“Control Your Kids!” The Real Role of Coaches and Parents in Youth Hockey

SPEAKER_01 1:15

This episode is powered by NHL Sense Arena. Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of our kids play hockey, or you could call this one, we're coaches that coach hockey. It's Mike Benelli and Leo Lyos with you today. And today's gonna be a little bit of a coaches episode. Mike and I have been talking. And parents, we've got to have a discussion with you. Don't worry, this is not gonna be a negative or a griping episode. What we're talking about today is controlling the kids. And Mike and I have both experienced as coaches a parent or a fan or someone coming up to us and yelling, hey, control your kids. Well, the truth is, while we coach these kids, they're not our kids, they're your kids. All right, so we want to have a little talk about the village that it is of youth sports, of youth hockey, where the coach plays a role in that, where the parents play a role, where the team plays a role, to controlling, reprimanding, supporting all the words you can fill in there, the kids. So I'm gonna throw it over to Mike because Mike, again, another brilliant topic from you. Why don't you talk about the story or something that happened to you that gives a really concrete example of why we're talking about this today? And again, parents, coaches, everybody listening, don't worry. This is gonna be a good episode, like a fun episode. We're just uh we're setting the table. We got to get those views, right? We gotta set it up the right way. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Right. But you're but also you're also it's it's like it's also you know, coaches don't don't you can't take the unearned valor, right? You can't be like, oh my god, that kid is an unbelievable kid. You're like, yeah, he is, he's my developed.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

I've been coaching him for three months.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

I've been coaching in three months. Um I think, yeah, so I think I think it comes from it comes from the side, but I think when you coach sports, you become like the hub of that community, right? For lack of a better term. I mean, and sometimes it's you know, I don't know, I've seen a lot of teams where you know, maybe that that kind of you know leans into like the manager or or other support people that help you on the team, but ultimately it becomes like everybody looks as the coach of the team, whether you're coaching a nine you team or a you know a college team, right? They you walk in like, oh, there's the coach, that's the leader of the group. So as the group goes, the coach gets blame or credit.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Mostly blame. Not a lot of credit. It's like the it's like the you know, the goalie who wins the game one-nothing, the guy who scored the one goal gets the credit, right? Not the goalie so much. So it's it's it's uh you know, and this comes up over and over and over again. And I I think for me, like I really try to caution parents that are on my teams that although I love being a support person and I want to be that uh you know, sounding bored, and uh uh, but but at the same time, you know, I expect you guys to parent your your children, and I'll parent my children.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Yeah, it look it's a it I always say it takes a village, at least that's how I approach my season. I think it's about clearly representing also like what are the roles, what is the role of the coach? Something I say at the start of each season, especially in the younger group, I'll explain how I do this with older groups too. But if it's we'll just say 12U and down, all right, I have no problem telling the families I am not a babysitter, all right? I am a hockey coach. And my job, Mitch, like much like your teacher at school, is to teach these kids. And I expect them to have their good behavior and to have some standards set. And we, and I use that word purposefully, all play a role in that. Look again, give you another good example. Uh, we're recording this in late July. So a lot of season prep is starting now. You might be about to enter your summer skates, you might be in the season when you're listening to this. The point is this I set standards very early and I communicate them in a way, Mike, that you're talking about. I will send the parents a message of I expect your children fully dressed 10 minutes before a practice. All right, so we can go over drills. And then I'll I'll I'll kind of I don't want to say hints, but I'll kind of give the cue of please use this and say that I'm asking for this to teach them responsibility. Use it, use it. Hey, coach wants you there and he wants you to be dressed 10. I'm I'm trying to give you a tool to keep them accountable. Now, the truth is, and and let's this look, I'm guilty of this once or twice as well. Is sometimes parents just show up late too. Like they're the ones that are causing everybody to be late. There's a lot of different reasons for that. Sometimes it's traffic, sometimes it could be getting out of work late. There's a lot of legit reasons, and I've said, just text me. Just text me if you're gonna be late, or have your kid text me on your phone, coach. It's XYZ. We're gonna be late. We hit traffic. Even if you're lying, do it. All right, just because it sets a standard, it sets responsibility, and it's not so much Mike that we're taking it off of ourselves. To me, this is what we're providing. We are giving you a calendar, standards, be prepared, be ready to compete. And I'm saying is I'm trying to give the parents and the guardians tools to bring those standards to the rink.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

All right, you're you're you're getting you're getting the support, like you're you're setting it out there so that the parent can support you, but you can support them. Like you're you're giving the read you're giving the the window of opportunity for the whatever, you know, depending on the age you're coaching. You know, now the kid can be like, mom, I have to be there right like at 750. Like I've got to be dressed and ready. So I've got you know, we've got it now. Let's let's like you know, we've talked about this before, right? Now start doing the the the math, right? Like, oh no, how long does it take you to get dressed? How long does it take you to get into the rink? Is there parking? Like and go back to the case.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

That's their responsibility to your point. Like, that's this is what we're talking about. Like, it's not my responsibility as a coach to teach your kid those things. To me, that's that's the family's responsibility. That doesn't mean you can't ask. Like, I'm always willing to help, right? But if if a kid is consistently late, I'm not gonna point the finger at the teaching myself, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

And I think for me, it's more of the it's more of the like it's it's for me, it's the it's the kid, you know, where you're you're at the rink and the kids running through the hallway, and yeah, somebody shoots a puck into the you know vending machine or something and you get yelled at, like you're the coach. Coach, what's wrong with your kids? And that's where I'm like, well, first of all, yeah, that is their mom right there. That's the mouth. But you know, but I I'm yes, but uh but ultimately I think it's just a matter of if you lay out like you're doing, like and you're laying out these standards of you know, how do you behave in the in the rink and in the locker room and in the pro shop and around restaurants and on road trips, like then you you can help get support from the person really who's hopefully you know reinforcing those lessons every day at home too. Like you rarely well, I just shouldn't say rarely. I I I like I've seen I've been I I've been coaching teams of kids that when they're with me, and then I see them go with like their soccer coach in a different setting. Yeah, they're hundred they're a completely different kid. Yeah. Like like I and because I set the standard on and I I I I I enforce my standard, and it's all of a sudden like the animals are loose in the barn over here on this side because that coach didn't have any standards.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

And so the kid, so at the end of the day, like, am I like yes, the kids are being controlled, but I'm not tea like in my small way, I'm hoping to send a lesson to the kid, but ultimately, when you look at that player, that person, that's the whole of their upbringing. Like that's the whole of the parent. So if they're misbehaving here and and and and angels over here, then you can't blame the individual coach, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah, well, look, I'll I'll also say the flip side of this. Like I keep I keep saying it takes a village, right? It is on the coach to provide some of these uh guidelines, like enforcing standards and creating standards, that's that's the village part. If you have a coach that has no standards, um, you know, that's to me that's a shame, right? That's part of coaching is to help teach those barriers of be here on time, be prepared, uh, you know, compete at your best, learn something today, get a little better every day. Like that's coaching. Trying to help a kid or an adult find the best versions of themselves. To me, that's the true definition of coaching, right? In and outside of sport. So that's just the first one is that that parents, if you have a coach that's giving you the tools you need to build a better person at home, take them, take them. Because it's I'll be honest with you, it's you're not gonna I could always get that help, right? There's some people, there's agents that work against that, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

But my well, and if you have if you have 15 other families and 15 other kids in the room and they're supporting each other in the same way, and they're and the rules and the expectations are being reinforced around the table, it's just much easier then to teach those things.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Well, and and and and just kind of closing the point I made to begin with, that's why I established this right at the start of the season. And I don't mean like the start of the regular season, I mean the first 10 touch points I have with a team, I'm setting the standards. So this goes back all the way to like our pre pre-eval skates, like be on time, be prepared. Now, I'm not strict in the sense of being mean to the younger kids, but it's standards. And I tell the parents I expect these to be enforced, and I'm a little harder at the start of the season on them because by the end of the season, they have them down, right? And you're always gonna have slip-ups here and there. That's okay. Like, I also have a little more uh, what's the word, room for for uh improvement uh throughout the season now. But that's one of the things I do when I start with. Now, when it comes to the the older players where maybe parents are less involved, um, I expect the standard from the start. And if you don't match the standard, um then I will have to take disciplinary action. But at that point, I'm not hearing from people control your kids, because I have the ability to remove a kid if they are really beyond the point of repair, okay? Does not mean I won't try my best to get them back. All right. But moving on again, we're talking about just how you know we get blamed for a lot of things. That's like the pregame being on time, parent blaming the coach environment. What about the games, the practices? You you brought up a good one with the vending machine. I mean, look, we are not the caretaker for 20 kids, right? And kids are kids. At some point, a kid is going to make a horrible mistake on the ice and let their emotions out, maybe throw a punch, maybe throw a stick, do something stupid. And the ref comes up to us and goes, Hey, control your kids. And it's like, I'm like, I'm trying, man.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

During during during during COVID, you know, we picked a lot of teams, sight unseen. And my particular team was kind of put together uh by kids that like some kids I didn't even know, right? And we get to the first game, and we I had a player lost his mind, flipping the bird to the other team. He's riding his stick in a in a not not so you know uh dignified way, and he gets kicked out, and the ref comes over to me, he's like, What is wrong with your team? You know, your kids are out of control. I go, not for nothing. I literally just met this kid. Like lit literally an hour and a half ago. That was the first time I've seen the player. So I said, it's not my player. And then, you know, and then and but then but but but then what you do as a coach after that too, right? Is really are you setting, are you just letting it go? Are you is there discipline? Is there a discussion amongst the group? Is it your are you just blame? Like because most of the time in those kind of situations, Lee, like you're talking about, like if it gets to the point where the ref is coming over to you and and and uh you know giving you the giving you the once over because your kids aren't disciplined, it's I would say more times than not, the parents are horrified too. Right. Like like the parent of that player, especially like you talked about. Like, and again, anybody listening to this that has kids under puberty, it it everything changes, right? Their emotions change, their attitudes change, their their their ability to, you know, cognitively make the right decisions and and and and and not be impulsive. All these kind of things change. So, like a lot of times it's you and the parent looking going, I don't even know where this child came from. Like, I known this kid for a long time. Like, where did that go? You know, had that happen.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah, you know, I'll say this too. When it when it comes to refs, I always love to try and give actionable items. My favorite refs, I was gonna say a youth hockey, Mike, but this is kind of honestly at every level. I really love a ref that makes a call, especially not just like an in-game call, like an offsides or you know, I think there's educational purposes with that sometimes, but like when something crazy happens, I like a ref that actually talks to a kid, talks to a player, and says, Look, this is why I called that. Now, if a kid is irate and crazy, ref's got to do what the ref's got to do. Don't get me wrong. But I'm I'm talking about, you know, the kid, the kid who makes a mistake on the ice, and the ref says, Listen, you can't do that. It's 10 minutes, whatever. Here's why. Talk in the box, and then comes over to me and explains this is what I explain to the kid. It takes a village. I'd rather the ref come to me as a coach, say, listen, I'm gonna give him a misconduct. Here's why. Now, you're gonna have a lot of different responses from a lot of different coaches. I am not a coach that likes to yell at refs or argue with refs. I will always ask for an explanation. If I ever feel like my kids are in danger in any way, I will get pretty angry at a ref if if I feel like that's the reason that it's happening. It's very rare though, to be fair. Okay, I have a lot of respect for our refs, as Kerry Frazier said, you can't play the game without them, and you can't play them and the other team and win the game.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

So guys like Carrie, they they they proved the point too that the best officials are the best communicators.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Like they're they're proactive communicators, they're not waiting for something to happen, they're they're managing it. And I think a good coach does that too. You know when your kids are getting out of control, right? You you know when you know when it's coming, it's getting to a point where you know you probably have to like take a kid and and and discipline them. But I think this is where like this is where like in your little slice of the world with the kid for that moment, they are your kid. Like, that's when you can control them. And that's when you could take you could be blamed or or or or or not if a kid goes out there and hurts somebody and you knew that they were kind of getting over the edge. Like that's that's a little different to me. Like, where somebody says, Coach, you gotta control your kids. You you I could you knew this was happening, you could see it brewing, like you're the adult, like you should be somebody that can handle this. I'm just you know, my my thing is more of the stuff that's you know, the kids in the locker room and he's uh watching something, uh video, and all the other kids are watching, and they find out, oh my god, like this person was watching this video, and they're and he's inappropriate with the kids, and like I like that that's not my kid.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Well, it's it's all we can't be everywhere at once. And and like up here's one for you. Like, should the coach be in the locker room before the game, uh, I'd actually lean towards no. Like, again, at the younger, at the younger ages now, we have locker roiters. Okay, that's that's something USA hockey's put into place. I do agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I hate those kids, by the way. I I mean I know why they're there, but I hate the fact that kids can't have a locker room to themselves.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Well, but that's the result of of what you're saying, though, right? Is that that this got out of control to the point that that whether it's bullying or videos, someone has to be there to monitor it. But Mike, your point was also the point I was gonna make. Like, if I'm in the locker room, the kids can't be the kids that they are when I'm not around. And I that's part of the growth, is is like we we talk about character, like the definition of character is what you do when no one's looking, right? Like they need that opportunity to build themselves, right? Again, like I always think about from a character standpoint with this, you know, the kid who cleans up the locker room after the game or the kids that clean it up and don't say anything about it. Like, that's character. I try and have my players learn that, right? Clean it up, leave it better than you found it. And if I walk in there, it's not clean, it's like, okay, noted. I'm gonna have to work on that. But to your point, I can't do it for every single kid all the time. Here's another great example, Mike. You brought this up in the pre-show restaurants, hotels, tournaments, social media. Guys, I I don't know how to say this. Like, that's not our direct responsibility as their coach to oversee those things. I will say it takes a village. I will say that if I'm at a restaurant, a tournament, or I see a kid on social media doing something wildly inappropriate, depending on the situation, I will most likely say something, right? If I if I'm at a restaurant, a kid's throwing plates around, I'm not just gonna sit there and watch him and go, hey, I'm off the clock. All right, but that's your kid, right? That's your kid doing that. Like you're parents, you gotta step in there.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

I think it's why, like it's especially like back in the day, like at the collegiate level and prep school level and high school level, like you, you're you, you, you, you're like you never wanted your kids going out wearing their gear. Like you never wanted the kids wearing their you know, varsity jacket or whatever it was, right? Because you're like, okay, if the kid makes a mistake, it's coming back on me, not the individual player. Like it's a reflection of the program. And I think that's like that's to my you know, my point is, you know, like like that's that's a lot of work. Like if you if you as a coach can work with your players and have them understand their responsibility to the program and to the logo and to their teammates, then you've made great strides, right? Because if that player, like you're saying, when they're at a restaurant and they're eating with their toes, you know, that's not you. You you didn't you didn't like if somebody's like, oh my god, who is this kid? Is it Neanderthal? I'm like, yeah, but that's I didn't like I didn't teach this person matters, I didn't teach this person how to sit at a table. I don't know what's going on at home. But but again, there's standards and and and we I I I like your idea. I like your your point earlier. Like if you establish these things, like these are the kind of standards that we want, and we go to a restaurant, this is how we're going to behave. Then when the player steps out of line, there's like, okay, listen, you've got to go sit with your parents. You're not part of this community right here because you can't behave within the standards that we have.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Well, and look, I'll take another standard uh example of when you know, coach in high school or college, like the GPA minimum standard, right? Like I've always raised that. Like when I I said it once before an episode, when I was coaching college, the the minimum GPA was like a 2.5 or I mean something low. And I I raised it. I raised it. I said on this team, we're gonna have like a 2.8 or a 3.0. I can't remember exactly what I made it, but I raised it. Now, again, I'm I'm and this is my opinion, I'm providing a standard. I cannot go to class with these kids and sit there and make sure they're doing their work. The responsibility is on them. And I think that takes this discussion to an even bigger place, Mike. Is that like, what is the role of the coach? Well, we provide standards, we provide guidance. Again, not every coach does this. I will be the first to admit that. If you find a coach that does this, in my opinion, it's a gift. I'll reverse it as a parent. When a coach tells my kids of a team that I'm not coaching standards, I'm like, thank you. Because now I can say to my kid, nope, coach is expecting this, coach is expecting that. Are you kidding? As a parent, I love when the onus isn't on me. Then they're not gonna blame me for every little thing. Oh, that's part of parenting. There's no perfect parents. Man, what a gift you're giving me to tell my kid, no, prepare your bag the night before, prepare your lunch the night before. Coach wants you to be there on time. You don't want to upset the coach. You want to make a good example, you want your teammates to see that. That's that's as a parent to me, to me personally, that's a gift. As a coach, I am providing standards. With that said, coaches listening to this show. If you are not providing these standards, you need to start. And I'll tell you right now, no matter when you're listening to this, I will always say obviously, preseason, early season is the absolute most impactful time to do it. It's very hard to do it mid-season, but if you're not do it, start doing it now. Start small. All right, you can't just come in halfway through the season by the way, and here's 15 standards. Just start small. All right. Here's the other thing, Mike. I got we got to say this a little bit. Have you noticed that? And I we gotta define what winning is here, but I find that teams that have strong standards and follow those standards have better seasons. And I don't necessarily always mean in the win-loss column. Okay. I I think that is part of winning teams. They typically have high standards, but I'm just talking about from enjoying hockey and learning. By the way, for everybody listening, quick disclaimer you can have a mediocre season in the standings and enjoy the entire season. That is a very possible thing if you know what you're looking for. Go ahead, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah, and I think good coaches are gonna build their standard, and then they attract the players that will abide and want to be in that standard. And into your to like you're saying, like I seek out those coaches that say that lay it on the like like don't be don't be gray. Like, don't say, Oh, just show up and you want to show up. Like, I want to know.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Like, I like the coach that says, you have to be here, and I'm gonna follow through. Like, so even when I'm late, like now it puts the onus on me as the parent. Sure. I'm like, listen, Coach Lee wants you there. I'm I'm gonna schedule my day to get you there, right? But when I show up from home from work, you better be ready to go because that's the standard he set. I'm supporting him on that. I think what happens is like when it's it's more of the the coaches when you when you're too in too much gray, then there is a lot of that. Well, who's who's controlling these kids? Right, well, none of us are.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yeah, and that's when and that's when you get blamed as a coach, by the way. Right?

SPEAKER_00 22:31

That's what that's when people again, like I said in the beginning, like it comes down to automatically the minute you take that role, you're the hub. Yeah, you are. That's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Well, it's the role. And the funny thing, Mike, is that you for those of you listening, you notice we're not talking anything with hockey here. Like these are these are good rules for coaching of any sport or any situation. Like, this has nothing to do with our forecheck. All right. I will say, as a coach, when you establish the standards, it's easier to practice the things that you want to practice. But Mike, you're making a game.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

You're inviting a parent to to support you. Like it's so much easier to get the support of 15 parents.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

It is. You know, here's something else I'll say too, and we again. Are like things that we have to note. Everyone parents differently. There's no perfect parents. We must have said that a thousand times, including us. Like, again, we have the voice of the show. We appreciate you trusting us, but the truth is, everyone does this a little differently. And and again, we're not gonna judge anybody in this, but you've got soft parents, hard parents, strict parents, you got everything across the board, parents who don't believe in any kind of guy. I mean, you got a lot of different types of parenting out there. And I think that what's important is that we establish, as the coach, particularly the head coach, kind of what's the standard for this group and in this environment. And look, here's the deal: this is where we do have a little bit of authority. That's the standard. That's it. I'm not asking you to fully agree with it, I'm asking you to adhere to it. And if you really don't agree with it, if it really whatever, you know, impacts the way you're trying to do things, then have a conversation with me. I'm I'm happy to do that. All right. I I, you know, I'm never trying to compromise someone's ability to parent. I don't think that I do, to be perfectly fair. All right, I'm just providing a lot of life lessons. But I think that that's really important is that you've got to establish it for the whole team, or else you're gonna have 20 different conflicting styles of parenting pointing fingers, and they're all gonna point at you as the coach if you're not leading the bus or driving the bus. All right, leading the ship. So something to think about there. You know, another thing, Mike, just a hack again to bring up for coaches out there. Um, you know, just because we're talking about showing up, and I want to give an example. Like, so for my games, I always want players there. This is youth youth players, um, one hour before the game. There's really no questions about that. I have a set thing that I like to do. I think that, yes, I know when the game is at 6:30, that's hard. That's kind of the point, all right, is you're teaching the kids to go through that. When we get to the older ages, I allow the captains to have some responsibility with that. Um, typically at the highest level, two hours is the minimum you want to be there before the game, but I allow the captains to communicate that to the team and enable them. So it's a shared standard. But uh uh a trick, right? In youth hockey, a lot of times you're gonna have practices that are at times that if there's traffic, you're getting out of work late, it's parents. There's a lot of things that can keep you from getting there. So instead of saying, hey, the practice is at 645, I want you there at 545. The coaching staff and I talked, and I said this earlier, it's like, you know what? Be there with enough time, whatever that is, to be dressed 10 minutes before practice. Right now I'm giving the flexibility to the parents, I'm giving some flexibility to their day, right? I don't, I do not think that's hard to ask for, right? I don't think it's unfair to be like be ready 10 minutes before. All right, people will still show up late, right? But look, if you got a kid that can get dressed in five minutes, great. You got a kid that can't get dressed in five minutes, takes them 30 minutes, great. I'm giving you the leeway to make this happen, right? So I don't know if you have any hacks like that too. We can talk about on the bench, I've got plenty of those too. But again, this is kind of the two-way conversation. We're saying don't blame us, but at the same time, we're also saying there's things we can do to help the situation.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Well, no, exactly. Like I'll lay out like I with my teams, I'll lay out like this is what I would expect you'd be able to do with this age group. And if you choose not to come and do like a warm-up with the team, that's fine. Don't you don't need to, as long as you're prepared. But when you're not prepared and you show up late and you're the last kid on the ice and you and you don't know what's happening, and your teammates don't like you, and and you're and you're or you know, you're there's like I used to listen, I I used to play with guys that would never work out ever, and they'd kick my ass and running every year. Like they'd show up for training camp. I'm like, besides smoking like a pack a day, and he's still beating me. You know, like so so there's there's definitely like you know, it you you have to be you, you know, whatever whatever your ability is to be ready to play. Like, you know, be a gamer, you know, be be ready to play if you're if you're performing. But I think the other side of it is when you set these standards for teams, and I'm a parent, like looking at this going, I want my son or daughter there early. I want them interacting with the players, right? I want them having a social ability, and I want them to be able to get there early enough where they might be able to have a conversation with the coach for five minutes. Like they're like, it's like it's an off the ice, it's in the it's in the rink, it's a lot more informal. Um, I think it's just like, and I think at the end of the day, it's it's it's is to your point, like it doesn't once you start putting these hard and fast rules in, then you better enforce them because it just like if you say you must be in the locker room, dressed and ready to go a half hour before every practice, and kids are on uh now, like and me, like as a parent, I'm like, that's like written in stone. My son, you are going to be there. Like, yeah, dad, nobody else is there. I don't give a crap if nobody I don't nobody shows up for five minutes. This is the rule that was standardized or asked. You get there. And I think you know, the the kids that do that, um, the leaders that get there early, and maybe it's one, then maybe it's three, and then maybe it's six, and then maybe it's the whole team. And the one outlier that doesn't, usually that's the kid that's probably not gonna be on that in that team the next year, or you know, they're not gonna be really in that group, and you know it right away. So I think you know, these things, when you talk about, you know, I'm not your parent, the coach is trying to make it so the parents' job is easier, right? But he also, it's like that. I love, I mean, like, like I I get upset even when you know my son comes home from school and says, Oh, the teacher, you know, we didn't do that in class, we just did the homework in the class. I'm like, well, that's not why you doing that? What the hell are we paying for? Like you're going to school, like, why are you in school? Like, like, you know, so it it's just when you when you let the kids fall to the lowest denominator of expectations, it's a it's a ripple effect. And and the teams that do that, you know, you know what those who those teams are.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Yeah, look, I I think if you're a parent and the coach is providing no standards and no guidance, um, that's when you can start to, and there's two parts to this, right? That's where you can start to look at the coach and say, okay, you know, this is not a great situation, but I would never look at a coach in that situation and say, why are you not, you know, parenting my kid, right? I it sounds dumb saying it, right? So I think that parents, if you have a coach that's not bringing these standards to the table, this is your opportunity to bring the standards, as Mike just said. Like, I don't care what what they're saying, we're gonna be there on time.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Yeah, and I think this is where this is going back to the you know, I'm not your parent kind of conversation, comes back to like it happens to me a lot. And maybe because I am very outgoing as far as saying, here's what I want to do for you, and here's how I want to help and support you. Like, I'll give you, I could give millions of examples. Like I when I was coaching high school, like a parent would call me up, be like, so-and-so's parents are out of town and they're having a party. I'm like, Well, I don't care, it's not my kid.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Let them just call me. What do I care? Like, what do you want me to do? And then, you know, and what happened was now they laid that on me. Now I'm like, now I have to do something. Yeah, like like like like I'm like, I I mean, literally, we'd have these conversations with parents, like, why don't you call the parent? Oh, I can't do that. I go, why? You know them better than me. You're you actually have you're in the same like country club as them. Like, why aren't you calling why aren't you calling them? Why are you calling me to rat the kid out? And I think that's where that's where you got to be careful, right? As a coach, because I I I actually I like I I like the fact that a parent would would um trust the fact that I could be discreet about something like this, but also and and just this is the reason it got brought up in my head is because of what you said about like, oh great, that coach is asking for that. It's the same thing. Like that parent's like, this is great. This coach is gonna stop the party that I don't have to tell my kid he can't go to. Like, like it's it's a roundabout way. The parents, like, well, I'm not gonna tell my kid he can't go to the party because everybody else is letting him go to the party. So I'm just gonna wrap the party out.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

I'll give you a really tough example that happened to me once, right? That you know, I'll I'll I'll display this in a story form audience so you can make a decision on what should have or not been done, right? So it was a uh we'll say high-level hockey game. All right. So these are 18 years and up, all right. Um so the player in question is over 18. Follow me here, because this is a unique example. Uh, we lost a playoff game in overtime. So emotions are very high. It's tough, tough situation. Uh uh hurt a lot to lose that game. All right. I uh after the game am kind of in the the the way the parking lot's kind of attached to the outside of the rink, and I'm outside just kind of decompressing, and I hear screaming, like loud screaming. And within seconds, the player and their parents are walking to the parking lot, and the parent is really screaming at their kid in a super inappropriate way. I'll just say it like that. Okay, now what am I to do in this situation? I'm watching it happen, all right. Um, and I'll tell you what I did. I did almost nothing because what am I to do in this situation? I actually had someone walk up to me to your point, Mike, and say, Aren't you gonna do something? And I said, What would you like me to do? All right, this is a parent with their adult kid, all right, that are super heated, by the way. Like this is not a this is not something I want to intervene in. Now, I will say this if anything physically had happened or like violently had happened, there's no doubt I would have stepped in immediately. Like, I'm not gonna stand for that with any of my players, and I don't care who's doing it. All right, like that's that's a line for me. But this is not a situation that I can step into. Like, like I mean, play it out in your head. What am I gonna do? Tell the parent to stop yelling at their kid. You know, what do you think that parent's gonna tell me in that moment? Like, play it out.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Now you're in the argument, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Now I'm being yelled at, right? Now you could say, well, I'm protecting this person, this person's an adult. All right, so so what I did was I kind of watched it. The player actually came up to me and shook my hand. It was kind of a heartbreaking moment, and I said to that player, look, I will call you tomorrow. Okay, just do what your parent is saying, get in the car, we'll talk tomorrow. What am I to do in that situation? You gotta remember too, parents and everybody, like we have rules we have to follow via safe sport, USA hockey. Like, we have to be very careful in the situations. I'm gonna say this again: if there's ever a violent situation, someone's being hurt. I I mean, I'm gonna do what I gotta do to protect my player. All right, I will say that. All right, to be fair, that has never happened. It's not I haven't seen it happen yet. I hope it never happens. Uh, but man, what an impossible now. You at home might have a different I would have jumped in that immediately. I would never let somebody do that. This is what how hard it is. All right. And and again, it was a heartbreaking situation. I was not in a position to do anything, right? Right? So it's it's a paradox in a lot of different ways. And again, I can't can't go into more detail than I'm going into. I'm gonna say one more time that the way this parent was talking to their child was wildly inappropriate, but but it was not a scenario that if I stepped in, I think it would have helped. That's the other problem, too. So again, I'm just giving a scenario. This stuff happens to us, and again, the other parent coming up to me, aren't you gonna do something? And Mike, to your point, why don't you do something? Right?

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yeah, why why you asking me because you're I'm the coach because I'm the coach, I'm supposed to be the smartest person in the room all of a sudden. Yeah, I I no, I I think that's a very hard situation.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

I just want to say that one minute. It's it was a very hard situation, okay?

SPEAKER_00 34:43

I I I just had a literally just a very similar, you know, parent calls me up and and like like Mike, I I just I want to know if I could bring this up to you, okay. Oh boy, what's going on, right? Oh, this person, my son, is looking at this person's social media account and seeing that they're doing like they're saying and and acting in very harmful ways. Right. And and again, my first inclination says, Well, why don't you just call that parent? But most parents are like, I'm not calling the parent. Like like me, I would call the parent. And it's and it's but it's uh it's a juggling act because now, okay, where so I think almost like as a coach and a and a manager sometimes, right, of these sporting teams, you almost get a little bit more, it's not even power. It's like you you your perspective of your your your your insight into the world, because like let's face it, like coaches know just when you take over a team, you know what what players, what families can't afford things financially. You what kids have other difficulties outside of sport or learning disability. Most of the time you find out all these intimate details about families more than the other families. Like you don't all sit around the room saying, Hey, why don't we talk about your deficiencies?

SPEAKER_01 36:03

About when parents start talking about other parents, do you?

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Well, they do all the time. Like, oh, you know, so and so has uh is is you know was in was in rehab for like oh, no, I don't care. Didn't need to know. Why are you telling me this thing? But the parent, the parent, it always comes up, right? We've talked about this on episodes about you know, don't always jump to go to uh the the glitziest tournament in the world at Christmas because maybe half your team can't afford it. Like you know most of the time as a coach, like so when I say like I'm not your kid's parent, I also say it in a way where if you're opening the door for me to help you, I'm more than happy to help, but it's not my initial, like that's not my initial uh like like like like like reflex. Like I don't want to I like to help.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

I love these episodes because sometimes I think that we arrive to a thought that maybe this this discombobulates kind of work what we're trying to say, you know. And I I wrote down a couple things here, you know, one is that I was thinking about like when the kids on the ice are on the bench or at practice, right? There is an authority that we have over them as their coach because that's that's our space, right? The ice is our space, the bench is our space. Do not want parents anywhere near there, um, you know, ever, right? Like ever. I want the parents near the bench ever. All right. Um, and again, while we're talking about the behavior of kids on the ice, and the parents do have a responsibility away from the rink to teach their kids these behaviors and these standards, while they're on the ice, while they're on the bench, we and these are the words I'm writing here. We manage them and we mentor them. We are not their parents, we are not their guardian. We manage a mentor. And then I wrote this word down too. I think this describes coaching, and this is how honestly, everyone, parents, everyone, kids should be looking at a coach. A coach is a guide, that's all they are. A coach is a guide. I can invite you on the journey, you can partake in the journey with these standards, right? But I can't make you follow. And it is not my responsibility to make you follow because I've got all the other kids, all the other players that need to follow me on this path. And it takes a village of parents supporting and helping their kids and enabling them to follow with these standards on this path together, right? I'm gonna say you can take a horse to water, but you can't make a drink. I think we've all heard that before, right? Right? So it it we are guides for your children, we create standards for them, we can mentor them, we can manage them, but it is not our job to raise them, right? And when you get to the older ages, it is not our job to to, you know, what's the word, manage your day. Like you have to make the decisions. Look, when we have Haley on this podcast, when we have any professional athlete on this podcast, the standards are so clear across the board with rest and recovery and fueling up and practicing and studying, they have the highest standards. I don't think we've had an athlete on here once that was like, yeah, I winged it the whole way, became a Stanley Cup champion, Walter Cup champion. I don't, I don't think that's happened, right? We've had a few athletes that have said, I didn't do that, and I didn't go as far as I wanted to go. Right? I I I'm just saying that the coach plays a major role in these kids' lives. Well, I I believe coaches can change lives. I really do.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Well, and I but I think that's where like you know, we don't, that's not really our audience all the time, right? We're not talking to the the parent that's let their kid go to a coach. Well, they're not gonna be thought you like and that but you know, so it's like when the when you're getting driven to the rink, you know, you are part of the team. You know what I mean? And but when you're on your own, and that's where great college coaches come in, and that's where great pro coaches come in, right? You become like you talk to any college player that was successful or is successful and had a great relationship in college, they had a great mentor coach. Like they had a coach that was a parent. Like there's a reason why coaches used to, you know, coaches go into your living room and say, Give me your child. Like I will, I will take them and I will be their parent. Like those are exact words you say to a parent. Like, I will be their parent. Like you're gonna, you're, you're gonna look at me, and the standard you have in this house right now, that's the standard I'm going to keep.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Like, and that's what great recruiters, that's why that's how they that's how they could go into looking for kids with standards.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

That's the other thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Well, that's how they could go into a living room and get that kid. Because a parent wants to say, oh, you're not gonna let my kid run rampant. No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna actually be the discipline that you can't handle from you know seven states away. You're you're you're it's it's just like a kid that goes off to an academy or prep school or a sleep away. Like once you release that player, you better hope that that coach or mentor or or guide has the best interest and is acting as a parent. But when I'm my conversation today was more of the when you drive your kid to the ring and you walk into the the doors of the ring together and the kid spits on the floor, don't don't somebody run to me and say, What's wrong with that kid? No, no, that's that's not my kid. He's sitting right there with the parent. Like, so that's where I think to me, where that delineation really is. It's the it's the you know, behavior, etiquette, manners, uh, demeanor. Like, those are all things that are are are the parent, the actual parent responsibilities. Get them on the bench with me. I'm gonna tell where to sit, I'm gonna tell them how to stand, I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna I'm gonna control how they're they're they're conversing with each other and conversing with the other team and and with the refs. Like, that's not gonna be you know, and I'm not I don't expect the parent to be there. I'm managing that, I'm guiding that way. But at the same time, there is a time that that you know when when like when I get give my children to another human being and they say that they're a mentor and a coach and a guide, I'm expecting them to have the same standards as I would have.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yeah, hopefully. I think that's fair. And look, we gotta we gotta get give the disclaimer. Uh, there are bad coaches out there that teach wrong things and wrong behavior. And I think you know who they are. To be fair, those are just as rare as like really great coaches, right? Most coaches are kind of in the middle, they're volunteering, God bless y'all, right? But uh yeah, if you've got a coach that's teaching bad behavior, teaching your kids to do things on the ice they shouldn't be doing, you know, screaming at ref, screaming at the other team, uh, that's not appropriate either. Okay. And and and but this is again, it's an opportunity to teach your kids what's wrong with that, how to do it. Don't just point the finger. I'm like, I'm not trying to defend those coaches, Mike, when I say that, but it's like if you've got a coach that's screaming at their kid on the bench, have a conversation with your kid about why that's not appropriate and just teach them. Like, that's it's all an opportunity to teach them about real life. This is gonna happen to them outside of the ring.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

And most of the time, most of the time, you're choosing that play, that person. Like, like you know what you're getting when you get it, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:59

So yeah, I I again, yes and no, right? Like, I do agree with you. I think I think a lot of players know that. Like, they don't like screamers, and to be fair, gang, like and like and I can say this, you know, that style of coaching while still around is nowhere near as rampant as it was 20, 30 years ago. Like when I was growing up, I felt like every coach did that. Uh, and I do think we've evolved as coaches a little bit to understand empathy and understand uh behavior and emotion. Um, I just want to say this too like there's a there's a clear difference. If you've got a coach that's doing that, educate your kid on the way you think it should be done and use it as an opportunity to teach them about how the world works. Adversely, adversely, and this I think this is my point of the episode. If you've got a great coach that's bringing great standards, do not roll your eyes at your kid and go, oh, coach wants you there an hour before. We got to wake up early, coach. Don't blame the coach, that's the best thing we can do for your kid. Don't be that parent. Oh, we got to be there on time. What messages? I've heard that. I've heard that. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

But don't be but also don't be there on time. Don't be the coach that says you had to get there an hour before, and then literally for 50 minutes, nothing has happened.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Nothing, yeah, yeah. So so that's a funny one. We had a coach one time. I think this is a funny story. It said we had we had to be, I was not coaching this team, I was not, I was not on the staff of this team. Coach said, We got to be there an hour before the game. All right, so we would all get there now before the game, and like you said, nothing would happen until you know what, 25-30 minutes before the game. And I remember one of the moms went up to the coach and just said, What is the purpose of the hour? Like, what is the purpose of this? And there was no answer, just nothing. And you know, the answer is probably well, that's what we were told to do. And it's like, I Mike, I agree with you. I I should have said that earlier. If you're showing up an hour before the game, to me, it's like there's a 10-minute kind of get get settled period. Then we may either go into getting dressed or a pregame. I'm not getting dressed. We might go into a pre game warm up, we might go into a pregame talk, followed by getting dressed. There might be a post dress talk. I like the players to be in their game, the gear a minimum of 10 minutes before we play or practice. I think it sets a tone when you're all sitting there in your gear. Things happen. Things happen. I'm not, I'm not. Saying they don't happen, but don't roll your eyes at a coach that's providing you standards. You're giving your kid the excuse. And I've I've been in the room where kids say, Oh, we have to be dressed 10 minutes before. Yeah. Yeah, you do. Right? Um, last thing I want to talk about too is just, and we we, you know, last topic here, gang, is that uh for coaches specifically. Um in youth hockey, all right, you gotta be careful how much you put pressure on winning and losing games solely. I am not ever gonna sit here and tell coaches not to care about winning and losing. I I just you know, I don't love it when people say, oh, it doesn't matter. Um, I think that's you know, I think it matters more or less depending on the age, but like who doesn't want to win? Like, right? Like, who doesn't want to win? I think it's very important though that you define multiple wins. Okay, winning the game is always a nice goal. The truth is this, and when I speak to groups, I say this everybody wants to win the game. I have never been with a group ever when I say, Hey, what do you want to accomplish? And they go, We want to come in fifth place this year. Like, nobody does that. All right, so you got to find other wins in youth hockey. That win is development. You know, setting a goal. I want to be great at passing today. Can we connect on 10 passes? Things like that create other wins that create much more enjoyment in the season and develop. I can also tell you this too. Unless you're a schmuck, all right. If you if you go into a season and win every game by five to ten goals, it's not fun. All right, it's just not fun. All right, and I've seen teams do that, and the kids are not having fun, right? The the the hard to quote a league of their own, the hard is what makes it great. All right, like you need that adversity, or what are we doing if you're just trophy chasing, you're not a coach at that point, you're an egomaniac. All right, so define multiple wins. That's our responsibility is to create those wins and losses for your group, and you should consistently be doing that throughout the season. Where did we start? Where do we want to end? And what are the things we need to do in between to get to that point before I hand you off to the next age level, the next coach, the next person? That's the guide nature of this. All right, but if you're getting bad messages at home, I'm sorry, that's not Mike and I's fault. We can guide your kid, we can mentor your kid, but I'm not gonna be blamed because you allow your child to go crazy all the time and suddenly they're in an environment with standards, and and it's my fault they're not following the standard. No, no, it takes a village, and that's the note, at least for me, that I want to end on. It takes a village, youth sports, especially team sports, especially individual sports. We all work together. You can make that a wonderful, wonderful environment, or you can make it a hellish environment, but it's never the coach's fault alone, even if the coach sucks, it's not just on the coach, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

Well, that's that's even more of a reason if the coach is terrible, right? Because and and you're not parenting, that's it's a it's a vicious, like there's just no, there's a bottomless pit there of just bad behavior and bad you know choices. So no, I I like it. I mean, I think it's like I said, I think it's that the the the the idea that when you look at as a when you take the job as a coach and at you as a parent, have a coach, you know, take what you can from them, you understand they're hopefully there, if they're laying things out there that can support you and your parenting, take it and and embrace it and be like, I love this because this person is is helping me teach my son how to be on time and have the right dress code and understand that you know that that you know, like me, like I'll I'll be like, Well, how come you didn't watch your video last week? Oh, the coach doesn't care. I go, Well, I care. Like he said he cares, but he he if he doesn't, like I said, so be consistent, um, follow up, but I think, and ultimately, you know, uh again, if you're the Zamba Zamboni guy and a kid shoots the puck over the glass, you know, while you're trying to take the net off the ice, don't blame me. It's not my kid.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Yeah, like you just made me think, and is the last thing I will say this time. Sorry, I lied before. You know, most of you are gonna have uh 10 to 12 years in youth hockey, right? Most of you gonna have 10 to 12 years, and that's that's 30 to 40 coaches you're gonna have.

unknown 49:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

All right. As Mike's saying, you're gonna have some really good ones, you're gonna have some bad ones. Most of them are gonna be in the middle. That's okay. What you want to do is take the standards and the guides that you love and the ones that you hate and build up your own repertoire of what you're gonna do. If you have a team where a coach set a great standard and it worked for your kid, and the next year's coach doesn't share that standard, that doesn't mean your kid should abandon the standard. Right? Mike made that point. All right, if if getting dressed 10 minutes before really helps your game, you should always be dressed 10 minutes before. All right. If you find something that works, do it. If you find something that doesn't work, note it. Learn. It's also good life advice. All right. They're not all gonna be winners. All right. That's it. You've been listening to our coaches grumble about hockey, likingly. Uh it's it's a shame Christy's not here. She might have lightened the mood a little bit. No, I thought this was a great conversation, joking aside, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Well, no, but Christy, if she was here and she will back us up, that's it was she'll say, like, I want coaches that want my kids to behave. Like, I want coaches that set a standard and then I can help my child abide by that standard.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Yeah, no, I I agree with that. I think we all want that. And again, just to close it out, takes a village, right? Look, if you want to have a conversation with us, if you agree, disagree, if you have a thought for an episode, anything on that, email us at team at our kidsplayhockey.com, or you can uh text us using the link accompanying this episode in the description, uh, and we can text you back. Again, we only get a short amount of letters to do that. So make sure if you want to have a conversation, email us. We'd love getting all the correspondence from you. But for Mike, I'm Lee. This has been another wonderful edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. We'll see you on the next one, everybody. Take care. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at When Hockey Stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.