Zechariah Thomas on Building Swift Hockey and Making the Game More Affordable

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hello, hockey friends and families around the world, and welcome back to another edition, an action-packed edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. I'm Lee Elias, joined by Mike Benelli. Christy Cashano Burns is literally on assignment tonight. We got a message before the episode that there is some hard-hitting news in Syracuse. I am not joking. She's on the air right now. We're on the air right now. And today's guest is someone who has built this game from a high-level competitive hockey in Ontario through junior hockey all the way to representing Team Jamaica internationally. Again, amazing story here. But what makes his story powerful isn't just where he played, it's how hockey shaped him. The lessons, the resilience, the identity, and the perspective. Zechariah Thomas has taken everything hockey gave him and turned it into impact, including founding Swift Hockey, a stick brand born from his playing experience and his desire to innovate within the game he loves. Many of us have heard of that brand. We are lucky to have him here. And today we're going to be talking about development, belonging, accessibility, and what it truly means to be built by hockey and how your kids can build a life in this game that goes far beyond goals, assists, or scholarships. Zach, welcome to Our Kids Play Hockey. Thank you. And glad to be here. Glad to be here. We are glad to have you here, buddy. Let's start with the origin story. I know the audience always loves that. You grew up in Oshawa playing uh pretty high-level hockey. What did the hockey dream look like for you at a young age? Because I know most kids, when they're younger, are not thinking, I'm gonna build the premier stick company uh at this age later after, you know, what was the dream like when you were young?

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Man, you know, as any other kid, like the dream was go to the NHL. Like that was obviously the dream. Um, and you know what happened in my story? Like, I moved, I moved 10 minutes down the block, and I was completely culture shocked by hockey. Like, I moved from a little city called Whipy to Oshawa, and moving that 10 minutes down the block, I was culture shocked by like the Oshawa Generals, and I really wanted one of those jackets. Like, that was like that was my goal. Like, I wanted one of those Oshawa triple A jackets, and I was I was willing to do whatever I possibly could at that time to get that jacket, and that was the most important to me when I first started playing hockey at I guess the age of 10 years old.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

You know what's amazing, and I'm actually glad you bring up the jacket because I think as adults, we kind of forget about some of the things that made our eyes really big when we were kids. Uh, I remember playing for an elite organization and like wanting the playbook, right? This is back, by the way, kids before we all had phones. So we actually got handed a playbook with pages in it. But like that was such a rite of passage. And then obviously the the team swag and the jacket meant something even back then. Doesn't it's not the only thing that matters, right? And you know that too. But those little childhood things, um, sometimes I think we forget about that as adults, what gets us excited, right? And then you you started playing, obviously, right? I mean, uh, was the talent immediate? Did you find that later? What was that process process like? Because we all had uh you know adversity along the way when we were growing up.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Yeah, you know what that that process, like I started at 10 years old. I think that was enough adversity to start with to be transparent. Like I didn't realize starting at 10 in hockey is like I'm so late to the game. Right. Um, and at that time my parents didn't have a hockey background, we didn't know anything about the sport, and they put me in figure skating lessons right away. Like that was kind of my start into hockey, where like I was learning everything from figure skating lessons. And that was my that was kind of that's how I started. Like that's how I got into the introduction to the game, and I was in a figure skating class with all girls. Um, so that's that was kind of the path for me, and then ended up playing a little bit of house league and kept kind of adapting and kind of going up through the levels to making it to major junior at the end of my career.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Well, it it's funny, right? And you mentioned that I think a lot of our listeners will definitely relate to this that it if in full circle, right? When you watch the development of players at the highest level, they're all working with skaters that have figure skating bass and backgrounds, right? Because I mean, I I think very quickly, and and obviously this helped you, uh, was learning that that's the game, skating, right? If you can't skate, you can't play. And it's even more so today than it even was, even as early as 10 years ago. I mean, just that so that base. So I think so. I wouldn't poo-poo the fact that you've that you were in the figure skating world, uh, because I think it's matt, I think it really is so important for players and and parents to understand how important it is to learn how to skate properly instead of saying, oh, I got all the gear and that's gonna protect my kid when he falls, but he can't skate. You know, so I think it's it's it is a it is a uh it's interesting that you, you know, that's the path you took. Um, but I and I think it's cool that uh, you know, more of us as hockey coaches really want that pure base to start. Yeah, it exactly.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

And you know, even even going up through the game, like every every single coach, every single person like I've ran into, they always said I was such a good skater. And I I took that experience when I was figure skating like for granted. Like I was like I was embarrassed to go, and it ended up paying off so well later in my career. But yeah, it was definitely a really cool experience.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Well, and I'll bring up too, Zach. You know, one of the things we talk about on this show all the time is there is no one path to quote unquote success in this game. Uh, you started at 10, I started at 12. And the thing is, is that similar story. Again, the audience has heard my story, but it was the skating what separated. In fact, uh, I think part of that story I don't tell enough is that my neighbor, who was a hockey coach, saw me skating outside just on rollerblades and was said, you have to get that kid on the ice because coaches know that that is by far the most fundamental important skill. And I think sometimes people group, oh, just skating, shooting, puck handling into this kind of the bucket. And don't get me wrong, all those skills are important, but skating is its own bucket. You have to have the ability to do that. So I think the fact that you did figure skating, and again, I understand why you felt embarrassed at the time. I almost encourage parents listening to find any other ability within skating that they can help with their kids without going overboard, obviously, on training, because it is the great separator at the end of the day. You can have the greatest shot at 10U if you don't have the skating down, it's not gonna matter, right? And I think that's just really important.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah, there's no, there's no there's no happy Gilmores at the high level hockey.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Not anymore.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Yeah, not even a little bit, and like e even to your point there, like I was like, I used to rollerblade 24-7, right? Like that was kind of my whole life where like I always kept working on even with no stick or no puck, I was rollerblading all day, every day. And I realized as soon as I can I kept getting older and how important that skating aspect was, and I kept putting so much of my focus into that as as much as I could with no ice time.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

So yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna grip, we're gonna have a whole other episode on that at some point, right? Is that the myth of of rollerblading and inline skating, yeah, how it hurts hockey players and hurts your stride. I think I fell into that category for a long time. Uh after you know, I first started doing some real like deep dive into power skating and proper edge control and things like that. That you know, you kind of say, oh, it's really gonna screw up your stride and it's gonna mess up your you know your ability to use your edges, and it's just not true. It's it's just it's so you know, it's it's and I think the the the growth of hockey in the quote unquote in the back in the day, the non-traditional markets has really proven a lot of uh people wrong that way, right? That it's that that it's skating is skating, and and and and the stride is your stride, and and gaining strength is gaining it's actually probably a better way to gain strength than your legs uh at the end of the day. So it's it's funny how you know, I think for a lot of traditionalists, like the inline skating piece of hockey was never really looked at as a as a positive, and I think that's definitely changed.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Well, and I'll take it even a step further, Mike, that it it's hypocritical when people say it hurts your stride when we're also telling everybody, hey, play another sport, right? Because technically it is another it is technically a different sport. I know it's very similar, but it's like, look, anything to build your legs is building your legs. And yes, you the other thing I always say, Zach, is like, what's the alternative, right? Like, so if you don't have access to ice 24-7, okay, that's one thing, right? No, most people do not have access to ice 24-7. Then you can get into kind of like off-ice, cross-training, plylometrics, uh, mobility, which is also really good. But the truth is this is that inline skating or in even roller hockey uh simulates the game from a skating standpoint better than anything else off the ice that I know of, because merely you got to make decisions out there and make the movements out there. So, again, not to turn this into a roller hockey discussion, but like I do we just want to emphasize, like like like Mike said, like you said, like yeah, you were skating everywhere. I did the same thing and it paid off. So, yeah, again, yeah, I I think we should push anybody who says inline skating is a horrible thing for you out of the way.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Um, yeah, there's there's there's no alternative, like ice prices are two three hundred dollars an hour. Like, I can't just rent that for myself. Yeah, if you're like you're in a good area, yeah. So yeah, no, the rollerblading is the best alternative.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah, and and hey kids, get outside. That's the other part. So let me ask you this. You talked about major junior. You've been around high-level and pro environments a lot. Uh, one of the things we like to discuss on the show for everyone listening is like the difference makers at that level. Everyone is talented at that level, everyone can skate, everyone can play. What did you find was the separator at that level? Uh, it could be mental, it can be physical, it can be both. What's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Yeah, it was it was the mental aspect for sure. Like, I think it was the mental, and you know, back to the skating, like that was able, that's why I was able to play at some of these levels was just because of skating. Um, but the mental aspect on trying to get into certain levels and dealing with people in my ear 24-7, telling me I couldn't do it, telling me I pe I wasn't able to do it. That was that was always my biggest thing, even growing up and hearing a lot of the comments I heard being a being a black hockey player. Um it always gave me really tough skin, where that was able to be like my number one superpower in a sense, going through hockey.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah, you know, it it's interesting when we talk about that level. One of the myths that it's like a hard truth for younger players is that it doesn't get more encouraging the farther you go from an out. I think I think kids think, well, the farther I get, the more encouraged. No, it gets it gets harder and harder and harder. And your ability to build up that thick skin, like you said, um, is essential because like if you think the chirps are tough at 12 you kids, you know, they get better. They get they get more professional with chirping as you get older, too. And I think that it, you know, like you said, one of one of the coolest uh representations of this that I heard was a player said that belief is a huge part of it too. Of the the players that tend to get to the next level believe they're going to play at that level. It's not a hope, right? And again, we're gonna get into your journey and how you have taken belief to a whole nother level with your brand. But you said it. Look, you grew up a black hockey player, right? There's a lot of things that are happening because of that. How did you break through those walls mentally to create the belief in yourself that you needed to have?

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Yeah, you know what? It's it's probably my biggest aspect to date. And this is anybody within my company, anybody that knows me, I'm extremely delusional. And like that's like that's honestly been the aspect that's helped me continue to be like where we're at and continue to help me grow, is that I'm extremely delusional, and like I always I hate losing. Like, that's those are my two biggest things, and that's kind of that hockey passion coming out of me as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

So yeah, Zach, I'll tell you what, and then this is something you and I share. Uh, I'm the same way, and and I think the people in my building know that as well. And you know what I've come to say, instead of saying I'm delusional, I say I have an uncommon belief belief that I can succeed at whatever I want. That's kind of what I say. You know what I mean? Is is just like, no, what if I put my why can't we do this? Why can't this happen? Um, but I love that we're applying that to hockey because I think most high-level hockey players think that way, right? Because you have to think that the alternative is looking at the odds. And if you look at the odds, you're gonna want to go do anything else, right? But it's the people that can look at those odds and say, but why not? Why can't I do this? And again, this is gonna transition into your brand in a minute, but especially for the kids listening, you talked about that. Can you also talk about why that's so important to have that quote unquote delusional or uncommon mindset and how that can spur you to amazing things beyond the game? Because I think one of the big awakenings for me was you know, in my 20s, the realization of hey, I can apply this mindset to anything, it doesn't just have to be hockey, right? Yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Yeah, yeah, you know, I like going in a little bit into my story, like I was that delusional. I call it is like it made me be able to do things much earlier than most people, right? Like, I didn't, I my brain couldn't comprehend why I couldn't start a company at 15 years old, like why I wasn't able to do this, or why I couldn't make it to the next level, even though I technically started late in hockey, and I just kept pushing and kept wanting the best out of myself and to be the best version of myself ultimately. But I think I think being delusional is like it's so important in everything, especially within hockey. But it's it's so important within life.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Well, I think I think the other another word we hear too a lot is is when you get to those, you know, those areas where you have to make decisions that that normal people don't make is desperate, right? That you you have this deck like you you know, like I I have to do this. Like, like you know, Lee alluded to a little earlier, you know, in the context of players, like when that when that funnel gets so small at the top, uh like your desperation to do what other players aren't going to do, and the things that you're and the and the decisions you're gonna make that other people might not take, whether it's business or hockey, you know, that risk, right? The ability to say, I'm going to take a risk. I'm so desperate to be successful that I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw it right out there. And and those are the players we see succeed, and and frankly, the business people that we see succeed, right? I think it's where um it's a great, I mean, it's really at the ultimate, at the ultimately, that's why we love our children playing sport, is that you know, we we create these uh these uh environments uh where we hope they transcend. You've proven that, Lee's proven that, like you've transcended the environment of what sport is supposed to do for you, and you've taken that to that next level of of being in the sport, being successful, you know, in a brand in the sport.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Exactly, exactly. And I think I think that that's everything, honestly. Like that's kind of been been the mindset and the mindset you have to have to continue to move forward in life, is the best way to put it.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah, you know, I'm gonna pull the throat on this one more and then and then we'll move on because this is super engaging. You know, Zach, another thing you made me think about was when we talk about the mentality. I love that you said, like at 15, why can't I start a business? Right. And I I've always said on the show, great questions demand great answers. That's actually a great question. Why can't you? You're not afraid to dream. You were not afraid to dream. And I often wonder how many kids and adults for that matter, all right. And this is a youth hockey show, but you we limit ourselves by not asking those types of questions. In fact, it's usually the opposite of, oh, I could never start a company at 15. You're limited by what you say, right? So again, look, this is a little bit of a dance as a parent, all right. You got to keep your kids, I don't want to say realistic, but you got to keep them down to earth a bit. You know, if a kid says, hey, I'm gonna be the first astronaut at 16, okay, look, look, hey, that's a great, that's a great thing to be thinking about, right? But what are the steps you can do to do that? You want to be encouraging of those dreams, and it's okay to dream. All right. Um, we always say dreams are important. You have to understand that you have to do the work to accomplish it. Saying it and doing it are two different things. But I get the impression, Zek, from talking to you, that while you had that dream, you you probably were not overly concerned about what your peers and other people thought of you at that time. Because I think that's a huge hindering aspect of I can't do this because I'll be judged by whoever, my teammates, my parents, my friends, right? And if you can move that mindset aside and dare to be great, dare to dream, kids, parents, adults, you don't know what you can accomplish. I mean, you'd be amazed what you can accomplish. That's really how I should say that. Zach, I mean, is that is that true about like especially like when you were younger, of there was no inhibiting thought that stopped you.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Not once, not once at all. Right. And I think I think there's there's a good aspect, like a little bit talking about the business side is when when I first started, we had so many supporters. Like we had all my friends supporting, everyone supporting. And there was a moment as we keep growing and we keep getting bigger as a company where we lost all the supporters. And it's kind of to continue to like push past that, keep going past that, even though the same people that rooted for you in the beginning no longer are rooting for you, right? And that's kind of been that whole mindset for me, where it's like to keep pushing, keep innovating past some of these scenarios as best as possible.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah, absolutely. It's funny how the game prepares you for that. We we say a lot that you'll face more adversity in a weekend of hockey than you will in a month of life, right? And uh, for those of you wondering, business is no different. Business will throw you surprise hooks and and different things that'll happen. You'll think you're winning, and then the other team will score. Uh but you know what what's amazing about, and I'm gonna bring it to this level too, is with the business side of things, how much of the game uh you and I probably apply to our day-to-day in business. And you have to do that, right? Because I can think about again with with my company's history. There there were time periods where, man, I think we're going under. There were time periods where uh, you know, like COVID happened and it we were one of the businesses that had to be there for people. I mean, it's just amazing the journey. Uh, but just like the game, the journey is really the key, right? And you've had quite the journey so far. Um, I'll turn that into a question for you, Zach, because that was more of a declarative statement that I just made. But um, getting into Swift and the brand, you know, there's a moment for all of us when we play where you know we're chasing the hockey dream, and then something happens where we start maybe looking a different direction, right? I wonder if you could dive into the the the transition from player to business person um and how that came about. Like what were the thoughts that started to happen? When did you realize, you know, I think I'm gonna take the step towards towards swift hockey instead of playing? Was that easy? Was that hard? You know, go through that that uh process.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

Yeah, so I was I ended up playing major junior. Um, and during my major junior time, my career was kind of short-lifted, where back then it was either two options as NCAA or CHL. So I ended up playing a short stint in the major junior world. And COVID, it was like in around when COVID was starting, like the rumors were going around and we were up and down within the bubble. So I didn't end up getting a good playing style, and COVID really hit at that point, right? And at that time, I had I had no schedule, I had no calendar, I had, I had nothing to do. And I turned to my other biggest passion because a little bit of my story, like I was kind of that kid selling bracelets and hats at recess, like as a kid. And I turned to my other passion, which was business. And I learned everything I possibly could on business. I read probably over a hundred books during that time, like watched over, spent so much time on what I call YouTube university, like trying to learn and learn as much information as I can because ultimately, like I was a as a lot of hockey players, not a good thing to say, but like I was a horrible student. Um, especially like my brain was all on hockey, all on sports 24-7. Like I did so bad in school, and I had to turn right back to school when I came to business. And that was my that was kind of my start into business at that point. Um, and that was I about 17 years old. I started a bunch of businesses, I failed so many businesses as well, and I ended up selling my first business at about 18 years old. And that was kind of my start into business as a whole since then.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah, it's amazing the the journey when you think about the business side of things. And I'll tell you too that that I don't know any business owners that don't have A, a failed business, B, uh, as you said, an uncommon or a delusional dive into learning everything. Because one of the things about business, my friends, is when you think you got it, it is going to change on you. So you have to consistently be doing that. But the other thing that I love about what you said, uh, Zach, and this is for the audience, is how resourceful you are. We talk about it's not about having resources, it's about being resourceful. Will will find a way. Right. And at one of the most hectic times in really all of our lives, you found a way to do something to be impactful. Right. Um, and I think that during COVID, a lot of people had to pivot and find different ways to do things. But your determination as a hockey player and a drive as a hockey player mixed with that business background is I think what that recipe was perfect for you to do something. Again, resourceful. And YouTube University is great for everybody. If you want to learn hockey knowledge, you want to learn business knowledge. Uh, I always say one of the greatest assets of our current time period is you you basically have unlimited information at your fingertips. Yeah. Um, so I think that's really important. Um, so let me ask you this because we're kind of swinging this way. Um, we all grow up stressed over breaking our sticks, right? Uh, not having a backup. Um, it sounds like that's what put you on the search for a better stick. So, my question is instead of just looking for a better stick, what spawned you to say, you know what, I'm gonna create a stick company? I want to say this one disclaimer for the audience. Creating a business is a really fun, delusional quote unquote endeavor. But when you're going into something like creating a stick, you are going up against extreme competition. Okay, and one of the things they tell you when you're starting a business is look at who you're competing against. And one of the red flags is well, if it's if it's always already established a medium, maybe that's not the right business. But as you said, Zach, delusional, right? Uncommon. You go, no, I'm gonna do it anyway. So, how did Swift come into this? You know, why did you choose sticks? Why'd you choose this brand? And man, you are succeeding. How did that happen?

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Yeah, you know what? I moved like when I made that move earlier in my hockey career. I Oshawa is a really it's a different area where they have a new side and they have the old side, and the financial levels are completely different. And at that time, um the GM plant was closing down, which is like the biggest car manufacturer in all of North America at that time was closing down. And a lot of people were losing their jobs, and I kept seeing issues where people were struggling to buy hockey equipment, sticks, and league fees. And like I was noticing this at like 10, 11 years old, where like kids on my team were break their stick, and like you could see like the parents in the crowd like almost crying. Um, and that was kind of my start where I kept seeing that same issue, and I didn't realize what the fix was. Like, I didn't really understand it. Like, I was always that kid where I worked at a sporting store and I used to give my discount out to help some of these individuals with my 60% sporting goods discount to like help them buy sticks, help them buy equipment. And that was kind of my start into the game, um, and into kind of giving back. And during COVID, that was kind of my start into like, you know what, there has to be a better solution for this. Like, there has to be a better solution for this because I saw this throughout my whole all the levels I played at, even going up through major junior, even though it's free, like they just kept breaking, and there wasn't necessarily a solution that was like technically a good cause. And COVID kind of opened my eyes where I started a bunch of businesses, I failed so many, I won on a couple too, but like there was no passion behind it. I didn't care, like I didn't care about selling teddy bears and girls' clothing, like it didn't matter to me. And kind of tying that back into hockey was kind of everything later on, so I could really have a passion and be able to work 24-7. It doesn't feel like anything.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Yeah, I'll tell you that, and again, the audience knows I don't merge the worlds too often, but you know, I'm I I run hockey wrap around, and there is not a day in this business where I wake up that I'm not thankful to be working in the game that you and I and we all love so very much, right? And when the passion is fueling the business, unbelievable things can happen. And I love that you brought up, you know, maybe I wasn't into the the other businesses I was running, but you were learning, right? You were getting that experience, and it all culminates in this. And um, I also want to reiterate, not that not that we're trying to turn this into a complete business uh episode, friends, but I think it's important because I think we're talking about resourcefulness. Um, that question that you asked a minute, you said a minute ago, of there's got to be a better way. That is one of the most important questions that anyone can ask. If you at home ever ask yourself that question, one obviously do the research to see if something better or a solution does exist. It may exist, but if you start researching and you can't find it, you've got something. You've probably got something. Again, look, there's a lot more that goes into it than what I'm saying. All right, but like I said, when we made the hot the blade protected the first time, it didn't, that did not exist, right? Now let's get into Swift because there's a lot of different things here. There's the affordability on the stick, the durability on the stick, the the messaging behind the stick. Tell me why you chose the name Swift first, and then get into what separates Swift from uh from some of the other hockey companies.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Yeah, Swift. You know, I I've I've always thought about so many things to like make up a cool story for this, like how we got the name Swift. It's a big Taylor Swift fan.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

No, I'm just gonna.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Yeah, you know what? It was like it was a scenario where it's like it ended up sticking. Like I put a bunch of friends in a group chat, OHL friends, CHL friends, like across the world, and they all kind of had a competition. And I was paying the winner like a couple hundred bucks, like whoever had the best name. And Swift was the name that like truly resonated with me. It was kind of a thing we wanted to move within the company. We wanted to always move Swift, play Swift, and there wasn't any other Swift hockey, right? And going on, like we're we're obviously going against Taylor Swift when it comes to just searching, and the biggest competition in the world. Yeah, it's not necessarily a bad thing, yeah. But we've been able to um continue to like do what we need to do when it comes to growing growing the brand there at that point.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

But so sorry, was that name chosen from that contest, or did you just have that in your mind the whole time?

SPEAKER_03 28:15

Yeah, it was chosen from the contest. It was chosen from the contest, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yeah, you're reminding me of a story of the Philadelphia Flyers were actually named the same way. They held the contest to name the team. Um, I'm only bringing that up because it's another kind of cool little hockey comparison there. Yeah, yeah, uh, because they could have named everything. And now let's just talk about the brand itself. Like you're diving into a market that's dominated by two or three companies. Um, you know, how did you break in? Because you did break in. You're official supplier of the PWHL, uh, your sticks are growing. I see you on social media all the time. You're your your messaging is fantastic, by the way. You know, I talk about passion. It's very clear that you care about your own brand, which is a good thing, believe it or not. But what separates Swift?

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Yeah, what separates Swift is what we're willing to do to succeed. Like, that's that's honestly the biggest point. We're willing as a company, and myself is we're willing to do whatever it is to succeed and win. Like, we're going up against obviously we're on a hockey podcast, but like we're going up against Nike and Adidas. Like, we're going up against the biggest, biggest, biggest companies in the world that has been dominating the industry for 100 plus years. But our mission and our brand story is a problem that everyone has. It doesn't matter your financial levels. If you're extremely rich, you you still don't want to spay $400 on a stick. It doesn't make sense. And we're trying to be that brand in the middle that makes the best quality product ever at an affordable cost. Like that's what we're trying to do here within Swift, and it resonates with so many different people.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

It truly does, buddy. I'm gonna tell you right now that people are shouting for that, right? Where's the middle ground? Why am I spending 400? And you know, look, parents, uh, we all play a role in making sure our kid understands that the $400 stick is probably not providing your kid with some extra superpower that they think it is, right? There's a lot of kids caught in the we'll call it uh the brand game of well, you know, it's like I said, the Gatorade, the Nike, like, you know, when I say those brands, they evoke something, right? Uh but the truth is this you know, if you're running in Nike shoes or running in non-Nike shoes, if you're fast at running, you're gonna run fast, right? So, Zach, I want to ask you as a hockey person too, just from an equipment standpoint, you know, um what is that variance for kids, right? Like, how should kids be approaching equipment? It's not about just the name on the equipment, right? It it's about what you can do with it. We always say the player makes the stick, the stick doesn't make the player, right? And you can talk about how Swift works in that too, but as a player, you know, how important is getting a brand name piece of equipment just versus getting equipment that feels right?

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Yeah, you know what that that brand name, it means it means absolutely nothing. It means absolutely nothing. There's there's so much better financial things you could do with as a player or your parents could do for you, where it's like all of that money could go into training, it could go into even buying something more important, which is a helmet, like a better helmet, a better, better pair of skates that is going to like actually you're gonna see a lot a lot better of a value out of a lot of the times. But trying to find equipment that's going to matter means a lot, and that's kind of what it comes to us, is where on the hockey stick side, like obviously I'm a little biased, but we build the best hockey sticks in the world. Like, that's our goal, that's our mission, and we're gonna continue to build the best hockey sticks in the world. But that brand aspect, as you said, that's what we've been trying to build so much and so hard, honestly, is like building such a strong peer brand that we're able to do whatever it takes. Like, that's been our biggest thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Yeah, and look, I love that you said that you build the best hockey sticks in the world because going back to what we were talking about earlier in the episode, you've got to think that way. You have got to approach your brand that way, right? Like, like we talk about the delusional with wraparound. We always say we want to put a wraparound on every stick in the world. People like, well, you ever do that? Like, that's not the point. That's the goal, yeah, yeah, right. And you have to think that way. Same thing when you're playing hockey, right? You have to have the big dream, but you gotta put the work in to do the big dream. All right. I'm gonna pivot a little bit here. It's like the interlude of the episode. Uh, for those of you watching, you can see behind me that Puerto Rico jersey. Well, Zach has been involved with Jamaica. You may not know this, my friends, but Puerto Rico and Jamaica hockey is a massive rivalry right now in the international game. Uh, the two have traded extreme blows with each other in terms of wins and losses. Uh, Jamaica, believe it or not, one of the most dominant uh international teams, uh, and Puerto Rico as well, because a lot of our players come from Canada and the United States and the diaspora due to uh you know how how Jamaica and Puerto Rico are situated in we'll just say the global world, right? In terms of uh ancestors. But talk to me a little bit about being involved with Jamaica hockey. And I do want to give this real quick shout-out. If you ever get a chance to see these two teams play against each other, it will blow your mind the talent level out there and how good they are. But talk to me about Jamaica, how you got involved and and what it's like playing for a Caribbean nation, because it is an experience. Yeah, you know, we shouldn't even be talking right now. We should be enemies.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Only off the podcast, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, you know, it's um it was a it was a surreal experience for me to play on Team Jamaica. Um, and as a kid, I was when I just started playing hockey, my parents and I took a vacation to Jamaica. And I went when we were going through the airport, we saw a Team Jamaica ice hockey like t-shirt. And I was like, what is that? Like, what does that even mean? Like, I know you guys don't, I know Jamaica doesn't have a rink. Like, what does that even mean? And after like doing a bunch of research, it was like, it was always my dream to play on that team. And I had that opportunity at about 17 years old to play on that team, and it's been such a great experience, like playing on a national team, and obviously it's not like it means so much to me. It's not Canada, it's not US, but like playing with my flag that my parents are from and where there's so many great players come out of it meant so much to me uh during that time.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah, look, I always tell my players, as you know, I'm a uh I've coached both our men's national and our women's national team, is you're representing a nation, a group of people. And I always say that identity comes real easy on these teams. You know, you're what it literally, what's on the front of the jersey is more important than the name on the back. Uh I think anytime you get to represent a nation, uh, a people, a culture, um, it's important. And I also think that, you know, especially with with Jamaica and Puerto Rico, that the those kind of Caribbean nations, even into South America, um, are arriving on the hockey world stage. Like, hockey is not limited to North America uh and Russia, Europe, right? Like it's a global sport. And I'll tell you again, when when PR plays Jamaica, it is heated. But what's the coolest thing about it is, and and I've seen these players try and really go at each other, but we shake hands at the end of each game and and we get together at the end of each game, and it's it's it's you know, a proper rivalry, right? Uh and I just think that's one of the coolest things in the world. And uh, yeah, I never take for granted when we get to represent. I really don't. I think it's it is an honor. Um, and I I think I do put it on the same level as USA Canada in terms of what we're representing, right? Um, so I I love that you're involved with that. All right, we're done with the interlude. Let's go back. It was a good little segment there. Um, I do want to ask you too about youth hockey, right? You've gone through youth hockey, you've gotten there, now you're dealing with a lot of you know players, right? We talked about the cost. What are some other things maybe you think you'd like to see change in youth hockey? Or or we can say the hockey market as well, because we are pricing people out of the game. It's pretty scary. And I I I do want worry that's a bubble that's gonna pop one day, right? But what are some of the other things you want to see change in youth hockey?

SPEAKER_03 36:26

Yeah, you know what? Youth hockey is it's it's a pretty it's crazier than any other thing in the world, I would say. Like there's there's so many things keeping kids out of the game when it comes to just politics in general. And the biggest aspect, like I want to see change in hockey, is like there's so many different fees, like the equipment fees, the league fees. Um, but like the biggest fee I've noticed, which is the hardest fee to change, is gonna be the ice prices that we've talked about a little bit before, where it's like hockey is one of the hardest sports to train. It's gonna cost $300 an hour for an for any sort of ice. Like that's what's holding back the game at the biggest levels from like why we're not seeing so many kids come out of, I guess, poverty in a sense, to becoming like the LeBron James out of hockey. Like, we don't see that as often because there's so many different barriers within the game. And that's that's kind of the biggest thing I want to see. And there's just there's so many politics within hockey where I think even when it comes to that triple A level, like we really just want to see the best players, not the people that can pay the most. Right. Like, that's what it should be. Like the people that are willing to go work so hard to get to that level shouldn't be held back by just the politics or the price of the how much their family has ultimately.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah, and we're seeing interesting shifts right now in the game. Again, we're recording this in May of 2026, where some private equity firms have been called out recently about driving up the price of hockey. Uh, so I do think change is on the horizon. But the truth is this, and this is this is one of those leaps that's hard for the business side of hockey, is that obviously the more people playing hockey, the better business will be. And that's for rinks, that's for equipment companies, yours, mine, uh, the the NHL, anything, right? But uh it's scary to take that leap because that means you're gonna have to be giving ice time away at a lower cost, or it means you're gonna have to invite kids on the ice and lower costs, and that scares people just as much as it invigorates them. Uh, but I I it is my sincerest hope that we continue to grow that three-on-three hockey, the smaller rinks, is starting to make a real international impact. Um, the game is growing in different ways, and I also think that um you know, I know I know you're coming from Canada, but USA winning the gold medals in the Olympics has an impact on hockey signups across the country. It's all of our responsibility to make this game as accessible as it possibly can be. And I think there are some companies that are failing at that, and I think there are some companies that are succeeding at that, and I think Swift hockey is one of them, succeeding massively, my friend. That's one of the reasons we wanted to have you on today as well, is to celebrate the companies doing that because you should be getting the airtime. All right. We have not had on, we'll just say, the big companies for a reason. They do not sponsor us for a reason because we want the game to become more accessible. So I love what you're doing, man. I love what you've built. I love your story, right? And I think that, like you said, that recipe, that ecosystem, that environment that you're creating is why Swift is so successful. And for those of you listening, if you have not for some reason heard of Swift hockey, look it up. They are very successful, right? This is like the brand you should probably know about if you don't, right? Quality gear, quality people trying to grow the game. If we're not supporting that as hockey families, we're not supporting the game. All right. And it doesn't take much to convince your kid that that the sticks that Zek make are just as good or the best in the world compared to some of the other sticks. So uh Zek, I'm gonna close it out in a minute, but I did want to ask you just if you have any final messages for the hockey families listening in general about the game, where it's going, and and where you'd like to see families take this in the future.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Yeah, I think I think where where the game's going is it's it's hard. Like I really I really think hockey's hockey's in a not a great situation right now. And I think the families and the kids need to kind of come together to make hockey a better place again. And that's that's going to be one of the biggest aspects where hockey's it's still growing a little bit. Like, I'm based out in Florida. If we look at like the last probably seven years worth of Stanley Cup winners, half of them are in Florida. Yeah. So that's winners and losers, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Like winners and losers, yeah. Can't forget.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Like we have been like hockey's growing in areas, but parents and families need to continue to have that mission, want to grow the game in the best way possible. And I think that's going to be the most important aspect, is where there has to be a will from not just not just us, it's everyone needs to want to see the game grow and try and innovate on the game in the best way possible.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Yeah, and I'll I'll say this too, man, that when we started this show six years ago, we talk about the need for things, right? We said there has to be an audience out there that's just not the crazy hockey parent that we're all said to be. And six years later, approaching millions of listens, right? For those of you listening right now, that should prove to you that like we're we are in force. All right. A majority of hockey families want this better experience. The fact you're listening to the show, you're listening to Zek, tells you that we have a power in this space that I think is growing and growing and growing because our audience grows every single year. So we're gonna continue to do that good work. I know Zach is doing that work, but I do want to close by thanking this audience once again. And Zach, you acknowledge them too, right? We're here, we're growing, we're trying to make the game a better place, and you all play a role in that. But Zach, for your work in the space, uh, I can't thank you enough. Again, I I was saying before the show, we're gonna have you on a ride to the rink episode really quick uh for the kids listening. But uh, thanks so much for joining us on the episode today.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

Yeah, no, I was happy to be here. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

All right, gang. That's gonna do it for this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Remember, you can email us, team at our kidsplayhockey.com. Make sure you follow Swift, Swift Hockey. It's not hard to find. Swifthockey.com. Look it up. All right. Uh, and remember, you can also message us using the link accompanying this episode in the description if you want to send us a message. Since we've announced that we've been getting a lot, so we appreciate hearing for you. All right, for Zek, for Mike on Lee. We'll see you on the next episode of Our Kids Play Hockey, everybody. Take care. We hope you enjoyed this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey. Make sure to like and subscribe right now if you found value wherever you're listening, whether it's a podcast network, a social media network, or our website, our kidsplayhockey.com. Also, make sure to check out our children's book, When Hockey Stops, at when hockey stops.com. It's a book that helps children deal with adversity in the game and in life. We're very proud of it. But thanks so much for listening to this edition of Our Kids Play Hockey, and we'll see you on the next episode.