, every time, especially late in the game, if it's one of those situations, yeah, right. Will they mess that play up every once in a while? Sure, but I'll take the one out of ten mess ups over the nine out of ten mess ups that they're trying to tow jack. And again, same thing at the the the far blue line or the offensive blue line, like trying to make a move before you're in the zone, right? Same thing with my team recently, and they and my team really executed this of the plays that you have coming into the zone, or you can skate and delay, wait for your linemates, you can you can shoot the puck on net, right? And I actually said the last option is to dump it. That's not even that's not the first option that we want, right? Right, or curl back, but do not lose the puck in that area, establish a fore check. The kids that can do that are valuable, and I'm gonna say this again. Sorry, I'm getting I'm having like I'm having like topics. Listen, the amount of kids that I have coached that have tried to make moves that not even just the blue line, but even we'll say five feet inside the blue line because it's just as bad, and lose the puck, like you're gonna lose your ice time, right? You're gonna lose your ice time, you're you're it's dangerous, right? And parents, I know you might be telling your kids this till you're blue in the face. Continue to tell them, yeah, show them video, show them on a board. Coaches, it is really your job to explain to them the the uh uh situation and why waiting for their teammates or or being patient with the puck is valuable and will and use the term will earn you money. More ice time.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

You can tell kids that I'm gonna read it at what it said. A little hit sounds a little hypocritical in terms of everybody should play it, 12 U and under, but you can say earn more ice time at that age. Nothing wrong with saying that. Okay. I I think you should do that. So anyway, yes, that's a great, it's a great one that they think is gonna help them. It actually hurts them. I think another one that they think is gonna help them and actually hurts them is I've got to get points. Yeah, I've got to score points. Usually that point is a goal in their mind.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Always remind kids assist, you got a better chance of getting assist than a goal. Yeah, just saying, right? Um, I I don't think you should base it on points. And and Haley, you've been very open with us on the show about uh your struggles, not with so much points, but but with that mindset of what you thought people were looking for, and then how you switched it. I I would just for the nature of maybe this is someone's first episode, just quickly revisit that about kind of how your mindset was, how you flipped it, and then and then I mean, obviously the results of that are very clear, right? Literally, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

It was uh last season, uh like the season before when I was starting at Ottawa, and then I got traded to Toronto. But during that season, I didn't have a point for the first whole half of the season. And every game I was just so frustrated and like, why am I not getting points? How do I get more points? Like, I couldn't not think about it. And then the more I was thinking about it, the harder I was trying, the less points I was getting. It just wasn't working. And then I got traded, and then I still wasn't getting points. And then I like again, that was my only focus. I didn't think about any other detail of the game. And, you know, eventually I did get a few points, but it wasn't my greatest season. I wasn't in the greatest headspace. And so that next season, my goal was to just put myself in positions to get points and to just focus on the little things in my game that I do well and continue doing those things. And I knew that it would eventually lead to production in some sense, whether that was me or my teammates getting points. Like that's how I viewed it. Like maybe I my shift sets up the next line to get a goal. And that is a point for me. I don't care what it says on the board.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

And by doing that in my last year, I did so much better. I felt a lot better after games. I wasn't overanalyzing how many points I got or even thinking about how many points I had. And clearly, you know, it worked. I have a gold medal now in a Walter Cup championship. And uh I can honestly say, like the whole time I was not worried about getting points. I really wasn't. Like I remember I had like my first multi-point game and I was like, oh, I did. Like I didn't even realize it. And that was such a cool realization because I was like, oh, finally, like I've let go of this like of this need. And I think it, I think it started when the pro league became a true pro league where you're getting contracts and things like that. I think that put a different kind of pressure on feeling like I needed to get points in order to be valuable.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Um, and now I don't feel that way. I know there's so much value in so many other things that I do and the way I play and the way I lead and the way I carry myself at the rink. Um, I think all of those things factor into that. And then the points will come if they come, but it's not something I'm like honed in on and focused on anymore.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

No, and again, I love that you said like you're getting traded, you're moving around, like your value was going down.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Right. And like, let's be honest, like your value was dropping, not you as a human being, but you as a hockey player.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Right. And it's like when you stopped worrying about that, it didn't. I mean, it was a rocket ship up.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Right. If I'm not mistaken, Haley, uh, last season, career year in points, and both both internationally and PWHL.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

And it was the it, well, let's not say it was the last thing we were thinking about, just wasn't the focus, right? Correct. Like you said, creating chances, like you said. I I think that's such an important lesson for kids. Like, you don't have to be an Olympic gold medalist to start thinking that way on your team.

unknown 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Right. And Haley, I'm sure you would to the kids, right? I'm sure you would say to them, Hey, look, you don't have to wait. Like, this doesn't have to happen at that level. You can do this now.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Um, let me ask you this question adversely. Uh, where do you think this could be big for the kids? Where do you think that fear stemmed from? Right now, again, I understand what the fear was, right? But like, like it's gotta come from somewhere. The thought of, well, if I don't get points, I'm not valuable, right? Where do you where do you think that came from? That's kind of a deeply psychological question, to be fair to you.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

But yeah, I mean, honestly, you hear it all the time. You hear it when NHL analysts are talking about players, or like, like, for example, Connor McDavid in the playoffs, they were like, oh my god, he doesn't have a goal, he doesn't have a goal. The guy had assists in every single game. I'm like, he's still impacting the game. Are we serious right now? Like, and so you just hear the way they talk about players, and it's all about points because it's an easy stat to obviously look at and to analyze and whatnot, right? But I feel like there's just so much more to the game that's not talked about enough, and all we focus on is whether the person's getting gold or not. And I think that sets like kind of an unhealthy precedent in terms of uh how a player is impacting their team and how they're helping their team. I just think uh it's unrealistic and it's kind of ridiculous at times, but I'll never forget that. It was this playoffs, and I'm like, are they serious right now?

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Like, well, it it's because you're viewing it as a as a professional, right? Yes, I think which you're making a great point about the noise out there.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

There's a lot of noise out there, and when we think about it as as kids, like like, well, how do you deem a good player? Well, that guy had a hundred points last season. Well, right, there's a lot of players in the league that didn't have a point, and in yeah, again, you have to have some production, don't get me wrong. It the problem, but you know, the other key thing here is that uh I say to the youth coaches, you can fall on that trap too. You can really fall on the trap trap. I see this every year of well, I'm only putting the kids out a score. It's you're not developing you're not coaching, you are you are managing points, you're doing math at that point. It's got to be more than that. And I love that you brought it up like that. You know, one of the ones I remember since you brought up McDavid, this is actually kind of way back now. But when you think about the uh the back-to-back Pittsburgh Penguins Cups of uh was it 17, 16, 17, 17, 18? I think it was 1617. Um Crosby won the MVP. I remember people going, what? Like going crazy. And then it was kind of like, well, he was he was like the most defensive forward in this series. And people were oh, they're just trying to give it to him because he I'm like, no, he really was the best defensive forward on the ice. Like he won, he I should say, he helped to win that cup by his defensive play, yeah. Right. This is Cindy Crosby we're talking about, yeah, known for his points. Yes, right. And it was funny the rejection of no, he's not a defensive forward. Um, he can't be the MVP of these things. It's like, man, first of all, that's voted on by some pretty notable people that maybe know what they're talking about. Yeah, but I'm bringing this up because yeah, that that is that is a really interesting point. That where does that come from? Well, we hear it all the time. Yeah, so it's on us as coaches and parents. I'm gonna say it too, to make sure that we're recognizing, and you gotta do it, you can't just say it. Recognizing other types of play. Yeah, the shutdown D on your team should be celebrated, yeah. Right, really, right? And and and say things to them like, you know, when you shut them down, that's less shots of uh against our goaltender who's a great goalie. I'm sure you're I'm sure our goaltender appreciates this too, gang. Right? Like these are the things that help build bots like that.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Okay, so well, there's also well, I just had another thought in terms of the points, like the best defensive award in the NHL goes to the D who has the most points, right? It's another it's another underlying thing where it's like, is it really going to the truly the best defenseman? Like if we're going by that. So I don't know, there's just a lot of little things in the game that I feel like we highly value and put up there, and yeah, but we don't yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I I'll say it too that if you're if you're really coaching a defensive D that doesn't get a lot of points is just invaluable, all right. Yeah, now look, there are D that do get a lot of points and do both sides of it well, uh, which is which is great.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

But I think I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Like what what what about the center that plays it's basically a defenseman, right? And stabilizes that line, it's invaluable. But I I do think elite coaching, elite coaches see that. Yes, and and and as you get to higher levels, you can see that. But I would challenge youth coaches, you can see it too.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

You just gotta want to see it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

And just start like supporting it on the bench or like pointing it out to the team, like, hey, we loved this extra effort from this forward blocking this shot or getting the puck out in this moment. Like, I think there's little things you can do like that that make those little plays valuable the way they deserve to be.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Well, the last thing I'm gonna say, Hillia, I'll let you kind of have the closing thoughts on this is a note to the parents. Okay. We've all heard that kind of analogy now that when it comes to school, uh nowadays it's more the teacher's fault than the kids' fault. Now, when I was growing up, if anything went wrong, it was my fault. Okay. In in from kindergarten to 12th grade, I only remember one time my parents defending me on something that a teacher accused me of. And the only reason they defended me is because they saw me do the work, like they actually physically watched me do it, right? But it was never, it was never the teacher's fault when I was growing up. Yeah, okay. So when it comes to ice hockey, yeah, if your kid's not getting a lot of ice time, all right. I gotta reiterate again. I'm not I'm not so much talking 12U. If your kid's not getting a lot of ice time at 12U, you should talk to someone about that. That's not correct, okay? But if your kid's not getting a lot of ice time, careful how quickly you blame the coach. You're not on the bench, you do not know what was or was not said, and you're definitely not seeing the game the same way the coach is seeing it. Even if you played PWHL, NHL, I mean you should know you didn't see whatever the coach saw. It might be a misunderstanding, right? Make sure you encourage your kid, the kid, to have a conversation with the coach that is a curious growth-led conversation. Parents, if you come to me about your kid's ice time, and it's happened, Haley, I've been yelled at, I've been cursed at. I don't remember one scenario where that's helped your kid. No, not one time has to help the kid. I mean, not you know, or a player, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

All right. The player has to speak to me. And you should be encouraging your kid to have those communication skills and that conversation with me. Do you have to agree with what I said? No, you don't. You don't. Okay. I do hope though I'm gonna give you some constructive feet constructive feedback that's gonna allow you to do something, and then the other side of it, coaches, you've gotta be a person of your word. Okay? If you tell a player to do these three things, and it'll earn you more ice time, and they do those things and they do them well, and you don't give them ice time, you're you're a freaking hypocrite. Now I'm kind of talking like as a former player.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Now you've manipulated that kid. And that's not good either. I will say all of these things happen. All right, I just not a perfect coaching world, but I just wanted to say that. Like the kid has to advocate for themselves. Coaches, you have to you have to make sure you're you're being honest with them. Okay. Either side of that gets broken, team's broken.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Okay, sorry. I'm on off my pedestal.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Haley.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Uh final thoughts on ice time.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

I just, you know, it's funny. I just have seen sometimes kids just focus on it so much. Like at a summer camp, they're like, I'm not getting on the ice enough. I'm like, we're literally like rolling the lines, like, I'm not doing anything. Like that happened in the spring league. I coached one time. I'm just opening the door and the parent came over to yell at me about ice time. I'm like, your kid chose to sat sit here. He's tired. I don't know what to tell you. Like, I it was wild. And so I just feel like we focus on it so much. And I'm like, you're on every other shift. I'm not sure what else you need here. Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Um sorry, it's like it's like when you have two lines for whatever for whatever reason there was a quick shift, and the kid goes, That was only like 20 seconds. It's like, you're up next. You're up next up.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

That happened. They're like, they're like, they had a minute shift, our ours was shorter. And I was like, Well, just that's when the whistle went, and it's just time to change and you'll get a shift. It's just how it goes. Um and like, so truly, like there are times where I feel like those kind of things happen. And it's really important to not overanalyze it or overthink it and think it's because of you. It's like it's just the nature of the game. Sometimes there's a whistle and you have to change, or else that line could get stuck out there too long.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

So you have to change before you're tired. Like there's just little things like that. So not to overthink it. I think having a great attitude and controlling your effort are the things you can focus on and ultimately could lead you to get more ice time if you feel you're not getting enough ice time. And I think it's super important to be able to have those conversations with your coaches yourself. I think that sets you up for hockey and in life having those kind of difficult conversations.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

I think that the the the point of the sphere sphere, sphere that we're talking about here is, you know, everyone, the coaches, the players, parents, I put the team first. Everyone has to do that. It can't be some of them. Teams got to be first. It's not just about you. Um, and I think that that is the crux of the whole thing. Hell yeah, another great episode. I think that people will learn. Uh, for those of you listening out there, if you want to yell at me about anything I was gonna say, you're more than welcome to do that. Uh, or if you want to agree, team at our kidsplayhockey.com is the email. You can also text us using the uh link accompanying this episode showed in the description. Again, disclaimer because a lot of you have been texting. I only get a short amount of characters to text you back. So if you want to have a real conversation, email me. Uh, but for those of you that have been sending all the messages of how much you love the show, please know I want to write you a book back. But thank you so much. I'll send you exactly what I can. But that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Girls Play Hockey. Hayley Skimura, once again, thank you for being here. I'm Leah Lias. We will say you in the next episode. Everybody have fun, skate hard, enjoy the game. Have a good day, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at WhenHockeystops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.