The Work Behind Youth Hockey Coaching - Fun, Fundamentals, and Accountability with Coach Tre Berg

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Leah Lyas, joined by Mike Vennelli and Christy Casciano Burns, the greatest podcast line in the history of hockey podcasting. We need you to put that on t-shirts and wear them around your town. Please don't do that. I'm obviously joking. Our guest today, Trey Berg, represents the heartbeat of youth hockey, something all of you understand. He grew up playing in the Syracuse area. He played junior hockey, played at the collegiate level, and now serves as a head coach for the Syracuse Nationals and the Syracuse Galaxy AAU program. He is the mid-state Might coordinator. He runs skills clinics. He coaches players from A to AAA. He balances a full-time career as a police officer, and he's raising multiple hockey players of his own. This should resonate with most of you listening. The guy has a job, right? And he also has a job, right? He does the hockey and the job, you all understand that. He knows the pressures of tryout season. He knows the pressures of youth hockey. He knows the budget realities of ice time. He knows what it takes to build a team culture with volunteers, with parents, with the kids. And he is here with us today. Coach Trey, welcome to Our Kids Play Hockey. How's everyone doing? Thanks for having me. Trey, it's great to have you here. Yeah, we what we love about you is that because you're so in the trenches, and so many of our listeners can relate to what you're experiencing right now, what you're going through. But let's give a little background about you first. So you you grew up playing hockey, you play college hockey, you play junior hockey, um, and now you're a youth hockey coach. That perspective must help you tremendously as you're guiding these young players now. Absolutely, yeah. Um, I grew up playing hockey, so I've been around hockey my whole life, um, at the triple A level, double A level, uh, and then eventually went on to play juniors and then went to college. Um, so yeah, it's been a it's been a great experience, but now I uh get to be a coach and a dad as well. So and how does that has that perspective helped you? Absolutely. Yeah, so I I had the opportunity growing up to play for some great coaches. Um some of them who I still reach out to to for advice. Um I look at them as mentors. Uh when I played, there was a strong emphasis on you know teaching fundamentals through having fun. Um, and that's kind of what I learned as a player, and now I'm using it in my coaching, you know, journey. Um, my my big thing is if if the kids aren't having fun, uh they're probably not engaged with anything you're teaching them. So fun first, and you know, there there is a way to teach some very advanced skills and fundamentals, um, but they gotta be having fun um in order, you know, to resonate anything with them. You know, you so the so the the hockey world, right, doesn't doesn't really go round uh if not for great volunteers. And I think, you know, I think you fall into that category that we'll well we're gonna in this for this episode we're gonna call you a volunteer, right? But we know that we know that uh work gets in the way of hockey a lot of times and uh and just you know your day-to-day operations of of trying to build a hockey program, you know, in in the you know, kind of the shadow of your own career and your own your own background and the people that you've worked with and you have your own philosophies and ideas. And I think we all look at like as a volunteer that, oh, let's just be an easy thing. Like I'm helping all of these families, I'm helping all of these kids, you know, have a have a uh you know, have a great experience. But can you just describe a little bit about like what parents don't see from your perspective, what happens outside of just your daily, you know, making sure the kids are trying to have fun type of environment. Yeah, so there's a lot of time and effort that goes into this behind the scenes that a lot of people don't see. I mean, it takes hours to come up with practice plans and you know, all the behind the scenes stuff. Yeah, it's not just showing up to the rink and you know, magically appearing with some practice plan. You have to sit down and be prepared because the second you're not prepared as a coach, someone's gonna notice. And you know, so that's basically what it comes down to. Um, you know, just magically show up and and run a practice. You have to put the time and effort in at home. Um, and the parents, you know, they may not see that, but as long as you come prepared, then you're putting a good product out uh out there for them. So that's what I've tried to do. I mean, do you see through? I mean, I know from my my perspective always now, you know, just just working with other people's children, right? That and I I'm I'm fortunate that I get to volunteer my time with my son's team now, right? So uh when you know, one of the things that I try to let people know is like normally I wouldn't be here coaching a Bannham team. Like this is just not something like that I I feel like I want to invest all my time and effort into. But if my kid's on a team and I'm a volunteer coach here in this situation, I can help. I mean, can you just describe a little bit about like what why you know your philosophy and coaching, even your you know, having your own children play and you coaching is just making sure that they have a great experience and how that's just gonna give all these other people that that that same experience, right? I mean, that's the the role of the volunteer coach. You've you've kind of said this a couple of times in just describing what you do. You know, you didn't say, like, I want to make sure my kid has fun. You're like, I want to make sure every child has fun and all the kids are learning. And I think we I think a lot of us um you know, outside when we're watching coaches do their thing, we forget the perspective that the volunteer coach, you know, really d doesn't have the luxury of caring about one kid or even their own kid, right? You have to worry about all of the kids. And you know, that philosophy, it sounds like to me that's something you've embraced and and been able to uh you know build around. Yeah, for sure. Um, you know, it's it's just not my my kid out there. There's 16 other kids that you know I have to give my best to every day and every every time I show up at the rink. Um and yeah, it it we I want to create a a good environment and um you know, so everyone's having fun and everyone's developing. Um so yeah, it it's a lot, but uh, you know, it's fun to do, and you know, I want to make sure that all the kids are having fun. And the other thing too is, you know, we're there's more to it than hockey, right? Like we're we're trying to um teach these kids life lessons, you know, stuff that they can use um as young adults, and you know, it's there's more to it than than just being a better hockey player. We're we're trying to make better humans, you know. So no, Trey, you're hitting the you're hitting the nail on the head here. And you know, here's the thing with this audience. I we're we're all talking right now about having fun. So in the true nature of how we do this show, I think we as a group right now actually have to define what fun is in youth hockey because I think that you know, a lot of there's parents out there say, Oh, what happy clappers, right? Doesn't matter if you win or lose. Like, no, that's not it's not exactly it. Like, you know, the winning and the losing plays a very small part into what we do. Like, I do care, right, to some point about how we compete. I don't go into a game hoping to lose, right? Right, right, but I don't necessarily go into the game also being like we have to win. I actually I rarely do that at the youth level, right? You know, when you get to a big playoff game, you obviously want to win. But let's define what fun is and let's connect it from the parent mind to the kids' mind because I think what parents think is fun, which is usually winning, is not the fun that the kids are having, right? So why don't we go around the horn and talk about what does fun actually mean in youth hockey? That's a great question. Um, you know, like like you said, you know, the the kids they just want to win, and I want to win just as much as they do, right? But it might not be always the most important thing, you know, going and playing a team and losing by three goals to a really good team could be a very good thing for their development. Right. And you know, the kids, the kids don't understand that, you know. So fun, you know, on the ice in practice, we want to be as engaged with the kids as possible. You know, I jump in the drills with them, and when I score, I'm selling just like they are, you know. Right. Um, so on the ice, having fun, but the hotel rooms, uh, you know, mini sticks, all of that stuff, like the way the way the kids interact with each other. Um, you know, there's there's more to it than just getting on the ice and and playing a fun game. Right. And I'll say this too. And it's it's funny we bring this up. I just got back from coaching at an event in Chicago, and this event had a very high stakes, uh, you know, national team level five-on-five tournament. We also had a three-on-three tournament going on at the same time, similar level players. And the five-on-five tournament came with all the emotion you would expect of a very high-level tournament, you know, losses hurt, you know, the ups and downs. But these are competitive athletes and they understand that. The three on three tournament, what was funny about that is I don't think the teams that were coaching won a game, but my goalie came up to me afterwards, and I and it was it was not close, and said, That is the most fun I have ever had playing hockey. And it actually stuck with me for a minute of wow, we are playing at the same place, the same tournament with just different rules, but the nature of the three-on-three just allowed them to remember of oh, this is great, this is fun, right? We have to tap into that at all levels because if you're not having fun playing a game, I always like to say that you're playing the game wrong. It's got to be fun, or what's the point? Absolutely. Yeah, I think my perspective's changed so much from you know where where you're at and what you're doing, coaching, and then what the expectation of what fun is, right? Because like, you know, when I was you know, if I'm on if I'm behind the bench of the college team and fun for me is winning and develop, you know, you know, and and and and representing a a school and watching student athletes, you know, follow a plan of attack and to win games. I mean, it really and it is a job, and that's my job is to make sure students graduate from college and win hockey games. That's it, right? Stay out of stay out of jail every now and then. So that you know, so and so my the other side of that though is like that when you get down to the youth level, and I think for me in particular, and I think, you know, um, you know, Trey, I'd like to hear your point of view too, as a player, and somebody who's played at a very high level and competed, and and as a as a profession of a police officer in a high stress environment, like this the fun part is less about winning, although you want to compete and show effort and do all those kind of things, but the winning part really doesn't play uh that big of a role in the scheme of things when you're working with seven and ten-year-olds, right? I mean, the the the the effort and the attitude and and and showing you know a competition base for a kid. To me, at that level, that's where the fun is. And I think maybe that's the disconnect between parents and coaches that have that, you know, depending on where they're at in their in their you know background of hockey. That well, this is fun because when when it gets to be its only winning, the fun is a different fun. And I and I don't know if I don't know if I'm even articulating that it's the competition, like like competing is fun. You learn how to make competing fun. And at the highest level, at least what I've found is like that's the fun part. You have earned the right to compete. That's fun. But that that that when you're 10 years old, that's a different monster than when you're 25 years old, right? Because a 10-year-old doesn't have the maturity yet to understand that that competing is fun. They're still trying to compete to get up to go to school in the morning, right? Like that's that's what they think is competition. No, no, yeah, yeah. So I, you know, so I don't know. So I but I love the idea of of the defining, and then that's something probably we should talk about, right? Uh, you know, is that when you when you're define when you're having your parent meeting and you're introducing yourself to parents and you're getting in, you're building your you're building who you are as a coach and and you're bringing those people into a room or setting out your mission statement, uh, you know, how are you defining what you're gonna do with the kids? Like, what are you doing to make sure that the parents are helping you supporting in your role as a volunteer to understand like here's my expectations, here's how I'm laying my season out, and I don't want you, you know, having a surprise in December that I'm not the coach that you thought I was in April. Yeah, it's it's super important to be very transparent with your parents in that first, like we just had our first parents meeting um right after our first practice, right? So, parents meeting to start the year, lay out the expectations. Um tell them, give them a background on yourself, let them know what your philosophies are. Um, you know, I always tell my parents, you know, these kids are eight years old, right? So everyone's gonna play. Um we're not shortening the bench for eight-year-olds. Yeah, might there be a time at the end of a period, or if we're in a championship game of a tournament where I might, you know, throw out my best line with two minutes laughter, whatever. Sure, but everyone's gonna play, you know. Um, but as they get older, that might not always be the case, you know. So yeah, it's just you gotta be transparent, um, open line of communications um throughout the season. At least that's how I am. Um, I know there are guys out there that just don't want to deal with the parents and and don't, you know, but I always they know if they have any questions, concerns, pick up the phone, give me a call. If I don't answer, I'll call you right back. And I work night, so if you want to call me at two in the morning, I'll answer. You know Trey, you're always on call. Um, I I'm just curious, how did your season go? And were there moments where you you hit some blows? And how did you get through that? Are there some you know, takeaways you can give to other coaches out there to help a team get through some of those difficult moments of the season where maybe kids just feel like, ah, we keep losing. There, this is just no fun anymore. Like, how do you build that momentum? How do you keep it going? Yeah, um, we had a great season. Uh, it was actually far exceeded my expectations. Um, you know, they're eight, but they're playing against the best eight-year-olds in the country at this level, you know. Um, so the parents, they know that it's gonna be challenging. Um the kids know it's gonna be challenging. The season had its ups and downs. Um we cried, you know, when we lost a championship, you know. Um, but you know, overall it went really good. Um so I mean, I do it, I do it over a hundred times. You know, we came into the season a little not nervous, but I didn't really know what to expect because I knew we were gonna play some really, really good competition. Um, but awesome, awesome, awesome group of kids, uh, super engaged. All of them were coachable, they all paid attention. We had fun the entire season, and you know, it turned out to be amazing. Um, and I can only hope for that this year, too. What do you think the key to that was? Um well, I think especially with with eight-year-old kids, um it can be hard at times because they get messing around and um but it just a really great group of kids. Um and kind of what I do with my practices, right, is I always have the kids moving. So if I'm doing a drill, I might have four lines of four kids, right? So before as soon as they get back, they're going again. They don't have time to mess around, you know. We keep a fast pace and a high tempo, and but for me, I was just so fortunate to have just an amazing, amazing group of kids and an amazing group of parents, too. Um, so I I think that was the key to it. You know, Trey, you said something there that I want to shout out to all their parents, you know. Because I we we do get asked a lot, hey, what can my kid do? What can we do? Like, I I think most parents want their kids to do great, right? Yeah, again, you have the occasional parent that thinks that they're coaching the kid from the sideline is helping, which it's not, but you said the word coachable. Parents, one of the things I would tell your kids, no matter how young, right, is hey, be coachable. Coaches want to coach. Parents, coaches wanna coach. We want to coach your kids, but they gotta be coachable. All right. Like I joke all the time uh about my favorite teams, the coach, or the ones where the kids ask questions and they want to learn and they come up to me and say, Can you show me this? Can you show me that? Or adversely, I go to them and I can see I have their attention, they're looking at me. The thing that is frustrating, I'm not gonna say I hate it, is frustrating, and I'm everyone, everyone here listening and coaching have heard this when you say, Hey, listen, when we get in this situation, why don't we do this? I know, I know, and I'm like, but you don't know, do you? Because I'm not telling you this because you know, right? And and that's that's coachability, right? And and look, I'm saying that with a grain of salt because that's a very normal response for like a young kid, all right. But that's what you can tell your kids, hey, be coachable. Your coach wants to coach you, you know. I think and I think that Trey, I you I can tell from just meeting you that's the type of person you are. Yeah. Um, you know, I'm also transparent with the kids too. Like, you know, before before the season, or if I'm doing a clinic or something, I just go right out and say, guys, uh, we're hockey coaches, we're not here to be babysitters, so let us be hockey coaches. Yeah, you know, just tell the kids that, you know, and so yeah, just it's we're teachers, right? We're we're teachers at the end of the day. And it's like you know, it's funny. I've got kids that come up to me, I shouldn't say kids, like on the higher level teams, they will come up to me and actually, and I'm I'm saying this as a point because I think this is not ingrained into our youth sports enough. I've got 16-year-olds coming up to me saying, I'm sorry that I come with so many questions. I'm like, what are you what are you sorry about? Why are you apologizing? Well, I just come to you every day. I said, I love this. I love if it's a genuine question and you're not just trying to get clout with me to get in the lineup, I love this, right? Now, if you're asking me stupid questions, which is like the same question 15 times in a row, by the way, right? Yeah, that's annoying to me. But no, I I want you to do this. Why do you think I'm doing this? So I think that just like again, on that mark, right? You can't do that enough, right? It's just got to come from the right place. Absolutely. You know, you mentioned your you mentioned your accessibility a little while ago, and you know, uh being a police officer by by by profession. And and again, thank you for your service. It's unbelievable that you're doing, you know, this overnight shift, and then you're and then you're balancing a hockey schedule and and and your family and everything else. Can you just talk a little bit about you know what what makes it uh easier for you? Or, you know, what what do you do mentally, you know, to help yourself get through the fact that you've got to feel like at certain points of the season, you're really being stretched thin. Like there's a lot of things going on. And I guess it sounds like you manage that that group pretty well where you probably weren't getting a lot of those, you know, late night texts and calls. You know, but what would what what suggestion would you give to a volunteer coach that you know is putting all this time and effort in? They feel a little stretched out. I mean, the nice thing is, I mean, I guess as a police officer, which I love, I always love you know, teachers, police officers, you know, people that learn outside of hockey how to how to be great at like conflict resolution and managing people and managing high stress environments, right? I mean, it's a real it's a real big difference managing, you know, do I pull the goalie with a minute left in the game, or how do I react to this car accident on uh you know the Northway? Like it's just like like it's all these great things that come up. You know, could you just talk a little bit about how do you manage that as a coach and what advice would you give to volunteer coaches that are that are balancing you know that crazy life family and work and trying to put this kind of the same type of effort into coaching a youth hockey program? Yeah, I'm uh I'm very fortunate because I have a very good support system uh both at home and at work. Um, you know, I gotta give kudos to my wife. Uh it takes a very, very special person to be a police wife, as Christy well knows, uh, but a police wife and a hockey mom. Um, so she handles a lot of the management stuff. Um, and I'm able to just go out there and coach. Um, it is tough at times because I do work nights. Uh but I don't miss anything. The only thing I miss is sleep, which maybe one day won't be healthy, but um, you know, I have uh I've gained a little bit of seniority at work, so I I use a lot of vacation time during the hockey season too. Uh but yes, there have been nights where I get out at 7 a.m. and I gotta be at the rink at 8:30 to coach a hockey game, and then we got another one at 2, and before you know it, it's five or six, and I gotta go back to work at 11. So it's not always easy, but for me, like hockey, that's what's fun to me. That's what I want to do, right? So that is like that is my therapy going to the rink, you know. It takes my mind off of stuff that's going on at work, and you know, I don't have to worry about that because I'm excited to go coach hockey and be with the kids, you know. So that's kind of how I deal with it. Um, my advice for other coaches and parents too, just I would say just remember there'll only be kids once, you know, and it goes by quick. So just take it all in and enjoy every moment and have fun. If you're having fun bringing your kid to the rink, if you're having fun coaching, then you know that's what it's all about. You know, have fun, put in the time and effort, and it'll be worth it. Um, because one day we're gonna look back when they're grown and gone, and we're gonna miss these days, you know. So yeah, you're right, Trey. I mean, we you find a way to make it work, and um and you look back and all those memories that you created, hopefully positive ones, you'll always have that with you, and that that'll be with you for the rest of your life. But what's not fun is the cost of hockey. You have to admit, it's I mean, it's so expensive now. The travel, the tournaments, and as you know, in our area, ice time is contracting. It's really difficult to find, it's getting more expensive, and families are pinched. You know, gas is going up, uh everything is costing more. How do you make it a fun, competitive season, but be mindful of a parent's budget, especially now? Yeah, that's a tough question, and you're right. Uh it is expensive, um, especially you know, at the triple A level. Um we try to make it as affordable as we possibly can for our families. Um, for example, this year um we were working on getting sponsors. Um, so we'll have a handful of sponsors for the team, um, as well as each player has a fundraising goal that they have to meet, right? So each player has to fundraise $500 per kid, and that helped keep the initial cost down. So there's a ton of different ideas, but that's kind of what I went with. Um, so I don't, you know, grandma and grandpa could just give them $500 and that's it. Or they can go out and put in the you know the work and find ways to fund it. But that's how that's how we did it, um, just to try to keep the initial cost down a little bit. Um, but there's you know, it's it's tough because you know, we're we don't play any teams that are even within an hour of us. All of our all of our games are we're going we play in the uh Leecom Harbor Center League in Buffalo. So we're out there, you know, every other weekend, and hotels, it does, it gets expensive. Uh but it's the way I like to look at it is it's an investment, right? Like you, you as a parent, you should expect a return on your investment of all the money you're putting into it, right? And that's why we as coaches have to be prepared to give them the best product. You know, these people, especially at the triple A level, they want to see results, they want to see development, you know. Um, so it does cost a lot of money, but you know, just hope that you get the return on your investment. I love it. You you you work hard to keep it down. And you know, it's funny, I was talking to somebody over the weekend, they said ice time is now a thousand dollars an hour at their rank, which is one of the highest prices I've ever heard. Oh my goodness. And that that conversation was followed by it's killing the sport. Oh right. And and I again, it what I find, Trey, to your point, is I think that people at the ground level, like with youth hockey, we're doing everything we can. It's really and I'm gonna call it out. It's hockey's leadership is gonna have to stand up at some point and say, look, this is enough. All right, yeah. Uh, because it is it and and there are again, we're recording this in uh May of 2026. There are investigative reports coming out right now about private equity, you know, skyrocketing the cost of hockey at places around the country. Um and we have to continue to do it, or or what's going to happen is people will just stop playing, right? Right, and and and that is um unfortunately where we're heading, but I do think that coaches like you, Trey, are the reason the kids keep coming back, all right? Because the ROI, and we say you'll face more adversity in a week of hockey than you will in a year of life from a kids' standpoint, right? Um, you know, we mentioned before you're a police officer. I wanted to ask you this. Um, in that that beat that you're doing, man, it's uh God bless you for the though you said the only thing you're giving up is sleep. Um, what do you take from your profession as a police officer from standards to procedures that you also apply to hockey, right? And that can be anything from how you prepare to how you organize the kids, right? Because you know, police have the highest standards, right? How do you transfer that to the game? Um, yeah, like you said, uh, you know, police officers are held to a very high standard, and I think a hockey coach should be too, right? So I understand that there's a lot that goes into being a hockey coach, right? Um, and then you know, just kind of teaching the kids um, you know, respect and all of that kind of stuff. Um yeah, it's you just you're you're held to a high standard, and um, you know, you should be. Right. No, I completely agree with you. And that's another thing, too, is that I think that the youth teams that struggle, they don't establish those standards early in the season, and then they don't maintain them, too. Like the two things that can kill your team pretty quickly is don't have any standards. And I've seen that, I've seen that happen. It's like you come, oh, it's gonna have fun, go out there and play. Okay, well, you're in for a season, just if you just say that. Um, and then the other thing too is saying all these things, well, hey, listen, we're not gonna sit anybody unless it's a big game, and then the first game of the first period you're sitting people because you're down by five goals. If you sacrifice those standards right away, you're gonna lose the team very quickly. All right, and that's when parents start to commiserate, and it can become a very miserable experience, probably warranted too, right? So I think that you know, I'll say it like this the the person that can kill a team vibe quicker than anyone is actually the coach. The coach is the biggest threat to the team, it's also the biggest asset to the team. So you've got to set the standards and you got to follow those standards, and you got to be pretty relentless with those standards. And I also say this for the kids. Parents think I'm joking when I say this because I've had conversations about it. Kids crave discipline, they do, they will never ask for it though. They're not gonna come up to you and say, Hey, can you discipline me, please? I'm out of control and I need it. They need the structure that's part of the coaching, right? So establish that early and then maintain it throughout the entire season and be relentless. You cannot let that falter at any point because it will falter. I think you know, with my job and my job as a coach, um, communication is a big thing, right? Right. Um, so effective an effective communication style, which is what we need as police officers and as hockey coaches, right? So just the way we communicate with the kids, it it's it's huge. Um, you know, it's almost like they respect you, you know, as long as if you're a good communicator and you're open with them, you're gonna get that respect. Uh and you're also teaching them to communicate with you, which I I say, right, especially now in this day and age, is an essential skill for those kids, right? Like, and I I encourage the kids because a lot of times you'll talk to them, like you gotta put yourself in their position. Like, you're an adult, you're always taller than them at the young age, and and they're eight or they're 10, right? Like, you gotta try and remember what an adult was like when you were 10, right? This is the authority, right? And I always tell the kids, you you can speak too, you can tell me what you're thinking. I actually want to know what you're thinking. Like, encourage them to talk, all right? Because remember, a lot of these kids, uh, and parents, it's no one's fault. Like just growing up in a screen age, right? We call them screen agers for a reason. We joke about that, right? They're they're not getting some of these basic communication skills that we got when we were growing up at the water hose outside. Okay, so hot is a great opportunity for them to learn to speak. I go back to coachability earlier in the episode. We talk about podcasting, great questions demand great answers, right? Tell your kids, ask a coach a great question, all right? Or ask a question. I should say that communicate, Trey. You made a great point there, you know. Trey, I'm gonna ask you about this too. Um, we talk about tryouts a lot on this show and evaluations, all right. And you know, I think Mike and I have talked to Adnanziam about our philosophies and frustrations with that. Let me ask you this. How do you approach tryouts? You said you you coach in a pretty high-level uh hockey at a young age. You know, what advice do you give families going into tryouts? And then how do you do it, right? Like is the team 80% of the team picked? Are you looking for those bubble players? Are you going in with a clean slate? How do you approach tryouts? Um, so I would as a parent, right, I would tell them, do your research, right? Before before you show up to tryouts. Um, you know, don't are are you are you coming just for some cheap ice time, or do you really want to be a part of this team? You know? Um, and then in terms of what I'm looking for at tryouts, right? Um I want to like players who are engaged and and want to pay attention, um, who aren't messing around in line, you know, that's uh that's a big part of it too. Um, but yeah, as a parent, you should do your research um before. Um yeah, I mean there's a there's a lot that goes into it, but uh, you know, we're we're not just necessarily like, yeah, sure the high skilled kid, yeah. Um that's great, but is he is he paying attention to anything I'm saying, you know? Um stuff like that. I hope that answers the question. I I think vite I I think it I think it goes both ways too, right? Sometimes we pick a high-level kid that doesn't have a great attention span at that age, thinking, well, I'm gonna change that kid. Like I'm the one that's gonna make this work. And then all of a sudden you're like, I can't make it work, I can't make it work. And it's because just the well, the player is eight. I mean, you know, so I think a lot of times, a lot of times we try to project, you know, these these pro qualities and this the maturity of a player at early ages for tryouts, which really, you know, is as is to Trey's point, that's really really need both people have to do their research. I think us as coaches and organizers need to lay out like that, listen, we understand that your son's seven or eight years old. We are looking for players that have a a higher maturity level that right now can handle you know complex thoughts and drills. Even if they're the best player on the ice, the player won't fit our system. And vice versa, I think a parent needs to see their kid and go, oh yeah, he he is the best player. Every clearly sees he's the best player on the ice, but he's not ready to embrace this type of rigidness and this type of you know structure. And that's fine too. That's why people put their that's why people put their that's why people put their kids in different schools. I mean, you know, sometimes you just say, listen, this is just not gonna work for my child, so don't try to, you know, fit a round peg in a square hole at that age, because I think it then what it does is frustrates both sides, right? But I think, you know, obviously, Trey, people are going now, you know, you had success, all of a sudden tryouts come around. That success oftentimes breeds more success, right? Now, all of a sudden, the players that came to you that bought in early say, hey, I I came here and I'm ready, I learned a lot this year, and our success led to other players coming in here now. How do you deal with that transition? Like, how are you working and and articulating, communicating the fact that, yeah, well, we brought these players. I develop like like that's the funny thing, right? We developed you to be better, but now that we're better, we need to bring better players in that we didn't develop. And it's a hard thing, it's a hard thing to have a conversation with a family about, no? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, and some of these kids, especially at eight years old, they've never really experienced the structure that is like this higher level of hockey, right? Some of them, you know, they came from other might programs where there's 75 kids on the ice at a time, and are they really getting you know the one-on-one coaching when you have 80 other mite players out there? Well, now they come to my team and it's just us. We get a full sheet of ice with 15 kids, and it's it's definitely advanced, right? So, especially at eight, these a lot of most all of them have never experienced a structure. Uh, but it is it's fun to see how quick they do catch on, you know. So, Trey, I'm gonna we're gonna make a micro clip here. We have been back and forth on this show for years about the nature of might triple A hockey, should should it exist, right? So there's a lot of thoughts on that about the stature of it, the skill level of it. I wanted to get your take, because you coach it, all right, of why Mike Triple A is important. This is the hard-hitting journalism we've got to be doing on the show. Yeah. Um so that's I mean, it's it's a debate, right? Um what what I'm seeing is all of the other triple A organizations everywhere in the country, right? They most all of them have a Might Major full ice team, right? Um are we getting into the half-ways versus full ice conversation? You can, yeah. Um I see the value in both. Um, I I'm not against half-lice hockey at all, and I think what USA hockey has done has been amazing. I mean, they have studies on it, why it works, you know. Um, but I do think that at a certain point it's okay to have an eight-year-old playing full ice. Um now, a big argument with that is the puck touches, right? They get more puck touches in a half ice game. Well, my players are getting a lot of puck touches in my practice, and we skate three times a week. So it's uh yeah, I mean we're just basically what I I'm seeing with all these other triple A programs is all of their players that enter their first year of squirts have played full ice hockey, and the ones who haven't seemed to be a step behind, right? So it's sound it sounds like the college hockey uh debate right now. So it's it's just you know, because you know, because we're because again, I and again, I'll go on the record to say I'm completely against all of that, right? But I get it just we've been on this for I I don't want to be a hypocrite and and say that I I believe that eight-year-olds should be playing full ice hockey. And it's not even the full ice hockey part of it, I don't think, and I'd love to hear your perspective on it. But if you I could tell you, because I know your area, right? We know the programs, if you were able to go out and find 30 kids in that in that group, you said, hey, I'm gonna have a try with 30 kids, and I'm gonna I'm gonna make it so there's no fundraising. We don't ever have to travel, never have to get on a plane, never have to go anywhere, never have to get a hotel room. I'll take those 30 kids and we'll play each other in-house for the next two years. I can almost guarantee you'll have the best 10-year-olds in the in in in in in anywhere. It just it's just a that's just the fact, right? So so I think it's just it's our it's the job of USA hockey and the job of the of of the people that run these programs to either accept or or fall into the trap that, well, everybody else is doing it, so we need to do it. Um, you know, because like to your point, Trey, right? That if you look at the kids that play full ice are more advanced when they get to squirts, well then, you know, if everybody just played half ice or or played in a in a in a in a in a you know, I guess a level playing field, they all advance, they they don't the the the level would advance at this the same rate. It's just I think though when we we go back to the beginning, right? We talk about needing fundraising and it costs as much and it's $1,000 for ice, and but then yet we keep doing these other things that make the cost more and more and more. Instead of having the great players and great coaches, like I would love you to be on the ice with 48-year-olds, not six, right? So I think I I think it's just the way we have to look at it. And I think all these different regions have their own, um, especially in our area, right, Trey? I mean, we're you're you're there's so much competition that if you're not trying to do something that draws kids out for the competition, you die. I mean, you all of a sudden you don't have a program. So I get that part. But on the other side of it is we have to really look at the reality that if we want to have highly competitive kids at uh with with a complete 100% uh rate of availability to play, then we got to look at the structure and the model. It's broken for sure. Uh but I but I but I do understand on the AAA side why teams do it and why they feel they have to do it. I just want to go on the record and say it just doesn't have to happen that way. And frankly, it it if you really wanted to make more money and produce more kids and produce a better product, then you would go with the latter. But again, this is just this is why people have to go through these, you know, USA hockey's gone through this for 25 years. And I think now you're seeing it the same debate they're having with college hockey. Oh my God, if you don't let the kids, how are they going to be ready to play as college hockey players if they don't get three years of juniors? Well, if nobody gets three years of juniors, then they're all coming in at the same, they're all coming in at the same level. Like so, so the the the structure is the same. I just think it's it's amazing what you do with your kids. It sounds like you're getting you're you're if I correct me if I'm wrong, you're getting your the cross-ice, half-ice value in the way you structure your training more than the way the games work. Yeah. Absolutely. Which is which is again, that's I don't think a lot of people are doing that, right? I don't think a lot of teams are saying, hey, because I watch full ice bike teams and they're doing you know full ice breakouts, right? Which which then then it defeats the purpose. But if you're saying your kids are not in lines, they're going, they're they're you know, it's it's tough put touch puck uh puck touches, but you're getting those three days. That's amazing, too. Three days a week of hockey, uh, you know, and training is great. I mean, those are the kind of things you need to look for in a program, yeah, for sure. Um it's to me, you know, the games are fun, right? But the development, most of the development's gonna happen in practice, right? Um that just again going back to being prepared as a coach, like Trey. I'll I'll say this to you. Your your character has been attested to by Christy for multiple years. Like, we love having John. And this is where I'm at with triple A and Mike. I'm I'm not as hell-bent against it as you are. I I I just have a lot of gray area with it. So, Trey, I think coaches like you are great in the sport, right? Because you're doing it for the right reasons. I think where where might triple A, I understand it, is sometimes you have third year mites that have been playing half ice for two years and they're already they're ready to move up, right? Sometimes it's a sibling thing. Um, you do have great coaching at that level, and it's a high level game, right? So those are some benefits. Where triple A loses me at the mite level is the FOMO it creates in certain parents. If I don't make this team, I we're not going anywhere, which is beyond not true. Um, also, the unrealistic expectations of long term, and Trey, this has nothing to do with you, but of oh, if my kid made this team, that means something. That means something's going to happen. And the truth is, is that you know, look, talent at eight years old is a fantastic asset. It's a long journey, right? And it's not limited to eight U AAA hockey. I mean, I was just thinking the other day, I have a friend whose kid has gone through the whole all of youth hockey um and graduated. And I remember I was at this kid's first like year, and his dad telling me this before I had kids, like, man, he's the worst skater out there. This is not gonna work out. And that kid ended up becoming the captain of his high school team, right? It it's just you just don't know what's going to happen. So I go back and forth on on uh my triple A. And you know, here's the other thing too. I think there's also this belief of like, well, there's no middle ground, right? It's like it's that or something else. You know, there are things happening around the globe, uh, like the the introduction of mini rinks, right? Which is basically a half-size ice rink, right? It's not cross-ice. I'm starting to see those pop up in Europe and South America, and these, especially in major cities, right? These rinks are fantastic because you can put young kids on these rinks, play quote unquote full ice, but it's half the size of a normal rink. So now they're getting the full ice experience with the rules. It's brilliant for offsides, obviously, at that young age. I mean, and and and they're able to kind of compete in the game. There are things happening, but in my opinion, they're not happening fast enough. But Trey, I want you to make sure you understand that our our debate here about AAA hockey is not a debate about you, it's just about the nature of it in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's why I mean for me personally, like that's why I I love the fact what you mentioned about how you work with the kids and how you're getting the tough puck touches, how you're prepared for practice. I think all of that stuff is so much different than you know, just saying, well, we're just gonna run a bunch of full ice games with kids that aren't prepared to play at that level or not even close. And I think that's what's happening around the globe, is that we keep trying to, you know, put players that aren't ready into places that they're not ready to play for. And then the other players is that there is a pool of players out there that look like they're ready. Like, oh, that looks, I mean, I I work with some pretty good nine-year-olds uh right now. And uh, you know, these kids are, you know, quote unquote, the best players uh in the world, right? So, but when I look at them, I'm like, yeah, they are unbelievable. They can do things that like most 18-year-olds cannot do. But I think what happens with that is it's it's now you got to really be able to project them out for the next you know 15 years. And what are they gonna be able to do with that? And I think that's where the debate really happens the most, but certainly not um, you know, discounting what you do as a coach and what you're doing with your program. It's more just a philosophical discussion around, you know, what's best for the masses and then really what's best for business sometimes. I was gonna say, so you're the expert. That's why we had you on. We we trust, we trust your opinion on it. Yeah, it's a good, healthy discussion, right? And uh it's it's it's going on all over the country. So I'm I'm glad we have we're having this discussion. What I noticed too about your kids, because I was lucky enough to go to a tournament where your kids were part of it. I I kicked them out in this crowd of crazy kids in this lobby. They were the nicest bunching kids, polite, disciplined, yeah, and just big smiles on their faces. So I'm thinking you're you're doing something special with these kids. It's it's about the culture that you're also building beyond the hockey skills. So what are the kinds of things that you do during the season where you help get the kids character built as well as their hockey skills? Yeah, um, I wish I could take all the credit, you know. Um I just I got so lucky with with such a great group of kids last year, and I'm sure, you know, I'm just meeting my my new team this year, but I don't know, I just get out there and I have fun with them, you know. Um I don't know, it it's hard to explain. Um, but you know, I joke with them, I hop in the drills with them, you know, anything that I'm making them do, I make sure I can do, you know. Um it's just yeah, it's just I just try to keep a good environment. Um the kids know, you know, kind of what I expect. Um, you know, I don't know. It seems very disciplined too. I mean, do you Yeah, but you know, it's I'm I explained to them, you know, uh we represent um you know the galaxy. We you know, wherever we are, right? So if if we're in if we're in our rink, like or somebody else's rink, like there's a logo on your shirt, like whether it be gnats or galaxy, like we have to be respectful, right? Uh we can't be running around the rink like animals, you know. So I I do I do lay out, you know, the ground rules at the beginning of the season. You know, we're gonna be respectful both in our facility and other facilities. We're gonna clean up after ourselves when we leave a locker room. Um, so I just I just lay out what my expectations are, and there's some rules there. Um, and yet, you know, you say that they seem disciplined. Um, I'm not the guy who's yelling in their face. That's just not how how I operate, right? Um I don't know. I just try to have fun with them. Like they're they're my friends too, you know. Not only my uh, you know, my players, and I have to be their coach, but we can we can we can be buddies, you know. Um, so yeah, I just try to maintain a you know a good culture, a good environment, and um build relationships with them and you know, they know that even them if if they have a bad day at school, you know, they can call me and I'll sit there and talk with them for as long as they need, you know. And I also tell the parents too, like, hey, if there's something going on at home, you know, we kind of want to know about that, right? So we can put you know a little bit of extra time or you know, whatever it takes. Um, but yeah, just try to try to maintain that good culture and starts with laying out your expectations on day one. Yeah, Trey, I think I think you're a very humble person with your leadership. I can tell just from your your the way you speak and the way you handle yourself that you really are there for these kids. And I think that that is the thing that uh coaching is all about at the end of the day. We've said this before, we really as coaches care about your kids. I wish you could be in our position for a day to understand how much we do think about your kids, and we all of them know, not just your kid, all of the kids, and how much time we do, as you said, take to prepare practice. I mean, I I used to get teased um when I started doing youth hockey, they go, Oh wow, you're going all in, huh? You're doing video, huh? You're doing all these extra things. I'm like, well, yeah, that's how I do it, right? And and the kids love it. What are you talking? What are you talking about? Right? Why why do you have a problem that we're taking the time to do this? I I don't have a different methodology for my preparation for kids over you know high-level players. Now, attitude, expectations, you know, what I'm teaching changes, obviously, right? But I'm gonna prepare for these, they're getting the best I have. I don't know any other way, right? And I think that that that's the difference, right? Between between like really being a coach and and uh yeah, I don't want to say volunteer, I'm saying but really coaching, right? Because most of us are volunteers. Well, I think that's the point. That whether you're volunteering or getting paid, you're coaching the same way. And I think, you know, I work with I work with a 16U coach, and he'll he'll he always you know, he'll tell his players and and right at the beginning, like, listen, I'm gonna give you my best. Like, I'm gonna give you what I do, or I say I'm not gonna take the job. Like, I wouldn't be here if I was just doing it. And and again, uh he gets paid, but he's basically a volunteer. Like I think everybody knows, right? He's getting paid, but I mean, let's be honest, he's volunteering his time. Might be covering that, you know. So I think it's just one of those things where you know you're gonna put the effort in. And I think, Trey, I think you're getting you're getting what you're getting out of your players, and certainly the parents that have that have bought into you, uh, that you're getting that because of what you do, you know, being prepared and coming in and showing them that you do care. And we talk about this all the time. Like kids do not care how much you know as a hockey coach, they only care how you know how much you care. That's all they care about. Do you like me? Do you want me to succeed? Do you want to help me get better? That's what I care about. And I think this is uh, you know, that's that's really all of us as volunteers need to understand that you know, put your effort in, put the time in, and you're gonna get you're gonna get the results you want. You know, yeah. I I'll say this too, Mike, because we're talking youth hockey. That mindset doesn't exactly go away at the high level either. Now, obviously, when you get to the high in the pro levels, there's an expectation from the athletes of give me your absolute best, right? And I I don't I don't know if they need to know that you care, but it helps that they know they know that you care. But I think once you get to that level, everybody everybody is in the same boat with that. So go ahead, Trey. Yeah, I will say this. I I genuinely do care. Yeah, you know, um, and I I love I love the kids, you know. Yeah, um, so I do care, and that's why I put in the time and the effort, but that's what it's that's fun for me. That's that's what I like to do. I'm right, you know, it's not I don't look at it as a job, you know. This is like fun, this is what I like to do, you know. Fulfillment. I do genuinely care, you know, and you know, whether you're a volunteer or a paid coach or or whatever, um, I know for a fact that in our organization, all of our coaches are held to a very high standard by the administration, right? So if we're not putting in the time and the effort, then we're probably not gonna be invited back next year, whether we're a volunteer or not, you know. So well, yeah, and I'll say this too, Trey, and Mike, you can attest to this, Christy. You'll understand it as well. You gotta work really hard for me to not care about your kid. Yeah, you've got to really push me to my limits for me not to care, right? Like, I might not care about you as a parent, like definitely it's it's a whole different, like that's another level. Like, like I could be like, Oh, please don't have this person show up, but the kid never, I don't know. You it it I I firmly believe that men 98% of coaches don't look at the kid the same way they look at a parent. Oh, 100% true. And and that's good. I mean, that because it's not, it's always like, oh, like just get let please just drop the kid off and let me let me uh you know have him come work with the team. Well, I I've been yelled at by parents, and then my next thought is about their kid. Like, like, oh man, like you know, my thought goes to the kid. I'm not even worried about being yelled at. I'm like, oh no, but uh yeah, parents, I I think Trey, that's a great note to end on, too. Is we really can't reiterate that enough. I I have not met hardly any coaches who don't care, like we're not doing this because we don't care, right? I have met coaches with ego, I have met inexperienced coaches, I've met experienced coaches, but they all care at the end of the day, really, even with those things, they care. So, um, you know, if you take anything away from this episode, one is we care about your kids, two is there's a massive debate going on about triple-A hockey, and you've heard the hard-hitting journalism here on our kids. And three, Trey Berg is a great coach. Those are the three things you can take away from the episode today. Thank you, Mike and Christy. Any final thoughts before I close this out? No, it's been always great, Trey. You know, you're in the trenches, and a lot of parents listening can relate to what you're saying, and coaches do. So you gave them a lot of great takeaways to uh dive into the next season with uh some some good planning ahead. So thank you for that. I guess one one final thought on the you know the parent topic. Um parents, don't ruin it for your kids, you know. Um it's uh just let your kid go out there and have fun and be coached, and uh, you know, because I will say this, especially when you get into the higher levels of hockey, um parent cuts are real, um, you know, and if you want to ruin it for your kid with your behavior or some of the things you're doing, um, you know, that's unfortunate, but it's it's real. So it's real. I've had to do it myself. Yeah, with some pretty talented players. You know, Trey, I'll end by saying this. We've had NHL GMs on this show, we've had NHL players on this show, had NHL parents on this show, college, all of it. We've had it, we've had a lot of guests, but when it comes down to it, you're the one in the trenches with every listener on this show and probably have more in common with this audience uh than those fantastic guests they all were. But this has also been a fantastic episode. So thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. All right, well, parents, you heard his message. Let's make sure we apply that. That's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. If you have any questions, thoughts, episode titles, things you want us to discuss, email us at team at our kidsplayhockey.com. Or if email's not on your agenda because it's getting older every day, you can text us. There's a link accompanying the episode in the description. Tap it, text us, we can text you back, you can leave a voice message, you can play it on the air if you want. You can get involved in the show. Or just you know, send us a text so we can read it. We'll get back to that on our kids play hockey. Everybody, have a wonderful time. Enjoy your hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode. Take care. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at When Hockey Stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.