Former NHLer Mike Knuble Returns: How Parents and Coaches Can Help Kids Compete Without Losing the Love of Hockey

SPEAKER_03 0:07

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome to another episode of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias, joined by Mike Benelli. Christy Cassiano Burns is on assignment today. We have a returning guest today. We really enjoyed his intro last time, so we're going to do it again. He played over a thousand NHL games across a long career with the Detroit Red Wings, New York Rangers, Boston Bruins, Philadelphia Flyers, and Washington Capitals. And last time he joined us, we had one of our favorite conversations ever about development, patience, and the youth hockey journey. So today we wanted to build on that, but from a fresh angle, we're going to dive into what's changed in youth hockey, whether kids are actually playing enough quote-unquote real hockey anymore, the hidden traits that separate players as they get older, and how parents and coaches can help young athletes compete without losing their love of the game, which by the way is pretty essential if you want to do anything here. And yes, we'll also check in on the Scotland hockey adventure in sleepy last time. Mike Canuble is back.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Mike, welcome back to Our Kids Play Hockey. Yeah, thanks for having me. I think it's yeah, I mean, I guess got me once, and then for me to get asked back, I think that's pretty special. So that's great. I'm very happy about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

It's uh it's awesome. It's almost like, you know, when we talked to you last time, I mean, it was one of those, it was one of those episodes and sit-downs where I think, you know, we we turn the camera off and probably talk the rest of the afternoon. And and I think that, you know, getting your perspective and you know, as a player, as a coach, as an administrator, as a uh, you know, just in overall your your involvement with hockey, I mean, it's just so beneficial. I think uh in the reason why the show uh became what it is, right? It's because we you know we want to create these blueprints for parents and coaches, you know, to follow, you know, because I I I often say it a lot, you know, on the show too. Like I've made all these mistakes, like I've made over and over and over. I'm like, oh my god, why would I do that? Or why didn't I do this? So, you know, without sounding like the like the like the uh you know the curmudgeon in the group here, what uh what do you think is and it's a pretty broad question, but what do you think are some of the core changes in hockey from like when you were playing, when your kids were playing, and now what you're seeing today in in our youth hockey culture? Um you know, uh from everything, from like the the the the influence of social media, the influence of skills coaches, the you know, maybe moving away from the team piece and more of the individual, you know, sponsorship piece. I mean, what are all these things that you think, you know, the good and the bad?

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yeah, I mean, I mean, how much time do you have, right? It's an hour long show, yeah. Susan, I know it's like only an hour, but you know, I mean, I think me, I'm 53, or I'm gonna be 54 this year. So growing up and playing in youth hockey was kind of the mid 80s, right? And and now it's the mid to 20s, kind of, you know, so 2020. So that's a pretty big window, right? 40, 45 years. And guys, my age, I think when we were playing, um, you know, you know, obviously, you know, you're lucky, you just kind of played your seasons, right? You did your things, and and kind of it was a hockey was a thing you did. I grew up in West Michigan. Actually, I was born in Toronto, so that's where we got our start. My father was in Toronto 10 years, had my brother and I in Toronto moved back to Grand Rapids, Michigan, which had a small program, and they got you know, got hooked while he lived in Toronto cheering for the leaf. So just kind of pushed us into it, and and that's the way you went. Uh, we started playing travel hockey maybe at the age of 10, uh, which is so normal these days back in the day. I remember my parents, I think their friends were like, You're doing what this weekend? You're driving to Detroit for your kids' hockey. Like, it was absolutely asinine, right? They're like, Why would you, you know, that makes no sense whatsoever. And you're doing this and staying in hotels, and what about your weekend? You work all week, and you know, the parents and I mean, this is back when parents were smoking in the house and you know, stuff like that. I mean, it was a different time, and uh one of my favorite pictures of all time is my dad and his buddies smoking a cigar in the rink, and we're warming up behind them through the chain link fence. So it's I mean, it was just a different time, right? And yeah, so get the kids played, and you know, you're kind of like a super niche group, like probably your buddies, like you didn't see your friends, like it was really like a couple guys in this parts of town and this and that, and they're trying to run a team. And you know, we hadn't didn't have players in West Michigan, so we were in Detroit and we were in Chicago and going all over, um, you know, and then you know, developing and moving through is just kind of happenstance, right? And you know, USA hockey was called A House back in the day. And I think I went to one camp when I was 14 years old up at Ferris State, which is about an hour north of Grand Rapids, and it was kind of all of Michigan, and I got ran out of there. I thought I was a pretty good player and went there and it was a bunch of tier one. I guess they were called triple A kids back in the day, and they came over and some of them had beards already at 14. I was like, What is this? And then I got railroaded, I never did a thing for USA hockey ever again, and it was just you know, it was it was stuff like that, and then it was just playing, and uh, ended up playing in in high school in Michigan. My father passed away when I was 15, and life changed, and so we had to make some decisions off that and played for my high school, which was a really nice thing in Michigan. We're one of the only schools that have its own rink besides Cranbrook and uh University Liggett over in Detroit. Uh, we have a rink on campus, and so I was in a good spot and um kind of happenstance, kind of make your way through. So uh you just kind of go and and you just played, and things kind of fell into place. And and and these days, uh, you know, fast forward 20, 30 years, the game's evolved. I think youth sports all over America and all over North America and all over the world has evolved. And as far as you know, hockey, golf, tennis, baseball, I mean, the the the attention that that athletes get at a young age now, and the the skills coaches they use and the and the the direction they head so quickly in in their lives at 13 and 14, uh steering them toward academies and this uh life of development um is is kind of the way it's gone. And and for better or worse, it is it kind of is what it is. Now, some of that is I think a lot of it is based on pro sports. I think when I was a kid, the average salary in the NHL, I know guys were playing for $75,000, $80,000, you know, and and now you know that the minimum is 10 times that. And I think I think the money in pro sports has got a lot more serious, which has had a huge trickle-down effect to people. Um, I think um, you know, that that's been a huge thing, and trying to get to college and even the value of a college education, what it would that what that can do to a family, and I mean that's a small percentage of people. And and and I think I was on your show before, and it's this youth sports should be about the journey and the pathway to get there and your time together as a family. Uh, because for 90, 98, 99 percent of kids, that you know, you're not making a dime doing this. And it's and it's you you love you you love to get there and you love to to to be on that track, and it's fun to chase that carrot, but um, you know, being the journey is the thing, and it's for better or worse, it's changed a lot, and it's it's it's not that easy to navigate as as parents. So like these podcasts are great, and and especially these days. Now the NCAA has really cluttered things up. I'm sure we'll get into that in a little bit. But uh it's it's it's a very it's a very difficult environment for I had a hockey background, so I had a grasp of things, and I had people close to me that were that were that could help me out, but you know, it's a very uh uh for parents out there, I don't think it's uh strange to feel a little bit overwhelmed right now.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah, but NCAA is the new miners, but yeah, we we will get to that you know in a minute, Mike. You know, it it first off, I appreciate you sharing all that because our show really is about the journey, right? That's why we made it. I'll I'll tell the audience we're recording this on uh Monday, May 18th, coming off a weekend where all three of us have seen uh some pretty disturbing videos from the BRIC tournament that just happened, right? Where uh U8, U10 kids openly brawling on the ice, fighting on the ice, being encouraged by their parents in the stands. Now we do talk about this a bit that the kids who play in that tournament statistically have a very, very high chance of succeeding in hockey somehow. All right, what whatever, what no matter what you think, those are the stats. The question I would ask Mike, you of all people, um, is is that worth it to have that kind of experience? Right now, and again, I'm trying to put I'm I really am trying to put myself in the position of a parent of look, my kid at 10 statistically has a has a really good chance of going pro. But I have to ask myself too, like, what the hell are we sacrificing at that? First off, the pressure on the kids at that age, the the the ordained path that they must now be on, they might not like hockey in five years. I mean, I I it the situation disturbs me. If a kid is that talented, that is phenomenal. Like, like, I always like to try and separate those things because if your kid is great at hockey, that that's a great thing. But what are you sacrificing to put him on that path at 10 years old? And and Mike, I'm sure in your journey you have met pro players that were disturbed, maybe mentally, because of the path they were put on at a young age, maybe. You see where I'm going with this? I just love your thoughts on that because it was a yeah, turbulent weekend.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Yeah, no, I saw, you know, I happen to, you know, we were gone, we were in Chicago weekend visiting our daughter, and then I happened to I flipped on Twitter. I honestly was on Twitter for a minute yesterday, and that was it like Pittsburgh in Chicago or something. Little kids like, yeah, yeah, little pre-tournament. Yeah, yeah. Now I do have experience with a brick. Uh I was uh my younger guy played for the Chicago team. Um Cole played for the Chicago team. Um, I think it it was, you know, it back this is, you know, so he's an 04, so this must have been 2014 or so. He's 22. Yeah, so it's about maybe 20 third, you know, this is maybe 12, 13 years ago. Um, it's turned into quite the racket. Um, I mean, it's and it's it's turned into the racket that you know, you're there's these pre-qualifications, it's all starting a year before. You're not throwing a team together in May to go play in July in Edmonton. Uh, it's this process to get uh the year before, and it's it's super consuming. I think it's incredibly consuming at that age, like like the pressure like you were talking about, and and feeling that like, oh, if I make this brick team, uh I got a chance, you know. I'm I'm I'm anointed. If I don't play in the brick team in whatever town, I'm screwed. I'm I'm done. Like I'm worthless. Like that's that is absolutely insane. I mean, I think the time commitment, the financial commitment is off the charts. And um, yeah, I mean, I remember going and and spending a week or so in that hotel. I was lucky, I had a buddy up there, Jason Chimera. I got out of that hotel. Like, we would, you know, we played golf, we went to their swim club, like we had a life, and part of my family went home. You know, I didn't even like being there over July 4th. Being an American, I didn't like being out of the States on July 4th, you know. That's my birthday too. So I was like, I'm now I'm stuck in a hotel. I'm like, what's happening up here? But but uh um, yeah, that's uh that was you know, in our experience with that was just getting together in May. Uh, I think we played one tournament in Chicago, but now it sounds like it's a whole year process and and the kids are fighting and they're I know that that part of social media is now you see every little thing that happens. That's true too. Yeah, yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I mean, I could probably I could probably say, you know, I would say like just because I'm involved with all these teams and and this kind of a level too, right? That there's there there's uh you know that kind of shenanigans is going on in every tournament and every spring league in in the United States this past weekend. Like I don't think it's I don't think it's a brick issue. It's certainly not a youth 16, you know, 2016 age group. I mean, I just watched a bunch of 17-year-olds in a spring tournament just like every other every other whistle was a a you know, rabbit punches to the face. So it's really just a by I think it's just a lot of the cultural things we need to fix. Or or or at least at least address, right? And and try to work with. But I think the I guess my question to you, Mike, knowing that, you know, I didn't realize your son had gone through you know that level of hockey at an early age. Do you think it's is it so it it I guess the question then becomes, is it driven by the parent? Because I or is it driven by the organizers? Because I, you know, I know a lot of the organizers, and these are very sane, normal, like these are people that say, like, we know the path to development, but this is what's happening, and we're trying to keep up with what the consumer wants as opposed to what we know is maybe the best thing to do, and so it's a really hard piece to balance because you know what the right thing to do is all the time, but the consumer says, Well, I want more, I want more, I want more. So who's gonna fill that void?

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yeah, yeah. I know those franchises are coveted too, right? Like the brick is a fantastic thing. I mean, it's a very, very unique thing. It's in early July. It's it's actually really, it's it's it's pretty neat. Like it's pretty neat thing. Um, I know the franchises are very coveted to have one of those to be allowed to play in that. Therefore, it drives the exclusivity of it. Therefore, the parents start to get antsy, therefore, you know, it's like the organizers know, oh, we got a hot thing. And things in hockey and sports, they cycle, right? They're hot, they're not hot anymore. Then they build up. Now they're gonna come back around, they're hot again, they're not hot again. I mean, you can, you know, things, you know, tournaments kind of come and go a little bit, but bricks had an unbelievable staying power. And I think, you know, you have a you know, on the business side of it, it's a pretty nice model. And now you can really start to capitalize on it as an organizer, as a franchise owner. And you know, if the demand supports it, I guess it, I guess it is. Now, the the trick is for every parent who goes to the brick, it's it's it it is not the be all end all. Granted, like you said, there's a lot of names that have played in that tournament. There's a lot of good players that are played in that tournament. So what's feeding what, right? Is the does the do the players are the players going? You know, what's feeding what is the tournament great, therefore the good players go to it, or is it just you know, the good players go into it, that makes the tournament great, you know? So it's it's uh whatever it's it's it's hard to say, but you know, with that, if that uh that market is there and that demand is there, you know, how how do the organizers and the franchise owners not not feed it, you know? But um, it's certainly uh uh for for parents, and yeah, like it's like if you like if you can't make it, if you're not there and you're it it's cursed, and then you know you got you know people picking teams. It's you know, you could you can find holes and everything and and find what's wrong with it and what's what's a pro about it, what's a con about it. But um, yeah, it's certainly a unique time of the year, it's pretty much the only thing going on at that age, and so you know, everybody wants to wants to be in it. It does have a it, you know, at the end of the day, there's a lot of tradition there, there's a lot of cool things that have yeah, very, very good players that played there. There's no doubting that.

SPEAKER_03 14:39

Look, I I want to say this too, I and I I feel like I've said this on the show before not against this tournament. Um I'm not in any way, like I'm not against it, but it does create questions that I think deserve to be asked on a platform like this. And Mike, you know, a few minutes ago, you had you had kind of described this in a way of the pressure and the decision making and all this stuff. That that is normal for a 16, 17, 18-year-old player. It's not normal for an eight, nine, 10-year-old player. And I think that's that's where I get a little uneasy with um that path. And then Benelli, to your point, uh, I don't think it's the organizations that are causing the chaos. And I'll tell you why, because uh the rules are pretty clear about fighting at 10 U. Like it's not a thing. So they had to learn that somewhere. And I guarantee you, their coaches and their administrators are not saying, Let me show you how to do a good cost check in the back, right? And I go, some of it's kids being kids. I I could admit that, all right. But I'm saying that the kids are feeling the pressure, and that's that's that's coming from somewhere. And again, we don't have to dive into that. That's that's kind of an open-ended thought. Um, but the the the way I want our audience to apply it is do you want your kid to experience that type of pressure, not pressure, that type of pressure at that age? I don't I don't know if that's healthy or not. And and that's that's part of it that bother me.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

And I and I also think I just think it's the top that like parents need to know their kids. Like I've worked with these kids, right? And there are some kids that you look at them and you're like, this is not like a normal kid, like this kid is obsessed, like they are living this, like this is driven by the child, which I think for a lot of people that aren't in that world don't understand because we look at all the we look at all the rest of the kids who are like, oh, well, doesn't your kid just like to play and have fun? No, no, this kid is crazy, like in a good way. Like this kid is like this kid has a singular focus, but that's why the best become the best, honestly. I mean, that's why these separate. So I guess I yeah, I just like to kind of move the question to a like a like a different realm for the rest of us immortals that you know, outside of that of that two percent kid, Mike. Like what do you think then the other kids can do to now you know bring their game to a place, not to be that level, but to be in a be in the mix and to continue to grow, because you said it right? Not making a team, any team at a certain age is not like you're done, pack it up, you know, put your skates away forever. But what now is it, what is it then that sets that kid apart? That really motivated kid, that kid that says, Oh, I I I really want to be there, I want to be that kid. You know, now you know what are the different things that they need to work on as they move through the ranks over the next couple of years. And maybe the next big tournament is the Quebec tournament, you know, maybe that next stepping stone is hey, I I played at this, and now ooh, here's another shining big, you know, milestone type of team I can try to make. Like what are the what's the bridging there?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, yeah. No, I I I agree a hundred percent with what you're saying, uh, as far as the kids that are that are motivated, right? And they, you know, and they're not that you don't call it special, but they have a different the way they think about things. And you see kids, some kids can't put a book down, some kids can't put stop playing the piano, you know, some kids can't stop looking at bugs in the yard. I mean, it's what they do, that's the thing that's consuming them and what and and and effect they're gonna be great. They're gonna be great.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

It's funny, it's funny you say that because you don't get too concerned with that. Like the kid that's the astronomer that loves seeing the stars and keeps asking for a new telescope every Christmas, like we don't look as concerned about that kid as we do, oh my god, this kid wants to go to another tournament this weekend. Like, right, you know, it's just hey, that's the kid, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Right. So amongst your friends, you're like, Oh, my kid's really motivated by hockey. Well, we got to go to this tournament this weekend or this tournament that we can. Uh, you're crazy. Well, if he likes, you said, like planets or bugs or likes playing the piano. If you got to do that every weekend, your parents are like, wow, he's really smart. Oh, wow, that's pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

There's nothing wrong with a little crazy. There's nothing ever going to wrong with a little crazy.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah, I mean, anybody who's gonna be good at anything is gonna be really driven, you know, and the hours and the time and the focus and the you know, the the frustration and and um, you know, winning and losing and and and roadblocks, you got to keep going on. So um, again, you know, again, people kids aren't being discovered, you know. There are there are maybe a one percenter or whatever, but for for the kids, nobody's watching 10-year-olds, it's not gonna affect whether you uh how far you advance in in the game at all. And again, you know, again, that's that's knowing your kid. And we touched on it. I'm a big believer, and you have to know what your kid is capable of and what they can do and and where where sports fit in their life, right? And and all you can do, I think what we chose to do as parents is we provide the best environment and based on your ability and your um like your you're you're you're not fooling like us. Like I whether you're whether you're the most talented player on the team or least talented, I know as long as you're giving us the 100% effort and you're trying as hard as you can, whatever level that, whatever talent level you have, we were gonna support it, you know. And and thankfully we're lucky, our two boys, and our daughter was trending that way until she did her ACL twice and kind of and then but we still got a point with her as lacrosse player. She did her ACL twice, but I think she still would have gone on, but she just didn't have the fire in the belly, you know. And eventually, as parents and you're you're you know, you're you look at your husband, you look at your wife, and you're like, you know, for the moms and dads that are listening, you have to say, well, what's what's what's really our kid? What what do they have inside them? What's burning in their stomach and in their heart? And where where are we and what and and we chose we'll just give them the best opportunity. And I think as a parent, you know, they're one percenters, you can't get all fall, you know, crazy about that. Your kid's probably not that, but can still be a make the NHL because you don't make the brick team. It's and some parents are like put their foot down, they're like, hell no, we're not playing that, or hell no, like we weren't going to Quebec when we were 12 years old. I'm like, my parents can't do that. I have I have teachers, I got cops, I got, I got people that are like working, they can't take 12 days off and go up to Quebec and and watch your kid play play hockey games up there. I mean, that that's that's not even realistic. And so, you know, that combination of where your player is, what fits in your family, and what cards you can what cards you can give them, and then you figure out how you're gonna play your hand as your kid and help them develop and and and and help them be the best player they can be. And you know, at the end of the day, they're there, they tell you with their body language, they tell you with their effort, they tell you with their talent, and all those combinations have to be evaluated. It's nice to get some other opinions and and some other people on the outside that don't love the kid, that just look at the kid as a player or or an athlete and and give you a nice honest opinion. And you can go with it or not, you can say, No, I think you're wrong, or you can you do whatever. But you know, it's very hard. You know, as a parent, I felt like you know, I try to be as objective as I can, but we're all parents, we love our kids, but you know, you got to hear from other people too. And sometimes you hear stuff you don't want to hear, and sometimes you you know you don't want to be around a yes person all the time telling you you're great, you know, it's like sign up for my class, sign up for this, sign up for that. You gotta you gotta hear the bad the tough stuff every once in a while, too.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

You know, I'll I'll say this uh two things about this. And then this has been a great opening segment, by the way. Hard in questions here on our kids play hockey. But the thing that I always come back to for parents, keeping in mind there's no perfect parents, I'm not a perfect parent, is that there's there's psychology behind this too. The thing that I worry about, and this is actually more of a question for everybody listening, right? Is is I worry that kids. Will only identify of I am a success if I play pro hockey, and that is a really dangerous thought for a kid to be having. Again, if someone's on the path and they're in the minors and that's their obsession, it's your job at that point, it becomes different. But you know, I think it's important that you just let your kids know whether they are the two percent super obsessed kid or not, that this is not the only thing that's going to define you in your life because you will be a sibling, a father, a mother, all the all these different things, right? Son and daughter, um, they define you too. You know, uh, Mike, another funny story here. Now, I didn't start playing ice hockey till I was 12. And what's funny about kind of bleeding into what I just said is my father used to say to me, Um, great, great, I love my father, he's a great man, but he used to say, Man, if we had found this earlier for you, because you were obsessed. That's what he says, you were obsessed with it. We found it at six. And I tell him, you know, that the journey happened just the way it was supposed to happen because I I'm living hockey every day still. Like the obsession went well beyond the NHL dream to podcasting and business and other things. Like, I'm I'm doing hockey every single day still. And and I think that's a part of this, too, of that I am obsessed. I think about it all the time, but I'm also a lot of other things aside from just a hockey player. So, just to the parents listening, I just think that's part of it. That's part of the process. Whether your kid is the greatest skater player ever or they can't skate at all. Uh, there's more to it than that. Now, I mentioned when I was 12, okay? The my entry to the game was roller hockey, street hockey. Um, we talked about our youth. I was outside every day on the street, the ball of puck, and Mike, to your point, my friends, right? We were just playing every single day. And I think that's where I learned um a lot of aspects of the game that can't be taught. So I said it in the intro about the quote-unquote what's real hockey versus structured hockey. Um, and I'm wondering your thoughts on do you think that today's kids are getting too much structure and not enough uh play, right? Like the game itself. And I think about these big development moments for me, and and I'll preface it with this coaching was coaching like like I had a lot of great coaches that taught me a lot about the game. And I'm not, I am in no way saying that was not a huge part of my path, but man, I remember learning a lot just playing with no coach on the street at open hockey, at pond hockey, with guys that were way bigger than me trying to teach me at open practices. So, what where's real hockey? Where do they learn the hockey IQ? Where does the problem solving come in and how can we work on that? Keeping in mind we don't have uh half an hour now.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yeah, no, I know that that's certainly interesting because now you know you're thinking, man, it's like I remember I'm going back to my childhood. I mean, we played backyard baseball, you know, right? Backyard football. I mean, you go to you go to a you go by a park in a ball field, there's never kids out there playing like a sandlock game, you know. There's you know, there's no impromptu games like that, like it's very structured. I think driveway basketball, right? Like we grew up with the Pistons and the Lakers, Pistons were, you know, it was Boston Pistons and Lakers, and it was just you know, every spring we'd be in the driveway playing basketball, and you foul guys, you learn how to solve conflict, you might have the odd tussle out there in the in the yard, you know, or whatever after basketball, but yeah, you know, and and and that. And you know, but I I do to your point, it's like I learned, you know, the guys who are who are you creative, you learned like that this you learn to recognize this guy can't go to his left, you know, or this guy can't go to his right, or if I do this, I'm gonna this usually works. Like if I I can set this guy up like this and I can do this, or this goalie, you know, if we're playing in the driveway or playing in the cul-de-sac, playing tennis ball hockey or whatever, we're like, oh, he can't stop, Buck. He's actually a little, or he might be scared a little bit, you know, or I can do this fake and he bites every time. And you know, that that informal um uh those informal learning sessions are just like they're harder to come by. Now you have drop in hockey at at uh at the rinks, or you you know, you play with your buddies, but now now these days it's like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna put try and pull off a Michigan. Watch me, watch me do something sick, watch me do something sick. So now we're standing around, we're talking about it, and we're doing these little moves that would never ever be a thing. Now that's part you can say, well, just like kids being kids, like let them have some fun. Sure, okay. But you know, you know, you know, but if you watch a kid for an hour on the ice, how much are you moving around? How much actually are you guys playing two on two? Are you are you playing three against three? You gotta find a goalie. Are you improvising? Are you figuring out you know what to do? So I do think that free play stuff is a little bit, a little bit lost. I mean, I guess there's a lot of pickup basketball might be one that still goes, you know, there's gym time for pick-up basketball where where kids learn and and you kind of you kind of learn on your own a little bit. And that's when you hear coaches like, Well, I can't teach everything, you know, it's some stuff you've got to pick up on your own, and you do. And that was that free time and that free play. You know, the two that the two hour and a half sessions you get during the week in practice, like sometimes that's not enough, you know, and you've gotta you've got to figure out um, you know, that that free time you have with your buddies in the driveway, or you're handling, you know, you're you're you're playing basketball, you're playing baseball, you're playing against your buddies in the street. But you know, unfortunately, kids are super scheduled. The demands of school are very high. Um, it's cold, it's dark, you know, you don't have great Saturday afternoons at home anymore because you're playing so many games and you're off on the weekends. We talked about being gone. You don't have the impromptu games on Saturday afternoon or anything like that anymore. And that's it's kind of the way it is. It's sad, but that's the way it is. And um, I don't know. You just as kids, you gotta find, I guess, you know, cherish. I don't know, find those times and it transfer it's other sports transfer too. I mean, you play baseball, you play basketball, like all that stuff. Transfers a hockey. You learn that you know, you learn, oh, I can fake, I can jab this way, I can go this way and go back the other way. It usually works, or I can always go to this side, and I'm really strong on this side. Well, I'm weak on this way. I gotta figure out how to get better going this way, you know. So, you know, yeah, stuff like that. Again, you gotta analyze it and figure out it on your own sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Yeah, and and like just to go through it real quick, and then I know your audience is gonna say, Yeah, we've heard this. How do we do this? But like, look, basketball taught me transition because they transition a lot faster in basketball than we do in hockey, amongst us. I'm just doing the big ones. Baseball taught me patience and and focusing on an object, which helped me become great at tipping the puck at some point. Oh, yeah, I'm I'm bringing them all back to hockey. You know, I joked before on the show how uh, you know, my when my son played baseball, taught him how to use his catcher, right? He's a goalie. All right. Uh, all of these sports, track and field, uh, tennis, all of these transfer um back to the game, keeping in mind too that I always say, don't tell your kids that you're doing it for hockey, let them just experience it. Because Mike, to your point, the things you learn in open play, kids don't typically realize, oh, I'm learning, I'm I'm figuring these things out, they're just playing, and that's how it organically comes. Now, the question arrives too of okay, this is how it was. How do we do this? Um, you know, it's not as hard as you think, parents. Like last night, my wife and I took my kids to play pickleball, and it wasn't we're playing pickleball for hockey, it was just we're just gonna go play pickleball. And you know what? We had a great time, and I could see my son and daughter learning things. And here's another great one. My daughter came up to me at one point, uh, she's nine, and just asked me for some tips on like how to hit it with the paddle. All right, and it's like you're learning something, right? And you're also teaching how to learn, all right. I think in today's day and age, uh it's look, it's an amazing time to be alive technologically. I'm not I'm not down on that. A lot of people are down on tech. I think it's amazing, everything we have, but you can literally ask the thin air a question nowadays and get an answer, right? So there's not much like jumping forward to like when we had to go to an encyclopedia or the library, like there was effort involved in that. We've got to find ways to create those experiences for kids. And then on the ice, ice, excuse me, Benelli, I'll bring you on this too. Like, drill structure matters. Like, one of the things that frustrates me as a coach is when the drill ends in a shot, and again, Mike Benelli made an unbelievable point about a year ago about why does every drill have to end in a shot? Yeah, another episode on that. But we'll do these drills and the kids will go through whatever we make them do, and then they go and they take this really weak ass shot on net. Like, oh, that's just how the drill ends. I'm like, what are you doing? Like, that's the shot. That's your chance to shoot on the goalie or just lobbing it at them. But here's the thing: there's no instruction. There's no instruction of, hey, if there's a rebound, stop and get your rebound. There's no instruction of pay attention to where the goalie isn't. There's no instruction of, hey, if you go across the real road or you make this movement, you might be able to get the goalie to do something different. Those are the critical thinking skills that, as coaches, you can introduce to really young kids, by the way. All right, but we're not doing it. It's just hey, skate through the cones, go to the net, do the breakout, go to the net. We can do better uh as coaches. And I one more thing. I'm I'm not trying to be hard on coaches. Most of you in hockey, youth hockey are volunteers. I'm trying to give you tools. All right. But it frustrates me as a coach when I see a kid take a weak shot on net. Like, there's so much you can learn from just taking a shot on net. I'm I'm getting mad, so I'm going to pass the mic on.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

I think I think that's I think that's that philosophy that you know you talk about, you know, what are you getting out of the practices and training? I think we all, like as a coach, when you're growing up, like when you're a young coach, like I I found a lot of value in the kids were sweating and tired, and and the parents are like, look at they beat the crap out of those kids today. You did a great job, you know? And I'm like, yeah, but they didn't learn, they actually learned nothing. Like they learned nothing. Like I could have done that like having them run to the parking lot and back. Like I didn't need to do that there. So it's like, it's just about what do you and again, all these organizations have different uh opportunities. I've had countless, countless arguments with coaches, like, do I want a full ice practice or do I want four half ice practices? Do I want like it's like all this, like is it comes down to money and resources and time. Like, listen, I just loved Mike, just talk to us about like at the pro level, right? Like when you get into these, like especially this time of year, right? Playoff season and that kind of stuff, like like the quality of your practice is more important than the quantity of time you're on the ice, right? Like, like the the the like you want to give back your time. Like, I don't need like, and I think parents, I think coaches should think about it the same way for our kids and the parents, like this is your time. I'm not gonna I'm gonna value it. I'm gonna give if I can give you a 45-minute practice, it's gonna be organized, it's gonna be intense, it's gonna be beneficial, and you're in, you're out, you're home, as opposed to hey, we're gonna have two and a half hour practice today. At the end of the day, there's like 15 minutes of puck, you know, of real action, right? So, can you just talk about how important it is, especially because the game has changed, there is less like we're almost have to we almost have to build in gym and free time into our structured environment because they're not getting it. So just talk about like the the balance of how you would do that as a coach now.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah, no, I mean you know, again, you know, like time ice time is so valuable, right? So you want to be you want to make sure that that everything is is is running tight, right? And to your point, you're like at the end of the day, you're like, wow, is that a good practice or not? Or did I just I just got them to sweat, you know, or did I complicate it up, or is it too simple, or you know, am I harping on the wrong things? Am I you know am I telling them uh you know what to do and that? And obviously, you know, you you know, this time of year in the NHL and that they're they're hardly practicing at all. And that's a whole different animal. I mean, that doesn't, you know, they're getting 15, 20 minutes, it's a pain. You know, it's hard even put on the gear, you know, at this point, you know, for guys, they don't even want to put the gear on, not for morning skate, you know, like it's it becomes such a marathon. You're like, I don't even want to put my I don't even want to strap my pads on again, you know. Today I need a day off, just not even put my gear on. I'll come to the rink, but I'm not gonna put my gear on, you know. But you know, you know, for uh again for kids, it's you know, the challenge of a coaching you talk about their volunteers, and it's so hard. Like it, you know, you've got your job, you're working, and you're now you're trying to put together a good practice, and everybody's got their style. Some people improvise, some people I I always had to really think it out. I like to write it down, I like to have it block off my time, and I just didn't like thinking on my feet. But you're you're gonna have to make adjustments anyway because now all of a sudden so-and-so got stuck in traffic. Three kids who ride together, they're not there to practice because they stuck. There's a car accident on the highway. Now they're now they're running late, so now you got to adjust again. One's your goalie, one's one of your goalies. So you're now you're down to one goalie, you gotta adjust all the time, right? So it's constant. But um, you know, it it's I I felt, you know, just being as a coach, being you know, energetic and and want and and getting them out there and and lots of puck touches and um you know it in and trying to mix it up and trying to be creative. And I always get too. I was a coach, I'm always like, do they like to do the same things all the time? Or you know, you introduce, I would step in my my my my brother-in-law's uh tier one U14 team. They're like uh uh girl, you know, girls tier one, and I'd step in for them, you know, at Fox Motors. And I would step in and introduce some new drills because he uh to do something, or you know, and I'd fill in and now I'm doing new drills. And I was like, Do they like my drills? Do is this a pain in the rear end for them? To like, you know, you got to think harder. Maybe that's good for them, you know. Maybe they got to change their thoughts, maybe they're thinking differently again, you know. And so, but you know, you're trying to look at their smile on their face, are they enjoying this drill? And I always felt the best thing was like when I had a drill going, they'd be like, and I'm and they could tell I'm moving, you know, they get to learn you. And as soon as I start chewing on my whistle a little bit, meaning I was gonna end the drill, I'm gonna switch it up, and they're like, one more, one more, one more, one more, I want one more rep, one more rep. You know, and I'm like, All right, and now I get a challenge. I'm like, so-and-so's challenge you. He wants, you know, he wants one more rep, or he wants a rep on this guy, you know, on a one-on-one. And you know, that was when I was kind of like, all right, I hit on that drill a little bit. I'll get back to that one because they're asking for another one, you know. They kind of liked it. So, um, and those are little moral victories I think you get as a coach through the year. You're like, all right, well, all right, they like that drill. They were crickets on the one drill. I had that one-on-one drill. There, I nobody really gave uh they didn't really like that one, so I gotta scrap that one, you know. But but like I loved it, I loved it when they said one more, one more, one more. I'll be like, okay, okay. And then all of a sudden you're doing five more, you know, because everybody wants another rep.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

A fun practice that I do, and I don't mean practice, I mean like like thing that I do after practice is I'll ask my daughter, I'll ask a couple of the players on my son's team, hey, what was your favorite drill tonight? And I'd say eight out of ten times I'm surprised by the answer. Yeah, because it's not the drill that I was like, I spent a lot of time on this. You guys saw the value on that. They're like, no, there's a stupid drill we did when I was in the corner, you know. So and the other thing I want to mention too, we have to say this as coaches. Um, hey, look, not every practice is gonna be great. You're gonna have some lousy practices, and that's okay. Oh, absolutely. It's okay, coach. And you'll know because it feels like, man, Mike Mike said, What did what did we just do? What was that was a disaster? It's okay. Like, they're not all gonna be great. Um, and and that you have the right to to not have a uh a great practice. Um, you know, but again, you show up again because you also know when you have a good practice because you feel it afterwards, you feel like, man, that was great. Uh, and and Benelli, to your point, when I feel the best after a practice, it's it's almost 95% because a kid probably said, Oh, I got it, or there was a light bulb moment, um, or there was some cohesion that wasn't there before. That feels really good as a coach. But if the kids come off smiling and you feel like you had a bad practice, you probably didn't. You probably didn't have as bad.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

There's two phrases I try to document throughout the season. It's hey, is this almost over yet? Or I can't believe it, we're done. Like, I can't believe we're done or like like so. You get like, and I used to get that in the coaching education uh program, you know, it was Ambony driver street. When you when the question at noon, like at the lunch, would be like, Hey, is this almost over yet? You're like, oh boy, this is not good. Like this, this, this, this, this clinic's going the wrong way. And we'll go back to Mike's clip with Censorina. I think it's a perfect segue for them to understand. You don't have to go to the rank and put your equipment on all the time. You can just throw on that headset and get your reps in. But I think it's like, you know, so Mike, I mean, I want to go back a little bit to you know, go into our our our brand new superstar kids at the early age, right? And then uh I'll I'll fast forward this to a group I've just recently worked with, which are really, really top 17 and 18-year-olds, like some of the best kids. And knowing that, like when I and I talked to the little guys when I first get introduced to them about how as the pyramid gets tighter and tighter and tighter, the skill, like you're gonna be around great players all the time. Like at some point, you're all really good. Like you're all gonna be great. And what are the traits and what are the you know, what are the things that you would give as your like top, you know, fundamental things that you must have as an athlete? When you're the best kid at nine and the best kid at 19, what is the thing that's gonna separate you though uh from you know from the coach's decisions? I call it, I call it, you know, the coaches when they mark their evaluation sheet, there's a lot of buts or ends, right? Like, I like this kid, but I don't like this, I don't like that, or hey, I love this kid and I love this, and I love that, and I love this. Talk a little bit about you know that because that's really at the end of the day, when it comes down to like when it really means something, when it means money, when it means theme, when it means like really your life, like you're like this is how you're gonna make your livelihood, you're picking people. Yeah, and talent's always gonna be there. Can you just talk about how important that is to build that in to our our youth hockey culture?

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you have you know, you have mental and like attitude side, and then you have the physical side. I mean, I think mental and attitude, I think the kids that do well at nine versus 17 or 18, the ones who don't believe, like they don't believe their own press when they're nine or 10 tend to do really well. The ones that believe a lot of their press when they're nine or ten tend to you know, not not get complacent, but um, then the family starts and all these things start, and then it's like this this drive, not this drive goes away, but you know, fast forward five or six years, they still think everybody's like nine and ten, and I was the best guy. And why am I not the best guy anymore? Because the red, like you talk about the rest of the field catches up. So it's the kids who the kids who don't feel that they're the best and and have keep kept going and they failed and they've been cut and and they keep working at it. And and you know, they're in the weight room, they're just trying to they're you know, they're just trying to make themselves better. That's the mental attitude. The the guys that the guys that aren't satisfied or don't believe their own press when they're younger, even if they are really good, but still are kind of humble and they just keep playing and they have that that inner fire uh to go. And then it's you know, as you get older, it's the kids again. When you have that, you might be a great skater when you're nine or 10 and skating right around other guys. And I watch guys who are great skaters at nine and 10, and they get that one trick and they're like, I know everybody can't turn, so I'm just gonna be one track and I'm just gonna skate right around everybody because I can. Well, when you're 15 and 16 and D figure out how to flip their hips and D can skate now. Well, now your old bag of tricks doesn't work. So the kids that were nine and 10, you had your bag of tricks. Well, is that bag going to keep evolving? And I always go back to Sidney Crosby when he came in the league. He was a huge passer. People started getting on him. Well, you know, he'd be like 20 and 60, 20 and 70 in there, and he's there. Well, he's not a big-time goal scorer. It's like, okay, so now he's scored, now he's pushing it to 35 goals, 40 goals a year, and and maybe he's 40 and 40 now, you know, and he kept evolving. People, people figured out a way to to to critique him for something, and then he figured out, okay, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna keep evolving as a player. So it's the kids who keep evolving as they go as players, and you might be super skilled when you're young, and you might be undersized when you're nine or 10. Well, you're gonna develop your game differently than a kid who's overgrown at 10 or 11, who's accelerated, who's ahead of the average national average in size. They they you know, a younger guy's gonna learn how to be a little more darty, have his head up, you know, handle the puck more, be more, you know, cut in, cut out, you know, tight turns and that avoid traffic where bigger guys just tend to plow through because nobody can get in their way and nobody can physically stop them. And those kids, if they get on a track that works for them, then they're probably it's hard to keep them developing and and and keep evolving. So um, you know, that that is a big tell all the kids who just keep working at it. And then physically, when you're 16 or 7, the game is all skating, right? It's a lot of skating now. And and the kids that you have to be able to skate. And another big thing, you do have to be able to skate, and and and a but a big thing when you get to be 17, 18, like people do your homework on you, right? They start to dig on you and they'll dig and they talk to you, they size up your parents, they size up where you've come from, they size up the people that have coached you, they talk to people. Hockey is a very small world, and it's it's one or two degrees of separation, and it's not hard to find out um something about a kid or where they came from or their parents or what's happened along the way and how they've gotten to a certain point. So, you know, uh uh character, how you are as a person, your your attitude and where you've come from, and and having that drive gets discovered, and and and coaches will have time for that. They'll work with a lesser talented guy who's gonna give them everything they got, versus the guy's a little more talented, but everybody's a pain in the ass around him. So, you know, you have to you have to really keep that in mind, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

I think in in in the same in the same breath though, too. Do you agree that a player that has a little bit of like like a player that has a little bit of an attitude problem, a player that uh that sometimes like doesn't look like they're really with the team. There is there are those players, right, that are just so like you're you're like, I'm the guy that's gonna change him. Like, like I know he's like just he's like he's like the kid, the guys are in the in the huddle at the beginning of the game, and he's kind of standing out inside looking at his girlfriend in the stands, or yo, he scores a goal and he's going to the he's going to the stands like it's me, it's me, it's like you do there is where is the breaking point of that? Like, where do you give up on that player?

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Well, it's hard. And it's it's it's it's on them, you know, it's gonna be on them. And you know what? It takes a smack you in the face moment. Really, something really's gotta happen. You know, where the player and everybody they gotta like the the light bulb's gotta go off and be like, hey, you know, like they gotta get a message somehow. And how how is that delivered? I don't know. Getting cut from a team that somebody somebody's supposed to make. Um Somebody who's uh uh a big time scout or somebody super important says, no, here and here's why, quite frankly, here's why. Like somebody's got to deliver, deliver the message, you know, at some point. How's that happen? That's a good point. And that happens with that's called maturity too. You know, kids will, you know, some will never get it, some have a really hard time, and then they don't get it. And they're 21, 22, 23 years old, and they're playing in a men's league, and they're like, Man, did I mess that up? You know, and there are cases that's that happens. It's a shame. It does happen, it happens to a lot of guys. I know, I mean, we all know if I would have done this when I was younger, if I would have done that when I was a little bit more when I was younger, oh, I was chasing girls, oh, I started drinking, you know, I was having beers with my buddies at 16, you know, and and that that was their choice and and and and and their decision, you know. And so that light bulb goes off. And I don't know, usually take something pretty catastrophic, not not catastrophic, but something significant to really and it and if it doesn't snap them out of it, then it's never going to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Yeah, but do you think like when you get when you get to that pro level though, doesn't I mean with the would the locker room be more the the barometer of that rather than like at youth level, you're just like I just need this kid. I mean, every time I need a goal, I put him on the ice, we get a goal. But at some point, like that, that that at some point the locker room is what controls the player, right? Yeah, and yeah, and that really comes down to like do you watch these guys that go through like the like that that just can't fit in. Um, you know, and you know, that does that just police itself at the higher levels?

SPEAKER_01 45:28

I think a lot of times it does. I think by the time you get to the NHL, I found the guys are pretty good. You know, I played with hundreds of hundreds of players. There are probably two or three, not even a full handful of ones. I was like, eh, not a quality person. Um, the process, the weeding out process happens along the way because there is a lot of stuff that happens along the way. And you know, even guys in the NHL, they get cut, they get sent to the miners, they get demoted, they get put on waivers. You got, you know, you don't make this team, you don't make a USA national team, you don't make the Olympic team, you don't. I mean, there are there are roadblocks, everybody's got roadblocks, you know, along the way. You don't get your contract renewed, you know. I'm a free agent, my team didn't sign me again. There's a wake-up call, you know. I get put on waivers. The biggest wake-up call of all time is when you get put on waivers, you're like, holy cow, like, geez, this is like this could go bad. This is not good, you know. And so, um, every player has that wake-up call along the way. Typically in the NHL, you've you've been woken up many, many times, whether internally in your own locker room, whether from somebody on another team. And again, I talked about two degrees of separation. Man, you get traded, the trainers know about you, the equipment guys know about you, the medical guys know about you, everybody knows about you. But if you start, I mean you see a guy starting to get dealt around, you really it's a head scratch, man. You're like, okay, what's with this guy? Because people like they still when you have the combination of great athletic skill and a good person, like teams hang on to you. You know, if you got a great skill and you're kind of a clown, like you're gonna start to move around a lot. Now, that's not fair, guys that move because of other circumstances, salaries, or whatever. I'm not that's not a full indictment on every guy that's been moved and played on different teams, maybe three teams in three years. Shit happens out there, like you know, guys make who's who played um who scored the game winner the other night for uh Colorado defensive Kulik played 25 games for three teams in one year. First player to ever do that. You know, he's not a clown, it's just the way it happened that that gotta fit, you gotta fit in. It's just the way it worked out that season. Like, yeah, don't believe it doesn't mean that he's got a problem. So it's not a full indictment, but you can see a lot of time the guys start moving around a lot and nobody commits to them. They're kind of like, well, okay, there's something going on here, you know, in all fairness. But but you know, the weeding out process happens, and like you say, usually there'd be a smack in the face, smack in the mouth moment where you get punched in the face, and you're like, not literally. I mean, you know, there's moments where you're like, Well, you know, yeah, you know, and it might you might get punched in the face, you might get punched in the face, physically, and you might be like, Oh, all right, you know, there might be a moment like that, but yeah, typically you get weeded out, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

For for the youth coaches, again, listening, you know, uh, and and you both kind of made this point earlier. Coaches, I would not underestimate, you gotta have some patience for this. When when you have, I don't want to say a trouble the kid, I don't think that's the right wording, but what I'm saying, when you have a kid doesn't fit in, that that's the way you put it, Mike. Um, you'd be surprised, coaches. Take take the second to kind of do the arm around the shoulder, not obviously literally safe sports, but you know, you know, sometimes the things you say to a kid can really make a huge difference. You know, I was having a conversation with a player recently about kind of the we versus the I mentality, and it resonated, right? And here's the thing when I go into that kind of that conversation, I don't I don't have a like an outcome and expect it. It's it's my job to have the conversation. If they get it, great. If not, I'll have the conversation maybe a couple more times. You know, Mike, to your point, if I'm having the same conversation with a kid 50 times, that's a huge red flag to me. All right. But but you know, I remember uh a few years ago, we had a kid moved in from out of town, big kid, and was really young, younger, younger ages, okay? But he's kind of bullying his teammates. And the parents were starting to get like that kid's a bully. That kid, and I'm thinking to myself, you know, this kid is just lost. He just he has no friends, he came from out of town, he's bigger. This is a natural response, right? So I pulled the kid aside. I just worked with him a little bit one-on-one. And then I started bringing in some of his teammates to do it. And you know what? He he totally fit in the lineup and it was fine after. He just he just was in a tough spot in his life. So I'm I'm just saying to all the coaches, that that uh, you know, again, figurative arm around the shoulder. We all owe it to the kids to do that every once in a while. And I'm gonna say this again: the key is with no ego, you can't do it expecting anything. They're kids, right? That you do it because it's the right thing to do, and you will change a kid's life if you do this. And and they and here's the cool part, uh, and again, I'm kind of young to say this, but I've been coaching long enough, like 20 years, that you know, kid they'll come back to you 10-15 years later and say, Hey man, this thing you said to me that I don't even remember saying that changed my whole life. That changed my whole trajectory. I never thought about that until you said that.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Or they come back to you and call you an ass. But that's never happened to me.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

Not that I know that that's never happened to me, Mike. No, but seriously, like like that's that's one of the greatest joys of coaching. I I did want to pivot back real quick, Mike. You you talked about the evolution of a player, you brought up Sidney Crosby. One of the things I want to impress to the coaches, the parents, and the players listening is how that evolution never stops. Uh, you know, an athlete came to mind. Now, this guy is a freak of nature. You guys hovered around the same teams and played together, is Yamir Jagger. And when I look at Yamir Jagger in 1992 and 2012 and 2022, they are all very different versions of this person. And he always changed his game to match. And again, for those of you that are that are younger, in 1992, this guy skated through every, I mean, he skated through everybody. I mean, it was unbelievable to watch him play. But you know, as he got older, and maybe some of that agility changed or his body changed, he had to change. And I remember hearing the famous quote uh from Scott Hartnell, who's been on the show, about how Jagger and Giroux were on the same line, and they were just telling Hartnell, hey, just get me the puck in front of the net, I'll just get to the net. You get me the puck. But the evolution never ends, right, Mike? It's like you got to adapt to the type of player that you are, and there's a lot of life lessons in this as well.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

Yeah, yeah, I know it is. And you know, Jagger's a a great player, and you know, uh, you know, I mean, is he in the hall of fame yet?

SPEAKER_00 51:16

I mean, he is, but um, but yeah, no, you hear that stat yesterday. I was listening to Hockey Prospects Radio. Did you hear the stat that for the this is the 46th? 46th year, yeah, that uh that a teammate of Yager's is in the Stanley will be in the Stanley Cup finals. That is unbelievable. I mean, it's just crazy. I mean, first of all, who's ever coming up with the stats is crazy, but yeah, but I mean 46 years of that, you know, you talked about earlier, Mike, about the the the degrees of separation are tiny. And think about this. There's an athlete that's gonna play in the Stanley Cup finals for 46 years straight that would have passed his path. And it's crazy, but it's a crazy thing. Like you think about like to if you ask those players, what was he like as a rookie and what was he like at the end of his career? What is he like right now playing in Europe? You know, I think it's it really did is a true value, uh, you know, uh evolution of a of an athlete.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Yeah, he's a lifer too. Like he loves, I mean, he loves hockey like more than that's why he's you know he owns the team there in check Check you uh, and you know, it's a big part of it, the business side of it. But he just loves playing hockey, you know. But but again, you know, things again. We talked about your bag of tricks. Like I, you know, when he was young and he could skate, he had really long stride, really long stick, and curly mullet hanging out the back. He always kept the hair, you know. Like, I mean, but but you know, he had his way and you know, playing with Mario and just kind of could you know power his way around. And that was when the league was very physical and he was built for it, and they could grab you and they hook you and impede your progress. And then, you know, like I think his generation and my age, we're all kind of the early mid-early mid-50s. When that started to open up, well, that freed up, you know, he was getting older, probably he's gonna be harder to butt heads with everybody, but now the game freed up in 2004, it became much more free-flowing for him and and fit right into his lap, you know, and he got to skate a little bit more and probably you know be a little more free and not as not as much uh um impediment around the ice. Yeah, yeah, as clutch and grab and impediments all over the place. So um, you know, it evolved for him. And again, you know, his joy of hockey, his joy of hockey really probably helped him evolve. He liked hockey so much he figured out a way to stay. Now he's blessed with more talent in his pinky than you know the three of us combined, you know. But it's like, you know, he's blessed with that. But but again, don't underestimate his heart and his desire and his the mental mental ability and fortitude that he just loved playing hockey and and uh you know, and he chose to evolve and keep going. And and uh he's blessed with talent. But you know, again, as players, if you want to play more than four or five years, you're gonna have to evolve because right you might be the young guy, you might be the star. And then when you're not the star, what are you bringing? You know, can you still come, can you still help this team? And when you're really not the star, what are you bringing? You know, and so that's those are those evolutions you face as a player, and you don't you don't know it till you're in it, you don't know how to do it, but you've just got to figure out how I'm gonna how I'm gonna survive, and you gotta you gotta be you gotta think, and you've gotta like kind of figure out how you're gonna make this whole thing work.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

You know, to the young players, one of the things I say sometimes, and I gotta preface this too, is that as a young player, you want to work on all your skills. Skating obviously is paramount above everything. You want to get better at everything, but one of the things I say to players that are maybe struggling, like uh we a quick example would be like, Hey, I'm just I'm not shooting the way I want to shoot. And one of the things I say to them is, Well, what are you doing good? And you can see that they've never thought that they're just all that they were so focused on I can't shoot, and they go, Well, my passing's fine right now, or my skating's fine right now. I said, Well, why don't we start with that and build from there and find what you can do good? Don't always focus on what you can't do good. The shot will come back, it always does, right? But that's a great question to ask kids. Like, well, what can you do? And I think when we're talking about evolution, a lot of it comes down to you know, those things. For example, you know, as you get older, kids, this is inevitable, like you will slow down, you will not have the speed that you had when you were young. This can happen at a lot of different ages. So you better focus on the things that you can do well and develop, and then putting this full circle. This is why it's so important to develop a lot of different skill sets and build that toolbox, build that toolkit. Because the more you have in there, the better. Like, we're not done yet. I just like we're we we're we could have you on for 15 more episodes of listening. Um, one of the things I wanted to ask you about specifically, you were a competitor, man. You were a warrior when you played. Um, still are, right? We always talk about the difference between competing, you know, and being competitive, and how we want to teach our kids, it's a valuable skill, not just in hockey, how to compete. Like your compete level. I don't know if that's at the same level it was when we were all growing up. There's a lot of obvious reasons for that. Okay, like you know, we were fearal generation where we were put outside until the lights came on. How can we help create more compete in kids today?

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Yeah, yeah, that's that's a good question, you know. And again, you know, the easy answer is say, well, you're born with it or not. But um, I think I think everybody's born, you you know, you have to compete. Um, uh, you know, and obviously that's a necessity. I think there's a big range of compete that kids are are are are dealt with as a coach, right? On your team. You have you have kids that'll go through the wall at the drop of the hat, and there's other ones that are, you know, more feet first, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna see how it goes, and then I, you know, maybe I can flip the switch a little bit more. Um, you know, that's that's really hard. Again, that's understanding your team, uh, is far as is what you have. But um, you know, uh a great way to do it. I I felt like to get to kick kids to push past their comfort level where they really want to like go for it. I, you know, timing things, you know, scoring things, you know, little compete drills, small areas. Um, um, you put a little challenge on it, whether it's for a candy bar or you know, Gatorade at the end of practice or or uh, you know, a penalty, you know, a skate, a little down and back, just something annoying, push-ups. You know, one of my my favorite things lately is a little three on three below the face off uh below the top of the circles. Um, if the if the team scores, they get the other defending team does three quick push-ups. Should they get the puck over this line? I draw a line all the way across top circles with uh with spray paint or marker and puck with possession over that line. The offense does three quick push-ups. Now the push-ups aren't the push-ups are just to get your attention, right? Just to make it a little bit more like uh a little more skin in the game. And I think I think doing that, doing little competitions to get skin in the game helps really drive that up. And and you know, just because it annoys them a little bit, not that you're teaching them some big lesson, but it's just annoying to get down and do three push-ups. Like it's just like it's a pain in my rear end to do it. And now I'm really like, okay, well, this really teaches so coaches like my kids don't compete away from the puck, they won't get over top of the puck. Well, this one to let them defensive teams got to carry it over that line at the top circles, they get over the top of the puck because they don't want to work, they they're probably working harder to get over the top of the puck than it takes the energy to do three push-ups, right? But the fact is they don't want to do the push-ups, so your trick, you know, creating that little competition to get back over the puck when we don't have it and track the puck like crazy, you know, is building that competition. So just little things they can figure out they don't like to do, like a little bit of an annoyance level, you know, like like makes them, you know, whether you go down and back, you know, little patterns get down and back, it's just something to get your attention, you know. And so I think that really helps drive up uh uh um uh compete level within your team.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

I'll tell you something that I do at 95% of my practices, regardless of level. If I'm working with the national team or if I'm working with the 10 U team, I will always almost always start the practice with some form of competitiveness or competitive drill. And here's the thing it could be a warm-up drill, but as you said, Mike, there's stakes. There's gonna be a loser on this drill, and there's gonna be a winner. And I do that because I talk to my teams about the competitive engine and that you got to turn it on immediately when we step on the ice. And I always say, is your team having slow first periods? I bet your practices start pretty slow, all right, in terms of the competitiveness. I'm not talking about the speed of the practice, right? So I always introduce competition immediately because I want them to feel that the second they step on the ice, and you know what? They show up to the games ready to go, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:21

So just a trip, I guess. I think I think for a lot of youth coaches I I I that I work with, I'm always like, uh, you know, the conversation always revolves around like you're doing all this great pre-practice dynamic warm-ups and all this kind of stuff, and the kids are engaged, and then you go out there and do a line drill. I'm like, so like what was the point? Like, if you're gonna like if you're gonna if you're gonna do the dynamic warm up, you've got your warm-up out of the way, you've got your mental, everything's moving, everything's going. Like, just jump in. Like, I you know, for me, I'm I'm probably on like the 90% different. Like, my whole like I literally run all practice is just games, it's just games, games, games, games, games. And and but the kids know, like I'm a big stickler when I, you know, I'm working with organizations that you got to let the kids know why they're playing the game. Like everybody thinks, oh, I'm doing three on three cross ice, I'm doing small area games. Yeah, but it's just like you might as well just do that full ice. The same three kids are gonna touch the puck. So, what are you doing though? Like, Mike, I love your scenario. Like, you're you're building constraints into the game, like there's a reason why the game is built the way it is because you're forcing them to do something that they normally haven't been doing organically, like they haven't been doing it on their own. So you're forcing them to do it and go, oh, well, that actually feels good. Like that works for me to do it that way because there's a reward. I got the puck and I didn't get punished, right? So I think that's where more coaches need to think about like how if you want competitive kids, like I know, like for me, like I make our kids if there's a shooting drill, they have to go to the goalie, like to the point where they gotta tap the goalie in the pad and say hello to him, and the goalie loses his his mind. Like the goalie gets so pissed off that that they're doing this because they think like you're making fun of them. Like, look how mad you're getting right now. Like, what do you think's gonna happen in the game? The whole game there's gonna be somebody in front of you. Like the whole game there's gonna be somebody battling and you know, and and and impeding your eyesight. So I think to build those little competition things in and the little banter and the ability to you know fight for pucks and hunt and and and be active, like I just think it's just a better uh you know, environment than doing a line drill where the kid probably passes it off the kid's back foot, the pastors get to get beat up, the other kids say, ah, screw it, I'll just pick up another puck. Like all this kind of stuff that happens, and then you watch your teams and like, well, of course that's what they look like in a game because there's no there's no competition based in practice. It's all easy flow drills that you know. Again, there's a time and a place, I get it. But the but the if you want to build competition and you want your kids to compete in games, then you better have 60 minutes of battling in practice because they just don't it doesn't translate to the kids because they don't want to go around a deviator and you know put a puck top shelf. So, you know, build in the competition. But I I think it's uh you know, to what you're saying, though, you know, that that ability, like you're you're teaching all those things. There's accountability when you fail, you have to follow directions, you gotta be thinking the game. You can't just react to going and playing, like all those little things that you're doing in that little constraint and that little practice plan. And to and to you too, Lee, right? That by building that you know initial run, like I love it. When my kids in five minutes into practice, and my kids are like hate each other, like I love it. Like they're like, the rest of the practice, they're like, ah, that was in the goal, that was you know, that was off sides, and that was the whole practice of them you know competing. I actually did a thing with this weekend, we had two groups of kids on the power play, and I would just go, nope, other power play one, score it again. Nope, power play one, score it again. And and you could see the elevation of the second group wanting to get on the ice. They were they were like ravenous about getting, and they go out and do work, you know. And I think it was just like building, like when you have the ability to control that, that's a great that's a great opportunity because now you can now you can teach it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:09

I always say too, look, land like earth is not made through a smooth and beautiful process, it involves volcanic eruption, lightning, uh, a lot of horrible things have to happen, you know, for land to be created. And that's the environment that growth happens, right? And it's like growth is rarely smooth. All right, it's you've got to create the obviously not saying it's gotta be horrible for the kids, but you've got to create the chaos for the growth to happen. If everything is hunky-dory and you're just skating, you're gonna get beat at times because there's another team that just wants it more than you do.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

So yeah, it's been a great discussion on compete for sure. The good thing, yeah. The good thing that compete too. I mean, a lot that you know, you start playing with uh, you know, higher-end players, like it's infectious, right? Like, yeah, they catch on. A lot of that's infectious. Same with same with laziness, it's infectious, too, you know. And I used to say it's my coach, I said that there's a lot of things that happen that's very contagious around here, you know. And if if certain guys start doing certain things, and then the rest of the the group follows through. So you get some guys competing, and and uh a lot of a lot of guys uh will like I say it infects them too, and they'll they'll they'll join usually. Hopefully, that's that's when you're like, Oh, you're really happy with my team. Like they they caught on. They're look at this guy compete now. Look at him go now. He wasn't doing that a month ago, look at him go now, you know. And those are things that's development. Like, parents don't see all that all the time. They see that, but you know, as a coach internally, you're like, Oh, look at this, he's changing as a player. Well, you know, it's hard to quantify. Parents don't see it necessarily, but you're like, as a coach, you know it. You're like, this kid's he wasn't doing that a month ago, he'd quit on that play, and now he's going for it, you know. And so now it's uh those are little victories you have as a coach going through the year, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:52

And they translate to real life, so with the ROI being life lessons, you know, nothing competes harder than the real world, right? So you better get those those uh those reps in now. Uh Mike, a couple more questions for you, then we'll let you go. But um, you know, this one's a kind of a bomb of a question in terms of like there's a lot of answers you could probably have. So I'm just gonna ask you to pick one, right? What's maybe the best coaching advice you ever got? What's something somebody said to you that said, you know, really again changed the trajectory or something that you remember that really pushed you forward?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Uh yeah, and it's funny, it's funny. I had a coach Robbie Fitoric um uh in Boston, early 2000s. Robbie's known for not, he's a little bit out there, right? Like he was a little unique as a coach. I thought one of the cool things he did actually was he had like a logbook, like a um a notebook or whatever. Every player that played for him, he'd have you, you know, you get called up or you knew new coach, you come in and sign his book. So he kept uh I thought it was kind of unique anyway. But uh Robbie was he was certainly quirky, you know, and and and he thought a little bit different. He kind of was he'd look at you with a puzzled look on your face, like, I don't know what you're gonna say right now. And um, you know, for for a time he didn't think much of me as a player at all, you know. And I mean, tell him tell him to my face, you know, I see you as like a four, you know, like a five on a scale of one to five. You're like a three, five or four to me. Like you're and one's best, and five is not the best, you know. One one is a top player, you know. And and he's like, You're like a three-five. Like, what do you, you know, what do you do? And you know, blah, blah. Um, um, and he's he used to have a comment, he'd say, you know, I I don't pick this team, you guys pick the team. And as a player, I'm like, that's a bunch of shit. Like, I hate that comment. That's stupid. I don't, I don't get, you know, like I'm like, I don't play, I don't pick the team, you guys pick the team. I'm like, Well, it's you know, that's a bunch of BS. Like, that's stupid. I hate that. I don't, I don't like that. And another reason why kind of bugged me as the coach for a long time, you know, and I was gonna, that's another, I don't agree with that at all. And then uh, you know, it's something I digest I later on, I'm like, okay, okay, now I'm now I'm picking teams and and trying to get teams together. I'm like, you know what? I don't pick the team. I'm like, the players pick the team. And I had I remember one year I was going as a 14 youth, and there was a kid, and his name was his name was Bryce, and he's he's from an hour away. I don't know if he played tier one hockey, played low tier one, but I'm like, I've got nine Fords this year. I'm I'm just going nine. Nice round numbers for me. I like it. Our area, there's not you start, you know. I just like my numbers. Uh I got the perfect spots, everybody's accounted for. I'm like, I like this. Well, this kid is hanging around, and this kid is just you know, playing with us in spring. I took an extra body or two, and we kind of somebody vouched for this kid. I'm he's all right, he plays pretty hard, whatever. And I'm like, all right, okay. Well, I'll look out for spring. Well, we play practice. We're like, okay, he's diving in front of pucks. Uh, he's chipping in goals, he's going to the crease, he's stopping, he's jabbing at pucks. I'm like, okay. So we play an exhibition game or two, play a couple spring summer games, you know, another tier one team in Detroit. I'm like, this kid, he's diving in front of pucks in games. Like the kid just wanted to make the team. I had no plans to take Ted forward. I don't want 10, it's just another thing. I like my groups, I like my guys. Everybody's just playing a lot. I don't want to over, I don't want anybody missing anything, no juggling, just everybody play. And this kid, and I I still tell the story, he just would not let me not take him. You know what I mean? And like he just battled, battled, battled, you know, and he went on to play in the North American League. I think he's gonna play division three or something now, but but that kid just had the heart, right? And he just kept willing himself there. And and that's that's a good example of the player. You guys, I don't pick the team, you guys pick the team, but he made it so he's worthy, and he's like made it so I couldn't take him. It would have been weird if I didn't take him because it was like he was just giving me every every effort that I'm talking about on the board and to the team, he's giving it to me. Like, why am I not taking this kid? Right. So I'm like, I guess we're having 10 this year because I can't not take this kid, you know. And so um, you know, it's just just something like that. And as a coach, I had no plan. My my mind was closed as a coach. It was like, there's nobody else out here, there's nobody here. And then well, you gotta take an extra guy. Okay, that's fine. Just take you know, we'll take him, we'll take him. And then all of a sudden, you know, within two weeks, he's like, he's wormed his way right in there into my heart, and just you know, I'm like, I can't not take this kid now. He's just he's not my talented, he's not my most talented, but he's giving me everything I'm preaching to the other players. He's doing. I'm like, what am I supposed to do here? So yeah, it was great. And a great family and everything. Awesome, it's great relationship.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

I always see like that's the hardest part, you know, like when we select teams, right? That we don't really get to see a full body of work on a kid, and sometimes we're enamored by like that three-day tryout and that opportunity to pull a kid on a team. You're like, you're like, and then you know, the way the rules are and some of the structure we have, you know, you don't have a lot of wiggle room to like build kids in, you know, because we have budgets and people pay and they want to know, like, I can't have 23 kids on the roster, or like, yeah, how do I do this? I mean, I I almost wish at the older levels, you know, we could just, you know, you find you just if you could find a way to carry more kids, 28, 29, and just do different things with your games because the evolution of a player throughout the year changes so much that I think that's why, you know, when you look at like college programs and stuff, there's so much success, right? Because they can carry all those, like even now when you look at the rules, like they're wanting to carry less and less players, and there's just less opportunity for kids to break in because now you know you're being evaluated on a very small window as opposed to like what you're doing, like what you had to do, was like, okay, wow, I like if I would have seen this kid on day one, he's on me, he never is he never played for me. Like now that I've seen this kid on week 14, I'm like, I gotta find a way to get this kid in the lineup every day. Like, so it's like uh you know, it's a it's it's a thing where if we talk about development, we talk about you know that we're developers of talent, then you gotta give more kids an opportunity to be in that that that that that machine of yours, right, to develop the kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, it's yeah, it's hard if you it's for every coach out there, it's hard. If you if you haven't seen kids before and you're trying to pick a team in three days, that's that's it's that's you're gonna you're gonna make mistakes all over the place, you know. And so as a coach, you gotta kind of you know your coach and you gotta do a little homework, you know. And again, you're a volunteer, you're doing this stuff, and maybe you're parent, maybe you're not, but again, it's you know, it it helps to do some homework and know who's in your area and you know what kids might be coming out and that, and so you can make a better judgment, you know, not have a bigger body of work. And I think in all fairness to a player, you know, it's like it's not it's not on these three days, it really isn't. And sometimes maybe it's set up and you have to do it three days. But for me, I tried like it's a full body of work. I know what you've done, I've talked to other people, I've gotten a little more information about you, and it's it's hard, you know. It's it's and like you said, people are different time constraints, uh, budget constraints, or organizational demands, what the people above you are demanding, and and what your market is and what you got as players and and experience and all that. So it's it's there, there's no one size fits all for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:31

Well, and I'll say this like kind of the adverse, it's tremendous advice, Mike. You know, the the adverse, and uh I'll preface this again with you're dealing with people, so there's no perfect processes here. But what I tell kids sometimes at an eval is for the kid, hey, make it impossible for them not to take you. That's what Bryce did. I got a couple other quick ones in my mind. I'm thinking of an end of the story first. He's an NCAA goaltender, short goaltender, and he went from Philadelphia out to Western Canada for a tryout, and he made the team. And I remember him telling me that they told him you made the team because you made it impossible for us not to take you. Everything we looked for to cut you wasn't there, and we were looking that that was their viewpoint of what we're trying to find a way to cut a goalie, and you made the team because we couldn't. And he's in the NCAA now. Now, here's here's another version of it. And again, I don't play the what if game ever, but this is a great one from my experience where I was at a camp, had five points in two games, doing really good, all right. And I would have done everything, anything, right? And I remember I did not make that team because I didn't get in a fight at the eval, all right. And the thing is here's the thing, I would have fought, it's not like I didn't fight. Oh yeah, no, I know that's how it was. So he was like that back in the day. If you weren't fighting, there was a problem, yeah. Yeah, right. I actually remember uh really hitting a guy in front of the net to in instigate a fight and he didn't fight, yeah. And I didn't make the team because of that one thing. And here's the thing like there's no hard feelings on that. That that just shows you the margin, and like you know, people that are goal upsets at five points in two games in a really high level, but I didn't throw hands and I didn't make that team. They were looking for that, yeah. So you gotta find as a player, and I'm not suggesting kids that you go fight ever, by the way, nowadays. This is a different time we're talking about. But you you gotta find you gotta find ways of making it impossible. Like you said, that's what Bryce did. All right, and I I love I I agree with you 100%. The players pick the teams, and as I've evolved as a coach, you know, I'm partial to telling my players that like, look, there's a tremendous amount of trust. Like, like the trust goes both ways. You're trusting me to give you the tactics, to give you the structure to play, but at the end of the day, I'm not out there. So you have to be creative within that structure. But that's the relationship we have. You are gonna play these games. I'm not gonna ever say you win or lose the games. We do that together, but there's an environment, all right? And and you gotta find a way to stand out within that environment, right? So I just think that's great advice. Um, Mike, I gotta ask you again for those of you who who have been with us the whole time, I teased it at the start of the episode. And I know you've been waiting to hear about Scotland. So with the I'll pass the hour mark, Mike. How was Scotland? Uh, just as an experience, how were the fans? You know, how was the hockey? Like, uh, I we just wanted to follow up because that's that's the reason we had you on in the first episode originally.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:21

Yeah, no, it was great. Ryan Ball, who directed the whole thing, did an awesome job, and it was in Edboro. So we played three hockey games at the Edinburgh Capitals Arena. Probably had 1,700 fans, probably had 3,000 on Saturday night, Wednesday night, 1700, 3,000 on Saturday, and then probably 2,000 on like a late Sunday afternoon. Um, probably about 20, you know, 22 to 25 guys who might have played a couple games the NHL or a thousand games the NHL. Got some local guys that to fill in, um, some uh good quality players that Ryan knows. Uh other North Americans came over. So probably 20 plus NHL guys. Um, played three hockey games. I got six rounds of golf in. I booked uh side golf for myself. Yeah. Carl Alsner, uh, I played with in DC, Matthew Perot, I played with in DC, and then Nate Boilo, who uh uh was another guy I didn't know, but Matthew knew him. So we bounced around to six different courses, made it. The group took us to St. Andrews. So we went up to St. Andrews and played in the town there. Didn't play the old course because we had six uh groups. You don't want to be in the six groups on the old course.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:25

Yeah, yeah. But it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

I think the weather was like weather was like sunny and 50 low 50s, uh partly cloudy every day, not a drop of rain. Edinburgh is a beautiful town. Um, I activated some muscles that I hadn't used in a while, you know, like the under, I call it the my undercarriage, you know, kind of up in there, you know, that uh the area around between your uh your hips and all that, you know, above your above your thighs and below your navel. That area was on fire between walking, golf, you know, walking 30s, you know, walk. So we'd go out and play golf. We'd go out 45 minutes, go play golf, uh, come back in town and play a game that night. So it was it was a lot, but it was it was it was great. I mean, it was it was a really good time. Put it this way, I'd go back in a heartbeat, you know. Yeah, I think I was the oldest, I think I was the oldest guy there by 10 years. I mean, most of these guys were in their early 40s, so I'm like early 50s. So I was like, like, like it was it was it was good, it was fun, it was really good. It was it was well done. Ryan Ball, like I said, did a hell of a job with it. Um, we had a blast. Everybody there had a great time and and got a ton of golf in. I've already got like 20 rounds of golf in this year, like just because of that. Handicap's gone up three, three, three points already, which is good too. I win some money, so which is good.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

For those of you who haven't had the pleasure of traveling to Edinburgh, uh very hilly up and down terrain, it's not flat in any way. Uh the nice part is that is there's so much whiskey distilleries there that that helps with the pain. Uh, but buyer beware because it's very smooth, because it was great yesterday. But I'm glad you had a wonderful time, Mike. And and look, power to you. Like, like not that your age matters, but like that's that's awesome that you were able to do that um and and lead in. And I'll say this too, that you know, it it's huge for the fans over there, right? Because uh, you know, look, I the audience knows I coached in in the UK for several years. Uh they are just as ravenous for the game as as Canada or the United States, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

Yeah, yeah. It's that you know, it's it's a niche, and um, you know, it's unique. It's so much soccer, and or obviously, you know, they for their football football, yeah, hurling in Ireland. I mean, there's all these other sports they play, and so hockey's kind of a niche thing. And you know, the fans that did some of the VIP stuff, they had unique stories about, you know, they you know, I got onto the Washington Capitals years ago, and my wife and I, it's what we do, or they're you know, some of them came down from Fife. You know, Fife is up by St. Andrew, they come down. Milan Luci uh played in this game, and he's played in Fife this year, and um uh uh Kino Kiano Yamamoto played in Fife, you know, and so um there were some guys that that played over there and they had that. So there are it's a bit of a niche sport for sure, you know. Um, I thought one of the cool things we were in Belfast last year, and because the Catholics play soccer and the Protestants played hurling, or it was vice versa. The the people were like, Well, let's get something no no religions can argue about. Let's bring in hockey, run in hockey to Belfast. And it's like, you know, it's been a huge success in Belfast. So um that area, it's a really really unique um uh UK in that and you know, in Northern Ireland, really unique places to be around hockey. And uh the people, you know, got their jerseys on, they love it, and it's uh uh it's a lot of fun. So I think our Saturday game, you know, with 3,000 people is really entertaining. It was 7-6. I think we went USA lost all three games. We played US against Canada, we lost all three games. Wednesday's game was uh Saturday's game was really good. 7-6. I think they won it in the last minute, so we gave the fans a great game, and then uh and then Sunday's was pretty good too. But um, you're almost like, uh, I feel like we're like the WWE. Like, did we put on a good show for them today? But um, it was great. I thought Ryan did a hell of a job, and like the uniforms and the warrior buckets and cold town brewing. This brewer in Edinburgh took care of the players and the families, and I mean treated us great. So it was it was really, really a lot of fun. So I go back there in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:11

Yeah, we joked that Canada had to win something this year. Yeah, yeah. So it's I know no to our Canadian Toronto specifically. We love you. You know, we love you.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:20

I know, I know, but Matthew Perot, a guy I played with in DC, had a nice run in DC and then a nice run in in uh Winnipeg, and uh um uh he had like nine goals in like three games. I was like, man, I think the Edborough GM's gonna might come down. I want to talk to you after the game here, even though you're mid-30s, you know, he's uh you know, he plays a lot for the Canadians alumni and he plays a lot, he's pretty slick. He had like nine goals in this thing. I was like, stop scoring, bro. Like make it as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:44

You might make a deal. Well, I I would I'll tell people this if I if I could go live there again, I might consider that. It was such a lovely time and lovely people. But uh, Mike, we're out of time, man. Another fantastic I think you've totally earned the trilogy of episodes here. We're gonna have to have you back on again. Uh but the covenant trilogy keep it rolling, keep it rolling.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:03

But um, thanks for all the time today, man. Yeah, give me uh give me like three, four beers, and then we'll really we'll be uh two hours and shut up. My wife's like, you don't shut up then.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:13

Yeah, uh we'll change the name of the show for that, just adults who like hockey, and then we'll we'll have a powwow. But uh that's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Mike Kanoble, always a wonderful guest, and uh Mike Vinelli, always a wonderful co-host to me. Uh, we can't thank you enough for listening, gang. Listen, if you've got questions, comments, thoughts, episode topics, anything you want to share, email us at team at our kidsplayhockey.com. Or as always, there's a link accompanying this episode in the description. Tap that, text us, we can text back, you could send voice messages, you can do whatever you want. Does not have to go on the air. We just love hearing from you. Uh, and for those of you that do that weekly, we appreciate you. But have a great day, everybody. Enjoy your hockey, enjoy your spring, summer, winter, or uh what fall, whatever season I forgot. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at When Hockey Stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.